Baby born in Philppines - UK passport?

[Cebu]

A quick question if anyone could help please. Would a baby born in the Philippines to a Filipino mother British father be entitled to a UK passport?

Also can someone explain the situation regarding birth certificates in the Philippines. I have heard rumours the original needs to be NSO (?) approved and this can take a year before a baby can get a passport of any description, Philippines or UK.

Can anyone advise on therse points please.

Thank you for your help.

Best wishes to all.

[fred]

No expert but would have thought the first thing to do is register the birth at the Brit embassy..Pretty sure an NSO can be got quickly enough..Just get ready for a long queue !! Im sure My mrs said she had to do the same thing some years back..
(Took about 12 hours in the queue)

[Cebu]

No expert but would have thought the first thing to do is register the birth at the Brit embassy..Pretty sure an NSO can be got quickly enough..Just get ready for a long queue !! Im sure My mrs said she had to do the same thing some years back..
(Took about 12 hours in the queue)

Thank you. 12 hours I can handle but 12 months is a bit of an issue!

[ginapeterb]

Under recent legislation passed in 2007 your child is fully entitled to a British passport, what you should do is go with your partner the British husband or boyfriend, or fiance, marital status is no issue here, and travel to the British Embassy, ask for consular section and tell the guards, you wish to go up and register your childs brith, providing the father is with you, they will register the birth, you can also ask for a consular birth certificate.

Once having registered the birth and providing the consular section does not seek proof of the father's DNA present in your child, this can also take time, for example if you have been in a relationship with the father, this helps, however if you are married to the father, generally the process is quicker.

However whatever your relationship status with the father, the law now allows for the child to be treated as though it was born to a British mother of a foreign male partner, the law is the same vice versa and so forth.

Once having received a registration of the birth documentation by the consular section, you would then be able to apply for a BRITISH PASSPORT for your child, but remember, a British passport, does not entitle automatically the right to settle and live in the United Kingdom.

PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE THE ISSUE OF NATIONALITY WITH LIVING IN THE UNITED KINGDOM.

People often confuse these issues, they are seperate, your child may be issued with a passport, but the passport may not have right of abode in the United Kingdom, you would need to check locally as regards this, should you wish to enter the United Kingdom, given the brief circumstances you outline, I am not sure what your situation is.

However good luck with your quest to get your child registered, should you require any further information, you can of course check locallly with the British Embassy.

[joebloggs]

i think registration is optional, thou there are benefits to registering. you could just try and apply for a passport.

[Cebu]

Hi Pete,
Thank you for the very informed reply.
Me and my partner are planning to marry and relocate to the UK. But we are just weighing up the options of having a baby here now or waiting until we are settled in the UK.
We have a strong history of a relationship so after marriage we hope a settlement visa will not present a problem.
Does anyone know if after a settlement visa is granted and you enter the UK would a Filipino wife be entitled to NHS treatment in terms of general treatment as well as pregnancy from the day they arrive in the UK?
Thank you again for your help.

[rusty]

When our son, Isaac, was born in the Philippines we registered him and applied for a British passport. Once we got his birth certificate and our marriage certificate from the NSO (I think it took 3 months) and all other documents required, we registered him at the British Embassy and he now has a British style birth certificate and passport, therefore, in my opinion he is British and has the right to settle here.

When they came to live with me this year, my wife entered with her spouse visa and my son with his British passport.

Your wife should be entitled to all NHS treatment as soon as she arrives here. On a cost only basis it would be better to have your baby here.

[joebloggs]

On a cost only basis it would be better to have your baby here.

something else you should be aware of, a child born in the phils, is going to be British by descent. That means that their children ... your grandchildren ... will only be British if born in the UK. If born outside the UK then they will not be British.

Compared to ... if the child is born in the UK then they will be British otherwise than by descent ... and thus their children will be British wherever born in the world.

[ginapeterb]

Hi Cebu

I understand your situation somewhat better now, it appears you live in Philippines, but are not married as yet, also your baby does not exist as yet, I thought that is what you have said.

However if your prospective wife is pregnant by the time you apply to enter the United Kingdom, then the question you posed earlier is academic, and would not apply, if your child is born in the UK, then normal procedures for registering a local birth apply, and as you as the Father are a British citizen by descent, then it should be taken for granted that your child would be entitled to a British passport.

However, some people on this forum get emotionally involved when it comes to rights of settlement, and that clouds the issues.

People who have well meaning opinions often tend to cloud the issues, the issue of settlement is far different from the issue of rights to the protection of the British Government which in fact is the only reason to obtain a British passport which is in effect a travel document.

British travel documents by nature of the very complex aspects of the former empire and those ones who may posesses a British travel document, but in reality do not have the right to settle in the UK, can sometimes be an object of frustration to those ones who assume sometimes wrongly, that being entitled to one document, then gives them the right to enter the UK and live.

For example, if you have been in a relationship for 4 years or more, then in your case, the situation is diferent, than for someone who has met recently over internet and has known each other for a limited time, say 3 months or so.

But, the matter of settling in the UK, is a matter of firstly, financial matters and seconly, accomodation matters.

This is because the UK government does not want to issue settlement visa's to people who cannot support themselves in the UK without the need to apply for state benefits to help in their living costs.

Therefore, should you wish to marry in the Philippines you may do so, and if your wife to be is pregnant, when you arrive in the UK, provided she arrives by virtue of a settlement visa in her name, then access to the National Health service is ok, and she should be able to have her baby on the NHS without paying any costs whatsoever.

Some foreigners however do arrive in the UK, and are sick at the point of entry, there have been numerous documented cases of such ones, being asked if they have insurance or other means of paying for their NHS care, some have been presented with bills of £1000.00 or more for care, however in the mainstream, its my understanding these bills are rarely paid, because the NHS is not structured for private fee paying patients.

In your case I am sure, you will be able to do this without any concerns, whatsoever, firstly though, on marriage, should you wish to return to UK, ensure that you have not been out of the country for too long, as after 12 months of being out of UK, your right to any entitlements becomes more difficult, such as Job seekers allowance and Income Support, in any event, your settlement visa would be refused if you sought to rely on those benefits.

That means, you must have a steady job in the UK, or private and independant financial means to support yourself and your wife and any child in the UK for up to 2 years, if you have plenty of savings, say in excess of £5,000 to £10,000 and can prove this, you may find that having a regular job or income may not be as important, however, having a regular job, income and proof of such will make your application for a visa for your wife and any child much easier.

Secondly, there is the matter of accomodation, the entry clearance officer who reviews your application would want to see that you can accomodate your family in the UK without attempting to rely on local housing stocks.

Again, these are questions you must ponder, and should you satisfy the requirements, then your passage back to UK should not present you with any problems, I hope it goes ok for you, and wish you well in the future.

But just a word of caution, there are thousands of people living around the world, whose children have british passports, because of the many categories of passports, it does not mean they have the right to live and work in UK.

For example, there are British protected persons, British Overseas Citizens, British commonwealth citizens, they have the protection of the British Government, but do not neccessarily live in UK.

Best wishes...


Pete

[Cebu]

Hi Pete,
Than k you for the detailed response. Your wealth of information is very, very useful to me.
I am hoping the my passage back to the UK with my wife to be will be hassle free but appreciate that these things may not necessarily go to plan or be hassle free.
I think I am covering most of the points that you mention.
1. I am in the Philippines for around 18 months and plan to marry my fiancé before I return to England, allowing around 5 months for name of fiancé’s passport to be changed and to apply for settlement / spouse visa.
2. Our relationship will be over the two year mark when I return to UK. With history of visits to Philippines and fiancé’s tourist visa to UK for 6 months.
3. I have my own home (mortgaged) in the UK and have some savings.
4. I am employed by a UK company in the Philippines and I am paying UK tax and National Insurance. I am employed by the UK company and not the Philippine branch where I am currently working. So that should not present a problem with any benefits later in life…. I assume???

The forum is good to read about other people’s experiences and this can hopefully help me and my partner through the future application process.

Thank you for your help once again.

[Cebu]

Hi Pete,
Than k you for the detailed response. Your wealth of information is very, very useful to me.
I am hoping the my passage back to the UK with my wife to be will be hassle free but appreciate that these things may not necessarily go to plan or be hassle free.
I think I am covering most of the points that you mention.
1. I am in the Philippines for around 18 months and plan to marry my fiancé before I return to England, allowing around 5 months for name of fiancé’s passport to be changed and to apply for settlement / spouse visa.
2. Our relationship will be over the two year mark when I return to UK. With history of visits to Philippines and fiancé’s tourist visa to UK for 6 months.
3. I have my own home (mortgaged) in the UK and have some savings.
4. I am employed by a UK company in the Philippines and I am paying UK tax and National Insurance. I am employed by the UK company and not the Philippine branch where I am currently working. So that should not present a problem with any benefits later in life…. I assume???

The forum is good to read about other people’s experiences and this can hopefully help me and my partner through the future application process.

Thank you for your help once again.

[brumboy]

Hi , I would welcome any advice on our situation which is similar but a little more complicated. I am living in the Philippines for some time now. Our son was born in July 2009. I am British , my partner is a Filipina still married to a filipino but undergoing annulment. We have our son's NSO birth certificate and I signed the Admission of Paternity. According to what I read on the Manila Br.Embassy website because my partner is still married to someone else I cannot apply for a British birth certificate or register him at the Embassy. Is this correct? I am so confused. Thank you.

[brumboy]

Hi , I would welcome any advice on our situation which is similar but a little more complicated. I am living in the Philippines for some time now. Our son was born in July 2009. I am British , my partner is a Filipina still married to a filipino but undergoing annulment. We have our son's NSO birth certificate and I signed the Admission of Paternity. According to what I read on the Manila Br.Embassy website because my partner is still married to someone else I cannot apply for a British birth certificate or register him at the Embassy. Is this correct? I am so confused. Thank you.

[JimOttley]

Hi , I would welcome any advice on our situation which is similar but a little more complicated. I am living in the Philippines for some time now. Our son was born in July 2009. I am British , my partner is a Filipina still married to a filipino but undergoing annulment. We have our son's NSO birth certificate and I signed the Admission of Paternity. According to what I read on the Manila Br.Embassy website because my partner is still married to someone else I cannot apply for a British birth certificate or register him at the Embassy. Is this correct? I am so confused. Thank you.

Hi exactly the same situation as you, you need a DNA test performed by a DNA testing lab that is recognised by the British Embassy in Manila we used UP in Manila (University of the Philippines)

Since 1st July 2006 any child born to a British father outside the UK is automatically a British Citizen by descent and this does confer settlement rights and entry rights to UK.

If you have signed an affidavit of paternity and have all the other documents you require then really just do the DNA test it's expensive but it proves beyond doubt.

The Embassy gave me the same spiel about the child's father, that your child's legal father is your partners husband but this is not correct.

DNA test will prove paternity but make sure the embassy will accept the labs results for legal purposes.

Our story was a long and miserable one but my daughters British passport was issued last week. :)


Contact details for UP

Maria Corazon A. De Ungria
Head of Department

Miranda Hall
University of the Philippines
Diliman
Quezon City
Metro Manila
1101

Office +63 24341574
Fax +63 29252965

It's expensive but they will do a three way test valid for any legal purpose in the Philippines cost us 60,000 peso. About 900 quid last Novemeber


Jim

[JimOttley]

But just a word of caution, there are thousands of people living around the world, whose children have british passports, because of the many categories of passports, it does not mean they have the right to live and work in UK.

For example, there are British protected persons, British Overseas Citizens, British commonwealth citizens, they have the protection of the British Government, but do not neccessarily live in UK.
Pete

You are correct in most of the cases you mention, however a British Citizen by Descent who has been issued a British passport is entitled to enter and reside in the UK.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/righttoliveinuk/


This page explains who has the right to live permanently in the United Kingdom without any immigration restrictions. This is officially known as right of abode in the United Kingdom. It means you do not need an immigration officer's permission to enter the country and may live and work here without restriction.
All British citizens have the right of abode in the United Kingdom.
Some Commonwealth citizens also have the right of abode.
If you wish to claim the right of abode, you must prove it by producing:
a United Kingdom passport describing you as a British citizen or a British subject with the right of abode; or
a United Kingdom identity card describing you as a British citizen or a British subject with the right of abode; or
a certificate of entitlement to the right of abode in the United Kingdom that has been issued by the Government of the United Kingdom or on its behalf.
Information about obtaining a United Kingdom passport is available from the Identity and Passport Service.
If you are not sure whether you have the right of abode, you may phone us for advice on 0845 010 5200.


