Affivavit of Support [Archive]

EdwardB

2nd January 2009, 16:14

Friday January 2 and Phillippines immigration at Davao have just refused to let my girlfriend board the Cebu Pacific flight to Hong Kong without an "affidavit of support"

She is 26, has a bank account and is not exactly poor. But she has never been abroad/used her passport before.

We have been going out for 3 years and see each other for a week at a time up to 5 times each year. She also does some work for both my UK & Hong Kong companies. So we talk to each other everyday at least once.

I'd really appreciate some guidance on this so she can get on the Monday night flight to Hong Kong.

1. Was this really legitimate?
2. Is their a way round it? It will be tricky to get something signed by a Philipines consulate/embassy in the timescale.

Frankly I find it downright bizarre that a 26 year old, who is bringing business in to The Philippines and is capable of supporting herself on a weeks visit to Hong Kong is subjected to such pain & humiliation.

But then again I have never expected much from an immigration service that quite unbelievably uses the e-mail contact address philimigatwarmplacedotwhatever on landing cards.

Thanks in anticipation

EdwardB

3rd January 2009, 15:25

By the lack of response - & also lack of information despite in depth searching on the web - this may be a new issue.

So thanks to all who have read - the read count looks high.

Having spent the best part of a valuable Saturday, that should have been of leisure with Ana Lyn, visiting the Giant Buddah by day & dinner & clubbing at dragon-i , I'm coming to the conclusion that this was an illegal act by immigration at Davao airport - and also a serious breach of human rights.

Despite consultation I have found no legal foundation for the request for an "Affadivit of Support". Anyway in International Law it would be a difficult request to argue for by any government if a passport has been granted to a citizen.

Ana Lyn was one of 5 females denied attempted boarding at Davao for 5J724 to Hong Kong on January 2 2009. (Cebu Pacific must know this and are therfore in my opinion complicit in an illegal act by selling tickets they know will not be used for travel.)

Apparently no males were denied passage through immigration for boarding!!! Sexism?? Draw your own conclusion.

Help please. I know I sound Bolshi but I do need help!

Has anyone else experienced this in The Philippines from any port of exit?

Or is it something that has been invented by immigration (SIC) at Davao airport?!

Please help.

(PS I'm very proud of Ana Lyn. She has handled this with her usual professional stoicism - credit to the strength of Filipinas.)

PeterB

3rd January 2009, 16:32

We are puzzled by this, and find it difficult to believe that it's legitimate.

It may be worth checking the BI website for any pointers on this matter.

I would also suggest contacting the main BI office in Davao - but of course, she can't do this until Monday morning.

PeterB

3rd January 2009, 16:43

This page: BI travel requirements for filipinos (http://immigration.gov.ph//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=239&Itemid=80) makes no mention of an affidavit of support and a search across the BI site for 'Hong Kong' returns nothing.

johncar54

3rd January 2009, 16:43

My friends fiancée had a similar problem a few weeks ago.

This is a copy of the letter I faxed to Immigration. It was not sworn but it was accepted. She had a copy of my passport and credit card as I had paid for the flight.

She flew the following day, paying 100$ for the change of flight.

Hope this is helpful

COPY OF MY LETTER

FAX .0063 2 8795917 13th November, 2008.
Chief Immigration Officer.
Immigration Dept, R.O.P. Manila

RE Miss Arleen Dxx, Passport No. XX.

Who was booked on PAL flight PR730 on 13th November 2008, flying to Bangkok, with a return ticket to MNL on 9th December, 2008.

The original ticket was booked by me on-line and paid for on my VISA credit card, No. xxxx xxxxx xxxxx 6826.

I subsequently changed the return date to 9th December Ms Dxxxx. I sent the money for the additional payment to Ms Dxx and she paid in PAL office in Makati.

The reason for the trip is to meet her fiancé Carl XXXXXX, a personal friend of mine. The couple were introduced by me and my Filipino wife and Carl stayed in Manila with Ms Dxxxx a couple of months ago. They are booked to stay at Asia Pattaya Hotel, room 7xx, 352 Moo 12 Pratamnak Road. Nongprue, Pattaya City, Cholburi 20150 Thailand. Tel : +66(0)38 250401-11 Fax: +66(0)2 215 9005

In January Carl XXXX will travel to Manila, with documentation to permit him to marry Ms Dxxx in early February, 2009. They will then apply for a visa for Ms Dxxx, then Mrs Arleen XXXXX, to reside permanently in Spain.

I hereby undertake and guarantee, to be fully responsible for all costs for Mr Dxxx for her holiday in Thailand and for her return to Philippines. She has travel insurance which was arranged by Carl XXXX.

(John Cxxxxx )
C/ XXXXX
29640 Fuengirola,
Malaga, Spain
Tel / fax (34) 952 xxxxxx.

UK Passport Number 70xxxxxxxxx Copy attached.

Passport copied here on Original

Mrs.JMajor

3rd January 2009, 16:48

:yikes: How come,We Filipino can go HK w/o a visa just for 2 weeks,i have been there Sept 2007 for 2 weeks :Erm:

johncar54

3rd January 2009, 16:54

Further to the above.

I have had a heated exchange of emails with Immigration Bureau as I had asked them when I booked the flight what the passenger would need. They said, in an email, Passport and return ticket ONLY.

In the exchanges they said, sometimes the Immigration Officer wants more and that is a matter for that officer. (Guess I was wrong when 'coffee money' sprang to mind)

I am very annoyed at the way my friends fiancée was treated and I tried hard to get a refund of the extra flight charge and possibly compensation. Needless to say, unfortunately the Phil Gov does not seem to respect their citizens as maybe other countries do.

I decided against a trip to Phil this year, as planned, after the experience, although of course continue to support the Phil Gov by supporting my wife's family.

OK got that off my chest.

Happy new year to all.

Mrs.JMajor

3rd January 2009, 16:56

. (Guess I was wrong when 'coffee money' sprang to mind)
Happy new year to all.

Was thought of the same thing john :NoNo: under the table,we call it:doh

PeterB

3rd January 2009, 17:22

The other thing that comes to our minds is that the agent or booking office would not have allowed the booking to be made without being sure that all the necessary documentation is in place. Where was the ticket booked?

Juliet has already said that she travelled to HK without any problem. Also, a filipina friend of Ruby's travelled Davao to HK last month, to meet her German boyfriend, without any difficulty.

However, we certainly know of others who have had to make 'under the table' payments in order to be allowed to board flights.

joebloggs

3rd January 2009, 17:48

it does sound like a under the table payment scam..

if there was going to be a problem, then surely the airline would not let them board the plane without the correct visa/paper work to fly to HK. because it would be the airline that would be fined by the HK authorities if someone did land without the correct paperwork, so why would phils immigration be randomly involved in stopping people ?

did she get as far as booking in ? i take it she was if she was refused to board ? so she got as far as booking in and getting her ticket ?? if so the airline was happy with her paper work ?

johncar54

3rd January 2009, 18:08

For interest.

This was the reply I got from BI when I asked what papers my friends fiancée would need:-

From: "BI Helpdesk" <xinfo@immigration.gov.ph>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 10:06 PM
>> To: "John Cxxxxxx" <joxxxx@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Bureau of Immigration, Philippines: Filipipno travelling to
>> Thailand as a tourist.
>>
>>> She only needs to present a valid passport and a confirmed return ticket
>>> at the airport of exit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The CFO stamp is only for immigrants and not for tourist.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Have a nice day.

aromulus

3rd January 2009, 18:34

Slick scam, huh........???:omg:

reginacarlson

3rd January 2009, 19:29

Hello EdwardB. I used to work in a travel agency in the Philippines as a Sales and Reservations Officer for 3 years and had a few passengers who were denied boarding for Hong Kong (from Manila airport) because of 1 or 2 of the reasons below:

1. They are 1st time travellers/never been abroad before, and is travelling alone.
2. Passport is about to expire and only valid for 6 months or less.
3. Had no proof of accommodation in Hong Kong.
4. The way passengers carry themselves and the way they dress.

