VERY BAD NEWS > Fiance Visa REFUSED...

[New Shoes]

I recieved the news today that my gf's Fiance Visa application has been refused.
We are both very very disappointed as you can imagine.

I had thought I had been meticulus is the preparation of the documents required. But it looks like I screwed up on the wedding plans.

Here is the decision as given by the ECO.
Please read it and I would be very very grateful for any advice and assistance....

"You propose to travel to the UK to marry your partner. You have not seen your partner for more than a year. I am aware that the law relating to marriage in England and Wales does not allow for any arrangements to be made with a Registrar until the foreign national has arrived in the UK. Even at that, of itself, a booking at a Register Office or church is not proof that a marriage will take place. You have shown no tentative plans or bookings to marry in the UK. You claim to be in a relationship for nearly two years now. It would be reasonable for me to expect to see some evidence needs to be satisfied that it is intended that a marriage in the UK will take place."

So the provisional booking at my local Register Office is not enough of a planned wedding.

The plan originally was a registrar wedding with a simple meal in a local pub or restaurant afterwards

So.....
I need to organise and forward reception bookings / invitations etc.

This seems to be the main reason for the visa refusal. I cannot change the fact that it's been over a year since we physically met.

If I get these invites / bookings done do I send these to my gf or can these go to the ECO directly?

Can someone explain the appeals process. She has emailed copies of the appeal forms and they seem to indicate that any appeal has to be posted / faxced to the First-tier Tribunal (immigration and Asylum Chamber) in Loughborough.

I understand the decision, so I'm not technically disagreeing with the decision, I just need to include more documents (the wedding reception invites etc).

What should I do?.........

Sorry for the ramble, I'm in a bit of state as I type this....

Many thanks for any assistance.......

Dave

[grahamw48]

Sorry to hear of your predicament.

Why don't you get married in the Phils ?

It cost me probably less than a tenner, and the Mrs. was on the plane to England with me within a couple of weeks. Job done.

[joebloggs]

:NoNo::cwm24:

Intervening Devotion If the applicant and sponsor have been separated for a lengthy period of time before the application is submitted (for example, longer than 3 or 4 months), then evidence of intervening devotion should be included. This would normally take the form of telephone records or other forms of electronic communication. If the couple have lived separately for a longer period, travel receipts can be used to show that contact has been continual and proportionate.

If a prolonged separation is the result of mobility issues (which would include military duties or other foreign assignments), this would take the form of assignment letters or similar documentation.

When submitting email or instant messenger logs, it is important to bear in mind that intervening devotion means evidence of contact and not an exhaustive transcript of each on-line session.

are there any other reasons why you were refused ?

if youcan get any evidence of your planned wedding, send it or scan it and email it to your g/f and write a letter to the ECO manager asking for reconsideration, and hopefully it will be overturned..

if not then appeal in the phils, i think it would be quicker..


bit of a catch 22, you cant get good evidence that the wedding will take place, and if you do, they might not accept it anyway :crazy:, qoute/bill for a cake, wedding dress, invites, from the pub etc..
sorry have to get back to work now

[bornatbirth]

hi new shoes, im sorry to hear that the visa was refused.

im thinking the last time you both saw each other is a issue too and the contact you have had dosent seem enough :Erm:

getting bills etc to show that some plans for the wedding exist may help but can i ask what contact you both have had in the 2 years you have been together?.

anyway i know its bad news but im sure it will work out :xxgrinning--00xx3::D

[stevie c]

Sorry to hear of your predicament.

Why don't you get married in the Phils ?

It cost me probably less than a tenner, and the Mrs. was on the plane to England with me within a couple of weeks. Job done.

I agree with graham why don't you get married in the phils i got married on the 27Th September 2010 & my wife florsel arrived in the uk with a spouse visa on the 9Th November 2010 no hassle quick & straight forward :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[KeithD]

You should be able to have this overturned just by supplying the additional information for proof of a relationship and plans to marry.

You can get a letter from the registry office (sometimes a 'donation' can help ;)), a quote from the restaurant with the planned date on it. Copies of conversations with the other half about wedding plans. Chat logs and phone bills, etc. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[imagine]

sorry to hear your visa refused new shoes, good luck with your apeal,wether you apply here on in the phills, im sure you can turn it around, if it was me i would go to phill and marry there , 2 birds with one stone, you visit your lady plus you marry her, then how can they refuse, :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[New Shoes]

Hi guys, thanks for the support. Much appreciated!!

A bit more info .........

We first met each other March 2009 spent 5 days together, next occasion was Feb 2010 spent 4 weeks together. Since March 2009 we have been in contact weekly via YM video chats and email (all logs and emails have been submitted) as were photos, phone bills etc.

Having re-read the refusal letter, it seems that the ECO feels that we have not met the requirements of paragraph 290 (iii) which is "each of the parties intends to live permanently with each other as his or her spouse......"

I've already submitted the provisional booking date/time letter for the wedding from the local Register Office.

I think the ECO needs to see wedding arrangements such as invites, reception bookings, cake quotes etc.

As it's going to be a small, simple affair, I don't have these, but I'll have to get them.

[KeithD]

I think the ECO needs to see wedding arrangements such as invites, reception bookings, cake quotes etc.



You shouldn't need them. Did you supply enough information on recent communications?

[New Shoes]

Win2Win,

Yes, we submitted almost weekly YM chat logs and emails since March 2009 until application was submitted 4 weeks ago.

In the refusal letter, the ECO acknowledges that a wedding booking at a Registry Office is no proof that the wedding will actually take place. We submitted the provisional wedding booking form as sent by my local Register Office.

The ECO goes on to state "You have shown no tentative plans or bookings to marry in the UK"

So this makes me think that apart from the provisional booking form given by the local Registry Office which I've already submitted, we need to submit wedding reception booking, wedding invitation, cake quote etc.

What do you think?

Everything else appears to be in order as the ECO states "no tentative plans or bookings to marry in the UK"

[keithAngel]

My gut feeling says on the face of what you wrote I would be complaining technicaly however you may not have included enough info as to the small scale easy to arrange wedding in the UK no mention is made of lack of contact info and you sort of suggest once a week.

You visited twice total 4 weeks and 5 days in two years perhaps thats an unspoken thought dressed as something else by the eco get on it and demonstrate your serious and deserve the visa your fiance might explain its the guy that does the wedding planning ,in the UK as she is in Fils:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[New Shoes]

I think it's definitely the lack of supporting evidence of the intended small-scale wedding.

As I've mentioned previously, we have submitted the letter from the local Register Office, confirming a provisional wedding booking showing the date and time.

It seems that the ECO feels that we have not met the requirements of UK Immigration Rules, paragraph 290 (iii) which is "each of the parties intends to live permanently with each other as his or her spouse......"

Other than sending additional proof comprising of reception booking, cake quote, invites done what else can I do?

[aposhark]

I echo what the others have said regarding going over to the Phils to get married.

Lots more fun and she will be with her family, much cheaper too :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Lots of lechon baboy and all sorts of other goodies.

If not, submit what you think is required to overturn the decision.

Best of luck.

[RuBiX]

Hello there!! I'm sorry about the refusal of your fiancee.
As far as I can remember, my husband just send me a provisional booking from the registry office and there were no
wedding reception booking, wedding invitation, cake quote etc. and they granted me the fiancee visa way back 2009. I think it all depends to the case worker /ECO who handled the application.

Did your fiancee took the English test already?
Mind you my husband visited me three times in Philippines
and took a lot of photos for the application..I also printed the chat logs and skype photos.

I really don't know why they refused your application as to you've been meticulous in preparing for the documents.
How about just phone them and ask where did you go wrong and what else is to be proven that you're both genuine..

Anyhow, good luck for the appeal or better yet just get married in Philippines in that your soon to be wife can work directly that if she wants to.

Good luck and I hope everything will be alright in your application soon:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[RuBiX]

I echo what the others have said regarding going over to the Phils to get married.

Lots more fun and she will be with her family, much cheaper too :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Lots of lechon baboy and all sorts of other goodies.

If not, submit what you think is required to overturn the decision.

Best of luck.

Yes I bet it's fun. I also hope to have a 2nd wedding in Philippines. I miss lechon baboy:D and of course my family and friends.:)I hope to have a beach wedding:rolleyes::D
We'll see, maybe after so many years and that will be the renewal of vows:D

[alanp]

Hi Dave
I am sorry to hear that the visa has been refused. I really hope you can get it overturned
it has put me and my fiancee in a panic as we have just filled our fiancee visa and like you i have been unable to visit her for over a year and when i tried to get a provisonal booking at a Register office I was told that they would not do that.
good luck to you and your fiancee
Alan

[New Shoes]

Thanks again for the replies, all very much appreciated.

Looking at paragragh 290 of the UK Immigration Law which is what we've been scored against..... it's made up of 7 parts, we got 6 out of the seven.

1) Applicant is seeking to enter UK to marry a person settled in the UK........ PASSED

2) Both parties have met ....... PASSED

3) Each of the parties intends to live permanently with each other as his / her spouse........FAILED

4) Adequate maintenance and accommodation without recourse on public funds until date of marriage......... PASSED

5) Adequate accommodation without recourse on public funds after the marriage ...........PASSED

6) The parties after the marriage will be able to maintain themselves adequately without public funds..........PASSED

7) Applicant has passed the English Language Test at to at least A1 level..............PASSED

[New Shoes]

It's been suggested by a couple of posters above, that prior to making a formal appeal, I write a letter to the ECO Manager at the British Embassy asking if he will reconsider the decision and enclose additional documents regarding wedding plans. The manager may reverse the decision.

So......... within the next few days I'm going to get provisional/confirmed bookings for the wedding meal at a bar/restaurant, flowers, cake and invitations.

BIG favour to ask now........ Is there anyone who is good at wording a suitable letter to the ECO Manager and would be willing to help me draft an appropriate letter?

If so, could you PM your email address and I'll contact you....... many many thanks.

(BTW it's been 12 hours since I got the bad news and I'm still feeling shocked, disbelief, numb, sick in my stomach) Not a good day.

[steve monty]

hi there New shoes,

I'm sorry to hear your bad news, I hope you can get it rectified in your appeal. I hope you don't mind me asking, but why you not intend to live permanently with each other? Is your future wife going back to the Philippines after the wedding? Are you going to live in separate houses in the UK? Why do you feel you can not meet this requirement? Sorry to ask this, Just trying to get a greater understanding.

[axis22]

Hi New Shoes,

Sorry to hear about your refusal.

Im thinking that it has to be harder to get a fiance visa than a spouse visa as you are not already married so your application has to be even more convincing.

I think the fact that you havent met for over a year is important as are the reasons why this is.You dont say in your posts but the officer may be thinking that if its for financial reasons than how will you support your future wife?

Also evidence of contact "nearly every week" I don't think is enough. This part of the evidence of relationship would have to be pretty strong to overcome other percieved weaknesses in your application,i think you will have to do more for example 2-3 times a week minimum.Just my opinion.

I think a lot depends on the reasons for your not seeing each other for more than a year and the explanation of this that you gave in your application.

But dont be discouraged im sure you will get your visa as we did and many others on the board.:)

Good luck

david and rose:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[New Shoes]

Steve .. We do want to live permanently together, it's the ECO who feels we have failed on this requirement

Axis22 .. Maybe the fact we last met just over a year ago has something to do with the decision, I don't know.
I have printed out all of our weekly emails and web chats, I didn't submit everyone, but almost. You could see a regular pattern of contact.

[joebloggs]

dave it would probably be best if you got a letter professionally written,

scouser khan should do a good job, he knows his :censored: , thou not sure what he would charge, but it could save you money,time and heartache , but give him a call and see what he says

http://www.davieskhan.co.uk/page/home/lang/english/

[New Shoes]

Thanks for the link joebloggs.
I'll contact him today

Again, many thanks for the help.....

[New Shoes]

Bugger! Davies & Khan office is closed for annual holidays until 19th April...........

[keithAngel]

Whats the reason for "weekly chat logs" why that frequency?

[Arthur Little]

Bugger! Davies & Khan office is closed for annual holidays until 19th April...........

... that being the case, Dave ... why bother with an intermediary? :rolleyes: Time being of the essence in trying to get the ECO's decision overturned by his/her boss, I've sent you a Private Message with a [suggested] draft letter for consideration. You've nothing to lose :NoNo: - and, hopefully, plenty to gain - so let's go for it! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

Bugger! Davies & Khan office is closed for annual holidays until 19th April...........

:doh



... that being the case, Dave ... why bother with an intermediary? :rolleyes: Time being of the essence in trying to get the ECO's decision overturned by his/her boss, I've sent you a Private Message with a [suggested] draft letter for consideration. You've nothing to lose :NoNo: - and, hopefully, plenty to gain - so let's go for it! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[New Shoes]

KeithAngel >>The weekly chat logs were the YM web cam chat log archives. We always chat each Saturday and Sunday for a couple of hours. I didn't submit every week's chat, but a vast majority. I also only included the first page showing date and time, this was to show the frequency of our contact.

Arthur >> I've replied to you PM, many thanks for your help

Jorbloggs >> This afternoon I've been writing a draft letter. I'm going to add a few more things and then post it here for you guys to take a look and comment on......

Thanks again everyone!
Dave

[keithAngel]

I just wondered if the eco saw a minimum pattern and jumped to 2+2 = 6 my chatscand text are much more random and frequent

[New Shoes]

The weekly frequency (ie Saturdays and Sundays) had also to do with the time difference and me working the standard 9 to 5.

This wasn't mentions in the reason for refusal, but who knows?????

[New Shoes]

OK guys,

Here is a draft I did this afternoon. I have missed out ref numbers etc, it's just the main body of the letter.
I've tried to be factual, cool and respectful.

Let me know what you think.......
V
V
V
I am writing to you in my capacity as Miss XXX’s partner and also as her visa sponsor. She recently submitted a fiancé visa application, which unfortunately has been declined. Please find attached a copy of the attached Notice of Immigration Decision.

The reason for the refusal was stated as being that the application did not meet the requirements of UK Immigration Rules paragraph 209 (iii) which reads; each of the parties intends to live permanently with each other as his or her spouse or civil partner after the marriage or civil partnership.

As part of the visa application, we enclosed the notice of the provisional booking of the wedding showing date and time of the ceremony as provided by my local Register Office in the UK. As the wedding ceremony is intended to by a simple affair with only my parents and close friends in attendance, I did not obtain provisional or confirmed bookings for the wedding meal at a restaurant, wedding flowers and cake.

I have now obtained these booking receipts and have enclosed them with this letter.

The reason for writing to you is to respectfully request if you could possibly consider a review of the application in regard to these additional documents, and in particular, reconsider the decision.

Miss XXXX and myself are at a stage in life, both being in our mid forties, where we have both been lucky enough to find someone again with whom we have a meaningful and loving connection and relationship with. I hope we can be given the opportunity to be allowed to spend our lives together.

As an aside, being a XXXXXX with XXXXX County Council’s XXXX Services Department, it certainly is not in my interests to break any laws, least of all immigration laws.

I hope that this letter and the enclosed documents showing proposed arrangements will meet with your approval and form a suitable basis to enable a re-evaluation of the visa application.

[keithAngel]

OK guys,

I am writing to you as Miss XXX’s partner and also as her visa sponsor. She recently submitted a fiancé visa application, which has been declined. Please find attached a copy of the attached Notice of Immigration Decision.

The reason for the refusal was stated as being that the application did not meet the requirements of UK Immigration Rules paragraph 209 (iii) which reads; each of the parties intends to live permanently with each other as his or her spouse or civil partner after the marriage or civil partnership.

As part of the visa application, we enclosed the notice of the provisional booking of the wedding showing date and time of the ceremony as provided by my local Register Office in the UK. As the wedding ceremony is intended to by a simple affair with only my parents and close friends in attendance, I did not obtain provisional or confirmed bookings for the wedding meal at a restaurant, wedding flowers and cake.

I have now obtained these booking receipts and have enclosed them with this letter.

I respectfully request that you review your refusal of the application with regard to these additional documents, and return a favourable decision.

Miss XXXX and myself are at a stage in life, both being in our mid forties, where we have both been lucky enough to find someone again with whom we have a meaningful and loving connection and relationship with and we both wish to be given the opportunity to Marry and be allowed to spend our lives together.

As an aside, being a XXXXXX with XXXXX County Council’s XXXX Services Department, it certainly is not in my interests to break any laws, least of all immigration laws.

I hope that this letter and the enclosed documents showing proposed arrangements will meet with your approval and form a suitable basis to enable a sucsessful re-evaluation of the visa application.

Ive tweaked it a bit for your consideration polite but firm they work for you:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[New Shoes]

Thanks Keith....

BTW, once the letter is completed and I have the additional receipts, my plan is to sent the letter and photocopies of the receipts by courier directly to the Entry Clearance Manager at the Brit Embassy in Manila (the actual appeal info says don't send originals with the appeal).

A copy of the letter and the original receipts I'm going to send to my gf.

What do you think about that? Or should I send originals to the EC Manager....... might be a better idea?????

[keithAngel]

Well you can scan them into your pc i guess and get further originals if required

We are just talking about confirmations from resturants wedding cake makers etc right?

If the eco wants to contact any as long as they confirm u should hopefu;lly be alright

If any of your text chats talk about your joint desire to live together etc i would resend highlighted if its a test of commitment you are just pointing out they got it wrong Good Luck:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[keithAngel]

Well you can scan them into your pc i guess and get further originals if required

We are just talking about confirmations from resturants wedding cake makers etc right?

If the eco wants to contact any as long as they confirm u should hopefu;lly be alright

If any of your text chats talk about your joint desire to live together etc i would resend highlighted if its a test of commitment you are just pointing out they got it wrong Good Luck:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[New Shoes]

Thanks for the info, I'll have a look at our web chat logs abnd print off any that mention marriage / living together.

Hopefully I'll be able to get the provisional bookng receipts today...........

[New Shoes]

Well, I've got a few things sorted, quote for the flowers, confirmation of boking at a restaurant (all on letter head paper). I'll be getting a quote for a cake on Friday.

I've been trailing through our YM chat log archive and ahve been printing off screen shots of us talking about marriage / having a future together. (Initially I'd just printed off the first6 page of our chats to show the frequency on contact).

I'm going to send these additional documents along with the letter to the Entry Clearance Manager using a parcel / document courier.......

[keithAngel]

Go for it We all wish you both the best:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[New Shoes]

OK, so I've got my additional documents ready.

Is the Entry Clearance Manager at the British Embassy? At this address:-

British Embassy Manila
120 Upper McKinley Road
McKinley Hill
Taguig City 1634

I'm going to arrange courier collection for tomorrow if possible......

BTW< My girlfriend gave the VAC two folders one will all the photo copies inside and one with the originals inside. She has had the folder containing the originals returned to her. Am I correct in thinking that British Embassy will be keeping the photocopy folder stored for their records?

So when the Entry Clearance Manager gets my letter and additional documents, he my cross reference to the other folder?

[fhara]

im sorry to hear that but if u think u have more evidence and sure that they made a wrong decision then try to make an appeal or if not think its better you go to phils and get married there...good luck! :)

[keithAngel]

cant answer that ring them or email:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[New Shoes]

Well, letter to the Entry Clearance Manager and additional documents comprising of quotes for flowers, cake, confirmatin of restaurant table booking and about 7 or 8 Yahoo Messenger chat logs from several different months showing my and my gf talking about marriage in the UK and our life after being married........ all ready to be collected by courier.

Fingers crossed this will be enough to convince the ECM to reverse the decision.....

[grahamw48]

Best of luck. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

If worse comes to worst, there's always your local MP.

[PAT]

Sorry to hear about this....| cant still think why they refused your girlfriend application coz you did the same thing as we did before.I hope your appeal be a success....well it will be...

[New Shoes]

Well.......

According to the tracking, my letter and additional supporting documents are now at the DHL facility in Manila. Hopefully they'll be delivered to the embassy tomorrow.

The letter addresses the issue the ECO had with not believing that a wedding will take place if my gf was granted a visa. It is also requesting a review of the ECO's decision by the EC Manager. I've also enclosed provisional/confirmed bookings for flowers, cake and restaurant and also YM chat logs showing us chattting about marriage and life together after marriage.

I'm not sure whether I should send the Entry Clearance Manager an email indicating what documents my gf and I had submitted to meet the 10 sections of the visa checklist.

I'm not sure if this would be of any benefit as I would've thought that the visa application file will state which sections had appropriate documentation submitted. Also the embassy or VAC still have our folder will the documents and photocopies where necessary. This could be used for reference/double checking

I don't want to muddy the water......

What do you guys think?

[Terpe]

.................I don't want to muddy the water......

What do you guys think?

New Shoes, this can only be your own decision.
Nobody else can say.

When it was me (in 2002) with ECO issues, I decided to 'muddy the waters' as much as I could. Simply because I really thought the ECO was completely and totally wrong at that time. I could not let it go so I did everything and whatever to make my point.
Of course I was really worried that I had ruined the chances. But I just felt so strongly we were right and the ECO was wrong.

New Shoes search your own heart and your own evidence. Plenty of people demand reconsiderations and appeals and WIN.

Sincere best wishes mate, no genuine couple deserve poor judgement.

[grahamw48]

They DO retain the original documents you submitted. :)

[keithAngel]

Yo give em hell New Shoes they were wrong

[New Shoes]

The embassy reveived the letter and additional documents on Monday morning. I got an email from the embassy's Correspondecs Team stating...

" Thank you for your letter and fax which was received on 18 April, on your request to consider the application of Ms. XXXXXX.

This has been forwarded to the Entry Clearance Manager for their review and decision."

So, it's just a matter of waiting, hoping and praying we get the original decision reversed

[jen28]

will include u and ur fiance in my prayers. best of luck! i'm sure they will approve the visa of ur fiance. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Ladybug_sim]

It is a sad thing to hear but always remember that trials in life are always there just make strong and go on... We hope and prayed that your appeals be succeed.

Best wishes and good luck New Shoes :xxgrinning--00xx3:
ladybug and sim11uk

[stevie c]

Good luck new shoes I'm sure the decision will be reversed :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[New Shoes]

Thanks for the support everyone, I appreciate it.

Steve: I sure hope so!!

[Arthur Little]

Once again ... MY very best wishes that all the effort you've put into having the previous decision overturned will soon bear fruit. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[madmitch537]

hi sorry to hear your bad news i had a similar experience but for other reasons the appeals system i think gave 30 days we did consult an attorny in manillla who the embassy advised who seemed to know her stuff frustratingly we cldnt resolve our issue within the 30days or after paying a fee to extend it another 30days end of the line there so we have to start afresh
as it costs so much its very frustrating let alone the dissapointment
the appeals form we had did have the same address and info to where it should be sent but we never got that far
i was always led to believe proof of regular contact proof of financial help was what was needed to support visa application not proof of wedding plans i would like advice too as we are about to submit a fresh application we are unlikely to marry here in uk but in phils at later date so any advice from previous experience would be great
the best of wishes and luck to you and again sorry to hear of your situation
regards mark

[grahamw48]

I think it's best to marry in the Phils first.

They certainly know you've met her then. :D

After that, finances, job and accomo.

[Howerd]

I have read this thread a few times now; here are my thoughts...

The ECO seems to be giving two reasons for refusal. The first is that you have not provided any evidence of provisional wedding plans and the second is that you have no intention of living together after marriage.

If you did provide evidence of provisional wedding plans I would suggest that the ECO failed to see such evidence in your submitted documents; maybe you forgot to include the evidence or it got lost somewhere, or the ECO did not look very carefully? It is a pity that you did not apparently include another copy of the provisional arrangements with the registrar, when you asked for re-consideration of your case.

Strangely, the immigration rules do not (as far as I can see) put any onus on the applicant to prove any intent to get married, other than making an application for a fiancée visa. The applicant does have to have an intent to live with their spouse permanently after marriage, so, I guess, the ECO should look for evidence of an intention to live together, but how can you gather such evidence?

Certainly, if you got married in the Philippines you would overcome the first hurdle of proving an intention to marry as you would already be married! You would also be with your wife for some time much nearer a date for an application for a spouse visa, certainly a lot less than one year, and that should assist any application for a spouse visa.

With a Filipino marriage certificate in your pocket, you would then only have to convince the registrar of an intention to live together permanently. Maybe there are a few ways of doing that (though not all of them may be applicable in your case)

1. Your wife could apply for jobs in the vicinity of where you live, before making any spouse visa application - maybe even getting work with the same company your work for.

2. If your wife is bringing any children to the UK, you could provide evidence of, for example, written enquiries to local schools for the child's placement.

3. Setting up a joint bank account - this is possible with some banks - before your partner comes to the UK.

4. Writing a Will, that details how your estate will be managed should you die before your wife has leave to enter the UK.

5. Putting your house into joint names – although this may be very problematic if there is still a mortgage on the property.


I am in a similar position to you and, having read your story, it makes me think that getting married in the Philippines is really the best option.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to prove an intention to live together, I would love to hear!

[madmitch537]

hi
im no expert but although my girls visa application was refused august last yr due to another issue they would of excepted the application if the relevant papers where obtained but sadly it wasnt long enough 30days being the appeal period so we are applying again now
but we never submitted any proof or a pending wedding so i find it strange why you need this kind of info as none of this information provided is legally binding for something that has not taken place yet
do you or can you get a photo copy of the original application form ???
just to check how it was filled in
who filled it in your lady or a third party?/?
was it submitted to the relavant agency directly or posted securely by her ???
as i think ive read correctly from other members it seems that proof of a pending wedding is not needed
samples of contact are needed with internet being the easiest method then its easy to produce via a printer
proof of money sent is also usefull i believe
and also the cost rose dramatically last yr when the tories took over in an attempt to poss deter bogus applications and remember its now policy to restrict entry im sure they do this with any minor discrepancy as they keep your money and still no visa
the whole process is not exactly advertised it seems it is deliberately made difficult to get the right info regarding applying for any visa
the process seems like a good money spinner to me i wonder how many applications get the visa first time now im sure users on this site would like to know numbers
good luck with your application regards mark

[madmitch537]

my advice to any one making any application make a copy of each page for future ref if possible consult advice although every application is going to vary in there circumstancies the onus is upon the applicant filling the form clearly and accurately the many stories i have heard clearly demonstrate these people wont just give you a call to clarify info it will be rejected its policy to do so
remember no refunds are given which i personally think is very wrong esp at todays prices i could understand keeping part of the payment for the processing but not all
how do others feel about it
best wishes regards mark

[madmitch537]

I think it's best to marry in the Phils first.

They certainly know you've met her then. :D

After that, finances, job and accomo.

hi
i was always led to believe that your wife or fiancee on a visa could not work in the uk the visa was valid for 6months only after a continuous marriage of three yrs then she could be able to be granted the next stage to remain in the uk and work etc
any advice or experiences would be great to hear
the visa system is the most daunting thing that really worries me in all this has it put others off going through this process
best wishes mark

[madmitch537]

lastly id like to ask how others overcome the visa barrier
i was not keen to apply the fiancee visa but to use the tourist option both being valid for 6months stay
obv proof of a return flight and sufficient easy to access funds from within the uk being essential to support such a visa
a letter of invitation and a place to stay is also usefull but i dont believe this alone supports that much on a tourist visa
it would give your lady a good insight about living in the uk
if all goes well id prefer to maybe return with your lady get married in the phils then apply the fiancee/spouse visa if she wanted to live with you in the uk
anyone tried it this way?
how did they get on ?
comments much appreciated as im sure the visa process whatever path you take is prob the biggest obsticle/barrier between a couple
regards mark

[joebloggs]

a return ticket might help, but its not enough to prove you'll return b4 your visa expires, it can be cancelled etc.

[Howerd]

hi
i was always led to believe that your wife or fiancee on a visa could not work in the uk the visa was valid for 6months only after a continuous marriage of three yrs then she could be able to be granted the next stage to remain in the uk and work etc

If your wife came to the UK she could work immediately.

If your fiancee came to the UK she could work as soon as she obtained FLR(M) after getting married.

[grahamw48]

Correct.

When couples fill out their applications it is well to bear in mind WHY the authorities are being 'obstructive'.

They are trying to filter out the 'arranged marriage' cases, the 'people trafficking' cases, the cheap labour cases and the perves hoping to bring young ladies over for 'tourist visits' and then send them packing. Some sort of sex lending library.

Unfortunately the scumbags of this world do make life difficult for the genuine applicants, but if you're sitting in your ECO's office, I suppose nit-picking and cynicism is bound to become a habit.

If and when I decide to go through this process again, I'm afraid the young lady will have to be flawless in her background, and in my case records and prevailing circumstances will need to present me as the perfect upright British citizen. :rolleyes:

If only the same rules were applied to some of the irresponsible home-grown scrotes in 'relationships' and pro-creating in this country at taxpayers' expense.

[New Shoes]

OK. Here's a brief update....

The letter I wrote to the Entry Clearance Manager and the additional deocuments (wedding meal confirmation, flowers and cake quotes, YM chat logs showing us discussing marrige/baby etc) have been recieved by the ECM.

Due to the recent bank holidays (which the Brit emabassy in Manila observe), I'm still awaiting any news of the ECM's decision with regard to re-considering the visa refusal.

Also, an official appeal has been submitted to ensure we fell within the 28 days timescale to submit an official appeal.

I'm hoping that the ECM will look at my letter/ additional supporting papers along with the original application folder containing all the other documents and will see that we do indeed intend to get married and live together.


What gets me is that I was meticulous in preparing the application and nowhere does the visa checklist stipulate the requirement of proof of a marriage will take place. They ask for finances, accommodation, employment etc etc but no mention of marriage.

[Terpe]

.........I'm hoping that the ECM will look at my letter/ additional supporting papers along with the original application folder containing all the other documents and will see that we do indeed intend to get married and live together.


What gets me is that I was meticulous in preparing the application and nowhere does the visa checklist stipulate the requirement of proof of a marriage will take place. They ask for finances, accommodation, employment etc etc but no mention of marriage.

Thanks for the update New Shoes. I do hope you secure the best outcome.

Not only for you, but for others who may be reading this thread, there is no definitive requirement by UKBA to evidence proof that marriage will take place. That could not be done.

The ECO needs to feel or believe there is an intention.

From the settlement guide:-
What evidence is required of marriage arrangements?
The ECO needs to be satisfied that it is intended that a marriage in the UK will take place.

The law relating to marriage in England and Wales does not allow for any arrangements to be made with a Registrar until the foreign national has arrived in the UK. Of itself, a booking at a Register Office or church is not proof that a marriage will take place.

The ECO can reasonably expect the couple to have made some tentative plans for the wedding. Any evidence that may be available that wedding arrangements are in hand may help in this respect.

Also look here:-

Residence after arrival in the UK
The timing and nature of a decision regarding residence, who took the initiative and the way in which the decision was reached may be important factors in assessing whether or not the couple intend to live together permanently. The ECO should consider:

If the couple have not discussed and agreed where they will live, if only in the short term, why is this?
If the couple have discussed where they will live; when, how and by whom was the decision taken?
Is the marriage conditional upon the applicant securing admission to the UK?
If the marriage is conditional upon this, who made the condition and why?
If the application is unsuccessful would the sponsor live with the applicant in his/her present country of residence or elsewhere?

And here:-

What evidence is required of 'intention to live together'?
Intention to live permanently with the other means an intention to live together, evidenced by a clear commitment from both parties that they will live together permanently in the UK immediately following the outcome of the application in question or as soon as circumstances permit.

In assessing this part of the Rules it is useful, if possible, to have the views of both parties tested by the ECO. Where both partners are clearly committed to stay together irrespective of whether they live in the UK or not, the intention to live together will be shown. However, if it is clear that the sponsor will not leave the UK to live with the applicant elsewhere should the application for entry clearance be refused, the ECO will need to examine the reasons for this and how this bears on the relationship between the parties.

Also here:-

Tribunal decisions on the intention to live together
In a case considered in the High Court in November 1996 Keen J held that:

"The concept of intention is no doubt a complex one, but it appears to me that one can indeed have a genuine intention, notwithstanding that the carrying out of that intention is dependent on, or could be frustrated by, some extraneous event."

He went on to conclude that the requirement of the Rules relating to the intention of the parties to the marriage could be met where the British citizen (or legally resident foreign national) spouse insisted on remaining in the United Kingdom. In other words, a conditional intention to live together could be sufficient to meet the 'intention to live together permanently' requirement.

Sorry, it's a lot to read but maybe it can help you still.
If not it can surely be useful information to others.

It can be very difficult to convince anyone of 'plans' or 'intentions' but providing evidence of discussions between the parties on such topics is key.

[grahamw48]

Interesting that.

So maybe the fact that I'd already been living with the ex (but girlfriend then) for 9 months in the Phils demonstrated that we just wanted to be together....wherever. :Erm:

I'll bear that in mind for my next application. :)

[New Shoes]

Another update.........

Well, I got email notification from the British Embassy on the 19th April stating that they had received my letter and additional documents (on the 18th) and these had been passed to the ECM for consideration.

Giving that the embassy is closed for Filipino and British public/bank holidays, I calculate that it's now been 19 business/working days since the ECM received my correspondance.

I'm starting to feel rather frustrated that my gf and i have not heard anything since then. I feel that 19 working days is surely adequate time to reconsider the our application.

In the mean time, we have submitted an official appeal (had to be done within 28 days of original visa decision).

Regarding that, I recieved an email stating that the embassy had received the appeal papers and the ECM would look at the appeal papers, including the enclosed additional documents and woulde re-consider our case and the original decision may be reversed without going through the full appeal process.

Again we have heard nothing at all..............

I'm surprised it's taking so long to get a response as I'd read on this site that in similar situations, people had had replies back in about 9 days or so.

We are both feeling totally powerless and in limbo at the moment!!!

[Nick30]

I heard that appeals can take a bit of time. Good luck to you both though. It should be good news as most decisions are overturned on appeal. :)

[New Shoes]

Thanks for the reply, but it's not actually the appeal I'm talking about. I'm aware that appeals take about 6 months to get to the hearing.

Thanks for your support though, cheers!

[Arthur Little]

Giving that the embassy is closed for Filipino and British public/bank holidays, I calculate that it's now been 19 business/working days since the ECM received my correspondance.

I'm surprised it's taking so long to get a response as I'd read on this site that in similar situations, people had had replies back in about 9 days or so.

We are both feeling totally powerless and in limbo at the moment!!!

Apparently a programme of staff training had been underway at the Embassy between May 2nd and 20th ... which probably accounts for the delay. :ReadIt:

[Nick30]

Yes that's maybe what the delay is. Is it a reconsideration New Shoes?

[New Shoes]

Hi Arthur,

So do you think that most of the embassy business has been delayed due to staff training?

My goodness! I think my gf and I are not having much luck with the whole visa process!!!!!

Hopefully now that the staff training is completed we will get a reply soon, and of course that it's good news!

I'll keep you informed of any developments....

[New Shoes]

Yes that's maybe what the delay is. Is it a reconsideration New Shoes?

Yes it is, Nick.
We've been anxiously awaiting a reply.
I'm hoping my letter and some additional documents will do the trick!

Thanks again

[Nick30]

You're welcome mate :) Anytime.

You must be both excited and anxious at the same time.
I'm excited for my girlfriend visiting me soon. Once she lodges the visa application I will be excited and positive that she could be coming. You shouldn't be nevous, you should be positive.

[Arthur Little]

Hi Arthur,

So do you think that most of the embassy business has been delayed due to staff training?

It seems pretty likely, Dave :rolleyes: ... based on reports coming in from other folk who've been waiting longer than what we've [almost] come to expect in recent times.

[New Shoes]

OK, here's another update........

GOOD NEWS!!!! :Jump::Jump:

The British Embassy sent my gf and I the following email. I received it at 5.00am UK time:-

Dear Ms. xxxx

Manila Ref: xxxxx

Please be informed that the decision to refuse your entry clearance has now been overturned by the Entry Clearance Manager. Kindly forward your passport so that we can issue the appropriate visa.

Your must send your passport via courier, to the Embassy within 2 weeks from the date of this email at the following address:

ST xxxxx
Visa Services
British Embassy Manila
120 Upper McKinley Road
McKinley Hill
Taguig City 1634

The wait to hear the response from the ECm to my letter seemed to take forever. It was 28 days working/busines days since I got confirmation my letter had been passed to the ECM.

So............ after an anxious wait we now have the green light to get things moving again.

I'd like to thank everyone who has offered help and support over the last few weeks. Your support has been very much appreciated! Thanks again.

So, it looks like once my gf has her passport/visa returned it's a case of CFO seminar/sticker > flight booked > arrival in UK..........:Jump: :Jump:

[Terpe]

Good job New Shoes, well done and sincere congratulations. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

All good from now on :)

[grahamw48]

Congratulations.:)

Happy days are here again. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

Congratulations to you both, Dave ... onwards and upwards from now on! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

:Jump:
well done getting it overturned :xxgrinning--00xx3:
no need for time wasting appeal :D

[stevie c]

Absolutley fantastic news congratulations to the both of you :Jump:

[steve monty]

Congratulations New Shoes!! You must be the happiest man alive, now you can get on with your life together!! :xxgrinning--00xx3: :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[alanmf1]

Fantastic news New Shoes :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[alanp]

great news New shoes congratulations :xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Nick30]

Many congratulations mate :D

I'm so happy for you.

[New Shoes]

Thanks for the best wishes everyone.
I've been on cloud 9 all day!!!!!

I've got to admit, there were times when I thought it was not going to be.

Thanks again guys!

Dave

[tone]

Very good news mate.
Thank YOU for sharing the experience too its made me look at wedding plans and ensure a number of quotations and wedding details have gone into our submission too. :)
Tone

[Lancashirelad]

OK, here's another update........

GOOD NEWS!!!! :Jump::Jump:

The British Embassy sent my gf and I the following email. I received it at 5.00am UK time:-

Dear Ms. xxxx

Manila Ref: xxxxx

Please be informed that the decision to refuse your entry clearance has now been overturned by the Entry Clearance Manager. Kindly forward your passport so that we can issue the appropriate visa.

Your must send your passport via courier, to the Embassy within 2 weeks from the date of this email at the following address:

ST xxxxx
Visa Services
British Embassy Manila
120 Upper McKinley Road
McKinley Hill
Taguig City 1634

The wait to hear the response from the ECm to my letter seemed to take forever. It was 28 days working/busines days since I got confirmation my letter had been passed to the ECM.

So............ after an anxious wait we now have the green light to get things moving again.

I'd like to thank everyone who has offered help and support over the last few weeks. Your support has been very much appreciated! Thanks again.

So, it looks like once my gf has her passport/visa returned it's a case of CFO seminar/sticker > flight booked > arrival in UK..........:Jump: :Jump:

Congrats really pleased for you! Know how it feels the anxious wait :Cuckoo:

A reminder for your fiancee's CFO that she will need a couple of photos of you both together, that she knows your mothers maiden name,your place of work address and that she has a scanned copy of your birth certificate and passport!:yikes:

[New Shoes]

LancashireLad, Thanks for the reminder for those documents and info! I'll make sure she has all that needs!!

Tone, you're welcome mate! .............or, I guess as they say in the Phils .... walang anuman pare !!

[New Shoes]

Final update for this particular thread........

I received an email today from my gf informing me that she had received her passport and the visa was stuck inside:Jump:
She also sent me a scan showing the visa page........ and I see the shiney new visa in her passport!! :Jump: :Jump: :Jump:

So hopefully pretty soon she going to be here and we're both looking forward to the arrival day!!!

Thanks again for all the support

[scott&ligaya]

wooooo hoooooo anoither happy ending congratulations:Jump::Jump::Jump:

[grahamw48]

Congratulations to you both. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[wrigglybum]

Sorry to hear of your predicament.

Why don't you get married in the Phils ?

It cost me probably less than a tenner, and the Mrs. was on the plane to England with me within a couple of weeks. Job done.

:D good for you graham48,.. why i got charge 15 k peso at pasay city hall:angry:
but it doesnt matter to us that time my hubby just cant wait to see me signing my life away to him as he call it :laugher::laugher:

[joebloggs]

:D good for you graham48,.. why i got charge 15 k peso at pasay city hall:angry:
but it doesnt matter to us that time my hubby just cant wait to see me signing my life away to him as he call it :laugher::laugher:

I'll be cheeky :butthead: wrigglybum, and ask why is your user name wrigglybum :rolleyes:

[wrigglybum]

I'll be cheeky :butthead: wrigglybum, and ask why is your user name wrigglybum :rolleyes:

:omg:lol joebloggs:icon_lol: can i keep it a secret joebloggs :rolleyes:

[sars_notd_virus]

Final update for this particular thread........

I received an email today from my gf informing me that she had received her passport and the visa was stuck inside:Jump:
She also sent me a scan showing the visa page........ and I see the shiney new visa in her passport!! :Jump: :Jump: :Jump:

So hopefully pretty soon she going to be here and we're both looking forward to the arrival day!!!

Thanks again for all the support

Congratulations!! safe trip for your gf !!:):xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

:omg:lol joebloggs:icon_lol: can i keep it a secret joebloggs :rolleyes:

you can't sit still or have worms :D

you better keep it a secret :rolleyes:

[wrigglybum]

you can't sit still or have worms :D

you better keep it a secret :rolleyes:

:laugher::laugher: very funny:laugher::laugher:
your right at cant sit still :D without the worms :cwm3:

[New Shoes]

Thanks again for the nice congratulations comments...... :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[raynaputi]

:Jump: congrats New Shoes! :Jump:

[lastlid]

Hi
I met my filipina wife on the internet in early march this year. We have had contact evrey single day since then (August 3rd now) including visits to the Philippines in April and June. We married in June. We chat using Yahoo Messenger in the main and chat a lot.

My question revolves around the fact that if we printed off the logs from YM for each day then the paprwork would be so colossal that a truck would be needed to deliver it all. One days worth is as much as 30 pages of A4, on occassion. :D


Realistically what is expected to be submitted?

Cheers

Lastlid