What are your opinions on the Fukushima nuclear problems?

[Englishman2010]

* Apologies if this is in the wrong section.

The situation at the Fukushima Nuclear plant seems to be worsening every day. The Japanese Gov't are still playing it down, no doubt to stop any more hysteria.

Like the majority of people I'm no expert on nuclear issues, and every time I turn the TV on, another 'expert' is giving another conflicting opinion to the previous 'expert'. None of us really know what its happening over there. All I know is that it is a terrible tragedy watching the poor Japanese inhabitants of the north eastern coast searching for their loved ones and belongings in amongst the remains of what used to be their homes, and now they have to contend with the threat of radioactive fallout from the damaged nuclear reactors.

How do you think this is going to end up?

[grahamw48]

I agree it is just heart-breaking watching these poor people searching for their relatives amongst the ruins of their towns.

We are so lucky living in a country so untroubled by natural calamities like this .

The Nuclear power stations' weaknesses should serve as a warning to us all.

Imagine one of our own power stations being bombed for instance, and sustaining far worse damage. Scary.

A very 'interesting' situation unfolding in Japan day by day, and a feeding frenzy for the media.

I can only feel compassion for my fellow human beings who have suffered and are still suffering so terribly .

[KeithD]

Nuclear power is the safest form of energy we've ever had, if it wasn't for nuke power, to sustain the same level of power over the years we'd have pumped about another 20% of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere causing more drought, hurricanes, typhoons, fires, etc, which kill far more than any radiation leak. We've only had one bad one, Chernobyl, and that was because it was flawed.

I'd be quite happy if we went 100% nuclear. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I live in the 'iffy' zone of 3 sites, doesn't bother me. More chance of being attacked by a badger :D

[Englishman2010]

I'm not against nuclear power, and agree that it is the only realistic way of generating our future power needs and reducing our carbon emissions, another advantage is that it will reduce our reliance on Arab states and Russia.

Watching the news today, I can't help thinking that the Japanese Gov't or power company haven't been completely honest about the situation, and Tepco have a long history of giving misleading information.

It doesn't affect us over here, but it doesn't stop me feeling sorry for the millions of people who've lost everything in the Tsunami and are now living in fear of the unknown from the power station.

Watching the news, I have been amazed by the self control and dignity those who have lost everything have shown. I haven't read any reports of looting or rioting. If that had happened in many other countries the people would be rioting by now.

[KeithD]

I doubt the japanese authorities know exactly what is going on as they lost all the sensors during the blasts. Anyone here want to volunteer to walk right up to reactor 3 and spend a good while checking it all over? :crazy:

[aposhark]

Makes you wonder why they built so many Nuclear plants in an area where the tectonic plates are unstable :NoNo:

[grahamw48]

We'd all be better off concentrating our minds on how to reduce the population of the world by about 75%. :rolleyes:

[aposhark]

We'd all be better off concentrating our minds on how to reduce the population of the world by about 75%. :rolleyes:

Steady on, we're trying for our second child :D

[bornatbirth]

Steady on, we're trying for our second child :D

maybe over 50's will be the first to go :D

[aposhark]

maybe over 50's will be the first to go :D

Perhaps you're right, caresses in the dark with a beautiful wife can certainly over-stress the heart :Cuckoo:

[Arthur Little]

maybe over 50's will be the first to go :D

:reaction: ... "perish" the thought! :omg:

[johncar54]

Makes you wonder why they built so many Nuclear plants in an area where the tectonic plates are unstable :NoNo:

Well I guess it's because to get far enough away from the 'danger area' would mean building them in a another country thousands of miles away (say UK). Not very practical !!!

I am amazed that so many people, just by guessing, jump to the conclusion that the Japanese Government are lying.

The escape of radiation can be measured, probably in any part of the world, so no point in lying.

[Doc Alan]

* Apologies if this is in the wrong section.
How do you think this is going to end up?
Of course we don't yet know the outcome, but since this is in the "Health Issues" section, here's what is already known:-
Ionising radiation acts by damaging DNA, and there's now much evidence it can induce cancers.
Radiation-induced cancers were seen in early radiologists, who used their own hands to calibrate their equipment. In the early days of therapeutic radiation its effects were not appreciated, and around 1950 more thyroid cancer was noted in people who had had such irradiation in childhood for minor conditions.
Many of the survivors of the atomic bombs which fell on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 later succumbed to various cancers including leukaemia.
In April 1986 the nuclear reactor in Chernobyl exploded, releasing radio-active substances into the atmosphere. Large doses of radio-active iodine were inhaled and ingested in food including milk. An increase in thyroid cancer was noted in children, especially in the southern part of Belarus, as early as 1990. Around 2000 cases have now been documented. The effects of the atomic bombs in Japan were related to external radiation because the explosions occurred at high altitude and there was little radio-iodine fallout.

