All In Favour?

[andy222]

What are your feelings about the proposed strike Guys?

[KeithD]

The union leaders are all inbred from the 70's and have no idea of the real world living in nice little cocoons while collecting top pay and pensions :doh

Did you know that the union can call for a vote on strike action, get only 3 votes, and if 2 say yes they have the majority for strike action :Erm: .... they should require at least a 50% turnout. I see this article agrees with me http://www.social-statistics.org/?p=315

[joebloggs]

strike, who's going to look after me 2 kids while the teachers go on strike, my little girl just had 2 days off school as they closed the school for teacher training, why the :censored: can't they do the training in the 13wks a year the school is shut :angry:

oh my misses will have to take the day off, probably like many others who work for the NHS will also have to :angry:

[stevewool]

this day and age most are lucky to have work

[grahamw48]

I am tired of these people screwing up my boy's education. :angry:

For most of my working life I have been self-employed, meaning....no do some work = no eat.

I wish some of these over-paid over-zealous union stirrers would go and try planting rice in a 3rd world country for a few weeks, and find out what real work and poverty is, or graft on construction sites for 12 hour shifts in 30C+ as I used to do....same for the spoiled brat workers like teachers, most of whom have never tasted life and work outside of a classroom in their whole lives. :rolleyes:

This country feather-beds too many people as it is, and nobody has the right to a job at the expense of others.

[les_taxi]

Bloody idiots half of them don't even know what they are striking for I bet:censored:
You want to make the country a worse state than it already is then go-ahead:NoNo:

[Jamesey]

I can't believe that the unions are proposing a strike during these difficult times. They should be ashamed of themselves. :cwm23:

The public sector already have generous pension terms. Even with the proposed reforms, their pensions will still be much better than those in the private sector.

If these people don't like their pay and conditions, they should quit their jobs and face reality of the private sector like the rest of us.

[Arthur Little]

What are your feelings about the proposed strike Guys?

:nono-1-1: ... I CANNOT condone key workers holding the country to ransom when :Britain: is in the doldrums.

[Arthur Little]

MOREOVER :olddude: ... speaking in my capacity as a retired public sector worker, I can VOUCH for the fact that they have less justification for taking strike action than MOST!

[grahamw48]

Too true Arthur.

My early career was spent as a civil servant.

The higher the promotion, the longer the tea breaks. :rolleyes:

[Arthur Little]

The higher the promotion, the longer the tea breaks. :rolleyes:

That's just about the "SIZE" of it Graham ... :iagree:!

[Arthur Little]

civil servants ...

... quite a few of the ones I'd the misfortune to work with were ANYTHING but civil ! :Rasp:

[andy222]

Retired public sector worker Arthur you must be loaded with cash.? Graham is well off too.:xxgrinning--00xx3: Nice pensions guys?

[grahamw48]

Nope.

I left the Civil Service when I was 26 and went into self-employment....probably one of the original 'Yuppys' then for a few years, living the high life and not worrying about tomorrow.

I have since been through a divorce....nuff said. :rolleyes:

[andy222]

Im only joking Graham I just posted this for the reaction. Its putting our borders at big risk though.

[grahamw48]

I've few regrets, except not buying more property when I could have afforded it, and not keeping this particular car, one of the two that I owned. (Lotus 7).

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http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/210/mylotus79lr.jpg

[RickyR]

As much as I hate the way unions seem to lose the concept of reality at times, they do have a serious place in the British workforce and ensure that the terms and conditions that previous generations worked hard for aren't eroded away.
As for teachers; my Mum is a Head Teacher of a Primary School in a deprived area (most children are social services watchlist etc etc), and I know the amount of work she does, and the demands placed on her. I wouldn't get out of bed for her salary, and think that if they want to attract educated people to the career, they need to have realistic salaries. What gets published in the papers is usually the very top end of the scale. I also would probably get arrested for grevious bodily harm or murder within a few hours of becoming a teacher with the behaviour and attitude of some of the kids, hence why I'm not a teacher and why I'm pretty much putting every penny I've got into putting my kids through private school.

[andy222]

You wouldnt get out of bed for what I do too Ricky but someones got to do it.:icon_lol: We all have regrets of one sort or another Graham. Nice car though.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[philuk]

I've few regrets, except not buying more property when I could have afforded it, and not keeping this particular car, one of the two that I owned. (Lotus 7).

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http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/210/mylotus79lr.jpg

MMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmm nice set of wheels my boy :icon_sorry:, explains the hair do

[Terpe]

I spent nearly 10 years working in the Public Sector.
Most of the people working in the public are not looking forward to those so called gold-plated pensions that the media are so fond of misleading people with.

I agree that these big unions often do not act in the 'public interest'. But lets understand just why unions are calling for industrial action.
It's because the government proposals on lower indexation, higher pension age, career salary averaging and accrual could very easily reduce the value of future pension benefits earned by between a third and a half. That's a really big impact.

If that would happen to your pension how would you feel?

The government has already agreed and accepted that the overwhelming majority of public sector pensions are neither gold-plated nor unsustainable.Not like private sector.

Average public service pensions in the main schemes vary between £4,000 and £9,000 per annum because of the differing pay levels of staff. Most people are on very mediocre salaries with a big percentage being part time workers.

Another aspect is that the government is very well placed to provide pensions for its employees at a lower cost than private sector employers because it does not need to be protected against volatile investment markets. Also because of the economies of scale.
There's really no reason nor sense why the government should cost public service pensions in the same way as a private employer would. Furthermore there's no reason to use its advantage to maintain a benefit crucial to recruiting and retaining staff in the public services.

Private sector employers, have significantly cut back on pension benefits so many times over the years and in so many of their own schemes. Private sector employers have often acting irresponsibly by misusing the pension pots of their employees. So much so that quite simply many schemes became unsustainable for the rank & file members. Now there is pressure on the government to reduce
public sector schemes jusy as they needed to do as well.
But look, if costs are firmly under control and the pension pots are sustainable, why should public sector pensions be reduced even further. Why reduce them below levels that were established many years ago?
Why should tomorrow's public service pensioners be so much worse off than today? Why??

These people see themselves as ordinary employees paying for their pension from their own salaries.
Yes, it's true that the government is the employer and is paying the salary and making a pension contribution, but why should that contribution be reduced just because the private sector took decisions on private pensions that resulted in poor outcomes?
Where was the media reaction on that? Where was the public outcry on the private sector who actually stole from those pension pots.

And who is paying for the Pension Protection Scheme? Yes the taxpayer, but no-one is shouting for that scheme to be devalued.

No-one really wants to go on strike. Many union members will be on strike for fear of peer pressure. Have you been in that situation?

This strike shouldn't happen, we all know that. There should be calm negotiation, but that's not how it sits right now.

Just putting another view that at least deserves intelligent consideration.

[gWaPito]

As much as I hate the way unions seem to lose the concept of reality at times, they do have a serious place in the British workforce and ensure that the terms and conditions that previous generations worked hard for aren't eroded away.
As for teachers; my Mum is a Head Teacher of a Primary School in a deprived area (most children are social services watchlist etc etc), and I know the amount of work she does, and the demands placed on her. I wouldn't get out of bed for her salary, and think that if they want to attract educated people to the career, they need to have realistic salaries. What gets published in the papers is usually the very top end of the scale. I also would probably get arrested for grevious bodily harm or murder within a few hours of becoming a teacher with the behaviour and attitude of some of the kids, hence why I'm not a teacher and why I'm pretty much putting every penny I've got into putting my kids through private school.

Good post :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I agree wholeheartedly. If it weren't for the union on the site I work we'd all be working night and day for peanuts....we are still working night and day, though.

Even In this day and age health and safety issues still arise, if my employer can save a penny at our expense, they will.

The Unions are not all from the same mold as Robinson and Scargill although, the press would dearly love the British public to believe it does.

My union has saved my bacon on a couple of occasions, for that, for as long as im working here they can rely on my monthly subscriptions.

[grahamw48]

Yes, to be fair it does depend on what work you do, but there is still far too much interference from the EU in my opinion, and that has probably done as much to screw up the prospects of companies and their workers in this country as any union actions. :rolleyes:

[andy222]

Terpe I agree 100% mate. I think we still live in a country of (Im alright jack). Thats what thatcher has bred into people. Sorry if I offend anybody.

[Englishman2010]

I haven't read all the comments, apologies if I repeat what anyone else has said.

The unions are scum and should be ashamed of themselves:cwm23: What planet are they on? Britain is broke, the old people are living longer and drawing their pensions for longer, the pot is empty and their pension rights have to change. Public sector workers really pee me off, they have the best pensions and they are heavily subsidized by me, the taxpayer. I don't have a taxpayer funded superannuation scheme, I have to make my own retirement provision, only I can't afford to pay much into it because I'm paying too much in tax to support the pensions of the lazy, public service, militant scum:cwm23:
If they go on strike they should all be sacked and replaced by one of the 2.6 million people on the dole

[grahamw48]

Wow. :D

[andy222]

See what I mean?. I rest my case. Every one is entitled to their opinion. Wait till they upset our muslim friends then you will see some fireworks.

[Englishman2010]

See what I mean?. I rest my case. Every one is entitled to their opinion.

:xxgrinning--00xx3: Sorry if I went off on one Andy, just had a stressful day:icon_lol:

[andy222]

No problem mate its a open debate not a argument.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

A good thing Dedworth and Les haven't got wind of this one yet. :laugher:

[Englishman2010]

A good thing Dedworth and Les haven't got wind of this one yet. :laugher:

Ded's probably out celebrating, Chelsea actually won a game today:icon_lol:

[gWaPito]

'Unions are scum'.....a tad strong although, I respect your opinion :xxgrinning--00xx3: ....a good definition of scum is the two youths who attacked stole and killed a 78yo lady for her handbag carrying her late husband's ashes today...In Oldham, Lancashire.

What a sick country we live in. People want to leave there third world to live in that environment. :NoNo:

[grahamw48]

I certainly agree about the old lady's murder.

Just too awful to think about, poor woman.

I'm all in favour of capital punishment where guilt is beyond doubt. :angry:

[gWaPito]

I certainly agree about the old lady's murder.

Just too awful to think about, poor woman.

I'm all in favour of capital punishment where guilt is beyond doubt. :angry:

Can you imagine living your life with your partner for 50 odd years then, it all ending like that.

That story has gotten to me, perhaps its me realising my own mortality plus thoughts of my babies...who knows :NoNo:

No wonder some our brave troops come back from active tours messed up.

[grahamw48]

They have arrested a 14 year-old and a 17 year-old. :NoNo:

I hope they jail the parent(s) too. :angry:

[sars_notd_virus]

What are your feelings about the proposed strike Guys?

I hate it!! the school is close on wednesday because of this strike!! meaning... i will lost a 100quid becoz i am having a day off work:cwm23:

[joebloggs]

I certainly agree about the old lady's murder.

Just too awful to think about, poor woman.

I'm all in favour of capital punishment where guilt is beyond doubt. :angry:

my misses told me while working last night, that at 5pm some of the departments were alerted of a RTA, but it was in fact a 68yr old man who was stabbed many times in his back :NoNo:. some youth knocked on his door around 5pm so it was getting dark, asked if he could use his toilet, while the man turned he was stabbed in the back many times, and as he turned around to protect himself, he was also stabbed in his hand, my misses did her bit and stitched his little finger up, i dont think any of the wounds are life threatening, whats gone wrong with society, that someone would do this :NoNo:, if they catch the low life he should be charged with attempted murder and be given at least 15yrs in prison.

[RickyR]

For the original topic, I really think that anyone who thinks that unions are awful and striking is terrible should take a good hard long look at the standards and working conditions they have? I wonder how those were provided.
It's the basics of democracy, that a group of people can stand together as a collective to fight for what they believe in.
When I was working for a corporation, I spent a lot of time preventing benefits eroded away and encourage salary increases at least in line with inflation, we worked hard to improve benefits and conditions. I attended meetings with crew who were about to be truly screwed over because they weren't aware of the employment conditions.
When I left the recession hit and the company was trying to remove those benefits, whilst I suggested that an agreement was put in place to ensure that when the share price returns to a certain level the benefits are returned, no-one fought for that and those benefits are lost.

