Somtimes life is not so good

[JimOttley]

I'm a Scot based in England my family is in Las Pinas Manila and life right now is absolutley desparate :(

Apparently I joined this forum some time ago but I had forgotten so this is my first post.

Software developer, own business, business died as a result of the credit crunch and recession, very sudden, main customer withdrew verbal contract with no notice, not their fault just life.

I met my partner nearly 5 years ago, we have two wonderful kids and I love my family and my extended family dearly.

I'll try and find a relevant thread to tell our story but basically we are still stuck, British Embassy is putting hurdle after hurdle in our path, not all their fault but a lot of it is unreasonable given our cirumstances :(

Regards
Jim

[bornatbirth]

hi and welcome!

are you guys married yet?

what seems to be the problem?

[joebloggs]

:cwm24: sorry to hear it..
i take it your wife and kids are still in the phils then, have you applied for a visa for them ?

[MarBell379]

Tell your story, chap. There might just be people here who can help, and there'll certainly be many who will offer advice

[Tawi2]

Jim,as long as your healthy,likewise your wife and family then its never as bad as it seems mate,things have a habit of coming good,you wont be in this situation forever,it will work out,if theres a specific problem you can elaborate on I am sure there are members of this forum who will have faced similar and can share experiences and advise.

[kimmi]

hi Jim welcome to the forum..:D dont hesitate to share wit us you rstory who knows some of our members here have the same story with u..

Just have faith..

[KeithD]

hi Jim welcome to the forum...
....as we are all nosey buggers :D

[kimmi]

....as we are all nosey buggers :D

but who knows we can be of great help:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

[Tawi2]

....as we are all nosey buggers :D
That as well,but I always say a problem shared is a problem halved is a problem solved :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

I'm a Scot based in England my family is in Las Pinas Manila and life right now is absolutley desparate :(

Apparently I joined this forum some time ago but I had forgotten so this is my first post.

Software developer, own business, business died as a result of the credit crunch and recession, very sudden, main customer withdrew verbal contract with no notice, not their fault just life.

I met my partner nearly 5 years ago, we have two wonderful kids and I love my family and my extended family dearly.

I'll try and find a relevant thread to tell our story but basically we are still stuck, British Embassy is putting hurdle after hurdle in our path, not all their fault but a lot of it is unreasonable given our cirumstances :(

Regards
Jim

Ahhh, Jim ... as an "exiled Jock" :Kilt: domiciled south of the Border, you have good reason to feel a bit depressed. :joke: Mind you, at least you've HAD some "summery" weather, so things can't be ALL bad!

But seriously, my friend, you've clearly gone through a rough time business-wise. We're truly sorry to learn this, and would dearly like to offer guidance in whatever way we can. First though, we really need to know more about your circumstances and how they relate to the problems you're currently experiencing with the British Embassy.

So, if you'd be prepared to provide us with some backgound information as regards your story - either on THIS thread, or posted under the section entitled 'Your Blog' - then perhaps we can "set the ball rolling" :football3: ...

[Tawi2]

:cwm24: Depressed south of the border Arthur?Surely you jest :icon_lol:

[JimOttley]

Thanks folks.

Not married yet because my partner was previously married to a Korean 14 years ago and got divorced in Korea in 1997. She came back to the Phils in 2000 but ran out of money while trying to process her papers.

She lost her citizenship back then as a result of several things that happened while she was in Korea, for a long time she thought she was stateless, we only got her citizenship restored 2 years ago under the repatriation law that allows for Filipina's who lost their nationality by marriage to a foreigner to regain citizenship after divorce from said foreigner.

We also established that she had rights to Korean nationality as well so she is now a dual national.

Amongst a whole load of other problems she is still not officially recognised as divorced by the Philippine authorities so she cannot get a Philippine passport. The kids have passports but we have not yet been able to take them out of the country, also my partner has been here in the UK once, travelling on her Korean passport (no visa problems for Korean's, dead easy to visit the UK without a visa).

The complications come in because my son is not my biological son but my daughter who was borm last year is, I love my wee boy to bits it does not matter that he is not mine, I have been there since before he was born and
I will always be his dad. I met his real granny on the fathers side at my son's christening and she was a very nice lady who was obviously quite distressed by it all (her son is in another relationship and never knew about the baby) but she did check me out and decided that I was a good man who could be trusted to look after her grandson, she has very sensibly stayed out of our lives ever since.

Current problem is this -

My partners original divorce document from Korea was lost by her first lawyer between 2000 and 2005, the guy was absolutely useless. As a result my partner is not yet acknowledged as being officially divorced in the Philippines. Also due to some crazy rules regarding passport applications this means that she can't get a Philippine passport. Getting a replacement divorce document from Korea has been a nightmare but we have finally managed that, my partner is currently in Korea but will be returning to the Phils in a month or so.

British Embassy - Last Christmas we made enquiries at the embassy in Manila to get my new daughter’s birth registered with the UK authorities, she is entitled to this because she was born after 1st July 2006 when the law was changed to allow children born overseas to an unmarried British father to be recognised as British citizens by descent.

The embassy advised us that the best and simplest way to prove paternity for the purpose of registering our daughters birth was to get a DNA test done. After a lot of searching we eventually managed to get this test conducted by a lab at UP (University of the Philippines) none of the hospitals we checked had the ability to perform a DNA test and unfortunatley UP is very expensive, in the end it cost us 60,000 peso at a time when we were getting 67 peso to the pound, so in all it cost close to 900 pounds (all three of us were tested my partner, my daughter and me) but at least UP is a recognised authority for DNA testing for legal purposes.

So we did all this and I had to make two trips near the end of last year to manage all this, then when we went to the embassy to fill in all the papers, right at the last minute the consul takes me off to the interview room and says they can't do it because technically my partner was still married to the Korean whom she had last seen in a Korean court in 1997.

According to the British embassy both of our kids are technically his. So he is divorced 12 years ago and gets to go and live his life and do what he wants, marry again etc. and yet my partner is still viewed as being married to him 12 years later because the Philippine authorities won't issue her a passport in her own name and as a result she is effectivley a prisoner in her own country.

So tell me this, when the law states (British law) that an unmarried British father that has a child with a foreigner abroad, is entitled to have that child registered as a British citizen and that the child is entitled to a British passport and the paternity has been proved beyond doubt, how can they say that my child is the daughter of some Korean that I have never met. What more do they need than a DNA test.

Oh and the British embassy quite happily pocketed about 200 pounds of our money before they decided to tell us this.

I am bitter about this mainly because the embassy renegaded on the advice that they provided to us prior to our application when we had been completely honest and up front with them and explained everything in great detail to them before we made the application.

Since then I lost my business (thank god I managed to get a job) lost my home in Scotland, my partner has had to go to Korea to try to find work to help support the kids (used my air miles for that) and to try to get the remaining papers we need. The kids are being looked after by my partners mum (who should not have that burden at her age).

So just depressed generally.

The thing I really need advice on now is formal adoption of my son and that is why I am here in this forum as I hoped maybe some of you have been through this process. When I first met my partner I did something silly which is that I allowed my name to go on my sons birth certificate, but when you deal with the authorities like the British embassy they check things like when you first visited the Philippines and it would have been obvious to them that I could not be his biological father so we had to be honest with the embassy about that.

So I have to formally adopt my boy in order to get him into the UK and I have no idea how easy or how hard that might be and I don't know where to start so any advice would be most welcome.

I am just so depressed about everything right now as the time it's taking to resolve all these issues is putting a great strain on our relationship and given our financial circumstances it's becoming imperitive that I get all of us together in one place as we just can't afford supporting a home in Manila and a home for me in the UK any more :(

I feel like an OFW even though I'm British, I work in the UK and support my family back in the phils but now I will only get home to be with them maybe once a year if I'm lucky. I would far rather be living in the Phils but I cannot get work there and of course until we actually get married it's very hard for me to stay there for any length of time.

In the last five years I've spent around 330 days with my partner and around 290 days together as a family I talk with my partner every day and as I said I love my family very much and miss them terribly. I really need my family here with me in UK so I can work hard and look after them so that we can have a life because we sure as hell don't have one now.

[Arthur Little]

... if you'd be prepared to provide us with some backgound information as regards your story - either on THIS thread, or posted under the section entitled 'Your Blog' - then perhaps we can "set the ball rolling" :football3: ...

... in the meantime, I should like to extend a personal Welcome on your return to the forum. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

:cwm24: Depressed south of the border Arthur?Surely you jest :icon_lol:

:icon_lol: I kid you NOT, mate! What with the "Freedom of the Whole of Scotland" at my bidding ... thanks to the [again FREE] Bus Pass ... courtesy of the Scottish Parliament ... why should I complain? :rolleyes:

Pity this privilege is marred by the :piss2:ing awful Perth weather (from which the rest of the country has SEEMINGLY - for the most part - managed to escape) though!

[JimOttley]

... in the mentime, I should like to extend a personal Welcome on your return to the forum. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Thanks Arthur :)

It is particularly hard to be living in England when I had lived my entire life in Scotland and for the last 10 years had a lovely house in Langbank and got to look over the Clyde at Dumbarton Rock every time I set off to visit a customer and every time I came home.

I really miss that these days.

Anyway I posted my story above and it appears to be visible now (I'm restricted because I'm a newbie here)

Jim.

[joebloggs]

Thanks Arthur :)

Anyway I posted my story above and it appears to be visible now (I'm restricted because I'm a newbie here)

Jim.

yes your right there, if by magic..:D

i'm not so sure they would have noticed that your not the bio father, you could have said you had lost your passport, honestly is not always the best policy, especially when you dug yourself in a hole. but you did the right thing telling them, specially in your g/f circumstances.

did you tell them about your son, then try to register for your daughter and then they asked for a DNA test for her?

why register your daughter, you should have applied for a passport

[Mrs Daddy]

I dont know what to say am sorry to hear that:doh

[JimOttley]

yes your right there, if by magic..:D

i'm not so sure they would have noticed that your not the bio father, you could have said you had lost your passport, honestly is not always the best policy, especially when you dug yourself in a hole. but you did the right thing telling them, specially in your g/f circumstances.

did you tell them about your son, then try to register for your daughter and then they asked for a DNA test for her?

why register your daughter, you should have applied for a passport

They require to see all passports and they specifically wanted to see James' birth certificate as it's one of the things they check for as it can show up cases where a woman is already married or still married to someone in the Phils, they do this to weed out the cases where the Filipina is really just using some guy to try to get a free pass to work overseas.

Also remember that you need to be able to establish proof of relationship and your passport is one of the main documents that will support that. Plus I was in Manila in person so it was pretty obvious I had my passport :) Although I had to supply my old one as it had just expired as well as my new passport.

Also it is my understanding that to apply for a British passport for my daughter I had to register her birth first so that they would acknowlege her rights as a British citizen.

In our case when they asked for James birth certificate as well as my daughters I did not want to take the chance of being found out so I had to explain our true circumstances.

[JimOttley]

yes your right there, if by magic..:D

i'm not so sure they would have noticed that your not the bio father, you could have said you had lost your passport, honestly is not always the best policy, especially when you dug yourself in a hole. but you did the right thing telling them, specially in your g/f circumstances.

did you tell them about your son, then try to register for your daughter and then they asked for a DNA test for her?

why register your daughter, you should have applied for a passport

Sorry I meant to add, we applied to register our daughter and applied for a passport for her at the same time that's why they took a couple of hundred unrefundable quid off us.

The application was all for our daughter we were not even looking to apply for a visa for James at that point and we could not apply for a fiancee visa because of the missing orignal notorised copy of the divorce certificate.

If we had gotten the passport for our daughter then all we needed was a visa for James and then we could have had the whole of the summer together in the UK while still waiting for the copy of the divorce document to come back from Korea, there is still a load of legal process that we have to go through in Manila to get my partners marriage annuled by the Philippine authorities that is going to take a fair while before we can apply for a fiancee visa to get married in the UK.

My partner can get into the UK for up to 6 months at a time on her Korean passport and if our daughter had her British passport then all we needed was a visa for my son, at least we would have been together while we wait for all the other stuff to get processed.


