Filipino's Executed

[KeithD]

Following on from a previous thread on the subject, 3 Filipino's have now been executed in China.

If you want to break the law in foreign countries, you must accept the consequences..... and yet we just let them walk :NoNo: Free to deal (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3499088/Judge-lets-off-pusher-with-50k-drug-haul-including-crystal-meth.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News)

[keithAngel]

MANILA — Chinese authorities executed three Filipino drug mules on Wednesday, triggering condemnation in the Catholic Philippines and despair for family members who shared their final moments.

The executions came after repeated pleas by the Philippine government for their sentences to be commuted were turned down, and ended vigils in Manila where supporters of the trio had prayed for a miracle.

"Our government had taken every available opportunity to appeal to the authorities of China for clemency in their cases," presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda said in a statement.

"In the end, however, the sentences were imposed."

He said the three -- Ramon Credo, 42, Sally Villanueva, 32, and Elizabeth Batain, 38 -- were put to death by lethal injection on Wednesday morning, although the Chinese government did not publicly announce the killings.

The trio were sentenced to death after being arrested in China in 2008 for attempting to smuggle heroin into the country.

In its pleas the Philippine government had insisted the three were gullible victims of crime syndicates who had been duped into becoming drug couriers.

The three were allowed to meet their relatives for an hour before they were executed, in what turned out to be devastatingly emotional encounters.

"She was crying, she was partly incoherent. She had a lot of things to say," said Jason Ordinario, a brother of Villanueva who along with another sister and their parents met her as the final verdict was read in a court in Xiamen city.

"She asked us to take care of her children and make sure they can finish studies," he told DZBB radio from China.

Villanueva's relatives said she did not know that she was due to be executed on Wednesday, and was surprised to see her family there.

"I was the first one to see her, we locked eyes and we both cried. She said what are you doing here, why are you all crying, am I going to die," younger sister Mylene said on DZBB.

"She tried to console us. She said, it's okay. I have accepted my fate. I will be your angel and watch over you."

Villanueva's children, aged 12 and nine, were not able to see or talk with their mother before she was killed. They did not travel to China and local authorities would not allow mobile phones into the meeting room.

Surrounded by a throng of supporters and journalists, Villanueva's relatives in Manila erupted in anguished cries as news of the execution broke.

There were similar reactions at the home of Credo, but the family of Batain had requested privacy and no media were with them.

Outside the Villanueva home in a northern Manila slum was a poster comparing her to Flor Contemplacion, a Filipina maid whose hanging in Singapore in 1995 led to a cooling of diplomatic ties between the two countries.

Contemplacion was convicted of murder, although it was widely perceived in the Philippines that she was framed.

Her fate remains an infamous tale about the perils faced by the nine million Filipinos working abroad, many of whom face exploitation while toiling away in low-paying jobs hoping to earn enough money to support relatives at home.

Amnesty International criticised Wednesday's executions and accused President Benigno Aquino's government of not doing enough to save the three.

"We strongly condemn the executions of the three Filipinos," Amnesty's Philippine representative, Aurora Parong, told AFP.

"The Philippines should have taken a stronger action, and it is now its moral duty to lead a campaign against death penalty in Asia."

Church leaders, who had asked the public to join them in prayer for a miracle change of heart by Chinese authorities, also expressed anger.

"We had knocked on the doors of heaven to pray for what turned out to be an impossible wish," added Edwin Corros, executive secretary of church's commission for the pastoral care of migrants, told AFP.

"We call on China to abolish death penalty. We believe no one has the right to take a human life."

[Arthur Little]

So the executions have been carried out? :rolleyes: ... I'd been wondering if the trio might've been reprieved, but apparently not!

[joebloggs]

"We call on China to abolish death penalty. We believe no one has the right to take a human life."

does that include drug dealers\smugglers ?

harsh it may seem, they knew the penalty, only themselves to blame :angry:

[Manila_Paul]

If you want to break the law in foreign countries, you must accept the consequences..... and yet we just let them walk :NoNo: Free to deal (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3499088/Judge-lets-off-pusher-with-50k-drug-haul-including-crystal-meth.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News)

I agree on this but on an ethical level, the death penalty for drug smuggling is a way too harsh and cruel punishment. It should be very reserved for only the very worst violent crimes, mainly for murders and some attempted murders (the latter because of modern science only. I think you can now say that in some cases that, where there are clear attempts to kill and science has performed a miracle, these people should swing also)

I respect the Chinese on this though. I don't think you can take the kind of wimpy pathetic middle ground on this that we do. Purely because some of these drugs are so addictive that all reason goes out the window. Light attitudes to possesion don't work. Look at Pete Doherty. How many times was/is that guy up in court for possession? And when he did finally get sent down he was out in weeks. It should either be legalised or you come down hard with long sentences for possession and dealing. Anything in between is surely the worst of both worlds?

[joebloggs]

I agree on this but on an ethical level, the death penalty for drug smuggling is a way too harsh and cruel punishment. It should be very reserved for only the very worst violent crimes, mainly for murders and some attempted murders

:D do you know any drug addicts or families of drug adidcts? their all victims :NoNo:

life for a life :cwm24:

[Manila_Paul]

:D do you know any drug addicts or families of drug adidcts? their all victims :NoNo:

life for a life :cwm24:

Yeah but the addicts have to take some responsibility for that too, in that circumstance. China even seems confused on this because they don't execute all smugglers.

[Tawi2]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110307/wl_asia_afp/philippineshongkongdrugspolitics
Pinas is quite hypocritical to be honest,but at least he FINALLY had the grace to resign,albeit from his cell:NoNo:
As for the mules,desperate people do desperate things,thats a fact.

[joebloggs]

Yeah but the addicts have to take some responsibility for that too, .

i dont believe anyone intends to become a drug addict, as i've posted on here a few times, most of us are products of our surroundings and upbringing.


As for the mules,desperate people do desperate things,thats a fact.

As for the mules,desperate people do stupid things,thats a fact.

they know what they are doing, deseperate or not. :cwm23:

[Terpe]

...........they know what they are doing, deseperate or not. :cwm23:

I wonder if they truely knew.
The media appears to be reporting a different side.

It does not seem logical to me to that if someone had said to them, 'here's packet of drugs smuggle it through customs' that they would actually do it. Or would they?

Especially if they know there is an associated death sentence if caught.

The media say they thought they were going to China for a job, albeit via an illegal recruiter, and were just carrying the needed company papers.

[Terpe]

i dont believe anyone intends to become a drug addict, as i've posted on here a few times, most of us are products of our surroundings and upbringing.

Totally agree with this.
Furthermore it takes a special motivation and support network to get out of the addiction.

[Tawi2]

I wonder if they truely knew.
They most certainly wouldnt be the first naive innocents to be duped,thats a fact:NoNo:

[Manila_Paul]

i dont believe anyone intends to become a drug addict, as i've posted on here a few times, most of us are products of our surroundings and upbringing

Maybe but they do choose to take the drug in the first place. Some responsibility has to be taken. They can't be compared to murder victims.

[gWaPito]

MANILA — Chinese authorities executed three Filipino drug mules on Wednesday, triggering condemnation in the Catholic Philippines and despair for family members who shared their final moments.

The executions came after repeated pleas by the Philippine government for their sentences to be commuted were turned down, and ended vigils in Manila where supporters of the trio had prayed for a miracle.

"Our government had taken every available opportunity to appeal to the authorities of China for clemency in their cases," presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda said in a statement.

"In the end, however, the sentences were imposed."

He said the three -- Ramon Credo, 42, Sally Villanueva, 32, and Elizabeth Batain, 38 -- were put to death by lethal injection on Wednesday morning, although the Chinese government did not publicly announce the killings.