For those public sector workers, THE PEOPLE WITHOUT THE GOLD PLATED PENSIONS many of whom are professional people, have a right to protect their interests. If they've been told for their whole career they can expect this or this pension and then suddenly they reach 55 and and are told 'sorry recession, say goodbye to that' and its all changed, is this fair? I know some people in the private sector might be upset because they haven't received their pay rises this year or see the state of the economy, but thats not the fault of these low end public sector workers.

If your with a big company and your not in a union, then I think your mad and when the union people gain better conditions and rights, the non union people should be left behind on the old conditions? Sound Fair?

[RickyR]

As for the acts of violence against the elderly, DISGUSTING! My blood boils thinking about it.

[Terpe]

............ Public sector workers really pee me off, they have the best pensions and they are heavily subsidized by me, the taxpayer. I don't have a taxpayer funded superannuation scheme, I have to make my own retirement provision, only I can't afford to pay much into it because I'm paying too much in tax to support the pensions of the lazy, public service, militant scum:cwm23:
If they go on strike they should all be sacked and replaced by one of the 2.6 million people on the dole

I'm sure you were having a bad day Ian.
But, sorry to say, even though I do not believe that this kind of strike is either needed or wanted at this time. I certainly cannot agree with the sweeping statements you made there about public sector workers.

Working in the public sector means working for the government.
Jobs in the public sector include:-

The Armed Forces (Army, Air Force, Navy)
The Emergency Services (Ambulance, Fire, Police)
Teaching and Education
NHS (doctors, nurses and medical staff etc)
Her Majesty's Prison Service
Civil Service

Public sector employment totals just over 6 million. More than 20% of the total UK workforce.

You know that it's just not possible to 'pick and choose' which areas we want to support with our taxes and which areas we do not want to support with our taxes.
The idea is that the pot of money is there for ALL.

How many billions of our taxes are being stolen by fraud and deception.

As I say, I'm not supporting this specific industrial action, but I can understand the root causes.

I don't accept the view that public sector workers should be disparaged for doing the jobs that are wanted, needed and highly valued simply because they are funded by government.
Governments don't have any income other than from taxes.

[joebloggs]

Governments don't have any income other than from taxes.

probably not any more as the family sliver had been sold off long ago under thatcher,

maybe its time the gov did find other ways, if the co op bank can makes £100s of millions of profit, why cant one owned the tax payer? what about the big banks, Barclay made a profit of £5 billion in the first 9 months of this year. use that money to build 100,000s of houses that working people can afford to rent.

[grahamw48]

I agree there is a shortage of public housing (right to buy was ridiculous IMO, except it made me a fortune selling insulation to them), don't know where my OAP bungalow is coming from. :cwm3:

What is galling is that it appears all the usual miscreants, lead-swingers and asylum seekers will get first pick anyway, and those who have actually paid into the system for years and reproduced responsibly will have NO CHANCE...as per usual. :NoNo:

[andy222]

Governments past and present have caused all the problems. Never seen a poor MP though. However I would love to go to Thatchers funeral just to make sure she is down the hole. Or in the oven. She was part of the reason we have nothing now. Labour have made some howlers too.

[gWaPito]

my misses told me while working last night, that at 5pm some of the departments were alerted of a RTA, but it was in fact a 68yr old man who was stabbed many times in his back :NoNo:. some youth knocked on his door around 5pm so it was getting dark, asked if he could use his toilet, while the man turned he was stabbed in the back many times, and as he turned around to protect himself, he was also stabbed in his hand, my misses did her bit and stitched his little finger up, i dont think any of the wounds are life threatening, whats gone wrong with society, that someone would do this :NoNo:, if they catch the low life he should be charged with attempted murder and be given at least 15yrs in prison.
I was talking to Jane about that Oldham attack. She said Mark this happens everywhere not just here ...I dont think you can put all the blame on drugs.

YouOnly got to see whats available to watch on the internet...the only limitation is your own imagination...families are smaller in size compared from when I was born...the kids becoming insular, detached..shutting themselves in there rooms with only the pc for company....no wonder this sort of thing goes on.

What you described Joe was just awful...I admire people like your wife, really. I couldn't do that work...not the mental strength....we are all cogs and wheels with different functions, I guess.

[Arthur Little]

Retired public sector worker Arthur you must be loaded with cash.?

Hardly! :nono-1-1: ... after practically a quarter of a century in the lower echelons of public service - 6 years with the former National Coal Board ... then 19 as a local authority employee - my gross occupational pension currently lies midway between the two average annual amounts Terpe quotes in #20. ...

[Arthur Little]

... so"GOLD PLATED", my ar&e! :butthead:

[grahamw48]

I'm really not looking forward to my retirement. :cwm3:

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......unless I have a nice young lady to put some life back into me. :)

[Terpe]

I'm really not looking forward to my retirement. :cwm3:

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:)

Funny you should say that, but..........................................., you know what?

It's true.

For the second time today 'many a true word is.........................................'

But really it's so so true:)

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......unless I have a nice young lady to put some life back into me.

[andy222]

Hardly! :nono-1-1: ... after practically a quarter of a century in the lower echelons of public service - 6 years with the former National Coal Board ... then 19 as a local authority employee - my gross occupational pension currently lies midway between the two average annual amounts Terpe quotes in #20. ...

I thought you had missed that one Arthur!:laugher:. Sorry mate.

[joebloggs]

I'm really not looking forward to my retirement. :cwm3:

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......unless I have a nice young lady to put some life back into me. :)

:hubbahubba: is that a Sainsburys trolly you've got graham :rolleyes:,
mine will be from aldi or netto :cwm24:

[grahamw48]

Yeah.....but still a downgrade from my current wheels.

I'll never be able to afford the price of petrol then. :NoNo:

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[Dedworth]

Ded's probably out celebrating, Chelsea actually won a game today:icon_lol:

:icon_lol:

As regards the strikers led by bloated Fat Cat I'm all right Jack Union Bosses - They're a bunch of selfish, greedy ba$tards who should think themselves lucky to have a job

[Arthur Little]

mine will be from aldi or netto :cwm24: ...

... or Lidl, perhaps? :rolleyes:

[Arthur Little]

I thought you had missed that one Arthur!:laugher:. Sorry mate.

:) Nah ... I'd SEEN it, right enough ... it's just that I tend to be on here a bittie less frequently on Sundays. But no worries, Andy ... we're all friends engaging in good natured debate. That's what makes this forum so interesting! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

:icon_lol:

As regards the strikers led by bloated Fat Cat I'm all right Jack Union Bosses - They're a bunch of selfish, greedy ba$tards who should think themselves lucky to have a job

Aye ... I'd certainly be inclined to agree there! :yeahthat:

[grahamw48]

Don't hold back Dedworth. :icon_lol:

[gWaPito]

If you take your pensions to the Philippines you won't need to live in a trolley.....it'll save your nice lady from coming to this country.

The saying goes 'No gain without risk'.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Dedworth]

Aye ... I'd certainly be inclined to agree there! :yeahthat:

Just for the record I'll repeat what I posted on another thread recently

the 6 figure salaries of the Fat Cat Union bosses which 2009/10 are as follows

Derek Simpson Unite £186,626
Dave Prentis Unison £130,109
Matt Wrack Fire Brigades Union £117,230
Bob Crow RMT £113,011
Mark Serwotka PCSU £112,634

Former Communist Party member Bob Crow has copped a 12% increase this year

[Dedworth]

Union Barons Gold Plated Pensions :angry:

Union leaders behind the strike that could cripple the country on Wednesday are benefiting from hugely generous gold-plated pension schemes.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2066736/Union-barons-strike-cripple-Britain-enjoy-gold-plated-pensions.html#ixzz1f2sQYSM9