http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/righttoliveinuk/claimrightofabode/


This page explains the purpose of a certificate of entitlement to right of abode. For an explanation of right of abode and who can claim it, see who has the right to live in the United Kingdom?
A certificate of entitlement to right of abode in the United Kingdom is proof of your right to live and work in the United Kingdom without any immigration restrictions. The certificate will be issued only if you have right of abode but do not have another way of proving it, for example a United Kingdom passport or identity card showing you to be a British citizen or British subject with right of abode.
The certificate is placed in a valid passport and expires when the passport expires. To have a certificate in your new passport, you must apply for one again.
If you have a certificate that was issued after 21 December 2006, it can be withdrawn if we find out that you no longer qualify for one or if an official order is made to remove your right of abode.
How to apply for a certificate of entitlement to right of abode.


The primary restriction on a British Citizen by Descent is that they cannot pass their nationality to the children unless the kids are born in the UK.

Jim

[IainBusby]

Hi , I would welcome any advice on our situation which is similar but a little more complicated. I am living in the Philippines for some time now. Our son was born in July 2009. I am British , my partner is a Filipina still married to a filipino but undergoing annulment. We have our son's NSO birth certificate and I signed the Admission of Paternity. According to what I read on the Manila Br.Embassy website because my partner is still married to someone else I cannot apply for a British birth certificate or register him at the Embassy. Is this correct? I am so confused. Thank you.

If your spending any time in Phils whilst your gf's annulment is going through, you should be careful with regard to the fact that you have admitted paternity and to be more precise, with her (not quite) ex finding out that you have admitted paternity. The reason I say this is that in the Philippines you could be arrested and thrown in jail for adultery.

It may be very unlikely that this would happen, but where a foriegner is involved, cash registers start ringing in peoples ears and especially in (not quite) ex husbands ears. I can't find it on here, but there was a case where this actually happened not too long ago.

Iain.

[JimOttley]

If your spending any time in Phils whilst your gf's annulment is going through, you should be careful with regard to the fact that you have admitted paternity and to be more precise, with her (not quite) ex finding out that you have admitted paternity. The reason I say this is that in the Philippines you could be arrested and thrown in jail for adultery.

It may be very unlikely that this would happen, but where a foriegner is involved, cash registers start ringing in peoples ears and especially in (not quite) ex husbands ears. I can't find it on here, but there was a case where this actually happened not too long ago.

Iain.

Yes very good point, British lad living in Las Pinas a couple of years back, not rich, got thrown in jail because hubby wanted the traditional million peso ransom.

If I remember correctly he went on the run with his partner and his child, very sad.

I'll try and find the link to the Daily Mail article.


Jim

[JimOttley]

I could not find the original article that I read last year but I think this is the chap you meant.

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/tag/cynthia-delfino/

[IainBusby]

I could not find the original article that I read last year but I think this is the chap you meant.

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/tag/cynthia-delfino/

Yea that's the one, but he's not the first and he probably won't be the last one to find himself in this situation.

[bystander09]

My eldest born in Abu Dhabi, a son and daughter born in the Philippines.. :doh

Yes you can pass on your nationality to your kids born in the Philippines as long as you are legally married to your wife.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

The embassy will need

1. Original marriage contract/licence etc..

2. Your original passport

3. Your wifes original birth certificate

4. The new born baby's original bith certificate


bystander

[JimOttley]

Yes you can pass on your nationality to your kids born in the Philippines as long as you are legally married to your wife.:xxgrinning--00xx3:
bystander

You can pass your nationality even if you are not legally married since 1st July 2006.


Jim

[fred]

A mate asked me this yesterday..He has a newborn in Leyte somewhere..Not married..He calls the foreign office and they tell him that the kid can not get a Brit Passport and has no rights even if he,the father is a Brit(which he is)..
Why are they giving this kind of advice??

[joebloggs]

they probably don't know the law has changed, or are unaware what the law is :doh, i think you have to register within a year of the childs birth.

from my experience with phoning UKBA, phone 3 times, you can get 3 different answers to your questions :icon_lol:

was your friend born in the uk ? if not he might have got his British passport thru descent. so his children born outside the uk will not be British.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/eligibility/children/britishcitizen/borntobritishfather/
Since 1 July 2006 both parents are able to pass on their British citizenship to their children even if they are not married providing there is satisfactory evidence of paternity. We will normally register any child born before 1 July 2006 to a father who is a British citizen father under section 3(1) if the requirements below are met:

* we are satisfied about the paternity of the child; and
* we have the consent of all those with parental responsibility; and
* we are satisfied that if the parents were married:

- the child would have an automatic claim to British citizenship; or
- the child would have an entitlement to registration under sections 1(3), 3(2) or sections 3(5) of the British Nationality Act 1981; or
- we would normally have registered the child under section 3(1); and

* if the child is over 10 year of age, they are of good character.

In these circumstances, registration under section 3(1) of the British Nationality Act would be at our discretion, if we think it is reasonable under the circumstances.

To be satisfied of the child's paternity we would usually expect you to provide:

* a birth certificate issued within one year of the child's birth naming the child's father; or
* any other evidence such as DNA test reports or court orders relevant to paternity.

If you are unable to provide the above evidence, we will normally accept that a man is the father of a child if:

* paternity has been acknowledged in some other official context, for example if the child was born abroad and the relationship has been accepted for United Kingdom immigration purposes; or
* he has stated that he is the father and we have confirmation of that from the mother, providing there is no evidence to suggest that their evidence is false.

[fred]

He was born in Holland on a British airforce base to English parents..After that he lived in England his whole life. He has a Brit passport of course and he cannot live without roast dinners!

[fred]

Thanks Joe...I`ll email your post to him..

[joebloggs]

He was born in Holland on a British airforce base to English parents..After that he lived in England his whole life. He has a Brit passport of course and he cannot live without roast dinners!

now you've got me :doh
that might be the reason why, i know there are some differences in immigration law if your in the armed forces,

but i don't know if your friend is British by descent or otherwise:Erm: if he is british by decent, i don't think his child is British by birth :NoNo:

he needs to find out :rolleyes: thou to me, as he's not born in the uk, it looks like hes British by descent.

but he could have been born in a qualifying territory, airbase ??

[fred]

Well his Mother and Father are both English so I suppose he must be British by decent!! I assumed that if you are born to a Brit father in military service on a British military/air base then that is that!!
I have no idea why that should make a difference to this new kid though???

[bystander09]

You can pass your nationality even if you are not legally married since 1st July 2006.


Jim

Hi Jim..:Hellooo:

Thanks for the update. I married my wife in the Phils back in 1986, and the kids are now in 20, 18 and 16..:Erm: With a solid relationship for 20 plus years, and my work taking us to the USA, Europe, and the Middle East. We still had a hard time with the ***holes at the British Embassy in Manila. Some absolute ****head of a woman insisting that we "demostrate a sustainable" relationship... :Brick:

I was at the time working for a British multinational in the Philippines, and a member of the British Chamber of Commerce.

Eventually I asked for another advisor to review my wifes case. From that moment on things went well. We came back to the UK in 2005. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I guess the point here is, just how absolutely **itty some of the people at the embassy can be, and just how dauniting the visa process can be. :Brick:

bystander

[IainBusby]

Hi Jim..:Hellooo:

Thanks for the update. I married my wife in the Phils back in 1986, and the kids are now in 20, 18 and 16..:Erm: With a solid relationship for 20 plus years, and my work taking us to the USA, Europe, and the Middle East. We still had a hard time with the ***holes at the British Embassy in Manila. Some absolute ****head of a woman insisting that we "demostrate a sustainable" relationship... :Brick:

I was at the time working for a British multinational in the Philippines, and a member of the British Chamber of Commerce.

Eventually I asked for another advisor to review my wifes case. From that moment on things went well. We came back to the UK in 2005. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I guess the point here is, just how absolutely **itty some of the people at the embassy can be, and just how dauniting the visa process can be. :Brick:

bystander

It wasn't the imfamous Jacquie was it?

[JimOttley]

Well his Mother and Father are both English so I suppose he must be British by decent!! I assumed that if you are born to a Brit father in military service on a British military/air base then that is that!!
I have no idea why that should make a difference to this new kid though???

Interesting point, I think a child born to 2 British parents will be British otherwise than by descent, i.e. just British.

If he is classed as being by descent then he cannot pass British nationality on to his children unless they are born in the UK.


Jim

[JimOttley]

Well his Mother and Father are both English so I suppose he must be British by decent!! I assumed that if you are born to a Brit father in military service on a British military/air base then that is that!!
I have no idea why that should make a difference to this new kid though???

I had a look around and it would appear that even when both parents are British, being a child born abroad removes the ability for the child to pass on British citizenship if they subsequently have children of their own outside the UK.

It's a bit of a fine distinction but one that you would need to make sure a kid understood when they grew up, people are a lot more mobile these days.

[joebloggs]

the father was born in the Netherlands, but would it be correct to assume the father has lived in the UK for at least 3 years??? Assuming the answer to that is yes, you will see that the flowchart takes us to ..... "The child is entitled to be registered as a British citizen under s.3(2) within 1 year (Note 3) of the birth (see Chapter 10)."

So no, the newly born child is not currently British, but a form MN1 should be completed and submitted, before the child's 1st birth .... and note there is an entitlement for the child to be Registered as British.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/nationalityinstructions/nichapter4/ch4annexd?view=Binary

(from john the guy who knows ) :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[JimOttley]

A quick question if anyone could help please. Would a baby born in the Philippines to a Filipino mother British father be entitled to a UK passport?

Also can someone explain the situation regarding birth certificates in the Philippines. I have heard rumours the original needs to be NSO (?) approved and this can take a year before a baby can get a passport of any description, Philippines or UK.

Can anyone advise on therse points please.

Thank you for your help.

Best wishes to all.

For British embassy purposes it needs to be an official NSO document, it won't take a year if you filled in all the relevant papers at the hospital when your baby was born.

We got our daughters Philippine passport when she was 6 months old, the only reason we bothered was because it was fairly easy and because we thought it would help with out daughters UK passport application. I think it did help in the end.

From applying for our daughters birth registration and UK passport at the British embassy, it took 8 months for our case to be approved but we had special difficult circumstances, I think it would usually be a lot quicker.


Jim

[fred]

So you sure there are not special provisions made for UK servicemen and women serving abroad for HRM???
I wonder if they are told that their future rights as a British citizen are diminished when serving God and country??

[joebloggs]

fred has your friend lived in the uk more than 3yrs?

[fred]

fred has your friend lived in the uk more than 3yrs?

About 45 years would be my guess Joe.

[joebloggs]

i take it the child's grandfather were British?, and he was serving in the UK armed forces at the time of his birth. I am also assuming that the grandfather and grandmother were married at the time of their child's birth?.if so

Sect. 14(2) of the BNA 1981 stipulates that a British child born abroad before the 1981 Act came in to force (1.1.83) shall not be "by descent" where the conferring parent was in Crown Service; i.e. he will be "otherwise than by descent".

so he can pass on his citzenship to the bb, and the bb should be 'british by descent' !

what refusal reason are the embassy giving fred ?

i'm sure they don't know what they are talking about sometimes, if hes lived in the uk 3yrs or the above his bb is british by descent.

[fred]

ok thanks again joe...i ll use this thread for a reference of advice as and when he needs it...cheers.

[scottishbride]

We were very fortunate, our daughter was just born after the new law (JUly 2006) with regards to the child's entitlement to a British passport. We registered her and applied for her British passport at the same time, it took 10 days to receive her British birth certificate and passport, you need to handover the NSO copy of the birth certificate of the child (it took NSO 6 months to issue us the document).

[arisdavid]

Hi,
My child was born on september 18th 2009,

In the child's NSO certificate does it need to show that the father's citizenship is British (in the NSO they put my citizenship as Filipino instead of British, and I am in the process of taking legal actions to correct their CLERICAL MISTAKE). The lawyer advised me that it will take 4-6 months, and I can't wait that long to get my child here in the UK. All documentations that I need are collated thanks to the guidance of people in this forum!

Are Passport copies and Naturalisation Ceritificate enough evidence to support that the father of the child is British.