getting a foreign worker out of Singapore! [Archive]

easygoingman

29th August 2006, 15:55

ginapeterb

29th August 2006, 16:13

Hello all

I don't know if anyone will have experience of this.
I'm planning to marry my fiancee in a couple of months and thought everything was OK.
However her contract runs for another 8 months and she is worried that she will not be allowed out of Singapore without an Exit Pass which needs to be filled in by her employer (who does not want to let her leave)

She is worried she will be stopped at immigration.
I would wait for her but another 8 months of her working 6:00 am til 10:00 pm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:yikes:

any suggestions? I've looked through various sites today and have a headache now..
She will ring the Phils Embassy in Singapore tomorrow for advice and her Agency. The lady at the Agency knew she was leaving a few months back.

Wasn't sure what part of the forum to post this in...
She wants to go home to marry the man of her dreams. How wrong can that be?

regards
Paul

I Dont see that your GF needs an exit stamp, that is utter codswollop, she is entiteld to travel home if she wants, as long as she lets the employer know of her intentions, I cant see Singapore immigration making any fuss about it, unless ther is something that you have ommitted to tell us, that makes it hard for her to leave, of course the story is always half baked, so you need to tell us more about it, if you need help, but tell your Girl to go home, if you are supporting her, I'm sure she will be pole vaulting all the way down to Changi !!

easygoingman

29th August 2006, 16:41

thanks Peter!

I'm not hiding anything at all apart from keeping her name and address private.
She's been told a right story by the Ministry of Labour - they will ban her for life if she manages to leave the country, stop her from travelling from the Phils again to any country etc. Grrrrrr

I wanted her to leave months ago but she wanted to help the family out for a few months more. So much for helping others....:NoNo:

thanks for your cheerful advice!!!

KeithD

29th August 2006, 17:11

....and the correct info....:D

My wife came from Singapore to the UK from a domestic job. Her employer would not let her go, and she'd just started a new 2 year contract when we met so I had to wait. The laws are very strict out there for this type of thing.

The problem is this. The employer pays a bond of a few grand to verify to the Singapore goverment that she is in there care, and they will ensure it stays that way. If she wants to leave she WILL need permission off her employer, otherwise she is in breach of contract, an offence in Singapore, and the airport authorities are likely to ask for the release papers as the bond will be tied into her passport number.

If the employer has her passport this is also illegal, but they seldom complain, as they will still be under contract after grassing the employer up!

If her & the employer agree she can leave it may take a couple of months to sort the paperwork out, and you need to start the embassy paperwork 2-3 weeks prior to the end of contract. The British Embassy in Singapore is easy to deal with, and visa's are no hassle as long as you have all the paperwork.

We've just been through this a couple of months back with another young lady. The employer did not want her to leave, but after a few months, she changed her mind and let her go when she realised her relationship was serious. But you just can't leave. She signed the contract, and is bound legally by what she agreed to.

Besides, I made 7 visits to Singapore during the 2 years wait, and completely enjoyed it. I'd do it all again...in fact we still go back 1-3 times a year.

If she did manage to bunk out of the country, she would be black marked in Singapore, so could never travel there, and her employer will lose the bond, and probably take it out of the next girl she/he employs. The employer can also be fined for 'losing' the employed girl.

8 Months is not that long, go spend Xmas/New Year in

Singapore.....fantastic. You'll be doing the paperwork in March.

If she was in the Philippines, it could still take months there getting just the visa sorted out.

easygoingman

29th August 2006, 17:25

OK Keith :furious3:

not angry at you for being honest but somehow travelling for 13 hours to see her for her one day off every few weeks doesn't make me feel happy.
At Christmas she would be busy working. She's had her 2 weeks holiday for the year and that's it.

I'll tell her if they won't let her leave then she can go on strike instead..

seriously can't she leave to marry?

some humour - I'll post some of my seed to her, when she gets pregnant they can kick her out:icon_lol:

but not only do I want to be with her I don't want to listen to her sadness for x months and tears, loneliness.
we shall see....

