Careers at Sea - For your kids and grandchildren.

[RickyR]

Most members know by now that I work at sea and am pretty passionate about the ocean. Beside my missus and children, my passions in life are being at sea and flying (Private Pilots License). The being at sea and travelling I get paid for, the flying I afford when the bank manager and missus let me!

Most of us at sea probably come across like Uncle Alberts (I must be related to that guy), and have a lot of salty old sea stories to tell, that nobody really wants hear.

Anyway, one that I'm involved in is a Government Careers at Sea initiative. We are heavily trying to encourage young people to take a career at sea, and because the career is not often publicised I thought if anyone here have children or grandchildren who are reaching school leaving age and not sure where to go, to at least consider it.

The UK remains a maritime national, and whilst a lot of fleet is registered in British Overseas Terratories (Bahamas, Bermuda, Cayman Island, Gibraltar, Isle of Man etc), we still have a massive involvement in the licensing, classification, inspection, insuring and commercial operations of ships, mostly performed in London.

The UK is one of the few countries which is promoting seafaring as a career, and actively sponsors people to go to sea. Whether the students are 16 or 18 they can embark on a career at sea and be sponsored through all of the training, and obtain a HND or Degree in Nautical Science whilst receiving a salary at the same time! They can get then go onto get Masters Degrees in Marine Law, Naval Architecture or simply move into various management positions ashore if they decide not to pursue a career at sea after the intial 3 years.

If they do decide to stay at sea, they can expect a starting salary of around 30,000 a month which is complete tax free, and often working 6 weeks on / off or 3 months on / off.

The world has a shortage of Maritime Officers, both to work at sea, or to work in the management/insurance/operations offices in Shipping Companies. There is a major demand for a skilled workforce, and you can leave a job one day and find another job the next.

The tax advantage for seafarers is that if they spend 6 months out of the country a year (3 months for non seafarers), they are exempt from tax. This is something the government setup after the Falklands War to ensure that there is always a sufficient supply of qualified British Merchant Officers should the country need them in times of crisis!

Careers as Officers onboard ships can be as Deck Officers, Engineers or Electricians. You can obtain sponsorships with Cruise Lines, Offshore Ships, Superyachts, Container Ships, Oil Tankers, Military Supply Ships, Ferries etc.

If you know anyone who is of school leaving age, and interested in travelling for free, and obtaining a Degree that will allow open many doors for them, then this is a good career option. I don't know anyone who has completed a cadetship who has found themselves out of work. But i've seen friends go onto Captain cruiseships at 29 years old, be sponsored to retain as Marine Lawyers, become senior management in shipping companies or Owners Representatives of Super Yachts for Billionaires!

www.careersatsea.org.uk has all the information.

[joebloggs]

looks a great career ricky :xxgrinning--00xx3:, only if i was a lot younger :cwm24:

but if only i could send the misses and kids away for 6 months of the year :rolleyes:

[RickyR]

I'll arrange that for you Joe, could put then a Chinese Freighter for 6 months, they'll come back very skinny though!

[joebloggs]

:rolleyes: i'll tell the misses shes going to a health resort for a while :D

[Steve.r]

I am trying to find a job closer to Phils now, but at 44 it is difficult enough for me to even get a reply. A career at sea sounds great, but too old for that now I suppose.

What about openings for older people Ricky, with engineering backgrounds?

[Englishman2010]

Great advice Ricky, probably too late for me now as another 40 something yr old. I've always been a travellor but have had to pay for it myself. Combining a career with my favorite past time would have been a dream.

[RickyR]

Hi Steve, for certain Engineering qualifications/background, you can get exemptions from the exams and do about 6 months to get qualified. Working with a guy doing that at the moment. It would for instance give you a job on 6 weeks on/6weeks off offshore, and probably based Asia or Africa repatriating to the Philippines if you chose.
Although at 44, it's often the age that guys start turning towards the shore based/settling down stage after spending tooo much time looking at the deep blue!

