barn structures and chicken egg layers.

[branno]

is there any one here that has any knowledge on barn structures for housing egg laying chickens. will be built in the phils so it will be a quite simple structure to house 2000 egg laying chickens.. any info would very much appreciated.

[Tawi2]

lot of battery farm poultry equipment is made in Pinas by firms such as tangcor,might be able to source your cages etc from them.

[branno]

lot of battery farm poultry equipment is made in Pinas by firms such as tangcor,might be able to source your cages etc from them.

cheers tawi, thats a start, i was gona go with a bambo cages to begin with, but if the cages are priced reasonable ill go with that.

[Tawi2]

I have seen plastic battery cages,easy to wash and sterilise,the bamboo ones are going to be far cheaper and easier to replace but not as durable as the plastic ones,6 and 2-3's I guess :)

[bornatbirth]

will they battery farmed or free range?

[branno]

will they battery farmed or free range?

i guess in cages so battery it is ..

[grahamw48]

Probably more money and less work in 90 day meat birds. :)

You've a lot of experienced competition there though, and watch out for thievery and sabotage once you're up and running.

[branno]

Probably more money and less work in 90 day meat birds. :)

You've a lot of experienced competition there though, and watch out for thievery and sabotage once you're up and running.

ohh no ur really putting me off now :icon_lol: but it will be on secure land thats protected and by trusted people.. actually i was looking in to the meat side of it too esp for tanduay .. as they have good deals for good chickens...

[Tawi2]

watch out for thievery
Mate of mine breeds roosters for the sabong game,way out in the sticks,real boonies country at the back of Mt Matutum,he had persistent thefts on a regular basis till he invested in a shotgun and a small flock of guard geese.

[branno]

Mate of mine breeds roosters for the sabong game,way out in the sticks,real boonies country at the back of Mt Matutum,he had persistent thefts on a regular basis till he invested in a shotgun and a small flock of guard geese.

well we do have an uzi and a quality shot gun :icon_lol:

[Terpe]

I concur with others on this one.
Theft is likely to be major issue. Wiped my bro-in-law out.

[Tawi2]

I will tell you one thing pinoys do actually fear.......Large dogs ;) Get yourself a rottie,doberman,or a GSD.

[branno]

I concur with others on this one.
Theft is likely to be major issue. Wiped my bro-in-law out.

may i ask if it was theft of poultry or the eggs or some thing else, i do intend to have on site helpers from trusted people who will sleep n be housed next to the farm, also my partners family are still in their ancestral home which is adjecent to the barn and they are of well respected people.. although in saying this we were advised not to build a home only a few kilometres away due to me been a white foreigner.. the beach plot that we had found was so perfect with live coral and a 150 different species of fish only 1oo mtrs from the shore line in a protected area.. so we decided not to purchase.. shame really..

[branno]

I will tell you one thing pinoys do actually fear.......Large dogs ;) Get yourself a rottie,doberman,or a GSD.

i think tanduay over comes any fear :icon_lol:

[Terpe]

branno, my bro-in-law was not white-guy, but i'll bet plenty knew I was close to him.
Can't say for sure on that.
Anyway, it started off with theft of eggs. Then it ended with theft of birds. Do you believe that. Even though plenty of eggs they stole the birds. Don't know if they were eaten or kept as layers.
Darned annoying I can tell you. Yep the family were well known and respected. (I was told)

So tried again. Maybe 5 or six times we kept at it. Eventually gave up.

[grahamw48]

That's why my business was within the (8 feet high) walls of my property, and nobody else involved.

Guard dogs and security cams etc.

Visitors not encouraged unless spending money. :)

Made a pretty good living and only gave it up because I found out the ex was cheating. :rolleyes:

[branno]

branno, my bro-in-law was not white-guy, but i'll bet plenty knew I was close to him.
Can't say for sure on that.
Anyway, it started off with theft of eggs. Then it ended with theft of birds. Do you believe that. Even though plenty of eggs they stole the birds. Don't know if they were eaten or kept as layers.
Darned annoying I can tell you. Yep the family were well known and respected. (I was told)

So tried again. Maybe 5 or six times we kept at it. Eventually gave up.

cheers terpe. i just keep getting so disheartened. aagghhh

[grahamw48]

Unless you're a seasoned expat with a wife who is more fierce and protective of you than a guard dog, quite honestly I'd stick the money in a building society or property in the UK. :NoNo:

[Terpe]

Unless you're a seasoned expat with a wife who is more fierce and protective of you than a guard dog, quite honestly I'd stick the money in a building society or property in the UK. :NoNo:

The thing is Graham, it's good fun to do such things and it helps keep you busy.
Just so annoying when these things happen.
But you're right, we should have kept the whole thing much more within the property boundaries.