KeithD

29th August 2006, 18:27

ginapeterb

29th August 2006, 18:45

Well Keith is obviously the expert in this area, I think my opinion as mainly subjective, as I was shocked at how these ladies cannot get out, without this peice of paper or that paper, i was trying to imagine me having to do that, no one tells me what to do, let alone some Singaporean employer...but lets be honest I am highly unlikely to be in that situation....

easygoingman

29th August 2006, 18:52

My wife's just read this and confirmed it.

She can ask for permission to leave to marry, but would have to return to complete the contract, and as she's had her 2 weeks, probably not. I've been told if she gets black marked by Singapore immigration she won't be able to transit through either.

Are her employers Chinese or Western? If the former, she's probably got no chance of an early release.

My mates just had to wait 12 months for a Singapore contract to finish, and he could only see his girl for two Sunday's while he was there, but they are both alive, and in the Philppines now after an 18 month long distance relationship. They're just starting the visa process now.

Thing is, the contract is part of the package with the girl, you must have known that before getting serious, so you have to deal with it the same as the rest of us have had too in the past.

In 8 months you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

(PS. I'm sure seeing her only twice in 2 weeks though is worth the effort? :) )

Hi
I knew my fiancee was in a contract and I had asked her about that. She has been telling me for 5 months that she will leave early so we can marry and the Agency told her it would be ok.

There's no way I'd spend £800 to see her for one day. I've been to Singapore once and have no intention of helping such a dicatorship with any more of my money.

Hey if they won't let her leave then I'll tell her exactly what to do:
nothing, she goes out every day wherever she likes, sits in her room and watches TV and refuses to work until the sack her. I could pay her 17x what she earns in Singapore...

baboyako

29th August 2006, 19:04

the whole world (outside the UK) works with bribes, fixers & haggling.

'going on strike' is only likely to get her a beating :xxmixed-smiley-017:

I'd suggest you talk to a few people (they will tend to be hanging outside government offices)..

A_flyer

29th August 2006, 19:14

the whole world (outside the UK) works with bribes, fixers & haggling.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I think you have to learn more what the world is...

KeithD

29th August 2006, 19:18

Hi
I knew my fiancee was in a contract and I had asked her about that. She has been telling me for 5 months that she will leave early so we can marry and the Agency told her it would be ok.

There's no way I'd spend £800 to see her for one day. I've been to Singapore once and have no intention of helping such a dicatorship with any more of my money.

Hey if they won't let her leave then I'll tell her exactly what to do:
nothing, she goes out every day wherever she likes, sits in her room and watches TV and refuses to work until the sack her. I could pay her 17x what she earns in Singapore...

Dicatorship :Erm: Singapore is a prime example of how a country should be run.

It's a contract, you sign one in football, you can't get out without the employer agreeing, or you pay the extra, same with any contract, broadband, mobile, etc, this works the same in all civilised society.

You could pay her 17X, but she went to Singapore to earn more money than she would in the Phil, and at that point she was very happy with it and the contract she agreed to.......then she met you...but the basic circumstances are exactly the same, the main problem is your viewpoint of the whole thing, nothing else.

If you think she should be paid 17X more, then that is what you send her, then she's getting the correct wage you want her to have, and she isn't working for peanuts then is she? :NoNo:

Welcome to the real world. Having a Filipino as a lover is not something you can just run into, grab the girl and go off an be happily married, you hit many hurdles along the way......and of you are going to marry in the Phil, boy you'll meet some paperwork, plenty of red tape, tons of problems.....the fun is just starting.

baboyako

29th August 2006, 19:20

4th trip to the fil & I haggled 32 balut for just 300pesos :P

KeithD

29th August 2006, 20:02

:cwm24: Yummy :vomit-smiley-011:

easygoingman

29th August 2006, 20:13

Dicatorship :Erm: Singapore is a prime example of how a country should be run.

It's a contract, you sign one in football, you can't get out without the employer agreeing, or you pay the extra, same with any contract, broadband, mobile, etc, this works the same in all civilised society.

You could pay her 17X, but she went to Singapore to earn more money than she would in the Phil, and at that point she was very happy with it and the contract she agreed to.......then she met you...but the basic circumstances are exactly the same, the main problem is your viewpoint of the whole thing, nothing else.

If you think she should be paid 17X more, then that is what you send her, then she's getting the correct wage you want her to have, and she isn't working for peanuts then is she? :NoNo:

Welcome to the real world. Having a Filipino as a lover is not something you can just run into, grab the girl and go off an be happily married, you hit many hurdles along the way......and of you are going to marry in the Phil, boy you'll meet some paperwork, plenty of red tape, tons of problems.....the fun is just starting.

so why aren't you living in Singapore then? :)
haven't you read articles on the treatment of foreign workers for example?

True there's a contract, which I've never seen, both my financee and her Agency contact assured her/us she could leave before the contract end: what she wants to know is can she be detained at the airport under her contract?

I don't look down on my future wife. For the hours she works alone she deserves so much more. It's a simple statement of fact. She earns more than in the Phils but that doesn't make it fair or just.

It's not up to me to pay her salary, though I have helped her with both plane tickets, funeral expenses and personal needs

Sure there may be problems ahead but this is a completely unexpected shock - I've already booked my flight, the Hotel and her brother is arranging the wedding....

KeithD

29th August 2006, 20:32

so why aren't you living in Singapore then? :)
haven't you read articles on the treatment of foreign workers for example?

So the underpaid kids in this country is OK? Sweatshops are fine? Abuse at work OK? It happens more here than it does there, stats say so, and as the population is 30:1, quite obvious. :)

her Agency contact assured her/us she could leave before the contract end
First Rule when dealing with any agency to do with Filipino's, and many on here will agree.....believe bugger all they say, they'll tell you anything to get money.

I don't look down on my future wife. For the hours she works alone she deserves so much more. It's a simple statement of fact. She earns more than in the Phils but that doesn't make it fair or just.
You need to stop looking at it from a Western point of view. I work 12-14 hrs a day, 7 days a week, I only get Xmas day & Good Friday off...and even then I do some work. Do I get a well paid wage for that? £92 a week??

Sure there may be problems ahead but this is a completely unexpected shock - I've already booked my flight, the Hotel and her brother is arranging the wedding....
If you search this forum, or Google, you'll find that this was rather a silly thing to do. Red tape first....then plans.......You wouldn't just walk into Burma/Iran without doing any paperwork/research!!

As I say, many of us here have been what you're going through. It's not easy, but if you really love someone, it is worth waiting.

Hey if they won't let her leave then I'll tell her exactly what to do:
nothing, she goes out every day wherever she likes, sits in her room and watches TV and refuses to work until the sack her. I could pay her 17x what she earns in Singapore...
Just because you think it's wrong, does not mean it is wrong. If you go into work tomorrow, would you just sit there all day watching TV because your fiancee didn't agree with your contract or wages? Apart from that, she'd get into trouble, and would have NO chance of getting realeased from the contract early.

easygoingman

30th August 2006, 09:08

well, Singapore immigration say for a domestic worker to leave the country apart from a ticket all they need are a valid Work Permit and passport. That sounds easy enough.

I had searched for many, many hours on various websites before I asked my questions here...

It's not me putting pressure on my fiancee to leave, she is desperate to leave ASAP. She doesn't need the job, the money and misses me so much.
Of course she can't tell me to quit my job until she can support me but if the tables were turned and she could financially support me and told me to quit, I would:)

KeithD

30th August 2006, 11:02

But she can't leave unless given permission by her employer, otherwise it is classed as AWOL, and the police become involved.

As I said earlier, she can try and bunk out of the country, but she can't transit through Singapore at any time in the future, someone in a uniform will be waiting for her.

We prefer to keep everything in order and legal on here.

