5 Murderers Executed - Well Done Taiwan

[Dedworth]

TAIPEI: Taiwan on Friday executed four prisoners in the first death sentences to be carried out since 2005, the justice ministry said. :appl:


http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1053715/1/.html

[gWaPito]

Along with meating this sort of punishment and sorting out the ' money for nothing' welfare system this will solve the crisis we have.

[keithAngel]

Guys much to your chargrin you still live in a civilised country:)

[jimeve]

Guys much to your chargrin you still live in a civilised country:)

USA, is that not a civilised county too :rolleyes:

[Englishman2010]

TAIPEI: Usually convicts in Taiwan are put to death with a bullet to the head.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1053715/1/.html

It isn't much of a deterent then is it

[jimeve]

It isn't much of a deterent then is it

He's just came into office...... quote...
Recently-appointed Justice Minister Tseng Yung-fu approved the executions on Wednesday, state-run Central News Agency said, citing justice ministry officials..... Time will tell if it's a deterrent.

[gWaPito]

I want to know what dictionary Keith is using

[keithAngel]

In this case
From Merriam-Webster:
disquietude or distress of mind caused by humiliation, disappointment, or failure



Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_chargrin_mean#ixzz1FtVqIjiN

Just trying to counter the dumbing down of mail readers who only need a 40 word plus proper names vocabulary:icon_lol:

[bornatbirth]

lets hope that none of them are found innocent :Erm:

[keithAngel]

China just lines them up one bullet why waste resources:rolleyes:

[johncar54]

Guys much to your chargrin you still live in a civilised country:)

With 619 UK murders in 2010 (if that figure is correct) it's arguable whether a society which fails to have a deterrent which works, can be describes as 'civilised.

Of course to that figure one should add those who, but for a surgeons skill would also have died, and those who are permanently disabled. '

[keithAngel]

Your still 5 times more likely to die in a trafic accident:rolleyes:

[johncar54]

Your still 5 times more likely to die in a trafic accident:rolleyes:

That good to know then, we can give the killers a bonus and know when they kill one of our family we are lucky that they were not killed on the road !!!!!!

[Dedworth]

China used to do it the right way - provide a bit of half time entertainment at the local football ground. Manacled condemned would be paraded round the touchline with placards around their necks detailing their crimes, then driven off in the back of a pick up to a corner of the carpark to have a bullet put through the back of their heads. Cheap & cheerful - it gets the deterrent message across to Joe Public

[Englishman2010]

I dont think capital punishment is a deterent at all. Murders are still commited in countries with a death penalty. The fact is the UK has one of the lowest murder rates per head of population anywhere in the world. Of the 620 or so cases John referred to, I wonder how many of those were intergang related murders. TBH those sort of murders are doing us all a favor by removing the drug pushing scum from the earth. I'd be interested to know what the 'real' number of murders is (excluding rival drug killings and drive bys)?

[Ako Si Jamie]

No point wasting money on keeping scum like serial killers & paedophiles alive when it can be spent on more worthwhile causes.

[johncar54]

Englishman.-

I really cannot believe what you are saying. If you think that the ones being killed 'deserved it' in some way (an incredible idea) then I cannot imagine how you can be against a legal death penalty.

Singapore has a system with serious deterrent sentences. There is almost no crime.
In some cultures where people have nothing and there is no welfare system, I agree deterrents maybe don't work, but that argument does apply in any way to UK.

[Englishman2010]

Englishman.-

I really cannot believe what you are saying. If you think that the ones being killed 'deserved it' in some way (an incredible idea) then I cannot imagine how you can be against a legal death penalty.

Singapore has a system with serious deterrent sentences. There is almost no crime.
In some cultures where people have nothing and there is no welfare system, I agree deterrents maybe don't work, but that argument does apply in any way to UK.