Jim

[joebloggs]

i'm sure registration of a child is not a requirement, but optional.
and as for the DNA test , that's only used as a last resort:NoNo:
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/settlement/children#18165823

If it appears that an illegitimate child has been brought up as a child of the family, it will normally be appropriate to admit the child under paragraph 297(i)(f). The fact that the sponsor may not be aware that the child is not his natural child should not preclude entry clearance.

but like you said, they would want to see your passport, but would they have noticed, the date ?, or if you had lost or had it stolen. maybe the birth cert would have been enough, but far better if you was married to her.

have you had legal advice yet ? your local law centre and http://www.iasuk.org/home.aspx

i would have thought first thing to do would be getting your daughter her passport, seek legal advice from the above, and contact your MP, i've never heard anything so stupid, that you've had a DNA test and proved its your daughter, they are refusing to give her a passport.

wait for your g/f annulment to come thru, wed in the phils and apply for a settlement visa for your wife and son, you would be legally his stepfather, so really no need to adopt him, the only thing is you mention that your g/f has left her kids in the phils? to work in Korea, be careful of 'sole responsibility' that your g/f needs to prove with regards to her kids.

also if your g/f can come here for 6 months, is it not possible she can extend her stay, apply for a student visa? it would cost you money, but if you lived together and if no annulment yet, after 2yrs maybe you could apply for a unmarried partner visa.

or even if you could go and live in a european country exercise your treaty rights ( employed or self employed) after 3 months see if you can apply for a family permit for your g/f as a 'extended family member' then take her back to that european country with you,as different countries interpret the meaning of a 'durable relationship' differently (uk i think its 2yrs living together)

just waffling on, you need legal advice which is the best way forward for you..

[JimOttley]

i'm sure registration of a child is not a requirement, but optional.
and as for the DNA test , that's only used as a last resort:NoNo:
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/settlement/children#18165823

If it appears that an illegitimate child has been brought up as a child of the family, it will normally be appropriate to admit the child under paragraph 297(i)(f). The fact that the sponsor may not be aware that the child is not his natural child should not preclude entry clearance.

but like you said, they would want to see your passport, but would they have noticed, the date ?, or if you had lost or had it stolen. maybe the birth cert would have been enough, but far better if you was married to her.

have you had legal advice yet ? your local law centre and http://www.iasuk.org/home.aspx

i would have thought first thing to do would be getting your daughter her passport, seek legal advice from the above, and contact your MP, i've never heard anything so stupid, that you've had a DNA test and proved its your daughter, they are refusing to give her a passport.

wait for your g/f annulment to come thru, wed in the phils and apply for a settlement visa for your wife and son, you would be legally his stepfather, so really no need to adopt him, the only thing is you mention that your g/f has left her kids in the phils? to work in Korea, be careful of 'sole responsibility' that your g/f needs to prove with regards to her kids.

also if your g/f can come here for 6 months, is it not possible she can extend her stay, apply for a student visa? it would cost you money, but if you lived together and if no annulment yet, after 2yrs maybe you could apply for a unmarried partner visa.

or even if you could go and live in a european country exercise your treaty rights ( employed or self employed) after 3 months see if you can apply for a family permit for your g/f as a 'extended family member' then take her back to that european country with you,as different countries interpret the meaning of a 'durable relationship' differently (uk i think its 2yrs living together)

just waffling on, you need legal advice which is the best way forward for you..

Yes I agree, I think I really need legal advice.

My partner is 36 years old but while she is an incredibly sweet and loving woman she is not the smartest lassie in the world, chances of getting a student Visa would be somewhere around zero :)

I had wondered about marrying in the Phils versus marrying in the UK I had always thought that getting a fiancee visa to get married in the UK would be easier long term.

I should explain that the reason my partner is abroad in Korea just now is to secure the remaining documents that we need in order to get her marriage annulled in the Phils, she is also trying to earn money to help me support the kids.

At 36 years of age in the Phils she has close to zero chance of getting any paid work, they almost ask for a college degree for working at supermarket checkout these days and it certainly is not easy to get that kind of job if you are over 30.

If anything happened to me, the entire family would be destitute, I have provided all of the financial support for my partner, our kids, granny and one of my partners sisters who lives with us, for the last 5 years.

So to me, we have already been living together as husband and wife for 5 years my partner and my kids have been fully financially dependant on me for all of that time.

She has been in Korea since April as it turned out she had to have a Korean Residential ID ie. a Korean address to get the copies of the documents we need but although she is working as a waitress and earning reasonable money, she is horribly depressed just now and really missing the kids.

We just secured the divorce document a couple of weeks ago at the Korean Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade in Seoul and have had that processed by the Philippine embassy in Seoul but we need additional notorised copies for the British Embassy in Manila and for our own laywer (a good friend) in Manila. But we are out of cash just now and it's going to cost another 200 pounds to get those documents in Korea so we just have to wait another few weeks till we get some money, once she has those documents I've told her she can go back to Manila so she should be back home with the kids by mid September hopefully.

We have plenty of proof of a durable relationship I have all the receipts for support money I have sent, copies of all our bills rent, electric etc. copies of communications my Skype call logs, you name it I've got it :)

Thanks for that link I will check it out in detail later tonight and thanks for the various options that does help me think about things from a different angle as I've been very focused on a particular approach for a long time.

My biggest problem right now is that with the cut in income resulting from me losing my business is that I just don't have the money anymore, I need to feed my kids and keep a roof over their heads and while I do send a lot more than many Filipino families have to get by on, I am really only sending barely enough for a decent standard of living for my kids.

The fiancee visa or spouse visa costs in the region of 500 quid I think while that was easy for me to get once upon a time, it's going to take a load of saving now, that's why I am getting desparate now as I just feel I have run out of time.

The only other thing I havent already mentioned is I've been back in touch with the British embassy in Manila to ask for an update as they were supposed to have been referring our case to London and I had no reply from them for several months, hopefully they will get back to me.

So I suppose if I still get no response from the embassy I will have to find out who my MP is and write to them as you are dead right it's a disgrace that they are refusing to acknowlege my daughters citizenship.

Thanks again sir!


Jim

[joebloggs]

i would have thought marrying would be easier, than the fiancée visa, easier for your son to come, as he would be a dependent of your wife, also you would be his step father, rather than just a dependant of your fiancée, also your wife could work virtually straight away on a spouse visa. and a wedding as you know is cheaper in the phils :D

where did your g/f get married in korea or the phils? is your son not entitled to apply for a Korean passport ? why does your g/f need a phil passport?

sorry so many questions :doh

[JimOttley]

i would have thought marrying would be easier, than the fiancée visa, easier for your son to come, as he would be a dependent of your wife, also you would be his step father, rather than just a dependant of your fiancée, also your wife could work virtually straight away on a spouse visa. and a wedding as you know is cheaper in the phils :D

where did your g/f get married in korea or the phils? is your son not entitled to apply for a Korean passport ? why does your g/f need a phil passport?

sorry so many questions :doh

No problem I appreciate your help. (BTW I think a couple of my earlier posts are still waiting approval)

She was married in 1995 in the Phils and then divorced in 1997 in Korea however the relationship only lasted a couple of months in Korea as the guy treated her like a housemaid almost immediately after she arrived there.

It would probably have been easier if she had originally married in Korea as the Philippine authorities would have been much less involved but as it stands right now marriage in the Phils is blocked until the Philippine authorities acknowlege her divorce and I have already paid our lawyer in the Phils for the required processing but it could take a year or more and she will require to be present in Manila for the various hearings, hence the reason she is returning to Manila next month.

I do not think that my son has any rights in relation to Korea, his real father is Filipino. We were very lucky to get the help that we already received from the Korean embassy in Manila which resulted in my partner getting her Korean passport but by the time we managed that they were pretty much fed up doing us any favours. We had a couple of really good Filipino friends that helped us enormously when we were dealing with the Korean embassy and they pretty much said that we had gotten everything we could possibly get from the Koreans.

As it stands at the moment I am not even sure that we could get the neccessary legal capacity document (CENOMAR) from the NSO in Manila for my partner, so even the fiancee visa would probably be out of the question and as I am sure you know there is no such thing as real divorce in the Philippines, the only way to do it is via an annullment but luckily that is allowed in the case of a disolved marriage to a foreigner.


, also your wife could work virtually straight away on a spouse visa. and a wedding as you know is cheaper in the phils :D


Wherever we get married it will be a short and private civil service and as cheap as possible. :) For both of us it is just a legal formality, we are tired and we just want the right to be together.

The reason for getting her a Philippine passport is just pragmatism, it was suggested to us by the British embassy that the fact she could not get a passport in her own name from the Philippine authorities supported their view that my partner was still married to the Korean, this was in spite of us submitting a document from the Korean embassy that certified her civil status in Korea.

Basically it all boils down to this, the British embassy in Manila don't care about her civil staus in Korea they only care about her civil staus in the Phils and because of the complex laws surrounding disolution of a marriage in the Phils that status is not clear and the lack of a Philippine passport is seen as proof of that lack of clarity. (Both of our kids have Philippine passports that was reasonably easy to do)

They are also deliberatly choosing to ignore the obvious unfairness of her position, in that she is divorced in Korea and the ex-husband is free to do as he pleases however she is still deemed to be married to a man she has not seen in 12 years by virtue of making the mistake of getting married in the Phils in the first place.

The refusal to acknowlege my daughters application for birth registration and passport follows on from this deliberate stance being taken by the British embassy.

I would have challenged all of this back in January while I was in Manila but I ran out of time as the refusal happened a couple of days before I had to fly back to the UK.

One thing I did wonder about was the possibility of getting married in Korea as my partner would be able to show legal capacity to marry in Korea as a Korean citizen but then we have the problem of turning up in Manila and possibly being treated as bigamists, I just don't know and I think you are right, I need legal advice.

That IAS link you posted earlier was really good as I did not know about that organisation, at least I did not know that they could help us, I will call them next week after I get paid maybe they will be able to give me some detailed help.

Regards getting married in Manila and being treated as my son's stepfather I do see your point but in the UKBA link that you gave me it says -

"a parent" includes

(a) the stepfather of a child whose father is dead and the reference to stepfather includes a relationship arising through civil partnership;

James' real father is not dead he just doesn't know he has a son, my partner is a good woman but she has had a hard and sometimes very sad life and James was conceived when she was on the rebound after the breakup of a very long term relationship. She intentionally concealed James from this man as he was in a relationship already and the consequences to his relationship could have been disasterous, she had known this man for a long time they were childhood sweethearts.

Adoption for James would definately give me parental responsibility for him and the main reason I was thinking that way is that this is what the British embassy suggested to me when they interviewed me and refused my daughers passport application.

Again I think you are right, I need legal advice and the IAS looks like a good starting point, that is what i was missing I just needed to know where to start asking in this country.

I know it seems like a bit late in the day (5 years) before I've started looking at this but as you can see we have had so many other things to take care of first that I have just been a bit overwhelmned. :(

It also didn't help that our first laywer in the Phils wasted our first 2 years and failed to get either the citizenship or anullment issues dealt with. :(

One last thing, on my side of the equation there are no problems I've never been married I can easily get proof of legal capacity to marry.

I do also have a daughter in the UK who is now 23 years old and I have supported her all these years right up till her recent graduation from Uni, always wanted to get married to her mum but after three proposals three acceptances and then three changes of heart from her mother I eventually gave up and just tried to be the best father I could be.

I've spent my entire life living alone, meeting the true love of my life was entirely unexpected when I was 45 years old but has been the best thing that has ever happened to me, having a new baby daughter when I was aged 49 was also a bit of a surprise but a very welcome one :)

Anyway thanks for your help!


Jim

[JimOttley]

....as we are all nosey buggers :D

:) no problem I understand.

[JimOttley]

also your wife could work virtually straight away on a spouse visa.

I forgot to mention that we won't be able to afford for her to work after she gets here, as she would not be able to earn enough in any job I can think of here that would pay enough to cover the childcare costs of looking after two kids.

My family in the UK are all dead no grandparents to look after the kids

So although she wants to work that will only be possible once both of our kids are at school and that is 4 years away for my daughter.




