Todays Good News - Law Abiding Householder 1 Dead Burglar 0

[Dedworth]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8612829.stm

A murder charge against a man who stabbed a teenage burglar to death in his mother's Nottinghamshire home is to be dropped, his lawyers have said.

Tyler Juett, 17, and a boy of 14 broke into the property in Old Basford in March 2009 and were then confronted by 23-year-old Omari Roberts.

:xxgrinning--00xx3:Well done Mr Roberts - a useless piece of garbage permanently removed from society. Untold thousands of taxpayers £'s saved that would otherwise have been racked up in police/court/jail costs, benefits, housing etc etc

[David House]

Don't you think this is more than a little over the top? No-one knows the whole circumstances and without ever wishing to defend a burgar any response to such an intrusion must be proportionate to the threat faced.
Maybe it was. Maybe the householder was being threatened and his life in danger. If so a claim of self defence is justified. If not then surely there are many other responses to be made without resorting to extreme force.
I live in Wisbech, which is where the infamous Tony Martin lives. If you recall he was jailed some years ago in similar circumstances when he confronted a teenage burglar and shot him. His jailing caused a national outrage but I know a little more of the circumstances, which were much more complicated than reported and I strongly feel that Mr Martin deserved to go to jail. Maybe there is more to this case than meets the eye so I prefer to let the legal people decide rather than make ill informed pronouncements.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8612829.stm

A murder charge against a man who stabbed a teenage burglar to death in his mother's Nottinghamshire home is to be dropped, his lawyers have said.

Tyler Juett, 17, and a boy of 14 broke into the property in Old Basford in March 2009 and were then confronted by 23-year-old Omari Roberts.

:xxgrinning--00xx3:Well done Mr Roberts - a useless piece of garbage permanently removed from society. Untold thousands of taxpayers £'s saved that would otherwise have been racked up in police/court/jail costs, benefits, housing etc etc

[Dedworth]

Don't you think this is more than a little over the top? No-one knows the whole circumstances and without ever wishing to defend a burgar any response to such an intrusion must be proportionate to the threat faced.
Maybe it was. Maybe the householder was being threatened and his life in danger. If so a claim of self defence is justified. If not then surely there are many other responses to be made without resorting to extreme force.
I live in Wisbech, which is where the infamous Tony Martin lives. If you recall he was jailed some years ago in similar circumstances when he confronted a teenage burglar and shot him. His jailing caused a national outrage but I know a little more of the circumstances, which were much more complicated than reported and I strongly feel that Mr Martin deserved to go to jail. Maybe there is more to this case than meets the eye so I prefer to let the legal people decide rather than make ill informed pronouncements.

I find it perfectly justifiable - the scrote should not have broken into someone else's house, in doing so he took it upon himself to face whatever threats, hazards and dangers lay within. He drew the short straw and was killed. I really don't give a monkeys about level of threat and proportionate force the crims break in and as such are a threat to the householder and/or his family, if they leave the property in a body bag it was their own fault.

I was outraged that Tony Martin was jailed, it was a shame he was only able to wound burglar number two who has since continued his life of crime and caused his victims untold misery whilst costing the the taxpayer hundreds of thousands. People like Messrs Martin and Roberts should be given an OBE for services to crime reduction.

In a similar vein I'm always bouyed up to hear of joyriders crashing and killing themselves. The earlier they meet their deaths the greater the chances of innocent road users and pedestrians not suffering the same fate.

[David House]

So if they get away and are subsequently caught, charged and found guilty do you think they should be executed? Was hanging for stealing sheep an appropriate punishment? I thought we had become a little more civilised than that, but maybe I was wrong.
I find it perfectly justifiable - the scrote should not have broken into someone else's house, in doing so he took it upon himself to face whatever threats, hazards and dangers lay within. He drew the short straw and was killed. I really don't give a monkeys about level of threat and proportionate force the crims break in and as such are a threat to the householder and/or his family, if they leave the property in a body bag it was their own fault.

I was outraged that Tony Martin was jailed, it was a shame he was only able to wound burglar number two who has since continued his life of crime and caused his victims untold misery whilst costing the the taxpayer hundreds of thousands. People like Messrs Martin and Roberts should be given an OBE for services to crime reduction.

In a similar vein I'm always bouyed up to hear of joyriders crashing and killing themselves. The earlier they meet their deaths the greater the chances of innocent road users and pedestrians not suffering the same fate.

[Dedworth]

So if they get away and are subsequently caught, charged and found guilty do you think they should be executed? Was hanging for stealing sheep an appropriate punishment? I thought we had become a little more civilised than that, but maybe I was wrong.


You mentioned executions not me so I'm not prepared to enter a discussion on that one except to say that the rope and cane feature in Singapores judicial system and their nation suffers less from the effects of crime than ours.

The pond life (burglars and car thieves) referred to in earlier posts decided to step outside the bounds of what civilised society considers acceptable behaviour ie they broke the law and put others at risk. In doing so they put themselves at risk and paid a high price. Todays punishments for criminals are woefully limpwristed and lenient and I'm always encouraged when they score an own goal.

[les_taxi]

I find it perfectly justifiable - the scrote should not have broken into someone else's house, in doing so he took it upon himself to face whatever threats, hazards and dangers lay within. He drew the short straw and was killed. I really don't give a monkeys about level of threat and proportionate force the crims break in and as such are a threat to the householder and/or his family, if they leave the property in a body bag it was their own fault.

I was outraged that Tony Martin was jailed, it was a shame he was only able to wound burglar number two who has since continued his life of crime and caused his victims untold misery whilst costing the the taxpayer hundreds of thousands. People like Messrs Martin and Roberts should be given an OBE for services to crime reduction.

In a similar vein I'm always bouyed up to hear of joyriders crashing and killing themselves. The earlier they meet their deaths the greater the chances of innocent road users and pedestrians not suffering the same fate.

:omg:I am with dedworth totally on this one it must be a first:xxgrinning--00xx3:

My plan would be this,Any person breaking into someones house looses their human rights thats the deal.

Don't fancy that then don't break in and scare the **** out of people who don't know wtf is going on and defend their family and property often having been woke up by the intruder and not having chance to reason what's happening.

Tony martin is a hero in my book and most of the population I would bet:xxgrinning--00xx3:

I would like to bet if this happened to any politician and their family was put at risk then no one would ever be jailed for defending their property.

[Dedworth]

:omg:I am with dedworth totally on this one it must be a first:xxgrinning--00xx3:

My plan would be this,Any person breaking into someones house looses their human rights thats the deal.

Don't fancy that then don't break in and scare the **** out of people who don't know wtf is going on and defend their family and property often having been woke up by the intruder and not having chance to reason what's happening.

Tony martin is a hero in my book and most of the population I would bet:xxgrinning--00xx3:

I would like to bet if this happened to any politician and their family was put at risk then no one would ever be jailed for defending their property.

Thanks Les - footie aside I'm glad we've got some common ground :)

[Arthur Little]

Hmm ... without knowing the FULL circumstances, I [think] I'm inclined to say :iagree: with both Dedworth and Les - particularly in the case of Tony Martin.

[triple5]

I think the law should be quite clear on this - that anybody who wishes to break into another persons property takes the risk of being injured or murdered, and that everybody has the right to defend themsleves/family/property in whatever way they see fit.

Over the past year or so I've read a number of very nasty cases where good people have been subjected to awful crimes within their own homes. It's just not on :NoNo:

An Englishman's home is his castle!

[johncar54]

I think the law should be quite clear on this - that anybody who wishes to break into another persons property takes the risk of being injured or murdered, and that everybody has the right to defend themselves/family/property in whatever way they see fit.

Sorry for repeating this yet again.

In UK one has the right to take life to PROTECT ones life or property or that that of another. There are a number of recorded instances where no action was taken in such cases.

The Tony Martin 'red herring' did not change that. He said before the burglary he was going to kill the next person who broke into his house (proves intent to kill rather than to protect). Then he shot him in the back as he was going away from him and then lied about what happened. He should have been advised to plead guilty.

[David House]

I have actually met Tony Martin so do have a pretty good understanding of what motivated him.
Whilst I can understand why people believe that killing a burglar is an acceptable response, and no more than they deserve, I also think that if as a society we allow the "my home is my castle" belief to become law then it is a slippery slope to somewhere we don't want to be.
The same laws need to be applied where-ever an offence is commited, no exceptions. If you don't apply that as a golden rule think of the consequences. If what-ever you do within your own home is outside the law then child molesting and wife beating become acceptable behaviour.
If you passed a law saying that you can take whatever action you wish to to defend either person or property then there would also be unwished for consequences. Would it be then be OK for one kid to knife another who has stolen his mobile phone? He might be charged with carrying a knife, but not with murder?
No, I think the law is about right where it is. That a response has to be proportionate to the threat. If a householder believes that his, or another's life is threatened, then self defence can be claimed and, as has been frequently demonstrated, will succeed. To simply open up the law to allow a householder to take an extreme response without any thought of punishment would soon produce results most of us would not want. No-one should be above the law, at any time or where-ever they happen to be.

[Dedworth]

Another own goal :xxgrinning--00xx3::appl:


A suspected burglar was electrocuted and killed after breaking into an electricity substation.

The 30-year-old man suffered a 33,000-volt electric shock while apparently trying to steal copper cable.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1266193/Burglar-killed-33-000-volt-shock-trying-steal-cable-electricity-substation.html#ixzz0lBHB1U3B

[johncar54]

Quote- If you passed a law saying that you can take whatever action you wish to to defend either person or property then there would also be unwished for consequences. Would it be then be OK for one kid to knife another who has stolen his mobile phone? He might be charged with carrying a knife, but not with murder?

I worked on a case in about 1965 when a South London butcher who was on the way to the night safe to bank his days taking was attacked by 3 robbers. He pulled a knife from his sleeve, which he had been carrying "to defend his money" and in the struggle one of the robbers was killed.

On the directions of the DPP, the butcher was not changed with any offence, not even offensive weapon.

At the coroner's court a verdict of justifiable homicide was recorded and the Coroner said, Under common law a person had the right to take life to defend his live, his property of that of another person.

As reported above, one must be able to show that the degree of force was reasonable. Each case is dependant on the facts of that case. No absolute rule can be given.