Advice Needed. Re Letter of Reconsideration.

[sim&lil]

My wifes spouse visa has been refused by UKBA. My question to you is this, does the Embassy still accept a letter of reconsideration or will they only accept the full appeal form? If we sent a letter of reconsideration who would we need to send it to at the embassy. The refusal was due to my wife misunderstanding a question about her child. She omitted to put him on the form as she believed the question was asking if we had children and not if she had children with another.
We got a call on Tuesday from an ECO from the embassy who asked my wife if she had a child, my wife stated that she did indeed have a child. The guy then asked why she had not put him on the form, she then explained to the ECO that she believed the question meant children with me. We accept now this is of course not what the question meant. My wife never meant to decieve the immigration service and has made an honest mistake. Is it worth in your opinion making a letter of reconsideration. In my opinion the ECO understood her explination, but of course could not find in her favour.If we did write a letter would we need to attach the birth certificate of the child?

Any advice/help warmly appreciated.

[joebloggs]

any other reasons for refusal or was that the only reason ??
oh yes, write a letter straight away asking for reconsideration to the EC manager explaining the mis-understanding. also be prepared to send the appeal form in b4 the deadline, if you don't hear anything from the embassy say within a week or so, many appeals are won and UKBA might even issue the visa b4 the appeal date.so get a move on and good luck :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[sim&lil]

The reason givn was along the lines of " local checks showed you had a child which you did not disclose on your application form, therefore I am refusing you application". Not word for word but very close.

I understand the reason for refusal, what pisses me off is this. Why bother phoning us if they already knew, my wife never denied it over the phone and explained it. If he was going to refuse it why bother phoning?

Letter will be drafted tomorrow and sent via courier.

[Terpe]

Totally agree with joe.
You must send a letter immediately explaining that a genuine misunderstanding happened, that on getting the phone this was all explained and an apology for the mistake was made. You must be sure that you can clear any idea that deception was intended.
Also as joe says please do get your appeal lodged before the deadline.

My heart goes out to you both, it's just a mistake. Please don't be hard on each other these things can happen.

[aim_angel]

" local checks showed you had a child which you did not disclose on your application form, therefore I am refusing you application". .

I'm so sorry to her about the outcome... but wait ?! when you said "local check " does it mean they do the house investigation now?! or because of her own admittance? well just wondering :)

when I applied 5 years ago it's not that difficult. Goodluck and hope everything turn out fine :)

[aim_angel]

I'm so sorry to her about the outcome... but wait ?! when you said "local check " does it mean they do the house investigation now?! or because of her own admittance? well just wondering :)

when I applied 5 years ago it's not that difficult. Goodluck and hope everything turn out fine :)


sorry something is missing "hear" :doh

[sim&lil]

I'm so sorry to her about the outcome... but wait ?! when you said "local check " does it mean they do the house investigation now?! or because of her own admittance? well just wondering :)

when I applied 5 years ago it's not that difficult. Goodluck and hope everything turn out fine :)

I'm guessing local checks means using the NSO etc. We certainly ddn't have anyone come to our home.

[joebloggs]

I'm guessing local checks means using the NSO etc. We certainly ddn't have anyone come to our home.

'local checks' use to be one of the main reasons given by the embassy when some people asked the embassy why their visa app was taking so long .

i'm sure the embassy dont carry out as many 'local checks' now or just at random as some people have got their visa in a matter of days and also the embassy rarely ask people to come to the embassy for a interview now.

[Sim11UK]

Good luck! with this, hope the mistake is rectified & overturned quickly. :)

[sim&lil]

I sent the details of the refusal to my sister in the UK, she told me she would let her lawyer friend take a look at it. Also we found the UKBA refusal flow chart on the website, if they believe it to be an "innocent mistake" they have to overturn the verdict. So fingers crossed the reviewer believes my wifes genuine mistake. Thank you all for the advice and your kind words, it means a great deal to me and the Mrs.

[Terpe]

I sent the details of the refusal to my sister in the UK, she told me she would let her lawyer friend take a look at it. Also we found the UKBA refusal flow chart on the website, if they believe it to be an "innocent mistake" they have to overturn the verdict. So fingers crossed the reviewer believes my wifes genuine mistake. Thank you all for the advice and your kind words, it means a great deal to me and the Mrs.