[Sim11UK]

Blimey Ricky, that sounds a great career to get into.
I take it you meant £30,000 starting salary a year & not a month? :D :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[fred]

Thanks for the info Ricky...My old man was a merchant seaman for a good few years..He always wanted me to go in but sadly I didnt take his advice..I`ll see if I can push my youngest two in that direction..
Does it make much difference if they go in with only GCSE`s or is it advantageous to apply with A levels?

[RickyR]

In all honesty, for a career at sea it doesn't matter. But they will come out only with HND rather then a Degree at the end, but still have the same seagoing licenses. It would affect them if they decide to move ashore, but they can still actually upgrade to a Degree at a later date.

[grahamw48]

That was really interesting Ricky...thanks.

My dad served 30 years n the RN, so we do have a bit of history, but my son is 17 and currently doing A-levels at 6th form college.

He's very bright and good at maths and sciences, confident, independent and sociable, so who knows, maybe it's something that might be of interest to him, and probably something he hasn't considered.

I'll mention it to him. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[subseastu]

I'll put a slight downer on this thread as the future is not rosey for british cadets with the latest goverment / company policies that seem to in place at the moment. Companies are encouraged to employee cadets as this brings them various benifits from the goverment, it is after all an apprentice scheme. As a cadet I earned £6000-8000 pa for 4 yrs work and as far as I know these wages haven't really changed that greatly. I remember one agency offering me £95 / week but I had to pay for digs out of that of £65 / week!!! The sad truth is though that as these cadets come towards the end / finish their cadetships more often than not they are told that there are no jobs for them. Basically repeating what happened to seafarers in the 80's.

Couple this with the high volume of cheaper foriegn officers that are about now and there are very few opportunities for young newly qualified british officers.

I was lucky. I started in 1994 with the RFA and then moved onto Cable and Wireless. Both at the time large employers of british (and filipino for cable and wireless) seafarers, but even now this is under threat. Look at the ferries that transit between Uk and Ireland, they are crewed mostly by poles. From these I moved into the oil and gas industry where I now have to compete with cheaper nationals for jobs. At the start of my career I was in the last of the "good times" of the merchant navy. It is certainly not the romantic career that it once was which is a real pity. An example of this is the mearsk "E" class container ships. These are classed amoung the largest in the world, nearly 400m in length, they carry nearly 15,000 20ft containers yet only have a crew of 13!!! With a port turn around measured in hours not days!! It is entirely possible that as a watchkeeper on the bridge you would only see 4 or so different people in your entire 3 month trip!!

As I say I was very lucky in the companies that I worked for and this job does, if you get it right pay a stupidly large amount of money. I've managed stuff at an age that I thought wouldn't be possible. But for a number of people it turns into a lonely, islotating, sometimes depressing job. I personally wouldn't advise anyone I know looking for work to go to sea without giving it some long hard thoughts.

Sorry about that Ricky but its just my opinion on the state of the merchant navy and it opportunities (or lack of) for young people today.

[subseastu]

Something else I just thought of, out of the 12 or so blokes I went to college with that i kept in touch with only 2 of us are still at sea.

A word of warning about the taxation of seafarers as well. Just before this last election the labour goverment came after offshore marine officers for tax payments in a bid to increase revenue. Thankfully they saw sense after a petition and numerous letters pointing out that it would decimate an entire industry. A number of my work mates where looking into bankrupcy due to the 6 years of back dated tax they might have to have paid! Deep sea merchant officers and crew and sectors outside the oil and gas wheren't going to be affected by this. My point is if they've tried once they'll try it again. Would you work away from home for 6 to 9 months of the year and then pay tax for what essentailly boils down to a holiday in the uk to see your family?!

Again this is just my opinion, maybe I'm just a bit bitter and twisted:icon_lol:

[RickyR]

Hi Stu,
I agree partly with what your saying, but conditions have improved for cadets. And 3 years to be paid through a cadetship, to travel and to get a degree fully sponsored is something great, when most people come out with student debts. There is a lot of work still out there, and there is still a demand for British Seafarers, I know by the job adverts I get in my inbox, OK some of the salaries are relatively low by industry standards, but are much more then a graduates salary. I have never been out of work in 10 years, and have quit jobs without another to goto yet by the time i've stepped off the gangway, I've managed to step onto another.
But I do agree that staying at sea is far from ideal for everyone, however the way the system is setup, the majority of the guys who complete cadetships walk into shoreside jobs in port operations, shipping operations, insurance, surveying, and are really in demand.
The yacht I'm leaving at the moment is absolutely struggling to get an experienced commercially licensed officer to come in.

The tax situation; it was reviewed again this year, and the big problem the government has with the offshore sector is that the tax relief was never designed for that. The tax relief was designed to encourage British Merchant Navy Officers salaries to remain competative at sea, to ensure there was a supply should they even need a British Merchant Navy in times of war after the Falklands situation. Why should deep sea divers on circa 1000 GBP a day, be entitled to it???

[Tawi2]

Why should deep sea divers on circa 1000 GBP a day
I was actually going to mention this yesterday,my kid currently vacillates between wanting to be a dentist/doctor or a technical diver,I found a few decent Technical diving colleges in asia,one in Singapore,but one of my mates who was a technical diver till his early 30's said their career is very short,my old man was in the navy for 20 years.

[RickyR]

I believe its some kind of back problem you get from deep sea diving, but not completely sure on the technicalities.

[Tawi2]

I believe its some kind of back problem you get from deep sea diving
Might have to point him towards dentistry then,that doesnt sound so good :NoNo:

[aposhark]

Hi Steve, for certain Engineering qualifications/background, you can get exemptions from the exams and do about 6 months to get qualified. Working with a guy doing that at the moment. It would for instance give you a job on 6 weeks on/6weeks off offshore, and probably based Asia or Africa repatriating to the Philippines if you chose.
Although at 44, it's often the age that guys start turning towards the shore based/settling down stage after spending tooo much time looking at the deep blue!

Hi Ricky,
I did 20 years on and off the sea, last work was a shore rep, getting the ships in and out of port, crew changes etc.
It went quiet though, things change.
I still miss it but now I am married with a baby and get to see them every day.
The money always was good though......sometimes I wonder :cwm3:

[subseastu]

I was actually going to mention this yesterday,my kid currently vacillates between wanting to be a dentist/doctor or a technical diver,I found a few decent Technical diving colleges in asia,one in Singapore,but one of my mates who was a technical diver till his early 30's said their career is very short,my old man was in the navy for 20 years.

Tawi, Sat diving is very competative business and you have to really suck up to the dive superintendant to maintain a regular slot. The courses are also very expensive to qualify, I think it is somewhere around £10,000 to 15000!! I know of sat divers in their 40's still going in the bin and doing 28 days in sat. You do have to have a specail mentality for sat diving. You are kept in a chamber approx 1.7m diameter by about 5 meters with 2 other blokes for 28 days!! You have to be able to get on with everyone!!! But if you can pay for the course, find a regular slot then as ricky says you can earn vast amounts of money. Plus you can then go on to do the supervisors course and that means no more sat, you'd run the divers from topside on the ship. The big plus is apart from not being in sat the money goes up even higher. £1200-1500 / day.

[subseastu]

I believe its some kind of back problem you get from deep sea diving, but not completely sure on the technicalities.

Never heard of that one but sat diving is very physical (most divers need somewhere around 6000-8000 calories per day). Might be from the older divers and problems with the gas mix they used to use but I've not heard of any problems these days, it may just be from all the demanding, physical work they do.

[Pete/London]

Thanks for the info Ricky, very interesting post.My youngest boy it 19 and resitting some A levels at the moment but even in London he has had trouble getting a job.
It might be something he would be interested in.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[subseastu]

Hi Stu,
I agree partly with what your saying, but conditions have improved for cadets. And 3 years to be paid through a cadetship, to travel and to get a degree fully sponsored is something great, when most people come out with student debts.

I certainly hope conditions have inproved but I still feel that the wage given set against hours worked, conditions etc are still very poor. What is the average wage of a Uk cadet now? As for travel I think these days with modernisation most areas of the merchant navy there is very little scope for actual travel. You may well fly out somewhere to join and leave a ship but actually seeing these places rarely happens. Case in point, one of my mates worked for BP. in 4 months he got ashore for 6 hours!!!

There is a lot of work still out there, and there is still a demand for British Seafarers, I know by the job adverts I get in my inbox, OK some of the salaries are relatively low by industry standards, but are much more then a graduates salary. I have never been out of work in 10 years, and have quit jobs without another to goto yet by the time i've stepped off the gangway, I've managed to step onto another.

There is demand for senior british officers but juniors ranks struggle because companies think its ok to employ cheaper forgieners. Trouble with this is more often than not these lower ranks don't have the skills required to do the job safely and competently. You have obvioulsy been lucky with your jobs, I have as well (mainly due to the areas of the industry we work in I think)but there are plenty out there that do struggle to find a job that is worth while going for considering the pay and trip lengths

But I do agree that staying at sea is far from ideal for everyone, however the way the system is setup, the majority of the guys who complete cadetships walk into shoreside jobs in port operations, shipping operations, insurance, surveying, and are really in demand.

I've certainly never heard of this as most of those jobs require masters, chief engineer tickets. Trouble also with these jobs is the location. its alright if you already live in the area but its a massive cost to move house when you've only just qualified. the only shoreside jobs I 've heard of walking into is VSTC's

The yacht I'm leaving at the moment is absolutely struggling to get an experienced commercially licensed officer to come in.

Unfortunatly I think this is a problem the super yacht side of the industry has its catching up getting properly certificated officers. Things should get better though as more people realise it is a good job to get into. Especailly for young blokes I think.

The tax situation; it was reviewed again this year, and the big problem the government has with the offshore sector is that the tax relief was never designed for that. The tax relief was designed to encourage British Merchant Navy Officers salaries to remain competative at sea, to ensure there was a supply should they even need a British Merchant Navy in times of war after the Falklands situation. Why should deep sea divers on circa 1000 GBP a day, be entitled to it???

Completely agree with one though I think its down to the MCA giving out discharge books to any one who wants one!! I get all sorts coming up to me looking for a stamp in their books as proof to the tax man. Should be purely for seamen.

[Tawi2]

You are kept in a chamber approx 1.7m diameter by about 5 meters with 2 other blokes for 28 days!!
I think he would rather be in the chamber with 2 women for that duration,he is 14 and is already on his 6'th "serious"(according to him) relationship :rolleyes:
I have the cash for a course,but he is a typical kid,by the time he comes to Uni age he is most probably going to want to study something completely different :Erm:

[subseastu]

I think he would rather be in the chamber with 2 women for that duration,he is 14 and is already on his 6'th "serious"(according to him) relationship :rolleyes:
I have the cash for a course,but he is a typical kid,by the time he comes to Uni age he is most probably going to want to study something completely different :Erm:

Who wouldn't want to be in a chamber with 2 women!! Mind you it could get a bit tense when their time of the month came along:yikes:

Just reading back through this thread and I may come across a bit negative about my own chosen career. It is a good subject that ricky started, we are an island nation after all so going to sea should be a prime opportunty for a good number of young people. I've just tried to balance out alot of what ricky was saying with my own views on the industry. Maybe I thought what was written was a little rose tinted and wanted to put across some of the other more negative points of the job.

This job has treated me well and I was very lucky with the companies I've worked for but as with most jobs there are pros and cons. My advise to anyone who thinks they want to or know anyone thinking about going to sea is to think very hard about it and if at all possible try to get with one of the large multi national companies. But sometimes this doesn't work, for example Mearsk laid off 1500 officers last year!!

[fred]

Subseastu... Thanks for the perspective!! all taken into account..
Cheers,
Fred/

[subseastu]

This is in todays daily telegraph (spooky). The stories are a little extreme but highlight some of the problems faced by mosern seafarers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/8273847/Sea-no-evil-the-life-of-a-modern-sailor.html

[Tawi2]

If you are Filipino, on a Panamanian-flagged ship, travelling from South Africa to the Netherlands, what law is going to govern you? You are a total moving target.
Interesting read Stu.

[dontpushme]

LOL. I've always wanted to work on a cruise ship, but every website I went to that had openings made it look like I was overqualified and it would be pointless for me to apply. Now I'm 28 and getting too old for any of that. Oh well.:rolleyes: Maybe in my next lifetime.