British citizenship for daughter

[PeterUK]

Hi All,
My lovely filipina daughter was born in 2008. We currently all live in the Phils but I am thinking of applying for her British citizenship and obviously passport.

Her mother and myself are not married as she is still working on her annulment. I am obviously British by birth. Does anyone have any experience of registering in the Embassy there in Manila. Just downloaded the Forms MN1 from the UK Boarder Agency.

Any advice or experience from others would be appreciated.

[bruneicop]

Hi Peter, Good Luck,

I dont have specific info, I did it here in Brunei last year and was rather simple. (I believe in the Philippines its a little more complex) I assume you are named on the Birth certificate?
And the only other thing i know is that you will need a certified copy of your birth certificate. (why they need this i will never know as you have to submit your passport) crazy if you ask me, but thats what they need.

[JimOttley]

Hi All,
My lovely filipina daughter was born in 2008. We currently all live in the Phils but I am thinking of applying for her British citizenship and obviously passport.

Her mother and myself are not married as she is still working on her annulment. I am obviously British by birth. Does anyone have any experience of registering in the Embassy there in Manila. Just downloaded the Forms MN1 from the UK Boarder Agency.

Any advice or experience from others would be appreciated.

Your daughter is entitled to British Citizenship however the easiest way to do it and it will probably be demanded by the Embassy is to get a three way DNA test done that proves paternity.

I did this in December 2008 for my daughter Janna, similar circumstance to you, the Embassy was troublesome about it but granted us her passport within 1 month of our application. Sadly I had gone home and the embassy had trouble contacting me or my partner (our sims got replaced) so we waited 6 months before we actually found out.

The DNA test is not cheap and it has to be done at a recognised test lab, UP has one such lab I will look for the details and PM you.

[PeterUK]

Thanks for the info People yes I am named on the Birth Certificate. God knows where my one is though :doh oh well will have to order a new one from UK. Does this process have to be done in Manila? as on Monday they are applying for visit visas to the UK at the VFS Centre in Manila - Fingers crossed. Can we apply while in the UK while visiting but then again if they want all the DNA tests done it will probably be cheaper in the Phils.

Im obviously away working most of the time in the Middle East so will have to get that all sorted on my next visit to Phils. If you can find the details of the lab would be handy Jim. Thanks Guys :)

[JimOttley]

It was 850 quid in the Phils, the Embassy requires tests done to legal standard that means full ID of the persons being tested must be verified a the time of the test, I am not sure if you would be able to get it done on a visit to the UK but I doubt it.

Does your daughter have a Philippine passport? That was one of our first steps, first prove she is Filipino then use that to prove she is British via the DNA test. (edit: ah of course she has a passport as you are thinking of getting her test done in the UK :D)

Just realised you can't use the PM system yet the full lab address is :-

UP DNA LAB
Miranda Hall
University of the Philippines
Diliman
Quezon City
Metro Manila
1101

Telephone is +63 24341574

The department chief was Dr. Maria Corazon A. De Ungria
One email address was updnalab@gmail.com


The British Embassy still demanded all the other documents we had as well, which upset me at the time, none of them were relevant according to the published rules as we already had DNA evidence, the consular officer that interviewed me turned down our application in spite of all the evidence because Ana was not annulled in the Philippines in spite of having divorce papers from Korea. Again this was irrelevant, the change in the law on citizenship from July 2006 is a right of the child due to your British Nationality and your ability to show paternity, it doesn't matter if the mother is not annulled.

As I said they granted our application a month later.

Good luck.

P.S. Originally we were pointed at a few hospitals to get the test done but half of the suggestions no longer did tests and the rest could not do it in reasonable time, UP made an appointment for us within a couple of days. Make sure that wherever you go that it is a lab recognised by the British Embassy, you need to get the list of acceptable labs from them!

[PeterUK]

Thanks Jim was just searching on web may ask them in Uk - if we get the visit visas approved, as found the company that is recognised by the Border Agency there and they can do it in UK for 155 quid a person so might get it done there and submit results in the Embassy in Manila.


Turned down our application in spite of all the evidence because Ana was not annulled in the Philippines

I think I have heard of this before, I know the rules in July 2006 took that all away but they still seem to try and push that one. Well maybe take my daughter with me to interview because one look and you can tell she is from me :) Thanks for the contact info will use that one if it comes to it!! got to get is fixed as have 2nd arrival of new one coming in August:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[JimOttley]

Thanks Jim was just searching on web may ask them in Uk - if we get the visit visas approved, as found the company that is recognised by the Border Agency there and they can do it in UK for 155 quid a person so might get it done there and submit results in the Embassy in Manila.



I think I have heard of this before, I know the rules in July 2006 took that all away but they still seem to try and push that one. Well maybe take my daughter with me to interview because one look and you can tell she is from me :) Thanks for the contact info will use that one if it comes to it!! got to get is fixed as have 2nd arrival of new one coming in August:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Yes the embassy will try to put you through the grinder, maybe it's to see how committed you are, I just thought they were doing it out of spite to be honest.

My son was born before the rule change and that is just one more of our problems regards getting the whole family over here eventually, my partner has still not had her divorce recognised yet and we are still working on that, 6 years so far :(

My daughter was only 6 months when we made the application but same as you, obviously mine :)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2243/4514706736_e3a2908e6a_m.jpg

[PeterUK]

Thanks Jim cute daughter,

This is mine was lucky enough to win and is set for a modelling stint this year with Robinson's Centre Shopping Malls. All very proud of her as we all are with our kids. She already has the Filipina Ma Drama gene though :)

http://www.robinsonsdepartmentstore.com.ph/portals/0/promo_rds_sp_model_search.jpg

[PeterUK]

Admin sorry about the size of the photo didnt realise it would come out so big.:doh

Dont know how to delete and re adjust :Erm:

[Terpe]

Admin sorry about the size of the photo didnt realise it would come out so big.:doh

Dont know how to delete and re adjust :Erm:
Looks great to me.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[JimOttley]

Admin sorry about the size of the photo didnt realise it would come out so big.:doh

Dont know how to delete and re adjust :Erm:

Your account is restricted as you are still new to the site, you will be able to edit stuff later on. That's not a big picture :D

[rusty]

http://ukinthephilippines.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-the-philippines/how-register-birth-and-death/birth-registration

COMPULSORY DOCUMENTS
(Please present ORIGINAL documents and photocopies of each document)

ü Complete a Consular Birth Registration form (http://filipinaroses.com/AppData/Local/2009%20BR%20Requirements/PPT_BR%20form.doc)
ü Applicant’s birth certificate on NSO (National Statistics Office) Security paper
ü Parents’ birth certificates
British parent: submit full/long UK birth certificate or Birth Registration/Naturalisation certificate
Philippine born parent: submit NSO birth certificate
ü If applicable, parents’ marriage certificate – submit NSO marriage certificate if married in the Philippines and evidence of termination of any previous marriage (divorce decree nisi, annulment)
ü CRS Form no 5 - Advisory on Marriages (available from the NSO)
ü Submit CENOMAR (Certificate of No Marriage Record) for Philippine citizen parent if not married to the British parent of the applicant
ü If parents are not married, mother’s written consent
ü If applicable, father’s/mother’s death certificate
ü If applicable, birth certificates of all other brothers and sisters (applicant’s siblings)
ü Both parents’ passports from around the time of applicant’s birth and conception
ü If applicable, current or previous passports held by applicant
ü Home Office documents for Philippine nationals who have become British Nationals
ü Mother’s antenatal/postnatal/delivery notes, scans and ultrasounds from hospital (from hospital in the UK and in the Philippines), photos of mother pregnant. If unable to obtain original records, please submit copies, which have been attested by the hospital

The DNA test is not a compulsory requirement, if you read the requirements, it says:-

If you are unable to provide some of the documents mentioned below or if there are any doubts regarding the application, you may be required to attend an interview and/or require you to do a D.N.A. test to prove the relationship between parents and applicant (child). Please note that we may ask for further documents after your application has been taken in, please do not therefore book any flights until you know for sure that the birth registration will be issued.

The problem you may have is that the mother is still married :-

The majority of unsuccessful applications are refused due to the fact that one of the parents of the applicant is STILL married to someone else and has not declared this to us. Please note that we do carry out checks on marriages and this may delay the application.

[JimOttley]

http://ukinthephilippines.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-the-philippines/how-register-birth-and-death/birth-registration

COMPULSORY DOCUMENTS
(Please present ORIGINAL documents and photocopies of each document)

ü Complete a Consular Birth Registration form (http://filipinaroses.com/AppData/Local/2009%20BR%20Requirements/PPT_BR%20form.doc)
ü Applicant’s birth certificate on NSO (National Statistics Office) Security paper
ü Parents’ birth certificates
British parent: submit full/long UK birth certificate or Birth Registration/Naturalisation certificate
Philippine born parent: submit NSO birth certificate
ü If applicable, parents’ marriage certificate – submit NSO marriage certificate if married in the Philippines and evidence of termination of any previous marriage (divorce decree nisi, annulment)
ü CRS Form no 5 - Advisory on Marriages (available from the NSO)
ü Submit CENOMAR (Certificate of No Marriage Record) for Philippine citizen parent if not married to the British parent of the applicant
ü If parents are not married, mother’s written consent
ü If applicable, father’s/mother’s death certificate
ü If applicable, birth certificates of all other brothers and sisters (applicant’s siblings)
ü Both parents’ passports from around the time of applicant’s birth and conception
ü If applicable, current or previous passports held by applicant
ü Home Office documents for Philippine nationals who have become British Nationals
ü Mother’s antenatal/postnatal/delivery notes, scans and ultrasounds from hospital (from hospital in the UK and in the Philippines), photos of mother pregnant. If unable to obtain original records, please submit copies, which have been attested by the hospital

The DNA test is not a compulsory requirement, if you read the requirements, it says:-

If you are unable to provide some of the documents mentioned below or if there are any doubts regarding the application, you may be required to attend an interview and/or require you to do a D.N.A. test to prove the relationship between parents and applicant (child). Please note that we may ask for further documents after your application has been taken in, please do not therefore book any flights until you know for sure that the birth registration will be issued.

The problem you may have is that the mother is still married :-

The majority of unsuccessful applications are refused due to the fact that one of the parents of the applicant is STILL married to someone else and has not declared this to us. Please note that we do carry out checks on marriages and this may delay the application.



Correct it is not a compulsory requirement but you can either go through the meat grinder trying to convince them with all the other documents (all of which we had) or you can get a DNA test and cut to the chase.

When we phoned the British embassy in 2008 an explained our situation which was very similar to PeterUK's the embassy officers advice was exactly what I have offered here, all the other requirements are potentially hard to get and PeterUK's case fails the requirements because of lack of annulment.

The "If applicable, birth certificates of all other brothers and sisters (applicant’s siblings)" requirement was explained to me as an additional check to see if other siblings might indicate other non-annulled marriages, bigamy is apparently not uncommon in the Phils.

[PeterUK]

Thanks Guys for Info. So looking at the above documents as my GF is still married and obviously cant produce a CENOMAR does that mean they will refuse the citizenship to my daughter.

I was under the impression that from Jul 2006 they did not take this into account and as long as one of the parents was UK citizen otherwise than by descent it is automatically passed onto my daughter. We have been together for some 5 years now and didnt start the Annulment process until my gf came back from working overseas.

The rest of the docs I have and can even get the photos together when she was pregnant. Jim I take it because your Mrs divorce in Korea was not registered in the Phils you didnt provide a CENOMAR.

We started the annulment process over a year ago but got fleeced by a lawyer there that was recommended to us by one of her friends. After a year and paying him 75K in installments we found out that over that period he had done NOTHING my Mrs took it to the court in the Phils and he was ordered to return the money but as of yet and 4 months since the ruling not got a penny back. We have to go back to court and file another one now just so he gets a baliffs order. Oh well we all learn from our mistakes. Have a new decent lawyer now and starting the whole process from scratch.

[joebloggs]

no DNA is not complusary but they can insist on the test, it might be worthwhile getting the test done in the uk if you get your visit visa instead of paying £850 :omg:

yes, i presume the embassy would probably ask for a DNA test if your partner is still married to someone else

[JimOttley]

Thanks Guys for Info. So looking at the above documents as my GF is still married and obviously cant produce a CENOMAR does that mean they will refuse the citizenship to my daughter.

I was under the impression that from Jul 2006 they did not take this into account and as long as one of the parents was UK citizen otherwise than by descent it is automatically passed onto my daughter. We have been together for some 5 years now and didnt start the Annulment process until my gf came back from working overseas.

The rest of the docs I have and can even get the photos together when she was pregnant. Jim I take it because your Mrs divorce in Korea was not registered in the Phils you didnt provide a CENOMAR.

We started the annulment process over a year ago but got fleeced by a lawyer there that was recommended to us by one of her friends. After a year and paying him 75K in installments we found out that over that period he had done NOTHING my Mrs took it to the court in the Phils and he was ordered to return the money but as of yet and 4 months since the ruling not got a penny back. We have to go back to court and file another one now just so he gets a baliffs order. Oh well we all learn from our mistakes. Have a new decent lawyer now and starting the whole process from scratch.

Peter we just gave them everything we had Ana's divorce should be recognised but so far isn't.

We got fleeced by our first laywer for 40,000 peso same as you he did nothing that was back in 2006 he wasted 18 months of our time but by an accident he got Ana to go somewhere where she could get real help and things have been a lot better since. We are now coming up for our third hearing for recognition of Ana's divorce and hope it will be done by the end of this year, but our case is not really an annulment so it's not exactly the same as your's.

The reason I said to get the DNA test done is because your situation is so similar to ours that I know you are just wasting your time trying to do it via the documents, I guarantee that the embassy will demand a DNA test under that ancillary clause because your partner is still married, so you might as well get it done and not waste any more time.

Basically you need to prove you are you, Passports and Birth Certificate if possible, your partner also needs to prove she is who she says she is again passport birth certificate and the existing marriage certificate, these ID's will be photographed along with photographs being taken of you your partner and your daughter at the time a blood sample is taken from you. You will sign various papers at the DNA lab, if you do all of this at an accredited lab in the Phils the Brit Embassy there will accept it. Any procedure that you try outside the Phils is going to be tricky in terms of the authorities believing the identity of your partner.

The test will prove that you have a child by a partner but you also have to prove that the partner is who she says she is and that her details are all traceable in the Phils.

So what I am saying is if you get it done in the Phils that side is easier, outside the Phils you have a harder time proving who she is but maybe passport and birth certificate will be enough.

The British authorities will not accept the results of samples sent off to a Lab that you say are from you your partner and your child, they want the tests done in a legally sound environment, UP was accredited for DNA evidence in the Philippine courts but they warned us that they were not sure if the British Embassy would accept their results, we called the embassy and the said yes they would accept UP as a testing Lab.

Basically yes your daughter is British, the fact her mother is still married does not matter, as far as the Brit embassy and Philippine Government are concerned my partner is still married to the Korean she divorced 14 years ago and they still gave us my daughters passport.

Give me a few minutes I will get a picture of it as absolute proof :D

Here we go.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5180/5418463280_d0900553d1.jpg

[JimOttley]

no DNA is not complusary but they can insist on the test, it might be worthwhile getting the test done in the uk if you get your visit visa instead of paying £850 :omg:

yes, i presume the embassy would probably ask for a DNA test if your partner is still married to someone else

It'll be over 1000 quid now Joe we had an exchange rate at the time of 85 peso or there abouts the actual 3 way test was 60,000 peso 2 years ago so with inflation etc. could be more.

I still think it is his best bet, they could try to get it done here as I guess it is implied that the UK authorities have already accepted his partners identity but I think it will not be that much cheaper he will still need multiple tests the UK price is just for one test I believe, he will need at least two tests daddy-baby baby-mummy :D

[PeterUK]

"Cellmark is the only company contracted to provide DNA relationship testing for the UK Border Agency. Our results are accepted by United Kingdom and United States immigration departments as well as by other government immigration departments."

http://www.cellmark.co.uk

I was thinking if they get their visit visa approval to use these whilst we are in the UK as they are accredited, can produce all my gf's birth certificate, passports etc. Just a thought as they are 155 pound per person so 3 way test which is required will come to 465 quid plus appointed samplers fee. The one in the Phils by Up is now 66K so almost a thousand pound. If they dont get the visas will have to use the Phils system anyways.

Was quite confident they would get the visit visas but after reading the threads on here have changed that to just optimistic :)even though she has had 2 UK visas before, and shengan visas. Well Monday is her appointment at VFS so heres hoping.

Thanks for all your assistance Guys its very much appreciated and thanks Jim must have been reading it wrong as I had convinced myself that because my gf is still married they had stated that my daughter would not get citizenship.

[JimOttley]

Good luck on the Visa's if she has had two before I am sure that will help but they may be a bit more strict as you are travelling with your child.

My partner has a Korean passport but because of the lack of recognition of her divorce cannot get a Philippine passport, now isn't that wonderful she would be a prisoner in the Phils if it were not for her Korean passport.

Anyway it means she does not need a visa to come to the UK but I always have to prepare a letter of support for her and I have always travelled with her when she has come to Britain, they would probably still refuse a penniless Korean citizen if she didn't have a good explanation of why she was coming here.

I have worried about what questions I would be asked if I tried to bring Ana and Janna in at the same time, my daughter has not been here yet, it occurs to me that they might wonder about us arriving as a family, particularly when Janna has the right to stay here and Ana does not, and be more inclined to get awkward at immigration, I don't know maybe I am worrying too much, we would not want to leave me son behind anyway so I doubt she will be back over here for a couple of years yet.

[PeterUK]

Thanks Jim it seems were all going through the wringer at times and Im glad I have found this site. It does make a huge difference and although we all still stress and worry over the situations, annulments, divorces, visa applications etc just recieving constructive advice and support makes all the difference.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

It seems strange that your Mrs cant get a Phils passport. Sometimes it makes you wonder what you have to do. It is a bonus that she does not need a Visa though.

To be honest Im taking them all back to the UK to see my mum as she is getting on a bit now and never seen our daughter. She is in and out of hospital at the moment, perhaps I should have mentioned that on the sponsor letter. My mum does say that lots of the nurses that treat her are from the Phils so sent them all loads of Pasaluybong from the Phils like Goldilocks, sweets etc. She of course showed them photos of our little daughter and they treated my mum like a princess and called her lola. Bless them:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Have supplied everything they have asked for from Embassy. Ticket bookings, hotel accommodation receipts, itinery of tourist visits, London hotel bookings, Alton Towers etc, proof of return in form of our condo bill of sale as read on here proof of property in the Phils can help. Letter of Support from myself, Savings accounts, etc etc. Also taking her daughter from previous marriage and have letter from her ex giving permission for her to go on holiday. Hope they might look on that as proof of return as well. Also have shown my work contacts here in Syria and tickets booked for return to here so hoping all that will help.

But like many have said on here nothing is guaranteed and its heart wrenching when you see some of the pleas from people for help who have been refused their various applications or been told to leave the UK.

Anyway thanks to you all for advice at least I have found a great site to use and pass the hours away whilst stuck in my apartment here in Syria.

[JimOttley]

I think you've got it pretty well covered Peter, although I agree I would have mentioned the visit to Granny for your daughter.

The reason Ana can't get a Philippine passport is because the DFA have a requirement on the passport application forms that if you are divorced or annulled you have to produce an NSO certified copy of the annotated marriage certificate to get your passport.

Actually we had the Phil Embassy in Korea forward the relevant documents to the DFA and NSO so she might be able to get a passport now, don't know really, but I still want the recognition of her divorce as that's the only way I can marry her in the Phils and I want a Fil-Brit marriage not a Korean-Brit marriage as I would like to retire there eventually.

Again good luck with the visa's.

[Terpe]

To Peter and Jim,
Stick at it guys.
Prayers will be made.

[PeterUK]

Thanks Terpe its most appreciated. :)

VFS for the gf and kids tomorrow morning in Manila did double check on skype of all docs, made sure everything is covered. How long have you guys normally waited for an answer on the Visit Visa process. I know the guide on the web says about 92% within 5 days.

To be honest its for them and my mother the visit, I would prefer to spend my 2 weeks in the Phils as love the place, the people, most of the food :icon_lol: (Sorry but just can't eat Balut) As I work abroad so much was of the thinking that would be better for my Fiancee and kids to be in the Phils but from this site can see there is some great Phil communities over most of the UK, and has made me start to re-think. One step at a time though my daughters citizenship, new baby in the Phils in August and her Annulment, so much to work on but loads of advice and experience here so am more happy dealing with all the future issues that may arise.

[bruneicop]

Good Luck on the Visa's, we applied form Brunei (all gets sent back to Manila) it took 6 working days to get back to Brunei. (take into consideration 3 days transit, then they seem to be pretty quick at the moment.
We are collecting the passport tomorrow...hopefully a visit visa attached to it!!

[PeterUK]

Brunei, Good luck on the visa results. My gf just txt me from the Phils and says she was completed with all the stuff at the VFS. What they did say to her was though as my daughter is visiting her grandmother we should have filled out the visiting family Visa application for her. I had looked at this previously but as we are staying in hotels and visiting London, Staffordshire etc did not think it was the most appropraite form. I know the bonus with the Visiting family one is you have a right of appeal but as she was with her mother and half sister thought would do it all on the same forms. Well hope my result is as quick as yours.