need help with child not coming to the uk

[mhynne]

hi there.. im new here.. i actually got this link from gina and peters website. i want to commend them first of all for such an informative website. it has helped me and my fiancee a lot.

i was wondering if someone can help me. bec im getting married to my british fiancee in august and we will be applying for my spousal visa after that. my situation with my 8 year old daughter is tricky because i have been married before, now annulled and my daughter will be staying in manila with my mother or my ex husband. she is actually raised by her father.. since i was the one who works and he doesnt. we have long been seperated but still remained in touch, he and his parents also helps me in supporting her. we both decided it is best for her to stay here bec of several reasons. like her adjusting there, her not used to really staying me.. etc.. we both decided that as soon as she graduates gradeschool or high school where in she will be more mature and can already decide for herself i would petition her given the fact that she wants to settle with us there.. also indicated in my annullment papers i have full custody of her. but of course we still shared custody as my ex is, although jobless, a wonderful father to my daughter.

my question is how to go about his during my visa application? will they wonder why am i not taking my daughter? what are the proofs that they will need? will this affect my visa application? also who to go about bringing her when she is older? can i apply already a tourist visa for her whilst im applying for my spousal?

sorry for the many questions but we are just so confused with this matter. hope some one can help me.. thanks..

[eljean]

its will not affect your visa...its a personal decision wether you decided to bring her with you in the uk or not...

you can still get here later at anytime she decided to be with you...

[mhynne]

thanks for the words of comfort..what do you think should i stipulate in the visa application? and what will be the required information or documentation that the embassy with her require with her staying here?

[mhynne]

thanks alot eljean.. my fiancee and i are really troubled about this.. its just really tricky.. :(

its hard enough to leave her here.. but we of course are doing it for her sake..

do you think we need to give the embassy a document stating that my mother and ex husband will be looking after her when i go?

[eljean]

im sorry bout that if i just deleted my reply i am not quite sure about it about bringing child to uk but try to using the search button in here coz there are few cases also that they have a child from the previous relationship and they just successfully bring it with them...

try to read this:
http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php?t=686&highlight=bring+child

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php?t=979&highlight=bring+child

[joebloggs]

you have to show you have 'sole responsiblity' for your child, you say you have 'full custody' of her, but then shes brought up by her father, and if you leave her to come to the uk, you will be leaving her with her father. iam no expert but if they interview her at the embassy, you might have problems with showing you have sole responsibilty.. the embassy might not like that her father is a major influence on her, last thing the embassy will want is to take a child away from a parent.

i've got my stepson here when he was 17, he had to go for an interview, they asked him about his father, but his bio father name was not on his birth cert, also his bio father lives in america, and we got him to write a letter of 'no support' meaning he never really had any contact with him, didnt support him financially.. and that he wanted his son to join his mom, sister and step dad in the uk.

also on your spouse visa, mention that you intend to bring your daugther to the uk when you are settled and when she has finished school.

but dont leave it too long, if she turns 18 without ILR, she might have a major problem getting ILR if she is 18+

good luck thou. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[mhynne]

the full custody is actually what is stated in the annullment papers.. but in real life she was brought up by her dad and i get her during my weekoff.. since i have to work nights for an IT company. so really its like a joint custody in real life.

so basically i still to prove to the embassy that i have sole custody of her even if we are really practicing joint custody? and also even if im not gonna bring her initially? sorry im just confused

[mhynne]

i saw in one of your posts joebloggs that your wife wasnt with her kids at first when she arrived there.. did i understand it right? can you share with me how to go about that? thanks

[joebloggs]

if your daughter is called to the embassy for an interview, they will ask her about her father, and from what you have said, maybe they could refuse it on grounds that you dont have 'sole responsibilty'.

link to refusal forumla for a child
read thru it and see the reasons why they can refuse it..

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/idischapter8annexes/section5/annexu.pdf?view=Binary


SOLE RESPONSIBILITY - PARAGRAPHS 297(i)(e), 298(i)(c) & 301(i)(b)
Where a child's parents are not married, or his parents' marriage subsists but they do not live together, or where the parents' marriage has been dissolved, a child may qualify under these Paragraphs to join or remain with one parent, provided that parent has had "sole responsibility" for the child's upbringing.
The phrase "sole responsibility" is intended to reflect a situation where parental responsibility of a child, to all intents and purposes, rests chiefly with one parent. Such a situation is in contrast to the ordinary family unit where responsibility for a child's upbringing is shared between the two parents (although not necessarily equally).

Establishing that a parent has had "sole responsibility"
A parent claiming to have had "sole responsibility" for a child must satisfactorily demonstrate that he has, usually for a substantial period of time, been the chief person exercising parental responsibility. For such an assertion to be accepted, it must be shown that he has had, and still has, the ultimate responsibility for the major decisions relating to the child's upbringing, and provides the child with the majority of the financial and emotional support he requires. It must also be shown that he has had and continues to have care and control of the child. For example:
 A non British citizen child born to a British citizen and a foreign national living abroad. The couple then separate and the UK national wishes to return to the United Kingdom to live with the child. The UK parent has chief responsibility for the child, and the foreign parent does not object to the child living in the United Kingdom. In such a case the UK parent could be considered to have sole responsibility.
 Two foreign nationals living abroad have a child, then separate. One parent comes to the United Kingdom and obtains settlement. The child remains with the parent abroad for several years, then at the age of 13+ wishes to join the parent in the United Kingdom to take advantage of the educational system. There is no reason why the child should not remain with the parent who lives abroad. In this case the parent who lives in the United Kingdom would not be considered to have sole responsibilty.

4.2. Where the child and the parent claiming sole responsibility are separated
Where the child and parent are separated, the physical day to day care of the child must be entrusted to others, and it is expected that where the child is being looked after by relatives, they should be the relatives of the parent claiming "sole responsibility" rather than those of the other parent. Should this be the case, the parent claiming "sole responsibility" must still be able to show that he has retained the ultimate responsibility for the child's upbringing and provides the majority of the emotional and financial support needed.
If it is established that the child is being cared for by the relatives of the father but it is the mother who has applied for the child to join her in this country (or vice versa), the application should normally be refused.

4.3. Where it is not clear which parent has established "sole responsibility"

Cases may arise where even though one parent has taken no share of responsibility, or so small a share that it can effectively be disregarded, the other parent cannot claim to have had "sole responsibility". This may be where more than the day to day care and control of a child has been transferred to another person due, perhaps, to the sponsoring parent being in this country and not maintaining a close involvement in the child's upbringing etc.
There are a number of factors which should be taken into account when deciding whether, for the purpose of the Rules, a parent has established that he has had the "sole responsibility" for a child to the exclusion of the other parent or those who may have been looking after the child.

opps sorry scouser keith, that cut and paste was a lot longer than i thought .. SORRY ..:D

read it all here ..
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/idischapter8annexes/section5/annexm.pdf?view=Binary

if you think you will have a problem, seek legal advice..

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[mhynne]

so basically if i leave her temporarily here in manila.. i wont be able to petition her in the near future.. bec i be letting go of my sole responsibility to her father.. did i read it right? so its either i take her already with me or she wont be able to go in the future... which is really tricky because right now we still practice joint custody over her.. wwwhhyy does everything have to be thisss harrrddd?!!! sigh...

[eljean]

how old is your child?

[eljean]

i think you have to talk solely to the father of the child to ask for a consent that you are bringing your child with you to the uk or an affidavit of consent from him...since hes the father if you have the full custody stated in your annulment paper it is already been prove and said...if he does not let the child go with you in the uk well thats the big thing and if ever your child gets an interview in the embassy then will probably tell the truth....who knows if you get it clear between you and your ex and with your child it wont be so hard anyway....

[KeithD]

opps sorry scouser keith, that cut and paste was a lot longer than i thought .. SORRY ..:D
No problem, we have to accept such things off you due to the Mental Health Act :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[mhynne]

shes 8 years old eljean.. initially we want her to stay in manila.. so i wont be initially putting her in my visa spousal application. and i want to know how to do that? not putting her in the application visa but letting the embassy know that she exists. and we would want to get her in the near future. but over the course of years we would want to bring her to the uk probably after grade school when she is about 12 years old. her father so far i think will be cooperative. but the thing is if they interview my daughter then thats tricky..
my question really is how to go about my initial spousal visa application wherein i state that she is my child but i am not bringing her initially.. and will be petitioning her after a couple of years time..

[joebloggs]

download the spouse visa and read it , it asks if you have children, put her name and details down, i think it asks if the child will being joining you and you have to tick a box yes or no, thats it,.

but i would put down in the extra info bit or in a cover letter that, you will be applying for a settlement visa for your daughter to live permenantly in the uk with you, when you are settled in the uk, and when she has finished high school..

always keep a photo copy of any letters or visa apps, so you can send a copy of your spouse visa app, when you apply for a visa for her, so you can prove that you intended for your daughter to live in the uk permenantly with you.

can your daughter not live with your mom? , if you can get a letter from your ex, stating that he doesnt help his daughter financially, but like it says emotional contact might be a problem..

i've read on thai forums, a few cases of kids being refused visa's to join there mom, nealry always due to 'sole responsibilty' . and that the kids have made mistakes in the interviews at the embassy, and they wouldnt let adults in the interview with them,:NoNo: , and these kids were like 8-10 yrs old.

iam not trying to worry you, just prepare, and prepare well, make sure you have all your evidence and leave nothing to chance.

ive been thru what your going to go thru, and in my case it was more stragiht forward than yours.

but good luck, and get some free legal advice, your husband in the uk, can contact immigration experts at laws centres, etc and they can advise him better than i can..


:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[mhynne]

thanks joe.. thats really enlightening..

actually my mom will look after her when i go. but you know kids, im worried about that one day she might want to go back to her dad whilst im in the UK. hence if that happens, it will blow the sole responsibility thing to pieces. as stated in what u had me read earlier. if i go and leave her and she stays with my mom, all i need to prove is i still support her emotionally and financially which i think will be pretty easy if im prepared. but if she goes back to her dad then its gonna be definitely refused. since shes not really my SOLE responsibility anymore.

so basically all is well as of now whilst i file for my visa.. its just gonna be a single box to tick and a letter to be signed by my ex husband, if i read it right. I still want to be sure though that someday i can really get her to come. its more of giving her the freedom to go anywhere she wants that really counts for me. note, fiancee and i are contemplating on staying here in manila. maybe it is the best for our family and marriage. we only want to be together thats all.. if it cant be in the UK ill still be happy in manila. we are just soo exhausted with all these issues.. =(

[joebloggs]

iam sure i've read cases where the visa has been refused, because the embassy has stated that the mother has not proved she has 'sole responsibilty' :Rasp: , becuase her own mother has looked after her grand daughter. but i wouldnt worry about that, i dont think it happens much. you just have to take nothing for granted with visa's and lunatic house (IND):D

i married my wife many years ago, near 6 i think :Erm: , i didnt even apply for a spouse visa til more than 2 years after we married, as my wife was at med school, and when she finished med school, we got a spouse visa we borught our daughter, but left her son who was 15 at the time with his aunt, so he could finish school and bring him when we were settled in the uk.

nearly 2 yrs went, and i realised i had to get my stepson here before he was 18, at 18 or older its nearly impossible to get a settlement visa then, i got him here dec 2006, he turned 18 in mid feb 2007, so he couldnt be put down on my wifes ILR app in may, i had to pay another fee, and also as he was now 18, there could be a chance he would be refused, as he is no longer seen as a dependant, but if you can still prove he is dependant, then you have a chance. which we did and he got ILR at 18, and only been in the uk 6 months.

i think you have to get your daughter here as soon as you can, the longer you leave it, the more chance that the embassy could say you haven't proved you have sole responsibilty, which if you leave her in the phippines, you live in the uk for say 4 years, and apply for a visa for her, i wonder if they would say you have 'sole responsibilty'. when you haven't been there much for those 4 years :Erm:, but i could be wrong.

if i was you, i would do more research, phone up the embassy and ask, never get advice from one source, as that one could give you wrong info, which has happened to me a few times. but if you intend to leave her in the philippines with your mom or her father for years, then get her visa sorted out before your spouse visa runs out. just as i did with my stepson.

as i said before put on your spouse visa your daughters info, tick the box shes not traveling with you, but put in the extra info or a cover letter you want her to join you when your settled and shes finished school. so after you've been in the uk, 18 months or so, apply for a visa for her to come and join you in the uk, and when you apply for ILR, she can be put as a dependant without a extra fee, once she has her passport with ILR, iam not sure <18 can get ILR ? ,, need to find out, then take her back to your ex and mom, and if the same ruiles apply, you need to bring her back to the uk within 2 years or her ILR can be revoked? iam not sure again on a minor.. but i could be talking a load of :censored: ... :D

iam just saying if you can sort her visa out, once she has it, then it might not matter if she is with her dad or your mom, as she already has her visa. but then you might be able to leave her there for 4 years and not have a problem, but i dont know anyone who has left their child for 4 years and then applied for a visa. maybe iam wrong ??

also i sent money to my stepsons aunt, who looked after him, when my wife came to the uk, i used PNB online to send the money, they send you a reciept, which i keep each one, to prove that we had sent money to his aunt to care for him, and that we were financially responsbile for him. so if you send your mom or ex money, KEEP THE RECEIPTS as evidence.

it could be straight forward as your daughter is only 8. but dont take chances, if she is refused, maybe you can appeal , but its time and money, nevermind the stress and its not worth it, ive applied for 6 visa's and not had one refusal, as ive researched and made sure they cannot fail my apps. so keep on researching :xxgrinning--00xx3:

and good luck,

[joebloggs]

thanks joe.. thats really enlightening..

actually my mom will look after her when i go. but you know kids, im worried about that one day she might want to go back to her dad whilst im in the UK. hence if that happens, it will blow the sole responsibility thing to pieces. as stated in what u had me read earlier. if i go and leave her and she stays with my mom, all i need to prove is i still support her emotionally and financially which i think will be pretty easy if im prepared. but if she goes back to her dad then its gonna be definitely refused. since shes not really my SOLE responsibility anymore.

so basically all is well as of now whilst i file for my visa.. its just gonna be a single box to tick and a letter to be signed by my ex husband, if i read it right. I still want to be sure though that someday i can really get her to come. its more of giving her the freedom to go anywhere she wants that really counts for me. note, fiancee and i are contemplating on staying here in manila. maybe it is the best for our family and marriage. we only want to be together thats all.. if it cant be in the UK ill still be happy in manila. we are just soo exhausted with all these issues.. =(


as ive said, if you sort her visa out, once you have it, it might not matter who your daughter is with, my tepson was interviewed on his own, they wouldnt let his aunt in the interview, he was ok thou, as he was 17, he knows what to say or what not to say, but your daughter is young, iam sure she has to have an adult with her, but ive read cases on thai forum, where the adult has been refused and kids of 8 and 10 were interviewed on their own :NoNo: . maybe she will not get an interview, but you have to be prepared for it.

you shouldn't have a problem getting her a visa, maybe iam too negative, but like i said, ive not had one visa app rejected, ive always made sure, i couldnt supply any more info, and double checked everythnig.

[mhynne]

thanks joebloggs =)