I'm sure the EC Manager will overturn.
It's difficult to imagine they will see grounds for anything other than 'innocent mistake'

Our thoughts are with you both. Just another challenge you really don't need right now though.
Think positive.

[sim&lil]

Another question for you all. If they find in our favour after review, would the ECO be looking for another reason to refuse or will it be judged on just the reason for refusal? For example lack of funds in bank etc or have these already been taken into account? Thanks in advance.

[Terpe]

Another question for you all. If they find in our favour after review, would the ECO be looking for another reason to refuse or will it be judged on just the reason for refusal? For example lack of funds in bank etc or have these already been taken into account? Thanks in advance.

With refusals it's often the case the more than one reason will be mentioned. In your case no other application weakness has been mentioned by the ECO.
It's not normally the case that a different reason for refusal is pulled from the hat. If finances were marginal I would have expected the ECO to have cited that if he had sufficient doubts.

From all you've said it looks to be related only to the application and missing/incorrect information.

To be honest, I'm still surprised that following the telephone discussion, the ECO took the decision to refuse.

[sim&lil]

Just for clarification here is the whole refusal statement.

" You have signed your application form to say the information given is true. However local checks have revealed that you have a child in the Philippines that you have not declared on your application form. I am satisfied therefore that false statement have been made in your application under section 26(I)(c) of the immigration act 1971, making false representation to an Entry Clearance officer is a criminal offence. I am not satisfied that the rest of your application is accurate. As material facts were not disclosed and false representation have been made in relation to your application, it is refused under paragraph 320 (7A) of the immigration rules. I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied on the balance of probabilities that you met all of the requirements of the relevant paragraph of the UK immigration rules."

Does this change your opinion of our chances at an overturned decision? Or is this a standard response on a refusal?

[sim&lil]

Is the ECO duty bound to put every reason for refusal in their refusal statement or do they just put one and bring up the others when a decision is appealed? Sorry for all the questions but we need it clear in our heads on how to proceed.

[Terpe]

............Does this change your opinion of our chances at an overturned decision? Or is this a standard response on a refusal?

Sorry to say this but seeing this actual wording makes a huge difference..

This is by no means a standard response or indeed a standard case.

Looks like they have taken a hard line on this as the ECO has actually quoted section 26(I)(c) of the immigration act 1971 which is listed under criminal offence for a statement or representation which he knows to be false or does not believe to be true.

A refusal under Paragraph 320 (7A) of the immigration rules is serious stuff and concerns cases where false representations have been made or false documents have been submitted (whether or not material to the application, and whether or not to the applicant's knowledge), or material facts have not been disclosed, in relation to the application.

Under such circumstances the ECO has no other choice but to refuse.
There is really no 'wriggle room' at all, and I'm no longer confident that the ECM has authority to overturn. Hope I completely wrong though.

This is actually serious stuff and I strongly suggest you seek the advice and support of an experienced specialist immigration advisor asap.

Normally for the refusal to be made under 320 (7A) UKBA would need positive evidence that either deception or false representations have been made, or that false documents have been submitted.

Not trying to overstate this but please do seek professional assistance from someone who know how to handle all the legal implications.

It is serious.

[Terpe]

Please do continue with your letter asking for reconsideration. Be sure to place the highest emphasis on the fact that a genuine mistake was made, that no deception was intended.

Be sure to get the appeal done on time.

Start the ball rolling asap with an Immigration specialist/adviser/lawyer who has experience and knows the caselaw. You should be able to secure basic information on a free consulatation basis.

No need to fork out money just yet, just prepare and research whatever you can.
Wait for the consideration letter to be acted upon.

[Terpe]

Is the ECO duty bound to put every reason for refusal in their refusal statement or do they just put one and bring up the others when a decision is appealed? Sorry for all the questions but we need it clear in our heads on how to proceed.

Under your specific application review, the ECO has no option and no authority but to summarily refuse the application.

[sim&lil]

Thank you so much for all your help. Time to get busy I guess.

[joebloggs]

I'm hoping things are not that bleak Terpe

read the following ..

http://freemovement.wordpress.com/2010/09/29/entry-clearance-deception-refusals/

and the comment by Davies Khan ( if your letter of reconsideration doesn't get your refusal over turned, it might be worth contacting Davies Khan as he has a very good reputation)

A client was refused visit entry clearance (Bangkok) on deception grounds for failing to disclose the existence of her child on the VAF, a fact that became apparent when spoken to by the ECO over the phone. That she freely admitted during the conversation to having a child was indicative of there being no deception, but the ECO chose to disregard this.