These passengers were denied regardless if they were flying via Philippine Airlines, Cebu Pacific or Cathay Pacific because the problem lies with the Philippine Immigration authorities. Some are either power tripping or in need of money under the table, and some just go strictly by the book. Reasons for these are due to a number of Filipina tourists who goes to Hong Kong to work illegally and never coming back to the Philippines. Under normal circumstances, a valid return ticket and passport is all that's needed to go to Hong Kong without a visa for a stay not exceeding 14 days.

However, at immigration's discretion, a proof of accommodation (hotel voucher or letter from sponsor/affidavit of support) may sometimes be required. I suggest that you fax your girlfriend a signed letter and a copy of your passport just like johncar54 did and indicate contact details as well should they need to speak with you and clarify the authenticity of the documents.

Hope this helps and don't worry, you'll be with your girlfriend soon.

cheesewiz

3rd January 2009, 23:19

for the immigration points of view is they are trying to avoid filipinos to do illegal thing pretending as a tourist but still this is againts human rights don't you think? Every filipino people has the right to travel as long they are in the right age, right state of mind and legal passport and visas....but again Philippine Immigration is:action-smiley-081:

joebloggs

3rd January 2009, 23:51

but again Philippine Immigration is:action-smiley-081:

but what's it got to do with the Philippine immigration department whether your papers are correct, that should be up to the airline your flying with and HK immigration when you land.

cheesewiz

4th January 2009, 00:46

but what's it got to do with the Philippine immigration department whether your papers are correct, that should be up to the airline your flying with and HK immigration when you land.

Oh Joe in Phils they always concerned on your papers/docs for any reasons:Erm: may be bec of envie for sure:D when I left the Phils to go here with my UK visa even the people in the airline desk are whispering while looking for my visa i am not in the immigration desk yet.

EdwardB

4th January 2009, 07:27

Thanks to all for that flood of responses.

Yes I've got the message I was expecting - it is down to the arbitrary discretion of the immigration officer!!

Anticipating problems - at Hong Kong - Ana Lyn had already been provided with & was carrying;

1. Letter from me
2. Photocopy of my passport
3. Copies of the reservation in here name at The Sheraton in Kowloon.

She also had registration for the Hong Kong Gift Fair.

Today I have now spent 3 hours at The Philippines Consulate in Hong Kong dealing with paperwork and standing in lines. I have to go back at between 15.00 & 16.00 to collect the affidavit. Another 20 quid wasted on top of nearly 100 on phone calls on Friday night plus yet another rapacious charge from Cebu Pacific.

I am not amused!!

& if the Philippines government has a lurker on these forums - as they should have. Guys you have a problem. In 2006/7 I invested a huge amount of money in The Philippines that resulted in well paid employment of over 100 people. I am in the process of making a decision for a similar investment in 2009 with a choice between Manila, China & North Wales. I was also thinking of setting up a business in Davao. This on top of the problems I have had with Philippines petty administration before means that my final decision is likely to be as arbitrary as that immigration officer's was at Davao on Friday night!!!

aromulus

4th January 2009, 08:43

I am in the process of making a decision for a similar investment in 2009 with a choice between Manila, China & North Wales.

North Wales sounds good........:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Looks like you have been having more than a fair share of expensive aggro.

But unfortunately, although we love it to bits, it is a country with some quirks, laws and customs totally alien to us from the west.

As I understand it, there is nothing that can be done because anybody flying alone will be subject to the same scrutiny and summary refusal to continue the voyage.

Thanks for bringing this matter to the forum attention, I am sure that by reading this, lone travelers leaving the Philippines Islands will be now better prepared and thus avoid nasty surprises at the point of embarkation.

But I am of the opinion that Travel Agencies should forewarn prospective passengers, at point of sale, that this may happen.

IainBusby

4th January 2009, 11:49

johncar54

4th January 2009, 14:10

& if the Philippines government has a lurker on these forums - as they should have. Guys you have a problem.

I really would like to think that they did have but I know I am whistling in the wind.

Having lived in Spain 20 years I know how difficult it is for one culture to understand another, or even begin to realise that other cultures exist.

It would take someone with real influence and power to take the Phil Gov to an International Tribunal on the distgusting way they treat their citizens, and even then they may not comprehend that they might be wrong.

My apologies to Filipinos, this is not directed at you but at the Gov who fail to afford you your basic rights, freedom of travel being just one.

Mrs.JMajor

4th January 2009, 14:21

& if the Philippines government has a lurker on these forums - as they should have. Guys you have a problem. In 2006/7 I invested a huge amount of money in The Philippines that resulted in well paid employment of over 100 people. I am in the process of making a decision for a similar investment in 2009 with a choice between Manila, China & North Wales. I was also thinking of setting up a business in Davao. This on top of the problems I have had with Philippines petty administration before means that my final decision is likely to be as arbitrary as that immigration officer's was at Davao on Friday night!!!

:NoNo: In behalf of the Philippines Edward I apologize:D

EdwardB

4th January 2009, 14:36

Thanks again. I got the "Affidavit of Support" I've also written a covering letter to the head of immigration at Davao (thanks johncar54 for the precedent.)

To make absolutely sure Ana Lyn is going to the immigration office in Davao with the scan of "The Affadvit", covering letter based on johncar54's precedent, & a complete copy of this thread with the most pertinent points highlighted in yellow! She has been told to be polite but if necessary "read the riot act".

Re some of the points of contention raised - apologies and no rudeness intended to anyone's points I have missed. It has been a busy day dealing with this and pulling business meetings forward with the hope of getting some free time later in the week. I agree with many of the points raised by the likes of joebloggs - but I can't deal with them. It's a bit like being knocked over on a Zebra crossing. You're still dead!!!

Cheesewiz yes it is a human rights issue. It is also sexist. I am a persistent b------ I won't rest without somebody being called to account and stopping this behaviour. & I'm not condoning the trafficking of females from any country to be used effectively as sex slaves. Trouble is I suspect the immigration officer's motives were moral but the process like many other Philippines regulations is flawed.

"But unfortunately, although we love it to bits, it is a country with some quirks, laws and customs totally alien to us from the west."

My view of France is wonderful country shame about the people. My view of The Philippines has always been wonderful people shame about the country!!

I am well experienced with the country and its wildly quirky systems. I wouldn't have met Ana Lyn if I hadn't been there - & even that has a bizarre beginning. I paid for her to go home from Manila to Davao because she was homesick!!!

I have more dinner party stories about the Philippines than any other subject. The problem is they arrogantly think they are the jewel of Asia due to the effective American colonisation. Meanwhile China & India have run rings round them & within a couple of years Vietnam will have got ahead. It is sad - these beautiful warm hearted people desrve better government!

"For arbitrary discretion, read SCAM! "

If only it was. She could have paid them. & I even offered such an option over the phone - at 2 quid a minute no doubt!!!

PeterB, thanks "BI travel requirements for filipinos" that is a cracker and has gone in the dossier.

Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Thanks to all

aromulus

4th January 2009, 18:17

My view of France is wonderful country shame about the people.
Thanks to all

:D Can't help liking this guy........:D

Mrs.JMajor

5th January 2009, 01:19

:D Can't help liking this guy........:D

:appl: :icon_lol::xxgrinning--00xx3:

Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Thanks to all

Best of luck,Edward

EdwardB

6th January 2009, 08:54

Well she finally arrived on the Monday night flight from Davao. We got back to The sheraton at just before 1.00a on Tuesday morning.

She went to the immgration office in Davao with the affidavit and all the other paperwork. They then made me fax the same to them. After a 10 minute kerfuffle using Yahoo messenger to talk to her, and the immgration officer at the same time immigration finally countersigned the paperwork.

I then had to buy a new ticket in Hong Kong. & as is probably well known Cebu Pacific don't accept non Filipino credit cards, so I had to go to the office and pay cash. More hassle.

What a shambles!! It cost me at least 10 hours of time and upwards of 300 quid. I got ripped off shamelessly by The Sheraton at 12pounds for 4 pages scammed to pdf. The fax bill - took 9 minutes - was nearly the same as a room night at The Sheraton.!!! (&I've got Skype, messenger, and both Ana Lyn & I have Hong Kong mobile phone numbers so we have just about every communications cost saving device known to man.)

As promised I won't let it rest. To add insult to injury Cebu said they always stop single girls travelling. Why the .... did they not warn me about the problems when I paid good money, first to book, and then when Ana Lyn changed the dates at their Davao office.

Once again many thanks. The support gave me confidence.

johncar54

6th January 2009, 09:05

Edward, Glad to hear Ana Lyn finally made.

Following the same action against my friend's finance at MNL I had an exchange of emails with BI, as like you, I felt it was something which needed review at a very senior level. I too (I am a retired senior London Detective) tend to follow injustices to get them resolved but I don't think I achieved anything.

I wish you good luck, if you decide to take this further, and if I can assist in any way please let me know. John (Johncar61@hotmail.com)

Mrs.JMajor

6th January 2009, 11:48

Ohh,glad !!! nice to hear, you made it,enjoy the fun being together Edward/Ana lyn

PeterB

6th January 2009, 20:27

Congratulations - I'm pleased to hear that you got together in the end.

To add insult to injury Cebu said they always stop single girls travelling.

This, clearly, is untrue. As I said in an earlier post, we have friends who have both traveled to HK, one as recently as last month. Neither of them had an affidavit.

gemini63

7th January 2009, 00:34

Congratulations - I'm pleased to hear that you got together in the end.

This, clearly, is untrue. As I said in an earlier post, we have friends who have both traveled to HK, one as recently as last month. Neither of them had an affidavit.

Im wondering too of this case. I came from Davao city too and travelled going or via hongkong many times, but i hvnt experienced that kind of treatment.Only they will ask is passport, return ticket and ask few questions and no more problem.Affidavit of support is not needed..And i always travel alone.I even got no return ticket sometimes from hongkong to phil. il just tell them im only a transit passenger to hongkong..no problem at all...

EdwardB

7th January 2009, 15:43

Thanks again to all - we are thorougly enjoying each other's company. As of tomorrow my hectic schedule reduces so we can enjoy time together - but in classic Filipina style I have had total support - & Ana Lyn is fiesty otherwise I would never have been interested!!!

To be frank she was using her passport for the first time - because for 3 years she was coming back to Manila to meet me. But I thought I had pre-empted any issues.

Re Cebu Pacific - and "Always". I took it for what it was worth. As in "appens" not our fault, but read between the lines we make good money out of this!

Oh and Ana Lyn in HK & outside The Philippines for the first time is deliciously hilarious.

I told her ithe climate would be like cool air conditioning.

It is 20C (68F in old money) here. She is wearing 2 fleeces (I had the sense to bring them out with me). & on the Star Ferry this morning she wore a hat (branded with one of my products I must admit.). But she has even tried on gloves!!

A Chinese guy outside the convention center was in stitches watching us - me in polo shirt preening in the weak sun and her putting on a second fleece plus a beanie. I have never smiled and giggled so much in my life.

Back to a serious subject has anyone any experience in incoroporating a business in The Philippines? If so please PM. I have spent a fortune on sub-contracting but I have a concept that could really fly if the system doesn't make it too difficult to be worth the effort.

EdwardB

11th January 2009, 22:28

Well I'm back in The UK - & Ana Lyn is back some 7,000 miles away in Davao.

She certainly found Hong Kong different from Manilla where we normally meet several times a year. She clearly enjoyed the experience although I suspect given her diet of fresh fruit, fish/chicken & rice the UK is going to be a challenge. Fortunately I cook pretty seriously & that is also pretty much my diet - plus I confess to some wine and odd bottle of lager.

But anyway - back to the reason for posting.

Despite an e-mail to the immigration commissioner in Manilla & copy to the immigration office in Davao we still had problems. Ana Lyn went to the Davao immigration office first thing last Monday. She was armed with all the paperwork but I still ended up talking through her online using YM, and by mobile, to an immigration officer. The fact he could see me on a cam clearly helped to persuade him to countersign the "Affidavit" as an approved copy!

Somehow the incident had got blown up and poor Ana Lyn was caught up in it. She was accused of telling the other girls who had been denied exit that the immigration officer who had refused her exit at Davao airport on Friday night had a tariff of 6,000 pesos. She denied - truthfully I hasten to add - any such knowledge. She was certainly telling the truth because I would have paid the 6,000 pesos and this thread would never have started!!

Smoke without fire?

Is this the tariff?

dondi

25th January 2009, 04:10

Back to a serious subject has anyone any experience in incoroporating a business in The Philippines? If so please PM. I have spent a fortune on sub-contracting but I have a concept that could really fly if the system doesn't make it too difficult to be worth the effort.

I used to run a resort in Palawan owned by a corporation based in the US. I was responsible in incorporating the business in the Philippines. It wasn't that complicated.. but then again it all depends on the type of business, composition of shareholders, capitalisation, etc.

What sort of business are you planning to put up?

Dondi

EdwardB

25th January 2009, 08:39

Thanks dondi, for the reply. It seems I can't be PM'd

I was looking up setting a studio to digitize peoples photos.

We'd look to bring in negatives (preferably rather than prints) & use high end scanners to digitize & return by e-mail/ftp/flickr. We may also offer the slightly luddite option of returning the negatives with prints, which may be attractive to the grey market who are the likely bulk of customers.

The skill set is readily available and the labor rates make the idea viable. It is also scaleable - & the available labor force is huge.

Where I have concerns are customs clearance and the costs of equipment given the very high relative costs of computers & components in The Philippines. Plus of course incorporation and who can effectively control.

I have sub contracted a lot of graphics work in to The Philippines over recent years. & apart from the inevitable delivery deadline issues the experience has been satisfactory.

dondi

26th January 2009, 00:26

Yes, you're a newbie so can't be PMd

Looks like you're getting into a very competitive business with the likes of Kodak and Fuji as main rivals. In fact, they have photo shops all over the country and in major malls. However, I'm not entirely sure how you will set up your biz and you might be looking at tapping a niche market.

Generally, foreign ownership of corporations in the Phils is limited to 40% and 60% should be Filipino owned. There are exceptions of course but I don't think your business would qualify (see link below). Corporations and partnerships are registered in the Securities and Exchange Commission. They provide pro-forma application forms and it takes a few weeks for approval as long as you have the right info.

You may opt to register your business as single proprietorship and this is handled by the Department of Trade and Industry. Again, you may be restricted in terms of ownership with a few exceptions.

You will also have to register with the local government who issues business permits. Finally, for tax purposes, you need to register with the Bureau of Internal Revenue.

Having a local contact to do processing of permits and licenses would help but you have to be careful choosing someone trustworhty. If you have friends or wife's relatives who can help, the better. Otherwise, don't just trust anybody as there are lots of opportunistic individuals lurking around. The rule is 'deal with someone you know'.

These are just the minimum. Once ypur business has taken off, you need social security (SSS), health insurance (Philhealth) and other statutory benefits for your employees like 13th month pay at the end of the year.

It may sound scary but for a seasoned businessman, that's a given especially if you decide to do business outside your comfort zone... it's part of the risk, so they say.

Google the topic or see link below for more info:

http://www.bcphilippineslawyers.com/foreign-ownership-of-corporations-in-the-philippines/318/

Hope this helps.

Dondi