Slightly Scunnered

[Arthur Little]

As a newly-fledged 'Senior Citizen' (I can think of only two of our 'regulars' who are [marginally] older than myself) and, as a lifelong churchgoer ... Sunday School, Bible Class, Boys' Brigade Officer and *Elder *(for almost 35 years) ... I find myself becoming increasingly "scunnered" at the way the format of the Kirk in Scotland is heading.

Scunnered ... by Dictionary definition, implies feelings of disgust. But "disgust" is perhaps too strong a word for me to use in the context; disillusioned ... or simply "fed-up" would be more appropriate.

A few years ago, "the charge" to which I belong became vacant, and a 'Nominating Committee' (as it's now called) comprising mainly young(ish) members of the congregation was appointed to look for a successor. Unsurprisingly, therefore, the new incumbent inducted, turned out to be a 37-year-old with (in my opinion) fairly radical :idea:s as to how Sunday worship would henceforth be conducted.

For a start, he eschewed the Church of Scotland's centuries'-old practice of the clergy wearing robes :Rasp: - preferring instead to preach in suit and dog-collar. Next, he introduced a whole plethora of unfamiliar praise - resulting in congregational hymn-singing being reduced to something akin to an inept choir practice - with he, himself, on the odd occasion, leading on guitar ... in spite of our magnificent pipe organ!

Forbye, it caused more than a few "ripples" of discontent and unrest among the predominantly older congregation, when invitations were extended *exclusively to the [minority] under 40s age group to meet in the Wetherspoon's pub-cum-restaurant, next door for social get-togethers. Mind you, he's had to give *THAT one a miss himself in recent times since attaining his own fourth decade last month!

Don't get me wrong, folks. We all have to move with the times. And, as a member of the Kirk Session, I'm well aware of plans afoot to "rip out" the original 138-year-old inbuilt pews, in favour of "more servicable" seating ... and, to all intents and purposes, this motion has been carried.

Despite my various moans and groans, it has to be said that our [now] new(ish) minister is a likeable enough guy - even if he IS a bit cocky (which I find typical of a lot of wee men) - and (apart from his not wearing robes ... which probably alludes to his small stature) I enjoy his style and sense of humour. But I often DO yearn :bigcry: for the old, well-loved, rousing hymns that "raised the rafters" ...

[GaryFifer]

Comprise lad, do some james brown:xxgrinning--00xx3:

My mom recalls it has been done before. In the early 1970 my mom recalled a new minister was in his 40s.By using the guitar it appeals to the young people(he thought) He played tunes akin to The Lord of the Dance.

He thought by using that technique, and calling people brothers/sisters that this would attract more. It had the opposite affect. All people wanted was more fun games in the church hall which appeals to all,with the occasional hymn at the end.

He aliened a whole group of people doing this. So be careful. Everyone left. It went down to 10% attendance.

As for the older generation, he decided that no longer could the ladies do things like- guessing the weight of a cake, and similar other thing for fund raising. He stated that this akin to gambling.:Erm: Not allowed by the Church Of Scotland. No longer could we have Bring and Buy sales using Bric-a-brac and cooking various goods, jumble sales and other traditional methods for fund raising activities.

His reason for this- health and safety, and he did not believe in these activities. So all the groups, young mothers, the guild rebelled against him.

There was a great Stoosie and he was gone within a year. Victory to tradition. We don't like rocking the boat!

[Arthur Little]

comprise lad, do some james brown:xxgrinning--00xx3:

:Erm: Do you mean 'compromise', Gary? Hmm, James Brown? ... I know a heck of a lotta people with THAT name ... !

[Arthur Little]

At least YOU'LL no' be bamboozled wi' the word "scunnert" ... bein' a fellow Scot! :icon_lol: Just thought it might be a good word to arouse folks' curiosity to an otherwise mundane topic - given the small percentage of Brits that actually attend church services nowadays.

[Arthur Little]

Comprise lad, do some james brown:xxgrinning--00xx3:

My mom recalls it has been done before. In the early 1970 my mom recalled a new minister was in his 40s.By using the guitar it appeals to the young people(he thought) He played tunes akin to The Lord of the Dance.

He thought by using that technique, and calling people brothers/sisters that this would attract more. It had the opposite affect. All people wanted was more fun games in the church hall which appeals to all,with the occasional hymn at the end.

He aliened a whole group of people doing this. So be careful. Everyone left. It went down to 10% attendance.

As for the older generation, he decided that no longer could the ladies do things like- guessing the weight of a cake, and similar other thing for fund raising. He stated that this akin to gambling.:Erm: Not allowed by the Church Of Scotland. No longer could we have Bring and Buy sales using Bric-a-brac and cooking various goods, jumble sales and other traditional methods for fund raising activities.

His reason for this- health and safety, and he did not believe in these activities. So all the groups, young mothers, the guild rebelled against him.

There was a great Stoosie and he was gone within a year. Victory to tradition. We don't like rocking the boat!

Ah ... sorry, Gary, I guess my subsequent posts overlapped with yours! I see now that the James Brown you were referring to was the same Reverend gentleman whose "short-sighted" :cwm24: approach led to his tenure of office being equally short-lived in your mum's church.

Yes :iagree: ... in the end, these "new-fangled" notions very often prove to be the undoing of would-be "modernisers" like Rev Brown and his disciples. As you and I both know, people - the Scottish Presbyterians in particular - are fiercely proud of their old-fashioned traditions ... and none more so than the Kirk's followers. And already, whilst MY Church has had its share of new members, a substantial number of the staunch old 'die-hards' have, sadly, felt alienated and transferred their lines elsewhere ... :omg:

[James Hubbard]

As an ethnic scot scunnered is NOTHING to me (meaning it's easy to understand), and having some family (uncles and aunties) who speak with a norn irish brogue, they say scundered, nevertheless....


as a religious, and somewhat theologically educated (though, i may say, not an expert) myself, . . . . .


why the heck did they let a young-ish man lead a kirk congregation of older people? Surely there was a congregation better fitted to this man, and perhaps a minister who matched more closely the demographic of your congregation could have been allotted???:doh

[Sophie]

why the heck did they let a young-ish man lead a kirk congregation of older people? Surely there was a congregation better fitted to this man, and perhaps a minister who matched more closely the demographic of your congregation could have been allotted???:doh

I agree :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

why the heck did they let a young-ish man lead a kirk congregation of older people? Surely there was a congregation better fitted to this man, and perhaps a minister who matched more closely the demographic of your congregation could have been allotted???:doh


I agree :xxgrinning--00xx3:


:gp:, folks. But then ... when the day came for appointing a *Nominating Committee *[referred to in the 3rd paragraph of my opening post] church members who could be bothered staying behind after morning service to vote, gathered together in small cliques to make sure of their voices being heard (politics and religion are not so very dissimilar in many ways!). And the upshot was, that at least 90% of those chosen to "represent the interests" of the congregation were less than middle-aged. Indeed, at least two of their number - both clad in denims - had barely finished university!!

From then on, it seemed almost a foregone conclusion that the likely choice of this newly-elected group would be for a youthful, dynamic leader suited to a 21st Century style of worship ... with the main aim of attracting a greater number of young people to God's House ...

... "and so" [to quote a Biblical phrase] "it came to pass ... " :rolleyes:

[James Hubbard]

From then on, it seemed almost a foregone conclusion that the likely choice of this newly-elected group would be for a youthful, dynamic leader suited to a 21st Century style of worship ... with the main aim of attracting a greater number of young people to God's House ...

... "and so" [to quote a Biblical phrase] "it came to pass ... " :rolleyes:

I guess that the upshot of this is that it means that the church won't die when its older congregants do.:ARsurrender:

[Arthur Little]

I guess that the upshot of this is that it means that the church won't die when its older congregants do.:ARsurrender:

Exactly!... you've GOT it in a 'oner', James. And it's strange to think that I was first married in that church long before its present spiritual leader was e'en a "twinkle in his mum's eye! :doh Must be getting old!

[James Hubbard]

Exactly!... you've GOT it in a 'oner', James. And it's strange to think that I was first married in that church long before its present spiritual leader was e'en a "twinkle in his mum's eye! :doh Must be getting old!

Maybe you can get alongside him and encourage him, because if the church is full of old people, it'll be really hard on the vicar. You're an encourager Arthur, so I'm sure you'll look after him :D:cwm38:

[Jay&Zobel]

Maybe this is another way to attract youngish folks? Some younger generations wouldnt want to attend church as the setting is too "old-fashioned" for them. So maybe he is trying to infuse the young & the old (?)

[GaryFifer]

How about this little guy at church?

http://www.break.com/index/little-toddler-preaching-at-church.html