West cannot defeat al-Qaeda, says UK forces chief

[aposhark]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11751888

I think the head of the UK's armed forces knows more than a few people here.

[keithAngel]

a winning point Apo silence is golden:xxgrinning--00xx3:

or perhaps everyone else is ignoring you now:icon_lol:

[aposhark]

a winning point Apo silence is golden:xxgrinning--00xx3:

or perhaps everyone else is ignoring you now:icon_lol:

I hope so, but they can't really argue about the source of this story :)
If they do, they'll be peeling spuds for 3 days :laugher:

[bornatbirth]

I hope so, but they can't really argue about the source of this story :)
If they do, they'll be peeling spuds for 3 days :laugher:

:Erm: yep you win :doh

[joebloggs]

so whats the answer aposhark ?

Britain has lost 343 soldiers in Afghanistan since 2001.
they are all some ones sons or brothers :NoNo:

you think talking will solve it ?

You can lead a horse to water, but, a pencil must be lead. -Stan Laurel

[sars_notd_virus]

West cannot defeat al-Qaeda, says UK forces chief

Of course they got ''Hidden Agenda'':Erm:

[aposhark]

so whats the answer aposhark ?

Britain has lost 343 soldiers in Afghanistan since 2001.
they are all some ones sons or brothers :NoNo:

you think talking will solve it ?

You can lead a horse to water, but, a pencil must be lead. -Stan Laurel

Bring our troops home.
A terrible loss of life on all sides and for no real gain :doh
Many Afghani civilians killed too; they are all someone's family members also, Joe.

What a shambles 4458

Get the Arab league / Afghani's / Pakistani's / G20 to talk at length with the U.N. and involve all parties and stop the killing :bigcry:
Wars are very expensive, the G20 know about this.

Off the top of my head, the main issues:

1. Palestinians/Jews
2. Afghanistan
3. Iraq

Negotiate, yes Joe, for as long as it takes until there is a settlement.

What the hell do all these governments/diplomats do?


Let us never negotiate out of fear, but let us never fear to negotiate.
~ John F. Kennedy

[Englishman2010]

They'll keep up the fight as long as the CIA/Other secret agencies want to syphon off the cream from the opium crop for other under the radar activities, and keep employment levels high in US arms/munitions companies :rolleyes:

[subseastu]

They'll keep up the fight as long as the CIA/Other secret agencies want to syphon off the cream from the opium crop for other under the radar activities, and keep employment levels high in US arms/munitions companies :rolleyes:

Sounds like another vietnam to me

[Englishman2010]

Sounds like another vietnam to me

It is, but politically (in the US) it's better for the US to stay there, and my guess is they will be there for at least another 5 years, maybe 10, and during that time they won't have achieved anything other than keeping hundreds of thousands of US defence manufacturing workers in jobs. There must be a bigger picture here? the war isn't just about stopping Taliban training camps training up Jihadists to go to the US and detonate bombs. There are training camps all over the lawless states of East Africa and the Horn of Africa, but the US haven't declared war on Somalia, Eritrea, The Sudan, Ethiopia, Tanzania or Kenya yet?

[aposhark]

Sounds like another vietnam to me

"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"

[Englishman2010]

"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"



The problem is that NATO forces usually comply with the accepted rules of engagement, whereas the enemy doesnt. If NATO wants to win the war it needs to use tactics that aren't accepted, and of course as soon as it does everyone condemns them. There is a plus side to America getting bogged down in Afghanistan, which is whilst they are stuck there, they can't realistically contemplate attacking Iran. I somehow doubt that war would be limited to just conventional weapons:NoNo:

[Dedworth]

The problem is that NATO forces usually comply with the accepted rules of engagement, whereas the enemy doesnt. If NATO wants to win the war it needs to use tactics that aren't accepted, and of course as soon as it does everyone condemns them. There is a plus side to America getting bogged down in Afghanistan, which is whilst they are stuck there, they can't realistically contemplate attacking Iran. I somehow doubt that war would be limited to just conventional weapons:NoNo:

The gloves should be off in Afghanistan, no liberal rules of engagement we need a shoot to kill policy. Its the only language the Taliban understand. IED's are the biggest threat to the Allied forces, any locals who come up positive after being swabbed for explosives shouldn't be set free as often seems to be the case but summarily tried.

[Englishman2010]

The gloves should be off in Afghanistan, no liberal rules of engagement we need a shoot to kill policy. Its the only language the Taliban understand. IED's are the biggest threat to the Allied forces, any locals who come up positive after being swabbed for explosives shouldn't be set free as often seems to be the case but summarily tried.

I can't imagine the Soviet Army complied with the rules of engagement to the same extent that the Allied Forces have, and they ended up pulling out because they knew they would never win. Nuking the mountainous parts/Pakistan borders where the Taliban are hiding out would be the quickest and most effective way to deal with them, but that would cause worldwide outrage and store up more resentment for future generations of Jihadists ( with 2 heads and six legs) . The thing is, we do have Nukes but probably wouldn't use them, wheras the Taliban would love to have them and if they did would have no hesitation in using a Nuke in a crowded western city.

[Dedworth]

I can't imagine the Soviet Army complied with the rules of engagement to the same extent that the Allied Forces have, and they ended up pulling out because they knew they would never win. Nuking the mountainous parts/Pakistan borders where the Taliban are hiding out would be the quickest and most effective way to deal with them, but that would cause worldwide outrage and store up more resentment for future generations of Jihadists ( with 2 heads and six legs) . The thing is, we do have Nukes but probably wouldn't use them, wheras the Taliban would love to have them and if they did would have no hesitation in using a Nuke in a crowded western city.

I think there are quite a few differences that make comparison tricky

Soviets invaded & occupied the whole country 30 years ago

Allied weaponry now more sophisticated eg Predator, Smart Bombs etc

Soviets didn't have the satellite capability now available

Mujahideen did have relatively smart CIA supplied stinger missiles which hurt Soviet Heli and air support

If I'm not mistaken parts of Afghanistan are almost peaceful with little or no Taliban activity

The "democratic" Govt although not popular doesn't have the whole populace galvanised against it

My solution is a full on military approach, shoot to kill,gloves off, hands no longer behind the back. Introduction of detention camps and fortified villages. Defoliation of the poppy fields local growers/farmers paid a realistic wage as compensation, nothing for the dross further along the supply chain as they are all either Taliban, Corrupt Officials or Criminals - they sink. This should allow some sort of stability to return allowing introduction of a hearts and mind policy. Similar worked in Malaya in the 1950's.

[beppe]

Money talks, money walks. The Afghanistan war is important to USA economy, around 2 million servicemen, contractors dealing with Pentagon should employ 4 to 5 million people.

USA has interest in the south Caucasus republics rich of oil, for they want build a pipeline from north to south Afghanistan. Bush and Cheney have ties and interests with oil companies.

The same applies to Iraq war, oil is the main reason.

[aposhark]

Let's hope the people of the USA lose interest in the wars as they did with Vietnam.

It just takes so many years to do this, and in the meantime many people get killed for ultimately no political gain, like Vietnam.

Talks should begin asap as, whether we like it or not, the Muslim faith is strong and without borders and continuing resentment will only cause more western civilian deaths by retaliatory actions.

If the UK forces chief says we cannot defeat al-Queda we should face up to reality.

[Terpe]

A stand can be made against an army
No stand can be made against an idea Victor Hugo