[branno]

That's why my business was within the (8 feet high) walls of my property, and nobody else involved.

Guard dogs and security cams etc.

Visitors not encouraged unless spending money. :)

Made a pretty good living and only gave it up because I found out the ex was cheating. :rolleyes:

ouch sorry to hear that gra.....

[branno]

Unless you're a seasoned expat with a wife who is more fierce and protective of you than a guard dog, quite honestly I'd stick the money in a building society or property in the UK. :NoNo:

nahhh done that n lost too much lol

[grahamw48]

The thing is Graham, it's good fun to do such things and it helps keep you busy.
Just so annoying when these things happen.
But you're right, we should have kept the whole thing much more within the property boundaries.

Not a criticism of anyone particularly...just a bit of general advice. ;)

Yes, I agree it IS great fun seeing if you can do something useful with your time and actually make a living out there.

I enjoyed every minute of it, and I wish I was still there doing the same thing. :)

Not something to sink all your worldly wealth into though, I'd say.

[fred]

Branno..
We have 14 layer chickens here (White leg horns) and I have just started raising 45 day chickens for meat..(Family consumption) I will be able to give you accurate costings from start to finish in 27 days (or so)
Ive had the layers for 18 months and never had anything stolen and neither do I expect that I will in the future.. People are pretty honest around here in Bohol..
When you buy the layer chicks you will have to feed them from 4 to 6 months before they will lay.. You need to then feed them on layer mash which is around 28 Pesos per Kilo.. Medium/large eggs are 6.00/6/50 each.. Im not doing this with business in mind NOR WOULD I!!! (Been there done that) but its nice to be able to produce fresh eggs for the family at a reasonable price..(about 3.50 Pesos each) Chicken muck is dried and then goes into my raised vegetable beds..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/fred42/poultry4.jpg
Each section holds 15 x 45 day old birds.. Im hoping each will weigh at least 2 Kilos but really wishing for 2.5Kilo.. The reason we have four divisions is we are planning to buy 3 day old chicks every 15 days so we have a constant supply of cheap produce..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/fred42/poultry1.jpg
The layers are on the right of the picture (Semi free range?)
The floor is sloped so that the eggs roll to the front for collection..
Food tray is on outside and water tray pipe on far right.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/fred42/poultry2.jpg
45 days cages are different as the food tray is inside and water tray outside.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/fred42/poultry3.jpg
17 days old.

We also will also buy gabeer chicks (not sure of correct spelling).
These are like large English,French hens that can weigh as much as 7/8 Kilos after 4 months I think.. They also lay large brown eggs.. These will all be free range and fed kitchen scraps and cheap hog mash..

Cheers,
Fred.

[branno]

Branno..
We have 14 layer chickens here (White leg horns) and I have just started raising 45 day chickens for meat..(Family consumption) I will be able to give you accurate costings from start to finish in 27 days (or so)
Ive had the layers for 18 months and never had anything stolen and neither do I expect that I will in the future.. People are pretty honest around here in Bohol..
When you buy the layer chicks you will have to feed them from 4 to 6 months before they will lay.. You need to then feed them on layer mash which is around 28 Pesos per Kilo.. Medium/large eggs are 6.00/6/50 each.. Im not doing this with business in mind NOR WOULD I!!! (Been there done that) but its nice to be able to produce fresh eggs for the family at a reasonable price..(about 3.50 Pesos each) Chicken muck is dried and then goes into my raised vegetable beds..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/fred42/poultry4.jpg
Each section holds 15 x 45 day old birds.. Im hoping each will weigh at least 2 Kilos but really wishing for 2.5Kilo.. The reason we have four divisions is we are planning to buy 3 day old chicks every 15 days so we have a constant supply of cheap produce..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/fred42/poultry1.jpg
The layers are on the right of the picture (Semi free range?)
The floor is sloped so that the eggs roll to the front for collection..
Food tray is on outside and water tray pipe on far right.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/fred42/poultry2.jpg
45 days cages are different as the food tray is inside and water tray outside.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/fred42/poultry3.jpg
17 days old.

We also will also buy gabeer chicks (not sure of correct spelling).
These are like large English,French hens that can weigh as much as 7/8 Kilos after 4 months I think.. They also lay large brown eggs.. These will all be free range and fed kitchen scraps and cheap hog mash..

Cheers,
Fred.

cheers for this fred, ive been looking too at various chickens ie red stripe and so on, in particular brown egg layers.. eventually id like to have both brown and white egg layers. and now id even consider some of those gabeer uve mentioned as free range too.

any info you have fred ill really appreciate it. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Walaytawo]

When weighing up the buying/renting options here, being self-sufficient and undertaking projects like this make buying a lot more attractive. Good luck with this Branno :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[branno]

When weighing up the buying/renting options here, being self-sufficient and undertaking projects like this make buying a lot more attractive. Good luck with this Branno :xxgrinning--00xx3:

once we have decided on the structure, which will be a raised floor say 5 feet off the ground then apprpox 25 feet wide by 120 feet long then the raised floor to the truss height say 10 feet. the truss will only hold the weight of the tin roofing and top open venting. the aim is for it to hold say 2000 layers in stages, the hens will be 3 tiers high in 4 rows... so really its not to complex, but i also have to bear in mind winds, typhoons and and rain fall. its worth a try :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[fred]

Branno..
First of all I would seriously suggest that you forget 2000 layers to begin with!!!:icon_lol:
Start with 50 max,gain some experience and discover your real costs with accurate accounting over the period of 18 months at least..
We had a Filipino woman start a layer factory with about 2000 stock and she was closed down by the barangay due to complaints by neighbours last year..Bare in mind that she was operating in a rural area and on her own huge fenced lot..
The reason given was the amount of flies that the chickens attracted.. As I said before,we dig all the chicen waste into the garden and the rest goes into a septic tank with gallons of water.. Our worker cleans up thoroughly twice a day so flies cant breed.
Most large poultry farms are operated by local shopping mall owners and the like that have very strong ties with all the local authorities and get this...They Know what they are doing!
I have tried to do this business large scale here in the 90`s semi remotely from the UK..
It was a big mistake but a lesson well learned..
Many people (me included) have to learn by their own mistakes and will tend to disregard the type of advice that I have just given.. Sayang, ano?:icon_lol::icon_lol:
I`ll let you know the cost profit/loss of raising 45 day chickens in about a months time.. Ive got a feeling this type of operation is far easier than egg production.. We`ll see!!:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Terpe]

Great info and sound advice. Thanks for sharing that fred.
I would be very interested to learn more from your updates. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[fred]

Thanks Terpe..

I would be very interested to learn more from your updates.

So will I..:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Lets all learn together!

[branno]

Branno..
First of all I would seriously suggest that you forget 2000 layers to begin with!!!:icon_lol:
Start with 50 max,gain some experience and discover your real costs with accurate accounting over the period of 18 months at least..
We had a Filipino woman start a layer factory with about 2000 stock and she was closed down by the barangay due to complaints by neighbours last year..Bare in mind that she was operating in a rural area and on her own huge fenced lot..
The reason given was the amount of flies that the chickens attracted.. As I said before,we dig all the chicen waste into the garden and the rest goes into a septic tank with gallons of water.. Our worker cleans up thoroughly twice a day so flies cant breed.
Most large poultry farms are operated by local shopping mall owners and the like that have very strong ties with all the local authorities and get this...They Know what they are doing!
I have tried to do this business large scale here in the 90`s semi remotely from the UK..
It was a big mistake but a lesson well learned..
Many people (me included) have to learn by their own mistakes and will tend to disregard the type of advice that I have just given.. Sayang, ano?:icon_lol::icon_lol:
I`ll let you know the cost profit/loss of raising 45 day chickens in about a months time.. Ive got a feeling this type of operation is far easier than egg production.. We`ll see!!:xxgrinning--00xx3:

ohh goodness i wont be starting with 2000 ill be building that up over a set time providing as you say too things work out accordingly.. (fingers crossed) yes im listening too re your 45 day chickens :xxgrinning--00xx3:

this is a far cry from wot my original plans were a few yrs ago, initialy i just wanted to set up in el nido building small bancas, and sipping wine in the afternoon or a few cold pilsens.:xxgrinning--00xx3: just to enjoy some activity and earn a few bob.. then i discovered the visayas and things changed again :icon_lol: i guess a few of us have had some sort of plans in some way of earning a crust or wanting to be active in some way especially if your in the phils for long stretches. my partner has a relative in banga mindanao who has both a huge piggery and a poultry farm so we are taking advice from each and every one, even seminars too.. your never to young to learn :} and yes i will appreciate any info you can give me too fred.. :xxgrinning--00xx3: on any matter :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

I took a trip to the Dept of Agriculture and Fisheries in Laguna (Los Banos ?).

They were really pleasant and helpful, with one of their professors taking me on a tour of their experimental fish farm facility.

At that time I was more into aquaculture.

In the end I decided against fish farming in the Phils, due to likely security issues.
Shame really because the business possibilities were encouraging.

I've just met so many expats who've lost out financially on these (bigger) ventures over the years, that I'm afraid I am rather cynical these days.

[branno]

funny you shud mention about fish graham, ive just asked my wifes sister in law to enquire about the possibilty of renting some huge fish tanks at the university where she works. she is a marine biologist and they are studying sea cucumbers.. this project is severely underfunded, so with some donations i may be able to open other doors.. ;) apparantly sea cucumbers are fetching quite a few bob. but as yet they are still struggling to breed them in captivity at the uni, but results are looking reasonably good. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

Japan apparently has an industry producing food fish in indoor tanks.

That's something I'd be happier doing. - More PRIVATE. :)

I had an aquatics shop here in England for a few years, with getting on for a couple of hundred tanks.

I decided upon breeding ornamental birds last time I was in the Phils though (for 3 years), with some success.

[branno]

yeah i remember u telling me that graham, theres a great amount of birds in the phils, ill have to get a bird book. :icon_lol:

[somebody]

Freakythe Missus is setting up a chicken farm (is that the right term?) I think she starting with 400 chickens a family member is doing nearby and the reason the wife is getting her Aunt to set up is the demand is so great buyers are asking for more.

The family are known as a land owning farmers in the town with lots of links to the local Councl and mayor etc. But still a risk the biggest one apart from theft and sabotage. I would have thought is Typhoons and flooding although the area is on higher ground so should be ok even during onday it was dry. The price of food is sky rocketing in phill at the moment at a rate many have not seen for years and years im told.

[grahamw48]

The price of grain and animal feed is high everywhere now. Makes an enormous difference to profitability.

I'm sure all here will realise that being a Foreigner and running a business....particularly agricultural, is a very different proposition to one run by locals over there.

Weather is a concern possibly, but not one I'd lose sleep over, with the correct housing and general location. :)

[branno]

rain fall is having terrible affect on the rice production too... one field only brought us in a poor 750 kilos..

[somebody]

hmm where did that post go I just wrote:Erm:

Yeah your right Graham its all being done by the Family and the families farm workers who have been working with the family for years. So hopefully not a problem.

The money is huge at the moment even talk of Japan needing to start importing far more foodstuffs and other countries looking for new sources of food other than Japan.
Didn't realise they produced so much food!!
The Wifes family are bringing back into farming of various kinds vast tracts of land which is great news and means more people being employed:xxgrinning--00xx3:

When the Wife was speaking to older family members who have large farms she was told th ebiggest issue is Chickens dieing of Heat exhaustion a bigger problem than diease or theft im told. So location as Graham very important:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

Funny that I almost mentioned the heat being a problem for certain livestock...but forgot. :rolleyes:

I was breeding rabbits for meat at one time, and this really was a problem for them...and in fact for most imported 'furry animals'.
(I also bred Guinea Pigs and Hamsters, but not for meat :icon_lol:).

Again, any form of cooling is a major expense, so choice of breed is very important as regards chickens etc. Learn from the locals first, and then try a few improvements.

.
.
Diepers and ducks: :) (He later went and sat in their bath :doh)

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5264/phils1990and1991017.jpg

[branno]

heat is a very important factor, so we are considering nippa under the tin roof too.. if it helps... i often go to an island north of iloilo its called palina its hard to google mainly just fishermen no power except generators after 6 pm for a few hours.. which is lovely to me. theres no roads either just tracks and bancas .. i go out some times to pull in the nets with the boys and they have a mile long net x a metre deep. after 12 hours of this net been located the catch is very minimal one night we only pulled in 12 fish or so...which considering over a period of 12 hours isnt such a good catch... but its two days food.:)

[grahamw48]

....Just catching one for breakfast...as you do.:D

.
.http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2518/grafishinginphils.jpg

[branno]

....Just catching one for breakfast...as you do.:D

.
.http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2518/grafishinginphils.jpg

thought u was looking for a certain persons flip flop :icon_lol:

[fred]

Ok.. The chickens reached 48 days and we have slaughtered 5.. They weighed 2 KGs alive and 1.5 Kgs after they were cleaned.. The other 5 are still underweight.
The 10 that we have have consumed almost 50 KGS of food costing 1.200 Pesos.. The chicks were 38 pesos each so 380.00 Pesos..
So lets call it 1,600 for 15 kilos of clean chicken..
15 Kilos in the market here would cost on average 145.00 per kilo or 1,450 PHP..
Apart from the intestines,heads,feet and chicken waste I have just made a loss and so cannot recommend this for anything other than for home consumption..
If this was operated in volume as a business venture then you could get feeds cheaper due to volume and sell chicken waste to farmers and bangus fish farms etc.. On the other hand you will have business related costs such as permits and taxes not to mention losses in stocks due to desease or sickness etc..Also employees salaries and benefits to pay (such as SS and Philhealth after 6 months)
In short I wouldnt touch this business with a barge pole and that is the same for layers..
Cheers,
Fred.

[branno]

Ok.. The chickens reached 48 days and we have slaughtered 5.. They weighed 2 KGs alive and 1.5 Kgs after they were cleaned.. The other 5 are still underweight.
The 10 that we have have consumed almost 50 KGS of food costing 1.200 Pesos.. The chicks were 38 pesos each so 380.00 Pesos..
So lets call it 1,600 for 15 kilos of clean chicken..
15 Kilos in the market here would cost on average 145.00 per kilo or 1,450 PHP..
Apart from the intestines,heads,feet and chicken waste I have just made a loss and so cannot recommend this for anything other than for home consumption..
If this was operated in volume as a business venture then you could get feeds cheaper due to volume and sell chicken waste to farmers and bangus fish farms etc.. On the other hand you will have business related costs such as permits and taxes not to mention losses in stocks due to desease or sickness etc..Also employees salaries and benefits to pay (such as SS and Philhealth after 6 months)
In short I wouldnt touch this business with a barge pole and that is the same for layers..
Cheers,
Fred.

cheers for that fred...well i hope it tasted nice :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

It has always been my view that it is likely to be a fruitless exercise trying to compete with the locals in most businesses.

Really it is better to try finding a 'niche' business that they are not so good at, and where 'skill' and added value are the main factors rather than labour and production costs.

[ajames1463]

well you can as some poultry guys in the philipines. I know there's a lot poultry business makers in pangasinan.

[worthingmale]

some very interesting reading here, thanks for this

chickens off the business ideas, but the fish farm sounds interesting breeding fish to eat

any other ideas for business and a crazy young guy who wants to try would be greatly appreciated please :)

[Peanutz]

some very interesting reading here, thanks for this

chickens off the business ideas, but the fish farm sounds interesting breeding fish to eat

any other ideas for business and a crazy young guy who wants to try would be greatly appreciated please :)

You may find some ideas at Negosyo Ideas (Google it) :D

[branno]

some very interesting reading here, thanks for this

chickens off the business ideas, but the fish farm sounds interesting breeding fish to eat

any other ideas for business and a crazy young guy who wants to try would be greatly appreciated please :)

sea cucumbers :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[worthingmale]

erm sea cucumbers ? think your pulling my leg :icon_lol:

[branno]

erm sea cucumbers ? think your pulling my leg :icon_lol:

noooo sea cucumbers are big bucks :xxgrinning--00xx3: