Apple to unveil new product

[walesrob]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8480063.stm

So, any guesses what it could be? i-Toilet? i-TV? i-:censored:? :Erm:

[aromulus]

Exactly as every Apple product on the market already.... :Erm:

Absolutely nothing of use for me.:doh

[KeithD]

It's been known for months it's a Tablet. Kind of a laptop with just a touch screen. Does exactly the same as a Netbook, but costs 3X more, but as usual the muppets who 'love' Apple will buy it :doh

[Arthur Little]

But not being a 'techno-geek' ... it's all "G(r)eek" to me ... unless, of course, it happens to be a new brand of CIDER apple! :icon_lol:

[maria_and_matt]

It's been known for months it's a Tablet. Kind of a laptop with just a touch screen. Does exactly the same as a Netbook, but costs 3X more, but as usual the muppets who 'love' Apple will buy it :doh

i love apple but i am not a muppet:icon_lol::icon_lol:

[walesrob]

Its a giant I-pod! :NoNo: Called an I-pad :doh

[maldita]

I just have to laugh at this.

[Arthur Little]

I just have to laugh at this.

Haha ... me too ... being a self-confessed 'luddite'! :lol2:

[KeithD]

It doesn't even multi-task :doh That's as bad as cut'n'paste not appearing till V3 of the Iphone ... and people buy these low tech over-hyped products :icon_lol:

[somebody]

It doesn't even multi-task :doh That's as bad as cut'n'paste not appearing till V3 of the Iphone ... and people buy these low tech over-hyped products :icon_lol:

As im sure your aware the device could multi task and for some functions it does but the user has no say. Doesn't have Flash so many websites will not be shown fully or fully functioning.

Personally I would prefer to choose what I want running and play with the files on the system. But many want a simple device which does what it says on the tin and rarely crashes.

[somebody]

http://gizmodo.com/5365299/courier-first-details-of-microsofts-secret-tablet


N900 for now but this in the near future keep your Ipad:D

[KeithD]

But many want a simple device which does what it says on the tin and rarely crashes.
That'll be my top spec Vista laptop then, never crashed yet, and easily runs over 50 web pages and programs at the same time :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[complex]

That'll be my top spec Vista laptop then, never crashed yet, and easily runs over 50 web pages and programs at the same time :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Thats funny as my Laptop which isnt even the top of the range Mac has 130 pages open, and usually between 8-20 apps at any one time and never crashes! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Its up to people to choose what they like and after using in both work and home Macs for around 20 years I know what I prefer.

I predict the iPad will be the first tablet PC to gain mass adoption unlike all the failed windows tablets that have been coming out since 2001.

[joebloggs]

apples share of the PC market is what less than 10%, so i don't know how it will gain mass adoption :rolleyes:

apple are just trying something others have already done :NoNo:

X60 from 2yrs ago .. lygAVpUwCz8

[raynaputi]

a blown up iPod Touch! I never really got interested with Apple's products..costs too much but lacks most of the things i want..just look at iPhone..one example of disappointment..:NoNo:

[KeithD]

Thats funny as my Laptop which isnt even the top of the range Mac has 130 pages open, and usually between 8-20 apps at any one time and never crashes! :xxgrinning--00xx3:
Due to the processor limitations in a Mac they don't run the betting bots I use as they can't process the info quick enough with other apps running like the TV tuner, excel bot conversions, all tested on the latest Mac, and all they do is stutter, no use for making money :)

[walesrob]

Its up to people to choose what they like and after using in both work and home Macs for around 20 years I know what I prefer.


Having used Mac, Ubuntu and 2 other flavours of Linux, I'll always come back to windows. Mac and Linux for me are alien OS's and require a steep learning curve involving a lot of time and patience. Windows, I can troubleshoot easily, if I can't, a google search usually does the trick.



I predict the iPad will be the first tablet PC to gain mass adoption unlike all the failed windows tablets that have been coming out since 2001.

Count me out as my laptop does the job well, I see no useful purpose for an I-pad. I refuse to pray (or pay) to the Church of Apple.

[South-east boy]

a blown up iPod Touch! I never really got interested with Apple's products..costs too much but lacks most of the things i want..just look at iPhone..one example of disappointment..:NoNo:

What's disappointing with the iPhone?! What more do you want in a phone?! :icon_lol: The only things that are not so good with my 3GS one are the camera and battery life, but with the battery, that's probably as I use the Internet on it so much whereas in my old Nokia N95 it was a lot harder to use/even painful. The iPhone is like an entertainment centre with so many handy apps for nearly anything you want. It's not one of the biggest selling phones for no reason!

[Dedworth]

What's disappointing with the iPhone?! What more do you want in a phone?! :icon_lol: The only things that are not so good with my 3GS one are the camera and battery life, but with the battery, that's probably as I use the Internet on it so much whereas in my old Nokia N95 it was a lot harder to use/even painful. The iPhone is like an entertainment centre with so many handy apps for nearly anything you want. It's not one of the biggest selling phones for no reason!

I thought the big downsides were supposed to be sealed in battery and SIM cards. Might be wrong.

I've never bought anything Apple as I their products to be both overhyped and overpriced.

They tried and failed before with the long forgotten Apple Newton

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2010/01/newtonbig2.jpg

[raynaputi]

What's disappointing with the iPhone?! What more do you want in a phone?! :icon_lol: The only things that are not so good with my 3GS one are the camera and battery life, but with the battery, that's probably as I use the Internet on it so much whereas in my old Nokia N95 it was a lot harder to use/even painful. The iPhone is like an entertainment centre with so many handy apps for nearly anything you want. It's not one of the biggest selling phones for no reason!

Well bluetooth is not compatible with the other's..cant replace the batteries and u have to go to their service center to replace it..apps u can install must be connected with Apple (well unless u jailbreak it)..memory not expandable..

[sars_notd_virus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8480063.stm



Nothing exciting....I still wont trade my gadgets lol:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[complex]

Well the fact apple has a small market share hasn't hurt the iPhone or any other of their consumer products i.e. ipods!

[complex]

I know at least 7 friends now with iPhones all more than happy with them, admittedly if your used to the Nokias and other phones that all copy the same functionality and then apples leaves something out that you think should be standard then most people seem to feel cheated, but if you use an iPhone for any period of time I reckon you would never wont to move back to the old style interfaces. my previous phone a Sony K800 now feels so old, but still that is a very well specs good working phone.
As for saying the bluetooth in iphone isn't compatible thats wrong, apple just limits the use of it, which is a bit annoying the one time someone asked me to send them something over bluetooth. My battery is still working fine, I will probably upgrade to a new model as my contact is already out so I doubt I'll be replacing a battery. Apps come from apple which isnt a problem, tell me what apps you want to run that the app store hasn't got? the fact the app store has been so successful is Apple makes it so easy to buy applications, now Microsoft Google and all the other makers are copying Apple again. So if the people here think apple doesn't do anything right that they want, the rest of the industry must be thinking differently!!

[complex]

It really just sounds like your more accustomed to windows and prefer it and find it easier for that reason, the question might be if you would need to troubleshoot your PC as often if it was a Mac. Same way when I go on a windows machine it just feels wrong and far to much hard work to do simple everyday tasks, I've not used Windows 7, and have only heard good things about it.

Why an iPad is a good idea over a laptop or netbook is for the same reason the iPhone has such high net usage stats, ease of use and having it there where you want it, most people might not want a laptop on their coffee table or arm of their chair, a lot of people like myself find they would rather just grab their iPhone to check something quick online as its within arms reach most of the time, substitute a device thats is faster has a better display and able to do more and then thats the iPad. Then think of some ageing parents that are not tech savy but would like to do some facebook or other internet activities, maybe shop from amazon send emails etc, all easily done from the iPad. Make more sense now? would you want to give a 60 year old a netbook, what functionality would they gain, a smaller screen, lower quality performance, viruses etc etc?

[complex]

What limitations, Apple have been using standard Intel processors now for the last 3-4 years? same as you would find in any top of the range PC, because they don't use the cheap ones like Atom, just Core Duo and Xeon Nehalem, the only problem i would guess you to have would be the software is written for Windows and just wouldn't run on a Mac?

And if your booting the Mac into windows which is now possible with all Macs now I'm sure it would perform like any top of the range windows machine as I remember when Apple first introduced Intel processors PC mag did a test and the 17" MacBook pro was rated faster than any PC laptop at the time at running windows!

[walesrob]

Same way when I go on a windows machine it just feels wrong and far to much hard work to do simple everyday tasks

Really? What's so complicated about:

1) Press power button
2) (...then Windows Starts up)
3) Hit the Internet Explorer/Firefox/Opera/Safari icon
...and hey presto your on the net!

Again, if you were to use Notepad to take some notes:

1) Press power button
2)(...then Windows starts up)
3) Click start > Notepad

I'm sure all is great and wonderful in Apple land, but Windows is perfect for me, along with my 3 year old Sony Ericsson which has NO limits on bluetooth, (and I can send/receive email as well).

If Apple gives you a warm fuzzy feeling with their overpriced, over hyped products/rubbish, then good for you. My underhyped/overpriced FujitsuSiemens Li3910 makes me happy and does the job far better than any i-phone./i-pod/i-pad/i-whatever.

I had an email a while back, and it had the tagline "This email was sent from my I-phone". :crazy:

[KeithD]

Really? What's so complicated about:

1) Press power button
2) (...then Windows Starts up)
3) Hit the Internet Explorer/Firefox/Opera/Safari icon
...and hey presto your on the net!


Can you explain that in simpler terms Rob.... we have women on here you know :xxparty-smiley-004:

[raynaputi]

Can you explain that in simpler terms Rob.... we have women on here you know :xxparty-smiley-004:

Hey! I'm a woman and I DO GET THAT! hahahaha :Erm::doh:dumbputer:

[South-east boy]

Really? What's so complicated about:

1) Press power button
2) (...then Windows Starts up)
3) Hit the Internet Explorer/Firefox/Opera/Safari icon
...and hey presto your on the net!

Again, if you were to use Notepad to take some notes:

1) Press power button
2)(...then Windows starts up)
3) Click start > Notepad

I'm sure all is great and wonderful in Apple land, but Windows is perfect for me, along with my 3 year old Sony Ericsson which has NO limits on bluetooth, (and I can send/receive email as well).

If Apple gives you a warm fuzzy feeling with their overpriced, over hyped products/rubbish, then good for you. My underhyped/overpriced FujitsuSiemens Li3910 makes me happy and does the job far better than any i-phone./i-pod/i-pad/i-whatever.

I had an email a while back, and it had the tagline "This email was sent from
my I-phone". :crazy:

So you have used all of Apples current products then to know that they are 'rubbish' and what you have is better? I only have an iPhone and iPod, but the demo I saw on the new iMac was pretty impressive!

Yeah, the iPhone would be better with a removeable battery, but you only would need to remove it if changing it over with a spare one. I don't see a y problems with the apps as there are so many and at least as they are through Apple they are less likely to cause any problems. Every one csn find a fault with any certain phone or something that one has that another hasn't, or one that seems to have everything but isn't so easy to use or doesn't work so well.

[aromulus]

I personally think that iphones and ipod this and that are a waste of space and an unnecessary expense.

People get suckered into buying the applications, games, songs....:doh

[KeithD]

So you have used all of Apples current products then to know that they are 'rubbish' and what you have is better? I only have an iPhone and iPod, but the demo I saw on the new iMac was pretty impressive!l.
I have, and so has Rob, obviosuly not the iMac but the Specs are :laugher:

[Northerner]

Have been umming and ahhing over getting an Iphone. But to be honest, they are simply overpriced for what you get. HTC offer far better handsets for about £100 less. They use Google android in some of them, so there are plenty of Apps and stuff floating round on the internet.

But the one thing about Apple that I really do like is Itunes, specifically Itunes U! And I like the idea of download free debates and lectures and boring stuff like that.. But at least with Itunes, Apple made it simple with updating and downloading and syncing to the phone..

I currently use a Blackberry Bold 9000. good phone, but the internet browser crashes with large pages, such as Wikipedia:doh

but the Sony Satio is looking kind of nice too... Will need to research this before I upgrade:)

[fred]

Never saw an Ipod up close..My son asked for a memory stick the other day "for school"so I poked him in the head to show him where his own is stored..
Im sure Im missing out on tons of fun and games but for some reason I just dont care.

[joebloggs]

Im sure Im missing out on tons of fun and games but for some reason I just dont care.

:xxgrinning--00xx3:


:iagree:

[bornatbirth]

:xxgrinning--00xx3:


:iagree:

worns golf can be fun.

but a dedicated games machine is far better.

ok i understand how good a mobile phone is, at times i wonder why do you need all this other stuff like mp3, camera when you get get better dedicated devise.

apple do decent products as all theyre doing is using whats already being used and making it easier to use and better looking, even pc's are getting a make over.

your paying for the brand.

[aromulus]

but the Sony Satio is looking kind of nice too... Will need to research this before I upgrade:)

I have been considering an upgrade to the Satio too, for a while, and what is keeping me from doing it just yet is the fact that they had several crashing issues with that phone, which allegedly have been sorted out....:Erm:
But the big bone of contention with me is the simple fact that the battery life is rather short, according to the forums...
I would love to get myself a 12meg camera phone for nothing.... But not just yet, I prefer to wait a wee bit longer...

[complex]

Having used Mac, Ubuntu and 2 other flavours of Linux, I'll always come back to windows. Mac and Linux for me are alien OS's and require a steep learning curve involving a lot of time and patience. Windows, I can troubleshoot easily, if I can't, a google search usually does the trick.



Count me out as my laptop does the job well, I see no useful purpose for an I-pad. I refuse to pray (or pay) to the Church of Apple.


What's disappointing with the iPhone?! What more do you want in a phone?! :icon_lol: The only things that are not so good with my 3GS one are the camera and battery life, but with the battery, that's probably as I use the Internet on it so much whereas in my old Nokia N95 it was a lot harder to use/even painful. The iPhone is like an entertainment centre with so many handy apps for nearly anything you want. It's not one of the biggest selling phones for no reason!


Really? What's so complicated about:

1) Press power button
2) (...then Windows Starts up)
3) Hit the Internet Explorer/Firefox/Opera/Safari icon
...and hey presto your on the net!

Again, if you were to use Notepad to take some notes:

1) Press power button
2)(...then Windows starts up)
3) Click start > Notepad

I'm sure all is great and wonderful in Apple land, but Windows is perfect for me, along with my 3 year old Sony Ericsson which has NO limits on bluetooth, (and I can send/receive email as well).

If Apple gives you a warm fuzzy feeling with their overpriced, over hyped products/rubbish, then good for you. My underhyped/overpriced FujitsuSiemens Li3910 makes me happy and does the job far better than any i-phone./i-pod/i-pad/i-whatever.

I had an email a while back, and it had the tagline "This email was sent from my I-phone". :crazy:

Firstly an observation, why do people hate on Apple so much, do you hate all companies that offer products you don't want, or is it some sort of jealousy? If you drive a ford focus, do you hate Aston Martins because their over priced and you don't really perceive any real difference to your car?
Maybe you can explain this, or maybe have a quiet minute to think about it! lol

Thats funny, most windows PC's i've encountered through friends seem to take a couple minutes for the initial boot time and then a further 5-15 while task bar loads, then you get challenged to respond to loads of unwanted task bar messages then you have to do your security check then your software updates. then if alls ok you might get to launch a browser window, then your confronted with a browser window that has so many on screen buttons at the top it takes up a third of your screen, hardly user friendly. I know this is a generalisation, but one I've experienced many times and I know you can customise and optimise your PC for better results but then why doesn't it just work right out of the box!
Also you describe the most basic function of turning the machine on, but it's what you do once its on, and how it interacts with you, does it get out of your way or is always stopping you from getting to where you wanna be. In my limited experience with Windows it often takes more clicks to accomplish the same task I can do on the Mac, but that could be me, but I've read much the same experience from others.

[complex]

I personally think that iphones and ipod this and that are a waste of space and an unnecessary expense.

People get suckered into buying the applications, games, songs....:doh


So people getting suckered into buying music and games, what, instead of stealing? well we see the angle your coming from lol I think people choosing where they wanna spend their money is up to them.

[complex]

I have been considering an upgrade to the Satio too, for a while, and what is keeping me from doing it just yet is the fact that they had several crashing issues with that phone, which allegedly have been sorted out....:Erm:
But the big bone of contention with me is the simple fact that the battery life is rather short, according to the forums...
I would love to get myself a 12meg camera phone for nothing.... But not just yet, I prefer to wait a wee bit longer...

why do you want a 12megapixel camera on a phone, seriously its a waste of time, it wont improve the picture quality, if anything its likely to make it worse, add to memory you don't need, if you understand anything about Photography you would know this, this how people get suckered in, people moan the iPhones specs aren't up to scratch but if you look at numbers and think bigger is better than your sadly misinformed. (sure there will be some quips on bigger is better! :doh)

[complex]

I have, and so has Rob, obviosuly not the iMac but the Specs are :laugher:

I'm starting to think your just winding us up!

firstly when you talked about processors which is obvious BS as anyone can check the specs and see macs are at the high end of processors. Now with a blanket statement saying you've used them all and their all rubbish, well if thats the case well I've used all PC's and there rubbish too so there lol :erotic4:

[South-east boy]

Have been umming and ahhing over getting an Iphone. But to be honest, they are simply overpriced for what you get. HTC offer far better handsets for about £100 less. They use Google android in some of them, so there are plenty of Apps and stuff floating round on the internet.

But the one thing about Apple that I really do like is Itunes, specifically Itunes U! And I like the idea of download free debates and lectures and boring stuff like that.. But at least with Itunes, Apple made it simple with updating and downloading and syncing to the phone..

I currently use a Blackberry Bold 9000. good phone, but the internet browser crashes with large pages, such as Wikipedia:doh

but the Sony Satio is looking kind of nice too... Will need to research this before I upgrade:)


I dunno about the iPhone being over-priced as any similar new phone will be a similar price, the same with tarrifs, if you want the latest new phone there is a cost on top depending on what tarrif and the length of it.

Also I don't know about HTC being better, I spent weeks reading reviews and comparrison reviews between them (and a few HTC's) and the iPhone on all the phones before I bought mine and each other phone had something that wasn't so good or didn't work so well such as the touch screen not being as responsive and needing to press/touch it a few times to get it to do something.

I bought my phone outright as then I could get the simplicity tarrif for one year which gets you better tarrif than the £45 a month one and I also only need to have it for a year instead of 18-24 months, so I can sell ot for a food price and use the money towards the next new one.

[aromulus]

So people getting suckered into buying music and games, what, instead of stealing? well we see the angle your coming from lol I think people choosing where they wanna spend their money is up to them.


why do you want a 12megapixel camera on a phone, seriously its a waste of time, it wont improve the picture quality, if anything its likely to make it worse, add to memory you don't need, if you understand anything about Photography you would know this, this how people get suckered in, people moan the iPhones specs aren't up to scratch but if you look at numbers and think bigger is better than your sadly misinformed. (sure there will be some quips on bigger is better! :doh)

And you would be an undisputed messianic autority on all this because.....???:Erm:

[Northerner]

I dunno about the iPhone being over-priced as any similar new phone will be a similar price, the same with tarrifs, if you want the latest new phone there is a cost on top depending on what tarrif and the length of it.

Also I don't know about HTC being better, I spent weeks reading reviews and comparrison reviews between them (and a few HTC's) and the iPhone on all the phones before I bought mine and each other phone had something that wasn't so good or didn't work so well such as the touch screen not being as responsive and needing to press/touch it a few times to get it to do something.

I bought my phone outright as then I could get the simplicity tarrif for one year which gets you better tarrif than the £45 a month one and I also only need to have it for a year instead of 18-24 months, so I can sell ot for a food price and use the money towards the next new one.

I am talking more from experience with the Iphone (so many people have them it is easy to have a quick go with one). There is no "Iphone Killer" as of yet, although I have read reviews of one of the HTC phones which was dubbed the Iphone killer, but they really wont be.

The good thing about the Iphone is it is easy to use, it is a simple smartphone with plenty of apps available. To be honest, it is the apps making me think about the Iphone more and more as I like the idea that my bank has an app as well!

When I say overpriced, I am referring to what the Iphone has and what another phone has. I would need to increase my monthly contract fee in order to get one, but with a Sony Satio or one of those newer HTC models I don't. Yet the specs on some of these look as good if not better. But then that is how the Iphone is marketed - as the exclusive must have (for lack of better words).

Plus, I dont like how Apple tie you in with certain providers. Even though I use O2, I go through the Carphone Warehouse. And I would technically have to switch to have an Iphone:doh

[joebloggs]

Firstly an observation, why do people hate on Apple so much,

Thats funny, most windows PC's i've encountered through friends seem to take a couple minutes for the initial boot time and then a further 5-15 while task bar loads, then you get challenged to respond to loads of unwanted task bar messages then you have to do your security check then your software updates. then if alls ok you might get to launch a browser window, then your confronted with a browser window that has so many on screen buttons at the top it takes up a third of your screen, hardly user friendly. I know this is a generalisation, but one I've experienced many times and I know you can customise and optimise your PC for better results but then why doesn't it just work right out of the box!
Also you describe the most basic function of turning the machine on, but it's what you do once its on, and how it interacts with you, does it get out of your way or is always stopping you from getting to where you wanna be. In my limited experience with Windows it often takes more clicks to accomplish the same task I can do on the Mac, but that could be me, but I've read much the same experience from others.

i dont hate macs, i just like the fact that if something on my pc dies, i can go to my local computer shop, buy a new psu/ mother board/dvd writer etc for a small amount of money and its up and running again in minutes :rolleyes:

maybe your friend should try and optimise their pc :rolleyes: as for loads of updates :icon_lol:, :Erm: even if that was so, updating the OS with fixes can only be a good thing :D

you've said it yourself you can customise the pc settings, so you can usually display what menus you want :rolleyes:

as you've said you've got limited experience with pc's :rolleyes:

so each to their own, i just want something that does the job and i can expand without costing me :REGamblMoney01HL1:, who makes it i dont care, but for me, the PC range of s/w is far greater than for the Mac

[walesrob]

:yawn:

[aromulus]

:yawn:

You flippin' well started it...!!!:doh

[KeithD]

Firstly an observation, why do people hate on Apple so much,
You'll find that we don't HATE Apple they are excellent marketers, the problem is that they aim at gullible people who constantly pay extra for inferior products.

Someone mentioned HTC, the version I bought in 2004 still does more than the Iphone :doh, and well the new HTC I have, it'll take Apple at least 10 years to get to that level as their R&D is well behind.

In 2009 the OS with the worst security problems was Apple's. FACT. Check the official security site that covers all updates on all machines.

You can't win this discussion you are talking to people who have been programming, building, repairing computers for 20+ years.

[bornatbirth]

You flippin' well started it...!!!:doh

the welsh always do :rolleyes:

[KeithD]

the welsh always do :rolleyes:
He's about as Welsh as you are intelligent :Cuckoo:

[walesrob]

You flippin' well started it...!!!:doh

Moi? :D

[walesrob]

He's about as Welsh as you are intelligent :Cuckoo:


I find the Ignore function on this forum a great idea, so far 2 people on this forum are on my ignore list. Can you guess who?

[somebody]

I find the Ignore function on this forum a great idea, so far 2 people on this forum are on my ignore list. Can you guess who?

Hi Rob im guessing you cant read this:erotic4: :D

[joebloggs]

Hi Rob im guessing you cant read this:erotic4: :D

i can thou :yikes:, i thought i had put you on my ignore list:doh

thanks andy :rolleyes:

[somebody]

Apple if you want neat and tidy, not worried about certain functions having a few years behind the latest specs and not that bothered to fiddle under the bonnet. But not for many who do want to push the limits and fiddle..

That is not an insult like Mr admin po boss lord of Wales says. Many people want simplicty and ease of use. You can pick up an apple and get it working in mintues. But from personal experience without hacking them they are to limited for what I want and require.

I dont like the lack of swapable battery but others like it as thats why its thinner and more tidy looking than many devices.

I dont like the restrictions to what software legally (for those that want to argue about this read the T and C's you agree to when using an Iphone) I can use on my Device, that the software has to be approved for me to use.

But I can see some people like to have this censorship to ensure the programs will work with their device. But having read how some Technically perfectly ok programs are not allowed to be distributed and reading between the lines because its not want apple want commercially does worry me as its a business model others are looking at:NoNo: What will happen to innovation if we only have what the corps want us to have:Erm:

Companies even have to have updates small or big approved for software on apple store I belive which again some people will be happy with and can wait while others will not like.

Many Software applications and Hardware add ons for devices for many IT related products were indepently created and may have been rivals to the oem's products but in the end superceded these.

I also am happy to mutli task I know that means the device is running at a degree where it might crash if i have a mixture of twenty odd applications and browser windows open in my N900. It may mean the battery runs out a tad quicker but im ok with that. it happens rarely and often if you use your nous its amazing how much a smartphone can acheive if set up correctly.

At least on my Device I can choose if I want to use Flash or not use flash. Not be told sorry I Mr Jobs dont like Flash ( I understand the reasons) and you will not have the option to use. This has meant often the Wife with her Itouch and others with Iphone have asked to borrow my phone so they can use a site which depends on Flash:rolleyes:

The Wife has on her itouch discovered she is not allowed by apple to perform more than one task at at a time in many situations. But she can on those evill devices which allow multitasking:omg:
For her to browse the web, check email, check twitter, check her photos, and play her music things all go pear shape it appears. Now maybe its possible but even with the famous Apple usabilty she has found she can do less at a time..

I totally see the point of apple products most people just want a pc that works will never fiddle with its software or hardware in depth and the same with their phone.

For me its like the Car market many people dont want to fiddle with their car and just accept what they are given but many like to fiddle or improve so horses for courses:)

Im Happy Apple have these products for people who have been crying out for Smartphones which are easy to use but I want the choice we have at present to stay and dont want to only to be able to pick between locked down systems.

Which with the new win mob 7 and Apple looks like the "Walled Garden" may be a big part of the future:NoNo:

[somebody]

i can thou :yikes:, i thought i had put you on my ignore list:doh

thanks andy :rolleyes:

You must have put somebody else on the list:D

[joebloggs]

You must have put somebody else on the list:D

that makes sense, i've not seen any posts by scouser Keith for months :Erm:, is he still on holiday :D

your last post andy, those who just want to switch on and go, will have no idea what your talking about :76::doh

i was waiting for your long reply :icon_sorry:, and knew you couldn't resist it :icon_lol:

[somebody]

that makes sense, i've not seen any posts by scouser Keith for months :Erm:, is he still on holiday :D

your last post andy, those who just want to switch on and go, will have no idea what your talking about :76::doh

i was waiting for your long reply :icon_sorry:, and knew you couldn't resist it :icon_lol:

That wasn't a long reply :D I got loads done while typing that out. But then I'm using a device which can multitask:rolleyes:

Im not worried about the switch on and go people they are all sheep:D. I hope Rob doesn't read this he will get all excited:D

[joebloggs]

But then I'm using a device which can multitask:rolleyes:


that's what i use, i dictate to the misses what to type on the pc, while i'm changing channels on tv with the remote, while eating a pack of crisps, now thats real mutli tasking :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[somebody]

that's what i use, i dictate to the misses what to type on the pc, while i'm changing channels on tv with the remote, while eating a pack of crisps, now thats real mutli tasking :xxgrinning--00xx3:
No cup of tea and who is walking the whippet:Erm:

[complex]

Apple if you want neat and tidy, not worried about certain functions having a few years behind the latest specs and not that bothered to fiddle under the bonnet. But not for many who do want to push the limits and fiddle..

That is not an insult like Mr admin po boss lord of Wales says. Many people want simplicty and ease of use. You can pick up an apple and get it working in mintues. But from personal experience without hacking them they are to limited for what I want and require.

I dont like the lack of swapable battery but others like it as thats why its thinner and more tidy looking than many devices.

I dont like the restrictions to what software legally (for those that want to argue about this read the T and C's you agree to when using an Iphone) I can use on my Device, that the software has to be approved for me to use.

But I can see some people like to have this censorship to ensure the programs will work with their device. But having read how some Technically perfectly ok programs are not allowed to be distributed and reading between the lines because its not want apple want commercially does worry me as its a business model others are looking at:NoNo: What will happen to innovation if we only have what the corps want us to have:Erm:

Companies even have to have updates small or big approved for software on apple store I belive which again some people will be happy with and can wait while others will not like.

Many Software applications and Hardware add ons for devices for many IT related products were indepently created and may have been rivals to the oem's products but in the end superceded these.

I also am happy to mutli task I know that means the device is running at a degree where it might crash if i have a mixture of twenty odd applications and browser windows open in my N900. It may mean the battery runs out a tad quicker but im ok with that. it happens rarely and often if you use your nous its amazing how much a smartphone can acheive if set up correctly.

At least on my Device I can choose if I want to use Flash or not use flash. Not be told sorry I Mr Jobs dont like Flash ( I understand the reasons) and you will not have the option to use. This has meant often the Wife with her Itouch and others with Iphone have asked to borrow my phone so they can use a site which depends on Flash:rolleyes:

The Wife has on her itouch discovered she is not allowed by apple to perform more than one task at at a time in many situations. But she can on those evill devices which allow multitasking:omg:
For her to browse the web, check email, check twitter, check her photos, and play her music things all go pear shape it appears. Now maybe its possible but even with the famous Apple usabilty she has found she can do less at a time..

I totally see the point of apple products most people just want a pc that works will never fiddle with its software or hardware in depth and the same with their phone.

For me its like the Car market many people dont want to fiddle with their car and just accept what they are given but many like to fiddle or improve so horses for courses:)

Im Happy Apple have these products for people who have been crying out for Smartphones which are easy to use but I want the choice we have at present to stay and dont want to only to be able to pick between locked down systems.

Which with the new win mob 7 and Apple looks like the "Walled Garden" may be a big part of the future:NoNo:

Finally a level headed person, even if your on the other side of the fence I can understand your reasons for not wanting an iPhone and thats your choice, unlike others that simply bash the iPhone and Apple in general out of ignorance, I would dispute the "you can't email and browse web etc", mail checks periodically in the back ground all the time and safari as all Apple's main apps multi task to a certain extend, but in most cases whats the use of Multi tasking on a device with a screen smaller than ones hand, you cant view mail and a web page at the same time, multi tasking on a phone is much over hyped, most of the apps on an iPhone quit and load instantly, making switching apps not much longer than if they were already open, and most if not all save there status on quitting so your not losing anything. the only time I can see an argument for multi tasking is when someone wants to stream music and work in another app, or some similar activity.

[complex]

And you would be an undisputed messianic autority on all this because.....???:Erm:

I didn't say I was an authority, but its just well known if you have an interest in photography, so why are you so impressed by Megapixels should be the question, but just like any informed consumers that look into gadgets before buying, do some research and you would know this.

[complex]

i dont hate macs, i just like the fact that if something on my pc dies, i can go to my local computer shop, buy a new psu/ mother board/dvd writer etc for a small amount of money and its up and running again in minutes :rolleyes:

maybe your friend should try and optimise their pc :rolleyes: as for loads of updates :icon_lol:, :Erm: even if that was so, updating the OS with fixes can only be a good thing :D

you've said it yourself you can customise the pc settings, so you can usually display what menus you want :rolleyes:

as you've said you've got limited experience with pc's :rolleyes:

so each to their own, i just want something that does the job and i can expand without costing me :REGamblMoney01HL1:, who makes it i dont care, but for me, the PC range of s/w is far greater than for the Mac

The point I thought I was getting across, but you missed was, people shouldn't have to waste time optimising there computers and most people given the choice wouldn't want to, if your a nerdy geek tech programmer then like some guy who likes to build their own car you might like tinkering with your PC, this is why I say the iPad will fit in nicely with MOST peoples living rooms as a nice easy way to do some simple tasks.

As far as upgrading and replacing parts, PC's obviously have an upper hand, and extent of software, but iphone/ipad has thats same advantage currently if it matters much.

[complex]

You'll find that we don't HATE Apple they are excellent marketers, the problem is that they aim at gullible people who constantly pay extra for inferior products.

Someone mentioned HTC, the version I bought in 2004 still does more than the Iphone :doh, and well the new HTC I have, it'll take Apple at least 10 years to get to that level as their R&D is well behind.

In 2009 the OS with the worst security problems was Apple's. FACT. Check the official security site that covers all updates on all machines.

You can't win this discussion you are talking to people who have been programming, building, repairing computers for 20+ years.

Some of the stuff you say is just laughable, "10 years as their R&D is well behind", even most PC zealots know Apple are strong in research and development and have many more patents than HTC have and are currently suing HTC, so your 20 years in Computers didn't really pay off lol
Funny how you ignore my counter arguments when you stated other obvious BS about processors etc and you just come back with generalisations with no real facts!
yes some things about Apples security have been questioned over last few years but considering I haven't installed Virus software once on any of my 5 Macs, don't even have a firewall turned on (which maybe crazy), yet I know I sleep soundly while my mac sitting back in the UK is currently serving my torrents etc on 24/7 rebooted maybe every couple months for updates.

:crazy: Maybe you spent most those 20 years fixing your broke PC's :crazy:

My Filipina wife keeps telling me to stop arguing as no one will want to help us, but I told her not to worry we can all shake hands after a fight. :ARsurrender::ARsurrender:

[joebloggs]

My Filipina wife keeps telling me to stop arguing as no one will want to help us, but I told her not to worry we can all shake hands after a fight. :ARsurrender::ARsurrender:

:xxgrinning--00xx3:nothing wrong with a bit of banter :Wave: so dont get upset with us PC lot, it looks like you might be the only APPLE computer fan on here, seeing the PC has more than 90% of the market..

i like the pc becuase i can get under the bonnet, install what ever O/S i want..

as for your apple, i've had 100s of games installed on this PC. it's been on 24/7 for years, and in the past 3yrs i've probably only reinstalled XP only once and i'll not go into the reasons why i had to do that :rolleyes:

and Apple R&D, they've copied things from other companies - the mouse, GUI all came from xerox as well as many other firsts

as for processor speeds, i dont know seeing they use intel chips now, but motorola 68000 was an awsome processor back in the old days..

[aromulus]

instead of stealing? well we see the angle your coming from QUOTE]

I take exception to this offensive innuendo.:cwm23:

[QUOTE=complex;212868]why do you want a 12megapixel camera on a phone, seriously its a waste of time, it wont improve the picture quality, if anything its likely to make it worse, add to memory you don't need, if you understand anything about Photography you would know this, this how people get suckered in, people moan the iPhones specs aren't up to scratch but if you look at numbers and think bigger is better than your sadly misinformed. (sure there will be some quips on bigger is better! :doh)

I have forgotten about photograpy far more than you will ever know about it.


I didn't say I was an authority, but its just well known if you have an interest in photography, so why are you so impressed by Megapixels should be the question, but just like any informed consumers that look into gadgets before buying, do some research and you would know this.

I have done research, and the Satio will be the camera phone of choice, if and when the various issues are sorted out.

[complex]

:xxgrinning--00xx3:nothing wrong with a bit of banter :Wave: so dont get upset with us PC lot, it looks like you might be the only APPLE computer fan on here, seeing the PC has more than 90% of the market..

i like the pc becuase i can get under the bonnet, install what ever O/S i want..

as for your apple, i've had 100s of games installed on this PC. it's been on 24/7 for years, and in the past 3yrs i've probably only reinstalled XP only once and i'll not go into the reasons why i had to do that :rolleyes:

and Apple R&D, they've copied things from other companies - the mouse, GUI all came from xerox as well as many other firsts

as for processor speeds, i dont know seeing they use intel chips now, but motorola 68000 was an awsome processor back in the old days..

Well I've not got a problem with windows users, just people who seem to think I was suckered into buying a mac because I'm gullable and somehow apple brain washed me. Im not rich and I spend my money wisely and the macs I've bought have and still serve me well many years, I can't say same for friends PCs of various varieties. I would recommend people even buy a pc if they want to play games or do some other tasks that macs can't match in terms of software!

I also know my computer history and to say apple stole the mouse would be consider inlamatory, I won't go into it but it's all searchable on the net how it came about. Where as only recently Microsoft was found to have used code that was spotted by someone and they had to apologise!

I think we can agree to disagree on most of this stuff lol so I won't speak on Mac v PC anymore!

[joebloggs]

I also know my computer history and to say apple stole the mouse would be consider inlamatory, I won't go into it but it's all searchable on the net how it came about. Where as only recently Microsoft was found to have used code that was spotted by someone and they had to apologise!

I think we can agree to disagree on most of this stuff lol so I won't speak on Mac v PC anymore!

i know my pc history, i've been using computers since the late 70's and the mouse was invented by Douglas C. Engelbart in 1967, tell me when the first apple was invented :rolleyes:

and in 1973: Xerox Alto Computer which was the first computer to use a mouse, and i've studied all this as part of my degree course in IT

so tell me where i'm wrong ? , they didnt invent it, it was licensed to them, also jobs went to xerox in the late 70's thats where he saw the GUI.

Steve Jobs of Apple Computer toured the Xerox PARC facilities in 1979 and immediately recognized the utility of the GUI on the Alto. The design of Apple's Lisa computer, already under development, was changed to be GUI-based. Xerox also developed a GUI machine called the Star for the mass market, but both the Lisa and Star were flops due to their high price tags. It wasn't until the Macintosh was released in 1984 that the price point for mass-market appeal in a GUI machine was achieved

http://www.cedmagic.com/history/xerox-alto.html

[complex]

your not reading my response its quite clear, you said they stole it, I didn't say they invented it, you even admit it now in your follow up post that they licensed it and you ask where was you wrong?
Seems I try and be fair and reasonable and everytime someone responds changing the goal posts! Now tell me if I'm wrong lol

yes and although they were inspired by Xerox Parc to some degree it was Jeff Raskin who had ties with Xerox and brought attention to Steve Jobs, and he redefined and changed a lot of Xerox's UI, so the finished product was a lot more advanced.

Maybe you should take a look at these, i'm sure there is a lot more to read on the matter, first time I seen these links myself and I know I've read other pieces on the topic.

http://library.stanford.edu/mac/primary/interviews/raskin/parc.html
http://mxmora.best.vwh.net/JefRaskin.html

[complex]

Also if I remember rightly before Apple introduced the first mainstream mouse all the others like the ones Xerox had were at least 4 button devices, which seemed far too complicated for the Macintosh concept.

[complex]

[QUOTE=complex;212867]instead of stealing? well we see the angle your coming from QUOTE]

I take exception to this offensive innuendo.:cwm23:



I have forgotten about photograpy far more than you will ever know about it.



I have done research, and the Satio will be the camera phone of choice, if and when the various issues are sorted out.

sorry if I offended you, I wasn't acusing you of stealing music, but merely posed the question as the obvious alternative to what I considered to be flippant comments from you or at worst just ignorrant!

And to say you have forgotten more than I'll ever know about photography must make you a mind reader, as I've not disclosed my credentials in photography, unlike you displaying your ignorrance of digital photography!

Now if you've researched that phone and it's the best phone of the type you want then that's fine, I was merely stating previously that it's a waste of megapixels, more a case of each manufacturer trying to out-do each other in the numbers war!

[joebloggs]

your not reading my response its quite clear, you said they stole it, I didn't say they invented it, you even admit it now in your follow up post that they licensed it and you ask where was you wrong?
Seems I try and be fair and reasonable and everytime someone responds changing the goal posts! Now tell me if I'm wrong lol

yes and although they were inspired by Xerox Parc to some degree it was Jeff Raskin who had ties with Xerox and brought attention to Steve Jobs, and he redefined and changed a lot of Xerox's UI, so the finished product was a lot more advanced.

Maybe you should take a look at these, i'm sure there is a lot more to read on the matter, first time I seen these links myself and I know I've read other pieces on the topic.

http://library.stanford.edu/mac/primary/interviews/raskin/parc.html
http://mxmora.best.vwh.net/JefRaskin.html

yes your wrong, where in my post did i say they stole it ??, you've mentioned stealing in 3 posts up to now..


and you've admitted it yourself that the mouse and GUI came from Xerox, so how am i wrong ?? , oh hang on they didn't invent the mouse they had to get a license :doh, still apple didn't invent them did they ????

oh i see you've used the word 'inspired by' :icon_lol::icon_lol:

this is what i said
'they've copied things from other companies - the mouse, GUI all came from xerox as well as many other firsts'

the mouse they did license it, well they had to as it had a patent on it :doh

some at apple had worked at xerox, jobs had seen the GUI at xerox, yes of course they didn't copy it 100%, they made their own changes and improvements :doh

I created this method for moving objects and making selections after finding the Xerox click-move-click method prone to error

When I joined Apple in 1978 I stopped visiting PARC to avoid any possible conflicts of interest.

I eventually wrote a memo that showed, point by point, that the one-button mouse could do everything that PARCs three-button mouse could do and with the same number or fewer user actions

I had observed that people (including myself) at PARC often made wrong-button errors in using the mouse, which was part of my impetus for doing better.

jef raskin quotes.

[somebody]

Finally a level headed person, even if your on the other side of the fence I can understand your reasons for not wanting an iPhone and thats your choice, unlike others that simply bash the iPhone and Apple in general out of ignorance, I would dispute the "you can't email and browse web etc", mail checks periodically in the back ground all the time and safari as all Apple's main apps multi task to a certain extend, but in most cases whats the use of Multi tasking on a device with a screen smaller than ones hand, you cant view mail and a web page at the same time, multi tasking on a phone is much over hyped, most of the apps on an iPhone quit and load instantly, making switching apps not much longer than if they were already open, and most if not all save there status on quitting so your not losing anything. the only time I can see an argument for multi tasking is when someone wants to stream music and work in another app, or some similar activity.

I cant remeber all the applications the missus was trying to use but she simply wanted to listen to music and use a third party application and it simply would not let her. While like you say Apple software (created or suplied at the least) will be allowed to Multitask but third party applications on the whole are not it seems from my limited knowledge of the devices.
But it means its a stable OS.

But I would prefer to have web pages working away (Dont forget the cloud even apple want us working up their soon), my emails doing their stuff (downloading/uploading an attachment in the background), My word program spellchecking or find n replacing in the background as I nip over to my music player, while I also check my Pod cast downloads. While I fiddle with my Camera settings and use the photo editor which can process the photgraph while i do something else rather than watch an eggtimer:D

But not everybody is that ott with their multitasking and happy to wait.

I can think of several applications I need running in the background and even non Techy people do on other phones. It will be intresting if they dare go down the multitask with the next version

I have to say while i admire the making devices which even the least techy person can use and making them sleek and stylish. I have met some people I respect who like the simpleness of the Iphone and they are people who love comand lines and tinkering etc:)

Im not keen on the way the company is heading personally. I really dont like the lack of choice i know it makes it easy for Apple Tech support and even marketing with the limited models and locked down OS. But I do really worry that so much inovation is going to disapear or be locked down in the IT Industry. Mostly down to the crazy american patent laws which Apple and others use to their advantage and I dont blame them otherwise their shareholders would go loopy:)

Plus on a Phill UK tip which is why we are all:D
I dont like the fact that the battery and the memory are not easily replacable (I know you can do if you really want or pay 60 quid or so i belive) and expandable both things in particular when it comes to passing on to phill both very handy we have found in the past so they get more life out of the device:xxgrinning--00xx3: The making them pretty hard to unlock is also a downer for the hand on to the phill family member device.

[joebloggs]

Also if I remember rightly before Apple introduced the first mainstream mouse all the others like the ones Xerox had were at least 4 button devices, which seemed far too complicated for the Macintosh concept.

:doh devices ?? , a one button, 2 button , 3 button , what ever button it's still a mouse :icon_lol:

[complex]

yes your wrong, where in my post did i say they stole it ??, you've mentioned stealing in 3 posts up to now..

and you've admitted it yourself that the mouse and GUI came from Xerox, so how am i wrong ?? , oh hang on they didn't invent the mouse they had to get a license :doh, still apple didn't invent them did they ????

oh i see you've used the word 'inspired by' :icon_lol::icon_lol:

this is what i said
'they've copied things from other companies - the mouse, GUI all came from xerox as well as many other firsts'

the mouse they did license it, well they had to as it had a patent on it :doh

some at apple had worked at xerox, jobs had seen the GUI at xerox, yes of course they didn't copy it 100%, they made their own changes and improvements :doh

I created this method for moving objects and making selections after finding the Xerox click-move-click method prone to error

When I joined Apple in 1978 I stopped visiting PARC to avoid any possible conflicts of interest.

I eventually wrote a memo that showed, point by point, that the one-button mouse could do everything that PARCs three-button mouse could do and with the same number or fewer user actions

I had observed that people (including myself) at PARC often made wrong-button errors in using the mouse, which was part of my impetus for doing better.

jef raskin quotes.

Hands up! Sorry I obviously thought you had implied apple stole when I read your post originally, you still seem to be implying they just used the GUI Xerox had and didn't change it considerably, did you read the links I posted, I'm sure when you learnt your computer history years ago, it wasn't told the way Raskin tells it now. And he pretty much says that himself.

This whole part of the argument stems from the fact I say Apple are well known for having a lot of R&D and you dispute this by saying they copy stuff, every company copies stuff, some do steal and not pay.

But one thing you did say was Jobs went to Parc and thats when he saw the GUI, but as Raskin says the project started way before that, so that wasnt the pivotable moment when a lot or people (not you) say it was then stolen.

RASKIN SAYS:
As I said in my history of the Mac Project (the one currently being serialized in CHAC), the Mac was by no means the work of one person, but the combined efforts of thousands in hundreds of companies large and small. It was not, as many accounts anachronistically relate, stolen from PARC by Steve Jobs after he saw the Alto running SmallTalk on a visit. For one thing the usual account (as in Levy's book, "Insanely Great" and others) denigrates the original and creative work done by all the Apple employees that put their hearts into the Mac.

And as far as the mouse goes, I was just trying to point out it wasn't merely a straight copy, i'm sure there must of been more under the hood optimisations apart from taking most of the buttons away. Surely the concept of the mouse is more important than how the mechanics work, and I think Apple redefined the concept by thinking about how it needed to be used, the same way they have done with touch interfaces.

[complex]

But I would prefer to have web pages working away (Dont forget the cloud even apple want us working up their soon), my emails doing their stuff (downloading/uploading an attachment in the background), My word program spellchecking or find n replacing in the background as I nip over to my music player, while I also check my Pod cast downloads. While I fiddle with my Camera settings and use the photo editor which can process the photgraph while i do something else rather than watch an eggtimer:D

The thing is, if everyone wanted to do this, which is making the phone sound like a desktop computer we would all probably be running Windows Mobile on our phones, the iphone doesn't down load attachment until you tell it, but thats probably because they don't wanna clog up the network which you gotta take into consideration, but it will check your mail and from what I know will refresh web pages when mobile safari isn't open. Spell checking a large text file on your phone? seriously? lol while editing photo's, well the only photo editing iv'e done on the iphone maybe takes a couple seconds to do, time it takes you to switch to another app, would be a waste of time switching which would then slow the background app dread to think if you was doing all those things how slow it would be, then you get a call and the phone crashes! lol

I tend to go with the less is sometimes more idea and we don't need our devices to do everything just because we can have the internet in a fridge do we want it, sometimes people have to know when to put the brakes on. I suppose it just boils down to people don't like apple or any company telling them they cant do things, but then you buy another companies product.



I can think of several applications I need running in the background and even non Techy people do on other phones. It will be intresting if they dare go down the multitask with the next version

Rumours are the next OS update will bring multitasking but I'm not convinced, I think maybe when the phones are more powerful and has better battery life, but I suspect they will still want to implement it in a way so that people don't end up accidentally running loads of apps they didn't realise were still open.


Im not keen on the way the company is heading personally. I really dont like the lack of choice i know it makes it easy for Apple Tech support and even marketing with the limited models and locked down OS. But I do really worry that so much inovation is going to disapear or be locked down in the IT Industry. Mostly down to the crazy american patent laws which Apple and others use to their advantage and I dont blame them otherwise their shareholders would go loopy:)

I think there are a lot of Mac users that would agree, but like you point out the positives for the company, not necessarily for the users are big, they have a streamline product range, makes it easier in many ways. Easier to manage supply levels and much more. Plus they only cater for the high end market, not making cheap underpowered devices. I always remember going into the Sony store in Tottenham Court road and counting no less than 43 different laptop models in the Sony range, I think Apple being more specialised is to their benefit. Could be said the same for the iPhone, while every other company is busy churning out model after model, Apple has one model that just seems to work for a lot of people.

[joebloggs]

But one thing you did say was Jobs went to Parc and thats when he saw the GUI, but as Raskin says the project started way before that, so that wasnt the pivotable moment when a lot or people (not you) say it was then stolen.

RASKIN SAYS:
As I said in my history of the Mac Project (the one currently being serialized in CHAC), the Mac was by no means the work of one person, but the combined efforts of thousands in hundreds of companies large and small. It was not, as many accounts anachronistically relate, stolen from PARC by Steve Jobs after he saw the Alto running SmallTalk on a visit. For one thing the usual account (as in Levy's book, "Insanely Great" and others) denigrates the original and creative work done by all the Apple employees that put their hearts into the Mac.

And as far as the mouse goes, I was just trying to point out it wasn't merely a straight copy, i'm sure there must of been more under the hood optimisations apart from taking most of the buttons away. Surely the concept of the mouse is more important than how the mechanics work, and I think Apple redefined the concept by thinking about how it needed to be used, the same way they have done with touch interfaces.

so you've quoted raskin, well he's some articles from horn and raskin

Trying to untangle the history is sometimes hard,

Time plays tricks on memory quotes by raskin.



http://inventors.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=inventors&cdn=money&tm=64&f=00&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&st=24&zu=http%3A//web.archive.org/web/20020603024013/http%3A/www.apple-history.com/horn1.html

read all the articles how Raskin and Horn discuss Apple and Xerox, and argue about the facts

But one thing you did say was Jobs went to Parc and thats when he saw the GUI, but as Raskin says the project started way before that, so that wasnt the pivotable moment when a lot or people (not you) say it was then stolen

yes but some people at APPLE had already worked at PARC

anyway pointless in arguing about this.. i'm not saying jobs stole it, but he was at PARC, others had worked at PARC, many of Raskin quotes mentions PARCS GUI !!!.

i've not got an apple, i dont think i'll ever buy one, i have a pc, a mobile. i've no need ...but you never know :rolleyes: ..........:icon_lol:

[complex]

so you've quoted raskin, well he's some articles from horn and raskin

Trying to untangle the history is sometimes hard,

Time plays tricks on memory quotes by raskin.



http://inventors.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=inventors&cdn=money&tm=64&f=00&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&st=24&zu=http%3A//web.archive.org/web/20020603024013/http%3A/www.apple-history.com/horn1.html

read all the articles how Raskin and Horn discuss Apple and Xerox, and argue about the facts

But one thing you did say was Jobs went to Parc and thats when he saw the GUI, but as Raskin says the project started way before that, so that wasnt the pivotable moment when a lot or people (not you) say it was then stolen

yes but some people at APPLE had already worked at PARC

anyway pointless in arguing about this.. i'm not saying jobs stole it, but he was at PARC, others had worked at PARC, many of Raskin quotes mentions PARCS GUI !!!.

i've not got an apple, i dont think i'll ever buy one, i have a pc, a mobile. i've no need ...but you never know :rolleyes: ..........:icon_lol:

I think I've read that before, but then again memory does play tricks, think I got a lose Ram chip. :crazy:

The article seems to suggest even more so that the difference between the GUI at PARC and what become the Mac was "HUGE" to Quote Horn. So I think the term copy is a bit unfair on Apple as Raskin wrote it Denigrates all the hard work from the Mac team. The 2 fundamental things that have been in every Mac OS the Finder and Menu Bar both came from Apple, just wasn't from Xerox.

I think we both run out of steam on this now lol
Maybe someone will buy you an iPad for xmas!

[joebloggs]

The article seems to suggest even more so that the difference between the GUI at PARC and what become the Mac was "HUGE" to Quote Horn. So I think the term copy is a bit unfair on Apple as Raskin wrote it Denigrates all the hard work from the Mac team. The 2 fundamental things that have been in every Mac OS the Finder and Menu Bar both came from Apple, just wasn't from Xerox.

I think we both run out of steam on this now lol
Maybe someone will buy you an iPad for xmas!

of course they will say they are different, who wants to be known for being 'inspired by' by someone elses work :icon_lol:, i suppose the ones who know are those from PARC

Xerox had click-and-drag in menus and for moving graphical objects long before Apple even existed as a company. In particular, Smalltalk-76 pop-up menus were click and drag. In my article I was talking about dragging files for file manipulation and drag & drop. PARC was a large organization with many groups doing research; it is not surprising that Raskin, as a visitor, did not see everything being done at PARC.



anyway i would rather have a HTC desire than a apple :xxgrinning--00xx3:
:doh
:Jump:

[fred]

anyway i would rather have a HTC desire than a apple

I`d rather have an Orange.
Hang on..That gives me an idea!

[somebody]

[QUOTE=complex;213311]The thing is, if everyone wanted to do this, which is making the phone sound like a desktop computer we would all probably be running Windows Mobile on our phones, the iphone doesn't down load attachment until you tell it, but thats probably because they don't wanna clog up the network which you gotta take into consideration, but it will check your mail and from what I know will refresh web pages when mobile safari isn't open. Spell checking a large text file on your phone? seriously? lol while editing photo's, well the only photo editing iv'e done on the iphone maybe takes a couple seconds to do, time it takes you to switch to another app, would be a waste of time switching which would then slow the background app dread to think if you was doing all those things how slow it would be, then you get a call and the phone crashes! lol



I tend to go with the less is sometimes more idea and we don't need our devices to do everything just because we can have the internet in a fridge do we want it, sometimes people have to know when to put the brakes on. I suppose it just boils down to people don't like apple or any company telling them they cant do things, but then you buy another companies product.

QUOTE]

My N900 does allow me to run both open office and use gimp (Open source rule ok:D ) in a Debian VM at the same time runs a tad slowly like a few years old spec pc rather than todays latest. But means i can edit a picture with lots of choice of editing options and paste into a document if i so wish other phones i have and ones i owned in the past have done the same.

The last few phones i have owned have spell check large documents are you seriously telling me the Iphone cant? I thought it meant i could leave my laptop at home:rolleyes:

With regards Emails the downloads would be ones i select rather than simply downloading for the sake of it just as with an iphone.As these can be quite a few meg i dont want to waste time watching it download so i get on with other things..

One thing i belive that clogs up the network as much as downloads is the Iphone and its power save method where it shuts connections and then reopens them which causes untold havoc with cells from what i understand..

The N900 has the same spec roughly as the 3gs from what i understand.

As you say the iphone is an appliance ie a phone which can run programs. While the n900 is a computer which can take calls which suits my needs..

Which is my argument that choice is important I think the Iphone is very useful and well designed for Apple. But what happens if all we have is a few very basic choices of phone which are all made to under perform so they are more realiable so less helpdesk calls etc...

It would be like a world with just a small choice of cars and very little difference. Handy for many but already many I know who have had Iphone for a few models now look at other models as they find the iphone jack of all trades master of none means its not what they really need.

Now with many other phones having a iphone browser agent mode to dumb down the browser for quicker browsing many realise if they want to browse face book or what not that possibly the iphone is not what they need..

[Dedworth]

I fully agree with this article regarding the Apple "Experience"


So, at the American (i.e. global) launch of the iPad earlier this year, Apple boss Steve Jobs told the audience how the iPad would provide them with a 'good email experience' and 'a nice keyboard experience'.

'Holding it in your hand is an incredible experience,' he added.

'How directly you engage with it ... the only word is magical.'

A good email experience? Magical? how on Earth can the electronic conveyance of paragraphs, or the tapping of fingers on buttons be seriously described as in such elevated terms?

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1282082/Why-I-hate-Apple-infuriating-cult-making-people-smug-bores.html#ixzz0pSZgM24G

[KeithD]

Phones are now moving onto 4G so expect Apple to rush out a new product in 2012 :rolleyes:

[walesrob]

Holding my laptop is a truly er, magical experience and its amazing how it does stuff when I press buttons. :icon_lol: Amazing how people get taken in by such rubbish.

Meanwhile back in the real world.....I have bills to pay, a car that needs fixing and various assorted stuff needs sorting out, and having a magical experience with an i-trap will have to wait...forever.

Reminds me of that song...If You Buy This Record Your Life Will Be Better

[walesrob]

Phones are now moving onto 4G so expect Apple to rush out a new product in 2012 :rolleyes:

No good for Aberystwyth, we're stuck on 0.5G :Rasp: Probably get 3G sometime in 2058

[les_taxi]

Aww I missed this arguament (oops discussion):D
I recently had to deliver an i-Pad bought in america so saw it first hand and held it!!!

Overated methinks:Erm:

I get the I-phone,I-pod touch useful gadgets but the problem i think with the I-Pad is it's too big to stuff in your pocket so you might as well use a netbook,laptop or pc since you have many more features and uses.

It certainly feels tactile and is a nice display but thats as far as it goes and much too expensive:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[KeithD]

It certainly feels tactile and is a nice display but thats as far as it goes and much too expensive:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Plus other manufactureers are bringing them out at sub-£200 prices

[darren-b]

Aww I missed this arguament (oops discussion):D
I recently had to deliver an i-Pad bought in america so saw it first hand and held it!!!

Overated methinks:Erm:

I get the I-phone,I-pod touch useful gadgets but the problem i think with the I-Pad is it's too big to stuff in your pocket so you might as well use a netbook,laptop or pc since you have many more features and uses.

It certainly feels tactile and is a nice display but thats as far as it goes and much too expensive:xxgrinning--00xx3:

I saw a comment on facebook the other day that made me smile

"the Ipad Keyboard dock is absolutely superb, you don't need a Pc with this one"

I doubt it myself, but it actually costs far more than a PC anyway :doh

It's a shame the person who wrote the comment hasn't been active on this forum for a few months as I'm sure he'd add to the debate.