Doubling amount husbands must earn to £26,000 would block two thirds immigrant brides

[RickyR]

Doubling amount husbands must earn to £26,000 would block two thirds of immigrant brides, says government watchdog
40,000 foreign wives, husbands and partners were granted visas to join their family in the UK last year

Two thirds of foreign wives could be banned from the UK under plans to stop immigrants becoming 'a burden on the state'.

Government immigration advisers say that the minimum salary required to bring a spouse to Britain should go up significantly, and may even be doubled.

The proposals could mean more than half of the UK's population would not be able to bring in a foreign partner, as they might not earn enough to support them without relying on benefits.
And the threshold may be pushed even higher for those trying to bring children to the UK.
Family: But British residents earning less than the national average wage could be barred from bringing in a partner from abroad (file photo)
Professor David Metcalf, chairman of the Migration Advisory Committee, said a minimum salary of between £18,600 and £25,700 should be introduced for UK residents sponsoring a partner or dependant for UK citizenship.

This minimum, which applies equally to British citizens and immigrants, is currently set at around £13,700.
Some 40,000 foreign wives, husbands and partners were granted visas to join their family in the UK last year, but that number would be cut by up to 63 per cent under the proposals.
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The Government asked the advisers to identify the salary a worker would need to earn to support a spouse or partner 'without them becoming a burden on the state', Professor Metcalf said.

The minimum salary could be even higher for those who wanted their children to join them from abroad, he added.

The lowest figure in the proposed range, £18,600, is the income level at which many benefits, including housing benefit and tax credits, are withdrawn, while the highest figure, £25,700, represents the typical income of a one-adult household.

It would mean that between a quarter and a half of full-time adult workers would be unable to bring their partners to the UK - but many others, including the unemployed and pensioners, could be prevented too.

Wealthy: Only those earning above-average wages will be able to sponsor a spouse
Prof Metcalf said the proposals do not take into account Britons' right to a family life.

'We have to abide by the terms of reference that we are set up for, and that's to answer the questions which the Government sets us, and not go off on a track of our own,' he said.

'It's for others to then decide whether in some senses that question is a bit wrong, [if] it's in this case too economic focused, or quite possibly we've not addressed it properly.'

He added that the current threshold was 'a bit low', and suggested there was 'justification for raising the pay threshold' to prevent a huge benefits bill for spouses from abroad.

The MAC's figures show that of the 40,000 spouses and partners brought in from outside the EU, nearly a third were from India, Pakistan or Bangladesh, while 6 per cent came from the U.S. and 5 per cent from Nepal.

It added that while 94 per cent of those based in the UK with a spouse abroad wanted their partner to join them, half earned less than £20,100 and three quarters earned less than £30,500.
The Institute for Public Policy Research warned that if the Government accepted the proposals and went ahead with the policy, 'it is likely to be challenged in the courts'.

Matt Cavanagh, the think-tank's associate director, said: 'It isn't unreasonable - particularly in the current economic climate - to ask whether, if someone is destitute or entirely dependent on benefits, they should be allowed to bring in a spouse or partner who is likely to end up in a similar position.

'But introducing an income threshold at £25,700 - the level of the national median income - would effectively bar half the population from bringing a spouse or partner from abroad.

'We're not talking about people who are destitute or living on benefits, we are talking about people who are working and getting an average wage


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2062218/UK-immigration-Two-thirds-foreign-wives-banned-Britain.html#ixzz1dw8m60Mi

[joebloggs]

article 8, the gov has no chance :laugher:
and they should have to take account of what the spouse would earn in the UK if she was working.

i can't see this happening, the gov record is crap at winning any court cases, they've had to lower the age back to 18 from 21,no doubt the english test will be scrapped to, so setting it anywhere near £26,000 is doomed :laugher:

[John_10]

Hi RickyR...Is this already implemented? Because my husband he earned £8 per hour. We are more worried coz I didnt apply yet my visa. Thanks for posting this important topic. We want only more on clarification.

[RickyR]

Hi, don't worry, this hasn't been implimented yet, and probably won't be.

I understand the principle of the action, the idea that the immigration system is being abused.

But this isn't the solution, the real problem is the welfare state, once thats sorted, it will solve many of the immigraton problems.

[hawk]

we only want to bring our patners to uk not to go on benifets but to be able to work as for money other year i only got around £10.000 for year it looks like better start saving move to philippines and start selling chickens and pigs might not be big income but better than not having my partner not aloued to be with me

[andy222]

:yikes: Where did you get this info from Ricky?

[grahamw48]

I was dozing in bed this morning when it came on Radio 4, and of course I was instantly awake and listening.:D

Yes, I'd like to keep out as many from the Indian sub-continent as possible before they take over the country, but this does of course affect us all, and none of us has a guaranteed job and income in the future.

What doesn't seem to be taken into account in the case of countries like the Philippines, where there actually is a work ethic, and a non-medieval attitude towards women, is that probably the majority of Filipinas take up work after they arrive here on Spouse visas.

Perhaps the govt. should take that into consideration.

[andy222]

Oh yes just seen it. Yes your spot on Graham it does affect us all.

[andy222]

Better get moving with the spouse visa.:xxgrinning--00xx3: Early christmas present for the wife. A english test.http://filipinaroses.com/images/smilies/laugher.gif

[grahamw48]

Yep...before the whole country is bankrupt and all of us from the 'peasant class' with it. :cwm3:

[Dedworth]

The authorities should be banning arranged marriages and multiple wives

[andy222]

Thats what they are trying to do dedworth. But its the genuine that will suffer. Although I agree with some of the things they are trying to do. Surley a someone who has lived and worked in this country all his life has a right to marry who he wants and bring them here.?

[sars_notd_virus]

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/32481-Poor-to-be-banned-!!/page2?highlight=poor+to+be+banned

Ouch!! this is so annoying a lot of us from the non-Eu is contibuting to this country!! why not cut the benefits of those people who live in benefits? ? control the border from inside the EU ? ?, ..Oh well, I got a bit OTT there is article 8 Human Rights why should anyone worry??

[andy222]

Somehow I dont think the human rights act will cover this one. The government have already looked at that.

[grahamw48]

Certain 'communities' here are so accustomed to cheating the system, sharing IDs etc that they will easily find ways round this. :rolleyes:

As usual the law-abiding will come off worse. :NoNo:

[mickcant]

My income since retiring is too far below the present earnings to be able to sponcer another Filipina wife anyhow, as it is now.

Instead of trying to limit new spouses coming into the UK, should they not do something about those like my ex wife who abused the system and me to work here, the UKBA said they were going to cancel her settlement visa but then did not?

She is still in the UK, the visa expires tomorrow the 18th Nov, so she will just melt into the background.:NoNo:
Mick.:)

[Dedworth]

Thats what they are trying to do dedworth. But its the genuine that will suffer. Although I agree with some of the things they are trying to do. Surley a someone who has lived and worked in this country all his life has a right to marry who he wants and bring them here.?

Andy - I don't think any rights should include multiple or arranged wives - people participasting in these practicers are prime benefit abusers

[Terpe]

It's always concerning whenever the media grab attention by feeding the paranoia of others.

We all knew about this back in July when the consultation period started so it's hardly a surprise.

For anyone interested here is the official UKBA news release:-
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/2011/november/30-family-route

Additionally here is the actual MAC report:-
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/aboutus/workingwithus/mac/family-migration-route/family-migration-route.pdf?view=Binary

Personally I haven't got round to reading the report yet.

However, the MAC notes clearly state that this report is totally based on purely ECONOMIC reasoning.They fully accept that any final decision MUST also take account of moral and legal issues.

There's a whole heap of discussions yet to go through. If this report were to be introduced as it stands there would be a lot of successful Article 8 appeals.
I'd say that in principle this is the very definition of disproportionate interference with family life ...

[joebloggs]

Somehow I dont think the human rights act will cover this one. The government have already looked at that.

:laugher: like they looked into :censored: those on HSMP, raising the age to 21, the english language test and all the other court cases that they've lost and will keep losing.

article 8 i think will play a big part, and the fact is whats stopping you going to another EU country for a few months, working there and applying for a family permit for your wife, which you have a virtual legal right to under EU law, and then bringing her to the UK..

they are trying to stop people who get ILR claiming benefits by proposing to extend the time you can get ILR to 5yrs instead of 2yrs for a spouse, but i dont think that will change much, as their british/EU partner can still claim the benefits.

i dont think its workable :doh

they need to look at the potential earnings of the non EU partner, my wife earns twice what i earn :laugher::doh

[andy222]

Well for a start Joe the language barrier you need to speak there language to get a job. Secondly why should I need to do that. I pay my taxes and ni? It depends what threshold they put on this. Everybody knows there is a north/south divide where salary is concerned. What Ps me off is like many of us we have spent thousands courting and marrying our wives there and now they are trying to put the block on us being together. Any way as you know I work for the NHS. I might go on the sick due to stress and sue the government for compensation.

[lykayu01]

Really not good its just "All about the Money!!!" :( hope they just remove things that are not really necessary and just an added expence in applying spouse visa... Why do they have to make life even harder :\:NoNo:

[John_10]

In applying spouse visa lot of expenses then the Immigration makes more difficult regarding the rules and regulations.
Thanks for the relief:D

[joebloggs]

Well for a start Joe the language barrier you need to speak there language to get a job. Secondly why should I need to do that. I pay my taxes and ni? It depends what threshold they put on this. Everybody knows there is a north/south divide where salary is concerned. What Ps me off is like many of us we have spent thousands courting and marrying our wives there and now they are trying to put the block on us being together. Any way as you know I work for the NHS. I might go on the sick due to stress and sue the government for compensation.

like you my wife works for the NHS :xxgrinning--00xx3: she needed to have passed the Academic version of IELTs with at least 6.5/7 in each section even to get registered.

they can't just base it on a set income, what if you own your own house but earn less than 26k but your refused, yet someone who earns 28k pays £900 a month or what ever for a mortgage but is granted the visa :crazy:

also another way round this is, if you have a child, bring the kids to the uk, apply for a visa for the misses to have access to the child.

move to anothe european country and exercise your treaty rights.

oh it cost me more than £4,000 for visas (settlement visa, FLR, ILR, citizenship, life in uk test) for the misses and kids and that was a few years ago :cwm23:

[Arthur Little]

Phew ... as a State Pensioner, the way I look at how things have changed dramatically since 2008/9 ... the more convinced I've become that I acted in the "nick of time" - before it was too late! :doh

[andy222]

Good for you Arthur. This has got me so mad. If they want to wind anyone up they sure know how to do it. A figure is stated in the post minimum income is £13700. Why did the uk border person say there was no income limit when I asked? Or am i reading it wrong?

[Arthur Little]

move to anothe european country and exercise your treaty rights.

Aye ... but you see, Joe, I've never quite understood WHY such so-called "treaty rights" can be exercised by non-British Europeans bringing their partners to what is, after all, OUR country - yet WE are precluded from this privilege; it's GROSSLY unfair! :angry:

[lastlid]

Good for you Arthur. This has got me so mad. If they want to wind anyone up they sure know how to do it. A figure is stated in the post minimum income is £13700. Why did the uk border person say there was no income limit when I asked? Or am i reading it wrong?

I am sure that currently there is no set minimum figure as such, Andy. But papers get it wrong sometimes.

[andy222]

Its just all confusing and worrying at the same time lastlid. Thanks.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

Professor David Metcalf, chairman of the Migration Advisory Committee, said a minimum salary of between £18,600 and £25,700 should be introduced for UK residents sponsoring a partner or dependant for UK citizenship.

This minimum, which applies equally to British citizens and immigrants, is currently set at around £13,700.


Good for you Arthur. This has got me so mad. If they want to wind anyone up they sure know how to do it. A figure is stated in the post minimum income is £13700. Why did the uk border person say there was no income limit when I asked? Or am i reading it wrong?

:gp:, Andy ... that's MY train of thought too!! Tbh, I'd no :idea: there was any set minimum ... yet! As far as I'm aware, these unrealistic proposals are presently at the drawing-board stage ... and what the UKBA person led you to believe, still applies. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

I believe what they are ACTUALLY looking for is DISPOSABLE income.

Some people may have zero mortgage while some may be paying over a thousand a month etc.

That is certainly how the credit companies go about it. :)

[andy222]

:gp:, Andy ... that's MY train of thought too!! Tbh, I'd no :idea: there was any set minimum ... yet! As far as I'm aware, these unrealistic proposals are presently at the drawing-board stage ... and what the UKBA person led you to believe, still applies. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

We are talking about Cameron and his cronies here Arthur. It will definatley go ahead,:doh

[gWaPito]

Matt Cavanagh, the think-tank's associate director, said: 'It isn't unreasonable - particularly in the current economic climate - to ask whether, if someone is destitute or entirely dependent on benefits, they should be allowed to bring in a spouse or partner who is likely to end up in a similar position


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2062218/UK-immigration-Two-thirds-foreign-wives-banned-Britain.html#ixzz1dw8m60Mi

Excellent post, excellent idea Matty....this is commonsense talking now.

Doomed it maybe but, its idea I'd vote for :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/comment/talking-politics/only-rich-fall-love-cameron-britain-115946600.html

An interesting article related to this thread........

[lastlid]

Extract :

"The Migration Advisory Committee did the sums and announced this morning that the salary would need to be somewhere between £18,700 and £25,700. It will almost certainly be accepted and implemented. That means half the working population of Britain are about to lose the right to fall in love with someone overseas and bring them home to live together. Only the rich can fall in love on holiday. Only the rich are allowed to live with the person they love. The poor must be apart, or leave their own country."

[grahamw48]

Also...bridegrooms.

Many are currently coming in for arranged marriages from the primitive Asian subcontinent, and that's what has probably caused the problems for the rest of us. :angry:

Of course they will also be the people most likely to fiddle their way round the regulations. :rolleyes:

STUPID GOVERNMENT ! :cwm23:

[imagine]

Also...bridegrooms.

Many are currently coming in for arranged marriages from the primitive Asian subcontinent, and that's what has probably caused the problems for the rest of us. :angry:

Of course they will also be the people most likely to fiddle their way round the regulations. :rolleyes:

STUPID GOVERNMENT ! :cwm23:

dont they always with everything :NoNo:

[joebloggs]

Aye ... but you see, Joe, I've never quite understood WHY such so-called "treaty rights" can be exercised by non-British Europeans bringing their partners to what is, after all, OUR country - yet WE are precluded from this privilege; it's GROSSLY unfair! :angry:

yes, you can not exercise your treaty right in the country where your a citizen


I am sure that currently there is no set minimum figure as such, Andy. But papers get it wrong sometimes.

there is no minimum income at the mo, some appeal judges use what you would get on income support as a married couple as a guideline, even some people on benefits and unemployed have managed to get a visa

[andy222]

Exactly Joe but you key words are no minimum income AT THE MO. Anyway all will be revealed come April.

[gWaPito]

Extract :

"The Migration Advisory Committee did the sums and announced this morning that the salary would need to be somewhere between £18,700 and £25,700. It will almost certainly be accepted and implemented. That means half the working population of Britain are about to lose the right to fall in love with someone overseas and bring them home to live together. Only the rich can fall in love on holiday. Only the rich are allowed to live with the person they love. The poor must be apart, or leave their own country."

I would hardly call someone earning (not bringing home) between 18.5 k and 25.5 k rich.

Even the goverment don't, to the extent of subsiding that income In working tax credit up to the tune of 11.5 k per year if you got 3 kids. Happy days ahh...for some.

I don't know what the complaining is all about, if you don't earn enough to look after yourself without any sort of benefits, how on earth are you going to look after your wife and kids, not without recourse to public funds.

The fact is, those non English speaking Europeans are now our new brothers and sisters....diddly squat we can do about it. That is unfair.

[grahamw48]

Oh, does that mean I can now travel throughout Europe without a passport ? :Erm:

[gWaPito]

Oh, does that mean I can now travel throughout Europe without a passport ? :Erm:

The UKBA are unable to protect our borders from the unlawful so im guessing they are taking the easier route by shafting the law abiding....in this case its justifiable...as for passports, naah just wrap yourself around a Polish truck's axle...when in Rome do as the Romans do :)

[John_10]

Surley a someone who has lived and worked in this country all his life has a right to marry who he wants and bring them here.?

Andy you are right
I am John.... I have worked hard all my life here in the UK. I thought I had a good living..I have savings can go on holiday even travel round the world to get married.
I have no intentions of bringing my wife Maricris to the UK and try to live off Benifits. I have never claimed for Benifits and hopefuly I never will. But the target the Goverment is asking is way out of my reach. I live here in the north.... some on this forum say it is not a lot of money..But I asure you not many employers are willing to pay £400+ a week not in the days of national minimum wage. Who knows what will happen if this is implemented there is no way I would reach the Goverments financial target. So dose Maricris stay were she is..this is all going pear shaped:crazy:

[andy222]

Thanks for that John and very well said.:xxgrinning--00xx3:.

[Sim11UK]

Surley a someone who has lived and worked in this country all his life has a right to marry who he wants and bring them here.?

Andy you are right
I am John.... I have worked hard all my life here in the UK. I thought I had a good living..I have savings can go on holiday even travel round the world to get married.
I have no intentions of bringing my wife Maricris to the UK and try to live off Benifits. I have never claimed for Benifits and hopefuly I never will. But the target the Goverment is asking is way out of my reach. I live here in the north.... some on this forum say it is not a lot of money..But I asure you not many employers are willing to pay £400+ a week not in the days of national minimum wage. Who knows what will happen if this is implemented there is no way I would reach the Goverments financial target. So dose Maricris stay were she is..this is all going pear shaped:crazy:

John don't be so downhearted & don't be a victim, from your post you shouldn't have a problem.
You've got to stay positive, hard though that seems sometimes, we've all been there.

andy222, you need to stop being so negative too. :)

[gWaPito]

John don't be so downhearted & don't be a victim, from your post you shouldn't have a problem.
You've got to stay positive, hard though that seems sometimes, we've all been there.

andy222, you need to stop being so negative too. :)
I agree.

[Arthur Little]

Surley someone who has lived and worked in this country all his life has a right to marry who he wants and bring them here.?

I am John.... I have worked hard all my life here in the UK. I thought I had a good living..I have savings can go on holiday even travel round the world to get married.

But the target the Goverment is asking is way out of my reach. I live here in the north. ... some on this forum say it is not a lot of money..But I asure you not many employers are willing to pay £400+ a week not in the days of national minimum wage.

:iagree: with John. Even taking into account the combined total of MY Occupational and State Pensions, there's NO WAY I could match any more than half the unrealistic Government figures quoted. :nono-1-1: Those who claim it isn't a lot of money are either fortunate enough to be [that] well-off ... or they're living in cloud :Cuckoo: land. End of story!

[grahamw48]

For my new love....I'm prepared to sell my body. :Cuckoo:

[gWaPito]

:iagree: with John. Even taking into account the combined total of MY Occupational and State Pensions, there's NO WAY I could match any more than half the unrealistic Government figures quoted. :nono-1-1: Those who claim it isn't a lot of money are either fortunate enough to be [that] well-off ... or they're living in cloud :Cuckoo: land. End of story!

25k is the average uk wage......no cuckoo land or well off.......it's just average. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

25k is the average uk wage......not cuckoo land or well off....... it's just average. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

It may BE for the hours YOU purport to work (by your OWN admission) ... but the average wage for a senior clerk [which I was] putting in a NORMAL 36-hour working week is NOWHERE near £25k p.a.! :NoNo: Mark my words.

[gWaPito]

It may BE for the hours YOU purport to work (by your OWN admission) ... but the average wage for a senior clerk [which I was] putting in a NORMAL 36-hour working week is NOWHERE near £25k p.a.! :NoNo: Mark my words.

Goodness me :cwm3: I didn't state it was average....the national statistics did!

It just goes to show there's a north south divide

[Arthur Little]

I assure you not many employers are willing to pay £400+ a week not in the days of national minimum wage.

Referring once more to this extract from John's post ... :yeahthat: ... :please: ... :ReadIt: again!

[Arthur Little]

Goodness me :cwm3: I didn't state it was average.... the national statistics did!

Ahh ... well, now ... :anerikke: ... I'm sure you're familiar with the old saying: "There's lies ... damn lies ... and statistics !!!".

[gWaPito]

Ahh ... well, now ... :anerikke: ... I'm sure you're familiar with the old saying: "There's lies ... damn lies ... and statistics !!!".
Says the gospel of St Arthur....it must true....anyway back to the grindstone :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

It just goes to show there's a north south divide

:rolleyes: ... there, I'd be inclined to agree!

[Arthur Little]

....anyway back to the grindstone :xxgrinning--00xx3:

At 2.20 AM ? :doh ... is the money REALLY WORTH it ?

[gWaPito]

At 2.20 AM ? :doh ... is the money REALLY WORTH it ?

Its not that bad, before this I was working away, living in my truck coming home maybe one weekend in 4.

Contrary to belief, its not the fairys that fill your 24hr food stores.

If I didn't do it you can guarantee joe Pole would jump in my shoes and get paid a third of my wage and be thankful for it. That's how bad it is....us full time British born employees are literally a dying breed.

[andy222]

You know. I am always reading the posts on here and I have never found a more friendlier site. Even those who are settled here with their wives have given their support and input. Thanks for your support guys. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

True....when they're not arguing in the middle of the bloody night ! :icon_lol:

[andy222]

Nice one Graham!:laugher::laugher:

[joebloggs]

25k is the average uk wage......no cuckoo land or well off.......it's just average. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

who says the average wage is 25k :Erm:
old saying about statistics. put your head in an oven and your feet in a fridge, and statistics will tell you your doing fine :laugher:

not many service jobs pay £25k, have a look in your local paper are paying that or more.. many pay minimum wage :angry:

[lastlid]

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-1709280/Best-paid-jobs-A-guide-UK-salaries-wages-2010.html

A few more stats on UK salaries....

[grahamw48]

Not going to look.

I already know I'm poor. :cwm3:

[andy222]

Looks about right laslid if you work down south.

[andy222]

Ok guys I will tell you what :censored: me off. I work in the community (rehabilitation) for patients mainly elderly. Helping them get back on their feet after operations and falls. What gets me mad is some of the people I treat are fathers and mothers of immigrants that their sons have brought over here. Never worked or paid into the system. Cant speak english you get what I mean. And now they are making it hard for my wife to come here. Sorry about the rant but thats the way it is.

[lastlid]

I see the irony there Andy. I understand where your coming from on that.

[grahamw48]

Ok guys I will tell you what :censored: me off. I work in the community (rehabilitation) for patients mainly elderly. Helping them get back on their feet after operations and falls. What gets me mad is some of the people I treat are fathers and mothers of immigrants that their sons have bought over here. Never worked or paid into the system. Cant speak english you get what I mean. And now they are making it hard for my wife to come here. Sorry about the rant but thats the way it is.

That would really piss me off too. :NoNo:

I'm sure there are plenty of hard-working Filipinas looking after these people too....only to be booted out of OUR country after their contract is up. :rolleyes:

[lastlid]

The stats are probably correct, nationally. But there are far more earners below the national average income than above the national average income. Hence, to many folk, they don't look right.

[andy222]

That would really piss me off too. :NoNo:

I'm sure there are plenty of hard-working Filipinas looking after these people too....only to be booted out of OUR country after their contract is up. :rolleyes:

Too right it :censored: me off Graham but the government wont understand.

[gWaPito]

True....when they're not arguing in the middle of the bloody night ! :icon_lol:

Arthur was short of forumers last night, it was either be quiet or argue with Mark for 5mins :D

We are friends really :icon_lol:

[grahamw48]

Yeah, I know mate. ;)

I'm wondering why Arthur is up and aboot in the middle of the nicht.....maybe an age thing. :D

[gWaPito]

The stats are probably correct, nationally. But there are far more earners below the national average income than above the national average income. Hence, to many folk, they don't look right.

If there was more people earning below the national average then surely the national average wouldn't be where it is ....perhaps I have missed something:Erm:

Graham, I expect Arthur was on sentry duty, being a mod and all that...either that or the waterworks :D

[lastlid]

If there was more people earning below the national average then surely the national average wouldn't be where it is ....perhaps I have missed something:Erm:

It depends on your understanding of the word "average".

Add three peoples incomes : £15000 and £15000 and £90000 , for example. Then find the average. It will be higher than the most prevalent number. And more of the three will fall below the average than above it.

[grahamw48]

It's all balls anyway, seeing as half the population are self-employed....including virtually ALL of the highest earners, and these haven't even been properly accounted for. :)

Have they factored in all those on benefits too ?

Assessment should be based on disposable income and net assets...too complicated of course, although credit companies seem to manage.

[Terpe]

Interesting comments on the thread. Interesting questions raised.

There's no doubt the govt wants to get a grip on immigration, and also importantly wants to get a grip on the 'benefits trap'. The report explains quite a lot of very interesting data.

No offence all, but has anyone actually taken the time to read the report?

It's not really bedtime reading, but if you stick at it is at least interesting and relevant to most here.
At least if you read it you have a much better understanding of why it was done, what were the objectives and what conclusions can be made.

It also explains all the options, all the numbers (and all those income levels that have been bandied about) how those numbers were arrived at and why

Don't forget these are just part of what will eventually become recommendations. Like not being able to apply for ILR until at least 5 years probationary period.
The report details other studies yet to come.

[Arthur Little]

I'm wondering why Arthur is up and aboot in the middle of the nicht..... maybe an age thing. :D


Graham, I expect Arthur was on sentry duty, being a mod and all that. ..either that or the waterworks :D

:piss2: ... so you're BOTH right, gents !! :D

[Arthur Little]

Arthur was short of forumers last night, it was either be quiet or argue with Mark for 5mins :D

:iagree: ... :yeahthat: ... so we agreed to disagree! :icon_lol:

[Arthur Little]

We are friends really :icon_lol:

:xxgrinning--00xx3: ... of course we are !! :)

[joebloggs]

It depends on your understanding of the word "average".

Add three peoples incomes : £15000 and £15000 and £90000 , for example. Then find the average. It will be higher than the most prevalent number. And more of the three will fall below the average than above it.

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

if 4 people earn the following

15k, 18k, 24k and 43k the average is 25k, yet only 1 person earn 25k or more :NoNo:

[Terpe]

I must be missing something. :doh
I'm not understanding the importance of the various ways to determine average,arithmetic mean,geometric mean,statistical weighted average, median, mode or whatever.

Just read the report!

[gWaPito]

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

if 4 people earn the following

15k, 18k, 24k and 43k the average is 25k, yet only 1 person earn 25k or more :NoNo:

Thank you for the maths lesson teacher Bloggs :rolleyes:

This is going on the assumption that this is how the available data is manipulated. I'd very much doubt it is.

Im going with Graham's last post here....shame it wasn't posted at the start.

[joebloggs]

I must be missing something. :doh
I'm not understanding the importance of the various ways to determine average,arithmetic mean,geometric mean,statistical weighted average, median, mode or whatever.

Just read the report!

:icon_lol: yes mean, mode, median and standard deviation :cwm24: i did O' level statistics at school, the most boring subject ever :NEW5::bigcry:

[gWaPito]

I must be missing something. :doh
I'm not understanding the importance of the various ways to determine average,arithmetic mean,geometric mean,statistical weighted average, median, mode or whatever.

Just read the report!

Exactly!.......alot of inane nonsense about well, you tell me :)

[joebloggs]

Thank you for the maths lesson teacher Bloggs :rolleyes:

This is going on the assumption that this is how the available data is manipulated. I'd very much doubt it is.

Im going with Graham's last post here....shame it wasn't posted at the start.

wheres my apple gWaPito :D

manipulation of data is carried out by the Gov and the press all of the time :icon_lol:

[grahamw48]

Which do you trust less ? :rolleyes:

[Terpe]

From the report:-

......we recommend that the income threshold to sponsor a spouse or partner be set between £18,600 and £25,700 gross per year.

Our preferred threshold using the benefits approach is £18,600 per year
This figure was calculated by making the following assumptions, which we believe to be reasonable:-
- Because the question above asks us what the income threshold should be to ensure that the sponsor‟s family does not become a „burden on the state‟, the threshold is set at the point at which the family is not entitled to receive any income-related benefits (including Tax Credits).
- The amount of rent that the sponsor‟s family pays is equal to the unweighted average of the Local Housing Allowance amounts for a one-bedroom property for Great Britain, because this is likely to best represent the „typical‟ family.
- The household consists of two adults, to compensate for the relatively narrow interpretation of „burden on the state‟ under this approach, and to capture the impact in terms of benefit entitlement of the addition of an adult to a household.


Our preferred threshold using the net fiscal approach is £25,700 per year
This figure was calculated by making the following assumptions:-
- The threshold is set equal to mean household income, to capture the approximate point at which a household might reasonably be expected to make a neutral net fiscal contribution.
- The household consists of one adult, because we have assumed that the income of the spouse/partner is not taken into account when calculating the sponsor‟s family‟s income.

[Terpe]

Again from the report:-

The current maintenance requirement assesses the post-tax income after housing costs of the sponsor‟s family against an income threshold based on Income Support. As outlined in Chapter 2, the income threshold (post-tax after deducting housing costs) for a two-adult family, representing the case where a lone spouse/partner joins a sponsor, is £105.95 per week.
In the current maintenance requirement, housing costs are deducted from the sponsor‟s family‟s income, while in Chapter 4 we assumed that no such deduction was made. We make two assumptions regarding housing costs, which are:-
- first, that housing costs are zero; and
- second, as in Chapter 4, that housing costs are £119 per week (i.e. £100 per week in rent plus £19 per week in Council Tax).

Combining the assumptions given above allows us to compare the range for the income threshold that we recommended above with the threshold under the current maintenance requirement:-

- Under the assumption that housing costs are zero, the equivalent current gross income threshold would be £5,500 per year.
- Under the assumption that housing costs are £119 per week, the equivalent current post-tax income threshold is £224.95 per week (i.e. £105.95 plus £119). The equivalent current gross income threshold is therefore £264 per week, or £13,700 per year.

[grahamw48]

So, let's all ignore 'reality' and use spurious data from a computer....so much easier. :NoNo:

IMHO each case should be treated on its own merits to ensure fairness, even though as with passport control (:rolleyes:) the processing may take a little longer.

The ECO already has the necessary facts and figures to hand.

[John_10]

Sorry Terpe cant get my head round this..like reading the small print on a insurance policy:doh ...is the report saying that £13,700 per year or £264 per week is the minimum amount a person is required to earn before any consideration from the ECO.

[Arthur Little]

Sorry Terpe cant get my head round this.. like reading the small print on a insurance policy :doh ...is the report saying that £13,700 per year or £264 per week is the minimum amount a person is required to earn before any consideration from the ECO.

:rolleyes: ... as with ALL small print, I doubt if we're MEANT to understand it!

[Arthur Little]

A change in life is just around the corner. :):xxgrinning--00xx3:

Change OF life ? :cwm24:

Oh well ... :anerikke: ... it's you that's saying it, I suppose !

[lastlid]

IMHO each case should be treated on its own merits to ensure fairness, even though as with passport control (:rolleyes:) the processing may take a little longer.

The ECO already has the necessary facts and figures to hand.

I agree. The system needs to be more thorough and fairer. But for that I imagine they would want to charge more, maybe...

[philuk]

Again from the report:-

The current maintenance requirement assesses the post-tax income after housing costs of the sponsor‟s family against an income threshold based on Income Support. As outlined in Chapter 2, the income threshold (post-tax after deducting housing costs) for a two-adult family, representing the case where a lone spouse/partner joins a sponsor, is £105.95 per week.
In the current maintenance requirement, housing costs are deducted from the sponsor‟s family‟s income, while in Chapter 4 we assumed that no such deduction was made. We make two assumptions regarding housing costs, which are:-
- first, that housing costs are zero; and
- second, as in Chapter 4, that housing costs are £119 per week (i.e. £100 per week in rent plus £19 per week in Council Tax).

Combining the assumptions given above allows us to compare the range for the income threshold that we recommended above with the threshold under the current maintenance requirement:-

- Under the assumption that housing costs are zero, the equivalent current gross income threshold would be £5,500 per year.
- Under the assumption that housing costs are £119 per week, the equivalent current post-tax income threshold is £224.95 per week (i.e. £105.95 plus £119). The equivalent current gross income threshold is therefore £264 per week, or £13,700 per year.


Has anyone else noticed how many times they used the words assume or assumption,
So how i figure it they have not used any stats or calculations just assumptions,
and we all know that assumption is the mother of all :Sex: ups now dont we boys and girls

[gWaPito]

It added that while 94 per cent of those based in the UK with a spouse abroad wanted their partner to join them, half earned less than £20,100 and three quarters earned less than £30,500.
The Institute for Public Policy Research warned that if the Government accepted the proposals and went ahead with the policy, 'it is likely to be challenged in the courts'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2062218/UK-immigration-Two-thirds-foreign-wives-banned-Britain.html#ixzz1dw8m60Mi
And this folks is why it won't get through :)

Ignore the sabre rattling or lip service, whatever you want to call it and enjoy your Christmas.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[andy222]

Anyone taking bets on this?:NoNo:

[gWaPito]

Anyone taking bets on this?:NoNo:

Don't worry, it won't happen. Look at what Joe said...2nd post I believe.

Its comical, beyond words.

[andy222]

I wish I had your confidence mate.

[Terpe]

I wish I had your confidence mate.

To be honest I also thought that in terms of 'Human Rights' it would be very difficult for the govt to introduce these restrictions.

I'm not wanting to be negative, and maybe I'm making 2+2=5 but look here:-
http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/34637-Possible-Changes-to-European-Human-Rights-Laws?p=324465&highlight=#post324465

The govt are set to implement some changes to 'Human Rights' laws that most people in UK would strongly support.
The words be careful what you wish for come to mind when linking human rights with UK immigration rules.
Or are the govt not that smart?

[andy222]

One thing though terpe I may be wrong but I have not seen anything about it on tv. It seems like they are keeping this one very quiet.

[grahamw48]

To be honest I also thought that in terms of 'Human Rights' it would be very difficult for the govt to introduce these restrictions.

I'm not wanting to be negative, and maybe I'm making 2+2=5 but look here:-
http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/34637-Possible-Changes-to-European-Human-Rights-Laws?p=324465&highlight=#post324465


Or are the govt not that smart?

Going by past performance they have the combined intelligence of 650 Amoebae.:rolleyes:

[jlags90]

Hi RickyR...Is this already implemented? Because my husband he earned £8 per hour. We are more worried coz I didnt apply yet my visa. Thanks for posting this important topic. We want only more on clarification.

That means we should get the visa approval before this so-called solution will be implemented!

[Arthur Little]

Ask any Brit :anerikke: ... and you'll find a high percentage in FAVOUR of measures to curb immigration - simply because they're unlikely to be affected by them to the extent that most of our membership is - and therein lies the rub!

[lastlid]

Ask any Brit :anerikke: ... and you'll find a high percentage in FAVOUR of measures to curb immigration - simply because they're unlikely to be affected by them to the extent that most of our membership is - and therein lies the rub!

I think you have hit the nail on the head, Arthur. And that is why it will never be dealt with in a fair way.

[lastlid]

That means we should get the visa approval before this so-called solution will be implemented!

Hi. If possible, yes. As we just don't know what will happen next. I am guessing there will be a larger than normal number of applications going in before the changes are implemented, so all the more reason to get the application in soon. If it was me I would try and get my application in very much sooner than later, if I could.

[John_10]

Well lastlid I think Maricris has read your post she is :xxaction-smiley-047 and bending my ears to sort out quickly.
Make sence to apply as soon as poss as we dont know whats going to happen.

[lastlid]

Well lastlid I think Maricris has read your post she is :xxaction-smiley-047 and bending my ears to sort out quickly.
Make sence to apply as soon as poss as we dont know whats going to happen.

Hi. I dont mean to create panic. If I have then I apologise. But if you can then I would say go ahead as soon you can.

[Terpe]

Hi. I dont mean to create panic. If I have then I apologise. But if you can then I would say go ahead as soon you can.

Sorry, but I would agree. Sooner is going to to much better than later.
No-one really knows for sure but the 'writing is on the wall', so to speak.

I would advise anyone now, with all the issues around us get your applications lodged before end of March 2012 unless you are very sure of your position.
Plenty of info on the threads/posts here for review. Make up your mind.

[grahamw48]

Blimey, we haven't even met yet ! :doh

[joebloggs]

Sorry, but I would agree. Sooner is going to to much better than later.
No-one really knows for sure but the 'writing is on the wall', so to speak.



also visa prices will probably increase on the 2 April 2012 :angry:

[joebloggs]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15758588

Applications for spouse/partner visa by nationality, 2010

Pakistan: 6,460 (16% of total)
India: 3,940 (10%)
US: 2,490 (6%)
Nepal: 2,050 (5%)
Bangladesh: 1,670 (4%)
Thailand: 1,605 (4%)
Philippines: 1,385 (3%)
Turkey: 1,260 (3%)
Nigeria: 1,150 (3%)
S Africa: 1,105 (3%)



Nepal 5% :Erm: whats going on here then :rolleyes: usa double the number from the phils..

[John_10]

Your not creating panic with us lastlid just trying to get the wife going...:icon_lol: Hi Sweetheart But with all the uncertainty..and with what Joe said visa prices going up. Apply as soon as we can.

[Arthur Little]

also visa prices will probably increase on the 2 April 2012 :angry:

:icon_lol: ... it'll be April 1 if they DON'T !

[joebloggs]

:icon_lol: ... it'll be April 1 if they DON'T !

they done it on the 1st in the past, but the first working day of April is the 2nd :icon_lol:

[lastlid]

Yes. We know something is going to happen around that date and it aint going to be a 50% discount or buy one get one free or anything like that.

[Danieljohnson]

I believe these plans to be wrong and will only impact on the genuine couples such as myself. I do agree that the family route is being abused but don't ruin genuine couples a right to be a couple. Despite the abuse there is genuine couple out there.

[gWaPito]

A price hike won't make any difference for the demand for visas.

You only got to look at the prices of visas of yesteryear and still the demand increases.

Like coffin nails and booze, people will find the money.

[brokenpieces]

Does this proposal only affects spousal visa? or it also affects EEA?


and by the way RickyR you mentioned the real problem is the welfare state... so what exactly is the problem with the welfare state?

[joebloggs]

Does this proposal only affects spousal visa? or it also affects EEA?


and by the way RickyR you mentioned the real problem is the welfare state... so what exactly is the problem with the welfare state?

no the gov can not discriminate against Europeans only its own citizens can it victimize :NoNo:

nothing wrong with the welfare state, its people that abuse it are the problem :angry:

[brokenpieces]

hmmm ok... too bad... yeah kinda lame abusing the benefits... it would be ok if there's really good reason to use it but just to make money out of it really lame..... well I just read about that link regarding this news..... LOL maybe England will no longer be England but Ingland :P :Rasp: coz they might get outnumbered by the Indians since they are migrating there yearly wow 4000? seriously? Well if only I speak a different language fluently like maybe Spanish or French or Italian maybe I'll just ask my husband to go to those country but since the only other language I can speak better is English then oh well......other english speaking countries like Canada, USA, Australia hmmmm well we will both need VISA in UK I am the only one who needs it he doesn't need one so.... and we won't be able to visit his parents and grandmas that often coz those other english speaking country are far from his country and I want to see Harry Potter hahahahahahaha:icon_lol: