Non Impediment to Marry Cert Manila 'for fianceé

[johncar54]

A friend is about to go to Manila to get married. Having ‘done the course’ when we were married a couple of years ago I have been helping him.

He applied for the Certificate of Non Impediment at the British Consulate in Malaga, so that he could collect it in Manila without having to wait the usual three weeks.

He has now been told that his fiancée must go with him when he goes to the consulate when he ges to collect the cert, take her passport and a ‘certificate on non impediment to marry from NSO’

I suspect someone has ‘got their wires crossed’ and I would be most grateful if anyone can tell me, or suggest, what we may have encountered.

Thanks for reading this.

[PeterB]

I certainly went in on my own last January, and didn't have Ruby's Cenomar. However, there have been a couple of people who reported that they have been asked for the Cenomar.

[rusty]

When I went in August last year, I went alone and they did ask for her Cenomar.

[johncar54]

When I went in August last year, I went alone and they did ask for her Cenomar.

Rusty, was that they did ask or did not ask ?

[rusty]

They did want to see her Cenomar.

[johncar54]

They did want to see her Cenomar.

Thank for that.

Can anyone see any legal reason why they should want it?

I object when being asked for something which is not necessary. It would seem they have no right to ask about a Filipino, its not UK and in my friend's case his wife will be coming to Spain so again no busniess of the UK. Unless they now have the right to say who we can marry in a foreign land !!!!!

I think I retired from the police in UK and left the country just in time !!!

[scottishbride]

I went to British Embassy recently to convert my Fiancee's CNI, yes they will ask your Fiancee's CENOMAR and passport.

[scottishbride]

[QUOTE=johncar54;108921]Thank for that.

Can anyone see any legal reason why they should want it?

They wanna make sure that both parties are free to marry.

[johncar54]

They wanna make sure that both parties are free to marry.

Thanks for that comment but it is not an explanation.

The Filipino authorities need to confirm both parties are free to marry. The cert from any other government is to confirm their citizen is free to marry. If I have a cert to say I am free to marry, that means I can marry anyone in any jurisdiction which will accept the 'free to marry cert' which my government has issued.

For my government to say they need to know who I am going marry is only a step away from saying they must 'approve' my choice before they will permit the marriage !

I am going to call the British Embassy this morning, I will keep you all posted.

[johncar54]

Further to the ‘Cenomar Saga’

I have been in touch with the British Consul in Manila and have confirmed that they have no legal authority to demand a Cenomar, nor the passport of your fiancée. I copy below the emails which I have exchanged with The Consul. That they have done so and will continue to do so must be contrary to our human rights and it opens the door to them imposing any condition/restriction which, for any reason they choose. If they are allowed to do this then British subjects may just as well have no rights. Their claim that it “assist us when deciding if we can issue a CNI” is blatantly false. It has NO BEARING on whether the person in respect of whom they are being requested to issue the CNI is free to marry i.e. the British Citizen. Who that person chooses to marry is the free choice of that person, even if that person, under the law of another country, is not fee to marry.

This I believe goes a long way to show that the FCO are making it up as they go and creating obstacles for no legal reason. As a former police officer in UK my powers were dictated by statue, it appears the FCO (believe) they are above that requirement. Where might this stop?

I believe this also supports my theory that the FCO have no right to bar certain groups from visiting UK. An example: I have been unable to find any legislation which specifically says a British citizen living in Europe cannot take his/her spouse, who has the right to live in the Schengen Area to UK for a holiday without complying with requirements which are not supported by legislation.




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COPY EMAILS:_
QUESTION

To: CONS-Manila@fco.gov.uk
Subject: Attention Ms. Joanne TEH,

I spoke to Carol in the Consulate in Malaga this morning. She suggested I contact you as she could not answer my question.

Re issue of 'Certificate no impediment to marry'

I am married to a Filipino and as such freely offer my assistance to anyone who may benefit from it. As a former senior UK police officer I strive to maintain my reputation of not misleading anyone and answer as comprehensively as possible their questions.

A friend of mine is about to marry my wife's best friend in Manila and we have been trying to ensure he has no problems of paperwork. It is in this capacity I ask this question:-

I understand you require the passport and CENOMAR in respect of the person whom the applicant intends to marry.

I intend contacting the FCO on this matter. However, prior to doing so, I should be most grateful if you would tell me why you require that information (if you do) and under what legal authority you have power to demand it ?

REPLY
The reason we ask for a CENOMAR is because bigamy is rife here. It is pointless us not asking for a CENOMAR and then someone tries to get a visa to go to the UK - our visa section also has this requirement. We have found in the past that Filipinos get married - when they are already still married to someone else

Joanne Finnamore-Crorkin
HM Consul
British Embassy

QUESTION
Thank you for your reply, however, in the case of my friend who is about to marry, he is Resident in Spain and thus will not be asking for a visa for his wife to go to UK. We know how 'unfriendly' the UK is in relation to Filipinos, as opposed to Spain who believe it is the right of a married coupe to be together, thus the visa for Spain is now about 60 euros and very straightforward and takes but a few weeks.

When I married in 2006 in Manila we were not asked for a passport nor a CENOMAR for my fiancée.

Do I understand correctly the mention of the two documents was in error and there is no legal requirement, especially in the case I quote and that when you do ask for the documents it just a system you have adopted for the convenience of yourselves and possibly applicants who may later wish to apply for a UK visa for their spouse ?


REPLY

We have tightened up on our procedures since 2006. You are correct, it is not a legal requirement, it is our own requirement to assist us when deciding if we can issue a CNI.

I therefore confirm that in order for this office or one of the Honorary Consuls to issue a CNI suitable for the Philippine authorities, we require to see a CENOMAR/annulment papers. Without one of these we will not issue a CNI.

Joanne

[rusty]

How big is that chip on your shoulder?

As far as I am aware, a CENOMAR is required by the local registry office where the marriage is taking place, as well as the British CNI, therefore as you have it already, what is the problem with showing it to the British embassy?

Just my opinion...

[johncar54]

How big is that chip on your shoulder?

As far as I am aware, a CENOMAR is required by the local registry office where the marriage is taking place, as well as the British CNI, therefore as you have it already, what is the problem with showing it to the British embassy?

Just my opinion...

Thanks for that comment. But just for interest, its not in the list of docs required in Cainta, Rizal

[PeterB]

How big is that chip on your shoulder?

I think that comment is unwarranted


As far as I am aware, a CENOMAR is required by the local registry office where the marriage is taking place, as well as the British CNI, therefore as you have it already, what is the problem with showing it to the British embassy?

Just my opinion...

What if the filipino party to the marriage does not possess a passport? Are the British authorities imposing a requirement that is not demanded by the Philippine authorities? It is now obligatory for a filipina to obtain a passport before she can marry a Brit?

Oh, and the problem is that many Brits travel from the UK to the provinces via Manila so that they can visit the Embassy in order to convert their CNI. This will no longer be possible if the filipinas Cenomar and passport are required.

[rusty]

I think that comment is unwarranted.

Apologies if I was a bit brash but feel this is making a mountain out of a mole hill.


What if the filipino party to the marriage does not possess a passport? Are the British authorities imposing a requirement that is not demanded by the Philippine authorities? It is now obligatory for a filipina to obtain a passport before she can marry a Brit?

Oh, and the problem is that many Brits travel from the UK to the provinces via Manila so that they can visit the Embassy in order to convert their CNI. This will no longer be possible if the filipinas Cenomar and passport are required.

Do they still need to visit the embassy to convert to local CNI? The issue is does the Filipino details need to be provided.

[johncar54]

Just for info:

I have now sent a complaint about the unofficial practice which the Manila Consul has adopted, via the consul in Manila, to the FCO.

Whilst I understand it maybe not all that important, it could still create difficulties. For example a friend has been planning the paperwork for his marriage which he hopes will take place in Manila on 13th Feb. Had he gone to the consulate to collect the CNI, arranged through Malaga, who knew nothing about the 'local practice in Manila' without the extra docs he would probably have had to change the marriage plans because of the extra, even few days, it would have taken to get the CENOMAR, not to mention the passport (his fiancée does not have a passport yet). As he will be staying in Makati he would not have had difficulty with travel but for others in the Provinces I hate to think of the problems it might cause.

I know some may not agree with me but we do have rights which should be respected. UK law works because it is intended to protect the citizen. There are enough obstacles without officialdom inventing more. The explanation that having the extra papers assists in the checks for the CNI is totally false, it is a lie.

I will report progress.

[bornatbirth]

i understand your point of veiw.

but is the entire visa process legal,take a look at all you need to apply for a visa from the very start getting a cni,all you need to say is you have never been married before and you get one? how does that make sense you could of been married 10 times and theres no required proof that you are or not.

and everything you need to get a visa comes from you,it seems so easy to lie and make it all up.
i wonder why i ever got worried about it!