Jim.

[joebloggs]

I forgot to mention that we won't be able to afford for her to work after she gets here, as she would not be able to earn enough in any job I can think of here that would pay enough to cover the childcare costs of looking after two kids.

My family in the UK are all dead no grandparents to look after the kids

So although she wants to work that will only be possible once both of our kids are at school and that is 4 years away for my daughter.




Jim.

if your earning, i think its less than £50k a year then the gov may pay upto i think its 85% of child care costs, you may also get tax credits, and you will get child benefit each month, its not alot about £132 a month for the both of them, but you'll get that no matter what you earn.

my misses works part time and most of the child care costs for my 2 kids are paid by the gov.

also once your daughter gets to 3yrs old, she is entitled to 12.5hrs of nursery care free of charge.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/TaxCreditsandChildBenefit/index.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/payments-entitlement/entitlement/question-how-much.htm tax cred calculator

[bystander09]

Hi Jim,

You have many issues to address; the most pressing in my opinion is your financial stability in the UK. This will be an barrier to bringing your wife to the UK once the log-jam of other issues is sorted. You have to demonstrate sufficient income etc to support your wife/family. In addition this will solve your current family support problems and take some heat out of the situation.

You are going to need money to sort these problems out.

The embassy in Manila can be a real pain. I married my wife back in 1987 in Manila. We then moved to Dubai until 1992; we then lived for 13 years in the Philippines where I worked for a multinational US based company. In 2005; when the kids came up to college age, we decided to move to the UK.

Even with this background the embassy insisted that we provide evidence of a "sustainable relationship"..!!:doh

Just hang in there, deal with one issue at a time, and above all DO NOT lose you cool..!! :)


bystander

[JimOttley]

if your earning, i think its less than £50k a year then the gov may pay upto i think its 85% of child care costs, you may also get tax credits, and you will get child benefit each month, its not alot about £132 a month for the both of them, but you'll get that no matter what you earn.

my misses works part time and most of the child care costs for my 2 kids are paid by the gov.

also once your daughter gets to 3yrs old, she is entitled to 12.5hrs of nursery care free of charge.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/TaxCreditsandChildBenefit/index.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/payments-entitlement/entitlement/question-how-much.htm tax cred calculator

Ah I didnt know that, thanks.

I earn exactly that much though :)

[britishdetained]

I understand how you feel about the embassy and like as they were saying they still categorise that your daugther is your missus ex-husband. we are on the same boat few years ago... i was married to an american and was already divorsed in the stes but because we got married also here and it was a church marriage, it is very difficult to be annuled and upto this moment after 3 long years of the annullment...I havent got my freedom yet. but my children are going to be registered now as british...i have wrote to Kevins MP and he helped us for this one under compationate grounds...and hopefully by end of this month all our children will be registered and get their british passports. with my children prior to kevins relationship, he was able to adopt them. we went through legal process of adoption and he was able to get the adoption papers after a year through the help of the DSWD.

so good luck...i hope you get alittle idea on what we did...write to your MP and ask to help you with your daugther under compationate grounds

[joebloggs]

Ah I didnt know that, thanks.

I earn exactly that much though :)

the more you earn the less you would get :doh

but what ever, your still entitled to child benefit when they get here, and for 2 kids that's about £132 a month.

thou not alot, but anything would help :xxgrinning--00xx3:

good your earn that much, you shouldn't have a problem with getting a spouse visa when your time comes,if you can save about £2000 in your bank.

also remember you would need to pay for 2 settlement fees for your future wife and son, that's if you marry in the phils (about £1,000) now for both.

cost of flights, FLR/ILR and citizenship to, but you don't need to worry about that now :D

[JimOttley]

the more you earn the less you would get :doh

but what ever, your still entitled to child benefit when they get here, and for 2 kids that's about £132 a month.

thou not alot, but anything would help :xxgrinning--00xx3:

good your earn that much, you shouldn't have a problem with getting a spouse visa when your time comes,if you can save about £2000 in your bank.

also remember you would need to pay for 2 settlement fees for your future wife and son, that's if you marry in the phils (about £1,000) now for both.

cost of flights, FLR/ILR and citizenship to, but you don't need to worry about that now :D

Yep we have a lot of debt though which is what is making it hard for me.

Flights - hopefully I have enough airmiles left to cut the cost a little as long as KLM stop devaluing them.

Yeah child benefit would help a little, to be honest Ana needs the stability of being at home and looking after the kids for a few years anyway I don't really want her out slaving away to send money back for the rest of the family just now.

I am starting to think that the marriage in the Phils is probably the best route after all.


Jim

[joebloggs]

I am starting to think that the marriage in the Phils is probably the best route after all.

i got married in the phils.
i've got 2 step kids,
one came over with the misses, no problem getting visa's :xxgrinning--00xx3:
my stepson came over a 1 1/2yrs later on his own(17 1/2yrs old then), no problems getting him a visa, he was interviewed, etc.. hes back in the phils now at uni, but we need to get him here b4 april. or he will lose his ILR.

i think overall it would be easier and better if you got wed in the phils, as with the fiancée visa your intention is to wed within 6 months, but with a spouse visa you already made that commitment and are wed, especially as you have a daughter..

[JimOttley]

I understand how you feel about the embassy and like as they were saying they still categorise that your daugther is your missus ex-husband. we are on the same boat few years ago... i was married to an american and was already divorsed in the stes but because we got married also here and it was a church marriage, it is very difficult to be annuled and upto this moment after 3 long years of the annullment...I havent got my freedom yet. but my children are going to be registered now as british...i have wrote to Kevins MP and he helped us for this one under compationate grounds...and hopefully by end of this month all our children will be registered and get their british passports. with my children prior to kevins relationship, he was able to adopt them. we went through legal process of adoption and he was able to get the adoption papers after a year through the help of the DSWD.

so good luck...i hope you get alittle idea on what we did...write to your MP and ask to help you with your daugther under compationate grounds

Charlene thank you so much for your comment it is good to know that others have gone through this too and it does sound like your situation is very similar to ours.