John it was tongue in cheek, but the fact is most ordinary people who have no association with the drug pushing gangster element of our society would automatically react that way in the same way that I don't care if the smackhead who stole my car and smashed it up overdoses on his next fix.
I didn't say I was against the death penalty in my post, I said i didnt think it was a deterent. As it happens I believe that in certain circumstances humane capital punishment has a place in our society for the most brutal murderers and child molesters where rehabilitation isn't going to work or for repeat offenders. However I don't think it would act as a deterent, murderers and child molesters were around prior to the abolition of the death penalty. Capital punishment exists more to apease an angry public when someone has commited a horrific crime

[Arthur Little]

Your still 5 times more likely to die in a trafic accident :rolleyes:

What's that got to do with it? :rolleyes: Unless the traffic "accident" is caused by an inebriated hit-and-run motorist who mows down an :innocent1: child ... then scarpers - leaving his/her victim lying badly injured ... or [worse] ... *dead at the roadside! That's *MURDER ... although the driver (if caught) is likely be convicted of a lesser charge of manslaughter (at most) if the child dies.

What the criminals were executed for in China, amounted to cold-blooded killings in each of the cases reported here. And I have to say that - crimes of passion, gangland slayings, deaths arising from drunken rabbles and/or in acts of self defence apart - :iagree: with John as regards the need for an ultimate deterrent ... whenever it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt that death occurred as a direct result of premeditated homicide.

[Dedworth]

I've always gone along with "String 'em up ! It's the only language those ba$tard$ understand"

[keithAngel]

We have discussed this several times my own view is that its clearly no deterent just revenge and we as a nation decided not to have that done anymore on our behalf there are grave dougbts about the last guy hung in England hanratty

Once your dead an apology for a mistake is not much good

Deadworth apears to favour the spectacle of the Roman arena at half time in your local sports stadium how disgusting is that?:crazy:

[Arthur Little]

We have discussed this several times my own view is that its clearly no deterent just revenge and we as a nation decided not to have that done anymore on our behalf there are grave dougbts about the last guy hung in England hanratty

NO ... :nono-1-1: ... the politicians decided ... HAD the British public been given the chance to vote on the issues of Corporal AND Capital Punishment it would've been a different outcome altogether! And I am convinced BOTH would've ended up being retained!!

Hanratty's guilt has since been established if I'm not mistaken. But irrespective of whether this is the case or not ... DNA profiling has advanced to the extent where it is more or less guaranteed to prevent miscarriages of justice. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

Deadworth apears to favour the spectacle of the Roman arena at half time in your local sports stadium how disgusting is that? :crazy:

Barbaric and disgusting it may be ... but it seemed to work in Roman times - and I'll bet :REGamblMoney01HL1: it would be an effective deterrent NOW!

[keithAngel]

Not enough supply Arthur we would have to import executies:doh

[Dedworth]

We have discussed this several times my own view is that its clearly no deterent just revenge and we as a nation decided not to have that done anymore on our behalf there are grave dougbts about the last guy hung in England hanratty

Once your dead an apology for a mistake is not much good

Deadworth apears to favour the spectacle of the Roman arena at half time in your local sports stadium how disgusting is that?:crazy:

:laugher: Facts wrong again Hanratty wasn't the last man to be hung, still you're on par with my son's excuse for a history teacher - she wrote that it was Bentley

[keithAngel]

My apologies :rolleyes:Probably you have elected the better course in not bothering to attempt open debate Bently had the mental age of 10 as well

Just for your information:icon_lol:

[stevie c]

Along with meating this sort of punishment and sorting out the ' money for nothing' welfare system this will solve the crisis we have.

I couldnt agree more gwapo bring back capital punishment imo :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[stevie c]

I don't think capital punishment is a deterent at all. Murders are still commited in countries with a death penalty. The fact is the UK has one of the lowest murder rates per head of population anywhere in the world. Of the 620 or so cases John referred to, I wonder how many of those were intergang related murders. TBH those sort of murders are doing us all a favor by removing the drug pushing scum from the earth. I'd be interested to know what the 'real' number of murders is (excluding rival drug killings and drive bys)?

Have you watched crimewatch lately the amount of innocent people that have been murdered for the sake of a few quid or there belongings some even tortured before they were murdered i agree there is a big problem with gang related murders but that doesn't alter the fact that capital punishment on the whole would have a big part in cutting down on these terrible crimes i mean what seems better 12yrs in prison or capital punishment it has to be the latter surely :NoNo:

[stevie c]

We have discussed this several times my own view is that its clearly no deterent just revenge and we as a nation decided not to have that done anymore on our behalf there are grave dougbts about the last guy hung in England hanratty

Once your dead an apology for a mistake is not much good

Deadworth apears to favour the spectacle of the Roman arena at half time in your local sports stadium how disgusting is that?:crazy:

i agree with you on the hanratty case but forensics & other investigations have come on leaps & bounds since the hanratty case :Erm:

[Dedworth]

i agree with you on the hanratty case but forensics & other investigations have come on leaps & bounds since the hanratty case :Erm:

I'm surprised he's not mentioned a handwringing apology for slavery yet - ooops sorry I'm on the wrong thread atrocities of the British Empire and Gunboats is on the The Great Offices of State - The Home Office

[johncar54]

News report March 2011.

The murder conviction of James Hanratty, who was hanged 40 years ago protesting his innocence, was today upheld by the Court of Appeal which ruled that DNA evidence established his guilt "beyond doubt".

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-113950/Hanratty-murder-conviction-upheld.html#ixzz1G19UvyDe

[bornatbirth]

do you think they would still hang bentley in todays britain :Erm::Erm:

[johncar54]

Deterrents:-

When the death penalty was suspended in 1965 the murder rate in UK was around 50 a year, now it is 600 ( and that is excluding manslaughter and serious GBH convictions).,

I would argue that sentences can be deterrents but the problem is that sentences are not deterrents. If they were they would deter and crime would be much lower. Reluctantly I believe that punishments should be increased until the deterrent effect become clear.

In any argument about crime I believe the overwhelming concern should be the protection of the innocent victim not the well-being of the criminal.

[johncar54]

do you think they would still hang bentley in todays britain :Erm::Erm:

A number of people taking part in the commission of a crime are equally guilty of each others actions. So in principle Yes.

However, since then things have changed. In the Craig and Bentley case the mental age of Bentley, would now probably make it unlikely (rightly so in my opinion) that he would hang.

[Arthur Little]

Hanratty's guilt has since been established if I'm not mistaken. But irrespective of whether this is the case or not ... DNA profiling has advanced to the extent where it is more or less guaranteed to prevent miscarriages of justice. :xxgrinning--00xx3:


News report March 2011.

The murder conviction of James Hanratty, who was hanged 40 years ago protesting his innocence, was today upheld by the Court of Appeal which ruled that DNA evidence established his guilt "beyond doubt".

Aha :rolleyes: ... so I was'nt mistaken in my earlier statement about Hanratty!

[gWaPito]

Good post English man. I differ on your opinion on capital punishment having no effect. You only got to look at the statistics. If you haven't already, watch the film .Pierrepoint'. You won't stop the child killers etc but you will have an effect on those ' casual' robbery killings. You mentioned about no sorrow about the smack head going to the wall, I put it to you how would you feel that junkie being one of yours. Dealers should be treated like mass murderers, with a bullet through the head.

[gWaPito]

Like what's been pointed out already, with modern technology, it's hardly likely of any miscarriages of justice, unlike in the past. What it wants is a few of our law makers to fall foul of these scum, we will see changes then:NoNo:

[bornatbirth]

Like what's been pointed out already, with modern technology, it's hardly likely of any miscarriages of justice, unlike in the past. What it wants is a few of our law makers to fall foul of these scum, we will see changes then:NoNo:

ok, so you can prove that a person is guilty ...who do you feel you can kill and by what method :Erm:

[johncar54]

Just because a person is found not guilty or is acquitted on appeal, does not PROVE they are innocent.

If a jury cannot be satisfied beyond all reasonable doubt they must acquit. As I said that does not prove they are innocent nor that they should not have been charged. Often witnesses, for a variety of reasons, change their evidence or the jury just do not believe them. OR maybe an error arises in the prosecution case, in which case the jury must give the accused the benefit of any doubt.

Also be aware that many writers get best-sellers based on a distortion of the facts of a case. Ludovic Kennedy was one such author.