The trio were sentenced to death after being arrested in China in 2008 for attempting to smuggle heroin into the country.

In its pleas the Philippine government had insisted the three were gullible victims of crime syndicates who had been duped into becoming drug couriers.

The three were allowed to meet their relatives for an hour before they were executed, in what turned out to be devastatingly emotional encounters.

"She was crying, she was partly incoherent. She had a lot of things to say," said Jason Ordinario, a brother of Villanueva who along with another sister and their parents met her as the final verdict was read in a court in Xiamen city.

"She asked us to take care of her children and make sure they can finish studies," he told DZBB radio from China.

Villanueva's relatives said she did not know that she was due to be executed on Wednesday, and was surprised to see her family there.

"I was the first one to see her, we locked eyes and we both cried. She said what are you doing here, why are you all crying, am I going to die," younger sister Mylene said on DZBB.

"She tried to console us. She said, it's okay. I have accepted my fate. I will be your angel and watch over you."

Villanueva's children, aged 12 and nine, were not able to see or talk with their mother before she was killed. They did not travel to China and local authorities would not allow mobile phones into the meeting room.

Surrounded by a throng of supporters and journalists, Villanueva's relatives in Manila erupted in anguished cries as news of the execution broke.

There were similar reactions at the home of Credo, but the family of Batain had requested privacy and no media were with them.

Outside the Villanueva home in a northern Manila slum was a poster comparing her to Flor Contemplacion, a Filipina maid whose hanging in Singapore in 1995 led to a cooling of diplomatic ties between the two countries.

Contemplacion was convicted of murder, although it was widely perceived in the Philippines that she was framed.

Her fate remains an infamous tale about the perils faced by the nine million Filipinos working abroad, many of whom face exploitation while toiling away in low-paying jobs hoping to earn enough money to support relatives at home.

Amnesty International criticised Wednesday's executions and accused President Benigno Aquino's government of not doing enough to save the three.

"We strongly condemn the executions of the three Filipinos," Amnesty's Philippine representative, Aurora Parong, told AFP.

"The Philippines should have taken a stronger action, and it is now its moral duty to lead a campaign against death penalty in Asia."

Church leaders, who had asked the public to join them in prayer for a miracle change of heart by Chinese authorities, also expressed anger.

"We had knocked on the doors of heaven to pray for what turned out to be an impossible wish," added Edwin Corros, executive secretary of church's commission for the pastoral care of migrants, told AFP.

"We call on China to abolish death penalty. We believe no one has the right to take a human life."

You do surprise me Keith. I wonder if your children who are in the police force, share your views on soft sentences for drug trafficking?

Just imagine how many lives have been saved just by putting these 3 to bed.

These are murderers, mass murderers of whole families, families of the addicts.

[keithAngel]

Gwap I posted a published article from the Phils without comment you are of course entiytled to your views even if i dont agree with them:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

Maybe but they do choose to take the drug in the first place. Some responsibility has to be taken. They can't be compared to murder victims.

oh yes responsibility has to be taken, someone takes a drug due to peer pressure, curiosity or whatever reason, but someone who is a drug mule, who swallows drugs , hides them in a suitcase etc, knowing these drugs will be sold to people who are, or will be come addicts because of their illegal actions carry more responsibility than the addict, your right the death sentence is wrong, it's too good for them, a life time of hard labor in Serbia will give them time to reflect on the destruction of families and life's they helped to destroy.:angry:

its funny watching immigration programs on tv, none of them are aware of the drugs hidden in their case, someone else always packed their case for them :laugher::crazy:

i cant think of a valid excuse someone who swallows the drugs could have...:rolleyes:

good the Chinese did this maybe the ultimate deterrent, death will make some people think twice or not do it at all

[Arthur Little]

They can't be compared to murder victims.

But they ARE murder victims ... victims of a slowww, :cwm24: lingering death!

[branno]

You do surprise me Keith. I wonder if your children who are in the police force, share your views on soft sentences for drug trafficking?

Just imagine how many lives have been saved just by putting these 3 to bed.

These are murderers, mass murderers of whole families, families of the addicts.

i totally agree ...drugs of any form or substance destroys both yourself and families.. ive even seen drugs prescibed by huge pharmaceutical companies destroy people legally... but .. you can only sue them... tut tut

[Terpe]

.. ive even seen drugs prescibed by huge pharmaceutical companies destroy people legally... but .. you can only sue them... tut tut

branno, you've made the same statement in another thread on the same topic.
Look, I don' want to be picky, but pharmaceutical businesses do not prescribe drugs, that is down to a Doctor. The Doctor makes a choice based on a number of factors, one being legally available.

My point is this, if you have any insider knowledge that suggests that anyone in the supply chain , (manufacturer, NICE, Doctor etc) is doing something that they shouldn't then you need to go public with the facts.

Which prescribed drugs should not be allowed on the UK approved list?

[keithAngel]

the counterfiet ones being made in China for a start course the problem is this makes BIG money and is VERY hard to spot and the drug companies have no idea what to do and dont really want to talk about it

nothing like paradoxes huh

[Jimbojac]

I have had the { mis} fortune of visiting China 3 times and it is a very strange experience, it is a God-less place thats for sure, something sinister seems to pervade the atmosphere.
I saw one poor guy, and admittedly i do not know the crime but he was bound by cable ties in a town square and routinely kicked by cops outside of a temporary Police post set up in the place.
Whilst i hate drugs and the effects they have on all, i believe that we as humans have no rights to take another life, based on the knowledge that even if the accused is maybe 1% not guilty then that is enough to not act on the most barbaric of acts albeit State sanctioned.
Incidentally i saw a report on Chinas record of human rights a number of years ago and 3 facts have haunted me ever since..............
1... The death sentence can be carried out for even trivial crimes.
2... Try this one.... a youngster with mental learning difficulties chased a young girl through a village and lifted her skirt up as a prank, { he had a proven very low mental age} he was a menace to that particular insular little village and yes you guessed it the council got together and he was executed, conveniently to get rid of him.*
3... A once fashionable execution method was to shoot the victim through the head and then get the family to pay for the bullet!
* i believe this happened in the nineties
{ Source Amnesty International}
So, food for thought eh Folks!

[Jimbojac]

oh yes responsibility has to be taken, someone takes a drug due to peer pressure, curiosity or whatever reason, but someone who is a drug mule, who swallows drugs , hides them in a suitcase etc, knowing these drugs will be sold to people who are, or will be come addicts because of their illegal actions carry more responsibility than the addict, your right the death sentence is wrong, it's too good for them, a life time of hard labor in Serbia will give them time to reflect on the destruction of families and life's they helped to destroy.:angry:

its funny watching immigration programs on tv, none of them are aware of the drugs hidden in their case, someone else always packed their case for them :laugher::crazy:

i cant think of a valid excuse someone who swallows the drugs could have...:rolleyes:

good the Chinese did this maybe the ultimate deterrent, death will make some people think twice or not do it at all
Until someone tampers with your case!!?? Has happened yes?

[joebloggs]

not that i know of, when would someone tamper with my case when it is locked... of course its possible, but I think all the ones i've seen on tv, when caught, they claim someone else packed their case :icon_lol:, only ones who could put drugs in my case would be someone at the airport, but then they would have to get the drugs out of my case b4 i picked it up :Erm:

[raynaputi]

one filipina was said to be sent to China for work yet she didn't know what her work would be..:Erm: how could you not wonder why the recruiter would give you this money for a work you didnt know? and why would you let yourself bring a suitcase you didnt know what's inside? just my two cents...:Erm:

[joebloggs]

i think you would have to be :crazy:, to take someone else s suit case, even if the drugs were hidden and you didn't know they were there, you must be suspicious as to why your going and what for:doh ..

[imagine]

i wonder if those that are caught smuggling with a stomach full of filled condoms,,, say i dont know how they got there :laugher::laugher::laugher:

[joebloggs]

i wonder if those that are caught smuggling with a stomach full of filled condoms,,, say i dont know how they got there :laugher::laugher::laugher:

maybe they thought they were those red pinoy sausages made out of worms ?

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqxwONn8-tlbI4UZG4Ymy--BnFum75_csPI5hkUT_LZt3dHmvD3A

:icon_lol:

[imagine]

maybe they thought they were those red pinoy sausages made out of worms ?

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqxwONn8-tlbI4UZG4Ymy--BnFum75_csPI5hkUT_LZt3dHmvD3A



:icon_lol:

worm sausages :omg:

[joebloggs]

worm sausages :omg:

yes my misses use to go to an Asian shop near us that sold pinoy food, she asked for the red sausages that she use to like in the phils, but the guy said he couldn't sell them in the uk because they were partly made of earth worms :icon_lol::cwm24:

[raynaputi]

nooooo...they are made of ground pork...

[joebloggs]

nooooo...they are made of ground pork...

yes :rolleyes:

http://worldnews.freecyberzone.com/alert.htm

[JimOttley]

I have had the { mis} fortune of visiting China 3 times and it is a very strange experience, it is a God-less place thats for sure, something sinister seems to pervade the atmosphere.
I saw one poor guy, and admittedly i do not know the crime but he was bound by cable ties in a town square and routinely kicked by cops outside of a temporary Police post set up in the place.
Whilst i hate drugs and the effects they have on all, i believe that we as humans have no rights to take another life, based on the knowledge that even if the accused is maybe 1% not guilty then that is enough to not act on the most barbaric of acts albeit State sanctioned.
Incidentally i saw a report on Chinas record of human rights a number of years ago and 3 facts have haunted me ever since..............
1... The death sentence can be carried out for even trivial crimes.
2... Try this one.... a youngster with mental learning difficulties chased a young girl through a village and lifted her skirt up as a prank, { he had a proven very low mental age} he was a menace to that particular insular little village and yes you guessed it the council got together and he was executed, conveniently to get rid of him.*
3... A once fashionable execution method was to shoot the victim through the head and then get the family to pay for the bullet!
* i believe this happened in the nineties
{ Source Amnesty International}
So, food for thought eh Folks!

China has a population of 1.5 billion and a family policy of 1 child per family in other words a policy that would reduce the population, 36 % of the population are subject to this one child policy apparently, there are exceptions.

From memory they only had just over a billion when I was growing up 30 odd years ago, so it ain't worked very well.

Life is cheap in China, life is also cheap in the Philippines, harsh penalties deplete the surplus population to paraphrase a very famous British writer.

[bornatbirth]

and also they have more boys than girls :crazy:

[JimOttley]

and also they have more boys than girls :crazy:

Yes indeed BAB I remember that from long ago :)

[bornatbirth]

the ladies can now choose who to marry, taking their pick of the better off men and leaving the rest to....:bigcry:

[branno]

oops may be ive replied to a post in the wrong area.. as u see im not to bright on this sight yet...and ive worded that wrong re, the prescribed drugs by the companies.. ill just give one instance...thalidomide... which became one of the biggest medical tragedies of modern times... but yet this drug is still been prescribed in certain countries this day...

[raynaputi]

and also they have more boys than girls :crazy:

Most Chinese families prefer to have a son rather than daughters..they said:

1. Boys can carry last name on but girls can't and will change.
2. Back then when your girl is married, it is consider someone else's family. Not their original parents' anymore.
3. In poor places, boys can work harder than girls since they are boys. And Boy's early ancestor are hunters.

whew! good thing my Chinese family/relatives aren't that strict! :waver: and most strict Chinese family would still want their kids to marry their own kind/nationality.

[Manila_Paul]

yes :rolleyes:

http://worldnews.freecyberzone.com/alert.htm


Why mix "EARTHWORMS" with my hamburger?
>1. Earthworms are one of natures most complete food sources, so much that they are considered to be an excellent food source for special service operatives of various military forces throughout the world.

>2. Worms are full of calcium, vitamins, roughage and protein which makes them a complete food.
>3. Earthworms have a nice concentration of protein in a little package near 70% percent on a dry weight basis and they are entirely edible and abundant to collect so that's why earthworms are very good meat replacement.
>4. A pound of dried earthworm is 50-60% percent cheaper than quality inspected beef and other meat extenders/fillers.
>5. Earthworms will grow at a much faster rate than on any other animal and abundant of supply.

>6. Earthworms contains chemical substances that makes it addictive.

>7. Powdered earthworms when blended with beef makes no difference, unnoticeably likes exactly 100% pure beef.
>8. Dried earthworm taste and smells exactly like beef if cooked.

Sounds better than the cack they put in McDonalds burgers!

[Manila_Paul]

On druggies, Hitchens sums it up well in the Mail today:


According to the Sentencing Guidelines Council, you can now be found with a bag of dope big enough to pull your arm out of its socket and not be considered a serious criminal. Cue outrage.

But not from me. I do not understand why we treat drug-dealers as wicked, vicious criminals, while treating moronic, self-destructive drug-users as victims. It is users who bring misery to their families by wrecking their mental health. It is users who commit crime to pay for their pleasure. It is users who become a danger to their fellow creatures. If there were no users, there would be no dealers. Yet their numbers grow because possession of cannabis, cocaine and heroin is now effectively legal.

This is a limitlessly stupid and irresponsible policy, and the cause of endless misery and crime. The sooner we realise the extent of the Government’s surrender to drugs, the sooner we may come to our senses and reverse it. But will we?

The senior levels of politics are full of people who have taken drugs, or have friends who take drugs. What would happen if a mid-level Minister were revealed as a recent user of cocaine, or a Cabinet Minister found to have attended a recent party where cocaine was openly snorted?

[joebloggs]

On druggies, Hitchens sums it up well in the Mail today:

If there were no users, there would be no dealers. if there was no dealers there would be no users :doh

while treating moronic, self-destructive drug-users as victims.

http://www.drugscope.org.uk/resources/faqs/faqpages/why-do-young-people-take-drugs.

i wonder if hitchens ever took any drugs :Erm:

[keithAngel]

yes but he didnt swallow:D

[Doc Alan]

...thalidomide... which became one of the biggest medical tragedies of modern times... but yet this drug is still been prescribed in certain countries this day...
Thalidomide was banned worldwide nearly 50 years ago as a sedative preventing morning sickness in pregnancy. It had been found to cause severe birth defects in around 12,000 children in many countries. The drug is indeed used today for very different reasons.
Its effects on the immune system, inflammation and blood vessels means that it is used with other drugs for multiple myeloma ( a bone marrow cancer) in the UK. It may also be used for complications of AIDS and leprosy.
Pregnancy must of course be ruled out for women of child-bearing potential before starting treatment. Men undergoing treatment also need to use condoms if their partner is pregnant or not using effective contraception. In fact drugs should be prescribed in pregnancy only if the benefit to the mother is expected to be greater than the risk to the fetus. No drug is safe beyond doubt in early pregnancy.
Adverse reactions and deaths from such reactions to prescription drugs are very carefully monitored these days. They only account for a third of deaths from drug usage recorded in the UK. Such deaths account for less than 1% of the total in the UK. Smoking causes around 20% and alcohol 2%. It is true that deaths indirectly caused by illegal drug usage and alcohol abuse, such as accidents, violence, and HIV infection, may not be recorded as due to those agents.
As always, I don't sit in judgement, but try to provide facts as accurately as they are known, so members may form their own opinions.