I have also read some of your story as well and my heart goes out to you both, I really hope everything works out for you, you have been in a terrible situation.


Jim

[joebloggs]

i think Britishdetained maybe right about your daughters situation, citizenship is at the discretion of the HO. contacting your MP and with his help, maybe she could get it thru compelling or compassionate reasons.

i take it your g/f started the divorce proceedings in korea?

[JimOttley]

i think Britishdetained maybe right about your daughters situation, citizenship is at the discretion of the HO. contacting your MP and with his help, maybe she could get it thru compelling or compassionate reasons.

i take it your g/f started the divorce proceedings in korea?

The divorce was what the Koreans call a consensual divorce a bit like a quick divorce over here.

When Ana refused to be a housemaid he decided he wanted rid of her and he applied for the divorce she accepted but on condition that he fixed her papers however it looked like he never did that and she spent 4 years there thinking she was an illegal overstay.

Turned out years later that she was already Korean but she never found that out at the time in part because of the language barrier, she speaks enough Korean to get by but not enough to deal with government offices.

The real problem we have now is that the marriage occured in the Phils in the first place.

The divorce issue should really have nothing to do with my daughters birth registration though as that is completley separate.

This page is the one that applies to us.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/eligibility/children/britishcitizen/borntobritishfather/

and specifically this paragraph

Since 1 July 2006 both parents are able to pass on their British citizenship to their children even if they are not married providing there is satisfactory evidence of paternity. We will normally register any child born before 1 July 2006 to a father who is a British citizen father under section 3(1) if the requirements below are met:

There is more published information on this subject that I have been through over and over again and they basically had no right to refuse us for my daughter, it's not discretionary according to everthing I have read.

For kids born before 1st July 2006 it definitely was discretionary.

The problem for us was that they deliberately confused the issue in order to make it seem that the type of application we made did not apply to our daughter and that we would instead have to apply via home office.

The whole "your partner is still married thing" was a deliberate misinterpretation of the rules as I see it and was based on small discrepences between the published words on the UKBA web site and the published instructions on the forms they had at the embassy.

Anyway they were supposed to be forwarding our papers to London for a decision from the home office but that was ages ago and I have heard nothing back from them yet.

Just emailed the embasssy again a couple of weeks back but got an "out of office" bounce so I emailed again last night it's not bounced this time :)

[joebloggs]

i asked about who started the divorce because of this post here..

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php?t=14176

i totally agree with you about your daughter, her getting a passport shouldn't matter if your g/f is married or not, mentions nothing of her status, only mentions if you and your g/f are not married.

the ambassador for the Philippines embassy is Peter Beckingham i would see you mp and see what he can do.

and contact a couple of law centres near you for free advice..
http://www.lawcentres.org.uk/lawcentres/detail/find/

[JimOttley]

i asked about who started the divorce because of this post here..

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php?t=14176

i totally agree with you about your daughter, her getting a passport shouldn't matter if your g/f is married or not, mentions nothing of her status, only mentions if you and your g/f are not married.

the ambassador for the Philippines embassy is Peter Beckingham i would see you mp and see what he can do.

and contact a couple of law centres near you for free advice..
http://www.lawcentres.org.uk/lawcentres/detail/find/

Yes exactly I was aware of that interpretation of the law which is why I made the point that it ws the Korean who asked for the divorce.

However because the type of divorce was a consensual divorce that might raise problems in our case.

[joebloggs]

well jim, it looks to me, if you don't want to get married in Korea because of the risk of charges of bigamy if you g/f goes back to the phils. (how would the phil gov know she is married to you ?? - I don't know ) you'll have to wait for the annulment to come thru. and either marry in the phils or apply for a fiancée visa.

your problem, like many people on here is the time it takes and the money it will cost.:doh

but keep us informed how things go :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[IainBusby]

well jim, it looks to me, if you don't want to get married in Korea because of the risk of charges of bigamy if you g/f goes back to the phils. (how would the phil gov know she is married to you ?? - I don't know ) you'll have to wait for the annulment to come thru. and either marry in the phils or apply for a fiancée visa.

your problem, like many people on here is the time it takes and the money it will cost.:doh

but keep us informed how things go :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Why don't you email the British embassy in Manila and clarify with them, if she were legally divorced in Korea and then legally married again to you in Korea, would they (given that everything else was OK, finances, accomodation etc) be able to isuue a visa even though she would not be able to produce a Philippines CENOMAR, or would they accept the Philippines government view that she was still married and had therefore commited bigamy.

If they said that they would accept the legality of both the Korean divorce and subsequent re-marriage, then the only problem is the Philippines authorities and I would suggest, what they don't know, they would not be able to do anything about.

I really can't see how they could find out unless you told them. But unless the British Embassy would accept the fact that she was legally divorced and re-married, it would be a waste of time and would only confuse the situation even more.

Iain.

[JimOttley]

Why don't you email the British embassy in Manila and clarify with them, if she were legally divorced in Korea and then legally married again to you in Korea, would they (given that everything else was OK, finances, accomodation etc) be able to isuue a visa even though she would not be able to produce a Philippines CENOMAR, or would they accept the Philippines government view that she was still married and had therefore commited bigamy.

If they said that they would accept the legality of both the Korean divorce and subsequent re-marriage, then the only problem is the Philippines authorities and I would suggest, what they don't know, they would not be able to do anything about.

I really can't see how they could find out unless you told them. But unless the British Embassy would accept the fact that she was legally divorced and re-married, it would be a waste of time and would only confuse the situation even more.

Iain.

I've done part of that already Iain and thanks for the suggestion, I had written up another long reply to Joe last night pretty much saying the same when my new Windows 7 Installation crashed on me :) it was too long to re-write :)

Getting the Visa without CENOMAR in Manila and sorting out my daughters citizenship based on the fact that we were now legally married in Korea, then somehow dealing with James' position and that would be everything wrapped up nicely.

As you suggested I've emailed the embassy explaining most of the current situation, I did that a couple of weeks back then resent the email on Friday night as I have still had no response from them. When I finally get a reply I will expand my questions to include your suggestion.

Biggest problem with that is that due to the worldwide changes in the Visa application process the embassy don't like dealing directly with visa questions these days :(

I'm not about to tell the Philippine authorities anything more than I need to, I generally follow this rule at all times but I always tend get intimidated when I have to deal with the British government, I'm not a good liar, lying is hard work too much too remember, much easier to tell the truth :)

Thanks guys.

Jim

[britishdetained]

Charlene thank you so much for your comment it is good to know that others have gone through this too and it does sound like your situation is very similar to ours.

I have also read some of your story as well and my heart goes out to you both, I really hope everything works out for you, you have been in a terrible situation.


Jim

Its alright, I hope I was able to help:xxgrinning--00xx3::)

Oh about us, still hoping that soon the truth will prevail so that my six children will be with their dad.:)

[JimOttley]

Can't believe it, I have been so close to total despair and now I have a response from the British embassy this morning and my daughter's birth registration and passport have now been issued!

Both documents are ready for dispatch.

[Sun Shine]

Can't believe it, I have been so close to total despair and now I have a response from the British embassy this morning and my daughter's birth registration and passport have now been issued!

Both documents are ready for dispatch.

Congratulations Jim, good news for you. Must be a weight off your shoulders.:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[britishdetained]

thats good then i mention also your case to sir Carlos tampinco- he is the pro consul at the embassy...he is nice and would most of the time give considerations especially about compassionate grounds

[Sophie]

Can't believe it, I have been so close to total despair and now I have a response from the British embassy this morning and my daughter's birth registration and passport have now been issued!

Both documents are ready for dispatch.

congratulations jim :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Tawi2]

Can't believe it, I have been so close to total despair and now I have a response from the British embassy this morning and my daughter's birth registration and passport have now been issued!

Both documents are ready for dispatch.

Theres a rainbow at the end of every storm,its an old cliche but also a truism,congrats :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[JimOttley]

Thanks folks, I'm just a little stunned, the lack of movment on this issue all year was just making it feel like the mountain we had to climb was never getting any smaller.

I really did not expect any movement from the Embassy on this at all, aparently they emailed me last week but I think the junk mail filter on one of my machines ate the email :)

I feel a bit foolish now about pouring out my soul on here all weekend :) when one of our main problems had already been dealt with :)

Thanks to everyone for listening though and the advice on our other issues has been really good as well.

One other thing I have confirmed is that the British Embassy will no longer make any comment or provide any advice in relation to Visa's of any kind, I tried to sneak a question in relating to visa's when I sent the email a couple of weeks back and the reponse was absolutely no advice on visa's, you have to go through VFS Global at http://www.vfs-uk-ph.com.

Thanks again folks.


Jim

[IainBusby]

Can't believe it, I have been so close to total despair and now I have a response from the British embassy this morning and my daughter's birth registration and passport have now been issued!

Both documents are ready for dispatch.

Great News, some progress at last. It would be great now if the embassy told you that they would recognise the Korean divorce and a subsequent re-marriage regardless of her Filipino marital status. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Iain.

[joebloggs]

Can't believe it, I have been so close to total despair and now I have a response from the British embassy this morning and my daughter's birth registration and passport have now been issued!

Both documents are ready for dispatch.

:xxgrinning--00xx3: excellent news, thats one problem out of the way :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

One other thing I have confirmed is that the British Embassy will no longer make any comment or provide any advice in relation to Visa's of any kind, I tried to sneak a question in relating to visa's when I sent the email a couple of weeks back and the reponse was absolutely no advice on visa's, you have to go through VFS Global at http://www.vfs-uk-ph.com.


:NoNo:, but its not vfs who grant the visa, it's not vfs who refuse your visa and it is not them you send your appeal to :NoNo:

cheeky :censored:

[Sim11UK]

I feel a bit foolish now about pouring out my soul on here all weekend :) when one of our main problems had already been dealt with :

Good news :xxgrinning--00xx3:

No need to feel foolish, you didn't know...Members here are all prepared to pool their knowledge, to help each other. This is a great friendly site. :)

[JimOttley]

:NoNo:, but its not vfs who grant the visa, it's not vfs who refuse your visa and it is not them you send your appeal to :NoNo:

cheeky :censored:

Yeah is that not really crazy?

They have just deliberately deferred any kind of real help untill you get refused, so Iain's suggestion of asking them in advance if in principal after getting married in Korea, would they, all other things being ok, issue a visa without a Philippine CENOMAR on the basis of us getting married in Korea or would they still require her to comply with Philippine law because she is Filipino and is applying from the Phils, won't work.

If you can't ask them any real questions in advance of a refusal, it's a bloody big step to decide to go ahead and get married in Korea?

I had sort of asked a question relating to Ana's divorce document and our existing supporting documents for my daughters passport application (pretty much the same requirements) to see if that would be be enough for a fiancée visa and the response was flat 'we cannot talk about visa's'.

Basically there does not appear to be anywhere that you can ask that kind of 'What if?" question, unless I've missed something on the vfa site?

Better to be refused a fiancée visa than to be refused a spouse visa at least you still have options left in the fiancée case :)

Jim

[joebloggs]

whatever small chance there is of your visa being refused, you will have a right to appeal, and most appeals are won, i think its around the 66% mark for all types of visa.

with your evidence i'm sure you would win :rolleyes:

[JimOttley]

whatever small chance there is of your visa being refused, you will have a right to appeal, and most appeals are won, i think its around the 66% mark for all types of visa.

with your evidence i'm sure you would win :rolleyes:

Thanks Joe, I just lack confidence I think.

I'm not a gambler and I get really scared when I am faced with decisions like this, a bit of a woose really :) comes from the extremely precise nature of my work :)

When I write code I want it to work and to make it work I have to understand the problem in minute detail otherwise I will miss something and think everything is ok until it comes time to demo my code and something I failed to think about blows up in my face :)

Still going to get in touch with the IAS as I think that might be the best place to ask the "What if" questions.


Jim

[JimOttley]

Good news :xxgrinning--00xx3:

No need to feel foolish, you didn't know...Members here are all prepared to pool their knowledge, to help each other. This is a great friendly site. :)

Thanks Sim.

I really appreciate all the kind words from everyone!


Jim

[Ji&Ma]

Thanks Joe, I just lack confidence I think.

I'm not a gambler and I get really scared when I am faced with decisions like this, a bit of a woose really :) comes from the extremely precise nature of my work :)

When I write code I want it to work and to make it work I have to understand the problem in minute detail otherwise I will miss something and think everything is ok until it comes time to demo my code and something I failed to think about blows up in my face :)

Still going to get in touch with the IAS as I think that might be the best place to ask the "What if" questions.


Jim

Jim, you should put this to you ADVANTAGE actually not as downside. Just try to gather more information - not on VFS web as there you can't get too much info but from other sources. Try the links below, hope it will help somehow...

And congratulations Jim that you have got sorted your daughters passport at least - one big hurdle less :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Links:

UK Visas - Entry clearance guidance (http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/)
UKBA - Immigration rules (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/)
UKBA - Legislation (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/legislation/)

It is lots to go through and lots of oficial lingo but I'm sure with your eye for detail you will be able to pick the important pieces and it would help you a little... :xxgrinning--00xx3:
Good luck :Hellooo:

[fred]

Jim I have read your story and can understand your frustration especially with the British embassy..(There are heartless swine working in there)
Anyway..I wish you good fortune..
Fred.

[JimOttley]

Jim I have read your story and can understand your frustration especially with the British embassy..(There are heartless swine working in there)
Anyway..I wish you good fortune..
Fred.

Thanks Fred, I am feeling rather more kindly towards them now after today's news :)

[JimOttley]

Jim, you should put this to you ADVANTAGE actually not as downside. Just try to gather more information - not on VFS web as there you can't get too much info but from other sources. Try the links below, hope it will help somehow...

And congratulations Jim that you have got sorted your daughters passport at least - one big hurdle less :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Links:

UK Visas - Entry clearance guidance (http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/)
UKBA - Immigration rules (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/)
UKBA - Legislation (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/legislation/)

It is lots to go through and lots of oficial lingo but I'm sure with your eye for detail you will be able to pick the important pieces and it would help you a little... :xxgrinning--00xx3:
Good luck :Hellooo:

Thank you too Jiri & Marice :) !

[IainBusby]

One other thing I have confirmed is that the British Embassy will no longer make any comment or provide any advice in relation to Visa's of any kind, I tried to sneak a question in relating to visa's when I sent the email a couple of weeks back and the reponse was absolutely no advice on visa's, you have to go through VFS Global at http://www.vfs-uk-ph.com (http://www.vfs-uk-ph.com/).



Yeah is that not really crazy?

They have just deliberately deferred any kind of real help untill you get refused, so Iain's suggestion of asking them in advance if in principal after getting married in Korea, would they, all other things being ok, issue a visa without a Philippine CENOMAR on the basis of us getting married in Korea or would they still require her to comply with Philippine law because she is Filipino and is applying from the Phils, won't work.

If you can't ask them any real questions in advance of a refusal, it's a bloody big step to decide to go ahead and get married in Korea?

I had sort of asked a question relating to Ana's divorce document and our existing supporting documents for my daughters passport application (pretty much the same requirements) to see if that would be be enough for a fiancée visa and the response was flat 'we cannot talk about visa's'.

Basically there does not appear to be anywhere that you can ask that kind of 'What if?" question, unless I've missed something on the vfa site?

Better to be refused a fiancée visa than to be refused a spouse visa at least you still have options left in the fiancée case :)

Jim

If you can't speak to the monkey then try to speak to the organ grinder, contact the UKBA here in the UK, point out that the embassy in Phils is refusing to give advice on the matter and that it is not the sort of thing that their agents, VFS Global could give you an answer about, because only an ECO could give you accurate advice about this sort of thing.

If you can't get anywhere with them then get your MP to write to them....... They will give him or her a definitive answer.

You may think that your situation is absolutely unique, but given that Philippines law is (because of religion) so out of step with the rest world in only recognising divorces if the Filipino party involved did not instigate the divorce, I'm sure this situation has come up before from time to time and I'm sure that UKBA can give you an answer based on previous similar applications or maybe even based on previous appeal outcomes.

Iain.

[JimOttley]

If you can't speak to the monkey then try to speak to the organ grinder, contact the UKBA here in the UK, point out that the embassy in Phils is refusing to give advice on the matter and that it is not the sort of thing that their agents, VFS Global could give you an answer about, because only an ECO could give you accurate advice about this sort of thing.

If you can't get anywhere with them then get your MP to write to them....... They will give him or her a definitive answer.

You may think that your situation is absolutely unique, but given that Philippines law is (because of religion) so out of step with the rest world in only recognising divorces if the Filipino party involved did not instigate the divorce, I'm sure this situation has come up before from time to time and I'm sure that UKBA can give you an answer based on previous similar applications or maybe even based on previous appeal outcomes.

Iain.

Yes contacting the UKBA directly sounds like a good idea, but I will wait a few weeks longer as Ana has already filed her divorce paper at the Philippine embassy in Seoul and they said that takes a little while to process, I think it is possible that she will then get her annotated marriage certificate from the NSO and that might be enough for her annullment to finally get processed although that may take time. It is my understanding that she would be able to get her Philippine passport at that point as well, the odd thing is that may might imply acceptance of of the foreign divorce without further processing not sure about that though.

Our lawyer in Manila can advise us on that as I think (hope) they may already be treating her divorce as instigated by the husband, our current lawyer in Manila is a good friend, he is the guy that helped fix Ana's Korean nationality and her Philippine repatriation a couple of years back, young chap very motivated and very knowledgeable.

I do understand that our situation is very likely far from unique, it's just the finding advice in the UK that has been my problem recently as we have been so focused on getting advice in Manila for the last few years, as Ana had so many damn problems, it was just all a bit of a nightmare :)

It would have been less of a nightmare if we had not had a crap lawyer for the first two to three years but you live and learn :)

I wish I had found this site a long time ago, I got confused when I first signed in as it seemed like I had already registered a while back but I suspect I was either tired or had too many beers last Friday night :)

Again, to everyone, thanks so much for all the advice, even in these short few days it has been a great help, it's always good to talk as they say :xxgrinning--00xx3: