Atheist

[cheesewiz]

They said Philippines is a country of God fearing nation? Why some filipinos marrying foreigners whose Atheist? I don't condemed people being Atheist I just don't understand why filipinos suddenly forgot the foundation of being a Christian. How can a Christian and Atheist live together happily?

Most of my Brits colleagues are very open being Atheist. Well, as they said its not end of the world...yet let see

[aposhark]

They said Philippines is a country of God fearing nation? Why some filipinos marrying foreigners whose Atheist? I don't condemed people being Atheist I just don't understand why filipinos suddenly forgot the foundation of being a Christian. How can a Christian and Atheist live together happily?

Most of my Brits colleagues are very open being Atheist. Well, as they said its not end of the world...yet let see

Hi cheesewiz :)
For me, it is all about respect.
As an atheist, I would never stop anyone from following their beliefs.
Likewise, I would expect them never to try to convince me that there is a God or that religion is important.
Intolerance is unacceptable from anyone.

[subseastu]

Aposhark has hit the nail on the head. My wife is chatholic, I'm atheist and its never been a problem and nor would I expect it to be. The priest when we got married said our kids would have to be christened when they're born. I said yes mainly so he would marry us. But at the end of the day its between my wife and me if we choose to chirsten our kids and so instill a religion on them.

Personally I believe its up to the informed individual to make up their own mind on religion, thats why I'm against chistening at an early age. Anyway I would not expect anyone to try to convert / force me into their beliefs as I would not do the same to them.

Repsect each others values, give and take and be tolerant of each other.

[KeithD]

In the UK we class people who have an imaginary friend as mad.....I can live with a mad woman.....I'm used to madness :Cuckoo:

What the hell religion has to do with love & friendship though is beyond me, if folk let it get in the way, more fool them.

[aromulus]

The priest when we got married said our kids would have to be christened when they're born..

I did have this discussion too, only it ended slightly differently....

On occasion of my first marriage to a welsh Presbyterian, I did ask for the local catholic priest to bless the wedding and the rings, nothing else....
He came out with the same answer... He wanted A solemn promise to bring up any children in the Catholic faith....
I respectfully said that I could not promise anything of the sort as I wanted the kids to have their own choices as to what and who to worship. And that his request was bordering to blackmail... if not outright blackmail....
The priest got quite uppity and started quoting from some book or the other...
So I did tell him to shove it, as his blessings were no longer required...
Not in so many words, though....

[KeithD]

So I did tell him to shove it, as his blessings were no longer required.......
Was that large bang? The sound of the Pearly Gates slamming shut? :D

[Geraldine]

Same situation here, Im a Christian and my husband believes there is a higher being but not God-he makes his own religion :icon_lol:. But it doesnt matter (although it will matter if my Pastor knew about it) so long as we respect each other. We sometimes have a healthy arguement about religion, creation of man etc..its a no win situation...its nice in a way but I wont be able to convince him to change his belief. You dont force a person to change anyway.

But I did say to him that I want our kids to know about God and attend church someday. He is fine with that. We teach our kids good values, to be nice to people...respect others...whats good/bad. My oldest kid even had a dedication in Philippines. I guess when it comes to spiritual learning, its me who will teach our kids.

Some couples are devout Catholics/Christians and yet their relationship arent perfect. Some even commit adultery...

I think Im off topic now :D

[Pepe n Pilar]

We have to respect each other's beliefs. We can't force them, same thing i don't want to be forced on a religion which i am not comfortable with.
I agree with Geraldine. There are some couples that are devout Catholics/Christians and their relationships aren't perfect. But....

I would rather live and believe as if there is God and die
and to know there is none
than
live and believe as if there is no God and die
and to know that there is....
:)

[vbkelly]

Same situation here, Im a Christian and my husband believes there is a higher being but not God-he makes his own religion :icon_lol:. But it doesnt matter (although it will matter if my Pastor knew about it) so long as we respect each other. We sometimes have a healthy arguement about religion, creation of man etc..its a no win situation...its nice in a way but I wont be able to convince him to change his belief. You dont force a person to change anyway.

But I did say to him that I want our kids to know about God and attend church someday. He is fine with that. We teach our kids good values, to be nice to people...respect others...whats good/bad. My oldest kid even had a dedication in Philippines. I guess when it comes to spiritual learning, its me who will teach our kids.

Some couples are devout Catholics/Christians and yet their relationship arent perfect. Some even commit adultery...

I think Im off topic now :D

same here

[PeterB]

As a Christian, I couldn't commit to sharing a life with someone who didn't hold the same beliefs.

I'm not saying that I can't respect another persons beliefs, just that I couldn't share a close relationship.

[KeithD]

Gods come & go every few 1000 years, and the Christian one is fading, and will be replaced in the future.

I vote we make a horse the next God :)

[aromulus]

I vote we make a horse the next God :)

Already been done.... I think....:Erm:

How about a lesser spotted liver bird...???

[Ana_may365]

im a roman chatolic,but my hubby didnt believe in any religions.so since i arrived here in uk im only been twice to chatolic church but even that i didnt forgot to pray every morning and night b4 we go to bed.

[aposhark]

I think the Philippines is almost an opposite to the UK in how many people go to church.
I have only ever met one friend in the UK who went to church, and one family member too, my Dad.
In all my years in England, I never had a conversation about the church, it was always something that was no longer important to British people, by and large.
As we all know in the UK, the influence of the church has continued to wane.

I see so many people go to church in Phils and I understand that it is still powerful there.
(I was amused to see condoms being sold in all the pharmacies there, though.)

If my wife ever wanted to go to church in the Phils or in the U.K., I would never stop her or ever say anything that would hurt her feelings on this issue.

I see so many comments on this forum with "God bless", "pray" or other things relating to religion.
I notice that it is almost always from Filipinas, which is understandable when you see how life is there.

[joebloggs]

They said Philippines is a country of God fearing nation? Why some filipinos marrying foreigners whose Atheist? I don't condemed people being Atheist I just don't understand why filipinos suddenly forgot the foundation of being a Christian. How can a Christian and Atheist live together happily?

Most of my Brits colleagues are very open being Atheist. Well, as they said its not end of the world...yet let see

why not marry a Atheist ?

i take it cheesewiz you have only been conditioned with the catholic religion?

i was forced as a child to go to a church or England school, dragged to Jehovah witness meeting as a kid by my mom, and my dad was catholic. so you see why i'm happy being none, happy without the burden and guilt they put on you.

only thing i'm not happy about is our daughter going to a catholic school and going to confession at 6yrs old :angry:, still i've got time on my hands to free her mind

[Scouse]

If somebody wants to believe in something then let them. When they start to interfere in other peoples lives is when it causes problems.

Organised religion is nothing more than a form of oppression to keep those without power in 'their place'. Don't rock the boat or envy our riches and you will get your reward in the 'afterlife'. It is simply about control. The so called pagan religions are as valid as christianity/islam/buddhism etc. Humanity has always wanted an explanation of how the world was created. No religious theory has any more credibility than any other.

If the church is open to everybody why are they locked most of the time.

The church of England is one of the richest organisations in the country but still puts its hand out for others to pay for repairs to churches and cathedrals.

How many poor priests/vicars do you see?

When people see through them the world will be a better place.

[Scouse]

On a lighter note, have you heard about the dyslexic atheist who doesn't believe in dog

[KeithD]

If the church is open to everybody why are they locked most of the time.

Because scousers nick the shiny stuff :icon_lol:

[cheesewiz]

First of all Im not a Catholic. Im a Protestant. Me personally I don't believe in religion bec religion won't make you a better person or better husband/wife. To filipinos here saying that they don't see any problem their partner doesn't believe in GOD (yes, bec you chose them to be your partner despite of your different belief bec they said filipinos are good in learning to adapt). How about your children one day saying to you Mum I don't believe in GOD bec there no such thing as GOD. hope you can still adapt.

Me who has a strong belief in the existence of GOD I can't imagine myself living with someone who doesn't share the same belief as I am bec I know I will never be happy. I don't want to live my life with guilt conscience sharing my life with different faith as I am.

To all the filipinos here I really adore your stand about it. I hope and pray that GOD will guide you and give you strength to carry on. Pagpalain nawa kayo:ARsurrender:

To all Brits here I hope you don't get me wrong on this topic. I do respect your stand on this issue I know this is a no-win situation. I respect everyone's beliefs:ARsurrender:

Peace everyone.

[joebloggs]

How about your children one day saying to you Mum I don't believe in GOD bec there no such thing as GOD. hope you can still adapt.

Me who has a strong belief in the existence of GOD I can't imagine myself living with someone who doesn't share the same belief as I am bec I know I will never be happy. I don't want to live my life with guilt conscience sharing my life with different faith as I am.



if my kids said that, it would not bother me one bit, i'll let them find their own way.. i don't think you should force your religion on your kids.

me and the misses don't have a problem, because i still have morals that i live by, maybe more so than many church-goers, and having a 'faith' would not make me a better person than i am already.

so i respect your faith, but in my eyes, your no worse or better person than me because of it, i just don't like seeing it forced on kids :NoNo:.

as my misses told me today, 'when you become catholic, your one for life' :xxgrinning--00xx3: or :NoNo:

and peace to you :ARsurrender:

[LEAHnew]

Me who has a strong belief in the existence of GOD I can't imagine myself living with someone who doesn't share the same belief as I am bec I know I will never be happy. I don't want to live my life with guilt conscience sharing my life with different faith as I am.



You'll never know until you get there:rolleyes::D

Peace:ARsurrender:

[aposhark]

Me who has a strong belief in the existence of GOD I can't imagine myself living with someone who doesn't share the same belief as I am bec I know I will never be happy. I don't want to live my life with guilt conscience sharing my life with different faith as I am.

To all the filipinos here I really adore your stand about it. I hope and pray that GOD will guide you and give you strength to carry on. Pagpalain nawa kayo:ARsurrender:

Peace everyone.

Please don't quote "Peace everyone" when you have inflexibility in your attitude to other people.
You appear to be intolerant of other peoples' beliefs.
This is such a lack of respect for others.
This is one of the main reasons that the majority of people in the UK have turned away from religion.

Peace: "freedom from conflict or disagreement among people or groups of people"

In your first post you wrote:
" I don't condemed people being Atheist"
then you wrote:
"I can't imagine myself living with someone who doesn't share the same belief as I am"

Now, how do you equate those two comments?

[PeterB]

In your first post you wrote:
" I don't condemed people being Atheist"
then you wrote:
"I can't imagine myself living with someone who doesn't share the same belief as I am"

Now, how do you equate those two comments?

You're suggesting that by not living with them, Cheezewhiz is condemning the athiests?

As I see it, everyone is free to adopt their own beliefs (or non-beliefs), but I would not choose to marry someone whose beliefs were not similar to my own.

[joebloggs]

You're suggesting that by not living with them, Cheezewhiz is condemning the athiests?

As I see it, everyone is free to adopt their own beliefs (or non-beliefs), but I would not choose to marry someone whose beliefs were not similar to my own.

true :xxgrinning--00xx3:,

but i have problems understanding what other peoples beliefs are :Erm:

beliefs similar to yours, which are ? there is one god ?, because of that you wouldn't marry someone, more to life and a person than that :NoNo:

[aromulus]

Religion, or lack of belief should not be used as an excuse to lead a miserable life.

Some of us choose to believe in something, some others don't.
It is matter of choice really, and letting religion come in between relationships or friendships, will obviously cause a lot of aggro.

If we respect each other's views, and refrain from trying to convert our partners, life will be much easier for everyone concerned.

It is of very little value to state not to marry someone just because he/she has different beliefs from your own.
It is love for the person that counts.

Does this make any sense to anyone...????:Erm:

[joebloggs]

it does dom :xxgrinning--00xx3:

i didn't and still don't have a problem marrying a catholic, to me that's just a small part of the misses, even thou it might be a major thing to her.

just as being a veggie is a major part of my life, but means nothing to the misses :icon_lol: :doh

give and take, it's what life is all about :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

Religion, or lack of belief should not be used as an excuse to lead a miserable life.

Some of us choose to believe in something, some others don't.
It is matter of choice really, and letting religion come in between relationships or friendships, will obviously cause a lot of aggro.

If we respect each other's views, and refrain from trying to convert our partners, life will be much easier for everyone concerned.

It is of very little value to state not to marry someone just because he/she has different beliefs from your own.
It is love for the person that counts.

Does this make any sense to anyone...????:Erm:

We think the same, Dom.
I love my wife for who she is.
If she was a Muslim, Jew, Christian, Agnostic or Atheist I would still love her.
Love is everything and religion (for me) is nothing.

[KeithD]

Why so much concentration by the church on the Afterlife? What about the Beforelife as they are exactly the same place! Remember how good that was? Nope. Didn't think so, but that is where you go back to.

Did you know that on average only about 5% of fertilized human eggs make it to become a teengaer.....that abortion rate by God beats anything any doctor could manage. :rolleyes:

Most folk who argue the existence of a mytical figure have no idea about the proof that matters, radioactive isotopes, neutrino's, quarks, siRNA, proteins, gamma rays, speed of light, etc. Not one religeous figure has explained why they need to exist if we have a God. :cwm3:

....and where did God come from...you can't answer that unless you prove infinity exists.....and if he/she/it does exist....who does he/she/it worship? Most religous folk ignore so many questions they can't answer, rather than educating themselves.

You can have faith & belief, with out calling it a God.

[joebloggs]

:xxgrinning--00xx3: i agree with you scouser Keith.

the song 'god only knows' by Manc band James, says it all.. (even the mother in law liked it :yikes: :D)

http://www.lyricstime.com/james-god-only-knows-lyrics.html

[KeithD]

:xxgrinning--00xx3: i agree with you scouser Keith.
Noooooooooooooooooooo :yikes: ........and before the BIG game! :cwm24:

[aromulus]

Noooooooooooooooooooo ........and before the BIG game! :cwm24:

A nice "no score" draw would be extremely welcome......:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Now.... If only there was a God up there......:yikes:

[walesrob]

Funny how people call on God in times of need, but will otherwise dismiss him as a figment of someone's imagination.

[KeithD]

Funny how people call on God in times of need, but will otherwise dismiss him as a figment of someone's imagination.
I don't.....I just blame you :icon_lol:

The referring to God in those times is due to conditional brainwashing when we are children and do not fully understand the reasoning.

[aromulus]

The referring to God in those times is due to conditional brainwashing when we are children and do not fully understand the reasoning.

Correctamundo...........:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[vbkelly]

I think the Philippines is almost an opposite to the UK in how many people go to church.
I have only ever met one friend in the UK who went to church, and one family member too, my Dad.
In all my years in England, I never had a conversation about the church, it was always something that was no longer important to British people, by and large.
As we all know in the UK, the influence of the church has continued to wane.

I see so many people go to church in Phils and I understand that it is still powerful there.
(I was amused to see condoms being sold in all the pharmacies there, though.)

If my wife ever wanted to go to church in the Phils or in the U.K., I would never stop her or ever say anything that would hurt her feelings on this issue.

I see so many comments on this forum with "God bless", "pray" or other things relating to religion.
I notice that it is almost always from Filipinas, which is understandable when you see how life is there.

oh my father in law i called him hypocrite go to church every sunday after church pub pissing himself and all magic words come up to his mouth

[aromulus]

oh my father in law i called him hypocrite go to church every sunday after church pub pissing himself and all magic words come up to his mouth


Please, do not confuse religion with british cultural customs.....:D

[Mrs.JMajor]

I cant believe this to myself,when i start reading forum i saw many brit guys commenting about god or religion,till this thread come out,might some Filipina wont agree w/ me,or might quote me,but please we have our own opinion and its our right to say what we feel
My parents and olds teach us to believe in God,that was very true,so all of my siblings are become loyal to God even my older sis become active on faith Christian church...but would u believe i never even visit church for ages,and so my youngest sister also active in christian church,
Also wondering why if we need something or like applying for visa we always said "we pray for you""god bless you"keep praying"and if we get the visa we just said "god is so good" think about it ...true!!1 god has nothing to do w/ it,it was the eco who made it,also of failed or succeed,who do u think do it?God? Im getting far..

So think about it,Isn't it the Old people and our parents said it to us(filipina) about God,my belief is just don't cheat people,don't make bad things or against the law ,then u will have happy life,just my own opinion:)

[tomm]

Funny how people call on God in times of need, but will otherwise dismiss him as a figment of someone's imagination.

Very true... amazing how many 'non believers' beg for God's help when they're staring death in the face. :rolleyes:

[KeithD]

Very true... amazing how many 'non believers' beg for God's help when they're staring death in the face. :rolleyes:
:Erm: I've already explained the psychology on that one.

They know full well it is a completely meaningless comment...besides.....which God are they talking to anyway? Everyone see's God in a different way so that makes at least 6.5 Billion Gods :doh

[joebloggs]

Also wondering why if we need something or like applying for visa we always said "we pray for you""god bless you"keep praying"and if we get the visa we just said "god is so good" think about it ...true!!1 god has nothing to do w/ it,it was the eco who made it,also of failed or succeed,who do u think do it?God? Im getting far..

your right, not only do we see it on here, but i've seen many muslims saying i'll pray you get your visa, and pray for me. but if that helps some people then good for them, but good evidence will get you your visa.


also i was watching a tv program the other night about 9/11 faker, a woman who came up with an amazing story how she survived it, but it was all a lie. but the program did interview, one of the only 19 people who survived, who was above where one of the planes hit the tower, and who got out b4 the tower collapsed.

he said people kept saying to him, that god must have been looking after him, but after a while he got a bit angry, because he said some of those who died were better people than him, and why would god look after him, he said it was just random, that's why he survived.

[KeithD]

At least God saved the concrete mosques and churches in the Tsunami :rolleyes:

[Scouse]

At least God saved the concrete mosques and churches in the Tsunami

Probably because they were the only buildings built to withstand it.

[KeithD]

Probably because they were the only buildings built to withstand it.
:yikes: Heretic :D

[flomike]

like me who believe in God I must admit I feel offended to people here the way they make fun out of God's name. Please be a little sensible to other members here like me as it is a delicate issue who have faith in God. I know everyone's are entitled to their own opinion and I respect you all for that.

I suggest that just lock this thread. I hope you understand my views regarding to this issue. Thank you ver much.

[aposhark]

Flo,
This is Great Britain, it is where you have chosen to live.
We have freedom of speech and most people that have posted on this subject have been VERY sensible with their comments.
If this thread offends you, don't read it.
When people in UK streets shout about religion in very loud voices (manic street preachers) other people have the right to ignore them if they want.

[Mrs.JMajor]

Flo,
This is Great Britain, it is where you have chosen to live.
We have freedom of speech and most people that have posted on this subject have been VERY sensible with their comments.
If this thread offends you, don't read it.
When people in UK streets shout about religion in very loud voices (manic street preachers) other people have the right to ignore them if they want.

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[flomike]

Flo,

If this thread offends you, don't read it.
.

I know my comment won't be popular here beside you are right this is Great Britain. I don't have a problem with people voicing out their opinion bec everyone has a freedom of speech I agree with that . Lastly, I do like reading individuals opinion bec it helps you learn or to understand more. But opinion and making fun out of something is totally diffrent thing that's all my point.

I guess I will do your advice. This is the last comment I will make on this issue and I am not going to read it anymore. Thank you.

[aposhark]

[QUOTE=flomike;87830] I didn't think anyone was making "fun".
I thought the replies were deadly serious.

Religion is deadly serious; that is why people kill each other all the time now, in the past and in the future.

[joebloggs]

I know my comment won't be popular here beside you are right this is Great Britain. I don't have a problem with people voicing out their opinion bec everyone has a freedom of speech I agree with that . Lastly, I do like reading individuals opinion bec it helps you learn or to understand more. But opinion and making fun out of something is totally diffrent thing that's all my point.

I guess I will do your advice. This is the last comment I will make on this issue and I am not going to read it anymore. Thank you.

as said already, your in GB and your entitled to your opinion :xxgrinning--00xx3:, and i don't think anyone intends to offend anyone :ARsurrender:, British humour sometimes can offend some people :NoNo:

my problem is what religion does to children, the guilt and the burden put on a 6yr old, who has been asked to told to go to confession.:NoNo: .. kids let them grow up... :ARsurrender:

[walesrob]

Religion is deadly serious; that is why people kill each other all the time now, in the past and in the future.

You see, thats where people get confused, its people who kill people, not churches.

I've said this before, if you "believe", thats great, if you choose not to believe, fine, but I wish the non-believers would stop talking rubbish and just put up or shut up.

[KeithD]

.... its people who kill people, not churches..
Unless you are in one during a major earthquake, which has happened on numerous occassions.....says it all really! :rolleyes:

[walesrob]

Unless you are in one during a major earthquake, which has happened on numerous occassions.....says it all really! :rolleyes:

So you think its God who created earthquakes? Come on, you cant have it both ways, your persistent blaming of ALL the worlds problems on God and/or religion is not very convincing, it just comes across as God-bashing at every opportunity, and its boring.:NoNo:

[walesrob]

as said already, your in GB and your entitled to your opinion :xxgrinning--00xx3:, and i don't think anyone intends to offend anyone :ARsurrender:, British humour sometimes can offend some people :NoNo:


Funny how we wouldn't dare have a thread about any other religion, but its OK to bash Christianity. :rolleyes:

[aromulus]

Funny how we wouldn't dare have a thread about any other religion, but its OK to bash Christianity. :rolleyes:

Maybe because we like to have an open mind......

I am afraid that freedom of speech will not apply if one intends to bash/criticize other races, religions, sexual tendencies or preferences....:NoNo:

Having to be politically correct, means that you have to keep your gob shut at all times or be careful who you speak to and what about....:NoNo:

It was kind of refreshing to see that while I was in Italy, on vacation, most people, even coppers, were quite happy to say things which over here would have caused one to be executed at dawn....:rolleyes:

[Scouse]

Funny how we wouldn't dare have a thread about any other religion, but its OK to bash Christianity.

It's not just Christianity, I feel the same about all religions.

[KeithD]

So you think its God who created earthquakes?

:Erm: Who mentioned that? I never!! I made the CLEAR point that people die in church during earthqauke, and yet it is supposed to be a 'safe haven'. Earthquake causes are proven by science.



Funny how we wouldn't dare have a thread about any other religion, but its OK to bash Christianity. :rolleyes:

:Erm: I've only been talking about a mythical entity/friend some folk call God, never related it to any name religeon.

Keep up or you'll be on detention! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

I know my comment won't be popular here beside you are right this is Great Britain. I don't have a problem with people voicing out their opinion bec everyone has a freedom of speech I agree with that . Lastly, I do like reading individuals opinion bec it helps you learn or to understand more. But opinion and making fun out of something is totally diffrent thing that's all my point.

I guess I will do your advice. This is the last comment I will make on this issue and I am not going to read it anymore. Thank you.

respect to you, your the only one who has decided to say anything about us Atheist, well rob has joined you now :D, i'm not against anything, as long as it doesn't effect me, or they don't knock on my door, religion can be a good thing for some people, and also a bad thing .. for me, its not been a good thing.. 3 religions were in my life when i was young, 2 forced on me, my opinion, and i'm entitled to it, as you are entitled to yours

rob i'm against all religions, if your born in the north of the phils your likely to be 'forced' into being a catholic, if born in the south your likely to be 'forced' into being a muslim.. what choice does a baby or child have, but the one forced on them by their culture and parents.

[walesrob]

if your born in the north of the phils your likely to be 'forced' into being a catholic, if born in the south your likely to be 'forced' into being a muslim..

...and if your born in Wales, you'll be forever ridiculed :rolleyes:

[KeithD]

Faith and religion are two different things. People have faith in different things, religions like Christianity, Muslim, etc, are just 'clubs' folk join who believe others have the same faith, but they don't, only similar. :)

[PeterB]

...if born in the south your likely to be 'forced' into being a muslim..

Really? I wonder where all those people come from who fill the new Cathedral here in Tagum, six services every Sunday. I estimate that it seats about 1500, and there are often lots of people left to stand.

Our local church is full for two services, seating about 800. ... and there are many more churches in, and around, the town.

[KeithD]

Really? I wonder where all those people come from who fill the new Cathedral here in Tagum, six services every Sunday. I estimate that it seats about 1500, and there are often lots of people left to stand.

Our local church is full for two services, seating about 800. ... and there are many more churches in, and around, the town.
He was being generic, not specific. :)

[PeterB]

The point that I was making is that the Muslim population is in the minority - about 5% of the total population of the Philippines. That means that, even in Mindanao, Muslims are in the minority.

[aposhark]

You see, thats where people get confused, its people who kill people, not churches.

I've said this before, if you "believe", thats great, if you choose not to believe, fine, but I wish the non-believers would stop talking rubbish and just put up or shut up.

I disagree completely, and I am NOT confused.
People have killed each other in the name of religion all the time, and they still do.
I will not put up or shut up, because it is the people who believe in religion that knock on my door and try to convince me, and it is the church that sends these people out. Bah!
It is manic street preachers that feel they have a right to shout about religion and "God" at the tops of their voices in most towns.
Why don't they stay at home and "shut up".
Religion is dying fast in the UK, and that pleases me no end.
Most people do not believe any of that nonsense any more :)

[Geraldine]

This topic is never gonna end :) always a popular subject to debate on.

Its so easy to say I believe in this..in that...easy to go to church or attend bible studies...but what matters most is what is really in your heart. Its how you live your life and how you affect the people around you.

[Alan]

Ladies, Gentlemen, Good Friends and Python Fans,

I have read this thread with great interest and some dismay.

In England we say - when you are in a pub, never talk about Politics or Religion (Why have I capitalised those words?? I don't know - another Tanduay please.)

For sure, talking about these two subjects will surely lead to arguments and bad feelings.

Of course, this is a free forum and everybody is allowed their own opinion. However, I, for one, will stay away from this discussion because of the potential harm it could do to our GREAT family relationships here. I really hope that you all understand my point of view on this.

I make this post in the hope that I shall not be admonished.

May we all learn to accept and respect our differences.

Also, may we all pray that Oldham win the Division One Championship this season. :D:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Al.:)

[joebloggs]

what's left to talk about then AL, the weather :doh worse football :NoNo:

:D

[Scouse]

If we don't talk about these things, nothing will ever change.

The people who say we shouldn't talk about politics or religion are thiose that don't know enough to discus them or know that your arguments are stronger than theirs.

[aposhark]

If we don't talk about these things, nothing will ever change.

The people who say we shouldn't talk about politics or religion are thiose that don't know enough to discus them or know that your arguments are stronger than theirs.

I would like religion to be off this forum, and for us to discuss far more worthwhile, less divisive, subjects.

[KeithD]

I would like religion to be off this forum, and for us to discuss far more worthwhile, less divisive, subjects.

Lesbians :Hellooo:

[aromulus]

Ladies, Gentlemen, Good Friends and Python Fans,

I have read this thread with great interest and some dismay.

In England we say - when you are in a pub, never talk about Politics or Religion (Why have I capitalised those words?? I don't know - another Tanduay please.)

For sure, talking about these two subjects will surely lead to arguments and bad feelings.

Of course, this is a free forum and everybody is allowed their own opinion. However, I, for one, will stay away from this discussion because of the potential harm it could do to our GREAT family relationships here. I really hope that you all understand my point of view on this.

I make this post in the hope that I shall not be admonished.

May we all learn to accept and respect our differences.

Also, may we all pray that Oldham win the Division One Championship this season. :D:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Al.:)

Crickey................!!!!:omg:

Look here what the cat has dragged in....!!!!:Erm:

Hiyah, mate, glad to see you are still out and about..:D

Hope all is getting rosier now for you twos.....:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[fred]

Love the starters of these religious threads.
They always seems to disappear just about the time when members begin to rip each others throats out.
Must disagree with Alans Pub comment though..
At least down the pub you can knock them clean out before the poison takes its desired effect.
Thats what I call gratification.

[aposhark]

Lesbians :Hellooo:

:icon_lol::icon_lol:

[Alan]

Crickey................!!!!:omg:

Look here what the cat has dragged in....!!!!:Erm:

Hiyah, mate, glad to see you are still out and about..:D

Hope all is getting rosier now for you twos.....:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Hi Dom,

Thanks mate - and it's thanks to Keithangel that I am still 'afloat' albeit just about. No more 'fridge full of beer' - just - I can afford one when I want one. What more can one ask of life? :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Al.:)

P.S. Oooooops! Forgot the most important - (Smacked bottie (please!!:)) ) - Hanna is still the lovliest girl in the world and I am the luckiest man 'cos she has chosen me.

[Piamed]

My view is that to the commited individual practising their Christian faith, it defines what they do and who they are. An athiest by definition, is someone that believes God does not exist and thus has different elements that define them. On that basis it would appear that living together harmoniously would be a challenge.

However, couples do living happily together when one is an athiest and the other is not. How they do this is unique to each couple. In the cases I've seen, the wife invariably has to compromise the practising of her faith far more than the husband has to compromise on his athiest philosophies. This makes life less contentious for them.

Respect for something is demonstrated by assigning some value to it. That might present as a paradox to some athiests and vice versa.

I also think discussing politics and religion is not a problem so long as it is done truly respectfully and in love. I have devout muslims as friends, jews, athiests, buddhists, etc. We all get on as we do not use condescending land demeaning language when referring to the others faith and belief. Additionally, we appreciate and love the differences that exist in the world and love to know more about what we don't know. Surely, if we can all take that approach with what we dont know, we wont remain so ignorant and many of the major world issues would not exist.

Just my thoughts! :)

As an aside, God said we should love each other. I'm trying real hard but....er...as a Gooner....Chelsea? Hmmn! Only kidding. :D

[KeithD]

Faith does not need religion, but religion needs faith :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

My view is that to the commited individual practising their Christian faith, it defines what they do and who they are. An athiest by definition, is someone that believes God does not exist and thus has different elements that define them. On that basis it would appear that living together harmoniously would be a challenge.

However, couples do living happily together when one is an athiest and the other is not. How they do this is unique to each couple. In the cases I've seen the wife invariably has to compromise the practising of her faith far more than the husband has to compromise on his athiest philosophies.

Respect something is demonstrated by assigning some value to it. That might present as a paradox to some athiests.

Just my thoughts!

about as challenging as a fish eater living with a vegan :doh ... no challenge at all :xxgrinning--00xx3:, near 6yrs wed, yes its 6, i thought it was 7, but it just seems it :doh

the misses can goto church all she wants, I'll not stop her if that's what she wants, but I've been with her a couple of times, and that was twice too many :NoNo:.

maybe I've seen too many good people suffer to believe in god, some of the most decent people I've meet were atheists, my stepfather for one.

you don't need to be a Christian to have morals or standards. maybe 2 things lacking in some Christians:NoNo:

[KeithD]

....maybe 2 things lacking in some Christians:NoNo:
...or any other religion/sect/cult :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

...or any other religion/sect/cult :xxgrinning--00xx3:

:doh your right scouser keith, sorry don't want to pick on Christians only.

[IainBusby]

Ladies, Gentlemen, Good Friends and Python Fans,

I have read this thread with great interest and some dismay.

In England we say - when you are in a pub, never talk about Politics or Religion (Why have I capitalised those words?? I don't know - another Tanduay please.)

For sure, talking about these two subjects will surely lead to arguments and bad feelings.

Of course, this is a free forum and everybody is allowed their own opinion. However, I, for one, will stay away from this discussion because of the potential harm it could do to our GREAT family relationships here. I really hope that you all understand my point of view on this.

I make this post in the hope that I shall not be admonished.

May we all learn to accept and respect our differences.

Also, may we all pray that Oldham win the Division One Championship this season. :D:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Al.:)

Hear Hear, apart from the last sentence of course. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Iain.

[Alan]

Hear Hear, apart from the last sentence of course. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Iain.

Hmmmmm! I WAS admonished. :bigcry: But at least I have ONE friend. Thank you Iain. :)

Al.:)

[firelady]

i am filipina and i have no religious life. i think its safe to safe i dont belive in the church or in a divine being.

the last time i was in a church to attend was when I was 12 because we were all required to attend the mass as part of out elementary school graduation ceremonies - whihc i must attend because i had to receive that shiny medal that my mom was very proud of.

my take is that religion should be a personal matter, that people should not insist their religion on other people - honestly i think this is very impolite and irritating

nor judge them because they have one or have not one.

frankly i think the world would be happier without religion or religious zealots. religion is credited for having spilled so much blodd in the name of the Almighty One.

[amyburple]

They said Philippines is a country of God fearing nation? Why some filipinos marrying foreigners whose Atheist? I don't condemed people being Atheist I just don't understand why filipinos suddenly forgot the foundation of being a Christian. How can a Christian and Atheist live together happily?

Most of my Brits colleagues are very open being Atheist. Well, as they said its not end of the world...yet let see

Ummm I'm dating an Atheist before which is don't know that he is. It didn't work out..I'm born again christian and he is atheist can't stand on that. I will not compromise my self dating or living with someone that our beliefs are contradicting... I will will not work at all...

Good thing my husband to be is born christian since then... So we ENTRUST our plans for the FUTURE and our RELATIONSHIP to GOD... :):):)

[aposhark]

i am filipina and i have no religious life. i think its safe to safe i dont belive in the church or in a divine being.

the last time i was in a church to attend was when I was 12 because we were all required to attend the mass as part of out elementary school graduation ceremonies - whihc i must attend because i had to receive that shiny medal that my mom was very proud of.

my take is that religion should be a personal matter, that people should not insist their religion on other people - honestly i think this is very impolite and irritating

nor judge them because they have one or have not one.

frankly i think the world would be happier without religion or religious zealots. religion is credited for having spilled so much blodd in the name of the Almighty One.

Well said firelady :xxgrinning--00xx3:
Trouble is, if it is a personal matter, why do so many people get on buses in the Philippines and read out the bible.
THEN ask for MONEY :cwm23:
I wish they'd leave people alone.

If people in the UK got on buses and tried to preach ANY religion, they would be shouted down and put off the bus in no uncertain terms.
British people would not put up with that nonsense.

[KeithD]

If people say a relationship failed on religion they are either useless at relationships, or it was likely other reasons, but blaming religion is the easy option. I have never personally known any couple have problems because of differing religious beliefs.

[vbkelly]

Well said firelady :xxgrinning--00xx3:
Trouble is, if it is a personal matter, why do so many people get on buses in the Philippines and read out the bible.
THEN ask for MONEY :cwm23:
I wish they'd leave people alone.

If people in the UK got on buses and tried to preach ANY religion, they would be shouted down and put off the bus in no uncertain terms.
British people would not put up with that nonsense.

i agree:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[KeithD]

i agree:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:
If we search for Vbkelly's "I agree".....it comes up with half of your posts :icon_lol:

[Geraldine]

If we search for Vbkelly's "I agree".....it comes up with half of your posts :icon_lol:


I agree! :icon_lol:

[aposhark]

I agree! :icon_lol:

I agree! :icon_lol:

[Piamed]

about as challenging as a fish eater living with a vegan :doh ... no challenge at all :xxgrinning--00xx3:, near 6yrs wed, yes its 6, i thought it was 7, but it just seems it :doh

the misses can goto church all she wants, I'll not stop her if that's what she wants, but I've been with her a couple of times, and that was twice too many :NoNo:.

maybe I've seen too many good people suffer to believe in god, some of the most decent people I've meet were atheists, my stepfather for one.

you don't need to be a Christian to have morals or standards. maybe 2 things lacking in some Christians:NoNo:

As usual, I agree with much of what you said Joe. Many of the most decent people I've met are non-believers. Someone calling themselves a Christian does not necessarily mean that they are aspiring to practice their faith in as commited a manner as is possible for them.

Nor does it mean that most of society will consider them exceptionally nice persons. Ones faith is very much a personal thing; only they and God know what they are truly about.

Remember that the term Christian was assigned to those that observers felt behaved in a manner consistent with that of Christ. Unfortunately, the terms use is often subjective.

When we evaluate the behaviour, we should consider whether their behaviour is reminiscent of Christ. If it is not, then are they Christians?


...or any other religion/sect/cult :xxgrinning--00xx3:I agree to an extent. I also think the detailed answer is 'it depends'. Depends on the individuals practices as well as what their beliefs are.


Hmmmmm! I WAS admonished. :bigcry: But at least I have ONE friend. Thank you Iain. :)

Al.:)at least TWO amigo.


i am filipina and i have no religious life. i think its safe to safe i dont belive in the church or in a divine being.

the last time i was in a church to attend was when I was 12 because we were all required to attend the mass as part of out elementary school graduation ceremonies - whihc i must attend because i had to receive that shiny medal that my mom was very proud of.

my take is that religion should be a personal matter, that people should not insist their religion on other people - honestly i think this is very impolite and irritating

nor judge them because they have one or have not one.

frankly i think the world would be happier without religion or religious zealots. religion is credited for having spilled so much blodd in the name of the Almighty One.I hear where you are coming from. In my view, a church is a collective of people with a common belief system. If the believe system is based on love then it can do much good.

The word zeal is often misused, so in order to retain its original sentiment I will use the following synonyms which have not been abused as much: fervour, zest and passion. For the purpose of avoiding ambiguity, I shall also effect a contextual change of the word religion for the word faith.

Thus, passion and faith go hand in hand.

When people refer to religious zealots, I believe they mean people who have at best a complete misunderstanding about a faith and have become obsessive about an issue to the extent that they are willing to cause harm. They associate their 'cause' with a faith and the average Joe Public cannot discern the difference.



Ummm I'm dating an Atheist before which is don't know that he is. It didn't work out..I'm born again christian and he is atheist can't stand on that. I will not compromise my self dating or living with someone that our beliefs are contradicting... I will will not work at all...

Good thing my husband to be is born christian since then... So we ENTRUST our plans for the FUTURE and our RELATIONSHIP to GOD... :):):):xxgrinning--00xx3:


If people in the UK got on buses and tried to preach ANY religion, they would be shouted down and put off the bus in no uncertain terms.
British people would not put up with that nonsense.Hi Aposhark. I'm assuming that you are speaking in some semblance of a metaphor. People are always campaiging for their faith and/or money on the transport systems. I find that travellers are either receptive or at worst, just ignore them. People in the UK are mostly socially tolerant. Often to the extreme.


If people say a relationship failed on religion they are either useless at relationships, or it was likely other reasons, but blaming religion is the easy option. I have never personally known any couple have problems because of differing religious beliefs.I have known a relationship to fail where the couple were initially evenly yoked but then the wife became a Born Again Christian. It changed who she was while the husband remained the same. Unfortunately, each then had substantial expectations of the other. That caused the break up. I guess they grew apart.

[scott&ligaya]

just my observations first.... remember the same posters commentary on WHY the Philipiinnes is poor.... here were my comments at the time

The Pope could reduce poverty, enrich family lives and strenghthen poor countries overnight just by saying three words CONDOMS ARE OK!!!! ..... but then children might get educated and become more self reliant and begin to question some of the other teachings and where would the catholic church and more importantly the wealthy and powerful bishops be then?

My problem is not so much with religion or faith as I was brought up through the Church of Scotland where ny father was a deacon and elder but importantly you join at 18 by taking new communicants classes. there was no pressure even from my father to join.

My wife is JIL and loves going to her church in Palawan, in Hong Kong (packed out 400 at each of three services and what an atmosphere) and has found a filipino christian fellowship here in Bham. I go along and enjoy the services as they are bright, full of feel good factor and not at all like dour Church of Scotland services. I cannot quite get into all of the exhortations some make but all in all it is good to be there and I genuinely can see that the congregation get something from the experience. I prefer to keep my own counsel, and believe that faith is a personal journey and down to the individual. I totally agree with the view that children should not be brainwashed and forced to confession at six... how ridiculous is that!!!!.

You can see when you visit the Phils that the only growth industry is churches, have you seen an iglesia ni christo church!!!? talk about money! they are all there peddling their "brand" and grabbing the poor dumb filipinos money (some up to 30% of their meagre earnings). They sell hope and a better afterlife when they should be helping the poor filipino to improve his/her lot, get educated and self reliant but that would be self defeating for them.

I do get angry when I see jehovas witnesses, 7th day adventists, mormons and others all queuing up to steal the minds of people who for too long have been let down by their leaders.

Sorry if this seems like a rant but it does irratate me to see this going on.

Another poster summed it up well when they said religion needs faith but faith does not religion and also spoke of organised repression. People should take personal responsibility for how they live out their lives. Good morals, deceny and natural justice are not confined to the bible,Koran or other religous teachings.



and

[scott&ligaya]

WOW, just read my own reply, I did not realise how much the subject aggravated me. Time to chill, go home early and play with our baby, he has no view on this matter....

[Piamed]

just my observations first.... remember the same posters commentary on WHY the Philipiinnes is poor.... here were my comments at the time

The Pope could reduce poverty, enrich family lives and strenghthen poor countries overnight just by saying three words CONDOMS ARE OK!!!! ..... but then children might get educated and become more self reliant and begin to question some of the other teachings and where would the catholic church and more importantly the wealthy and powerful bishops be then?

My problem is not so much with religion or faith as I was brought up through the Church of Scotland where ny father was a deacon and elder but importantly you join at 18 by taking new communicants classes. there was no pressure even from my father to join.

My wife is JIL and loves going to her church in Palawan, in Hong Kong (packed out 400 at each of three services and what an atmosphere) and has found a filipino christian fellowship here in Bham. I go along and enjoy the services as they are bright, full of feel good factor and not at all like dour Church of Scotland services. I cannot quite get into all of the exhortations some make but all in all it is good to be there and I genuinely can see that the congregation get something from the experience. I prefer to keep my own counsel, and believe that faith is a personal journey and down to the individual. I totally agree with the view that children should not be brainwashed and forced to confession at six... how ridiculous is that!!!!.

You can see when you visit the Phils that the only growth industry is churches, have you seen an iglesia ni christo church!!!? talk about money! they are all there peddling their "brand" and grabbing the poor dumb filipinos money (some up to 30% of their meagre earnings). They sell hope and a better afterlife when they should be helping the poor filipino to improve his/her lot, get educated and self reliant but that would be self defeating for them.

I do get angry when I see jehovas witnesses, 7th day adventists, mormons and others all queuing up to steal the minds of people who for too long have been let down by their leaders.

Sorry if this seems like a rant but it does irratate me to see this going on.

Another poster summed it up well when they said religion needs faith but faith does not religion and also spoke of organised repression. People should take personal responsibility for how they live out their lives. Good morals, deceny and natural justice are not confined to the bible,Koran or other religous teachings.



and
I think your post uncovers some interesting and insightful points. Namely, as I mentioned in my earlier post, that given a church is a body of people and as such is a sum of the individuals within it. What i mean by that is that all churches are different. Even within the one denomination.

The classic Catholic church is very different to a Pentecostal one for example. I have attended many churches. The one I favour now but can only attend on occasion is in London, whilst I am in Leeds. I love this church as the body of people there have all bought into the concepts of developing progressive families. Thus we focus on strengthening men to be choice men, empowering women and developing children.

Our services are not about repetititious and incomprehendible rituals as some might think. All services are practically based and related to real family issues.

We tackle wife abuse, men showing love to their children and other issues that society is concerned with but few address. We dont talk about others we talk about tyhe church memmbers to make sure that we are the best we can be so that by doing so we can influence others positively by our conduct. We are imperfect but we aspire to progressive improvement.

I have invited some of my non-believing friends to my church and what they found was a group of very intelligent, successful and socially concious individuals who are not afraid to to dicuss and tackle the isssues that matter most. Their attendance was not about trying to indoctrinate and thus, they come whenever they feel like it bevcause they want to.

We sponsor local activities for the locals in neighbourhood (Kilburn). We have a day once a month when we go to the homes of the local elderly and do their shopping, tidy their gardens, etc. We also have a community barbecue once a year when up to 600 hundred attend. The men in the church pay for it our of their own pockets. There are so many other initiatives we undertake each year.

As far as I can determine there is no harm that we generate and consider it inappropriate to class all bodies of faith oriented individuals as being the same. Individuals are at fault and not faith per se.

My final point is that as has been said, faith is a personal thing. This I do not believe in Christening babies as it requires that a baby has a relationship with God which is not possible at that age. A baby dedication is an entirely different thing I believe.

[walesrob]

Thanks Piamed, your post is probably the most informative and balanced in this whole thread.

[aposhark]

Hi Aposhark. I'm assuming that you are speaking in some semblance of a metaphor. People are always campaiging for their faith and/or money on the transport systems. I find that travellers are either receptive or at worst, just ignore them. People in the UK are mostly socially tolerant. Often to the extreme.

Hi Piamed.
My thoughts were not connected to a metaphor.
I just think that people in the UK would not tolerate religious people spouting off and asking for money afterwards.

The whole point for me is respect for people and tolerance for peoples' beliefs or lack of beliefs.
I personally don't go around telling everybody I am an atheist, but I find it so obnoxious that religious bods feel they have to tell everybody about their beliefs. They actually SHOUT in the streets :yikes::yikes:. What a bore and what a liberty, and if anyone asks them why they do this, they shout even louder :omg:
I also do not ask for money from people because I am an atheist.

I realise that people in the Philippines are "god-fearing" and if that is their belief then good luck to them, as long as they go about their business in a quiet dignified manner.

But you see, religion does strange things to people and they feel it their right to try to convert others.

As you know, the "RC" or "C of E" religions are fading away as every week goes by.

People just don't care about them anymore in the way they did in days of old.

I don't know why religious people feel they cannot live with non-believers.
That is bigotry and intolerance.

If we all observe our history we will notice that Europe was subjugated and spent hundreds of years by religious zealots who killed people because they did not want to believe.

That is one of the main reasons that people in Europe fled in their droves to the "New World".

I understand that people, like my father, strongly believes in the church.
That is fine by me, as long as it is not rammed down my throat.

I will continue to ignore the church as many millions now do here in the UK. However, if a poster here or anywhere asks how people can live together with differing beliefs, then the answer is clear for all to see. Don't rock my boat and I will not rock yours.

God does not exist and no amount of brow-beating, shouting or persuasive language will convince me otherwise.

[Piamed]

Thanks Piamed, your post is probably the most informative and balanced in this whole thread.
Thank you so much Rob. I always try my best to temper what I say with love and to offer my thoughts in a constructive way. That you think I am part way to achieving that means a lot to me. :)


Hi Piamed.
I personally don't go around telling everybody I am an atheist, but I find it so obnoxious that religious bods feel they have to tell everybody about their beliefs. They actually SHOUT in the streets :yikes::yikes:. What a bore and what a liberty, and if anyone asks them why they do this, they shout even louder :omg:
I also do not ask for money from people because I am an atheist.

I realise that people in the Philippines are "god-fearing" and if that is their belief then good luck to them, as long as they go about their business in a quiet dignified manner.

But you see, religion does strange things to people and they feel it their right to try to convert others.

As you know, the "RC" or "C of E" religions are fading away as every week goes by.

People just don't care about them anymore in the way they did in days of old.

I don't know why religious people feel they cannot live with non-believers.
That is bigotry and intolerance.

If we all observe our history we will notice that Europe was subjugated and spent hundreds of years by religious zealots who killed people because they did not want to believe.

That is one of the main reasons that people in Europe fled in their droves to the "New World".

I understand that people, like my father, strongly believes in the church.
That is fine by me, as long as it is not rammed down my throat.

I will continue to ignore the church as many millions now do here in the UK. However, if a poster here or anywhere asks how people can live together with differing beliefs, then the answer is clear for all to see. Don't rock my boat and I will not rock yours.

God does not exist and no amount of brow-beating, shouting or persuasive language will convince me otherwise.

I understand how you feel about people approaching you to share their faith. Remember, that those that attempt to share their faith with you are only doing so as they think it a loving act to share something that they personally benefit from with others. When I myelf share my beliefs with an individual, I try to be sensitive to who I am sharing with and tailor what I say accordingly. But then, I have to do that every day in my working life.

If the approach of some is less sensitive, then perhaps it is just that they are passionate in their quest to help others or just clumsy in their interpersonal skills. In either event, a polite statement of disinterest should see them off with neither party the worse for wear.

People do not try to raise money because they are Christians; they attempt to raise money to futher a charitable cause that they believe in, so on that basis I understand that you would of course, have no need to canvass for money in the same way.:)

I'm not a religious person but I do have a faith and have absolutely no problem engaging with non-believers. Just as not all non-believers are the same, the same is also true of believers.

You are right that millions are moving away from the more traditional churches pre-modernist practices and perspectives. However, the post-modern churches are growing at a faster rate than at any other time historically.

I accept that your belief is that God does not exist and respect your view as you have your own personal reasons underpinning it.

[Gavanddal]

I love being an atheist. I live in the real world. I've never been shown one scrap of evidence that there's a "god". I have seen plenty of poor religious folk who believe that it's gods will that they are that way.
My wife was brought up Baptist but has happily married an Atheist and only been to church about once since being in the UK. She certainly lives a better life in my godless world than she did before.
I tolerate religious people, I don't "respect" their beliefs because I think it's bunkum but all the same I don't have the disrespect or hatred that other religions may have for them. I'm against division and nothing is more divisive than religion.
As has already been said, many religions keep poor ignorant people in their place and grew rich from it.
I've just done a job in a church and happily took their money. I heard them admitting that the church of England would be dead within 50 years. That long?

[Scouse]

You don't have to be religious to ask for money for charitable causes. My friends and I raise money for a school in the Philippines, but we provide entertainment for those that give via quiz nights etc.

I have been involved in the past with political groups who don't just ask for money but give time to help others/highlight problems that less fortunate people have.

You don't need religion to have passion and morals. Most of the morals we live by pre-date any of the modern religions, eg not killing others, having one partner etc.

If anyone can prove that their god exists then I will change my life. Until then I will challenge the existence of a so called greater being.

[Piamed]

I've never been shown one scrap of evidence that there's a "god". You will no doubt agree that evidence is comprised of items, observable or otherwise, that can be used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion. How one comprehends evidence is determined by ones epistemological and ontological paradigms.

Many of the worlds brightest positivist observers attest to God existing based on historical truths. Additionally, many millions of people around the globe have evidence by faith which is one of several ontological paradigms. Consequently, there is phenomenal evidence supporting God's existence but some cannot comprehend it because their paradigms are heterogeneous.


My wife was brought up Baptist but has happily married an Atheist and only been to church about once since being in the UK. She certainly lives a better life in my godless world than she did before.
That your wife has now told you she is happier and better off in a godless world leaves me speechless although I'm happy she is happy.


I tolerate religious people, I don't "respect" their beliefs because I think it's bunkum but all the same I don't have the disrespect or hatred that other religions may have for them. I wanted to comment on this but am worried I may not quite understand what you are saying as it seems a tad contradictory to me.


I'm against division and nothing is more divisive than religion. I think that what causes most division and problems in the world is lack of respect and tolerance for human heterogeneity. That you have a different view of my belief is interesting to me and I love to understand how views such as yours were developed, just as I love to understand how others who share my faith developed their views.

Unfortunately, my experience has been that some non-believers can get very rude and frustrated when asked to present their thoughts in a structured manner. I'm sure that is also sometimes true of believers, though they at least, should not be rude. I have had Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses become frustrated when I ask them to provide Scriptural support for some of their beliefs and practices.

Suffice to say that we are human and thus are all imperfect.

As usual these are just my thoughts. :)

[KeithD]

You will no doubt agree that evidence is comprised of items, observable or otherwise

Observable only, otherwise it is not evidence!

No one has any evidence of the existence of a God, ghost, etc, but the evidence of evolution is now so overwhelming, that is why the church now accepts it, no questions asked. It has been proven way beyond any reasonable doubt, and every creationist argument has been blown away.......I still say it was the butler who done it.... in the library though :rolleyes:

[Piamed]

You don't have to be religious to ask for money for charitable causes. My friends and I raise money for a school in the Philippines, but we provide entertainment for those that give via quiz nights etc.

I have been involved in the past with political groups who don't just ask for money but give time to help others/highlight problems that less fortunate people have.

You don't need religion to have passion and morals. Most of the morals we live by pre-date any of the modern religions, eg not killing others, having one partner etc.

If anyone can prove that their god exists then I will change my life. Until then I will challenge the existence of a so called greater being.I di not mean to suggest that religious people have high morals and i ndeed avoided the word religious where possible. good and bad exist whether faith centered or not.


Observable only, otherwise it is not evidence!hmmn! That is so not true but i think you might be kidding. :) Also it depends on what you mean by observable.


No one has any evidence of the existence of a God ... but the evidence of evolution is now so overwhelming, that is why the church now accepts it, no questions asked. It has been proven way beyond any reasonable doubt, and every creationist argument has been blown away.......That is falsifiable. The Church? It would take so long to really lay the foundation for a challenge to these points and i have hogged enough of this thead unless someone wants me to address this privately.

Anyway its been excellent discussing on this thread in a mutually respectful way. :)

[Gavanddal]

You will no doubt agree that evidence is comprised of items, observable or otherwise, that can be used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion. How one comprehends evidence is determined by ones epistemological and ontological paradigms.

I don't have any paradigms, I have an open mind. It's insulting to suggest that evidence is interpreted by one's personal viewpoint. Are you suggesting that only the chosen ones can see the truth and the rest of us only see what we want to see?



That your wife has now told you she is happier and better off in a godless world leaves me speechless although I'm happy she is happy.

I didn't say that she said that. She wants for nothing now and I know she is happy.


I think that what causes most division and problems in the world is lack of respect and tolerance for human heterogeneity. That you have a different view of my belief is interesting to me and I love to understand how views such as yours were developed, just as I love to understand how others who share my faith developed their views. My views are that I make up my own mind based on evidence and don't submit to enforced ideologies

[KeithD]

How can you have evidence that has never been observed? :Erm:

[andypaul]

Good evening and welcome

Had a bizare day involving a bottle of chicken tika sauce westminster city hall, the mi5 building and the house of lords. So will write randomly like my Brain is:Cuckoo:

Richard dawkins programe the other week was good. I think it showed up Organised religion for what it is, a bunch of people looking for power, prvillige or some gain in some way.

Does not mean i dont belive there are greater forces that we dont understand. Science just like religion does not have all the answers. Still a lot of things science cant explain it seems from experience.

I think there is some thing up there most likely a lab technician looking at a test tube. I just hope its shatter proof.

More power to whatever you do or dont belive in but remeber to always keep an open mind:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Rousseau, the French philosopher and champion of liberty was hunted and pursued from one place to another because of his opinions. When Voltaire, another philosopher and writer heard of it, he invited Rousseau to come and live in his house. When Rousseau finally arrived, Voltaire said, "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it".

If you cant marry some one with different beliefs to you then what else would get in the way? Opposites attract in many cases surely?

Peace love and hapiness and thank god/lab technician the MI5 security left my Chicken tikka sauce alone:)

Laters earth beings i have a Curry to eat

[Piamed]

I don't have any paradigms, I have an open mind. It's insulting to suggest that evidence is interpreted by one's personal viewpoint. Are you suggesting that only the chosen ones can see the truth and the rest of us only see what we want to see?



I didn't say that she said that. She wants for nothing now and I know she is happy.

My views are that I make up my own mind based on evidence and don't submit to enforced ideologiesPlease be assured that I dont mean or intend to insult anyone. At the very least anyone who has a set of values, beliefs or a perspective has a paradigm. Afterall, thats what a paradigm is. Paradigms and the willingness to embrace new thoughts are not mutually excusive. Paradigms can change but it is not 'normally' possible to exist without one at any given moment in time, although the paradigms will vary according to the prevailing context. Having an open mind refers to ones ability and preparedness to alter ones paradigm based on a particular context. To have no paradigm at any point in time, one would have to have no experience, no perspectives or feeling about a given topic/context. Is that truly possible? I personally dont think so.

That evidence is interpreted according to ones viewpoint or in other words bias is the reason that clinical trials are blinded, i.e. because of researcher interference. Remember, evidence is often subjective. If a glass is filled to 50% of its capacity, is the glass full or is it empty. Surely, the answer is it depends, based upon how one sees things.

I'm not sure what these chosen ones are that you referred to in your post but suggest as do most of the extant literature on this subject, that all people see things according to their paradigms.

Example: If you had 2 individuals with 'open minds' walk around a corner and 1 received a pleasant experience and the other one not so pleasant, would you expect them to go around the same corner again later on without having an perspective on what would be likely to occur to them?

Ones paradigm determines what we see and how we see it.



How can you have evidence that has never been observed? :Erm:Evidence and knowledge can be acquired/perceived in many ways. Essentially, if one is a positivist, which many scientists are, they will invariably see things based upon direct observation.

Rationalists will derive their evidence based upon concepts.

Constructionists base their view of evidence on social perceptions and interpretations.

Of course these are gross generalisations.

The bottom line is that not all things that we believe to be true are based upon direct use of our senses.

[USA]

Hi cheesewiz :)
For me, it is all about respect.
As an atheist, I would never stop anyone from following their beliefs.
Likewise, I would expect them never to try to convince me that there is a God or that religion is important.
Intolerance is unacceptable from anyone.

How about intolerant people? Dont they have rights also?
I think you are being very intolerant of the empathicly challenged- or as you would so crudely put it "intolerent people"
People have the right to their own points of view. And if they wish to be narrow minded they shouldnt have to bother with you trying to make them feel "less than" or you trying to impose your will upon them by trying to shape the world to fit your idea of what "tolerence" is.
I really think you should maybe be banned from this forum or at least censored for a time until you can learn to be more tolerent.

[joebloggs]

I watched body shock on channel 4 the other night, it was about the girl with 2 faces :cwm24:, little Lali was widely worshipped as the incarnation of a Hindu god/goddess, but when she died, she was shunned by the village priest because she was of the lowest caste :censored: :NoNo:

one of the most disturbing parts of the program was even after death, not even religion would help an 'untouchable'.

R.I.P your better off out of this world :NoNo:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-534929/Indian-baby-born-faces-doing-month-birth.html

[Piamed]

I watched body shock on channel 4 the other night, it was about the girl with 2 faces :cwm24:, little Lali was widely worshipped as the incarnation of a Hindu god/goddess, but when she died, she was shunned by the village priest because she was of the lowest caste :censored: :NoNo:

one of the most disturbing parts of the program was even after death, not even religion would help an 'untouchable'.
]That was appalling indeed. Of course the issues related to that case were derived from superstition, cultural, educational and traditional perspectives as well as a specific religion. Unfortunately, people all over the world are shunned because they are different. It's a terrible thing to occur but it does because that is what individuals do sometimes for their own personal reasons, which are often not related to any religion. Most people with or without a religion would not treat the little girl like that.

I believe that faith and religion are very different things. Also, no two religions are the same just as no two faiths are. Additionally, individuals differ in terms of their understanding and behaviour, even within any given religion and faith.

Just as it is inappropriate to say that all non-belivers are the same, it is impossible to say that of people with a religion, not least of all as there are so many religions, each with distinct and fundamental principles, cultural and often traditions, etc.

Anyway, I've done my bit on this thread - I'm off to the airport! :)

[aromulus]

To lighten up a little bit guys.....:D


"I hear Glenn Hoddle has found God. That must have been one hell of a pass."


(Bob Davies).

[scott&ligaya]

Hi USA, interesting point you make, however just because someone has a right to a viewpoint (see comment by famous French philospher earlier) does not mean that it should be tolerated or accepted by the society it is expressed in, for example holocaust deniers or anti war protesters turning up at US soldiers funerals. Some views/actions SHOULD NOT EVER be tolerated. People who hold socially unacceptable views can be and generally are shunned. The problem with this is that they then congregrate together, form communitys - white supremacists and become more extreme.

off topic I know but just wanted to respond to your point

[KeithD]

The bottom line is that not all things that we believe to be true are based upon direct use of our senses.
:doh :NoNo:

[Piamed]

Hi USA, interesting point you make, however just because someone has a right to a viewpoint (see comment by famous French philospher earlier) does not mean that it should be tolerated or accepted by the society it is expressed in, for example holocaust deniers or anti war protesters turning up at US soldiers funerals. Some views/actions SHOULD NOT EVER be tolerated. People who hold socially unacceptable views can be and generally are shunned. The problem with this is that they then congregrate together, form communitys - white supremacists and become more extreme.

off topic I know but just wanted to respond to your pointExcellent points! :xxgrinning--00xx3:


:doh :NoNo: :icon_lol: Which of your senses have provided you with evidence there is no God?

[aposhark]

How about intolerant people? Dont they have rights also?
I think you are being very intolerant of the empathicly challenged- or as you would so crudely put it "intolerent people"
People have the right to their own points of view. And if they wish to be narrow minded they shouldnt have to bother with you trying to make them feel "less than" or you trying to impose your will upon them by trying to shape the world to fit your idea of what "tolerence" is.
I really think you should maybe be banned from this forum or at least censored for a time until you can learn to be more tolerent.

If you read my posts before, you will know that I made a point of saying that all religious people feel they have the right to impose their beliefs on non-believers. You are right, I have absolutely no time for people who bother other people in the name of religion.
I also made the point, religion in the UK is dying and has been doing so for many years now.
These are facts, and facts that make me happy.
"banned from this forum"?
You have just joined, you have no reputation and few posts and you are already spouting off.
It is not for individuals to ban people here, it is for moderators, who incidentally are moderate people. :xxgrinning--00xx3:
I have been all over the bible belt in Tenessee, having lived in the USA for many years.
What a sorry part of the USA that is - you can't even get a drink in Nashville late at night :NoNo:
Now, that's not living and it's no fun either.:NoNo:
When I lived in the USA, almost every week I had people knocking on my door in the name of religion and wanting donations for this, that and the other.
Now I never knocked on their doors bothering them, but as you would imagine, I sent them packing before they even got through their first sentence. What a liberty - knocking on MY door :furious3:
Meanwhile, I live in a country that sees through all the religious brainwashing that is still prevalent in your country.
We do not pander to religious parties, and as I mentioned before, the churches are emptying due to, amongst other things, scandals that have rocked, and still rock the trust that is supposed to be offered to the flock.
The whole christian religious movement thing is tarnished beyond belief in my opinion and no amount of apologies from the churches in the USA and the UK will ever stop the terrible pain that the MANY young victims have suffered.
The christian church is outdated and corrupt, too much money and land is owned by the church, but once again I will reiterate, the church is emptying.
I wonder why ????????????????
Now I love my wife and we accept each other for our differences and I love children in any country, and I would always protect an innocent child from harm if I could.
Has the church?
You BET it didn't.
Bah :doh

[aromulus]

I really think you should maybe be banned from this forum or at least censored for a time until you can learn to be more tolerent.

:NoNo::NoNo::NoNo:

Judging by this.... your own tolerance level seems inexistent....

We are all expressing our views, in an open and fair forum, nobody, as far as I could follow, is trying to convert anyone to anything.

So... Banning and censoring ain't on the cards.

Editing....might be....:D

[Gavanddal]

Which of your senses have provided you with evidence there is no God?

If I've seen absolutely no evidence of something for 47 years then why would I believe it? I've no evidence that there's no fairies at the bottom of the garden apart from the fact that absolutely no-one has ever seen them.

Belief in god primarily derives from peoples inability to explain their origin or the world around them. It's an easy cop-out to attribute it to a mystical higher being. There's plenty of religious people who deny evolution despite the hard evidence. So it's more believable that someone made everything in 6 days, put two people on the earth who then had two sons whose wives mysteriously appeared from nowhere as there's no explanation of that? Someone started a great con trick with that nonsense.

[Piamed]

If I've seen absolutely no evidence of something for 47 years then why would I believe it? I've no evidence that there's no fairies at the bottom of the garden apart from the fact that absolutely no-one has ever seen them.

Belief in god primarily derives from peoples inability to explain their origin or the world around them. It's an easy cop-out to attribute it to a mystical higher being. There's plenty of religious people who deny evolution despite the hard evidence. So it's more believable that someone made everything in 6 days, put two people on the earth who then had two sons whose wives mysteriously appeared from nowhere as there's no explanation of that? Someone started a great con trick with that nonsense.
I've not seen baby Bush's brain but I know he has one. Some say they have seen fairies btw. :)

Anyway, suffice to say we have both stated our perspectives alongside those of others. I'm happy with that and will now atempt to retire gracefully! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

If I've seen absolutely no evidence of something for 47 years then why would I believe it? I've no evidence that there's no fairies at the bottom of the garden apart from the fact that absolutely no-one has ever seen them.

Belief in god primarily derives from peoples inability to explain their origin or the world around them. It's an easy cop-out to attribute it to a mystical higher being. There's plenty of religious people who deny evolution despite the hard evidence. So it's more believable that someone made everything in 6 days, put two people on the earth who then had two sons whose wives mysteriously appeared from nowhere as there's no explanation of that? Someone started a great con trick with that nonsense.

Excellent Gavanddal :xxgrinning--00xx3::icon_lol:

[andypaul]

How about intolerant people? Dont they have rights also?
I think you are being very intolerant of the empathicly challenged- or as you would so crudely put it "intolerent people"
People have the right to their own points of view. And if they wish to be narrow minded they shouldnt have to bother with you trying to make them feel "less than" or you trying to impose your will upon them by trying to shape the world to fit your idea of what "tolerence" is.
I really think you should maybe be banned from this forum or at least censored for a time until you can learn to be more tolerent.

So let me get this right.

Aposhark supports those who wish to belive what they do as long as they dont wish to harm or bother others.

I would say thats a typical British (hopefully worldwide) belief.

[andypaul]

Hi USA, interesting point you make, however just because someone has a right to a viewpoint (see comment by famous French philospher earlier) does not mean that it should be tolerated or accepted by the society it is expressed in, for example holocaust deniers or anti war protesters turning up at US soldiers funerals. Some views/actions SHOULD NOT EVER be tolerated. People who hold socially unacceptable views can be and generally are shunned. The problem with this is that they then congregrate together, form communitys - white supremacists and become more extreme.

off topic I know but just wanted to respond to your point

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[USA]

:NoNo::NoNo::NoNo:

Judging by this.... your own tolerance level seems inexistent....

We are all expressing our views, in an open and fair forum, nobody, as far as I could follow, is trying to convert anyone to anything.

So... Banning and censoring ain't on the cards.

Editing....might be....:D

Ok, sorry to any that didn`t get it that I was making a joke.
I wouldn`t want to ban or censor anyone anywhere. Just a joke, in my own unusual sense of humor.(and I was so sure that almost all of the Brits at least would understand it was a joke, but guess not)

Humorous or not though I was making a larger point that "tolerence" has become a new mantra in our Western society.
Being that I`m kind of different from most folks I should embrace the idea with zeal, or so one might think. Instead I`m not all that thrilled with it. It`s less of a new liberation and closer to a new inquisition in and of itself. Are you "tolerent" enough to fit in? If not, the new "church" of tolerence will not tolerate you for long.
Most people, it seems to me, that push so hard for "tolerence" will tolerate almost anything-except an opinion that differs from their own.
I`ll try using more smilely faces etc when making a joke in the future.
Actually I`m somewhat suprised I havent been banned or at least reprimanded for something with some of the stuff I say on here.:Cuckoo:
How very tolerent of everyone.
Thanks

[joebloggs]

How very tolerent of everyone.


this country is too tolerant and PC. stories from the last few months..

Dennis the Menace was "toned down" to avoid accusations of "gay-bashing"

"Manning the phones" and "man on the street" deemed to be sexist phrases by council.

Mr T Snickers ad cancelled after human rights group complains of homophobia.

Sniffer dogs to wear Muslim bootees

Police apologise for dog advert after claims it may upset some Muslims http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2229719/Apology-over-%27offensive%27-puppy-police-advert-after-Muslim-complaints.html


etc................................... :doh

:Rasp: :furious3: :Help1:

well at least you can count on scouser Keith telling it straight :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[walesrob]

I will reiterate, the church is emptying.


You have figures to back up that claim? I'll agree Church attendances are down especially amongst the Christian faith, but are you referring to Christians only or the whole lot? If you are indeed lumping all Religions together, that to me stinks of ignorance. Post a link to some official figures.

Funny how the Catholic Church in Aberystwyth is always packed on Saturdays and Sundays. Oh, by the way, I'm not Catholic (or any religion, I'm just trying to bring some balance to this thread, as its a bit one-sided) If some Mormon or JW hassles me, I certainly wont shout them down, but ask them to leave me alone in a civilised manner. Isn't that how us Brits are supposed to behave?

[Scouse]

Not been on line for a couple of days but this really struck me


Many of the worlds brightest positivist observers attest to God existing based on historical truths.

Historical truth? Where is this published/held? Nobody has ever pointed me at it.


Additionally, many millions of people around the globe have evidence by faith.....

Faith is not evidence, it is simply accepting what you are told and not being prepared to question it. In my opinion the word gullibility should replace faith.

As Voltaire said “If there were no God, it would have been necessary to invent him.”

As Mikhail Bakunin said "A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished."

[joebloggs]

rob, like most brits, i treated people, the way i would like to be treated, nice to all, even if i don't like them, manners cost nothing :xxgrinning--00xx3:

it's a bit one side because most who have replied are atheists, i asked a few questions but no one replied :NoNo:

why a 6yr old is asked to go to confession, and what beliefs does peterb or others have, who said that, they would only marry someone who had similar ones ?

[Scouse]

like most brits, i treated people, the way i would like to be treated, nice to all, even if i don't like them, manners cost nothing

Couldn't agree more. There is too much selfishness about.

[KeithD]

Faith is not evidence, it is simply accepting what you are told and not being prepared to question it. In my opinion the word gullibility should replace faith......
See how us scousers work together without knowing it....:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Rob, your local church is full as someone told them it was free wine :rolleyes:

[Gavanddal]

why a 6yr old is asked to go to confession?

To get them in a box with a pervy priest as usual I guess.

[cheesewiz]

Please don't quote "Peace everyone" when you have inflexibility in your attitude to other people.
You appear to be intolerant of other peoples' beliefs.
This is such a lack of respect for others.
This is one of the main reasons that the majority of people in the UK have turned away from religion.

Peace: "freedom from conflict or disagreement among people or groups of people"

In your first post you wrote:
" I don't condemed people being Atheist"
then you wrote:
"I can't imagine myself living with someone who doesn't share the same belief as I am"

Now, how do you equate those two comments?

what's wrong with that statement? I can't see any problem with that? as a Christian who believes with the existence of GOD marrying or living with someone who doesn't share same belief as me won't work and by saying that I am not condeming any atheist. And a few people here trying to say that people who believe in imaginary thing consider as MAD ( do you think that's way of condeming people with faith in GOD?)

Then you have a problem with me saying PEACE EVERYONE. In what way this words are offensive to people in UK and disrespectful?

I am not in any way trying to convert you to christianity bec I respect you as atheist. Peace be with you!

[cheesewiz]

You'll never know until you get there:rolleyes::D

Peace:ARsurrender:


I will never get there:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

You have figures to back up that claim? I'll agree "Churches" are emptying, but are you referring to Christian only or the whole lot? If you are indeed lumping all Religions together, that to me stinks of ignorance. Post a link to some official figures.

Funny how the Catholic Church in Aberystwyth is always packed on Saturdays and Sundays. Oh, by the way, I'm not Catholic (or any religion, I'm just trying to bring some balance to this thread, as its a bit one-sided) If some Mormon or JW hassles me, I certainly wont shout them down, but ask them to leave me alone in a civilised manner. Isn't that how us Brits are supposed to behave?

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_060113attendence.shtml
Google attendances and you will find so many more.
It is bound to be an unbalanced thread because churches are always doing things to attract their disappearing flock.
You know this, we all know this.
Now you say you know attendances are dwindling, yet you want proof :yikes:
If you say you know, why do you want proof? :Cuckoo::Cuckoo::Cuckoo:
You didn't know that churches were christian?
You are a little confused I think.
If you enjoy religious people invading your space, then carry on.
I don't shout them down, I just don't listen and close MY own door.

[walesrob]

because churches are always doing things to attract their disappearing flock.


Like what? Putting on strip shows? :rolleyes:

[aposhark]

Like what? Putting on strip shows? :rolleyes:

I don't know, is that what they have to resort to in your town to get the punters in?

[aposhark]

what's wrong with that statement? I can't see any problem with that? as a Christian who believes with the existence of GOD marrying or living with someone who doesn't share same belief as me won't work and by saying that I am not condeming any atheist. And a few people here trying to say that people who believe in imaginary thing consider as MAD ( do you think that's way of condeming people with faith in GOD?)

Then you have a problem with me saying PEACE EVERYONE. In what way this words are offensive to people in UK and disrespectful?

I am not in any way trying to convert you to christianity bec I respect you as atheist. Peace be with you!

You cannot convert me to christianity, because Christ did not exist.
If he did, prove it.
If God exists, prove it.

[aposhark]

Rob, your local church is full as someone told them it was free wine :rolleyes:

Free Wine AND Strippers in Aberystwyth?
:BouncyHappy::BouncyHappy:

[cheesewiz]

You cannot convert me to christianity, because Christ did not exist.
If he did, prove it.
If God exists, prove it.

you said many many many times christ doesn't exist so for me that's the end of conversation why should I waste my time proving something to you as they said you can't teach an old dog a new trick...live your life the way you want it and I'll do same too. Peace!

[LEAHnew]

Ladies, Gentlemen, Good Friends and Python Fans,

I have read this thread with great interest and some dismay.

In England we say - when you are in a pub, never talk about Politics or Religion (Why have I capitalised those words?? I don't know - another Tanduay please.)

For sure, talking about these two subjects will surely lead to arguments and bad feelings.

Of course, this is a free forum and everybody is allowed their own opinion. However, I, for one, will stay away from this discussion because of the potential harm it could do to our GREAT family relationships here. I really hope that you all understand my point of view on this.

I make this post in the hope that I shall not be admonished.

May we all learn to accept and respect our differences.

Also, may we all pray that Oldham win the Division One Championship this season. :D:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Al.:)

:xxgrinning--00xx3: I agree to you Prof:Hellooo::Hellooo:

[aposhark]

you said many many many times christ doesn't exist so for me that's the end of conversation why should I waste my time proving something to you as they said you can't teach an old dog a new trick...live your life the way you want it and I'll do same too. Peace!

Which brings us neatly to you as you were the originator of this thread:


How can a Christian and Atheist live together happily?

Most of my Brits colleagues are very open being Atheist. Well, as they said its not end of the world...yet let see

Since I have known my wife, we have no problems with her being Christian and me being Atheist :) :BouncyHappy::BouncyHappy::BouncyHappy:
Love is the answer and love has nothing to do with religious or non-religious beliefs. :)
We know to leave those things alone, we discussed this when we first met so there will be no misunderstandings later :xxgrinning--00xx3:
Yes, you are correct - you will have seen also that most Brits on this forum are Atheist.
People in the UK just don't care about going to church as Filipinos do.

I hope there will not be many threads about religion as people are mostly polarised.
There are also many people in life (and on this forum) who sit on the fence.
Some believe in issues and some don't, some lay low.
When I was growing up as a teenager and as an adult, debate never started concerning the church, as nobody goes anymore.
There is often debate in the UK about religion with reference to the Middle East for example.
That is another story......

Now, where is the skype phone, I miss my wife :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[walesrob]

...and on that note, maybe we should lock this thread as its starting to tread water. At the end of the day, we all have different opinions on this subject, but its good that we managed to have a discussion without resorting to extreme language or personal insults.

[KeithD]

...but its good that we managed to have a discussion without resorting to extreme language or personal insults.
I save that kind of things for the Mancs :D .........Remember last Saturday......The POOL WON :Hellooo:

[Scouse]

Remember last Saturday......The POOL WON

It's about time we did

[joebloggs]

celebrate while you can scouser Keith, it will be another 20yrs :D b4 you beat united again :icon_lol:

as for

How can a Christian and Atheist live together happily?

Most of my Brits colleagues are very open being Atheist. Well, as they said its not end of the world...yet let see

lets see, don't hold your breath, known the misses more than 8yrs, married near 6yrs, and not a problem yet :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[andypaul]

Like what? Putting on strip shows? :rolleyes:

I need some walls striping can i ask the local Church to help me:Erm:

[PAT]

This is a never ending issue...every one has a reason so be it. Atheist or not doesn't matter, love conquers all.

[andypaul]

This is a never ending issue...every one has a reason so be it. Atheist or not doesn't matter, love conquers all.

Well put.

I think as long as people are cvill these issues need to be dicussed, sometimes friends tell one anohter things they dont like to hear and they agreee to disagree. But when different groups dont talk and dicuss views, beliefs and why they do things you get igorance.

I was lucky as a young guy growing up i had friends from so many countries with various religous beliefs and view points. When younger i met very few people from different backrounds i lived back in the middle of white surbia. I really didn't know much about others cultures and beliefs.
Like a lot of phills i meet are untill they leave phill.

I used to ask as many questions as i could and with that i understood why people do certain things which seem odd to me. Many peole dont understand ramadan and how followers of islam follow it, now i think its only polite to understand enough if your a manager or workmate in partaking in ramadan. But belive it or not i have met people from various backgrounds who dont understand it at all. With there igorance they somehow manage to offended by continually offer them food :NoNo: saying a bit wont harm.
Just like on here many would be offended if some one tempted them during lent. You dont need to read either the bible or koran or belive in them to understand why people wish to do these things. As long as it does not harm others, who cares?

Many people who dont understand a group of people will either fear them, hate them or at least not know them as they are "different".

Cheesewhiz many partnerships and couples wheter friends, work mates, or husband and wifes seem to thive on the differences just as much as what they hold in common.

Many of the couples on here if you discount religion. Have very little on paper in common.

Race, mother tongue, foods, intrests, outlook on life, education (although the wife and I are both well educated in our respective countries it has formed to very different people imo)

If you swapped say religion for country grown up in then many on here would be going loopy and quite rightly.

I have seen many examples where to very intelligent and loving and caring of all peoples want only to be married to those similar to themselves, which is just as the same as all people who look for people with certain looks and type of charcters etc. Fair do's
But i also know a lot of mates who always loved certain charcters and looks of girls and married a very different type of lady in the end never say never:)
But if you stoped say your children from marrying someone of a different group then i think that would be wrong. If everything about the potential in law was ok and they compliment your child then why not?

Peace love and enjoy the sunshine:xxgrinning--00xx3: But keep asking one another questions and politely debating things because they day we dont, we all will live a far worse world than the one we have at the present.

[kimmi]

...and on that note, maybe we should lock this thread as its starting to tread water. At the end of the day, we all have different opinions on this subject, but its good that we managed to have a discussion without resorting to extreme language or personal insults.

I second the motion..:xxgrinning--00xx3::doh

[Piamed]

You have figures to back up that claim? I'll agree Church attendances are down especially amongst the Christian faith, but are you referring to Christians only or the whole lot? If you are indeed lumping all Religions together, that to me stinks of ignorance. Post a link to some official figures.

Funny how the Catholic Church in Aberystwyth is always packed on Saturdays and Sundays. Oh, by the way, I'm not Catholic (or any religion, I'm just trying to bring some balance to this thread, as its a bit one-sided) If some Mormon or JW hassles me, I certainly wont shout them down, but ask them to leave me alone in a civilised manner. Isn't that how us Brits are supposed to behave?

Very valid points Rob.

I believe that some problems stem from the fact that many observers cannot or are not prepared to, discern between Christianity, the various denominations thereof, faith, religion and also Islam, etc. Thus, most of the discussions that arise end up not being as productive as they might be, as the definitions they are based upon are somewhat corrupted. We should perhaps note that we are all individuals, whether atheist or faith driven. And, being good or bad is not mutually exclusive to being a believer or a non-believer. At the end of the days we all have a conscience. If it is a good one we will behave in such a way that we are driven to help and love others and leave a positive footprint as we pass by.

This thread has been insightful in many ways and I value having participated in it. :)

[Piamed]

celebrate while you can scouser Keith, it will be another 20yrs :D b4 you beat united again :icon_lol:

as for

How can a Christian and Atheist live together happily?

Most of my Brits colleagues are very open being Atheist. Well, as they said its not end of the world...yet let see

lets see, don't hold your breath, known the misses more than 8yrs, married near 6yrs, and not a problem yet :xxgrinning--00xx3:I've not met your wife but based upon your posts you are clearly an intelligent, socially conscious, respectful, caring and supportive husband. It is no surprise to me that you have no problems.

[joebloggs]

I've not met your wife but based upon your posts you are clearly an intelligent, socially conscious, respectful, caring and supportive husband. It is no surprise to me that you have no problems.

me intelligent :icon_lol:, the misses maybe thou :rolleyes:

we had our problems early on, got them out of the way, so what ever happens in the future could never be bad as the past. :D

:rolleyes:

[KeithD]

me intelligent :icon_lol:
Glad you agree you thick uselss :action-smiley-081: ......now go get your toothbrush to clean my bog :D ......I have to give Mancs some self esteem :icon_lol:

[joebloggs]

:NoNo:

smarter than any scouser thou :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Did you hear that they were going to hold The Apprentice in Liverpool until they realised that they wouldn't be able to find 12 people who wanted a job! :D