Scenario:
She bunks out back to the Phil. He employer loses the bond, and is fined by the police. They also file a report against your girl. This will then be added to the immigration database so they know when she is back on Singapore land.
No worries, she'll transit through HK eh? As long as there immigration doesn't talk to Singapore's fine, but we don't know that :)
Anyway, you apply in the Phil for a UK visa......they do an immigration check....and up pops a black mark.....visa denied.

Your choice, any decision now will effect your whole life. So be careful what you choose.

easygoingman

30th August 2006, 12:03

My fiancee has given notice that she wants to leave and because her employer refuses to accept it (they think her life is one that serves them and as a Filipina even after she's married she will be a domestic worker all her life in Singapore!) :doh

she's meant to stay there against her will? :NoNo:

Can you show me the evidence that if a lady who has lived and worked in many countries for 13 years and then has left one country 'illegally' this means she can never enter the UK?

I put the word 'illegally' in inverted commas because on the Ministry of Labour website for Singapore for FDW it states they are free to leave their employment if they choose...

Workers of the world unite! :Erm:

KeithD

30th August 2006, 12:57

Can you show me the evidence that if a lady who has lived and worked in many countries for 13 years and then has left one country 'illegally' this means she can never enter the UK?
Evidence!! You want me to get written statements of the people I know who have been through it......Jeeeeez!!! Like we all have no experience of these matters on here......If my wife, her friend (who just left Sing), or any of the others spoke to your fiancee they would tell her the above.

I put the word 'illegally' in inverted commas because on the Ministry of Labour website for Singapore for FDW it states they are free to leave their employment if they choose...
I haven't said they can't physically leave, I'm just opening your eyes to what MAY happen if she does. As I said before, if she does it without permission, the employer loses a few grand on the bond.....I'd put that technically down as theft myself, but other may think differently.

The only question you need to ask is, "Is it worth gambling both of your futures, rather than just wait a mere 8 months?". I'm a professional gambler, and I'd only go gamble when EVERYTHING is in my favour to the best of my knowledge.

On top of all that, if she got permission, she'd still have to work 1-2 months notice.

easygoingman

30th August 2006, 21:24

OK Keith I understand what you are saying.
I'll contact the UK Immigration to see what they say about potential problems in Singapore affecting UK Visa applications in the Phils (she has successfully come here on a Visa before and left as agreed)
Of course we could wait another year but every day being so far apart seems like at least a week! :(

KeithD

30th August 2006, 22:00

well, Singapore immigration say for a domestic worker to leave the country apart from a ticket all they need are a valid Work Permit and passport
Just a thought, but you never asked them the question "Is it OK for her to leave without permission while under contract?"....I bet you'd get a different answer than the one above.

KeithD

30th August 2006, 22:09

The missus just been speaking to someone, and the employer's fine if she does a bunk is S$5000.

baboyako

30th August 2006, 22:12

every tried going to her boss clutching the $5000SGD bond in crisp notes & asking for the contracted to be terminated?

baboyako

30th August 2006, 22:13

win2 that is the bond, ie they lose the bond.

easygoingman

30th August 2006, 23:03

The missus just been speaking to someone, and the employer's fine if she does a bunk is S$5000.

I think (in the sense no 100% definite information I've found) that the fine applies if the employee leaves and remains illegally in Singapore.

It doesn't apply if the workers goes on vaction and fails to come back

If however the worker has given written notice of leaving and leaves the country after said notice period then surely immigration/airlines have proof she left the country and maybe the fine doesn't apply?

easygoingman

1st September 2006, 13:51

every tried going to her boss clutching the $5000SGD bond in crisp notes & asking for the contracted to be terminated?

no as they are a very wealthy family, I don't exist to make the rich even richer unless I have no other option.

anyway nothing to add now, except have to see when my financee leaves if that's all ok first.
Then marry!
UK immigration say they don't care about a person leaving a job in a country, what we need to do is be honest on the settlement Visa application about what's happened which we will be

KeithD

1st September 2006, 14:11

From the Singapore goverment;