Representations to the ECM resulted in the decpetion allegation being withdrawn, and a second visit visa application was successful.

so as your wife freely admitted the child there was no deception. :rolleyes:

[Terpe]

I'm hoping things are not that bleak Terpe

read the following ..

http://freemovement.wordpress.com/2010/09/29/entry-clearance-deception-refusals/

and the comment by Davies Khan ( if your letter of reconsideration doesn't get your refusal over turned, it might be worth contacting Davies Khan as he has a very good reputation)

A client was refused visit entry clearance (Bangkok) on deception grounds for failing to disclose the existence of her child on the VAF, a fact that became apparent when spoken to by the ECO over the phone. That she freely admitted during the conversation to having a child was indicative of there being no deception, but the ECO chose to disregard this.

Representations to the ECM resulted in the decpetion allegation being withdrawn, and a second visit visa application was successful.

so as your wife freely admitted the child there was no deception. :rolleyes:

Well done joe, great find and great piece of caselaw. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Wasn't trying to sound too bleak, that's why I suggested to continue with the letter of reconsideration before spending money on professional help.
This one went outside my experience so I wanted to be very cautious.

How terrible that the ECO knew it was not deception but continued anyway.
Although probably the ECO has no authority to grant a visa on a 'misrepresented' application.

There you have it sim&lil caselaw already done for you.

Thanks to joe things look a lot better.

[gWaPito]

Well done Joe :xxgrinning--00xx3:

You have saved at least a couple of forum members some sleepness nights.:)

[joebloggs]

Wasn't trying to sound too bleak, that's why I suggested to continue with the letter of reconsideration before spending money on professional help.


Terpe, I know you wasn't, as all your posts are very informative based on facts, rules and regulations, and many people on this forum are very thankful to you
:icon_sorry::xxgrinning--00xx3:

i just hope it takes a letter of reconsideration and sim&lil can get on with their life's :rolleyes:

Well done Joe :xxgrinning--00xx3:

You have saved at least a couple of forum members some sleepness nights.:)

how's your little one doing gwaPito ? little joe is 5 now :yikes::Jump: he knows he needs 'paper money' to buy many of the toys he wants now :cwm24:

[gWaPito]

Our not so little one is doing brilliantly thank you. So much so I hate leaving them both to go to work.:NoNo:

He certainly means everything to us..our world and to think we'll be having another next spring...how lucky are we.

Life is great :)

[lastlid]

Sorry to hear of the refusal.

We put both of my children down on the form, from my previous marriage. Age, place of birth, name etc. I was advised to do this. At the time I couldn't see why they needed to know. But obviously they take that info seriously.

Good luck with the reconsideration.

[gWaPito]

Sorry to hear of the refusal.

We put both of my children down on the form, from my previous marriage. Age, place of birth, name etc. I was advised to do this. At the time I couldn't see why they needed to know. But obviously they take that info seriously.

Good luck with the reconsideration.

Me too...even though both my grown ups are both 30yo and leading there own independent lives, they still wanted to know.

I Jane asking why on earth do they want to know the details of people whole have nothing to do with my application. Rather than question it we just told them what they wanted to know.

Im all for an easy life. Life's complicated enough without adding to it.

Good Luck with the appeal.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[sim&lil]

thanks so much too all of you.
Again heres state for my rights of appeal to make everything clear.

"You are entitled to appeal againts this decision under section 82(1) of theNationality ,Immigration and Asylum Act 2002.If you wish to appeal you must complete the attached IAFT-2 Notice of appeal form.An information sheet also been provided. Should you require further advice assistance pleas visit www.justice.gove.uk

If you decide to appeal againts refusal of this application,the decision will be reviewd with your grounds of appeal and the supporting documents you provide.You strongly adviced to complete all section of the form and submit all relevant documents with your notice of appeal,As it maybe possible to resolve the points at isuue without an appeal hearing."



my question is What relevant documents I needed to provide ??? I am so confused now.
and another question is there any chance for me to apply in other application if I did not appeal ?
thanks so much ....

[joebloggs]

yes you can make a new application, and as your applying for a spouse visa, the refusal i think shouldn't effect the new application.

you might want to consider making a new application instead of it going to appeal, as the appeal process could take around 6 months, while a new application maybe 2 months or less.

if i was you, i would write a letter to the EC manager, with a printout of the website, stating that your circumstances are the same, no deception was meant, and ask them to reconsider your application and to grant the visa, as it was granted in the post by davies khan,

[lastlid]

...even though both my grown ups are both 30yo and leading there own independent lives, they still wanted to know.



Yes. Same here. My daughter is 29 but I was advised to put her name and date and place of birth down. I thought at first it was to be able to weigh up any maintenance payments and thought that at 29 they would know I dont make any maintenance payments for her because of her age. But I was advised to put her detail down, all the same.

[joebloggs]

also from Davies Khan..

False representations - what are they?

Is an innocent mistake, rather than a deliberate attempt to lie, a false representation? The OED defines "false" as meaning both!

Does this mean that someone who unwittingly makes an incorrect statement on a visa application form should suffer the same penalty as their counterpart who sets out to lie?

That's the basis upon which the UKBA was operating, but the Court of Appeal has now found otherwise:-

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2010/773.html

[sim&lil]

That was hard going. So in your opinion my wife has only been refused because she didn't declare her son on the application form?

[sim&lil]

Iam so confussed about false reprentation or false document.under 320(7A).
please I need a clear though about this.In my refusal is the false documents applied? please help me I need to know because I am really really confused.help me.

[Terpe]

sim&lil,
What is it specifically that you are confused about?

From the information you have shared, the refusal was issued for failure to disclose requested information about children.

Despite the explanations given to the ECO during a verification telephone discussion, the application was refused.

Your first step is to send a letter to the ECM detailing the root-cause of the issue, why it should not be considered as deception or false representation, the details of the telephone discussion with the ECO, and urgently requesting a reconsideration of the ECO's decision.

Focus on the fact that the submission was made in good faith and with full honesty and full genuine supporting documentations, that no deception was intended
and that all allegations be withdrawn.

You need to get this letter organised and sent pretty quickly.

Also, very importantly, don't forget to have your appeal lodged within the given time constraints.

Good luck, if you have more questions please ask.

No offence intended my friend, I'm just concerned that you don't seem to be making the needed progress.

[lastlid]

Sorry. Decided to remove the posting as it was written in error.

[sim&lil]

Letter and appeal are all sorted,going in the post tomorrow. Emailed Davies Kahn as suggested and was given the same advice as Terpe and Joebloggs suggested.

Thank you for all the helpful advice and thanks for finding all the case studies, that was very kind of you to do. Mr Davies believes we have a good chance at getting the verdict overturned.

Again thanks for the help during this stressfull time.

[joebloggs]

. Mr Davies believes we have a good chance at getting the verdict overturned.

Again thanks for the help during this stressfull time.

lets hope so ..:rolleyes:
good luck :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Terpe]

Letter and appeal are all sorted,going in the post tomorrow. Emailed Davies Kahn as suggested and was given the same advice as Terpe and Joebloggs suggested.

Thank you for all the helpful advice and thanks for finding all the case studies, that was very kind of you to do. Mr Davies believes we have a good chance at getting the verdict overturned.

Again thanks for the help during this stressfull time.

All co-forumers are behind you both and send all prayers and positivity for the best outcome.
Here's wishing the best future for you both.

[andy222]

Yes best of luck mate.

[elvie89]

i hope this can be corrected i just sent an email to the foreign office of uk about my refusal,but still waiting for there responds.hope things can be corrected cos im quite sure i have meet all the requirements..and in your situation i believe you have all the chances..lets hope and pray..God bless to you both.

[Terpe]

i hope this can be corrected i just sent an email to the foreign office of uk about my refusal,but still waiting for there responds.hope things can be corrected cos im quite sure i have meet all the requirements..and in your situation i believe you have all the chances..lets hope and pray..God bless to you both.

Elvie,
Did you send to the Foreign Office or the Embassy/UKBA?

What visa did you apply for?
What was the reason given for your refusal?

Maybe this forum can help you.

[sim&lil]

Ok, the letter has been sent via Aboitiz 2GO, judging by the state of their office it could end up in Cuba :rolleyes:. Appeal forms almost complete for sending, just making sure we have got everything right this time. A quick question, as the appeal is a bit of a he said/she said situation we don't really have any extra documents to add, do you think it's worth adding the childs birth certificate to the appeal, just to show we are not dening his existence?

Many thanks as always.