More EU flights cancel arrivals at NAIA

[Win2Win]

The arrival of another KML Royal Dutch Airlines flight from Amsterdam, Netherlands, at the Ninoy Aquino International Airport, was cancelled on Sunday following the suspension of flights due to ash clouds hovering over European skies.

More... (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view/20100418-265017/More-EU-flights-cancel-arrivals-at-NAIA)

[Englishman2010]

The arrival of another KML Royal Dutch Airlines flight from Amsterdam, Netherlands, at the Ninoy Aquino International Airport, was cancelled on Sunday following the suspension of flights due to ash clouds hovering over European skies.

More... (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view/20100418-265017/More-EU-flights-cancel-arrivals-at-NAIA)

Yeah, you don't need to tell me :Brick:

[KeithD]

Looks like the EU have managed to make a complete mess of it with all tests coming back 100% clear so far..... why did it take 4 days to run the tests??? :doh

[Englishman2010]

They have done the tests, but at the same time our own Gov't and Met Office are saying it wont be safe to fly for at least 24 more hours.
I think this is a ploy by GB to win a few more votes. If he keeps UK airspace closed for another 72 hours or so and launches a huge floatilla of ships to rescue stranded Brits from Spain or wherever, he thinks he is going to look like a one eyed Superman and get re-elected. ******.

[mistermatty]

so fri / sat and sun manila bound flights all cancelled !!!

[Englishman2010]

Even if the Amsterdam - Manila flight goes on Monday, I can't get on it because my 07.45 flight from Birmingham to Amsterdam is cancelled.

[keithAngel]

Even if the Amsterdam - Manila flight goes on Monday, I can't get on it because my 07.45 flight from Birmingham to Amsterdam is cancelled.

Englishman I recomend you watch this :xxgrinning--00xx3:

n1pg1zpNgB0

[KeithD]

The EU and science community haven't actually done any tests in the cloud, they are just going by made-up computer models :doh ... Test flights should have been done into the cloud before it even reached the EU :NoNo:

...and now as the airline test flights all come in that bugger all is wrong, the EU are starting to back track after this major cock-up.

The cloud hits the US East Coast today... are they shutting down? Nope. Why? Because the parts per million of ash is not a problem, the same as it isn't a problem over the EU.

When Mt Pinutubo went up, the same level of ash was in the upper atmosphere for TWO YEARS :doh

When the volcanos on Indonesia goes off, SE Asia doesn't shut-down.

[Englishman2010]

Englishman I recomend you watch this :xxgrinning--00xx3:

n1pg1zpNgB0

:laugher: Nice one, something to cheer me up:xxgrinning--00xx3: Just waiting for my travel agent to get back to me regarding a flight on Wednesday and extending my stay by another 3 days to make up for the 5 days I will have lost.

Agree with Win2Win's comment, SE Asia doesnt close down when a volcano in the ring of fire goes off, and there is no way the US would shut it's airspace. the interfering H&S lefties in the Union of Socialist Euro States are really pee'ing me off.

[fred]

The EU and science community haven't actually done any tests in the cloud, they are just going by made-up computer models :doh ... Test flights should have been done into the cloud before it even reached the EU :NoNo:

...and now as the airline test flights all come in that bugger all is wrong, the EU are starting to back track after this major cock-up.

The cloud hits the US East Coast today... are they shutting down? Nope. Why? Because the parts per million of ash is not a problem, the same as it isn't a problem over the EU.

When Mt Pinutubo went up, the same level of ash was in the upper atmosphere for TWO YEARS :doh

When the volcanos on Indonesia goes off, SE Asia doesn't shut-down.


I read the BBC link yesterday where Scientists on test flights said tests confirmed that correct decisions were made with no over reaction?

[KeithD]

I read the BBC link yesterday where Scientists on test flights said tests confirmed that correct decisions were made with no over reaction?
:doh And all the other tests flights that have proved 100% negative. The scientists only started work on the cloud 2 days ago! They are working on scientific data, not actual real-life enviromental data.... The airline industry is, and it has proved safe to fly.

No test data exists of how many parts per million are required to damage an engine, so the ban is based solely on theory which is wrong.

[fred]

probably they sent up the global warming bunch..

[KeithD]

You can read what the pilots think on their forum... some very interesting bit http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/412103-ash-clouds-threaten-air-traffic-post5644153.html

[fred]

A post from that forum..


Another thought for you....

If you intentionally go flying through this ash cloud on a revenue flight and something happens (major or minor) who is to blame for it?

Answer: The Captain.

The Captain at the end of the day takes fully "legal" responsibility for his aircraft and in a court of law he would be fined/imprisonment/loss of job.

We have no legal protection if we knowingly fly through a known ash cloud cloud. It's not the company that would get fined (hmm they would be liable as well - probably).

Food for thought - Is it worth the risk?

[KeithD]

That's wrong though, the employer is responsible, unless it's the pilots aircraft. Pilots are only responsible for the safety of passengers, they are not legally liable for anything that happens to them. That falls on the airline.

However, as the airlines say they are ready to fly, then the airlines own insurers would have OK'd the flights as safe, they certainly aren't going going to risk even a small % chance of having to pay out £100's Millions

3 Major volcanic incidents in 30 years says it all really, and they flew through the main cloud, not over a 1000 miles away.

[KeithD]

Confirms what I said about it all being theory and the EU following the scientists blindly over the cliff again!!


Giovanni Bisignani, director-general, the International Air Transport Association, the airlines' trade body was scathing about the European response to the ash cloud.
"This is a European embarrassment and it's a European mess,” he told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme.
“It took five days to organise a conference call with the ministers of transport. Europeans are still using a system that's based on a theoretical model, instead of taking a decision based on facts and risk assessment.
"This decision (to close airspace) has to be based on facts and supported by risk assessment. We need to replace this blanket approach with a practical approach."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7605794/Volcanic-ash-cloud-restrictions-embarrassing-say-airlines.html

[fred]

However, as the airlines say they are ready to fly, then the airlines own insurers would have OK'd the flights as safe, they certainly aren't going going to risk even a small % chance of having to pay out £100's Millions

Im sure I read that BA are not insured for this?? They have to pay out from their own purse I read. I wonder how many other airlines are in the same boat??
(Did I say boat?)

[KeithD]

Im sure I read that BA are not insured for this?? They have to pay out from their own purse I read. I wonder how many other airlines are in the same boat??
(Did I say boat?)
Would be illegal, as companies have to have insurance by law to cover members of the public.

[fred]

Would be illegal, as companies have to have insurance by law to cover members of the public.


LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Airlines, facing huge losses in revenue due to the volcanic ash cloud that has prevented aircraft from flying in northern Europe, won't be able to make insurance claims to cover those losses because they aren't covered for such an event, insurers say.

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201004160832dowjonesdjonline000545&title=insurers-say-airlines-some-passengers-not-covered-for-volcano-disruption

[KeithD]

LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Airlines, facing huge losses in revenue due to the volcanic ash cloud that has prevented aircraft from flying in northern Europe, won't be able to make insurance claims to cover those losses because they aren't covered for such an event, insurers say.

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201004160832dowjonesdjonline000545&title=insurers-say-airlines-some-passengers-not-covered-for-volcano-disruption
It does start by saying they are covered which is what I said, it's a legal requirment in the UK.

As they have been grounded they would fly at their own risk, the same as if you get a safety recall on a car and crash because you didn't have it fixed, you are not covered.

[KeithD]

Google Earth ash cloud:http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/2010105-0415/NorthAtlantic.A2010105.1330.250m.kml

It may take 2-3 minutes to download.

It clearly shows the cloud, and it's the brown bit you don't fly through. But we know where it is and the altitude.