Overpopulation in Manila.Channel 4 tonight (15-10-01)

[mickcant]

Hi all,:Wave:
“Unreported World” on British TV tonight (15-10-01) on channel 4 at 19.30 is on overpopulation in Manila.
Mick:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Terpe]

Hi all,:Wave:
“Unreported World” on British TV tonight (15-10-01) on channel 4 at 19.30 is on overpopulation in Manila.
Mick:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Thanks Mick, think I'll catch that one (or record).:xxgrinning--00xx3:
I think it will be a real eye-opener.

[KeithD]

Too many babies.... not enough resources on the planet..... The higher the population grows the more babies die each year.

Only around 5% of fertalized eggs reach the age of 16.

[sars_notd_virus]

Hopeless case:doh

[Doc Alan]

It will be interesting to know what (if anything) the politicians have to say. Will they defy the Catholic vote and promote contraception ? Or find resources for more maternity services ...and then primary schools ?

[Terpe]

It will be interesting to know what (if anything) the politicians have to say. Will they defy the Catholic vote and promote contraception ? Or find resources for more maternity services ...and then primary schools ?

The President is trying to move on that right now. But..... the church leaders are vehemently opposed, even to the extent of threatening civil unrest and potential excommunication of the President and his supporters of the issue.

Have no idea how the two sides can find any common ground.:NoNo:

[joebloggs]

:xxgrinning--00xx3: mick
can be more upsetting than the program on tv last night about teenage girls forced into prostitution in cambodia, many sold by their families :cwm24::cwm23:

[mickcant]

:xxgrinning--00xx3: mick
can be more upsetting than the program on tv last night about teenage girls forced into prostitution in cambodia, many sold by their families :cwm24::cwm23:
Missed that, I will try to watch it online, makes me realise how lucky we are in the UK, even if we are broke!
Mick.:)

[Arthur Little]

... makes me realise how lucky we are in the UK, even if we are broke!
Mick.:)

:iagree:, Mick ... and I'll also be watching this programme on Channel 4 tonight. :68711_thanx: for drawing our attention to it! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Lancashirelad]

Thanks for the heads up, I will be watching also.

[forester]

Just finished watching the channel 4 programme with a heavy heart.
I has read about poverty in Manila, but the documentary spared no blows.
The school ckildren going to school in shifts was incredible.
No politicians were sticking their heads above the parapet, the architect who planned to build up to solve the problems of squalor should look to the UK where the same policy was tried in the 1960's and failed.
Basic infrastructure needs to be tackled first, and dare I say it, the catholic church.

[stevewool]

what have we to moan about after watching that, and going to school at that hour too, they want so much but have so little, yes simon seems the church needs to come into this century too

[Rosie1958]

What a shame, I have only just found this thread and the program has now finished. :NoNo: Hopefully it will be repeated at a later date.

[joebloggs]

What a shame, I have only just found this thread and the program has now finished. :NoNo: Hopefully it will be repeated at a later date.

it should be on here in a day or so ( i hope) :rolleyes:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/unreported-world/4od

[Rosie1958]

Thanks Joe, I'll keep checking to see if it is screened :)

[joebloggs]

Thanks Joe, I'll keep checking to see if it is screened :)

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/unreported-world/episode-guide/series-2010/episode-13
hopefully by tomoz :rolleyes:

[grahamw48]

You could almost smell the Pasig river.

Won't say any more, as I wouldn't want to upset the Catholic members. :rolleyes:

[Arthur Little]

:omg: ... the "living" conditions - if they could be called such - were/ are so unbelievably awful that many families actually preferred sharing their "accommodation" with the dead! Truly an eyeopener! :cwm24:

[Steve.r]

:omg: ... the "living" conditions - if they could be called such - were/ are so unbelievably awful that many families actually preferred sharing their "accommodation" with the dead! Truly an eyeopener! :cwm24:

Is it not the same the world over Arthur. But even though these people were living in such poor conditions, did you hear any of them complaining? I wish the less fortunate spongers in our country acted with the same dignity.

