Annulment Advice

[BrummieBoy]

Hi all,

I really need your advice before I make my next decision.

As you may or may not know from my previous posts I have met a wonderful woman named Alou, who is married and has two children who attend a private school. We were planning to get an annulment, get married in the Philippines and then bring her and her children to live with me in the UK.

From what I have been told, her husband only sees his children roughly twice a year in small, fleeting visits, although he does pay for their private education. He lives, and has children from, another woman he left Alou for.

Alou asked her husband for an annulment about 3 weeks ago and he has refused on the grounds that the school her children go to is a Roman Catholic school and they would not accept pupils from divorced parents.

Me and Alou discussed this and we decided that she would seek a good lawyer who would advise her on whether she would be able to get an annulment without her husbands blessing.

Alou told me yesterday that she has been speaking to a lawyer who has advised her that she can go ahead without her husbands permission, but the lawyer has quoted 300,000 pesos and said it may cost more than that overall. When I asked Alou why she has been quoted such a high figure (the lawyer does not know about me, and just thinks Alou wants an annulment so the price has not increased because of a "westerner" being involved) Alou said that it is because she does not want her or her children to appear in court and the extra cost is to prevent her attending court.

At no stage has Alou asked me for money, not before, during or after my visit to see her a month ago, and she would not even let me pay for her taxi's to and from my hotel. She has said that she will use her savings and childrens emergency fund to pay for the annulment, I totally trust Alou and I do not think that this is a scheme to got money from me.

I have advised Alou to speak to another couple of lawyers first to get a second and third opinion and see if she can get this annulment done for less.

My questions are these...

1). Can she really pay extra not to appear in court or is this lawyer just trying to get extra money?
2). If this is possible, is the amount she is being qouted realistic?
3). Is it worth Alou getting an annulment at all? I know without asking that she would not come to the UK unless her children could come with her. If Alou did get an annulment and we got married, would we have major problems trying to get visa's for her children?

I do not mind paying the 300,000 pesos (gulp!) if I knew it would allow me and Alou to have the future together we both want, but I just want to make sure that we are doing the right thing first and that her lawyer is not conning Alou, as I cannot afford to do this twice!

Yours comments and help would be most appreciated :)

Dave.

[laurel]

Hi brummie, well first of all I fully understand the predicament you find yourself in...i,e not a million miles from my own.
My gf and Ihave just finished her annulment and shes waiting for papers from the NSO................its a pain in the butt mate , but from what you post I can see and recognise that it means so much to you and the bottom line is yes its worth it but you do need patience!!!
Q1, I have never heard of someone not having to attend the court proceding, however that does not mean it doesnt happen, my gf had to attend on 3 occasions.

Q2 If that was the case then yes id say that quote is realistic

Q3 Regarding visas for her children , as long as you are married and they are classed as dependants then you just have to meet the required criteria....

I hope that has helped and im sure there are others here who will be able to offer more advice.

[KeithD]

Alou asked her husband for an annulment about 3 weeks ago and he has refused on the grounds that the school her children go to is a Roman Catholic school and they would not accept pupils from divorced parents.
Tell Alou that if he doesn't agree she'll tell the school that he's living with another woman, speak to his local priest, and his parents priest, the other womans kids school, and any number of ways to embarrass him. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[BrummieBoy]

Thank you both for your replies.

Laurel - thanks for your help and support and I hope you and your gf get your papers from the NSO sooner rather than later :)

Boss - I will suggest this to Alou, but she is really protective about her children and if she thinks doing what you suggest will affect her childrens schooling then she probably will just keep quiet and let her husband carry on getting away with things.

But once again, thanks both and I will tell Alou both of your answers!

[sars_notd_virus]

Alou asked her husband for an annulment about 3 weeks ago and he has refused on the grounds that the school her children go to is a Roman Catholic school and they would not accept pupils from divorced parents.

This is quite a very weak excuse from an ex:doh...
It would be safe for Alou to get a written agreement with the ex that he will have no objection with any of the annulment procedures to avoid future problems while the case is on going.

[sars_notd_virus]

Hi all,

I really need your advice before I make my next decision.

this is a good read hope it guides you a little...
http://www.filipinawives.com/soannulment.htm




My questions are these...

1). Can she really pay extra not to appear in court or is this lawyer just trying to get extra money?.

Yes some lawyers do a NON APPEARANCE procedure but i will recommend that the Petitioner attends the pre-trials and some court hearings so she knows where her monies really going and that is really being done appropriately.


2). If this is possible, is the amount she is being qouted realistic??.

300,000 and more is quite a big amount for annulment ..when i left the philippines (may 2010)the current on going pay with the solicitors is only up to 200,000..most lawyers charge the same or nearly the same amount they usually give a quotation to clients have an agreement sign both parties (the client and the lawyer )before they start the case ...lawyers cannot guarantee a quick result but u need to hound 'em all the time to remind them that u are paying them and so they need to do their job.


3). If Alou did get an annulment and we got married, would we have major problems trying to get visa's for her children??.

Alou needs to prove SOLE RESPONSIBILITY for her children means that the ex has nothing to do with the decisions,schooling,shelter,etc of the children


I do not mind paying the 300,000 pesos (gulp!) if I knew it would allow me and Alou to have the future together we both want, but I just want to make sure that we are doing the right thing first and that her lawyer is not conning Alou, as I cannot afford to do this twice!??.

Getting an annulment can be a gamble...so u just have to make sure the odds are stacked in your favor :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Goodluck!!:)

[RickyR]

Remember that if he agrees to the annulment then you WONT be granted it, they don't allow collusion. The ideal situation is for the Husband to not agree, but also to not file protest. The law is against you when having an annulment and if she married in a Roman Catholic church, then the situation becomes a lot more complex.
It can be lengthy, and depending on the court can be a drawn out process. The idea of not attending to the court, well that will be very difficult if the procedure is followed correctly. If however a lawyer knows a willing judge, clerk and court who can may have additional brown envelope fees for fast processing then this could all be a different story.
I would agree, that she should consult multiple lawyers, and get a good idea of what she is about to do.

The situation isn't impossible, but she needs to know what she is getting into.

[-sillybilly-]

Tell Alou that if he doesn't agree she'll tell the school that he's living with another woman, speak to his local priest, and his parents priest, the other womans kids school, and any number of ways to embarrass him. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Good idea here win2win!

With regards to attending the hearings, i had my annulment in Nov 2009 and got the decision in Feb 2010 but i was given an option wether to attend or not. But ive chose not to attend the last hearing and paid a bit of extra then waited for the decision.

I think 300,000 is quite a lot. Alou might wonna ask and look for more where she could get a cheaper one. You need to find out how long its gonna be and from that 300,000 does it includes the NSO Marriage contract with annotations of null and void which is the last bit? So that Alou doesnt have to do it.

With her kids visas, yes she can apply for dependant visas but it will need the consent of their biological father specially hes supporting the kids too.

So what Alou needs, she have to ask the lawyer if it is possible to get the annulment and custody at the same time, well she has the grounds that her ex husband now lives with the other woman and that can be charged as adultery. So if you are willing to pay that 300,000 might aswell include the custody in the package deal because i honestly think that its too much for only an annulment.

Goodluck!:)

[fred]

X2

[fred]

With her kids visas, yes she can apply for dependant visas but it will need the consent of their biological father specially hes supporting the kids too. And there lies a major problem. If he`s concerned about an annulment effecting the kids schooling (which he pays for) then how much more difficult to get him to let them go live 7.000 miles away?

I think Alou`s only chance is to hire a private detective to produce real evidence to secretly prove without any doubt her husbands Concubinage. (which would lead to both guilty parties being sent to prison IF a complaint was filed) Not saying it would go that far but GOOD evidence could force his hand regarding the annulment. Hope you see where Im going with this!
Dave..Please read through this Philippine law site and ask her to do the same..
Fred.
A brief discussion on Infidelity, Concubinage, Adultery and Bigamy (http://jlp-law.com/blog/a-brief-discussion-on-infidelity-concubinage-adultery-and-bigamy/)

http://jlp-law.com/blog/a-brief-discussion-on-infidelity-concubinage-adultery-and-bigamy/

[jonnijon]

Adultery is not a good road to go down Are not both parties doing the same thing???

[BrummieBoy]

Thank you all for your advice, I feel like a have stepped inside a minefield and I do not know where to step next!

The annulment side of things, although expensive, will be the easiest (and I use that word very loosely) thing for us to deal with, as I love Alou dearly and although 300,000 pesos is a lot of money to me, I think the future happiness her annulment and our subsequent marriage would far outweigh the cost.

Like some of you have mentioned I think it is the custody and visa's for Alou's children that will be the real battle, which is why I asked question three in my original post.

When Alou mentioned to her husband that she wanted an annulment, Alou also mentioned that she may consider taking her children abroad in the future. At no point has she mentioned a boyfriend (me) to any of her friends and family as she only wants to announce us being a couple when she knows there are no more barriers to keep us apart.

I know it was a mistake Alou mentioning the possibility of moving abroad in the future, but she did that without consulting me and she probably just wanted to get everything out in the open so she knew where she stood. Needless to say her husbands parents were not happy about the possibility of losing their grandchildren and her husband also said in the meeting with Alou that he would not allow his children to move abroad,

I am very, very grateful for all the help, advice and links you all have provided and, I am inclined to follow either boss's advice and try to shame him and his family into agreement or go down the detective route as I do not think her husband will make anything easy for us, so we may need to "force" him into the annulment and custody of her children.

[BrummieBoy]

I will be speaking to Alou around 2am, so I will see if we can talk this through and give her the links you have all provided as the more she knows, the better the decision she (and we) can make.

Thanks again all, you have been most helpful :icon_sorry: :icon_sorry:

[RickyR]

Tread carefully, and use proper advice. Don't act before you know all the details, doing something hasty from either party could cause you a lot of problems. Adultery is a serious offence in the Philippines, particularly when involving a white man, and has resulted in jail terms on numerous occasions. This won't be easy, but it should all be possible.

[-sillybilly-]

Thank you all for your advice, I feel like a have stepped inside a minefield and I do not know where to step next!

The annulment side of things, although expensive, will be the easiest (and I use that word very loosely) thing for us to deal with, as I love Alou dearly and although 300,000 pesos is a lot of money to me, I think the future happiness her annulment and our subsequent marriage would far outweigh the cost.

Like some of you have mentioned I think it is the custody and visa's for Alou's children that will be the real battle, which is why I asked question three in my original post.

When Alou mentioned to her husband that she wanted an annulment, Alou also mentioned that she may consider taking her children abroad in the future. At no point has she mentioned a boyfriend (me) to any of her friends and family as she only wants to announce us being a couple when she knows there are no more barriers to keep us apart.

I know it was a mistake Alou mentioning the possibility of moving abroad in the future, but she did that without consulting me and she probably just wanted to get everything out in the open so she knew where she stood. Needless to say her husbands parents were not happy about the possibility of losing their grandchildren and her husband also said in the meeting with Alou that he would not allow his children to move abroad,

I am very, very grateful for all the help, advice and links you all have provided and, I am inclined to follow either boss's advice and try to shame him and his family into agreement or go down the detective route as I do not think her husband will make anything easy for us, so we may need to "force" him into the annulment and custody of her children.


On the annulment grounds if Alou can prove that her ex husband is now living with someone else then that be a good reason. Try to gather loads of information specially photos of them or some witnesses.
Or,She can speak to her ex that she will pay the annulment and what other does is, they pay the other party aswell just to agree with the grounds and annulment.
But if she cant it will be up to the lawyer on what kind of grounds she/he can press charges to get the annulment done. I am positive that lawyers can find the best way besides Alou and her ex have split up years ago. I dont think the Solicitor General will file a motion for reconsideration.

The only major problem she will have is getting a custody. Shes got 2 children and how old are they? Minor children are going automatically going to their mother's but if in the right age they will get involved and will have to appear in court and the Judges will ask them where do they wonna go.
Or..the Judges will decide.
The terrible part that Alou doesnt wonna think about is when one of her children will have to stay on the father's side and the other one for the mother.
Custody is going to be one of the terrible and torture part in her mind specially if she be battling her ex husband and inlaws! It will take time and more money involved.

[BrummieBoy]

[QUOTE=-sillybilly-;244987] The only major problem she will have is getting a custody. Shes got 2 children and how old are they? [/QOUTE]

Her two children are 9 and 11.

They have minimal contact with their father, although I do understand what you are say as when they find out about moving to a different country they may not want to go and could see their father as a way of staying in the Philippines. I do not think this will be the case as, if you see how close they are to their mother I cannot imagine either one of them wanting to be seperated from Alou.

And welcome back to the UK :)

[BrummieBoy]

Tread carefully, and use proper advice. Don't act before you know all the details, doing something hasty from either party could cause you a lot of problems. Adultery is a serious offence in the Philippines, particularly when involving a white man, and has resulted in jail terms on numerous occasions. This won't be easy, but it should all be possible.

OK Ricky, I will carry on with my discussions with Alou and hope she gets some good advice from the lawyers/solicitors.

[-sillybilly-]

[QUOTE=-sillybilly-;244987] The only major problem she will have is getting a custody. Shes got 2 children and how old are they? [/QOUTE]

Her two children are 9 and 11.

They have minimal contact with their father, although I do understand what you are say as when they find out about moving to a different country they may not want to go and could see their father as a way of staying in the Philippines. I do not think this will be the case as, if you see how close they are to their mother I cannot imagine either one of them wanting to be seperated from Alou.

And welcome back to the UK :)


Thank you! :)
Now they are 9 and 11 and you said they are very close to their mother. thats one point that Alou will no longer have to worry about. And i think im sure her children would love to live with her abroad.

Anyways, goodluck on alou's annulment case.

[sars_notd_virus]

I will be speaking to Alou around 2am, so I will see if we can talk this through and give her the links you have all provided as the more she knows, the better the decision she (and we) can make.

Thanks again all, you have been most helpful :icon_sorry: :icon_sorry:


It is always good to start in a clean sheet so my advice for Alou is to talk and have an arrangement(in black and white,meaning properly signed by both parties) with Alou's ex that he have the knowledge and no objection when the annulment case is filed...
why? because the annulment case can be overturned and makes it more complicated,..all lawyers/solicitors knows about this (lawyers can make the right wrong and wrong to right)as long as they can earn money from the client they will go on the case..
I'm sure the Ex already have the hint on why Alou's taking her kids abroad??? you cannot contest the ex about adultery because he can also find a lawyer to defend him and file a case against both of you,,,you never know if he also got a plan so its better to be safe than sorry.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23441094-british-man-facing-jail-over-his-adultery-with-a-filipino-woman-asks-why-wont-the-foreign-office-help-us.do

[fred]

you cannot contest the ex about adultery because he can also find a lawyer to defend him and file a case against both of you,,,you never know if he also got a plan so its better to be safe than sorry.

You are only guessing that the husband has an idea about the new relationship..
From what we have been told this is not the case..Anything else would be pure pure conjecture on your part..
No proof= no case!
From what I have read,Adultery is only applicable to a woman having the affair and is easier to prove for the offended party..
The case against him would be Concubinage(not adultery) which is for some reason harder to establish and why I advised Dave to hire a good private detective (And I mean GOOD) and seek advice from the legal site I linked him to just for starters. This is pivotal to the whole plan.
Many guys prefer to fall in love with women with no baggage and hassle attached and although I can understand why,I for one can respect Dave`s dedication to this lady even more as you cannot always choose who you fall in love with or when..Thats simply the nature of things and probably true love.
This will be a really tough and long journey for Dave and I for one respect his decision for even contemplating it..
Fair play to him and I wish him well!!
Keep us informed Dave.

[BrummieBoy]

It is always good to start in a clean sheet so my advice for Alou is to talk and have an arrangement(in black and white,meaning properly signed by both parties) with Alou's ex that he have the knowledge and no objection when the annulment case is filed...


Hello again Sars, Alou has already had a meeting with her husband and he refused the annulment and said that he would not allow his children to move abroad. Alou has been very, very careful not to let anyone know about our relationship, but, like you say, her husband will read between the lines and suspect there is another man involved, although he cannot prove anything.

I think he will not sign anything unless Alou finds someway to "force" him to do so.

If we cannot find anything to "push" her husband in the right direction, is the annulment still possible or are we just going to have counter-claim after counter-claim to drag this thing out?

[sars_notd_virus]

You are only guessing that the husband has an idea about the new relationship..


NO, I'm not guessing fred...I just understand what i am reading.

Do you think that the father of the children will simply accept the fact that his children be going abroad and Alou will be the sole provider and nobody helps her or supports her like a new partner??when at the Philippines the father is the one supporting his children with their education??





When Alou mentioned to her husband that she wanted an annulment, Alou also mentioned that she may consider taking her children abroad in the future.

I know it was a mistake Alou mentioning the possibility of moving abroad in the future, but she did that without consulting me and she probably just wanted to get everything out in the open so she knew where she stood. Needless to say her husbands parents were not happy about the possibility of losing their grandchildren and her husband also said in the meeting with Alou that he would not allow his children to move abroad

[BrummieBoy]

You are only guessing that the husband has an idea about the new relationship..
From what we have been told this is not the case..Anything else would be pure pure conjecture on your part..
No proof= no case!
From what I have read,Adultery is only applicable to a woman having the affair and is easier to prove for the offended party..
The case against him would be Concubinage(not adultery) which is for some reason harder to establish and why I advised Dave to hire a good private detective (And I mean GOOD) and seek advice from the legal site I linked him to just for starters. This is pivotal to the whole plan.
Many guys prefer to fall in love with women with no baggage and hassle attached and although I can understand why,I for one can respect Dave`s dedication to this lady even more as you cannot always choose who you fall in love with or when..Thats simply the nature of things and probably true love.
This will be a really tough and long journey for Dave and I for one respect his decision for even contemplating it..
Fair play to him and I wish him well!!
Keep us informed Dave.

Hi Fred, thanks again for you support. When I first started to get to know Alou she was very open and told me about the fact she was still married and has two children. When I asked her if we would have any problems getting an annulment and her husbands permission for the kids to come to the UK, she said that there would not be any problems. Apparently they had already discussed an annulment but both of them had decided, due to the cost involved, not to get one until it was needed. She also reasoned that because he only saw his children a couple of times a year that he would not object to them moving abroad.

Maybe both me and Alou were naive in believing that it would be that easy, and now we have found out the hard way that he is not willing to give us what we want.

LIke you say Fred, you do not choose who you fall in love with and I will do whatever it takes to bring Alou and her children to the UK, I just want to make sure I am doing the right things to ensure that happens.

We have even discussed that if all else fails I will go and live with her, although we both know that this is a last, last option as I would find it very hard to find employment in the Philippines.

All I can say is thanks again all for your support and suggestions and like Fred says, wish us luck!

[fred]

Do you think that the father of the children will simply accept the fact that his children be going abroad and Alou will be the sole provider and nobody helps her or supports her like a new partner??when at the Philippines the father is the one supporting his children with their education??IMO, that decision would depend on if his wife could provide evidence that could send him and his mistress to a Filipino prison.
It will then no longer be for him to wonder how Alou can manage to escape with her kids..
That said..Lets leave this type of advise to a reputable Filipino attorney.
Im sure Dave will update us regardless..

[sars_notd_virus]

Hello again Sars, Alou has already had a meeting with her husband and he refused the annulment and said that he would not allow his children to move abroad. Alou has been very, very careful not to let anyone know about our relationship, but, like you say, her husband will read between the lines and suspect there is another man involved, although he cannot prove anything.

I think he will not sign anything unless Alou finds someway to "force" him to do so.

If we cannot find anything to "push" her husband in the right direction, is the annulment still possible or are we just going to have counter-claim after counter-claim to drag this thing out?

If this is the case,i will suggest that Alou files the Annulment case straight away with the grounds of Pyschological Incapacity

http://www.scribd.com/doc/35170102/Case-for-Psychological-Incapacity

RULING:
Psychological incapacity must be characterized by (a) gravity, (b) juridical
antecedence, and (c) incurability. The incapacity must be grave or serious such that
the party would be incapable of carrying out the ordinary duties required in
marriage; it must be rooted in the history of the party antedating the marriage,
although the overt manifestations may emerge only after the marriage; and it must
be incurable or, even if it were otherwise, the cure would be beyond the means of
the party involved.

The use of the phrase “psychological incapacity” under Article 36 of the Code has
not been meant to comprehend all such possible cases of psychoses as, likewise
mentioned by some ecclesiastical authorities, extremely low intelligence,
immaturity and like circumstances. Article 36 of the Family Code cannot be
construed independently of but must stand in conjunction with existing precepts in
our law on marriage. Thus, correlated, psychological incapacity should refer to no
less than a mental (not physical) incapacity that causes a party to be truly
incognitive of the basic marital covenants that concomitantly must be assumed and
discharged by the parties to the marriage which, as so expressed by Article 68 of
the Family Code, include their mutual obligations to live together, observe love, respect and fidelity and render help and support. There is hardly any doubt that the
intendment of the law has been to confine the meaning of psychological incapacity
to the most serious cases of personality disorders clearly demonstrative of an utter
insensitivity or inability to give meaning and significance to the marriage. This
psychological condition must exist at the time the marriage is celebrated. The law
does not evidently envision, upon the other hand, an inability of the spouse to have
sexual relations with the other. This conclusion is implicit under Article 54 of the
Family Code, which considers children conceived prior to the judicial declaration of
nullity of the void marriage to be “legitimate.”
The well-considered opinions of psychiatrists, psychologists, and persons with expertise in psychological disciplines might be helpful or even desirable.


Wish you and Alou best of luck and hope u win the case:):xxgrinning--00xx3:

[BrummieBoy]

If this is the case,i will suggest that Alou files the Annulment case straight away with the grounds of Pyschological Incapacity
RULING:

Wish you and Alou best of luck and hope u win the case:):xxgrinning--00xx3:

Thanks again Sars :)

I knew from previous posts on annulment that Pyschological Incapacity would be Alou's only option for an annulment. I think I know of a very good reason she could use, but it may be very hard for Alou as it is a sensative subject.

Alou's father died three months before her wedding while helping some contractors who were fixing up the house Alou and her husband to be would be living in. Alou has told me that on most of her wedding pictures she was crying because she was still grieving for her father. But this is very personal to Alou and I do not want to bring back bad memories by suggesting that this could be a good reason to prove she was not in the right state of mind to get married.

It is a hard subject to talk about incase she feels like I am using her fathers death to my advantage.

Do you think it is worth mentioning to Alou, or shall I wait and hope that either she thinks of it herself, or her lawyer/solicitor come up with a different plan?

[sars_notd_virus]

Thanks again Sars :)

I knew from previous posts on annulment that Pyschological Incapacity would be Alou's only option for an annulment. I think I know of a very good reason she could use, but it may be very hard for Alou as it is a sensative subject.

Alou's father died three months before her wedding while helping some contractors who were fixing up the house Alou and her husband to be would be living in. Alou has told me that on most of her wedding pictures she was crying because she was still grieving for her father. But this is very personal to Alou and I do not want to bring back bad memories by suggesting that this could be a good reason to prove she was not in the right state of mind to get married.

It is a hard subject to talk about incase she feels like I am using her fathers death to my advantage.

Do you think it is worth mentioning to Alou, or shall I wait and hope that either she thinks of it herself, or her lawyer/solicitor come up with a different plan?

Your welcome Dave:)
Just give Alou the moral,emotional.financial support she needs while the case is on going
and dont forget to update us here

[BrummieBoy]

I have just had an update from Alou after she had seen her lawyer yesterday.

She has been offered two options.

1). Normal annulment and custody of her children - she has been told that this will take 18 months and will cost her 275,000 pesos.
2). Declaring that her husband is dead and therefore becoming a widow - she has been told this will take 2 months and cost her 70,000 pesos.

Obviously she wants to take the far shorter and cheaper option and she says that her lawyer has told her that this is simple to do and Alou will not have any problems.

My burning question to you all is "if this is a faster and cheaper way, why do most people go for an annulment"?

In my mind I would have thought that the Fili officials must need some sort of official proof that her husband is dead, surely they would not just take Alou's and her lawyers word for it would they?

I have also asked what if we get married and we move to the UK, what would happen if her husband complained afterwards, I assume the marriage would be null and void.

I have posed these questions to her but she keeps replying that her lawyer says it will be ok.

I do not think her lawyer is trying to con Alou as she is a friend of Alou's sister but there must be a catch here somewhere....

As usual your help and advice would be gratefully received :)

[baby38]

To be honest no2 dont sound right to me,he still alive he see the kids twice a year,mind you anything possible in the Phills,if someone can get a new identity at a cost,even if they married to someone else who knows.I have a American friend who lived in the Phills with his g/f for 3 years he been trying to get annulment has not even got to court yet he was quoted 100,000 peso its up to 300,000 so far, I bet if he knew about option 2 he would had gone for it,his g/f was considering changing to Muslim at cost of $5000 USA, properly another rip off , am certain option 2 dont sound right but who knows.

[ghee101]

prices vary from places, of course. but 300,000 is too much. it only goes up when there are so many procedures like my sister's filipina friend in netherlands. she spend almost 500,000 for her annulment here before she married her dutch bf.

it's much cheaper in the provinces. i was married in Quezon City so it's kinda pricey. mine is only 180,000, my lawyer is my mom's friend. it's hard for me coz i'm doing it alone. my ex husband offered to help last december and i'm still waiting for his promise (btw, we get along as friends now).

he said he'd come up with his share either by late this year or early next year.

i am a weekend mom, we share holidays and i get the summer vacations. as for the kid, he's mature for her age. it helps a lot explaining if both sides are cooperating. i want to prepare a good future for her. my ex and i agreed that she can choose to go to me when she's at the right age.

hmmmm option 2 :Erm::Erm::Erm: why didn't i think of this before :Erm::Erm::Erm: i'll ask my lawyer if i can use this. and tell my ex to play dead :Cuckoo::Cuckoo:

[ghee101]

Tell Alou that if he doesn't agree she'll tell the school that he's living with another woman, speak to his local priest, and his parents priest, the other womans kids school, and any number of ways to embarrass him. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

this is soooooooooo true. don't let him hold your future while he's having a party with his.

[ghee101]

This is quite a very weak excuse from an ex:doh...
It would be safe for Alou to get a written agreement with the ex that he will have no objection with any of the annulment procedures to avoid future problems while the case is on going.

and schools only ask for marriage certificate of parents only once. only on the registration. they wont look at it every school year:NoNo:. what's written there wont change anyway. annulment is another set of paper.:Erm::Erm:

[ghee101]

Remember that if he agrees to the annulment then you WONT be granted it, they don't allow collusion. The ideal situation is for the Husband to not agree, but also to not file protest. The law is against you when having an annulment and if she married in a Roman Catholic church, then the situation becomes a lot more complex.
It can be lengthy, and depending on the court can be a drawn out process. The idea of not attending to the court, well that will be very difficult if the procedure is followed correctly. If however a lawyer knows a willing judge, clerk and court who can may have additional brown envelope fees for fast processing then this could all be a different story.
I would agree, that she should consult multiple lawyers, and get a good idea of what she is about to do.

The situation isn't impossible, but she needs to know what she is getting into.

yes. in my case...i allowed my ex and my lawyer to ruin me. it's ok. that won't appear on the NSO papers anyway.

[ghee101]

Hello again Sars, Alou has already had a meeting with her husband and he refused the annulment and said that he would not allow his children to move abroad. Alou has been very, very careful not to let anyone know about our relationship, but, like you say, her husband will read between the lines and suspect there is another man involved, although he cannot prove anything.

I think he will not sign anything unless Alou finds someway to "force" him to do so.

If we cannot find anything to "push" her husband in the right direction, is the annulment still possible or are we just going to have counter-claim after counter-claim to drag this thing out?

annulment doesnt need the consent of the other party. if he's got another family, use that for grounds. fred is right, get proof and hold it against him.

[BrummieBoy]

Thanks for all your comments.

Ghee, if you are serious about mentioning the "option 2" to your lawyer let me know what they say as it would be interesting to get an second opinion.

[sars_notd_virus]

I have just had an update from Alou after she had seen her lawyer yesterday.

She has been offered two options.

1). Normal annulment and custody of her children - she has been told that this will take 18 months and will cost her 275,000 pesos.
2). Declaring that her husband is dead and therefore becoming a widow - she has been told this will take 2 months and cost her 70,000 pesos.


Hello again Dave

Sorry but i find the quote above strange!
Usually in every transaction u get a quick result and pay a high amount. but the quotation that the lawyer gave is a complete opposite.
I hope Alou can get a 2nd opinion from another lawyer as she can get the normal annulment and custody of children with the same amount 275,000 in a quick span of time.


Goodluck again

[sars_notd_virus]

In my mind I would have thought that the Fili officials must need some sort of official proof that her husband is dead, surely they would not just take Alou's and her lawyers word for it would they?

I have also asked what if we get married and we move to the UK, what would happen if her husband complained afterwards, I assume the marriage would be null and void.



Assuming that the judge approved and annulment is done with the 2nd option,,...where can Alou get an authenticated death cert of husband?
*Alou will be needing this d.cert before she marry again
*Death cert shld also be attached in her annulment papers when she applied for spouse visa.

[Terpe]

Brummieboy
I think there are many more people on this forum who are much more knowledgeable
about annulment than me.
However in my opinion you would be ill-advised to pursue option 2 (presumptive death)
Just how much evidence is needed is a questionable issue anyway.
The fact is that if you followed this option you must accept that the reappearance of the absent/missing/presumed dead spouse would immediately cause an automatic termination of the second marriage.

It seems possible to me that this 'hold' on your new marriage and future life together would doubtless be of almost daily concern.
The potential for 'blackmail' by the presumed dead spouse exists. I'm not saying it will happen in your case, but it exits as a potential threat.
Please think very very carefully.

[Ladybug_sim]

Brummieboy
I think there are many more people on this forum who are much more knowledgeable
about annulment than me.
However in my opinion you would be ill-advised to pursue option 2 (presumptive death)
Just how much evidence is needed is a questionable issue anyway.
The fact is that if you followed this option you must accept that the reappearance of the absent/missing/presumed dead spouse would immediately cause an automatic termination of the second marriage.

It seems possible to me that this 'hold' on your new marriage and future life together would doubtless be of almost daily concern.
The potential for 'blackmail' by the presumed dead spouse exists. I'm not saying it will happen in your case, but it exits as a potential threat.
Please think very very carefully.

Just add some of my opinion here and terpe is a bit right and like the opinion of Mr. Fred. It is better to look for a clean papers that can make you peace of mind when you live together.

For Alou, i can say that she need more evidence if her husband have another family like for example the birth certificate of their child if there's any from her husband's mistress. It is one that my friend hand for filing the case against her husband too if she can get it from the NSO much better. Annulment is a long process and things it is not really easy just try to be calm while you proceed on it and get some more information too. We have one client filing her annulment as i am working to the law office, first she paid it 20,000 for the papers to file the court then it is another amount when the case going on depend if they show to the court. We cant really figure out the amount on it coz it is depend on how the lawyer work. If you figure out how much is it means that they earn much then. Just do it for step by step so it less for the expense... good luck to both on you and the annulment case.. hope all be sorted soon :Wave:

[ghee101]

they are usually "under the table" so it's about 4 months to say --a year. depending on the area.

but the normal procedure is a minimum of 2 years.

[BrummieBoy]

Thank you all once again for your help and advice :icon_sorry:

I must admit I thought this option 2 was too good to be true or else everyone would be doing it!

I will stress to Alou that she must speak to at least two other lawyers on a proper annulment before she goes ahead, and try and steer her away from option 2.

I am afraid that although your advice on shaming/pushing her husband into agreement is very good advice, Alou will not contemplate it because she is not that sort of person and does not want any potential problems between Alou and her husband affecting her children. It is frustrating because the husband is still controlling Alou's life even though he left her for another woman but Alou will not "rock the boat".

I will pass on all of your comments to her and see what happens next....

[ghee101]

and it is not a one time payment. to be sure you're getting the real deal, your lawyer will give you a breakdown of each step.

for every step, you can come with the lawyer or check every result and pay only after every step. the first is usually the psychological testing. my ex took that testing. yes, there should be proof that there's no collusion.

money talks. if you completed what's needed and got the money to finish everything, it's only matter of short time to get the annulment. the details on this webpage is quite realistic for all pinays getting annulment:

http://www.asawa.org/soannulment.htm

[LuisaKC]

Hello.
1st 300K is too much. 200k is a normal fee now for annulment 6-8 months. LEGAL . I talked to alot of annulment lawyers. 200K is too much already actually.
cause 100k is lawyers fee...
Psyc doc will cost . 30-50k
then the rest (filing docs , appearances etc ) are cheap.
( when u go to your psych doctor pls dont bring flashy jewelries,cars or anything else...look poor or he will ask for more)

2nd the husband SHOULDNT AGREE AT ALL TO ANY OF THIS. best he doesnt know you would file for annulment. HE having his own family now would be good for her case.
or SOG would say there was a connivance and can still reject the judges ruling.

3rd I am in the same position ( Kids in catholic school and all) The school doesnt have to know. And if they are already enrolled anyway there'll be no problem. Butstill, best is Talk to the school admin AFTER THE annulment ruling .

4th I feel for her not wanting to leave her kids and go to you... BUT her position is not impossible... specially if she has someone like you willing to pay for everything.

Good luck!

[rani]

Hello again Dave

Sorry but i find the quote above strange!
Usually in every transaction u get a quick result and pay a high amount. but the quotation that the lawyer gave is a complete opposite.
I hope Alou can get a 2nd opinion from another lawyer as she can get the normal annulment and custody of children with the same amount 275,000 in a quick span of time.


Goodluck again

mine was 250k... waited one year for the result :xxgrinning--00xx3:
i appeared only once in court :)
have i ripped off???? that was 5 years ago :doh

[sars_notd_virus]

mine was 250k... waited one year for the result :xxgrinning--00xx3:
i appeared only once in court :)
have i ripped off???? that was 5 years ago :doh

dont worry about it now sis rani,..its done and u got a good result,i think thats all that matters now?:):xxgrinning--00xx3:

[sars_notd_virus]

Every legal case has its complications,thats why we hire solicitors/lawyer to do the job for us..it can be a gamble, so,.. u just have to make sure the odds are stacked in your favor.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[rani]

dont worry about it now sis rani,..its done and u got a good result,i think thats all that matters now?:):xxgrinning--00xx3:

indeed!!!! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

Also be aware that the British Embassy are not totally stupid and will check all documents relating to annulments with a fine tooth comb.

They will deport anyone found to have received a visa using fraudulent documents (eg death cert' of husband who is found to be still alive).

It's all this 'under the counter' stuff that makes it so hard for more straightforward applications.