And finally, Timothy Evans admitted killing his baby so whether of not his conviction for killdeer his wife was or was not correct he would have been hanged if he had been acquitted of his wife's murder.

[Dedworth]

What it wants is a few of our law makers to fall foul of these scum, we will see changes then:NoNo:

Excellent point G

[Englishman2010]

Good post English man. I differ on your opinion on capital punishment having no effect. You only got to look at the statistics. If you haven't already, watch the film .Pierrepoint'. You won't stop the child killers etc but you will have an effect on those ' casual' robbery killings. You mentioned about no sorrow about the smack head going to the wall, I put it to you how would you feel that junkie being one of yours. Dealers should be treated like mass murderers, with a bullet through the head.

I can see where you're coming from Gwap, and in some ways it's the most simple solution, but as we live in a so called civilised society and preach its virtues around the world, we also have to be seen to be acting in a civilised way too. There's no easy answer for this and there will always be good arguments and cases put forward on both sides.

And yes, I really have no sympathy at all for drug dealers who get killed by rival gangs or who overdose and die. They know the risks when they get involved in that scene, if you want to dance with the devil, you've got to be prepared to pay the price. Would I feel differently if I knew someone who was invoved? Probably yes:Erm: but i don't and hopefully my life is too far removed from it to ever get involved with it, and I intend to make sure the people I love the most don't get involved with it either.

[Arthur Little]

do you think they would still hang bentley in todays britain :Erm::Erm:

NO :nono-1-1: ... not even if Capital Punishment WERE still in existence ... and they shouldn't have done so at the time either!

Bentley (19) was diagnosed with epilepsy following a childhood accident. But ... more than that ... various psychological tests revealed him as being of low intelligence - if not entirely mentally defective - meaning that the words he's alleged to've shouted to his 16-year-old accomplice urging him to "let 'im [the police officer] have it, Chris!" - are open to misinterpretation nearly six decades later. Yet it was on these 5 simple words that the whole trial seemed to hinge. And it was those words that - after only two days - led the jury to convict Bentley.

Now whether he actually uttered the words ... resulting in his co-accused pulling the trigger of the sawn-off shotgun that killed PC Miles is open to conjecture. As is the message he'd been trying to convey to his youthful companion when the latter fired the fatal shot. :NEW3: Could he, for example - in the heat of momentary panic - have been exhorting Christopher Craig to surrender :ARsurrender: his weapon to the approaching constable? We shall never know for sure! :NoNo: But one thing IS certain ... and that is it was THIS statement that formed the basis for the pair's conviction and Bentley's subsequent execution.

Ten years later, in 1963, Craig was released from prison ... and is alive to this day. He claims that scarcely a day passes that he doesn't deeply regret what happened to his friend.

Sadly, :bigcry: Bentley's sister, Iris - who'd campaigned long and hard for her brother Derek to be given a posthumous pardon - didn't live to see it finally being granted in 1998.

As Keith Angel [rightly] points out; "What use is an apology to someone who's dead?" On the other hand, [B]I would continue to maintain that thanks to the emergence of DNA Profiling ... and the tremendous breakthroughs in its indispensible thoroughness in the detection and solving of all sorts of crime ... the chances of a person being wrongly convicted are relatively slim. Unfortunately for Derek Bentley, it arrived half a century too late to save his neck!

[Arthur Little]

ok, so you can prove that a person is guilty ...who do you feel you can kill and by what method :Erm:

Brady & Hindley, the 'Moors Murderers', were classic examples of the :devil: incarnate! There's not a shadow of doubt :nono-1-1: about the horrendous cruelties that EVIL pair inflicted on their defenceless child victims. To MY mind - and in the mindset of the British public at large - those two were beyond redemption. Hanging - even if if it had still been in common use in the mid 1960s - would've been too kind a disposal for them. :thumbsdown: Instead, they deserved to be driven to the quiet spots where their horrific deeds were committed ... and slowly subjected to the selfsame tortures :xxaction-smiley-047: and atrocities :xxmixed-smiley-017: THEY'D meted out at each of the remote locations ... then left to die slowly - ALONE and in pain - in similar fashion. :cwm23:

Thankfully, Hindley was never released - despite that old buffoon, Lord Longford's :crazy:, misguided efforts on her behalf - and ended up dying in captivity. Alas, the best we can hope and :pray: for at this late stage, is that the same miserable fate awaits Brady! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[keithAngel]

To take another "classic"example the Guidford 4 were all found guilty of Murder in 1975 and would have been hung if the death penalty had existed this apology would have been cold comfort then

On 9 February 2005, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_the_United_Kingdom) Tony Blair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blair) issued an apology to the families of the eleven people imprisoned for the bombings in Guildford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildford) and Woolwich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolwich), and those related to them who were still alive, by saying, in part: "I am very sorry that they were subject to such an ordeal and injustice... they deserve to be completely and publicly exonerated."[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildford_Four_and_Maguire_Seven#cite_note-10)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildford_Four_and_Maguire_Seven :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[johncar54]

This is a quote:-

Bentley's conviction was overturned by the Court of Appeal in July last year on the basis that the summing up and direction to the jury of the trial judge Lord Chief Justice Lord Goddard was flawed on several counts, meaning the teenager did not receive a fair trial.


This was part of the explanation why he/his family were not entitled to compensation.

The reality of this is that had the judge not made errors in the summing up, Bentley may still have been found guilty. (I have personal knowledge of a similar case where a error was made by the judge in summing up which resulted in the person being released. Unfortunately he killed another person within 24 hours)

The same applies in other similar cases.

If something is found, maybe years later, which had it been known at the time should have been mentioned, it can lead to a successful appeal, but in no way in such a case does it mean they were proved to be innocent, only that they must be given the benefit of any doubt.

Until fairly recently, a person who was acquitted could not be re-tried, even in extreme cases where people have subsequently written articles or a book, explaining how they committed the crime.

This means that those who would like to show innocent people were convicted cannot use the Bentley, the Guildford, Woolwich or any other similar case, to support their argument .

I am convinced that the number of people, who may have been convicted of murder incorrectly is probably extremely small (although even one is too many) and even in those cases where there was a wrong finding, that the accused were as least to some extent responsible for the miscarriage of justice, for example, by lying their heads off when question.

[bornatbirth]

that the accused were as least to some extent responsible for the miscarriage of justice, for example, by lying their heads off when question.

you mean they sholud blame themselfs, as your a former police officer will you ever admit to there being bent officers who stitched the accused up to further their career :Erm:

[gWaPito]

ok, so you can prove that a person is guilty ...who do you feel you can kill and by what method :Erm:

What's wrong with the methods of yesteryear. Remember, this status of non capital punishment is a new phenomenon. It was less than 60 years since Ruth Ellis swang by the rope. As for getting volunteer' s to do the deed, it shouldn't cause a problem. The likes of Lord Longford have much to answer for.

[johncar54]

you mean they sholud blame themselfs, as your a former police officer will you ever admit to there being bent officers who stitched the accused up to further their career :Erm:

I have never denied dishonest police have been arrested and, unfortunately, will continue to be arrested. Mostly they have taken money to help people get off, not to convict innocent people for murder (there may have been such cases, but I can't think of any). They have always been arrested, investigated and prosecuted by police officers (surprisingly, not by people who love to take every opportunity to throw mud at the police).


Quote: you mean they should blame themselves.

In the cases where they have muddied the waters they are to blame to some extent. As would be those, who falsely confess or are falsely accused by others but whom the police were able to prove should not be charged.

In probably every major investigation people falsely confess and or are falsely accused by others. They of course do not make headlines, thus most people are not aware of it.

[Dedworth]

The likes of Lord Longford have much to answer for.


we are in the mess we are today due to the liberal left - broken/benefit Britain, failed multiculturalism, muslim extremism, lawlesness and lack of respect. It's all down to the poisonous cocktail of ageing hippies, hand wringing liberals, old and new labourites. I'd happily string the lot of them up.

[gWaPito]

we are in the mess we are today due to the liberal left - broken/benefit Britain, failed multiculturalism, muslim extremism, lawlesness and lack of respect. It's all down to the poisonous cocktail of ageing hippies, hand wringing liberals, old and new labourites. I'd happily string the lot of them up.

I agree Ded although the multicultural thing is working in my house. What I don't agree with is the disenfranchisement by some of our extremist fraternity.

[Arthur Little]

Hmm ... the problem with this topic seems to be that many of the people reading/responding [to] it on here, aren't of a generation OLD enough to REMEMBER :rolleyes: the Death Penalty being used in the UK :NoNo: - notably 'born at birth'! :)

[Dedworth]

I agree Ded although the multicultural thing is working in my house. What I don't agree with is the disenfranchisement by some of our extremist fraternity.

You are right I've no probs obviously with our personal multiculturalism, thats our choice but the state multiculturalism that has been imposed on us by the socialists

[johncar54]

Hmm ... the problem with this topic seems to be that many of the people reading/responding [to] it on here, aren't of a generation OLD enough to REMEMBER :rolleyes: the Death Penalty being used in the UK :NoNo: - notably 'born at birth' :)

Or maybe, dare I say, not old enough to see the wheat from the chaff in the 'do gooders' distorted arguments

[keithAngel]

I notice no one has commented on the guilford 4 :Erm: to tough guys to see the flaw this miscarriage was a police issue

[gWaPito]

You are right I've no probs obviously with our personal multiculturalism, thats our choice but the state multiculturalism that has been imposed on us by the socialists

Yes Ded:xxgrinning--00xx3: I was jst making it clear to the passer by that we are married to Filipinas. To quote both my Grandfather and Dad ' there was a time when a murder made front page news, now hanging been abolished, its not the case'. The socialist are indeed the blame for what we have now.

Second most popular country in the world, that's a laugh, obviously its for our climate nothing to do with money for nothing handouts

[johncar54]

I notice no one has commented on the guilford 4 :Erm: to tough guys to see the flaw this miscarriage was a police issue

I don't have any personal knowledge of the Guildford 4, however, I did just find that the success of their appeal appears to have been the result of a police officer discovering what appeared to be a falsification of notes.

Quote:_ In 1989, a detective looking at the case found typed notes from Patrick Armstrong's police interviews, which had been heavily edited. Deletions and additions had been made, and the notes had been rearranged. These notes, and their amendments, were consistent with hand-written and typed notes presented at the trial, which suggested that the hand-written notes were made after the interviews had been conducted. This implied that the police had manipulated the notes to fit with the case they wanted to present.

I know this will sound revolutionary, but I believe suspects should not be cautioned that they need not say anything but the opposite i.e that they are OBLIGED to answer questions and that not doing so will he held against them. In my view the basic rule should be to ensure justice, not some silly game, designed and maintained so that the legal profession can earn huge fees at the expense of 'justice' and the public purse.

[Arthur Little]

... driven off in the back of a pick up to a corner of the carpark to have a bullet put through the back of their heads.

:omg: ...


Cheap & cheerful ...

... :NEW4: ... cheap, perhaps. But I wouldn't go so far as to call it "cheerful"! :cwm24:

Nevertheless ... :iagree: with the view you've expressed in your concluding statement about it's deterrent value!


- it gets the deterrent message across to Joe Public

:yeahthat:!

[Arthur Little]

... that's a laugh, obviously its for our climate ...

:raining: ... now it's YOU that's having a laugh, 'sunshine'! :laugher:

[scott&ligaya]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3453737/Shot-girl-victim-of-gang-rivalry.html

this story is sickening... A young 16 yr old girl waiting for a pizza in North London gunned down with a sub machine gun fired by another youth at a gang rival.... for christs sake sub machine guns in the hands of 16 year olds on the streets of our Capital!!!! I do not care about the age of the shooter. just leave him tied to a chair in a room with the girls mother for five minutes and see if she feels like being forgiving

[Arthur Little]

by what method :Erm:

Whats wrong with using the old-fashioned French method? 'Madame La Guillotine' - :behead: "heads WILL roll" [literally!] - quick, (fairly) humane ... and extremely effective.

[bornatbirth]

Whats wrong with using the old-fashioned French method? 'Madame La Guillotine' - :behead: "heads WILL roll" [literally!] - quick, (fairly) humane ... and extremely effective.

arthur, your sounding more like dedworth everyday :D

its been proven that people get wrongly convicted and sentenced to prison for many years....even with these so called mistakes some of you want to :NEW4: or :behead: :bigcry:

[gWaPito]

from what ive read with the states before and after the abolition of capital punishment, it's shown tobe a worthwhile deterrent with the odd mistake here and there.

[keithAngel]

John thanks for being the only one to address my point It wouldnt help of course to change the law as you sugest if Police Officers are under pressure to achieve a conviction and use inapropriate or criminal methods to arrive at that end. Nor would there release have been possible had they been hung

[gWaPito]

I will reiterate what Dedworth and I have said, until you' ve been on the receiving end of the scum in question, your opinions somewhat biassed to say the least.

Bornabirth You wanted to know who wld do the deed on either opening the trap door or pulling the trigger, if it was your loved one affected, I bet you wld be first in the queue.

[keithAngel]

Direct experience of violence to your family may well change your views but who here is saying that?

If not my premise still holds as by the same token neither would anyone here want a relative to be hung for a crime they didnt commit:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

arthur, your sounding more like dedworth everyday :D

:cwm24: ... I'll take that as a "compliment", shall I !? :D

[bornatbirth]

:cwm24: ... I'll take that as a "compliment", shall I !? :D

of course, Arthur :D

[gWaPito]

Im interested in Keithangel and Bornabirth answer in dealing with these scum?

Do we continue to give them life sentences which last from 7 to 15 years?

I wonder what the Laurence family would say about it.

Face it guys, the situation has got worse. This namby pamby approach has failed miserably.

[Dedworth]

Im interested in Keithangel and Bornabirth answer in dealing with these scum?

Do we continue to give them life sentences which last from 7 to 15 years?

I wonder what the Laurence family would say about it.

Face it guys, the situation has got worse. This namby pamby approach has failed miserably.

I suspect that after a lot of soulsearching and handwringing it would be a toss up between an ASBO or a spot of Community Service. They still believe in Phony Tony's Mantra of "Tough on Crime, Tough on The Causes of Crime"

[gWaPito]

And between those, summer camps to the Cote de Zur.

Why not, they are victims of a society of our own making Not!

The gloves need to be replaced with knuckle dusters and slippers for steel toe capped boots.

[bornatbirth]

Im interested in Keithangel and Bornabirth answer in dealing with these scum?



I suspect that after a lot of soulsearching and handwringing it would be a toss up between an ASBO or a spot of Community Service. They still believe in Phony Tony's Mantra of "Tough on Crime, Tough on The Causes of Crime"

i would give them the choice of a week with dedworth or a few years in prison :icon_lol:



i would lock all so called scum up for life until they die and for those who do get to be found innocent...well at least their still alive :xxgrinning--00xx3:

you do know that prison isnt a deterrent, its just a hindrance to them and when many of them get released most will reoffend :xxaction-smiley-047

[Arthur Little]

of course, Arthur :D

But ... :Erm: ... couldn't it possibly be you're confusing me with Gwapito ... who's since taken up the cudgels ?!

[bornatbirth]

But ... :Erm: ... couldn't it possibly be you're confusing me with Gwapito ... who's since taken up the cudgels ?!

or maybe your sounding more like gwapito or maybe i should wear my glasses because everything looks the same to me :cwm24:

[Arthur Little]

maybe i should wear my glasses because everything looks the same to me :cwm24:

Aye well ... maybe you should! :rolleyes: ... there's none so blind as those who CAN'T (or WON'T) see when folk are trying to tell them something!!! :NoNo:

[keithAngel]

Uniquivocle Life for Premeditated murder with no mitigating circumstance should mean just that clear enough

[gWaPito]

Keith You personally will always find mitigating circumstances, it's in your nature Keith

[keithAngel]

life often isnt black or white Gwap regardless of how much we might want it to be:icon_lol: