Isn't It Stange ... But True?

[Arthur Little]

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how £20 seems such a large amount when you donate it to the Church ... but such a small amount when you go shopping?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how an hour seems so long in passing when you're in church ... and so short a time when you are watching an exciting film?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how everyone wants front-row seats at a concert ... but do whatever possible to sit in the back row in church?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how difficult and boring it is to read one chapter of the Bible ... yet so easy to read 100 pages of a novel?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how we tend to believe everything magazines and newspapers tell us ... yet question the words contained in the Bible?

[triple5]

I've seen some of those quotes before. whats's the moral though, having a belief in God is boring :Erm:

[KeithD]

Isn't it strange that when I used to put 50p in the collection plate & take a pound out I'd get funny look? :Cuckoo:

[Arthur Little]

I've seen some of those *quotes before. whats's the moral though, having a belief in God is boring :Erm:

I discovered them in a Church Magazine, Paul ... and I thought: "How very true!" - especially in the UK, where regular church-attendance appears to have sadly :bigcry: diminished from the 20th century onwards.

[KeithD]

.... regular church-attendance appears to have sadly :bigcry: diminished from the 20th century onwards.
That's because we've seen the light :Erm:

[Arthur Little]

Isn't it strange that when I used to put 50p in the collection plate & take a pound out I'd get funny look? :Cuckoo:

Ah ... now, if it'd been the other way round - and you'd put £1 IN and taken a handful of dross amounting to 50p OUT- folk might've understood you'd been needing loose change for the parking meter! :icon_lol:

[sparky]

thats cos its a fabricated load of nonsense invented by power hungry aristocrats and perpetuated by facists and pedos

[Arthur Little]

thats cos *its a fabricated load of nonsense invented by power hungry aristocrats and perpetuated by facists and pedos

:Erm: ... *WHAT is?

[gWaPito]

thats cos its a fabricated load of nonsense invented by power hungry aristocrats and perpetuated by facists and pedos

:omg:
Nice to know where you stand then Sparky.

I wonder if your filipina wife and family know of your standing of the church?
If not, I would some how drop it into a chat.

Im a believer.:D

[gWaPito]

:Erm: ... *WHAT is?

I think Sparky is refering to the Bible Arthur

[sparky]

my mom is a catholic- i was brought up catholic and Myrna is catholic. when i say brought up i mean catholic schools taught by preists and nuns- bunch of sadistic perverts i may add

they are entitled to believe what they wish but its still a load of baloney. most of the bible was *******ised by french bishops to suit their purpose.

[gWaPito]

my mom is a catholic- i was brought up catholic and Myrna is catholic. when i say brought up i mean catholic schools taught by preists and nuns- bunch of sadistic perverts i may add

they are entitled to believe what they wish but its still a load of baloney. most of the bible was *******ised by french bishops to suit their purpose.

Umm...food for thought Sparky

[KeithD]

Next Sparky will be telling us the tooth fairy and Santa don't exist :doh

[Arthur Little]

I think Sparky is refering to the Bible Arthur

Mmm ... I gathered THAT :rolleyes: ... at least, I'd assumed he was referring to the Church in general; of course the two things go hand-in-hand, and I wanted to provide him with an "opening" to back-up his ... :Erm: ... [shall we say?] "sweeping statement" about an organisation to which, like YOU, I'm proud to be associated with!

[Doc Alan]

Isn't it strange...that the "Goal Amount" to support the Forum is 30 GBP, and this month 55 GBP has been received :doh
The Church's loss is the Forum's gain :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

:omg:
I wonder if your filipina wife and family know of your standing of the church?
If not, I would some how drop it into a chat.

:gp: ... EXACTLY what I'd been thinking, too!! :rolleyes: I WONDER what their reaction would be??

[sparky]

i live by 2 codes

its nice to be nice
and

treat others as you like to be treated yourself

religion being the opium of the masses an all that- just a control

[mistermatty]

have you ever seen a poor church in the PH ???

[KeithD]

Isn't it strange...that the "Goal Amount" to support the Forum is 30 GBP, and this month 55 GBP has been received :doh
The Church's loss is the Forum's gain :xxgrinning--00xx3:

All Hail the Forum :icon_sorry::icon_sorry::icon_sorry::icon_sorry:

[Arthur Little]

Im a believer.:D

Really good to know that, Mark ... ME too!! And (as I mentioned earlier) proud of it! :xxgrinning--00xx3: Thanks for your support!

[sparky]

have you ever seen a poor church in the PH ???

while all the congregation live in abject poverty

how can that be right then?

[mistermatty]

caught on quick there Sparky .....i visted LOTS of churchs all over Samar and they are very well kept and are clearly having a lot of money spent on there up keep ....and Samar is a region that is poorer than most provinces !

[raynaputi]

Oh jeeezzz...Religion topics now? hehehe...I am a Catholic myself...I do believe in God and things about Him...but I can't say I'm religious...I don't go to church every Sunday but I don't hate the church (okay I'm too lazy to get out of the house during weekends honestly :doh)...:D:Rasp:

[somebody]

:gp: ... EXACTLY what I'd been thinking, too!! :rolleyes: I WONDER what their reaction would be??

But surely Sparky like I did should politely make his views known now rather than later?

Should he live a lie? I hope the belivers on here are not encouraging Sparky to break one of the comandments:omg:

Sadly some "belivers" in phill seem to have highly bigoted views, so im happy to express my views to them. Those who live and let live yet are strong belivers im happy to celebrate their faith and support them:)

I had as a wedding gift from a lovely uncle and aunt a book on how a good god fearing husband should live sadly i can post any of the text on here as Sir Admin of lord of all the valleys would have to delete the post and possibly may ban me for views which are on a par or me with the Nazis:NoNo:

Now I know them not to be evil, but many those in postions of power in religous do seem to be the ones I have an issue wth.

I also find it crazy that some of the maids when given a bonsus by us would think they should give to the Church when really they needed more for basics for their own familes:rolleyes:

But what do I know let your family live with a damaged roof and give the money to a particular brand of church which seemed from when I enquired to do little in the local area to help those in abad way:rolleyes:

[sparky]

you dont need religion to lead a good life

as a decent human being why do you think we need a made up celestial being to show us the way

if you think on it logically its rediculous

how can the C of E be a legitimate "religion" when it was started by a bloke who wanted to get his end away FFS

the muslim faith wants to kill all non believers

how can these be considered "good"

i would rather be a good person than a good churchgoer ( not saying that i am like )

[Arthur Little]

perpetuated by facists and pedos


preists and nuns- bunch of sadistic perverts i may add

"Sweeping Statements" ... which - whilst it cannot be denied that [SOME] 'Religious Orders' HAVE had (and presumably always WILL have) their "share" of shady and/or unsavoury characters - should NOT - by ANY stretch of the imagination be applied to the CHRISTIAN Church in general! Indeed, as far as I'M aware, the closest the Church of Scotland (of which I've been a communicant member since the age of 17) has come to being in any way "associated" with unnatural and/or deviant sexual acts :Sex: was at last year's General Assembly - when there was fierce opposition among clergy to the induction and ordination of a gay minister to a prominent charge in Aberdeen. And I'VE been a ruling Elder for 35 years!

So it's most unfair to generalise - by basing the morality of the Christian Church (in its WIDEST sense) on malicious rumours arising from the [comparatively] few isolated reports of gross indecency within its ranks.

[Arthur Little]

you dont need religion to lead a good life

as a decent human being why do you think we need a made up celestial being to show us the way

i would rather be a good person than a good churchgoer ( not saying that i am like )

:iagree: ... you DON'T need religion to lead a good life :NoNo:. A great many friends of mine are non-churchgoers ... but I wouldn't go as far as to call them either atheists or agnostics, because they are decent, upright citizens living as good - if not better - lives than lots of [hyocritical] people I know who DO attend Sunday forenoon worship.

But I think it's definitely a comforting "bonus" to have faith in (how shall I put it?) ... :rolleyes: ...:Erm: ... yes ... a sort of spiritual being ... a higher power, if you like - that you can turn to in times of grief or hardship. I hope that makes some kind of sense!

[triple5]

my mom is a catholic- i was brought up catholic and Myrna is catholic. when i say brought up i mean catholic schools taught by preists and nuns- bunch of sadistic perverts i may add

Starting to wonder if you were once a choirboy sparky :Erm:

I've dabbled in a few religions myself. Was a converted christian at 11 and later lost interest, had friends who were muslims and hindus and learned about their faiths, then later I became a Buddhist. now I'm here in a predominantly Catholic country. What I've come to realize is that we don't really know if there's a God :Erm::Erm: No sacred book or billions of believers can prove it.

That's something I usually keep to myself btw :icon_lol: Religion and politics are usually topics I don't discuss when in foreign countries.

I actually went to church last week for the first time in ages. Don't think I'll be getting invited again after setting a new world record for yawns in an hour. It reminded me of when I was kid, there just seems to be a way priests preach that could send me to sleep.

[Arthur Little]

have you ever seen a poor church in the PH ???


caught on quick there Sparky .....i visted LOTS of churchs all over Samar and they are very well kept and are clearly having a lot of money spent on there up keep ....and Samar is a region that is poorer than most provinces !

Matty, I'm not talking about the Philippines ... where, :iagree: the Church is undoubtedly all-powerful, and has "reigned supreme" ever since the islands were colonised by the Spanish - and the inhabitants converted to Catholicism centuries ago. No, :NoNo: I'm referring to the Presbyterian Church in Scotland - the denomination to which I belong. Now IT REALLY IS struggling to survive financially, due, mainly, to dwindling attendances ... which, in turn, are having a "knock-on" effect - reflected in congregations being forced to merge with others, closure of premises - that are left to fall into a state of disrepair then decay, crumble and eventually disintegrate, etc., because of a lack of funding. I suspect the Anglican and Scottish Episcopal Churches are facing a somewhat similar fate :rolleyes: - though perhaps to a lesser extent.

[sars_notd_virus]

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how £20 seems such a large amount when you donate it to the Church ... but such a small amount when you go shopping?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how an hour seems so long in passing when you're in church ... and so short a time when you are watching an exciting film?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how everyone wants front-row seats at a concert ... but do whatever possible to sit in the back row in church?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how difficult and boring it is to read one chapter of the Bible ... yet so easy to read 100 pages of a novel?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how we tend to believe everything magazines and newspapers tell us ... yet question the words contained in the Bible?

what a complex thread sir art:D
I remember my grandad saying when i was young 'If you cant do good in a day....don't do bad'

[KeithD]

the muslim faith wants to kill all non believers

how can these be considered "good"

As with most people who can't be bothered educating themselves properly, those so called 'Muslims' who want others dead are mostly those that abuse their own religion, so they are NOT true followers of the Muslim faith, while those who follow it's true path would not harm another human.

The same goes for the religious idiots in the US who fight to stop abortion in the name of God to save lives but murdered the doctor :doh :crazy:

[laurel]

Hi guys, just putting this out there for your CONSIDERATION!!

For those who believe in a God and revere the scriptures as being divinely inspired , why doesnt 'christianity' follow what the Bible teaches?

noted philosopher Soren Kierkegaard once said: "The Christianity of the New Testament simply does not exist. Millions of people through the centuries have little by little cheated God out of Christianity and have succeeded in making Christianity exactly the opposite of what it is in the New Testament."

Where's Christmas, Easter, etc commanded in the Bible, where is Sunday mentioned as the Sabbath??

Maybe we dont follow what the Bible teaches at all .

Quote fromCardinal James Gibbons , leading Catholic Cardinal, in 1876
: "But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify. The Catholic Church correctly teaches that our Lord and His Apostles inculcated certain important duties of religion which are not recorded by the inspired writers.

There are loads of examples of leading 'church men who agree that Sunday was never authorised by the Bible.
As i say guys for consideration and please no unpleasant mud slinging............we'reall adults here:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[triple5]

Hi guys, just putting this out there for your CONSIDERATION!!

For those who believe in a God and revere the scriptures as being divinely inspired , why doesnt 'christianity' follow what the Bible teaches?

noted philosopher Soren Kierkegaard once said: "The Christianity of the New Testament simply does not exist. Millions of people through the centuries have little by little cheated God out of Christianity and have succeeded in making Christianity exactly the opposite of what it is in the New Testament."

Where's Christmas, Easter, etc commanded in the Bible, where is Sunday mentioned as the Sabbath??

Maybe we dont follow what the Bible teaches at all .

Quote fromCardinal James Gibbons , leading Catholic Cardinal, in 1876
: "But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify. The Catholic Church correctly teaches that our Lord and His Apostles inculcated certain important duties of religion which are not recorded by the inspired writers.

There are loads of examples of leading 'church men who agree that Sunday was never authorised by the Bible.
As i say guys for consideration and please no unpleasant mud slinging............we'reall adults here:xxgrinning--00xx3:

I guess that's true of most religions, I know it is with Buddhism. What they've done to it in Thailand is so far off the original teachings. I don't think Buddha ever taught that tying string round a washing machine and getting a monk to chant at it would bring it good luck :doh

[Arthur Little]

Please note, everyone ... that when I raised this thread yesterday afternoon, it had most certainly NOT been my aim to resurrect an old, highly-conntentious issue - nor "spark(y)-off" [puns INtended] yet another fiery religious debate. :NoNo: Believe me, I'M no saint! However, my present wife, Myrna is a staunch believer, who - like most Filipinos - :pray:s regularly, while (to my shame) I am the first to admit I DON'T! However, in spite of her [hitherto] devout Catholicism - and my Protestant upbringing - she draws no distinctions between the two universally-accepted doctrines and, each Sunday, is more than happy attending the church where I have been a communicant member since 1967; indeed, for HER, it is one of the week's highlights! Moreover, she maintains my [apparent] "Christian" lifestyle was one of the principal factors that had attracted her to me at the outset.

By the same token, my first wife, Iris also happened to be a strong adherent to the principles of Christianity. So much so that, when she was sadly :bigcry: dying from a rare form of lymphatic cancer in 1991, she instructed me :23_116_6[1]: to ensure her death notice was worded "... and with great faith ..." - as opposed to "... after a long illnesss, bravely borne ..."! :nono-1-1: But far be it from ME to try and convert ANYONE! I'M just plain, old Arthur :olddude: ... who's every bit as flawed a human being as the next person. And finally ... I am more than willing to concede that church attendance coupled with a belief in an 'Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth' maketh not the man (or woman) - rather, it is a comforting solace in a troubled and uncertain world. Amen :ARsurrender: ... here endeth the sermon!

[laurel]

:xxgrinning--00xx3:Hey Arth , I thought the first post here was really thought provoking...........

[aposhark]

********* RELIGION WARNING *********

Isn't it strange that people go to church ?
Isn't it strange that people keep mentioning church, or any other religion for that matter ?
As if these things are important for the majority of people in the UK.

We have had so many religious threads, and yet another.

This topic serves no purpose except to aggravate people.

I am surprised that you have started another, Arthur.
You seem to be a peaceful man, yet have forgotten that religious views in this forum only causes animosity.

Please keep religion where it belongs, in the confines of your private life :Erm:

[triple5]

********* RELIGION WARNING *********

Isn't it strange that people go to church ?
Isn't it strange that people keep mentioning church, or any other religion for that matter ?
As if these things are important for the majority of people in the UK.

We have had so many religious threads, and yet another.

This topic serves no purpose except to aggravate people.

I am surprised that you have started another, Arthur.
You seem to be a peaceful man, yet have forgotten that religious views in this forum only causes animosity.

Please keep religion where it belongs, in the confines of your private life :Erm:

I see no reason why it can't be discussed rationally :Erm: If anybody gets aggravated by anothers views they can always leave the thread :Wave: The only animosity I've ever seen comes from the devil worshippers on here (sorry, I mean Atheists :D).

The world would be a more peaceful place if we all showed a bit of tolerence and understanding to other people's beliefs.

[KeithD]

The Devil was something made up by the Catholic church tp scare people, it doesn't work these days in the West :xxgrinning--00xx3: .... however sheep worshipping :icon_sorry::icon_sorry::icon_sorry::Sex:

[aposhark]

I see no reason why it can't be discussed rationally :Erm: If anybody gets aggravated by anothers views they can always leave the thread :Wave: The only animosity I've ever seen comes from the devil worshippers on here (sorry, I mean Atheists :D).

The world would be a more peaceful place if we all showed a bit of tolerence and understanding to other people's beliefs.

Did any of the mass murderers who used religious differences to wipe out millions offer the same argument as they sharpened their swords or dropped their cannisters of gas ?

Also, do you think this forum would be "a more peaceful place" if we atheists constantly started threads about our beliefs?

[bornatbirth]

Also, do you think this forum would be "a more peaceful place" if we atheists constantly started threads about our beliefs?

do you have any?, wont it be a short thread :icon_lol:

whats wrong in going to church?, trouble is theres a lot of competition on a sunday and it seems the church loses out :Erm:

[triple5]

Also, do you think this forum would be "a more peaceful place" if we atheists constantly started threads about our beliefs?

Nope, coz you seem like an angry lot to me :rolleyes: I've often found that with Atheists, there seems to be a real seething for religions :Erm: Sure there's been way too much bloodshed in the name of religion, brainwashing, greed, sex abuse, the list goes on, but people will believe what they want to believe, you're not going to change the mindest of somebody who's been spoon fed it from birth.

None of my business, but I'm guessing your wife's a catholic, just wondering how she takes it the way you feel about her faith?

[aposhark]

do you have any?, wont it be a short thread :icon_lol:

whats wrong in going to church?, trouble is theres a lot of competition on a sunday and it seems the church loses out :Erm:

As has been mentioned in many other threads before, any religious person has the right to show any atheist ANY proof of a "god", a "jesus", "mohammed" or any other of the wacky fairy tales.
There is nothing wrong with people going to church, if that is what they want to do.
I can't see any benefit in mentioning it here.
As long as there are threads containing religious mumbo-jumbo, others have the right to oppose this constant claptrap.

Religion is like a disease to me.
Fortunately, most people in the UK feel the same.

[aposhark]

Nope, coz you seem like an angry lot to me :rolleyes: I've often found that with Atheists, there seems to be a real seething for religions :Erm: Sure there's been way too much bloodshed in the name of religion, brainwashing, greed, sex abuse, the list goes on, but people will believe what they want to believe, you're not going to change the mindest of somebody who's been spoon fed it from birth.

None of my business, but I'm guessing your wife's a catholic, just wondering how she takes it the way you feel about her faith?

I as an athiest will never give the floor to people who spout off about ideas without any proof.
It is as ludicrous as people who used to believe the earth was flat, or that the sun was a "god".

Yes, my wife is catholic, we never discuss religion.
It is agreeable to both of us in equal measure.

[bornatbirth]

you need proof that god exists, why :Erm:

a simple thread on why the church is losing its flock can be debated cant it? :)

[aposhark]

you need proof that god exists, why :Erm:

a simple thread on why the church is losing its flock can be debated cant it? :)

If I posted on this forum that all cars were really cross-dressing dogs in a bullish mood, wouldn't you want to know where that little fact came from?
It is a nonsense idea and should be rightly questioned.

Likewise, people who mention religious ideas should be subject to a few searching questions.
Such as:
A church is a building that celebrates the idea of a "god".
Can any religious person show the others any proof of anything that backs up anything concerning their belief?

It is a legitimate question as far as I am concerned.

As an atheist, I don't have to prove anything about a "god".
If someone implies there is a god, prove it.

[nigel]

I believe in L.O.A. all the way and I listen to solfeggio frequencies and hypnotherapy all the time! :)

[bornatbirth]

If I posted on this forum that all cars were really cross-dressing dogs in a bullish mood, wouldn't you want to know where that little fact came from?


cant say i would be that bothered, i usually dont bother posting if i think its nonsense and besides its a free world :)


I believe in L.O.A. all the way and I listen to solfeggio frequencies and hypnotherapy all the time! :)

i clicked on your location and expected to find a padded cell :Cuckoo: :D

[gWaPito]

********* RELIGION WARNING *********

Isn't it strange that people go to church ?
Isn't it strange that people keep mentioning church, or any other religion for that matter ?
As if these things are important for the majority of people in the UK.

We have had so many religious threads, and yet another.

This topic serves no purpose except to aggravate people.

I am surprised that you have started another, Arthur.
You seem to be a peaceful man, yet have forgotten that religious views in this forum only causes animosity.

Please keep religion where it belongs, in the confines of your private life :Erm:

I remember reading what Keith said about having 2,500 guests a day log into this site.
Can you imagine if they all were to reply?
If you don't like what you read, move on to another thread:cwm23:

I didn't come into religion until later in life but, I always some how believed there is a God.
I needed some big time hardship in my life to wake me up and the hardship served it's purpose:D

[gWaPito]

I as an athiest will never give the floor to people who spout off about ideas without any proof.
It is as ludicrous as people who used to believe the earth was flat, or that the sun was a "god".

Yes, my wife is catholic, we never discuss religion.
It is agreeable to both of us in equal measure.

so religion is taboo in your household huh. I bet that makes holy week etc etc etc etc exciting for your wife.
How about Christmas, how does that go down when you are working? I guess you must be working because you don't believe and Christmas to you is just another day.
My wife and I have Mother Mary all over house like many Filipina's, I wonder if you allow your wife to do the same? or is that something else you and your wife have agreed upon not talking about?

[aposhark]

I remember reading what Keith said about having 2,500 guests a day log into this site.
Can you imagine if they all were to reply?
If you don't like what you read, move on to another thread:cwm23:

I didn't come into religion until later in life but, I always some how believed there is a God.
I needed some big time hardship in my life to wake me up and the hardship served it's purpose:D

You have missed the point in my posts entirely.
I suggest you re-read what I typed.
There are MANY people in the UK who will not let people who believe in fairy tales spout off.
Do you have proof?
I am waiting.....................

[gWaPito]

You have missed the point in my posts entirely.
I suggest you re-read what I typed.
There are MANY people in the UK who will not let people who believe in fairy tales spout off.
Do you have proof?
I am waiting.....................

You are not talking to your wife now..

[aposhark]

so religion is taboo in your household huh. I bet that makes holy week etc etc etc etc exciting for your wife.
How about Christmas, how does that go down when you are working? I guess you must be working because you don't believe and Christmas to you is just another day.
My wife and I have Mother Mary all over house like many Filipina's, I wonder if you allow your wife to do the same? or is that something else you and your wife have agreed upon not talking about?

Christmas is just a time for me to see family, that is all.
We don't have any religious artifacts or mumbo jumbo in that time either.
We are a very happily married couple :heartshape1: and we get by without religion.
We believe in the here and now, not the false promises that religion tries to offer.
We have no shame and we don't need to confess any sins. :icon_lol: Can you?

[aposhark]

You are not talking to your wife now..

To repeat.....
You have missed the point in my posts entirely.
I suggest you re-read what I typed.
There are MANY people in the UK who will not let people who believe in fairy tales spout off.
Do you have proof?
I am waiting.....................

[Arthur Little]

Well ... :sorry-2: if I upset anyone with what was fully intended as an :innocent1: thread based on sharing "food for thought" contained in a small article published in the latest edition of another Church's Magazine I just happened to pick up in the vestibule of my own yesterday. No offence was meant on MY part, BUT ...if I'd had even the slightest inkling it was going to "cause World War III," :rolleyes: then I definitely wouldn't have bothered! :NoNo:

I know no more about the existence of God - or any other 'Supreme Being' for that matter - than anyone else; however, I make no apology for my faith. End of story! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[bornatbirth]

There are MANY people in the UK who will not let people spout off.


:Erm: :icon_lol:

have you ever thought of not posting in theses threads :xxgrinning--00xx3: it will save ill feeling towards one another :D :D

arthur, what have you done!, i always thought you was trouble :icon_lol:

[KeithD]

.....you're not going to change the mindest of somebody who's been spoon fed it from birth.

:Erm: Mine changed!

[gWaPito]

Christmas is just a time for me to see family, that is all.
We don't have any religious artifacts or mumbo jumbo in that time either.
We are a very happily married couple :heartshape1: and we get by without religion.
We believe in the here and now, not the false promises that religion tries to offer.
We have no shame and we don't need to confess any sins. :icon_lol: Can you?

I some how can't see your Filipina wife saying that 'Christmas is just a time for me to see family, that is all.
We don't have any religious artifacts or mumbo jumbo in that time either.'

Come on aposhark, I think just a bit of you can not let go because you say Christmas time is for family.

I bet you vote liberal as well:D

[KeithD]

Only peaceful Arthur could start a humourous thread that ends in genocide :icon_lol:

[aposhark]

:Erm: :icon_lol:

have you ever thought of not posting in theses threads :xxgrinning--00xx3: it will save ill feeling towards one another :D :D

No, I have never thought of not posting in reply to threads of this type.
IMO, the people who cause ill feeling are the ones who try to use this forum to perpetuate fairy tales.
I thought this forum was FilipinoUK, where we can help each other with important things besides religion.

[aposhark]

I some how can't see your Filipina wife saying that 'Christmas is just a time for me to see family, that is all.
We don't have any religious artifacts or mumbo jumbo in that time either.'

Come on aposhark, I think just a bit of you can not let go because you say Christmas time is for family.

I bet you vote liberal as well:D

I don't want to get personal with you, or want to know your politics.
I just have firm ideas about religion that are not connected to the personal.

[bornatbirth]

do you really think arthur was trying to cause ill feeling by starting this thread?

unless hes out to cause mischief :xxaction-smiley-047

[gWaPito]

I don't want to get personal with you, or want to know your politics.
I just have firm ideas about religion that are not connected to the personal.

OK....Kisses and hugs....We agree to disagree:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[gWaPito]

I don't want to get personal with you, or want to know your politics.
I just have firm ideas about religion that are not connected to the personal.

OK....Kisses and hugs....We agree to disagree:xxgrinning--00xx3:

oh..I'm a conservative.

[aposhark]

do you really think arthur was trying to cause ill feeling by starting this thread?

unless hes out to cause mischief :xxaction-smiley-047

Please read post #64

[gWaPito]

No, I have never thought of not posting in reply to threads of this type.
IMO, the people who cause ill feeling are the ones who try to use this forum to perpetuate fairy tales.
I thought this forum was FilipinoUK, where we can help each other with important things besides religion.

Surely aposhark 'fairy tales'? You are a man of many words, so why use 'fairy tales'?
Why not say, untruths in your humble opinion, or something to that effect.
Calling the bible 'fairy tales' will surely get some people's backs up.
Like bornabirth said, you should not of replyed to the thread.;)

[Sim11UK]

I haven't been offended by your thread Arthur, though wasn't particularly interested in it? So don't feel bad about it.
We have to remember, that probably 50%?? of the forum is religious.

When I spent time in the Philippines, we used to go to church most sundays, stand outside because it was packed. I wasn't interested in the service, just used to enjoy watching the food & flower vendors, setting up, for when the congregation departed. I went because of my wifes beliefs & her sister, who was staying with us.

However, I always think of churches, as a place of great beauty & they instill a sense of calm in me. For me, this has nothing to do with any proof or disproof of God.

Likewise, we went & lit candles, for our departed loved ones on All Souls, or All Saints day can't remember which day oops!...& that was a very moving experience...will never forget that.

When my neighbour died suddenly, back in january aged 46, well over 200 people attended his funeral. He was always very popular. He had a Humanist service & lovely it was too, but it was almost religious, in feeling & the sense of everyone coming together.

This is why I know I can draw some comfort, from religion, without having to have any set beliefs, or proof of anything.

[aposhark]

Surely aposhark 'fairy tales'? You are a man of many words, so why use 'fairy tales'?
Why not say, untruths in your humble opinion, or something to that effect.
Calling the bible 'fairy tales' will surely get some people's backs up.
Like bornabirth said, you should not of replyed to the thread.;)

You call them untruths, I prefer to call them fairy tales; it is semantics.
If you can provide any proof, I and a million others would be keen to be enlightened.
I suspect it will be a very long wait however.
Regarding me not replying, I refer to bornatbirth's comment:
"its a free world".

[sparky]

As with most people who can't be bothered educating themselves properly, those so called 'Muslims' who want others dead are mostly those that abuse their own religion, so they are NOT true followers of the Muslim faith, while those who follow it's true path would not harm another human.

The same goes for the religious idiots in the US who fight to stop abortion in the name of God to save lives but murdered the doctor :doh :crazy:

tell that to the uneducated victims of 7/7 or 9/11

all of the "major 3" religions incites hatred no matter how well meaning

for myself i think i am a buddhist athiest:xxgrinning--00xx3:

and i will leave this topic with a quote from the late great Douglas Adams

""I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don't. Q.E.D."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing"

[triple5]

:Erm: Mine changed!

:doh Apo's brainwashed you :omg:

[walesrob]

This thread proves that religion divides people greatly. It's a shame we can't have a sensible debate. Ah well, football's on soon...

[KeithD]

tell that to the uneducated victims of 7/7 or 9/11
all of the "major 3" religions incites hatred no matter how well meaning


I and my muslim friends don't remember being taught any time in our lives to go out and kill others, nutters, murders, governments, and people who use religion as an excuse for murder do that. I don't believe in God, but then I can't prove their isn't one either, although in all probabilty it's 99.99999....% their isn't one, but to say all 3 main religions incite hatred shows you are the one who is uneducated and blind to all physical probably that a God or some divine beings may exist in a physical presence we have not yet found nor understand. 100 Years ago atoms did not exist, now we have neutrino's that pass through the Earth without touching anything.

I take it you've read the original manuscripts of these 3 religions, or from what you say, you've fallen for the gullible waffle that books & the media have put out over the years, which make you just as bad for brainwashing as the religious folk.

:heartshape1::heartshape1::heartshape1:

[KeithD]

:doh Apo's brainwashed you :omg:

Nooooo ... it was Zeus :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Doc Alan]

Just believe in the forum and put your money in the collection box (Paypal) :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[sparky]

I and my muslim friends don't remember being taught any time in our lives to go out and kill others, nutters, murders, governments, and people who use religion as an excuse for murder do that. I don't believe in God, but then I can't prove their isn't one either, although in all probabilty it's 99.99999....% their isn't one, but to say all 3 main religions incite hatred shows you are the one who is uneducated and blind to all physical probably that a God or some divine beings may exist in a physical presence we have not yet found nor understand. 100 Years ago atoms did not exist, now we have neutrino's that pass through the Earth without touching anything.

I take it you've read the original manuscripts of these 3 religions, or from what you say, you've fallen for the gullible waffle that books & the media have put out over the years, which make you just as bad for brainwashing as the religious folk.

:heartshape1::heartshape1::heartshape1:


7/7 and 9/11 re the muslims

the crusades in the name of christianity

the jews just yesterday on the ship

nuff said really

i dont feel the love there
for peaceful religions theres an awful lot of killing!!!

[Arthur Little]

for peaceful religions theres an awful lot of killing!!!

Not in the Presbyterian Church of Scotland there ain't :NoNo: ... not YET, anyway!

[sparky]

Not in the Presbyterian Church of Scotland there ain't :NoNo: ... not YET, anyway!

if you dont do what your mrs says there may well be one at least :icon_lol::icon_lol:

[KeithD]

7/7 and 9/11 re the muslims

the crusades in the name of christianity

the jews just yesterday on the ship

nuff said really!!!

Not really, they are not doing these things as per the preachings of the original manuscripts which are preach peace. It is man that uses religion as an excuse for murder, the original religious manuscripts do not preach that people murder.

[Arthur Little]

arthur was trying to cause ill feeling by starting this thread?

:reaction: ... an unequivocal and emphatic :nono-1-1: "NO!" Don't you realise I'd have used the ENLARGEMENT fonts for the "word" - IF ONLY I knew how to ... ?

[bornatbirth]

:reaction: ... an unequivocal and emphatic :nono-1-1: "NO!" Don't you realise I'd have used the ENLARGEMENT fonts for the "word" - IF ONLY I knew how to ... ?

you mean like this :Erm: just click the sizes next to the fonts :)

[triple5]

you've fallen for the gullible waffle that books & the media have put out over the years

There's no doubt about it that the media portray Islam in the most negative way, this goes as far as movies as well. Whose ever seen an Arab portrayed in a good light in a film :Erm:

8QKxHINgloA

Maybe because the Jews run Hollywood :rolleyes:

[triple5]

you've fallen for the gullible waffle that books & the media have put out over the years

There's no doubt about it that the media portray Islam in the most negative way, this goes as far as movies as well. Whose ever seen an Arab portrayed in a good light in a film :Erm:

8QKxHINgloA

Maybe because the Jews run Hollywood :rolleyes:

[Arthur Little]

There's no doubt about it that the media portray Islam in the most negative way, this goes as far as movies as well. Whose ever seen an Arab portrayed in a good light in a film :Erm:

8QKxHINgloA

Maybe because the Jews run Hollywood :rolleyes:

:cwm24: Keeping to the 'biblical' theme ... Christ only knows how photos of the scale portrayed are uploaded onto a computer! :rolleyes:

[Arthur Little]

do you really think arthur was trying to cause ill feeling by starting this thread?

unless hes out to cause mischief :xxaction-smiley-047


Please read post #64

:Erm: ... your #point BEING ...? I mean, in relation to bornatbirth's post referring to ME? :rolleyes:

Whatever, Mike, I would like to reiterate what I said yesterday: My thread was NOT - repeat NOT- designed in ANY way to cause offence to ANYONE - believers and/or non-believers alike!! And I'm both sad :bigcry: and disappointed to think that anyone here could've even [imagined] otherwise, and taken it out of its proper context ... which was merely "food for thought", that's all.

[aposhark]

:doh Apo's brainwashed you :omg:

Well that would be a first - A Kopite brainwashed by a Toffee.
It's not for the want of trying :icon_lol:

[aposhark]

Not really, they are not doing these things as per the preachings of the original manuscripts which are preach peace. It is man that uses religion as an excuse for murder, the original religious manuscripts do not preach that people murder.

The Bible and the Koran both recommend horrible things........ :rolleyes:

[KeithD]

The Bible and the Koran both recommend horrible things for their followers :rolleyes:

Not in the original scriptures their isn't. :doh

[aposhark]

:Erm: ... your #point BEING ...? I mean, in relation to bornatbirth's post referring to ME? :rolleyes:

Whatever, Mike, I would like to reiterate what I said yesterday: My thread was NOT - repeat NOT- designed in ANY way to cause offence to ANYONE - believers and/or non-believers alike!! And I'm both sad :bigcry: and disappointed to think that anyone here could've even [imagined] otherwise, and taken it out of its proper context ... which was merely "food for thought", that's all.

My point was that I do not like to get personal, name call or insult anyone here Arthur.
The post that I was asked to comment on would only have made the situation worse, and that was something I wasn't willing to do.

I just wish this fantastic forum could be free of religion and the resulting divisiveness that occurs.
I don't really want to keep submitting an atheist's opinion, but that is me and is the result of my life's experiences.

I would much prefer to comment on how beautiful our wives are to us, and why is the pound dropping all the time causing the PHP rate to continue to drop; things of importance to all of us :rolleyes:

[aposhark]

Not in the original scriptures their isn't. :doh

I haven't read any of these bible/koran originals.
I did see a documentary about the dead sea scrolls and it informed the viewers that these artifacts were locked away quickly by the Jews because they showed the Jews to be warmongers, contrary to the image they wanted to portray in these times :yikes::yikes::yikes:

[raynaputi]

well this forum will always contain something related to religion no matter what we do..most females here are Catholic or have religion..most would say "just keep on praying to God" or "we'll include u to our prayers" and the likes whenever there's someone experiencing a bad situation..all we have to do is to respect everyone else's beliefs, opinions, etc. to avoid such debates esp. about religion.. :D

[bornatbirth]

I don't really want to keep submitting an atheist's opinion

i get the feeling you enjoy doing so :Erm:

[gWaPito]

I haven't been offended by your thread Arthur, though wasn't particularly interested in it? So don't feel bad about it.
We have to remember, that probably 50%?? of the forum is religious.

When I spent time in the Philippines, we used to go to church most sundays, stand outside because it was packed. I wasn't interested in the service, just used to enjoy watching the food & flower vendors, setting up, for when the congregation departed. I went because of my wifes beliefs & her sister, who was staying with us.

However, I always think of churches, as a place of great beauty & they instill a sense of calm in me. For me, this has nothing to do with any proof or disproof of God.

Likewise, we went & lit candles, for our departed loved ones on All Souls, or All Saints day can't remember which day oops!...& that was a very moving experience...will never forget that.

When my neighbour died suddenly, back in january aged 46, well over 200 people attended his funeral. He was always very popular. He had a Humanist service & lovely it was too, but it was almost religious, in feeling & the sense of everyone coming together.

This is why I know I can draw some comfort, from religion, without having to have any set beliefs, or proof of anything.

Well put Mr Bristol, that is my understanding as well;)

[sparky]

Not really, they are not doing these things as per the preachings of the original manuscripts which are preach peace. It is man that uses religion as an excuse for murder, the original religious manuscripts do not preach that people murder.

man invented religion so it can be used to whatever purpose they need it to- therin lies the problem

[aposhark]

well this forum will always contain something related to religion no matter what we do..most females here are Catholic or have religion..most would say "just keep on praying to God" or "we'll include u to our prayers" and the likes whenever there's someone experiencing a bad situation..all we have to do is to respect everyone else's beliefs, opinions, etc. to avoid such debates esp. about religion.. :D

I think Filipinas should know that the country (UK) they could be living in one day does not have the same religious emphasis that the Philippines has.
Some Filipinas may have religious boyfriends/husbands in the UK but chances are most won't.
I agree with you when you say we should avoid religion here; this was and always is, my point also.

[aposhark]

i get the feeling you enjoy doing so :Erm:

If religion wasn't brought up, I could quite happily concentrate on more important things.
I hope you can hear this penny dropping soon :rolleyes:

[Arthur Little]

.
I agree with you when you say we should avoid religion here; this was and always is, my point also.


:Erm: ... I think if you re-read her post, you'll find that Rayna was saying we should avoid SUCH DEBATES about religion.

[bornatbirth]

:icon_lol: so we can debate everything except religion next we should stop free speech :Erm:

[gWaPito]

well this forum will always contain something related to religion no matter what we do..most females here are Catholic or have religion..most would say "just keep on praying to God" or "we'll include u to our prayers" and the likes whenever there's someone experiencing a bad situation..all we have to do is to respect everyone else's beliefs, opinions, etc. to avoid such debates esp. about religion.. :D

Unless you live in apo's house..you can have your own opinion dear wife, as long as I agree with it.:crazy:

[raynaputi]

:Erm: ... I think if you re-read her post, you'll find that Rayna was saying we should avoid SUCH DEBATES about religion.

haha..i was just about to say that Arthur! Man ur fast! :D :Rasp:

[bornatbirth]

If religion wasn't brought up, I could quite happily concentrate on more important things.
I hope you can hear this penny dropping soon :rolleyes:

at last we agree on something, do you reply to every thread posted on this forum, just dont reply :xxgrinning--00xx3: :Erm:

btw you remind me of drunk brother

[aposhark]

:Erm: ... I think if you re-read her post, you'll find that Rayna was saying we should avoid SUCH DEBATES about religion.

If people did not bring up religion on this forum Arthur, there would be less debates.
It is quite simple.

[gWaPito]

I think Filipinas should know that the country (UK) they could be living in one day does not have the same religious emphasis that the Philippines has.
Some Filipinas may have religious boyfriends/husbands in the UK but chances are most won't.
I agree with you when you say we should avoid religion here; this was and always is, my point also.

You say most husbands from the UK are not into religion who are married to filipina's, ummm
Where is your proof?......I'm waiting................

One more thing. A lot of big words are being used! I got to keep getting out my wife's English dictionary so goodness know what the 2,500 guests make of it.

[raynaputi]

:icon_lol: so we can debate everything except religion next we should stop free speech :Erm:

haha..hey bab..i didnt mean it that way..no one will ever win in debates about religion so why waste ur time eh? Religion really has great conflicts to each of us..and unless one accepts another's beliefs about this and change his/her views to favor the other, debates will never stop..so just avoid the debates to lessen the conflicts ;)

[aposhark]

:icon_lol: so we can debate everything except religion next we should stop free speech :Erm:

We can debate religion, but people should not get upset if the comments that are posted by atheists do not gel with their own.

[sparky]

:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:
We can debate religion, but people should not get upset if the comments that are posted by atheists do not gel with their own.:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

at last we agree on something, do you reply to every thread posted on this forum, just dont reply :xxgrinning--00xx3: :Erm:

btw you remind me of drunk brother

I reply to religious comments as a forum should have balance.
I see you dislike posting threads about religion also :icon_lol:

[aposhark]

Unless you live in apo's house..you can have your own opinion dear wife, as long as I agree with it.:crazy:

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

[gWaPito]

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

I thought so:NoNo:

[gWaPito]

We can debate religion, but people should not get upset if the comments that are posted by atheists do not gel with their own.

Hold on a minute..it was you who said it was 'fairy tales'. We were not talking about non-believers.
It was you who said 'prove it, Im waiting'.
Arthur and I were gelling quite nicely until you put your penith worth in. your's was not the subject.

[aposhark]

You say most husbands from the UK are not into religion who are married to filipina's, ummm
Where is your proof?......I'm waiting................

One more thing. A lot of big words are being used! I got to keep getting out my wife's English dictionary so goodness know what the 2,500 guests make of it.

As religion is on the wane in the UK, I think it is fair to point out that most Filipinas will have a completely different perspective on religion when they arrive here.
I can only presume that men who meet their future wives will not have the same brainwashing as the church has enjoyed in the Philippines.
AND don't get me started on Priests and condoms there :crazy:

[aposhark]

I thought so:NoNo:

I posted in a previous thread that my wife and I don't discuss religion.
She very seldom went to church in the Philippines and doesn't want to go in England either.
We are in agreement about this in every way. I have often offered to take her there and collect her when it is over, but she doesn't want to get involved in chismiss.
I posted laughs because you made me laugh :icon_lol:

[aposhark]

Hold on a minute..it was you who said it was 'fairy tales'. We were not talking about non-believers.
It was you who said 'prove it, Im waiting'.
Arthur and I were gelling quite nicely until you put your penith worth in. your's was not the subject.

I think you are losing the etiquette of posting and which post was typed by whom. Re-read post #104 by bornatbirth to see why I replied to his comment. Shheeeeesh :NoNo: Get a grip man, pull yourself to pieces :)

[bornatbirth]

We can debate religion, but people should not get upset if the comments that are posted by atheists do not gel with their own.

i dislike the fact your telling myself and others what they can discuss. :bigcry:

now im thinking you are my brother and on the wind up :76:

btw last sunday i went to church with my wife, after we had Kfc and watched sex and the city 2, then we went home and made love :heartshape1:

apo and sparky should try it, your missing out :D

[Arthur Little]

AND don't get me started on Priests and condoms there :crazy:

Never knew priests wore them! :xxparty-smiley-004: How about we call a truce ... or, better still, have a "ceasefire"? Oops ... there goes my latest :idea: ... I'd been about to suggest we [dare I mention the "word"?] "resurrect" the two previous threads on the theme of ... :Erm: ... 'farting'. Now there's something that EVERYONE does ... it's "inescapable" ... sorry, no ... the "air" escapes; :Erm: ... unavoidable! Of course, members might feel there's been enough "hot air" already!

[bornatbirth]

always the dipolmat :D

[aposhark]

i dislike the fact your telling myself and others what they can discuss. :bigcry:

now im thinking you are my brother and on the wind up :76:

btw last sunday i went to church with my wife, after we had Kfc and watched sex and the city 2, then we went home and made love :heartshape1:

apo and sparky should try it, your missing out :D

I did not tell you what you can discuss, how could anyone do that? I just said that if you continue with religious ideas, you surely would expect counter-arguments, wouldn't you?

I don't think sparky would be interested in a date with me, let alone getting it on together after a chick-flick and a burger.
(I would at least buy him some smoked salmon followed by a nice seductive glass of wine.)
We could then have a tete-a-tete about the merits of free thinking as we try to keep our beautiful jealous Filipinas at bay.

On second thoughts.............:icon_lol:

[Arthur Little]

apo and sparky should try it, your missing out :D

:Erm: ... you mean the "finger-lickin', Kentucky Fried Chicken"?

[sparky]

:Erm: ... you mean the "finger-lickin', Kentucky Fried Chicken"?

chancce would be a fine thing- roll on the end of the month :D

[sparky]

I did not tell you what you can discuss, how could anyone do that? I just said that if you continue with religious ideas, you surely would expect counter-arguments, wouldn't you?

I don't think sparky would be interested in a date with me, let alone getting it on together after a chick-flick and a burger.
(I would at least buy him some smoked salmon followed by a nice seductive glass of wine.)
We could then have a tete-a-tete about the merits of free thinking as we try to keep our beautiful jealous Filipinas at bay.

On second thoughts.............:icon_lol:

you sweet talking devil you:Sex::Sex:

[bornatbirth]

its KFC now, they dropped the kentucky fried chicken :)

[Arthur Little]

its KFC now, they dropped the kentucky fried chicken :)

:ARsurrender: ... just gave its full [original] title so's it would rhyme ... and tie-in with my :xxcheeky-smiley-013 remark!

[laurel]

its KFC now, they dropped the kentucky fried chicken :)

Yes !!!.....lets debate chicken.............or should that be manok:)

[KeithD]

:heartshape1::heartshape1::heartshape1::heartshape1::heartshape1:

More important things in the world like how not to ruin the moment of passion when you need to find the condom that vanished inside her :omg:

[sparky]

:heartshape1::heartshape1::heartshape1::heartshape1::heartshape1:

More important things in the world like how not to ruin the moment of passion when you need to find the condom that vanished inside her :omg:


ah but good catholic girls dont use condoms- its against their religion :D:D

[KeithD]

ah but good catholic girls dont use condoms- its against their religion :D:D

You sleep with some very strange woman if they need condoms!!! ;)

[sparky]

You sleep with some very strange woman if they need condoms!!! ;)

against my religion also- hate the things :Rasp:

[gWaPito]

I posted in a previous thread that my wife and I don't discuss religion.
She very seldom went to church in the Philippines and doesn't want to go in England either.
We are in agreement about this in every way. I have often offered to take her there and collect her when it is over, but she doesn't want to get involved in chismiss.
I posted laughs because you made me laugh :icon_lol:

That's OK apo, my wife laughs at me as well when I get upset.

I didn't mean any offence.
I just get excited sometimes:Cuckoo:

[gWaPito]

:heartshape1::heartshape1::heartshape1::heartshape1::heartshape1:

More important things in the world like how not to ruin the moment of passion when you need to find the condom that vanished inside her :omg:

or when the cat lets go of its wind...umm very off putting:NoNo:

[KeithD]

or when the cat lets go of its wind...umm very off putting:NoNo:
:omg: You're poking the wrong pussy :cwm24:

[Arthur Little]

:) Hmm ... all's quiet on the "western front" ... thank God! Let's hope and :pray: it stays that way! :rolleyes:

[aposhark]

:) Hmm ... all's quiet on the "western front" ... thank God! Let's hope and :pray: it stays that way! :rolleyes:

I usually have a lot of time for you Arthur, but your choice of words recently leaves a lot to be desired :Brick:
Please think a lot more before you type words.

[KeithD]

I usually have a lot of time for you Arthur, but your choice of words recently leaves a lot to be desired :Brick:
Please think a lot more before you type words.

:Erm: That's humour!!! :doh

[raynaputi]

hahaha..hey Arthur i laughed! :Rasp: :D

[gWaPito]

I usually have a lot of time for you Arthur, but your choice of words recently leaves a lot to be desired :Brick:
Please think a lot more before you type words.

Arthur, you have been told! Consider yourself scolded:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3890080.ece

[gWaPito]

You sleep with some very strange woman if they need condoms!!! ;)

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:
The penny just dropped, very good.

Joking aside, they say it's all the same in the dark:omg:

[Arthur Little]

I usually have a lot of time for you Arthur, but your choice of words recently leaves a lot to be desired :Brick:
Please think a lot more before you type words.

Sorry, mate ... the use of BOTH the word in deference to the 'Almighty' - and the subsequent icon - was intended as a light-hearted :joke:" [not to "invoke the wrath" of the non-believers! :NoNo:] and I'd hoped (for once) a post of mine would pass unnoticed. :rolleyes:

[gWaPito]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3890080.ece

Well that answers the question.
Apo, you were right all along, as I tend to think you are right about everything :icon_lol:

I think 'Oracle' would of been more suitable than apo:icon_lol:

[Arthur Little]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3890080.ece

Alas the link could not be uploaded on my PC ... maybe it's because [as I seem to remember reading elsewhere on the forum] the 'Times' is planning to charge for its internet access? In which case, Christians like ME cannot afford the cost of downloading articles from this distinguished newspaper! Ah well, all I can do is :pray: ... oops ... (sorry) curse :censored: my luck and donate the money instead, to the offering plate. "Isn't it strange ... but TRUE" ... how things have a habit of turning full circle? :rolleyes:

[Steve.r]

Well wrapped up Sir Arthur, end of discussion I feel. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

Alas the link could not be uploaded on my PC ... maybe it's because [as I seem to remember reading elsewhere on the forum] the 'Times' is planning to charge for its internet access? In which case, Christians like ME cannot afford the cost of downloading articles from this distinguished newspaper! Ah well, all I can do is :pray: ... oops ... (sorry) curse :censored: my luck and donate the money instead, to the offering plate. "Isn't it strange ... but TRUE" ... how things have a habit of turning full circle? :rolleyes:

The church needs every penny it can get these days Arthur, so get down there quick and keep the coffers a little noisey.
Be careful of turning full :erotic4: circle, you may get felt up :icon_lol:
But they will only hide the truth if this happens as they always do, so don't write to their leaders.:doh

[aposhark]

Well wrapped up Sir Arthur, end of discussion I feel. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Loads of church scandal out there Steve.r, did you see the one today about the Pope and the other German ?

[aposhark]

What next for scandal hit Catholic church?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8569206.stm

[Steve.r]

Unfortunately there will always be scandal in every corner of our lives, be it public or personal. I am not going to reveal my personal beliefs, but after reading the thread from the beginning the subject is always going to be a simmering pot of different views.
My life experience has taught me to live and let live. Accept that people are different. For us who have wives or girlfriends from a generally religious country must accept and respect 'their' beliefs to keep a harmonious and fulfilling relationship.
Fight or make peace with your own demons, who ever they may be, when the bell tolls for the last time. :)

[liane]

Unfortunately there will always be scandal in every corner of our lives, be it public or personal. I am not going to reveal my personal beliefs, but after reading the thread from the beginning the subject is always going to be a simmering pot of different views.
My life experience has taught me to live and let live. Accept that people are different. For us who have wives or girlfriends from a generally religious country must accept and respect 'their' beliefs to keep a harmonious and fulfilling relationship.
Fight or make peace with your own demons, who ever they may be, when the bell tolls for the last time. :)

Well said :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

Unfortunately there will always be scandal in every corner of our lives, be it public or personal. I am not going to reveal my personal beliefs, but after reading the thread from the beginning the subject is always going to be a simmering pot of different views.
My life experience has taught me to live and let live. Accept that people are different. For us who have wives or girlfriends from a generally religious country must accept and respect 'their' beliefs to keep a harmonious and fulfilling relationship.
Fight or make peace with your own demons, who ever they may be, when the bell tolls for the last time. :)

A continuing scandal is the abuse of innocent children.
They have no chance to live and let live.
They are abused by men who are supposed to protect them - by an organisation that is supposed to be religious.
As a person who holds the innocence of children as a tenet of life, I despair.
Where is the tenet of Christianity?
As long as children are abused by men of the cloth, these things must never be hidden from anyone and the perpetrators brought to book.
It is more than shameful, the church is an abomination.
and the children still cry as well as the adults still trying to erase their horrors. :bigcry::bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:
The bell tolls every day in these houses of abuse, not for the last time either.

[Steve.r]

Like i said, Apo, scandal inEVERY CORNER of life.

[bornatbirth]

apo, your beginning to sound like a stuck record and its funny that your telling arthur to think before he posts :Erm:

lighten up :)

[Arthur Little]

Like i said, Apo, scandal inEVERY CORNER of life.


apo, your beginning to sound like a stuck record and its funny that your telling arthur to think before he posts :Erm:

lighten up :)

:68711_thanx:, gentlemen for your solidarity; my thanks, too to gwapito (Mark) ... and to all the others who've been a tremendous source of support throughout the days since I posted this [perhaps] ill-advised, thought-provoking and UNintentionally controversial thread last Sunday!

[aposhark]

apo, your beginning to sound like a stuck record and its funny that your telling arthur to think before he posts :Erm:

lighten up :)

Your replies likewise :Erm:

[gWaPito]

A continuing scandal is the abuse of innocent children.
They have no chance to live and let live.
They are abused by men who are supposed to protect them - by an organisation that is supposed to be religious.
As a person who holds the innocence of children as a tenet of life, I despair.
Where is the tenet of Christianity?
As long as children are abused by men of the cloth, these things must never be hidden from anyone and the perpetrators brought to book.
It is more than shameful, the church is an abomination.
and the children still cry as well as the adults still trying to erase their horrors. :bigcry::bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:
The bell tolls every day in these houses of abuse, not for the last time either.

So this is your reasoning not for believing in a God.

Steve wrote a very good post:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[gWaPito]

Who was it who said early on in this thread that 'these non-believers love to get on there soap boxes'

[gWaPito]

:68711_thanx:, gentlemen for your solidarity; my thanks, too to gwapito (Mark) ... and to all the others who've been a tremendous source of support throughout the days since I posted this [perhaps] ill-advised, thought-provoking and UNintentionally controversial thread last Sunday!

Good thread Arthur, your integrity is intact while the opposing is losing it:NoNo:

[walesrob]

Good thread Arthur, your integrity is intact while the opposing is losing it:NoNo:

I think you'll find we've been down this road before and any wiff of religion is guarenteed to get a certain individual posting frantically - the post count of that individual says it all on this thread. That individual loses the argument every time by stating her/his opinion and then rubbishing other's contribution, so any attempt at sensible discussion just doesn't work. At the end of the day, if your pro-religion and you go to Church, thats cool, if your anti-religion, thats cool as well, its your choice.

[Doc Alan]

Arthur's integrity is never in doubt to me and the many forum members whom he has personally supported through their good and bad news. That's why he is a trusted member. To become one you have to earn respect over time. It's not easily achieved and rightly so. Anything I say related to health is evidence based, not opinion alone.
There is a huge amount of evidence supporting Arthur's trusted status on this forum. I trust him implicitly :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

The simple fact of the matter is that Christianity is in terminal decline, so all of you bible readers can hang on to a dying brainwashing ideology without any proof.
Once again, I ask any of you to even show a tiny morsel of any proof........
From the previous posts that we have had on this subject, no proof has ever been forthcoming.
What a shock :icon_lol:
The interesting thing for me is that the declining popularity of the church means that there are less and less children to have to swallow these ridiculous fairy tales.
So as the people on here continue to bring up religious references, you are a dying breed and clearly don't like to be reminded of this truth.
In the media and in the pubs all over the land, religion is ridiculed every day.
So once again why try to infect this forum with religion, when the purpose of this forum is not religion in any of it's guises.

Go to church, mosque or synagogue and enjoy what you do in your own private way, but don't bring these hair-brained notions to the forum.

If you want people to believe anything you believe in then offer any form of proof.

I thought that some members would have more sense than to post more religious claptrap, but as this is an open forum where we can all post what we want as long as we don't get personal, then balance should be the order of the day.

This is why I make comments on this particular subject.

So "That individual loses the argument every time by stating her/his opinion and then rubbishing other's contribution, so any attempt at sensible discussion just doesn't work" comment should be seen for the biased ideology that it belongs to.

I live in a country where almost all the people I meet laugh at most types of religion.
Just because the Philippines is still dominated by Catholicism doesn't mean that we in England have to buy into that.

I refuse to prove that I exist,” says God, “for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing. – Douglas Adams

[Arthur Little]

The simple fact of the matter is that Christianity is in terminal decline, so all of you bible readers can hang on to a dying brainwashing ideology without any proof.
*Once again, I ask any of you to even show a tiny morsel of any proof........
From the previous posts that we have had on this subject, no proof has ever been forthcoming.

I refuse to prove that I exist,” says God, “for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing. – Douglas Adams

IMPOSSIBLE! :rolleyes: NO-ONE on this Earth can either PROVE or DISPROVE the existence of an Almighty Creator. :NoNo: All Christians can do is BELIEVE ... believe in the Power of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and be guided by their FAITH. And, moreover, contrary to what YOU imply, the Bible [which - to my shame - I HAVEN'T read!] is reputed to account for the LARGEST number of literary sales worldwide. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

The interesting thing for me is that the declining popularity of the church means that there are less and less children to have to swallow these ridiculous fairy tales.

In the media and in the pubs all over the land, religion is ridiculed every day.
So once again why try to infect this forum with religion,Go to church, mosque or synagogue and enjoy what you do in your own private way, but don't bring these hair-brained notions to the forum.



I thought that some members would have more sense than to post more religious claptrap, but as this is an open forum where we can all post what we want as long as we don't get personal, then balance should be the order of the day.



So "That individual loses the argument every time by stating her/his opinion and then rubbishing other's contribution, so any attempt at sensible discussion just doesn't work" comment should be seen for the biased ideology that it belongs to.

I live in a country where almost all the people I meet laugh at most types of religion.

I refuse to prove that I exist,” says God, “for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing. – Douglas Adams

Ridiculous fairy tales ... religion is mocked by the media, and in pubs ... hair-brained notions ... religious claptrap ... people scoffing at most types of religion? NOW, who's being personal? :doh

[Arthur Little]

Just because the Philippines is still dominated by Catholicism doesn't mean that we in England have to buy into that.

I'm sure YOU know as well as I do ... that the Reformation of the Church in England partly came about in an attempt to stamp out idolitary.

:yeahthat:

Anyway, I live in Scotland - which accounts for 7% of the 10 percent of the Nation's churchgoers. So we're not all heathens up here! :nono-1-1:

[Arthur Little]

For once and for all ... I started this thread in all innocence. :innocent1: But ironically, it has since occurred to me that it could equally-well serve as an indicator of how materialistic Western Society in general has become! Hopefully, each of us can live our lives peacefully in whichever ways we choose - so long as we neither hurt nor harm anyone else in the process! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[triple5]

In the media and in the pubs all over the land, religion is ridiculed every day.

So you trust the media apo? :icon_lol: A bigger brainwashing tool as any religion :doh And if people in pubs are saying it well it must be the gospel :doh Are these drunkards the modern day prophets and philosophhers now :Erm:

As Arthur says proof works both ways. You can't prove there isn't a God as much as anybody can :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[sars_notd_virus]

I live in a country where almost all the people I meet laugh at most types of religion....??? :Erm::Erm:



Religion does not matter.....Catholic, many are Christian, some are Islamic, and a few are Jewish, and they all prayed to the same God (who is called by different names). I am sure that He does not much care if those praying go to different places of worship on different days of the week. God looks directly into the hearts of people Mr. Aposhark.

[aposhark]

Ridiculous fairy tales ... religion is mocked by the media, and in pubs ... hair-brained notions ... religious claptrap ... people scoffing at most types of religion? NOW, who's being personal? :doh

I have not mentioned you by name or insulted you, however I still know that it is best for people in the UK not to talk about religion in public.
I think we all know that by doing so will mostly attract scorn.
This is why manic street preachers are often ridiculed in the street.
They were in Chester when I lived there.

[aposhark]

IMPOSSIBLE! :rolleyes: NO-ONE on this Earth can either PROVE or DISPROVE the existence of an Almighty Creator. :NoNo: All Christians can do is BELIEVE ... believe in the Power of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and be guided by their FAITH. And, moreover, contrary to what YOU imply, the Bible [which - to my shame - I HAVEN'T read!] is reputed to account for the LARGEST number of literary sales worldwide. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

It is not up to an atheist to prove anything :xxgrinning--00xx3:
If this book really did it's job, why is Christianity in decline :rolleyes:

[aposhark]

I'm sure YOU know as well as I do ... that the Reformation of the Church in England partly came about in an attempt to stamp out idolitary.

:yeahthat:

Anyway, I live in Scotland - which accounts for 7% of the 10 percent of the Nation's churchgoers. So we're not all heathens up here! :nono-1-1:

Heathens? Come on, are you living in the past?
You'll be calling us devil worshippers next, and incidently hell and the devil also do not exist, or are you still falling for that too :icon_lol:
It is all so outdated and from a different era, when the church meant so much to so many people.
Thankfully figures and trends show that people have gradually seen sense and have left the church in their millions in the UK.

[aposhark]

For once and for all ... I started this thread in all innocence. :innocent1: But ironically, it has since occurred to me that it could equally-well serve as an indicator of how materialistic Western Society in general has become! Hopefully, each of us can live our lives peacefully in whichever ways we choose - so long as we neither hurt nor harm anyone else in the process! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

So, if there was a "god" and a "jesus", why does the church need so much land and property :yikes:, and do you think "jesus" would approve? I thought he was supposed to have thrown the money lenders out.
Live lives peacefully???? Why do religious types knock on peoples' doors whilst they are relaxing at home?
I call that an invasion of privacy.

[aposhark]

Religion does not matter.....Catholic, many are Christian, some are Islamic, and a few are Jewish, and they all prayed to the same God (who is called by different names). I am sure that He does not much care if those praying go to different places of worship on different days of the week. God looks directly into the hearts of people Mr. Aposhark.

Thank you for your reply.
My replies have been to consistently ask for any proof of a "god", and as none has ever been submitted in the past ANYWHERE and ANY TIME, I can deduce that there is no such thing as a "god".
Ask yourself why there are so many churches in the Philippines, in a country where there is a great deal of poverty.
Is that right and just. So much money tied up by people who won't even sanction the use of condoms to alleviate the conditions of the poor.
In more wealthy countries, Catholicism is dying fast - people are too busy to buy into any more brainwashing.
People prefer to live for the here and now, not the promise that everything will be better when they are dead :yikes:

[triple5]

It is not up to an atheist to prove anything :xxgrinning--00xx3:
If this book really did it's job, why is Christianity in decline :rolleyes:

The media, like you said :xxgrinning--00xx3: They're a new type of religion in a way, certainly got the masses worshipping some strange beings. Jordan, Beckham etc :Erm: You said it yourself the media openly mock christianity, and they're doing a fine job of now turning the non-believers against Islam, making it looki like nothing but a violent religion :doh I even saw the Sun picking on Buddhism the last time I fancied a laugh :rolleyes:

Why is it not up to the atheist to prove anything :Erm: You want proof there is no God, but you can't prove there isn't.

[triple5]

Religion does not matter.....Catholic, many are Christian, some are Islamic, and a few are Jewish, and they all prayed to the same God (who is called by different names). I am sure that He does not much care if those praying go to different places of worship on different days of the week. God looks directly into the hearts of people Mr. Aposhark.

they all prayed to the same God (who is called by different names)

Spot on :xxgrinning--00xx3: Though the media would have me believe otherwise :doh

[laurel]

Hi Apo, I agree that this can be a HOT topic and arouse deep seated emotions.
But I posted a reply a week ago and i will repost it now.


Hi guys, just putting this out there for your CONSIDERATION!!

For those who believe in a God and revere the scriptures as being divinely inspired , why doesnt 'christianity' follow what the Bible teaches?

noted philosopher Soren Kierkegaard once said: "The Christianity of the New Testament simply does not exist. Millions of people through the centuries have little by little cheated God out of Christianity and have succeeded in making Christianity exactly the opposite of what it is in the New Testament."

Where's Christmas, Easter, etc commanded in the Bible, where is Sunday mentioned as the Sabbath??

Maybe we dont follow what the Bible teaches at all .

Quote fromCardinal James Gibbons , leading Catholic Cardinal, in 1876
: "But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify. The Catholic Church correctly teaches that our Lord and His Apostles inculcated certain important duties of religion which are not recorded by the inspired writers.

There are loads of examples of leading 'church men who agree that Sunday was never authorised by the Bible.
As i say guys for consideration and please no unpleasant mud slinging............we'reall adults here .



My point is that most people assume certain things, but my suggestion is this.

The 'religion ' in the Bible is not necesarily the kind practiced by most today.
If that is the case then all we are doing here is ranting and raving about FALSE religion , and not the one left behind in the scriptures.
As for 'proof' heres a food for thought and this is an undisputed fact!!.
There has never been any archaeological find that has been contrary to the scriptures, all finds have only substantiated what has been found in the Biblical text, as recently as 1993 there was NO evidence that King David existed, then evidence was unearthed that was written about him by his enemies, and now its accepted that he did exist and it supports the Bible.
This is just for you and everyone to ponder on.
I can see its a sore point for you and you get a bit wound up....theres no point in doing that.
It would be nice if it can be discussed rationally, most of us are here cos we are in love with a filipina, thats one thing we ALL have in common , and BTW ive enjoyed reading about your Panaginip story.

[aposhark]

......Why is it not up to the atheist to prove anything :Erm: You want proof there is no God, but you can't prove there isn't.

I like to have proof of any claims that are made.
I have five senses that indicate everything to me in this world.
If someone told you the earth was flat, wouldn't you like proof of that fact ?
You know that the earth is spheroidal and under the influence of gravity so you won't fall off.
I like proof of any ridiculous claims, especially if these claims have gone on for hundreds of years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

[aposhark]

Hi Apo, I agree that this can be a HOT topic and arouse deep seated emotions.
But I posted a reply a week ago and i will repost it now.


Hi guys, just putting this out there for your CONSIDERATION!!

For those who believe in a God and revere the scriptures as being divinely inspired , why doesnt 'christianity' follow what the Bible teaches?

noted philosopher Soren Kierkegaard once said: "The Christianity of the New Testament simply does not exist. Millions of people through the centuries have little by little cheated God out of Christianity and have succeeded in making Christianity exactly the opposite of what it is in the New Testament."

Where's Christmas, Easter, etc commanded in the Bible, where is Sunday mentioned as the Sabbath??

Maybe we dont follow what the Bible teaches at all .

Quote fromCardinal James Gibbons , leading Catholic Cardinal, in 1876
: "But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify. The Catholic Church correctly teaches that our Lord and His Apostles inculcated certain important duties of religion which are not recorded by the inspired writers.

There are loads of examples of leading 'church men who agree that Sunday was never authorised by the Bible.
As i say guys for consideration and please no unpleasant mud slinging............we'reall adults here .



My point is that most people assume certain things, but my suggestion is this.

The 'religion ' in the Bible is not necesarily the kind practiced by most today.
If that is the case then all we are doing here is ranting and raving about FALSE religion , and not the one left behind in the scriptures.
As for 'proof' heres a food for thought and this is an undisputed fact!!.
There has never been any archaeological find that has been contrary to the scriptures, all finds have only substantiated what has been found in the Biblical text, as recently as 1993 there was NO evidence that King David existed, then evidence was unearthed that was written about him by his enemies, and now its accepted that he did exist and it supports the Bible.
This is just for you and everyone to ponder on.
I can see its a sore point for you and you get a bit wound up....theres no point in doing that.
It would be nice if it can be discussed rationally, most of us are here cos we are in love with a filipina, thats one thing we ALL have in common , and BTW ive enjoyed reading about your Panaginip story.

I am not wound up....the people who believe in something without proof have been wound up for centuries :icon_lol:
If there are some stories in the bible that mention some historical fact and then archeology proves it then that is great.
I and millions of others would like to see any proof that there is a "god".
As yet, we continue our lives in the here and now.
My wife is still beautiful to me, moreso now with her bump :heartshape1:
Our little daughter will come soon.
We have seen the scans and watched her moving her tiny hands and feet, now that is the reason why I am alive :Jump:

[laurel]

My wife is still beautiful to me, moreso now with her bump
Our little daughter will come soon.
We have seen the scans and watched her moving her tiny hands and feet, now that is the reason why I am alive





:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

Hi Apo, I agree that this can be a HOT topic and arouse deep seated emotions.
But I posted a reply a week ago and i will repost it now.


Hi guys, just putting this out there for your CONSIDERATION!!

For those who believe in a God and revere the scriptures as being divinely inspired , why doesnt 'christianity' follow what the Bible teaches?

noted philosopher Soren Kierkegaard once said: "The Christianity of the New Testament simply does not exist. Millions of people through the centuries have little by little cheated God out of Christianity and have succeeded in making Christianity exactly the opposite of what it is in the New Testament."

Where's Christmas, Easter, etc commanded in the Bible, where is Sunday mentioned as the Sabbath??

Maybe we dont follow what the Bible teaches at all .

Quote fromCardinal James Gibbons , leading Catholic Cardinal, in 1876
: "But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify. The Catholic Church correctly teaches that our Lord and His Apostles inculcated certain important duties of religion which are not recorded by the inspired writers.

There are loads of examples of leading 'church men who agree that Sunday was never authorised by the Bible.
As i say guys for consideration and please no unpleasant mud slinging............we'reall adults here .



My point is that most people assume certain things, but my suggestion is this.

The 'religion ' in the Bible is not necesarily the kind practiced by most today.
If that is the case then all we are doing here is ranting and raving about FALSE religion , and not the one left behind in the scriptures.
As for 'proof' heres a food for thought and this is an undisputed fact!!.
There has never been any archaeological find that has been contrary to the scriptures, all finds have only substantiated what has been found in the Biblical text, as recently as 1993 there was NO evidence that King David existed, then evidence was unearthed that was written about him by his enemies, and now its accepted that he did exist and it supports the Bible.
This is just for you and everyone to ponder on.
I can see its a sore point for you and you get a bit wound up....theres no point in doing that.
It would be nice if it can be discussed rationally, most of us are here cos we are in love with a filipina, thats one thing we ALL have in common , and BTW ive enjoyed reading about your Panaginip story.

Hi laurel, thanks for reading this thread and many posts.
It is good that archeologists confirm some historical facts that the bible mentioned.
As yet however, there is still no proof of a "god".
Millions of people in the history of mankind would be shocked to find out about any proof.

Thanks for reading about "Panaginip".
She is still my dream in life, my true love and the nicest person I have ever met anywhere.
I am a very lucky man to have met such a beautiful loving wife, and there is a mini-Panaginip coming in the next 9 weeks so our home is full of love and kisses.
I just continue to work all the hours I can to provide for her, and when I see her beautiful smile at the door when I come home after work, it makes everything worthwhile :heartshape1:

[aposhark]

Hi laurel, sorry I don't know how posting under your name could have happened :yikes::yikes:
Very strange :rolleyes:

[laurel]

Hi laurel, sorry I don't know how posting under your name could have happened :yikes::yikes:
Very strange :rolleyes:

What happened did i miss something??

[laurel]

:) i see .........my mistske didnt use the quote function properly.........................wheres a red face when u need it:)

[triple5]

I like to have proof of any claims that are made.
I have five senses that indicate everything to me in this world.
If someone told you the earth was flat, wouldn't you like proof of that fact ?
You know that the earth is spheroidal and under the influence of gravity so you won't fall off.
I like proof of any ridiculous claims, especially if these claims have gone on for hundreds of years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Yep, I'm the same - I want proof before I commit to believing in something, or dedicating my life to it. But in the case of God nobody can prove his exitence or nonexistence. On Nigel's thread, "If you could teach the world one thing..." My reply was that if we taught kids from an early age about the "facts" of religion - that we don't actually know all the answers, sometime in the future one of those kids might grow up and work it all out :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Religion has got pretty messed up over the years, no doubt about it, and even though I don't adhere to any of them I'm pretty certain there is intelligent design to everything in the universe :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

:) i see .........my mistske didnt use the quote function properly.........................wheres a red face when u need it:)

Life's full of those little moments :icon_lol:

[fred]

Being the pope means never having to say your sorry.

[Arthur Little]

Arthur's integrity is never in doubt to me and the many forum members whom he has personally supported through their good and bad news. That's why he is a trusted member. To become one you have to earn respect over time. It's not easily achieved and rightly so. Anything I say related to health is evidence based, not opinion alone.
There is a huge amount of evidence supporting Arthur's trusted status on this forum. I trust him implicitly :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Thank you my friend ... for your kind words, as always ... and for your confidence in me. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

Life's full of those little moments :icon_lol:

:icon_lol: ... like the image you've posted, Mike! Proves you haven't lost your sense of humour, my friend.

[JimOttley]

Yep, I'm the same - I want proof before I commit to believing in something, or dedicating my life to it. But in the case of God nobody can prove his existence or nonexistence. On Nigel's thread, "If you could teach the world one thing..." My reply was that if we taught kids from an early age about the "facts" of religion - that we don't actually know all the answers, sometime in the future one of those kids might grow up and work it all out :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Religion has got pretty messed up over the years, no doubt about it, and even though I don't adhere to any of them I'm pretty certain there is intelligent design to everything in the universe :xxgrinning--00xx3:

One of the big mistakes of the Christian faith (and probably many others) has been its attempts to invoke God via the argument of intelligent design.

Intelligent design like many other religious concepts attempts to REDUCE God to a level comprehensible by humans instead of attempting to expand our comprehension to approach the sheer wonder of an existence on the inside of a 13.5 billion year old probability explosion.

Just try to get your mind around the sheer size of the reality we live in.....

Every concept of God that I have ever seen fails horribly in terms of scale, the sheer scale of what religion calls Creation and science calls the Universe (in reality more likely the Multiverse) is so much larger in both time and space than this small planet and its population of a thin skin of animated carbon based compounds.

We as a species have been here for the blink of an eye, we might not be here for much longer, so why is the creation malarkey so big, what was it doing all that time before we woke up?

My point is that God in the conventional sense is human like, with behaviour and emotional judgement not unlike our own human judgement, as a favourite author once said "most religions cooked up a God that has the manners and morals of a spoiled child" (think old testament tantrums).

The place we live in and the stuff we are made of has an unbelievable beauty in terms of its behaviour and the math describing that behaviour, what we see around us and what we are is the emergent behaviour of the materials from which we are made and the fundamental rules that govern the interactions of said materials.

If you want to call that God then go ahead, for me at least you would be welcome, the rules, the math, the fabric might as well be God at least that God would be on the same scale as the observable Universe, the alternative is proposing a God that is outside and disconnected from the Creation/Universe and then we are back to the "why is it so big and why so complex a creation"? question.

If you stretch the scale even further, taking into account potential mathematical evidence (and possibly some observational evidence) for a multiverse, where does that leave a local benevolent God modelled on a human pattern with human like concerns about our behaviour?

It's a big place people and it's a very beautiful and mysterious place, it may well have a force behind it but it is unlikely in my opinion to be the God of the Christian faith or that of any other contemporary faiths.

One last thing in a recent bit of research that I had to conduct into finding the best current available solutions to a particular business problem known as the Job Shop Scheduling Problem, I had to investigate Genetic Algorithms and programming. I can point you at simple fully working examples of programs that will EVOLVE the answer to complex optimisation problems in a relatively short space of time by employing Darwinian evolution in a mathematical model inside a computer program, hell give me a few more weeks and I will probably be writing this kind of code myself, it's fascinating and for me I can see more of a universal God in the Maths underlying our reality than I can in the consciousness of human beings inhabiting it.

[LEAHnew]

How I wish I could customize this thread as invisible for us Filipina, coz of some opinions that are offended of what we believe. In the past there's a lot of thread ended up like this, but we Filipina mostly keeping silent and didn't posted as much as we want in order for us to defend what we believe, coz of the language:Erm: that we have to use...oh well maybe it's just me:doh.....I'd rather ignore it than to have a terrible nose bleed:yikes::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:
To my dear kuya Arthur I know it's not your intention to end up like this:NoNo::NoNo: and to our Gentleman here.....let's move on and clear the air....:xxgrinning--00xx3:...You are all admired cos of intelligent views..................but hey you can't translate you post in Filipino Language:rolleyes::icon_lol::Rasp::Cuckoo:

[JimOttley]

Arthur's integrity is never in doubt to me and the many forum members whom he has personally supported through their good and bad news. That's why he is a trusted member. To become one you have to earn respect over time. It's not easily achieved and rightly so. Anything I say related to health is evidence based, not opinion alone.
There is a huge amount of evidence supporting Arthur's trusted status on this forum. I trust him implicitly :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I would second that, Arthur is a good man!

I must confess that I had not read all of the thread before I posted my own take on things last night and had not realised the passions that had been stirred up :)

For myself I was born and brought up in the Catholic faith, I had issues with the faith as a young man in part because of of the way we were taught and in part because of my intense interest in science.

Aged 14 our Religious Knowledge (RK) teacher Father Diamond changed tack and introduced the argument by design, now up to that point there had been no arguments no philosophy and only bold statements of fact, this is how it all happened and this is what you will believe etc. So it was odd that suddenly when we were around about 14 years old they felt the need to prove things to us :)

To cut a long story short our RK class turned into a heated debate chamber for the next several weeks, I was a very shy young man at the time very odd for me to speak out the way I did, anyway eventually we agreed that it boiled down to faith, you either had it or you didn't.

I regret that argument now because many in my class at school were swayed by my arguments, in favour of Science and "proof", so as time has passed and my overall experience of life has grown and also as my studies in subject areas that interest me have expanded, I have grown to realise that Scientific certainty and "proof" is actually rather thin on the ground.

This does not diminish my view that Science, Natural Philosophy and Mathematics offer a unique and wonderful, beautiful insight into the nature of our reality however there are specific questions as to what constitute a proof.

Gödel's incompleteness theorems are extremely important in this context see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del's_incompleteness_theorems

The following is a quote from Wikibooks realting to Kurt Godel
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Purpose/G%C3%B6del%E2%80%99s_Theorem,_General_Systems_Theory,_and_The_Conservation_Laws



Kurt Gödel, in a paper published in 1931, proved that any mathematical system that includes the natural numbers (1, 2, 3, and so on) contains questions whose answers can neither be proved nor disproved using the axioms to be found within that system. This is now known as Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem. It implies that there are many mathematical truths that can never be proved, and, by extension, that any system will contain questions that cannot be answered from within that system. Since any meaningful questions that we might ask about the nature of any possible supersystem will inevitably involve use of the natural numbers, there are questions we will never be able to answer. Asking if our universe was “designed to meet some kind of purpose,” is just one such question.

Gödel's work implies that there are things that are intrinsically unknowable and that is the kind of thing that mellows ones attitude particularly as you get a bit older.

This bites both ways, those who have faith and believe in God must accept that they have no proof as by definition they believe through their faith i.e. on trust. Those who demand proof must accept that the Philosophical systems upon which their doubt is based may well be unprovable and that absolute proof of all postulates is impossible!

Stalemate, somewhere near where I found myself at the age of 14 in an argument with a very generous, very understanding, good man, who happened to be a priest in the Catholic faith.

For what it is worth I attend church with my partner Ana in Manila regular as clockwork every Sunday and sometimes weekdays as well, she knows I have strange views that don't exactly mesh with the way she was brought up however she understands that I somehow have a big picture in my mind that is not entirely aesthetic. I can go to church and celebrate the wonder of the creation/universe that I find myself in, its been a wonderful experience existing :)


Jim

[beppe]

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how £20 seems such a large amount when you donate it to the Church ... but such a small amount when you go shopping?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how an hour seems so long in passing when you're in church ... and so short a time when you are watching an exciting film?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how everyone wants front-row seats at a concert ... but do whatever possible to sit in the back row in church?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how difficult and boring it is to read one chapter of the Bible ... yet so easy to read 100 pages of a novel?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how we tend to believe everything magazines and newspapers tell us ... yet question the words contained in the Bible?

isn't strange to pay so much taxes and get back what?

[malditako]

I do believe in GOD and all about his teaching....and my son will surely follow that :)

[malditako]

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how £20 seems such a large amount when you donate it to the Church ... but such a small amount when you go shopping?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how an hour seems so long in passing when you're in church ... and so short a time when you are watching an exciting film?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how everyone wants front-row seats at a concert ... but do whatever possible to sit in the back row in church?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how difficult and boring it is to read one chapter of the Bible ... yet so easy to read 100 pages of a novel?

:rolleyes: Isn't it strange how we tend to believe everything magazines and newspapers tell us ... yet question the words contained in the Bible?

and i do love sitting in front all the time...as i dont want to hear some gossiper talking at the back while the pastor is doing his sermon :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

and i do love sitting in front all the time...as i dont want to hear some gossiper talking at the back while the pastor is doing his sermon :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Quite right! Sadly, :bigcry: I have to admit there does seem to be a propensity to engage in [sometimes] malicious gossip :76: among church members ... the very folk you'd think ought to be "above that sort of thing"! And, there's often a tendency towards *cliquishness also! But, of course, this is liable to be the case WHEREVER large numbers of people are initially gathered together ... and *then drift off into small groups of like-minded souls. :Erm: ... you mention 'pastor' - as opposed to priest - do you belong to the Protestant faith, like me?

[gWaPito]

How I wish I could customize this thread as invisible for us Filipina, coz of some opinions that are offended of what we believe. In the past there's a lot of thread ended up like this, but we Filipina mostly keeping silent and didn't posted as much as we want in order for us to defend what we believe, coz of the language:Erm: that we have to use...oh well maybe it's just me:doh.....I'd rather ignore it than to have a terrible nose bleed:yikes::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:
To my dear kuya Arthur I know it's not your intention to end up like this:NoNo::NoNo: and to our Gentleman here.....let's move on and clear the air....:xxgrinning--00xx3:...You are all admired cos of intelligent views..................but hey you can't translate you post in Filipino Language:rolleyes::icon_lol::Rasp::Cuckoo:

I agree Leah, just simple English will do, you say 'admire'....most people don't like show off's.
This is not a book club:NoNo:
Like you said, many here are just picking up the lingo. I can assure the readers, which more than out number the posters that this how we don't talk it either in the UK:NoNo:

[gWaPito]

I do believe in GOD and all about his teaching....and my son will surely follow that :)

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[malditako]

Quite right! Sadly, :bigcry: I have to admit there does seem to be a propensity to engage in [sometimes] malicious gossip :76: among church members ... the very folk you'd think ought to be "above that sort of thing"! And, there's often a tendency towards *cliquishness also! But, of course, this is liable to be the case WHEREVER large numbers of people are initially gathered together ... and *then drift off into small groups of like-minded souls. :Erm: ... you mention 'pastor' - as opposed to priest - do you belong to the Protestant faith, like me?

im a methodist church member sir arthur..and attended catholics school...talking about GOD...im not into debate but just wnat to point out what i believe in....and for me i dont need proof to believe...as faith doesnt depends on proofs. I described GOD as a wind..we feel it but dont see it. Many have tried tracing Jesus but no one finds proof of his existence...mainly b'coz the bible tells no one can trace GOD!!!!...my husband dont believe in GOD but i have encouraged him to go with me in many occassions...and now he always say "lets pray " :)

[bornatbirth]

i have encouraged him to go with me in many occassions... :)

me too :)

[fred]

I would second that, Arthur is a good man!

I must confess that I had not read all of the thread before I posted my own take on things last night and had not realised the passions that had been stirred up :)

For myself I was born and brought up in the Catholic faith, I had issues with the faith as a young man in part because of of the way we were taught and in part because of my intense interest in science.

Aged 14 our Religious Knowledge (RK) teacher Father Diamond changed tack and introduced the argument by design, now up to that point there had been no arguments no philosophy and only bold statements of fact, this is how it all happened and this is what you will believe etc. So it was odd that suddenly when we were around about 14 years old they felt the need to prove things to us :)

To cut a long story short our RK class turned into a heated debate chamber for the next several weeks, I was a very shy young man at the time very odd for me to speak out the way I did, anyway eventually we agreed that it boiled down to faith, you either had it or you didn't.

I regret that argument now because many in my class at school were swayed by my arguments, in favour of Science and "proof", so as time has passed and my overall experience of life has grown and also as my studies in subject areas that interest me have expanded, I have grown to realise that Scientific certainty and "proof" is actually rather thin on the ground.

This does not diminish my view that Science, Natural Philosophy and Mathematics offer a unique and wonderful, beautiful insight into the nature of our reality however there are specific questions as to what constitute a proof.

Gödel's incompleteness theorems are extremely important in this context see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del's_incompleteness_theorems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems)

The following is a quote from Wikibooks realting to Kurt Godel
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Purpose/G%C3%B6del%E2%80%99s_Theorem,_General_Systems_Theory,_and_The_Conservation_Laws



Gödel's work implies that there are things that are intrinsically unknowable and that is the kind of thing that mellows ones attitude particularly as you get a bit older.

This bites both ways, those who have faith and believe in God must accept that they have no proof as by definition they believe through their faith i.e. on trust. Those who demand proof must accept that the Philosophical systems upon which their doubt is based may well be unprovable and that absolute proof of all postulates is impossible!

Stalemate, somewhere near where I found myself at the age of 14 in an argument with a very generous, very understanding, good man, who happened to be a priest in the Catholic faith.

For what it is worth I attend church with my partner Ana in Manila regular as clockwork every Sunday and sometimes weekdays as well, she knows I have strange views that don't exactly mesh with the way she was brought up however she understands that I somehow have a big picture in my mind that is not entirely aesthetic. I can go to church and celebrate the wonder of the creation/universe that I find myself in, its been a wonderful experience existing :)


Jim

Excellent post Jim.
Sums it all up IMO...Why people are still prepared to argue and fight with absolutely NOTHING in their armoury on either side is way beyond me Im afraid.
Its ironic how many people die each day in this world for holding similar beliefs.
Faith on either side is personal and should stay that way..
They simply cant help themselves I guess.:ARsurrender:

[Arthur Little]

....and for me i dont need proof to believe...as faith doesnt depends on proofs. I described GOD as a wind..we *feel it but dont see it.

:xxgrinning--00xx3: *Absolutely SPOT-ON ... :iagree:!

[Arthur Little]

im a methodist church member sir arthur..and attended catholics school...talking about GOD...im not into debate but just wnat to point out what i believe in....!...my husband dont believe in GOD but i have encouraged him to go with me in many occassions...and now he always say "lets pray " :)

:) It's really encouraging to LEARN that about your husband ... it just goes to prove - yet again :rolleyes: - what the love of a good Filipina :love2: can achieve for a man!

[malditako]

:) It's really encouraging to LEARN that about your husband ... it just goes to prove - yet again :rolleyes: - what the love of a good Filipina :love2: can achieve for a man!

:xxgrinning--00xx3:
:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

Excellent post Jim.
Sums it all up IMO...Why people are still prepared to argue and fight with absolutely NOTHING in their armoury on either side is way beyond me Im afraid.
Its ironic how many people die each day in this world for holding similar beliefs.
Faith on either side is personal and should stay that way..
They simply cant help themselves I guess.:ARsurrender:
The words in bold indicate for me what I believe about religion, Fred.
I am willing to bet you have beliefs which you are passionate about :rolleyes:
People often rant on this forum about things which others could not care one jot, one reason why there is a rant section.
We are all individuals yet groups of individuals pat each other on the back trying to justify their ideology.

Religious people who post here many times about "god" and "jesus" for example hopefully realise that others have opposite views.
They all get flustered and angry when athiests ask for proof.

Some things that concern you would likewise not concern others.

[gWaPito]

The words in bold indicate for me what I believe about religion, Fred.
I am willing to bet you have beliefs which you are passionate about :rolleyes:
People often rant on this forum about things which others could not care one jot, one reason why there is a rant section.
We are all individuals yet groups of individuals pat each other on the back trying to justify their ideology.

Religious people who post here many times about "god" and "jesus" for example hopefully realise that others have opposite views.
They all get flustered and angry when athiests ask for proof.

Some things that concern you would likewise not concern others.

Apo, your posts on this thread and your 'cardinal' thread are peppered with contradictions, have you been taking lessons from queenbeee?:NoNo:

I think you will find it is you and you only getting 'flustered' and 'angry' so, like you said, 'more important thing to talk about'

If you want to rant on and continute in this vein then, carry on.

[Steve.r]

:icon_sorry:
The words in bold indicate for me what I believe about religion, Fred.

People often rant on this forum about things which others could not care one jot,Some things that concern you would likewise not concern others.

Apo, so why post your views on something you clearly want to know nothing about?? Didn't you say in a previous post that you should keep your ideas to yourself ??

Pot, kettle and black spring to mind.

At the end of the day, you believe what you want, let others believe what they want, if you need proof one way or the other, find it yourself, and keep it to yourself. Other people dont really care for your conclusions.

[aposhark]

:icon_sorry:

Apo, so why post your views on something you clearly want to know nothing about?? Didn't you say in a previous post that you should keep your ideas to yourself ??

Pot, kettle and black spring to mind.

At the end of the day, you believe what you want, let others believe what they want, if you need proof one way or the other, find it yourself, and keep it to yourself. Other people dont really care for your conclusions.

You are a joker, aren't you :)

I don't know how many times I have to mention this, but it is about balance. on this forum.
It is my fervent belief that this forum should not be taken over by religious overtones.
This is page 8 so people do care.
Filipinos that come to the UK will mostly meet people who do not go to church.
Christianity is in decline, get used to it.

[aposhark]

Apo, your posts on this thread and your 'cardinal' thread are peppered with contradictions, have you been taking lessons from queenbeee?:NoNo:

I think you will find it is you and you only getting 'flustered' and 'angry' so, like you said, 'more important thing to talk about'

If you want to rant on and continute in this vein then, carry on.

Who is ranting? :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

[Steve.r]

Who is ranting? :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

I am afraid it is you that rants Apo.

We all have shown tollerance and respect for all views. Maybe that is a religeous view, or maybe it is just a basic moralistic view on how we treat others. If you have any respect for people, whether they have belifes or not, you would not have to think you have to fight a cause for which you also have no proof.

Now, all that said, I am sure you will not be able to let this lie. You will have to have the last word because you think you are loosing. If that is the case, choose wisely, you are no doing yourself any favours, and that is just my personal view. We can all make arses of ourselves, just some do it more publically than others. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

I am afraid it is you that rants Apo.

We all have shown tollerance and respect for all views. Maybe that is a religeous view, or maybe it is just a basic moralistic view on how we treat others. If you have any respect for people, whether they have belifes or not, you would not have to think you have to fight a cause for which you also have no proof.

Now, all that said, I am sure you will not be able to let this lie. You will have to have the last word because you think you are loosing. If that is the case, choose wisely, you are no doing yourself any favours, and that is just my personal view. We can all make arses of ourselves, just some do it more publically than others. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

You are not very comfortable with balance are you Steve?
Once again, I do not need to give you any proof as there is no "god"
If there is, let everyone know what it is please.
I do not think I am loosing (sic), what on earth gave you that idea?
Do use a spell checker by the way, don't make an "****" of yourself, and don't be afraid :)

[Steve.r]

Ha ha!! you lose,:icon_lol::icon_lol: as soon as you get personal you lose any integrity you thought you had..... so I make a spelling mistake, God strike me down.

If you have to reply, and of course you will have to reply, try to be nice and play fair ok. :heartshape1:

[bornatbirth]

whats strange is this thread is 8 pages long? :)

i think apo is enjoying himself :Erm:

[Arthur Little]

whats strange is this thread is 8 pages long? :)

:iagree: ... Amazing, isn't it!? :cwm24: NEVER, in my wildest dreams, did I imagine it would reach THIS length! :NoNo: I think it's even longer than YOUR thread on 'farting' ...

[Arthur Little]

I think it's even longer than YOUR thread on *'farting' ...

:icon_lol: ... while on the *said subject ... WHAT started off as a [small] "pff" (no suitable icon yet for this natural bodily function!) has developed into a "thunderstorm" - for which a certain gentleman shows no signs of apo(logising)! :icon_sorry:

[Doc Alan]

:icon_lol: ... while on the *said subject ... WHAT started off as a [small] "pff" (no suitable icon yet for this natural bodily function!) has developed into a "thunderstorm" - for which a certain gentleman shows no signs of apo(logising)! :icon_sorry:Only you could pull this one off Arthur (in a manner of speaking) :doh A seemingly inoffensive thread runs to over 200 posts, with no apocalypse, not sure if it's reached an apogee, caused some apoplexy, no apostasy, my apostrophies are in the correct places, it's reached an apotheosis ...and through it all you have to my knowledge remained friends with every contributor ! Congratulations ! It confirms what we all think, you deserve to be a trusted member :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

Ha ha!! you lose,:icon_lol::icon_lol: as soon as you get personal you lose any integrity you thought you had..... so I make a spelling mistake, God strike me down.

If you have to reply, and of course you will have to reply, try to be nice and play fair ok. :heartshape1:
"god" cannot strike you down because "it" doesn't exist.
So you are safe :xxgrinning--00xx3:
Is that fair enough for you? :icon_lol:

[aposhark]

whats strange is this thread is 8 pages long? :)

i think apo is enjoying himself :Erm:

I always enjoy taking religious bods to task.
Whether (or should it be weather for Steve.r :icon_lol:) it be in real life or on our favourite forum :)
Us atheists have thick skins but we don't have knobbly knees because we don't have to kneel down begging for forgiveness (oops confessing) on the other side of a curtain :icon_lol:

[Steve.r]

So you are safe :xxgrinning--00xx3:
Is that fair enough for you? :icon_lol:

:xxgrinning--00xx3: :icon_lol:

[aposhark]

:icon_lol: ... while on the *said subject ... WHAT started off as a [small] "pff" (no suitable icon yet for this natural bodily function!) has developed into a "thunderstorm" - for which a certain gentleman shows no signs of apo(logising)! :icon_sorry:

An athiest apologising Arthur?
Have another nice malt and dream on :D
There's more chance of the pope relinquishing his stash of jewels and standing down for all the abuse his underlings have perpetrated :rolleyes: :icon_lol:

[KeithD]

whats strange is this thread is 8 pages long? :)


....and most threads by then have somehow managed to morph into sexual innuendos :Sex:

[stevewool]

we hall hav hour own beleefs and opinyons and mi sphellings not good too, but hay ho more to life

[aposhark]

....and most threads by then have somehow managed to morph into sexual innuendos :Sex:

I thought the priests did that, boss :)

[KeithD]

I thought the priests did that, boss :)

But they 'actually' do it :rolleyes:

[bornatbirth]

:iagree: ... Amazing, isn't it!? :cwm24: NEVER, in my wildest dreams, did I imagine it would reach THIS length! :NoNo: I think it's even longer than YOUR thread on 'farting' ...

yes, who would of thought that a thread on farting would be more than a wiff of a few pages long :action-smiley-081: :D and this thread is having a bad wiff about it :Erm:


....and most threads by then have somehow managed to morph into sexual innuendos :Sex:

usually started by you :icon_lol:

[gWaPito]

Who is ranting? :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

you may dictate what is discussed and what is not discussed in your household. This forum is not your household.

You claim you have travelled the world and seen first hand what religion brings.
I wonder what circus you where in?
because with all the bullcrap and wind ups coming from your posts it couldn't be anything to do with intellect:NoNo::NoNo:

What you must remember, when you did your Marco Polo routine you already had an agenda fixed in your mind, set from the early years of your childhood.

You did not leave with an open mind, it was already clouded.

I think of those people in Baclaran chuch, the church loaded all day, these people have nothing else, no money as there God, they have only there faith.
You on the otherhand have, I dare say you have no idea what adversity is, when you have nothing but hope and prayer.
How dare you mock those God fearing people, the salt of the earth.

I was humbled into tears on my first visit there with my wife, and you mock!
Lets see what happens when your suffering wife get her permanant UK status.
5 years is a small price to pay.

[aposhark]

you may dictate what is discussed and what is not discussed in your household. This forum is not your household.

You claim you have travelled the world and seen first hand what religion brings.
I wonder what circus you where in?
because with all the bullcrap and wind ups coming from your posts it couldn't be anything to do with intellect:NoNo::NoNo:

What you must remember, when you did your Marco Polo routine you already had an agenda fixed in your mind, set from the early years of your childhood.

You did not leave with an open mind, it was already clouded.

I think of those people in Baclaran chuch, the church loaded all day, these people have nothing else, no money as there God, they have only there faith.
You on the otherhand have, I dare say you have no idea what adversity is, when you have nothing but hope and prayer.
How dare you mock those God fearing people, the salt of the earth.

I was humbled into tears on my first visit there with my wife, and you mock!
Lets see what happens when your suffering wife get her permanant UK status.
5 years is a small price to pay.

You have consistently missed the point of my posts and I am still waiting for any proof of a "god" or a "jesus" :icon_lol:
I am still waiting for any proof whilst you desend into frustrating gibberish :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:
You can shut me up for good by offering any proof that the bible is nothing more than fairy tales.
Now, on the subject of intellect, isn't it intelligent to want proof of something before you fall hook, line and sinker for a set of beliefs that has been the reason for so many wars and so many deaths.
Delusion is what you are living with :yikes: :icon_lol:

Your delusion even stretches so far to think that anyone could possibly dictate what free and democratic forums can include.
You are now doing what the church has tried to do for eons - to silence any free thinking.
You will fail as the church has done, only one of the reasons why Christianity is in decline.

[gWaPito]

You have consistently missed the point of my posts and I am still waiting for any proof of a "god" or a "jesus" :icon_lol:
I am still waiting for any proof whilst you desend into frustrating gibberish :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:
You can shut me up for good by offering any proof that the bible is nothing more than fairy tales.
Now, on the subject of intellect, isn't it intelligent to want proof of something before you fall hook, line and sinker for a set of beliefs that has been the reason for so many wars and so many deaths.
Delusion is what you are living with :yikes: :icon_lol:

Your delusion even stretches so far to think that anyone could possibly dictate what free and democratic forums can include.
You are now doing what the church has tried to do for eons - to silence any free thinking.
You will fail as the church has done, only one of the reasons why Christianity is in decline.

It is you that is attacking, not me.
It is you that has a problem with 'free thinking'

I don't have a problem with what you think, it is you that has the problem what I think.
I don't have to prove anything to you.
What I don't like and the thousands of others reading your stuff is your mocking.
It is not called for.
I would like to add the you sir are not representative on the thinking of the average male in the UK.
I hope this removes any worries from filipinas reading 'Aposharks' posts and threads.

[gWaPito]

Apo, I really do hope and pray the birth of your child goes well and that he/she leads a contentful life.

I do wonder what life your child will have?
No doubt he/she will be loved by you both.
How about the tooth fairy?
How about Easter and Christmas times? I went to a primary school that celabrated these events.
I remember Christmas times at school, the plays that were performed, I remember over the years playing a star, a sheperd, the rear end of a Donkey and lastly Joseph.
They were such special times for a child just starting out in life.
I doubt you had that, as a child. I wonder if you will allow your wife and child the joy of the experince?
I wonder if you will be one of the proud fathers watching your Son/Daughter act for the first time play may be either Joseph or Mary?

[aposhark]

It is you that is attacking, not me.
It is you that has a problem with 'free thinking'

I don't have a problem with what you think, it is you that has the problem what I think.
I don't have to prove anything to you.
What I don't like and the thousands of others reading your stuff is your mocking.
It is not called for.
I would like to add the you sir are not representative on the thinking of the average male in the UK.
I hope this removes any worries from filipinas reading 'Aposharks' posts and threads.

I am not mocking you, this is a perception you have because of fear of the truth.
If anyone googles "UK Christianity Decline" they will find almost 1 million hits.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=uk+christianity+decline&btnG=Google+Search&rlz=1R2GGLL_enGB372
just gave me "About 972,000 results (0.27 seconds)"

You are trying to hide the truth from Filipinas who will only find this truth if and when they come to live here.
It is not me that has caused this decline, it is the vast numbers of people who have made this choice by themselves.

It is not a good idea to get yourself bent out of shape because of the truth, as the truth will be easy for anyone to find out anyway.
You should be calm about the truth because not accepting the truth will only drive you over the edge.

History has shown that killing, torturing and using religious beliefs as reasons for war will eventually be seen by sane people for what it is.
So, continue to go to church and believe your ideology without proof; if that floats your boat then enjoy the sail as this is the present speed of Christianity.

You cannot stop free thinking of the masses who have refused en-masse to put bums on seats and believe men who have little credibility in the modern age - now.

You also cannot paste over the anti-moralistic cracks in Catholic churches for example that is constantly fighting scandal from within.
So when many have said "yes my son" and mean something so totally opposite and sinister, ask yourself why it has been so easy to lose thier sheep.

Any form of proof from you would help your case immeasurably, until then keep dreaming on about the afterlife :)

[Arthur Little]

I think of those people in Baclaran chuch, the church loaded all day, these people have nothing else, no money as there God, they have only there faith.

Sadly, :bigcry: what Mark (gWaPito) says is sooooooo TRUE, Mike! ALL these poor, unfortunate people HAVE to cling to IS their faith ... FAITH that SOMEwhere, someHOW and someday - when the perpetual struggle of their "miserable" Earthly existence is over - there is a better life awaiting them. Otherwise, what's the point of their having been born in the first place! :ARsurrender:

Or can I assume YOU completely disparage the very notion of a 'hereafter' ... life after death ... or indeed ANY concept of reincarnation? :rolleyes:

[aposhark]

Apo, I really do hope and pray the birth of your child goes well and that he/she leads a contentful life.

I do wonder what life your child will have?
No doubt he/she will be loved by you both.
How about the tooth fairy?
How about Easter and Christmas times? I went to a primary school that celabrated these events.
I remember Christmas times at school, the plays that were performed, I remember over the years playing a star, a sheperd, the rear end of a Donkey and lastly Joseph.
They were such special times for a child just starting out in life.
I doubt you had that, as a child. I wonder if you will allow your wife and child the joy of the experince?
I wonder if you will be one of the proud fathers watching your Son/Daughter act for the first time play may be either Joseph or Mary?

You really are quite entertaining in your lack of perception, symptomatic of the old fashioned ideology(ies) you follow..
Christian religious education in UK schools in 2010 is an option.
As part of a multi-cultural society, do you really think Muslim children for example would have to dress up as Joseph or Mary?
You are sadly stuck in the past, just like the church.

If you really were forward thinking, you would help your cause by "getting with it" fellow forumer.

You mentioned my childhood.
Since you are so interested, my mother told her children that we should make up our own minds what we wanted to do.

We obviously respected her for this and made our own way, as most people in the UK now fortunately do.
My children will have the same upbringing as me, they will be able to be free thinkers without meddlers trying to tell them that they are full of guilt :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

........Lets see what happens when your suffering wife get her permanant UK status.
5 years is a small price to pay.

Why do you think my wife suffers? :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:
We are perfectly happy and still very much in love.
We both don't want to go to church.
Do you know us, have you met us?

You are as deluded as your religious beliefs :laugher:

[aposhark]

Sadly, :bigcry: what Mark (gWaPito) says is sooooooo TRUE, Mike! ALL these poor, unfortunate people HAVE to cling to IS their faith ... FAITH that SOMEwhere, someHOW and someday - when the perpetual struggle of their "miserable" Earthly existence is over - there is a better life awaiting them. Otherwise, what's the point of their having been born in the first place! :ARsurrender:

Or can I assume YOU completely disparage the very notion of a 'hereafter' ... life after death ... or indeed ANY concept of reincarnation? :rolleyes:

Their ""miserable" Earthly existence" isn't exactly helped when the Filipino catholic church bans condoms, Arthur :Brick:
Surely you can see that these sort of ideas only cause more suffering?

[Arthur Little]

I'M already sixty-five years old. And the older I get ... the more conscious I become of my OWN mortality. When I was growing-up, there were many folk I knew, who were dead before they'd the chance of reaching the age I am now. Being an obviously well-read and intelligent man, Mike ... you're very likely aware that at the time the State Pension was first introduced in 1908, the Liberal Government of the day - under Prime Minister Henry Herbert Asquith - set the retiral age for men at 65, knowing full-well that very few would still be alive to CLAIM their pension. :rolleyes: Bear in mind, that was just over 100 years ago!

You're not so terribly far behind ME age-wise; :NoNo: also, you know as well as I do that the older one becomes - the quicker time [seems] to pass. Aren't YOU afraid of what lies ahead for the human soul after a person dies? (apart from the funeral, obviously!) I certainly AM; I'd hate to think it was NOTHING :cwm24: ... for the rest of eternity!

[Arthur Little]

Their ""miserable" Earthly existence" isn't exactly helped when the Filipino catholic church bans condoms, Arthur :Brick:
Surely you can see that these sort of ideas only cause more suffering?

Oh yes ... :iagree: with you one hundred percent, THERE ... as I do with certain other aspects pertaining to the failings of the Catholic Church - notably the belief that the practice of 'Confession' :icon_sorry: absolves adherents' guilt and sins. Fortunately, the Presbyterian Church of Scotland adopts a much more open-minded stance on such issues ... nowadays, at least. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[gWaPito]

This can go on and on. You are what you are, I am what I am. You are happy with your life, I am happy with mine.
I do feel sorrow and pity you aposhark and yes, you will say, 'I dont want or need your pity, this is how I feel, It's never too late, I'm sure a time will come when you will have nothing else but God to turn to.

God bless you and your family

[keithAngel]

Isn't it strange...that the "Goal Amount" to support the Forum is 30 GBP, and this month 55 GBP has been received :doh
The Church's loss is the Forum's gain :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Whats stranger is funny looks not withstanding I havnt been able to put 50p in and get a quid out:Erm:

[aposhark]

I'M already sixty-five years old. And the older I get ... the more conscious I become of my OWN mortality. When I was growing-up, there were many folk I knew, who were dead before they'd the chance of reaching the age I am now. Being an obviously well-read and intelligent man, Mike ... you're very likely aware that at the time the State Pension was first introduced in 1908, the Liberal Government of the day - under Prime Minister Henry Herbert Asquith - set the retiral age for men at 65, knowing full-well that very few would still be alive to CLAIM their pension. :rolleyes: Bear in mind, that was just over 100 years ago!

You're not so terribly far behind ME age-wise; :NoNo: also, you know as well as I do that the older one becomes - the quicker time [seems] to pass. Aren't YOU afraid of what lies ahead for the human soul after a person dies? (apart from the funeral, obviously!) I certainly AM; I'd hate to think it was NOTHING :cwm24: ... for the rest of eternity!

Hi Arthur,

I am not really sure what retirement has got to do with the issue at hand, so I will move onto your second paragraph.

IMO mortality is not worth worrying about, we are all born and we all die, no-one gets to understand anything different as no-one has come back from the dead with conclusive details.
It's what we do during the journey in life that matters.
I believe that this life is what we should concentrate on, because there is nothing later.
I never worry about what happens when we die, because we should always do our best in the time we have.
If we feel we have done all we can in this life, faults and all, why worry about anything else.

So, I am personally not afraid of anything that lies ahead because everything lies here and now and for me, there is nothing ahead.
This life is "your heaven or your hell" not promises by people through time without any proof that "heaven" or "hell" is what we are to expect or even aspire to.
We should not expect everything as there is nothing when we die from my atheist understanding.

Religion bothers me greatly because of the lies and the control that has always tried to be exerted over people.
I could go on, but I feel that I have made my point and it is one that you will probably not accept from your religious standpoint.

[keithAngel]

Just read it all nice one guys ive been away for two weeks so sorry not to have joined in.

I think fear is a big part in the idea of "salvation" a kind of divine lifeboat.

My version is to explore my fear not project it outwards its an internal process but since your all parts of me (I have proof unfortunatly if you dont realise this is true you wont understand it yet) Its all the same but if I dont get it I can replay it as much as I like:Erm:

I also think religeon and spirituality are in no way the same thing one is a set of belief systems that require no effort the other the fruits of a personal journey that is transformative.

I was reading Mike that some learned Docs think humans are happier when they construct ego friendly delusions :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

This can go on and on. You are what you are, I am what I am. You are happy with your life, I am happy with mine.
I do feel sorrow and pity you aposhark and yes, you will say, 'I dont want or need your pity, this is how I feel, It's never too late, I'm sure a time will come when you will have nothing else but God to turn to.

God bless you and your family

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

You are sooooo funny :laugher::laugher:

[mickcant]

I'M already sixty-five years old. And the older I get ... the more conscious I become of my OWN mortality. When I was growing-up, there were many folk I knew, who were dead before they'd the chance of reaching the age I am now. Being an obviously well-read and intelligent man, Mike ... you're very likely aware that at the time the State Pension was first introduced in 1908, the Liberal Government of the day - under Prime Minister Henry Herbert Asquith - set the retiral age for men at 65, knowing full-well that very few would still be alive to CLAIM their pension. :rolleyes: Bear in mind, that was just over 100 years ago!

Hello Arthur,:Wave:
As I am near to being 66 I can understand what you are saying about our mortality, I also cannot understand how quick the time goes since I retired, yet everyone seems to think I need more things to do to occupy myself!

Perhaps advancing age is what is making me even more intrested in doing more on my family tree/

Perhaps it is as well we do not know what is coming in our lives,but I would still like to think I could yet be happy with a partner insted of being on my own!
Mick.:olddude:

[aposhark]

Have you been having conversations with Nigel, Keith ? :icon_lol:

[keithAngel]

ooops

[keithAngel]

Nigel still beleives in location how wierd is that:icon_lol:

[aposhark]

Nigel still beleives in location how wierd is that:icon_lol:

Is he buying a house? :)

[keithAngel]

I think his one got run over:cwm24:

[aposhark]

His karma ran over his dogma :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[keithAngel]

somone elses kar-ma i think:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[gWaPito]

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

You are sooooo funny :laugher::laugher:

I hope you are laughing in 5 years time when your wife has her full UK passport:xxgrinning--00xx3:

I got a feeling you will be on hear crying your eyes out.
Rock on:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[aposhark]

I hope you are laughing in 5 years time when your wife has her full UK passport:xxgrinning--00xx3:

I got a feeling you will be on hear crying your eyes out.
Rock on:xxgrinning--00xx3:

on "hear" :laugher::laugher::laugher:
You are getting funnier :icon_lol:

[keithAngel]

I hope you are laughing in 5 years time when your wife has her full UK passport:xxgrinning--00xx3:

I got a feeling you will be on hear crying your eyes out.
Rock on:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Gwapito having come from my mini rant to here I apologise in advance as my sig says but although Mike isnt reacting I find your comment offensive and uncalled for to suggest a members wife (who you dont know) is only biding her time to depart because of your own belief systems and personal fantasies is only telling us about your own insecurities projected outwards which i gently drew to your attention in a previous post regarding retirement to the Phils rock on:icon_lol:

[gWaPito]

Gwapito having come from my mini rant to here I apologise in advance as my sig says but although Mike isnt reacting I find your comment offensive and uncalled for to suggest a members wife (who you dont know) is only biding her time to depart because of your own belief systems and personal fantasies is only telling us about your own insecurities projected outwards which i gently drew to your attention in a previous post regarding retirement to the Phils rock on:icon_lol:

Excuse me, who the hell are you? I was talking to apo. Butt out:D

[gWaPito]

Excuse me, who the hell are you? I was talking to apo. Butt out:D

'KeithAngel' huh...I wonder if apo has brought you to task over that name...in his world Angel's don't exsist:Erm:

[gWaPito]

on "hear" :laugher::laugher::laugher:
You are getting funnier :icon_lol:

This is what I mean, apo.
What is so funny about a type error:Erm:

So, it is OK for you apo, to call God a dog but, according to your brother in arm Angel Kieth is it not OK for implying what I said about 5 years later.

I will heed the advice of our new forumer Steve:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[keithAngel]

Excuse me, who the hell are you? I was talking to apo. Butt out:D

:erotic4:Just turning the other cheek :icon_lol:

[aposhark]

Excuse me, who the hell are you? I was talking to apo. Butt out:D

I thought this was FilipinoUK :icon_lol:

[Notavirusalso]

cool will rush out tomorrow and buy a new handbag so i can join in on this one
( I left out punctuation so mabey some other member may get a little pleasure from filling it in and amuseing them selfs )
Play nicely