[fred]

Checked the R.P population figures the other day..Very nearly 100 million. The catholic church have had their way and will continue to do so..Large poor populations are what keep them in business.
we had a catholic leader on the TV just the other day opposing new family planning and education measures by the Government.. He said that it was advantageous for the R.P to have a large population which is the reason why the Philippines has fared so well during this latest world depression. He was speaking of the huge mass of OFW`s that are keeping the countries economy afloat..The thing is a large proportion of the massa believe him.

[mikey73]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TWVthO_lCI

[rani]

reading the thread, was intrigued on the issue shown at the uk tv.... happy to see the video posted by mikey but i can't download it.. it says, "this video contains content from channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."'.... what does it mean??? how can i watch this video??? thanks!

[Terpe]

Thanks Mick for the info on this, I did record the prog and watched late last night.
Eye popping stuff! :yikes:
I was really surprised at the maternity ward. Four mothers to a bed.:doh
The nurses looked so professional, caring and calm amidst the apparent chaos.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[mikey73]

might only be available for people in the uk afraid rani , it worked when i try it. it goes to the youtube page and runs.

[keithAngel]

you will need a proxy server so they think your in the uk:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

Is it not the same the world over Arthur. But even though these people were living in such poor conditions, did you hear any of them complaining? I wish the less fortunate spongers in our country acted with the same dignity.

well i suppose when you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose :Erm:
as for complaining who do they complain to and do they listen ?, maybe those in charge don't and never will care :cwm24:

i just love some of the quotes Imelda Marcos was supposed to have said :D

Filipinos want beauty. I have to look beautiful so that the poor Filipinos will have a star to look at from their slums.

I get so tired listening to one million dollars here, one million dollars there, it's so petty.

If you know how much you've got, you probably haven't got much.

If you know how rich you are, you are not rich. But me, I am not aware of the extent of my wealth. That's how rich we are.

It's the rich you can terrorize. The poor have nothing to lose.


Never dress down for the poor. They won't respect you for it. They want their First Lady to look like a million dollars.

People say I'm extravagant because I want to be surrounded by beauty. But tell me, who wants to be surrounded by garbage?

We practically own everything in the Philippines.

When they see me holding fish, they can see that I am comfortable with kings as well as with paupers.

"This is the reason why I have decided to run -- so that I can manage the Marcos wealth properly for the direct benefit of the people."


My husband does not like me to give interviews because I say too much. No talk, no trouble. :doh

[mikey73]

Thanks Mick for the info on this, I did record the prog and watched late last night.
Eye popping stuff! :yikes:
I was really surprised at the maternity ward. Four mothers to a bed.:doh
The nurses looked so professional, caring and calm amidst the apparent chaos.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

yeah itsan eye opener about the maternity ward, quite unbelievable. i knew about the different class (shifts) at school as my mahal works as i teacher and she has to work different shifts. sometimes goin to school at 5am for the first class. she was shocked when i told her the primary school i went to had 25 students intotal (primary 1 to primary 7) she has around 60 students in her class. cant see many teachers coping with that numbers of students to teach.

[rani]

you will need a proxy server so they think your in the uk:xxgrinning--00xx3:

what do u mean keith?

[johncar54]

what do u mean keith?


With almost all on-line iplayers, etc. It is impossible to view from outside UK.

Sometimes you may be able to get a proxi server/ID which will fool the prog into believing you are in UK,

If anyone knows how that can be done on a regular basis, and not just hit and miss, please let us know,

John in Spain !!!!

PS Just watched Click on line , that is an exception to the rule..

[mickcant]

I cant get the video from mikey73 to work either and I am in the UK
It says “Embedding disabled by request watch on
YouTube
But the link just produces two clicking sounds?
Mick.:Erm:

[Terpe]

With almost all on-line iplayers, etc. It is impossible to view from outside UK.

Sometimes you may be able to get a proxi server/ID which will fool the prog into believing you are in UK,

If anyone knows how that can be done on a regular basis, and not just hit and miss, please let us know,

John in Spain !!!!

PS Just watched Click on line , that is an exception to the rule..

John, I know how to do this with fully encrypted and secure service, but I not sure if I am allowed to put the website on this forum.
I watched BBC iPlayer last May in RP via this service. (UK elections -- How sad is that?)
It's not a free service, but also not expensive (about 70 Euros per year)

Perhaps one of the moderators can advise me if I am allowed to provide website??

[Terpe]

John, I know how to do this with fully encrypted and secure service, but I not sure if I am allowed to put the website on this forum.
I watched BBC iPlayer last May in RP via this service. (UK elections -- How sad is that?)
It's not a free service, but also not expensive (about 70 Euros per year)

Perhaps one of the moderators can advise me if I am allowed to provide website??

John, forgot to mention, you can choose the country of the server at any time from a drop down menu. Also no need to worry about download limits as you only need to use the server at the very start, just to access.

[joebloggs]

is it .identitycloaker :Erm:
you can try it for 10 days for less than £5.

[johncar54]

John, forgot to mention, you can choose the country of the server at any time from a drop down menu. Also no need to worry about download limits as you only need to use the server at the very start, just to access.

You appear from your profile to be in UK.

If you know we can access progs from UK when we live abroad, can you please be more specific how it can be done. I think a lot of us, who have been trying for a long time, would like to know.

[Terpe]

is it .identitycloaker :Erm:
you can try it for 10 days for less than £5.

Yes joebloggs, it is.:D
Just I'm very unclear on the legal issues these days. Thats why I hesitated.

It worked perfectly for me.

[johncar54]

is it .identitycloaker :Erm:
you can try it for 10 days for less than £5.

But do you know it always works from anywhere in the world? Anyone who is doing so please give us the full info.

Thanks

[joebloggs]

But do you know it always works from anywhere in the world? Anyone who is doing so please give us the full info.

Thanks

http://www.torproject.org/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFBG-5FOSKA

[stevewool]

anyway back to the program, as steve r says did you hear any complaints, i am 1 of 13 kids and in those days there seemed to be lots off big families, we all got by did not have much but watching the program was just like watching us years ago, i know nothing like that but not far off,today i could not do that and i dont think its right bringing kids into a place that you know you cant afford to keep them, yes thats my opinion and each to there own , good luck to them all and god bless them too

[Terpe]

John, just google.
The software I use works from anywhere in the world. I have used in in RP, Japan,
SPAIN, France and USA.

[Terpe]

... and i dont think its right bringing kids into a place that you know you cant afford to keep them, yes thats my opinion and each to there own , good luck to them all and god bless them too

I agree, and I suspect the people in the programme also agree. In fact one young mother said she hoped she would not get pregnant again during the 4-6 month wait for her steralisation.
Sad to say the obvious (to those in the west) solutions to this do not follow an easy path in Phils (and many other countries).

[stevewool]

the easy answer for anyone to say here , is dont have any more kids , but as we know its not as easy as that,i am just so glad that my emma is here with me

[joebloggs]

the easy answer for anyone to say here , is dont have any more kids , but as we know its not as easy as that,

Contraceptive implants last for 3yrs



i am just so glad that my emma is here with me

:xxgrinning--00xx3: and thats all that matters :rolleyes:

[stevewool]

yes we all would like to save the world make our partners family happy too, but hey ho they are :icon_lol:, i took emma off there hands:icon_lol::icon_lol:, but its true, thats all that matters:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Rosie1958]

I had the same problem as Mick but then tried again and just managed to watch it.

As an outsider, the answers to many of the problems suffered are so clear and family planning/ contraception is a key player but I do understand the constraints that the catholic church impose. Clearly church reform is needed in this area, putting the welfare of people first rather than trying to selfishly boost the church's coffers ...........

[mickcant]

I had the same problem as Mick but then tried again and just managed to watch it.