[KeithD]

Makes you wonder why they built so many Nuclear plants in an area where the tectonic plates are unstable :NoNo:

That was taken into account when they built the reactors, and the reactors worked just fine during the earthquake with the rods retracting to stop the process, and the reactors were not damaged in anyway. The problem we have now is that they didn't plan for 3rd party redundancy in regard to pumping water, that's the only issue. They should have built more back up on higher ground, or have mobile large scale generators and pumps.

Regardless of what the media says, it still isn't actually a disaster yet, and the rods have been out for nearly a week now, another week and they'll be cool enough to move out of the reactor.

[aposhark]

That was taken into account when they built the reactors, and the reactors worked just fine during the earthquake with the rods retracting to stop the process, and the reactors were not damaged in anyway. The problem we have now is that they didn't plan for 3rd party redundancy in regard to pumping water, that's the only issue. They should have built more back up on higher ground, or have mobile large scale generators and pumps.

Regardless of what the media says, it still isn't actually a disaster yet, and the rods have been out for nearly a week now, another week and they'll be cool enough to move out of the reactor.

Your text enlarged and made bold by me :yikes:
Maybe they should have had more thought, after all "Tsunami" is a Japanese word.

[Terpe]

Japan has been involved with nuclear power since the 1960's.
It already has over 50 fully working reactors, largely successful. There have been issues over the years from time to time and nearly all official information
released has been very economical with the truth about what's behind the incidents.

I guess with a track record like that no-one is likely to believe or be reassuranced at this time.

Just like everyone else here I have no special knowledge of nuclear power generation.
But as an engineer, once involved with safety critical equipment, I do have an understanding of Failure Modes and Effects Analysis (FMEA)

Very simply, we can identify what has happened to this plant, that was very carefully designed to be 'earthquake' proof.

The massive earthquake caused the reactors to shut down just as they were designed to do.
Unfortunately it also completely knocked out the AC power supply to the cooling plant.
The back-up auxilliary diesel generators then failed due to some effects from the tsunami. This has meant relying almost totally on emergency battery power,
which must be almost depleted by now.

The US military are currently in the process of shipping and attempting to fit auxilliary new generators and also new emergency battery backup.
New AC supply power lines are currently being put in place.

Now, purely from an FMEA perspective why would all the coolant pumps fail in each of the reactors.

When considering 'unaviodable issues', equipment systems such as the cooling plant, that has been subject to failure analysis, should not all be potentially subject
subject to the the same mode and root cause failure as appears to be the case.
I would have though that these systems should have been totally independant from from each other.
I think at some point this issue may well be raised and investigated.

The latest design generations of nuclear reactors are equipped with technology that permits cooling, in times of power outages.
These systems do not need cooling Water to be pumped in. (which has been the issue in Japan).

The worst case scenario is that quantities of radioactive particles get into the atmosphere, the food supplies and the water supplies. The really heavy particles may not get too far...... well depending on weather conditions.
Locally, people and things can be washed and cleaned, soil can be scraped away etc but if people eat, drink or breathe in radioactive particles it's almost impossible to manage.

Whether we like it or not global nuclear power generation has already been identified as having a major impact in reducing greenhouse gases and carbon footprints. To meet the climate goals estimates are that the world would need to build 20 to 40 reactors each year.
Just how and where all the waste might be stored is another question.

[Doc Alan]

It is clear we already have expertise among forum members.
The Chernobyl incident over a quarter of a century ago is estimated to have caused less than 60 direct deaths, but sadly around 4000 additional deaths later from various cancers. Of course we just don't know yet what the maximum amount of radioactive release from the Fukushima power plant will be. Worrying indeed.

[Terpe]

It really is very worrying.
From the media reports it seems that there are only 180 workers that are going in and out of the reactor areas to do the works requested by the 'experts'. The Japanese Nuclear safety organisations have increased the maximum allowable levels so that these workers can spend more time in the danger zone. They are working in 3 shift pattern to minimise contamination.
They have been working under terrible conditions now for nearly a week and must be totally exhausted mentally,Physically and emotionally.
They are real HERO'S

[Terpe]

Just on another note, there has been a 'skype interview' on TFC (TV Patrol) with a number of Care Workers in a care home for the elderly in the danger zone of Fukushima area.
God Bless them all, (and their Japanese co-workers) they decided they will stay to maintain care for the elderly who have NOT been evacuated by the authorities.

Also many Doctors and nurses have decided to stay with their patients at some hospitals also within the evacuation area.

I have always had every admiration for the dignity and determination of the ordinary Japanese people. They understand the meaning of teamwork and focus.
Pity the Japanese Government and advisors change so much once they have the power and the MONEY

Whoops! sorry rant over.

[Englishman2010]

I have always had every admiration for the dignity and determination of the ordinary Japanese people. They understand the meaning of teamwork and focus.
.

That has been my overall impression of this terrible situation, there has been none of the mass hysteria we would expect to see anywhere else in the world. The ordinary Japanese people appear to be getting on with things the best that they can, despite the terrible losses they have suffered and despite the fear of what might happen if another earthquake, tsunami hits them or if the nuclear situation worsens.

I have to admit that whilst it's shocking to see earthquakes in some parts of the world, I don't usually feel a lot of sympathy for the people, it's just another earthquake and I remove myself from any emotion when I watch the pictures on TV.

However, this time I really do feel a great deal of sympathy for the Japanese people. The way they have conducted themselves during this crisis is a lesson to us all. I've never been to Japan and don't know any Japanese people, so I have no reason to think any differently about them than I would do if an earthquake hit Uzbekistan or Indonesia, but the way they have all acted must be the reason why I feel for them

[raynaputi]

Japanese are known for their very disciplined and strict attitude, most of them if not all..that's just how they are brought up..no wonder lots of Filipinos i know who worked in a Japanese company complained..:rolleyes: i'm sure if that happened here in the Philippines, mass hysteria would be one of the problems too..

[Englishman2010]

i'm sure if that happened here in the Philippines, mass hysteria would be one of the problems too..

Filipina's get hysterical if they don't get a reply to an IM after 2 minutes:icon_lol:

[raynaputi]

hahahahaha!!! shhhh... :icon_lol:

[Englishman2010]

hahahahaha!!! shhhh... :icon_lol:

:icon_lol: You're as bad Rayna, I've seen your panicky FB posts ;)

[raynaputi]

hahahahahahaha...shhhhhhhhhhhhhh...... :D

[KeithD]

filipina's get hysterical if they don't get a reply to an im after 2 minutes:icon_lol:

:) :) :)

[Doc Alan]

It's hard to believe that the largest ever earthquake in Japan's history, equivalent in power to 30,000 Hiroshimas, occurred only a week ago. There's still concern that the only country to have suffered mass radiation from atomic attack may be on the verge of another nuclear nightmare. We don't yet know the true numbers of lives lost and other consequences of the tsunami. Added to this is the worry of the unknown - what is the potential damage to human health from the stricken reactors ?
Despite all that has been said, nuclear power has, to date, a reasonably safe record. Chernobyl's death toll is only an estimate, a few thousand people at most. It's hard to obtain accurate figures for comparison, but China's coal mines "certainly kill 2,000 - 3,000 workers a year" ( this week's "The Economist"). Lung disease (pneumoconiosis, chronic bronchitis and emphysema) from coal - smogged air affects many more people in the world. For Japan to abandon nuclear power would mean massive imports of gas and perhaps coal. The best nuclear safety does, however, need good planning and engineering, with accountability. That's most likely in democracies ( which may also, of course, have minorities able to oppose and prevent such development).

[Doc Alan]

The Fukushima nuclear problems are not over. The Japanese and rest of the world are increasingly wanting to know why it's taking so long to tame an overheating nuclear plant. The nuclear industry and Japanese Government made over-optimistic assumptions about risks.
The Government and international health experts have reassured the public that tainted milk, spinach, and other vegetables produced in the Fukushima area would have to be consumed in enormous quantities to pose a health risk. But there has been panic-buying of potassium iodide tablets in the USA and the Japanese Government has considered distributing them in their own country. Radioactive iodine-131 which is unavoidably produced from nuclear fission, can be absorbed by the thyroid gland, later causing cancer, as in Chernobyl ( when iodide tablets were not issued).
Caesium-137 is another concern. It caused widespread damage to the food supply after Chernobyl, takes longer than I-131 to decay, and also causes cancer. The "Fukushima 50" brave workers may be at increased risk of cancer for the rest of their lives.
There are worries, seemingly unfounded, about tap water in Tokyo, 150 miles away.
The already dire situation in the northeast has been compounded by a shortage of doctors and nurses. In towns and villages covered by the 30 km radius from the nuclear power plant, where over 200,000 people have either been evacuated or told to stay indoors, providing even basic treatment is a daily struggle.
Nuclear reactors generate 14% of the world's electricity. The fear and uncertainty arising from Fukushima distorts perception of risks, however. The world's population would be a lot healthier and its climate less prone to change if less coal was used. Nuclear power saves carbon, it won't go away, but the cost and risks ( real or apparent ) seem to make it unlikely to generate more than that 14% any time soon.

[Doc Alan]

It's a shame if the thread started by Englishman has lost members' interest and concern. I can't single-handedly support him with updates if there's no response.

[Terpe]

I'm feeling more worried than ever about this.
Latest reports indicate that there have been very significant increases in radioactive iodine levels in the seawater.
There are also news reports Plutonium has been found in the soil around the plant.

It appears to be signalling evidence of major reactor leakages around the complex and further afield.

Also, the sadness of the human impact from the tsunami is still haunting me despite the new reports now seem to only focus only on the Fukushima reactors.
There are over 27,500 people dead or missing.

[KeithD]

The water is just the run-off from the water they've been spraying on it for 2 weeks, and they only started monitoring the sea around the area a few hundred feet out at the weekend. So it's probably been like that for 2 weeks, and it soon gets watered down.

The plutonium is just from a partial meltdown of exposed fuel rods, and they have it under control as the temperature of the rods is now manageable. Plutonium is not that good in soil, but it's only small amounts. It would be better if it was uranium as it's half-life is vastly smaller.

[Doc Alan]

There's rightly continuing interest and concern in the consequences of the earthquake and tsunami. As Terpe says, the official figure for dead and missing is over 27,000. "The Lancet" - possibly the best medical journal in the world - has called for more articles on the aftermath. As it's not readily available, I'm happy to keep a look out for reliable updates from this source, and summarise them for members :xxgrinning--00xx3:.

[jerry46]

It could get a lot worse. Japan are now scrapping it. But the radiation from the plant has been felt in the UK in very small levels am I correct?

[KeithD]

It could get a lot worse. Japan are now scrapping it. But the radiation from the plant has been felt in the UK in very small levels am I correct?

The plant was being scrapped before the earthqauke, hence Reactor 4 had no rods in it. You can pick up radioactive particles from our Sun 93M miles away so don't worry about the odd particle per billion.

[Doc Alan]

Now the Japanese authorities have raised the severity rating of their nuclear crisis to the highest level, seven. This level previously only applied to Chernobyl, where 10 times as much radiation was emitted.
However, the decision affects the total release of radiation, which is ongoing, not a sudden deterioration.
I've seen no new articles in the medical press, but BBC News Health has a questions and answers section on health effects of radiation (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12722435?print=true) :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[KeithD]

Meltdown is no longer an issue as the rods will be cooled enough by now, but they are still having problems with recycling the radioactive water.

[Walaytawo]

Should be a wake up call, but I don't think we'll ever learn :doh

[johncar54]

QUOTE Should be a wake up call, but I don't think we'll ever learn



It all very well people saying that Nuclear power is dangerous, but so is fossil fuel generation and the prospect of 'green energy' being available in the quantities needed is very far off.

If one is going to say existing forms of generation should be banned then I suggest at the same time they need to suggest a viable alternative, which is available now. And that is one which does not require large amounts of energy to produce the 'green gadget.' Example, unlike Battery powered cars, which need electricity generated by the power stations, to charge them !

[Walaytawo]

It all very well people saying that Nuclear power is dangerous, but so is fossil fuel generation and the prospect of 'green energy' being available in the quantities needed is very far off.

That's the trouble - we now feel it is our God-given right to have all the things we've become accustomed to. Our needs and greed should never be so much that we're willing to put the whole planet at risk.

[grahamw48]

That's the trouble - we now feel it is our God-given right to have all the things we've become accustomed to. Our needs and greed should never be so much that we're willing to put the whole planet at risk.

Absolutely right ! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Lemmings come to mind.

(I have spent most of my working life in the Energy Efficiency business, and believe me it can be very frustrating at times trying to convince people to think further ahead than the end of their noses :rolleyes:)

[Arthur Little]

Absolutely right ! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Lemmings come to mind.

(I have spent most of my working life in the Energy Efficiency business, and believe me it can be very frustrating at times trying to convince people to think further ahead than the end of their noses :rolleyes:)

:iagree: ... having watched last night's BBC4 Golden Jubilee programme commemorating mankind's first venture into Space (see my thread bearing the title 'Around the World in 60 Minutes') it was quite a revelation to learn that millions of discarded plastic containers are washed up on - otherwise beautiful and unspoilt - Hawaiian beaches ... thus endangering the Islands' wildlife :rolleyes: ... not to mention the immense damage such broken-down debris inflicts on our planet's environment as a whole! :doh