Our Friends In Europe

[jonnijon]

According to the Financial Times our friends in europe,are once again trying to tell us how many hours a week we can work :furious3:
Only 48 hours a week they say :Cuckoo:I for one would starve if thats all I would be allowed.As far as im concerned they can stick europe and the euro where the sun never shines.:butthead:

[KeithD]

"Hey Boss.....I need an extra 4 hours work this month to pay the mortgage or the house will be taken back by the bank"

..."No problem little employee" :xxgrinning--00xx3: ..."Oh hang on......., you've used up all your allowed quota so you can't"..."I can lend you a tent...." :doh :Brick:

[joebloggs]

and on the other foot..

those workers who have to do over time and not get paid for it

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7170813.stm

:NoNo:

[somebody]

Many companies i know you just sign a letter if you work over the hours. I did it a few years ago. But we had to work something like 13 weeks before anything would register if i recall correctly.

Always a way around it if it was in place for both employers and employees.

The rest of europe manages to get around the rules when they need, i have noticed.

Anyway in all workplaces i have seen several hours a day are taken up chinwaging or skiving.

I know my company although customer (internal and external are tied to set hours) many of us are able to be flexible with our hours i.e once the work is done and not needed you can slink off. But when its all hands to the pumps its stay as long as needed. Same in many companies and workplaces.

The ruling from what i see is more to protect the employee if they feel they are being forced in to working long hours.

Im sure many on here who have to travel for work especiallly longer distances will agree its impossible to not go over the hours set. Many from Europe who I work with break the rulings all the times.

[KeithD]

The ruling from what i see is more to protect the employee if they feel they are being forced in to working long hours.
...but those companies ignore the laws anyway, so it will make no differnce to them what the EU do.

I see the car industry have implemented it already, although they seem to think the EU said 4.8 hours a week :icon_lol:

[jonnijon]

That is what they are trying to take away,your right to sign saying that you want to work more than 48 hours.

[somebody]

That is what they are trying to take away,your right to sign saying that you want to work more than 48 hours.
But from how i see as Mr admin says.

Who montiors it? If your company wants you to work overtime they have to pay you which i guess the tax office will see but as they only see an amount and are desperate for all the money they can.

Who would montior it. I presume there must be some quango and a group of inspectors who stroll around "montioring the situation"

But as far as i recall its mainly the companies HR department and the worker who would have to report it in most cases. If both sides have no problem then you carry on. I belive most companies made you sign the paperwork so you could nt go off and complain.

If others know please let us know or i may ask HR after the Xmas holiday.

[Scouse]

Why would you want to work more than 48 hours per week? Don't you like having time off with family and friends.

To go with the maximum working week, the minimum wage should be increased to a living wage. At the moment all we are doing as with tax credits to low paid workers is subsidising companies who are making profits by paying low wages.

If an employee is receiving tax credits then that companies tax bill should be increased to cover the cost (and a bit more) to encourage them to pay a decent wage.

As for where the law comes from does it matter that it comes from Brussels or London? Neither of them are accountable to anybody but themselves.

[KeithD]

Why would you want to work more than 48 hours per week? Don't you like having time off with family and friends..
I work on average 10 hours a day, 365 days a year.....if the EU force small business to do 48rs, 1,000's will go bust.

[adam&chryss]

I work between 55-60hrs per week inc. saturdays and it`s not cos I enjoy it!
It`s cos I want to provide a better future for my family.
It`s not much fun sitting at home without money for trips out and stuff like that.
Plus with the current financial climate its not a bad idea to impress the boss by working hard and putting in some extra hours.
Personally I couldnt give a monkeys about europe and their ridiculous laws.
I hope we keep anything we have left that makes us English, and i`m sure thats not much now.....

[somebody]

I work on average 10 hours a day, 365 days a year.....if the EU force small business to do 48rs, 1,000's will go bust.

Dont forget the time your on call. As most small company owners are. Either as key holders in physical companies or to deal with downtime in the virtual world.

[somebody]

Why would you want to work more than 48 hours per week? Don't you like having time off with family and friends.

To go with the maximum working week, the minimum wage should be increased to a living wage. At the moment all we are doing as with tax credits to low paid workers is subsidising companies who are making profits by paying low wages.

If an employee is receiving tax credits then that companies tax bill should be increased to cover the cost (and a bit more) to encourage them to pay a decent wage.

As for where the law comes from does it matter that it comes from Brussels or London? Neither of them are accountable to anybody but themselves.


People wish to have jobs, if you work in the Uk your working in a ecomony whatever spin they put on it that is shrinking.
Employing more people in the civll services and councils will not do much to help the balance of trade which wheter your a household or a country you need to have more money coming in than flowing out.

The only organsations which seem to have in great numbers people on flexible hours and low hours aweek seem to be in public sector. Funny how they all want wage increases, less hours and there amazing pensions.
Yet think the private sector which brings in the money into the system from outside of it via tax. Which works to far less decent overall packages should work as they do. But dont seem to comprhend the companies they work for would be uncompetive and therefore close, contract or move abroad and then if we relied on the public sectors taxs to pay both their wages and all the services plus all the imported goods and services we would very quickly see that its a flawed plan.

Although your ideals are excellent and I would like to see them happen I feel as well as good the minimum wage has pegged wages in jobs where before some got paid less and others have had their wages dropped to that level.

When I was with my Wife looking at the job market a few years back i was shock how wages in jobs were so low everything was minimum wage very few were any higher if they were higher it was minimal.

I worked in a supermarket as a student in the 90's and after a few years i was earning just over a fiver ten years later people were earning not a lot more yet the avg salaried wage had gone up a great deal.

Some people work seasonal and in demand based jobs. Where some weeks they will work more hours than 48 and others far less.
Some people are pushed by employers and you need rules but there has to be flexibilty.
How do you want to count the 48 hours. Most evenings and weekends I work at home, emails, reading, developing ideas and reviewing past work. Why because I know to get anywhere in this highly competive world thats what needed. My wife also studies for her present career and further skills. We both have and will attend evening courses. When I have taken exams at the local prometric centre on a sunday or an evening many of the people taking exams ae rushing off to their second jobs or study again. Many are people who have recently arrived in the Uk. Would they only work for 48 hours a week. They say no I want to improve.

Any extra pressure on companies and red tape really is not going to be a good idea. If wage costs rise the news might as well be dedicated to closing and the transfer of jobs abroad.

We all need to get used to lower wages due to the huge increase in competion as the job market has expanded to almost the entire working population of the world.

Do i like it no, but thats the price of a Global market and trying to give equal access to all.

[johncar54]

Having worked about 60 hours a week during most of my working life, plus at least 2 to 3 hours a day travelling, I am all for shorter hours. However, one should get a reasonable wage for that work. Of course, people working longer hours deprives others from having a job. I work as a volunteer interpreter in Spain, assisting people who need to communicate with the police, but I try to ensue that my work does not deny others a job. I know that if I was not there the police would not employ someone.

[KeithD]

H.....Of course, people working longer hours deprives others from having a job......
:Erm: Eh!!! So all those who have not retired at 60 are pinching jobs, those on government sponsored eduction at work are stealing jobs, the able bodied are nicking jobs from the disabled....and so you can go on and on.....:doh

[johncar54]

That not what I said, but if you that what you think it's fine with me.

[KeithD]

I cut'n'pasted it exactly from your post.....so who said it then? :Erm: :doh

[johncar54]

Eh!!! So all those who have not retired at 60 are pinching jobs, those on government sponsored eduction at work are stealing jobs, the able bodied are nicking jobs from the disabled....and so you can go on and on.

I meant what you said, did not reflect what I had said. But, yes, working beyond retirement age would often deprive another of a job.

However, thats not why I retired and came to live in the sun at 48, although I can recommend it ! An off shoot of doing that meant I did not become cynical and bitter.

[somebody]

If many retireed at 60 in the UK they would be on income support, surely as many pensions dont start till 65?

Sometimes companies need people to stay on longer in all levels of the firm if the person is willing its better they stay. Seen many a firm have to bring in somebody back as a consultant as they for whatever reason (either the employer didn't request them to pass on skills or knowledge, or the employee kept it to themselves to protect themself from being booted out early)

Very rarely ever seen or heard of a company reducing hours and increasing staff in the private sector.
Of course its common in the public sector but efficency is never a big issue. Many times my company finds oursleves having to deal with two sometimes three people who work in the same postion as they job share. These projects big or small always take far long to complete and normally never to the complete satisfaction of both parties.

Strangely I was told by a HR bod that often the job share employees were paid far more than a indivual worker and of course the employers costs were far higher.

[Troubadour]

The plan is for everyone to work 84 hours a week for £5.35 an hour.

I support a 48 hour maximum week, but only if you get a living wage for that 48 hours.

Capitalism is the problem - competition means one thing only - competition to batter the workers wages down to increase profits. All other costs are non-negotiable.

The problem is... Cut workers wages and no one can spend any money because they are all too poor.

So you can only get around it by extending credit...

Extended credit = rising prices for houses - which increases the greed of house sellers - which leads to even more extended credit...

Fractional reserves are increased from 10% to 20% - 30, 40 .... 60%...

Bang!

The bubble bursts...

and here we are.... Trillions in debt.

Yes - I am a MARXIST

NO - I am not apologising - I was right all along

[KeithD]

I enjoy my work, money is just a side-effect bonus :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[somebody]

The plan is for everyone to work 84 hours a week for £5.35 an hour.

I support a 48 hour maximum week, but only if you get a living wage for that 48 hours.

Capitalism is the problem - competition means one thing only - competition to batter the workers wages down to increase profits. All other costs are non-negotiable.

The problem is... Cut workers wages and no one can spend any money because they are all too poor.

So you can only get around it by extending credit...

Extended credit = rising prices for houses - which increases the greed of house sellers - which leads to even more extended credit...

Fractional reserves are increased from 10% to 20% - 30, 40 .... 60%...

Bang!

The bubble bursts...

and here we are.... Trillions in debt.

Yes - I am a MARXIST

NO - I am not apologising - I was right all along


Free market if regulated with a social concious seems to have been the most popular. Though out time.

Russia and other communist countries made a hash of running their affairs. The way many communist countries control their people is if anything worse than the west (thats saying something:NoNo:)

So it seems humans are the weak point:NoNo:

If you turned the UK into a marxist country while the rest of the world carried on as it is do you think we would be any better? would people buy our products or services how would we service our debts? Would we be able to create and produce all the lifesaving drugs and source all materials we need for our health care?

Even cuba has to export its health workers abroad to get oill and cash for the system. They also pimp out the health care to anyone with money and the locals miss out or pushed down the queue. Check out Camilo Cienfuegos compared to what the locals version?

What do you call a living wage? As many in the world get by on two dollars a day?


A world where all shared everything equally would be great im with you there all the way.
But its unlikely to happen with human nature (ie evolution is survival of the fittest) so finding a happy medium is the best way surely?

With out competion the Human race would not be what it is now in its level of development. In fact most likely would not exist, as even animals compete for resources.

[joebloggs]

Even cuba has to export its health workers abroad to get oill and cash for the system. They also pimp out the health care to anyone with money and the locals miss out or pushed down the queue. Check out Camilo Cienfuegos compared to what the locals version?

i think you will find much of the health care and drugs is free in cuba, espcially if your low paid..

i remember watching a film 'sicko' by Michael Moore,it showed some Americans who were injured as they tired to rescue people from the 9/11 attacks, they were refused treatment in the usa or they couldn't afford it, he took them to cuba where docs looked at them and gave them medicines for free or were very cheap compared to usa prices..

[somebody]

i think you will find much of the health care and drugs is free in cuba, espcially if your low paid..

i remember watching a film 'sicko' by Michael Moore,it showed some Americans who were injured as they tired to rescue people from the 9/11 attacks, they were refused treatment in the usa or they couldn't afford it, he took them to cuba where docs looked at them and gave them medicines for free or were very cheap compared to usa prices..


Yeah its free but like all goverments left or right they spin. Some mates from football who are very left of centre minded went over there and were the ones who told me although the system has many plus points he had many down sides.

They do many things the right way but still chase the hard currency and have thousnads of doctors working abroad and many people from south american countires cloging up their system. All in the cause of money and oill which seems to corrupt or sway all.


Great idea for a system but like the NHS far from perfect

[Troubadour]

I said I was a Marxist - Not a Stalinist. I do not believe one country can isolate itself from the rest of the World - nor did Marx. Marx was not a Stalinist either.

A living wage is a wage that allows a person to feed himself and his family, while playing a full and active role in all desired aspects of the Society in which that person lives.

Evolution is concerned with the Natural World - Not the Social World. Giraffes do not learn to grow long necks, but people learn to hate from Nationalistic and Racists pedants, a policy that serves to divide and rule people rather than seek common humanity.

[Scouse]

We all need to get used to lower wages due to the huge increase in competion as the job market has expanded to almost the entire working population of the world.

Does that include the bosses? I doubt it. Do you see any of them working on a minimmum wage? Never. When their company goes bust due to THEIR decisions, who suffers? Not them. They just ring a mate and get another cushy well paid job with huge bonuses for making another mess.

As for Russia et al being communist, you make me laugh. They were state capitalist. True communism means production for consumption not competition, less waste and everybody having a say in how things are done, not being dictated to by a centralist government.

I'm not a Marxist, Leninist, Stalinist or any other type of Communist but have read widely and know what is what politically/economically.

The main weapon of capitalism is divide and rule and it is still working as can be seen by the reactions to my post.

Good luck if you wish to continue to ake money for others while being expected to live on a pittance. You may be loyal to your employer but they certainly won't be loyal to you.

If you get made redundant the will give you their platitudes about how they have no choice but they really don't care. I have seen it and suffered it myself so speak from experience. All they care about is their own bank balance.

I agree their is much waste in both national and local government organisations, but you can't blame the workers for that, it's not them making the decisions.

As for the private sector being the ones to bring money in to the system, they also take it out without paying tax like those of us on PAYE. Where does this money come from? The vast majority of them don't risk their own money but borrow against the company to ensure there is enough to line their own pockets. When they can't pay they raid the pension fund but most of the bosses are in different systems so they don't suffer.

Well enough of my rant for now, but I do feel better for it. You can't beat a good old fashioned political argument!

[johncar54]

Russia never 'achieved' communism, as per Carl Marx, it was socialist, allegedly on the road to be communist.

Happy Christmas / Hanukkah / holidays, December etc.

[KeithD]

Britain is a communist state. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Government own the banks......

A policeman whose name appeared on the BNP list is on a misconduct charge...:Erm:.....I thought it was a legal political party, and we lived in a democracy!!!

What democracy.....?? We are ruled by communist EU dictatorship :NoNo:

[johncar54]

A policeman whose name appeared on the BNP list is on a misconduct charge........I thought it was a legal political party, and we lived in a democracy!!!

Police Officers are restricted in what they can do, not only by Statue Law but by Service Regulations. An example 'being unfit for duty through alcohol whilst off duty' They are also prohibited by law from going on strike and are exempt from the 'Unfair Dismissal' laws. Belonging to certain groups is also contrary to regulations.

However, in the Met Police there's a Black Officers group, a gay group and a lesbian group. It is through forbidden to have a white officers group.

And you thought you had it hard!

As the song goes, "A policeman's lot is not a happy one."

[bornatbirth]

i work a 35 hour week and dislike doing that!

i cant understand why anyone would want to work a 48 hour week or even more,have you got nothing better to do?

as the world is going into melt down alot of us are going to lose there jobs,so why work so much?

but dont we all live in a communist state,i thought the goverment controls everything and look where it has got us.

[jonnijon]

Think this has gone off topic, now we have one that does not like working 35 hours a week.No wonder the country is in the s:censored:.

[KeithD]

.....have you got nothing better to do?
Considering my company runs my hobby, no! :rolleyes:

[Scouse]

What democracy.....?? We are ruled by communist EU dictatorship :NoNo:

I didn't say the Uk is a democracy, in fact I would say it is far from it!

Personally I don't think there is a single democratic country anywhere, as the only system used in so-called democratice countries is 'representative democracy' with the population having the chnce to put a cross in a box (or the equivalent) every few years. None of the politicians are accountable or recallable if they go against what they said they woud do.

Communist EU dictatorship? It is a capilist club to make the rich richer and keep the ruling classes in power. Why do you think they insist on competition for everything?