Repatriation and Security Bond
As the employer, you are responsible for the repatriation of your worker since you brought her
into Singapore. To ensure that employers repatriate their foreign domestic workers, employers
are required to execute a Security Bond with the Work Pass Division. Under the bond,
employers are required to post a security deposit of S$5,000 per worker. The deposit can be
made in the form of a Banker’s or Insurance Guarantee. If you fail to repatriate the worker upon
cancellation of her Work Permit, you risk losing the $5,000 deposit

The employer can not repatriate her if she does a bunk and therefore lose the bond.

easygoingman

1st September 2006, 14:29

From the Singapore goverment;

The employer can not repatriate her if she does a bunk and therefore lose the bond.

my understanding was 'does a bunk' means staying illegally in Singapore. She won't be: she'll have left and they will have all the evidence - copy of airline ticket, resignation letter etc, to show she's left the country.

If it is the case that they will be fined, it's their responsibility for not allowing her to leave after giving notice.

KeithD

1st September 2006, 14:52

She agreed to a contract that does not allow her to give notice though, so she can't can she? It is the employers responsibilty to make sure they don't bunk off, hence most will keep hold of the passport (illegally), so they don't lose the bond.

I may sound like a git, just telling you how it is in Singapore.

My missus said she'll talk to your girl, but she'll only tell her the above.

easygoingman

1st September 2006, 15:04

my lady has her own docs all safe. But the Agency won't show her the contract or speak to her about it either so she can't tell if she's giving the right notice period.

whatever now, her mind is 100% made up...

KeithD

1st September 2006, 17:20

andypaul

2nd September 2006, 19:18

I'd first of all advice her to contact Singpaore Ministry of Employment and see what they say (or you call them on Monday). It's preferable to do everything by the book if possible.

They'll tell you exactly what the law is, and any legal ways out of the contract.

The agency will not want her to bunk off either, as it will cost them business.

Possible futuristic problem: Applies for British Citizenship - Refused on the basis of outstanding bounty in Singapore!! Wouldn't happen now, UK only use pencil & paper, but you never know what happens, and we always advise everyone on here to stick by the book.

Just read the thread and i have to agree with mr Admin.

Best to go the right way about things, just imagine what would happen if a future flight was diverted to Singapore for whatever reason.

Sounds like your Lady is a good employee, that or the employees are worried that they will lose the bond if she leaves early even if they give her permission. That or are worried about the cost and hassle of finding another good employee though the agency.

Like baboyako said maybe assiting them find a new employee might be the best way? But no way pay them the bond!!

easygoingman

17th November 2006, 18:07

well thought I'd pop back and say what happened.
and anything I say is just what happened for us.
can't say it works this way for everyone else.

My fiancee ran away from Singapore, stole nothing, sent all her revelant docs and copies to her employers, they went to the police but found nothing was stolen and she had left the country so filed no charges.

When back in the Phils, she sorted out marriage docs with the amazing help of her half brother who did so much and we were married in a big Catholic ceremony 3 weeks ago :)

Married in Mindanao escorted by security 90% of the time!
Honeymoon in Manila, in the most memorable time of my life in the hottest country I've ever been with the nicest, kindest, softly spoken people I've ever found!
Lots of good food, friends made and I'm a member of a new family of about 160 people :omg:

The VISA application will be sent in very soon and hopefully my wonderful darling, loveliest lady I've ever known, so kind and sweet with that gwapa accent: now my first and only wife will live with me in the UK nearly next year! :Beer:

take care all

Ping

17th November 2006, 20:12

Firstly, can I ask you a question. How many more months left of your fiancee@s contract on that time or was she been in Singapore for few months. If she got a good relationship with her employer they will understand her if she explain to them honestly. She knows full well that its in the contract agreement that you have to pay the employer five thousand dollars when you break the contract.In the case that if have few months to go why she cannot wait.In that case she can help her employer find a replacement and she can asked them permission to exit in Singapore.