[Manila_Paul]

If there were no users, there would be no dealers. if there was no dealers there would be no users :doh

Not true. Where is the dealer in the situation of people producing for their own personal use? This is how many dealers start out and from where all initial drugs use stems. Whereas if everyone decides not to take or stops taking illegal drugs in the first place, you can't deal to anyone. Demand creates supply, not the other way around. Of course, we're always going to have drugs and drug users but the question is: what is the best approach to managing the situation? I think our approach is pretty crap because in truth, we've got no real conviction with regards to drugs. This idea of users as victims just illustrates the point.


while treating moronic, self-destructive drug-users as victims.

http://www.drugscope.org.uk/resources/faqs/faqpages/why-do-young-people-take-drugs.



Probably some truth in all those reasons but missing a major one perhaps: a criminal justice system that doesn't take possession seriously enough. So the vicious circle just continues for many users. They use, they get caught for possession, they aren't punished harshly (or at all), they continue to use. Whereas in many cases, a long custodial sentence with no access to drugs, may have been a far better bet.

[joebloggs]

Not true. Where is the dealer in the situation of people producing for their own personal use? .

:icon_lol: so how many people produce heroin for their own use, soon as they give it or sell it to someone else their a dealer.


i thought it was easier to get drugs in prison that the outside :doh

[keithAngel]

its no harder that tells us something joe

[Manila_Paul]

:icon_lol: so how many people produce heroin for their own use, soon as they give it or sell it to someone else their a dealer.

Not many but loads of dealers started out producing a bit of cannabis for their own personal use. The same with pills. Ravers were producing it for themselves, then started dealing. Fact remains, we're always going to have drug users, with or without dealers. It doesn't work the other way around. If there was no demand there can be no supply.


i thought it was easier to get drugs in prison that the outside :doh

It's not hard, by all accounts. Just part of the problem. Slap on the wrist or community sentences and then eventually when they send you down, you're still able to get the drugs. It is a case for sorting prisons out, not for not sending people guilty of possessing drugs to prison!

[branno]

the facts are appreciated too doc.

[joebloggs]

its no harder that tells us something joe

whats that keith ? prison is full of drug addicts? oh hang on, not all drug addicts are in prison :doh, maybe those who commit crimes are in prison :doh

[Piamed]

A real pity anyone had to die. Assuming that they had indeed committed their crimes intentionally, the choice was theirs! I hope that other intending mules will reconsider their options. At the end of the day we all have choice. True though, that not everyone is aware of the breadth of choice available to them.

So many suffer as a consequence of abuse, depndency, compulsion, etc. The weight of this suffering cannot be underestimated.

[keithAngel]

whats that keith ? prison is full of drug addicts? oh hang on, not all drug addicts are in prison :doh, maybe those who commit crimes are in prison :doh

It was your point about drugs being very easy to get in prison

Why would that be except that

a) there is big demand

but surely the Prisons are controlled space???

b) the authoraties dont really mean what they say theres a vested interest in keeping the whole thing going hypocrasy smoke and mirrors

[branno]

do wat the dutch do.. grew it ,sell it, ... nice earner for the government... gosh i wonder how much revenue that brings in... :hubbahubba:

[Tawi2]

nice earner for the government
Pinas used to be the worlds 2'nd largest marihuana producing country after Mexico,several years ago a pinoy governmental minister suggested decriminalising grass as a way of earning dollars,his suggestion was given short thrift,your right however Hollands soft marijuana policy does bring large numbers of tourists into the country and cash into the dutch coffers,look at the plane-loads of americans who descend upon the city during the 420 or Cannabis cup.:cwm24:

[Doc Alan]

The annual tax revenue from alcohol and smoking in the UK is approximately 18 bn GBP, and the cost to the NHS of treating the illnesses they cause around 8 bn GBP.
York University has estimated the cost of illegal drug abuse to UK society - including crime and NHS - up to 18.8 bn - obviously with no tax revenue.

[gWaPito]

oops may be ive replied to a post in the wrong area.. as u see im not to bright on this sight yet...and ive worded that wrong re, the prescribed drugs by the companies.. ill just give one instance...thalidomide... which became one of the biggest medical tragedies of modern times... but yet this drug is still been prescribed in certain countries this day...

My mother was offered Thalidomide while she was carrying me. She never took up the offer.

My friend Leo was not so fortunate, his mum did which caused him to contract polio.

[keithAngel]

The annual tax revenue from alcohol and smoking in the UK is approximately 18 bn GBP, and the cost to the NHS of treating the illnesses they cause around 8 bn GBP.
York University has estimated the cost of illegal drug abuse to UK society - including crime and NHS - up to 18.8 bn - obviously with no tax revenue.

Interesting stats Doc of course re Booze there is a huge crime associated figuer in there some where criminal damage,asaults on third parties etc as well as revenues conected with employment in leisure industries etc fixed penalty fines

The "skunk trade" is more and more grown in the UK where the money generated also finds its way back into the economy as well as asset seizures by law enforcement ,its a complex subject and desrves more research:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Walaytawo]

It always astounds me that drugs crimes have such high penalties in many countries, yet pedophiles and rapists receive such short sentences in comparison. Of course, there's always the argument about how many lives are ruined through drugs, but nobody questions CIA drug running and how opium production has increased since the allied occupation in Afghanistan :rolleyes:

[Doc Alan]

My mother was offered Thalidomide while she was carrying me. She never took up the offer.

My friend Leo was not so fortunate, his mum did which caused him to contract polio.
It was lucky your Mum did not take thalidomide :xxgrinning--00xx3:. You might like to read my post on it. One birth defect caused by thalidomide was phocomelia ( shortened limbs), but there are also other causes.
I'm sorry to know about your friend Leo. However, polio is caused by a virus. Have a look at my thread "Good news about polio" in the "Travel, Tips and Advice" section. No drug causes polio and there is no drug to treat it. Thankfully the vaccine has ensured that Europe and the Philippines have been polio free for about a decade :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[KeithD]

It was lucky your Mum did not take

Going by some of his posts I think she did but never told him :icon_lol: :xxparty-smiley-004: :Bolt:

[scott&ligaya]

Going by some of his posts I think she did but never told him :icon_lol: :xxparty-smiley-004: :Bolt:

hmmmmm, come on Boss, your humour is usually of a higher quality, bit playgroundish and offenive in my opinion. :xxaction-smiley-047:xxaction-smiley-047

[Tawi2]

The "skunk trade" is more and more grown in the UK where the money generated also finds its way back into the economy as well as asset seizures by law enforcement ,its a complex subject and desrves more research
At the upper end of the hydro industry are the viets,exactly the same way they dominated the canadian scene back in the late 80's early 90's they are now heading the UK scene,the profits are laundered,often through the nail-bar industries and restaurants,then sent back to S/E Asia,the chinese are also now getting into the canna-business because of the massive amounts of profits generated by even a single house.

[Tawi2]

I think 90% of weed in the UK is now grown there:Erm:

[Walaytawo]

Yes, but a lot of it's nowhere near as strong as the imported gear... so I hear.

[branno]

the opium wars spring to mind.... ..another lucrative earner for the british crown :)

[jerry46]

It really is a shame. A lot of these people are working for somebody else and they have to take the punishment.

[Tawi2]

a lot of it's nowhere near as strong as the imported gear
Exactly the same to be honest,the genetics are within the seed,man replicates the environment with light,extraction,growing medium etc, gas chromatography tests show cannabinoid levels in UK and european grown plants are equally as high as anywhere else in the world.

[Walaytawo]

Exactly the same to be honest,the genetics are within the seed,man replicates the environment with light,extraction,growing medium etc, gas chromatography tests show cannabinoid levels in UK and european grown plants are equally as high as anywhere else in the world.

Some yes, no doubt, which seems to be getting sold for a little more. But there's definitely a strain going round which isn't as strong, not what you'd call skunk. It's slightly darker and damper.