I must have had a “senior moment” :crazy:
I got it to work by allowing pop ups, only to find it was the same programme :omg:
Mick.:)

[laurel]

[QUOTE=stevewool;251888, good luck to them all and god bless them too[/QUOTE]

totally agree Steve.

[mickcant]

Agree also I just could not imagine living in those dreadful conditions, I don’t think I would ever sleep
Mick.:NoNo:

[jimeve]

I cant get the video from mikey73 to work either and I am in the UK
It says “Embedding disabled by request watch on
YouTube
But the link just produces two clicking sounds?
Mick.:Erm:

Mick, just watched it on you tube with micky73 link. just click on the "watch on you tube"

[johncar54]

I mentioned to my wife that in China its one child per couple but that means girl babies get aborted or allowed to die when born, as only boys are looked upon as insurance for old age.

My wife said in RP its girls who are more appreciated as they are more likely to help feed and support the family whilst males are out gambling, drinking and fornicating !!!

My wife was involved as a health worker in Rizal (15 miles from Manila). She and her colleagues were trying to educate people about health issues and family planning. They used to hand out free condoms in the hope it might help. The problem though is the Church. The priests threaten hell for those who use contraception, so what chance do poorly educated people have ?

The thing I find difficult to understand (I was brought up as a Catholic) is that to practice the rhythm method (better regarded as Russian Roulette) is allowed, but that is birth control, so how does that in reality differ from using a condom? It's not like abortion (which I am against) which takes the life of a child. Contraception, as the name implies, prevents conception.

Mystified.

[RickyR]

I've not seen this program, our internet is too slow here at work. But, I have been into the poorest areas of Manila and have seen first hand the way people live. People living alongside the dead in a cemetary, where literally a whole shanty town has been built on stilts above it, with nothing but garbage below, and the same in Smokey Mountain. I met a lady who'd had 12 children, only 4 had survived, and her baby had just died the day before. She seemed to take it in her stride with no emotion. I would love for everyone to see this, to realise how people live.

[stevewool]

when i was out there with seeing emma for the first time , yes what you read and see on tv does help a little, we all live the way we want and some have the futune to move on and better themselves others just cant ,but the kindness that is shown there to others is beyong me, we was eating out in china town and we did not finish what we was eating, rather then leave it emma asked to take it out , the once out emma gave it to a very young child,this happened on many occasions, that made me realize just how kind some people are , me i would give a few pesos here and there , but emma says thats wrong better to give food and give it to the children too, just so sad sometimes what we see but to those it is a everyday thing

[Arthur Little]

Is it not the same the world over Arthur. But even though these people were living in such poor conditions, did you hear any of them complaining? I wish the less fortunate spongers in our country acted with the same dignity.

Yes, it IS, unfortunately, Steve ... and you're right :rolleyes: - these people maintained a level of stoicism that the spongers in our own country could never comprehend in a million years :nono-1-1: - even so, no human being should be forced to live in such degrading and disease-ridden conditions as we witnessed there!

[Steve.r]

even so, no human being should be forced to live in such degrading and disease-ridden conditions as we witnessed there!

So right Arthur. But who really is to blame here?? Unfortunately, the answer is not a popular one, it is the Catholic Church. Several people here have already said it, they actively oppose birth control so that the poor stay poor, and supposedly the only hope is within the walls of the church who's coffers get bigger and bigger. The government is powerless to oppose the church and the cycle continues.

It is so annoying that the church has not looked any further than the steps of their doors and seen the poverty it inflicts on so many. :cwm23: They can pray and pay!!!

[somebody]

:xxgrinning--00xx3: mick
can be more upsetting than the program on tv last night about teenage girls forced into prostitution in cambodia, many sold by their families :cwm24::cwm23:

Didnt see either of the two programes but sadly from one of the Wifes friends who works for a charity when not studying for dentistry she told us that sadly whole extended familys of females find themsleves as web cam girls, bar girls and prositutes in phill:NoNo:

Although slightly different both shocking situations :NoNo:


PS TOR is a good at making you intracable but its not without its issues so make sure you understand what it does and doesn't do..

Also be careful of paying to far in advance/to much for proxy services as sometimes people have found some services become at least temporarily useless when the proxy is identified and blocked

[joebloggs]

Didnt see either of the two programes

if you've got an hour andy, its a :censored: world out there :cwm24:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/bigscreen/tv/episode/b00vcwdd/

[junior02]

manila over population has got worse in the slums of manila, since mayor lim has cleaned up roxas blvd and other places in manila from the street vendors, to bring in more tourists from other countries, were are all those poor people ment to go and more importantly how are they going to make a living to support ther familys. the rp goverment dont care about the poor in rp, and they never will,the goverment is corupt and always will be, as they are greedy and are living in ther mansions.

[dontpushme]

Won't say any more, as I wouldn't want to upset the Catholic members. :rolleyes:

I'm Catholic and I'm all for contraception. I know that's unpopular among Catholics, but I'd rather have people using contraception than have them killing babies or bringing them up in a world of suffering and poverty.


Is it not the same the world over Arthur. But even though these people were living in such poor conditions, did you hear any of them complaining? I wish the less fortunate spongers in our country acted with the same dignity.

That's something I'd blame your welfare system for. It's the same here in the US. Way too many people sit around on their lazy asses. In the Philippines, if you don't work, you don't eat. Simple as that. And the sense of community makes people happy. When my bf visited Manila last December, he looked so depressed looking out the car's window and seeing whole families living out of 3'x6' pushcarts. I told him to look again and try to identify the unhappy ones. He couldn't find a single one of those people who didn't look happy. Being a part of a larger community where everyone cares for everyone else helps. It's something I learned while working as a catechist in the slums in Manila.


He said that it was advantageous for the R.P to have a large population which is the reason why the Philippines has fared so well during this latest world depression. He was speaking of the huge mass of OFW`s that are keeping the countries economy afloat..The thing is a large proportion of the massa believe him.

Whether the masa (masses) believe him or not, they've always had the attitude of "every child is another pair of hands to help with the work," not "every child is another mouth to feed." Many of the domestic helpers we had while I was growing up came from big families and when I asked them why they had such large families, the answers were usually because they had more hands that way or because they were so poor that the parents didn't have anything fun to do other than have sex.


she was shocked when i told her the primary school i went to had 25 students intotal (primary 1 to primary 7) she has around 60 students in her class. cant see many teachers coping with that numbers of students to teach.

I went to a private school with shifts. There were always so many children there, but the reason there were shifts was that the owners were greedy and just wanted more money. It was a stupid system and I have no idea why my parents put me in that place. But I can't imagine a school with just 25 students in seven year levels. How in blue blazes do the kids have anyone to do homework with or to play school yard games with?


i dont think its right bringing kids into a place that you know you cant afford to keep them, yes thats my opinion and each to there own, good luck to them all and god bless them too

I'm sure a lot of the people in the RP with big families would rather have fewer kids, but even if they did accept contraceptives as a good alternative, how would you expect them to be able to afford condoms when they probably can't even buy food? And good luck to whomever tries to make them stop having sex. It's practically the last free bit of fun they have anyway.


Sad to say the obvious (to those in the west) solutions to this do not follow an easy path in Phils (and many other countries).

We don't have a lot of the free stuff the rest of the world has. Free healthcare? Pfft! Welfare checks? Forget about it! Those things are not gonna happen in the Philippines.


the easy answer for anyone to say here , is dont have any more kids , but as we know its not as easy as that,i am just so glad that my emma is here with me

Again, who's gonna pay for that? Did you know a lot of prostitutes in the Philippines wash and reuse condoms? Things that are free or cheap in the Western world are pretty expensive if you consider the amount that people earn in the Philippines and similar countries.


My wife was involved as a health worker in Rizal (15 miles from Manila). She and her colleagues were trying to educate people about health issues and family planning. They used to hand out free condoms in the hope it might help. The problem though is the Church. The priests threaten hell for those who use contraception, so what chance do poorly educated people have ?

The thing I find difficult to understand (I was brought up as a Catholic) is that to practice the rhythm method (better regarded as Russian Roulette) is allowed, but that is birth control, so how does that in reality differ from using a condom? It's not like abortion (which I am against) which takes the life of a child. Contraception, as the name implies, prevents conception.

Mystified.


The sad thing is, part of the reason these people are happy is their faith. If that gets someone through a life of hardships, would you really wanna take it away? Then again, that one topic (contraception) has to be discussed and people need to be enlightened. The Philippines looks more and more like a sinking ship with that birth rate.


People living alongside the dead in a cemetary, where literally a whole shanty town has been built on stilts above it, with nothing but garbage below, and the same in Smokey Mountain. I met a lady who'd had 12 children, only 4 had survived, and her baby had just died the day before. She seemed to take it in her stride with no emotion. I would love for everyone to see this, to realise how people live.

It's horrible how she could just shrug that off, and I still haven't been able to accept it (read your post a few times now). But after eight of her children have died, I can understand how she's numb to it.

I didn't think the shanties in the cemeteries were a big issue until I read this topic and daw it from the eyes of an outsider. Maybe Filipinos just need a push to see things the way they should be seen. We might be a little too used to hardships to see them as such anymore.


we was eating out in china town and we did not finish what we was eating, rather then leave it emma asked to take it out , the once out emma gave it to a very young child,this happened on many occasions, that made me realize just how kind some people are , me i would give a few pesos here and there , but emma says thats wrong better to give food and give it to the children too, just so sad sometimes what we see but to those it is a everyday thing

Giving to the poor is something we're all used to in the RP. When Burger King first opened on Katipunan Ave., they offered free drink refills. I think they stopped doing that because of all the people refilling their drinks and giving the full cups to the children selling sampaguita garlands outside.

Also, Emma's right. Give food, not money. When I lived in Makati, my walk from the office to the house took me past the Mandarin Oriental Hotel. That intersection had a triangle of shrubs where grown men hid while the children they were with begged or sold flowers (same intersection where vice girls/gays stood around looking for prospects). These men usually took the children's earnings. I never gave those children money and some of them refused the food because they wanted the money (I've had food thrown at me a few times in different parts of Manila). But when they did appreciate the food, you could see so much gratitude in their eyes.


manila over population has got worse in the slums of manila, since mayor lim has cleaned up roxas blvd and other places in manila from the street vendors, to bring in more tourists from other countries, were are all those poor people ment to go and more importantly how are they going to make a living to support ther familys. the rp goverment dont care about the poor in rp, and they never will,the goverment is corupt and always will be, as they are greedy and are living in ther mansions.

Agreed. I'm wondering how long the slum in front of my high school will last. :( I hope they leave it alone. Those people were really nice to me when I went there to buy sodas (which had been banned from the cafeteria) or wood for my woodworking class.

Honestly, I like slums. This is not because the people are poor or the place is dirty, but because some of the wisest and kindest people I know live/lived in slums. I grew up in Bel-Air (Makati), a gated community where our neighbors included diplomats and politicians, but I've always had an affinity to the people in the slums.

[junior02]

Agreed. I'm wondering how long the slum in front of my high school will last. :( I hope they leave it alone. Those people were really nice to me when I went there to buy sodas (which had been banned from the cafeteria) or wood for my woodworking class.

Honestly, I like slums. This is not because the people are poor or the place is dirty, but because some of the wisest and kindest people I know live/lived in slums. I grew up in Bel-Air (Makati), a gated community where our neighbors included diplomats and politicians, but I've always had an affinity to the people in the slums.......................................................................

thats good to hear that you dont look down on people in the slums, but most pinoys from rich pinoy family do and certaintly a lot from bel-air. the people that have to live in slums are wise people as they have learned the hard way, and as you say some are the most kindest people, thats because they have learned to help each other in hard times and not like some of the rich pinoys that dont need each others help, they just go to the bank and get more peso to help themselfs out..