I been working in Singapore for many years, and when I met my husband I was just renewed my sixth contract so I told my husband the situation
that I have to finished my contract so that I can exit in Singapore.The only difference was the employer is an expat from Holland.So my husband waited for two years. And its very easy to exit in Singapore not many requirements and our expenses was only two hundred eighty dollars for the
visa, and the processing was five working days. I submitted my application Monday morining, give schedule for interview by Friday morning and
collected my passport with the visa in it in the afternoon.The requirements from me was my passport and birth certificate only and from my husband was his passport,birth certificate, bank statement,decree absolute his a divorce or a pension payslip if his a pensioner.

Oh, by the way if your employer is Singaporean you have to asked thempermission to exit in Singappore,a written one. Because some Singaporean wont allow you to exit there and they insist to go back to Philippines but if you have good relationship and understanding employer they will help you. Like my friend went toAmerica with fiancee visa her employer help her because she got a good relationship with them and when the
future hubby visited her in Singapore she told them, introduced to them have dinner with them.That case the employer was so proud of her and
also gave advise and also gave her pocket money.

Well the way your fiancee did was very dangerous.Why because if incase the employer get sooo anger with her they can planted some evidence so that she will be put in jail.Did she know about Singapore law.Yes you can say it works but she did'nt realise its very dangerous.

Well its all done . Congrats and good luck to both of you.

Ping

17th November 2006, 20:49

Hey. don't say Singapore has a dictator govt.I've been working there for many years.And tell you what Singapore is one of the safest and best country to live in this century.And don't look down on me because I am degree holder before I went to Singapore. If you understand what is law and rules that it. Singapore law is law, rules is rules, its fair and just . You can
not bend or twist it,no favouritism.Not like here in Uk.

Ping

17th November 2006, 21:02

How come your girl friend suddenly change her mind after meeting you. Why can't she wait the 8 months time.Its not that long like my case before, we've
waited two years because I understand the laws and rules.I have a official contract between my employer and the Philippine govt. with the Philippine govt. official seal. You two are just so hot headed.The agency can't do nothing about it. Its between your girlfriend and her employer. Abide by the rules and don't be one sided.

easygoingman

18th November 2006, 14:53

Hello Ping

My then fiancee had over six months of her contract to go. Her employer would not discuss her leaving early at all. Just refused to accept the possibility. I absolutely never forced my fiancee to leave. I told her I would wait but a whole year without seeing one another?! So incredibly hard.
She had fully made up her mind to leave. She had no problems leaving through Singapore immigration as she had her work permit and passport. No one questioned her. Like I said I'm not advising this is the way for everyone but it's the truth of what happened in our relationship and of course when I flew out to Manila to marry her to be greeted at the airport by my tiny fiancee running to hug me, there is no feeling like it after 6 months apart!

why wait when we want to marry?
If you wanted to that's your decision but we didn't want to wait any longer. Hot headed? LOL, we are both in our thirties and calm people normally :)

I have one life to live and don't want to waste one day of it If I don't have to and I've found a lady who feels the same

baboyako

18th November 2006, 19:13

the best way to deal with authority is,

:UpYurs::action-smiley-081::UpYurs::action-smiley-081::UpYurs:

KeithD

19th November 2006, 09:51

the best way to deal with authority is,

:UpYurs::action-smiley-081::UpYurs::action-smiley-081::UpYurs:

...and that's why the UK is now a :action-smiley-081: .....because of people with that attitude.

fred

19th November 2006, 19:54

Just read this thread.
I wonder why some people ask advise when they know exactly what they are going to do all along..:NoNo:
Im surprised that Keith wasted his time on this time wasting :censored:.

KeithD

19th November 2006, 20:40

easygoingman

20th November 2006, 10:30

Just read this thread.
I wonder why some people ask advise when they know exactly what they are going to do all along..:NoNo:
Im surprised that Keith wasted his time on this time wasting :censored:.

We used this forum in order to help make a decision as well as other places on the internet, nothing said on here would dissuade my darling from running away to marry.

So thanks all for your support, friendly advice and celebrating the happy marriage of two people as you all do :Erm: :doh