Our right to healthcare - Philippines vs UK

[Doc Alan]

On another thread a moderator ( Arthur ) expressed the view that healthcare ought to be freely available to all nationalities, in an ideal world.
We're constantly reminded - on the forum and elsewhere - that our world is not ideal, and the UK National Health Service ( NHS ) has its share of criticism.
There have always been three principles guiding the NHS :
* It meets the needs of everyone
* It is free at the point of delivery
* It is based on clinical need, not ability to pay.
Most health expenditure is funded by general taxation. We have 1 doctor / 365 people. The Government's plans to put GP's in charge of much of the NHS budget, and open up more competition from the private and voluntary sector, applies only to England and is opposed by health unions.
Not only would it be costly and unnecessary, but it would run the risk of benefiting private companies at the expense of patients. The NHS must be accountable to the public, communities, and patients it serves, not shareholders. Resources are finite - about 10 % of the UK GDP is spent on health.

The Phils spends less than 1 % of its GDP on health and has 1 doctor / 800 people. Diseases which are common in the UK ( heart disease, cancer, diabetes ) are also common in the Phils. Clearly there are differences which I've raised in other threads. Members may not know that health is also regarded as a human right guaranteed by the Phils constitution. But the reality is different to the UK. Life expectancy - as one measure of health - is 78 for males and 82 for females in the UK. It's comparable to this in relatively rich urban communities like Manila, Cebu, and Davao, but way lower in poor urban / rural communities of the Phils.
It's claimed that 6 of 10 filipinos with fatal illnesses never see a health professional. To the average filipino, food, shelter, education, and debt payments take priority over health. When they do fall ill, they rely more on alternative medicine and delay proper treatment - if ever - until it's too late.
About 8 / 10 filipinos are claimed to be covered by the Philippine Health Insurance Corporation ( PhilHealth ), a Department of Health agency. But still half of health spending is " out of pocket ". PhilHealth, and government hospitals, have limitations in coverage. For example, ultrasound facilties are usually only available privately. The Phils health sector is dominated by commercial interests more concerned with profit than health outcomes.
What should be of great interest is that a blueprint for future universal healthcare in Phils models itself on the same principles guiding our NHS. It's not perfect, but for over 60 years the principles have remained the same. Commercial / business interests must not over-rule our right to health care, whether in UK, Phils, or anywhere else in the world.
www.up.edu.ph/upforum.php?i=289

[Doc Alan]

50 views ... and not one reply :yikes: Health should be a priority to every member. How our money is spent individually or on our behalf by the UK and Philippines governments should also concern us.
This is an information forum. I benefit from it and contribute in return. Many members have told me - in confidence - of health concerns. What I say in public is accurate to the best of my knowledge. If it goes unchallenged and mostly unread there's nothing more I can do.

[raynaputi]

Hi Doc! Thanks for all your contributions regarding health issues. We really appreciate it.:xxgrinning--00xx3: Just don't take offense if most won't reply to your posts. As you have said, most take health for granted or just don't have any idea what response they should give. The fact that lots read it even without responding means you've already conveyed the message. :xxgrinning--00xx3: Thanks again! :D

[joebloggs]

Health care in the phils is always a worry for Filipinos living there and for us Brits visiting

my stepson only a few months ago had to send over £1k for an emergency operation for his mother in law, we've also had to send money in the past for operations or medical treatment for family members.

its funny a poor country like the phils cant afford free medical care, and neither can the richest the USA (thou they can fund wars) but that's another story. be thankful we have an NHS,

side note Doc Alan doctors have rejected the NHS reforms, possibility the first time in history they will go on strike ?

[Steve.r]

Over the last 3 months I have realised just what we do take for granted here in the Uk. The emergency birth of my son, the time he spent in the incubator and my wife's operation all cost me more than I would care to count up. I paid because my wife never had PhilHealth, which in reality only covers about 25% of the cost of the treatment.
Not only have I spent to care for my wife and baby son to make sure they return to full health, but I also paid for my mother-in-law to have ultra-sound for a painful kindey stone problem.

I have no answer to the problems I saw in the hospitals in Phils. We all know of the massive corruption that smothers every Phils government department, but unless you have money ..... quite simply.... you will die.

While in Phils, i went to my wife's cousin's funeral. She was 32 and leaves one son (no father) She had stomach pains for several weeks, but was either too scared or wasnt able to pay for a doctor. Shouldn't it be a human right to seek free medical advice and have treatment?

We are lucky here in the Uk. Of course we pay for the service and always moan about it, but our country will not let us die in vain and before we need to.

[raynaputi]

That's why if anyone can afford to take a medical plan in the Philippines, it's best to have it. I always tell my parents to get a medical plan now that I won't be able to provide for them since I went here in the UK. I used to have them covered in my company's HMO when I was working. They can have free annual checkups and other medical care they needed as long as I am employed in the company. But after moving here, all were cancelled. There are Health Maintenance Organizations (HMO) in the Philippines that offers an individual/family plan for as low as P 6,767 annually and if you can afford it, I do advice to get it. It'll be a big help. This one is an example.. http://www.medicardphils.com

[Doc Alan]

Good points from Rayna, Joebloggs and Steve.r :xxgrinning--00xx3:
I'm not looking for praise or appreciation so much as reminding members about health. Please think about these questions :-
1. Should you be taking more personal responsibilty for health ? Taking more exercise, eating better, moderating alcohol intake and stopping smoking ? Visiting your doctor for a check up, or arranging screening / vaccinations ?
2. Should the government ( in either UK or Phils ) take more responsibilty ? Minimum pricing for alcohol ? If alcohol and smoking are legal, why not currently illegal drugs like cannabis ? More emphasis on prevention / screening ?
3. Should adverse consequences of all " lifestyle choices " ( not just smoking, overeating, excess alcohol, but also cosmetic surgery ) be paid for by a health service funded by taxation, or other means ?
4. What part have commercial interests / businesses in health provision ? This question is being actively considered by governments and health workers in both countries right now !
5. Many members are young, with other priorities, but they have relatives in Philippines or UK. Is it better to insure their health pro-actively than pay for treatment reactively, at greater expense, and possibly too late ?

As for doctors and/or nurses going on strike, perish the thought ! They won't have much sympathy if it's about money/ pensions, rather than principles. In my specialty, striking would have been impossible because the work would not have gone away, merely accumulated for my return.

[mickcant]

We do not realise these things that matter so much until we need them.

I try to eat healthily, do not smoke and rarely drink but do have health issues, but that is I think part of getting older.
Thanks Doc.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[imagine]

i think we take the nhs pretty much for granted, its a shame though that other countries such as phill, dont have the same , peoples lives should never account for cost

[juvyjones28]

Thanks for this post Doc :D :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Rosie1958]

I had previously wanted to live abroad in a few years time but recent experiences with my brother's serious illness in Philippines have really changed my mind. I am lucky enough to have a private healthcare plan through my employer in the UK as well as also being able to use the NHS. As I am getting older and will, like everyone else, be susceptible to illness with age, there is now absolutely no way that I would give that up and put myself at unnecessary risk and expense. In the meantime, I am very conscious about what I can do to help myself and aim to do as much as I possibly can :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

On another thread a moderator ( Arthur ) expressed the view that healthcare ought to be free to all nationalities, in an ideal world.





unless you have money ..... quite simply.... you will die.

Shouldn't it be a human right to seek free medical advice and have treatment?

... our country will not let us die in vain and before we need to.




4. What part have commercial interests / businesses in health provision ? This question is being actively considered by governments and health workers in both countries right now !


its a shame though that other countries such as phill, dont have the same , peoples lives should never account for cost

Precisely the points I was TRYING to make ... albeit somewhat "clumsily" ... in that seemingly "ill~fated" post (of mine) - the post that ended (or appeared to me to end) all posts - in the thread Alan mentions in #1. :yeahthat:

[malditako]

we've planned to settle in phils until my little boy got hospitalized from diarrhea and cost us like 50 pounds per day in the hospital. that put him off to live there...a year after we flew to uk.

[lastlid]

It's claimed that 6 of 10 filipinos with fatal illnesses never see a health professional.


I noticed this kind of approach in my wife's family, to their teeth. They seem to have a tendency to just simply have the tooth removed, rather than have any other sort of remedial work such as crowns. Cheaper to have the tooth removed. My wife, it has become obvious, simply never /rarely saw a health professional i her lifetime and has simply been lucky with her health. Now that she is in the UK that mentality is still there and it will take some adjusting on her part to the idea that she can step into her local GP and get free treatment. (BTW She is registered at the local GP now).

[John2]

I have seen many old aged persons living in the old care centers and are suffering from many diseases and the very common disease that is found among the 30% out of 100 is dementia and Alzheimer's and i must say that the govt is not giving any positive response for such patients and they are on their own and the i might say that such kind of facilities or the care centers should be made where proper care and attention is provided to them.

[Steve.r]

I have seen many old aged persons living in the old care centers and are suffering from many diseases and the very common disease that is found among the 30% out of 100 is dementia and Alzheimer's and i must say that the govt is not giving any positive response for such patients and they are on their own and the i might say that such kind of facilities or the care centers should be made where proper care and attention is provided to them.

So are you talking about your homeland of Pakistan where you are now then ?? I didn't know they had old people's homes there :NoNo:

Plus for 23 years old, you have seen a lot of this????? really?

[enjaLicious]

I think it would be great to have a free medical help here in the Philippines. It would help a lot of sick people who can't afford to be hospitalized. However, would it change the health attitude of the Filipinos? Maybe. Not.

According to a study conducted by my sociology teacher, he interviewed people in rural areas about their attitude about health and the conclusion is that people basically wanted everything FREE, dole out. Fine, they wanted things free. We do have some freebies here. We have some medicines in the health centers, and people keep on asking for medications without having any symptoms at all, and since they know someone in the health center, they'll receive 20 tablets of mefenamic acid. But do they use it? NO! They just collect it.:xxaction-smiley-047 Do they go to Prenatal Checkup and immunizations in the health center which are free? No, they dont. Because they believe that any discomfort or changes in their body will disappear and they dont want to seek help until they can tolerate the symptoms anymore. The "Bahala na" attitude or whatever it goes is a culture here. When encouraged to seek medical help, most filipino would say "If I die then its the will of God". :xxaction-smiley-047 I hate it when they give up life without even trying. But when they experience difficulty of breathing or excruciating pain, that's the only way they'll ask for help. And sometimes, its too late.

Sorry for ranting. I was a public health nurse and currently studying medicine to be a doctor. It pains me when I worked as a nurse, there's only 1 doctor for a population of 30,000. And that doctor goes to the that province 1week in a month.

[enjaLicious]

Despite my rant about Filipino's health attitude, I think it would really be great to have NHS just like yours. There's a city here in the Philippines which spoke of equality. Equal rights to education, health and others. Makati. I heard that those who cant afford to be hospitalized will be given a health card from their government and will be treated at Makati Med (expensive hospital) without paying a thing. Sadly the health cards are limited.

[joebloggs]

Sorry for ranting. I was a public health nurse and currently studying medicine to be a doctor.

goodluck with the studying, my wife studied medicine at The University of Perpetual Help System in Binan and training to be a GP in the UK now.

[enjaLicious]

goodluck with the studying, my wife studied medicine at The University of Perpetual Help System in Binan and training to be a GP in the UK now.

Wow. That's great. :xxgrinning--00xx3: I wish her the best of luck. She's privileged in training in UK. I hope someday, I will too. And try to study the health system there.

[Doc Alan]

Despite my rant about Filipino's health attitude, I think it would really be great to have NHS just like yours.

Thank you very much for reading and contributing to my thread Enja, and welcome to the forum :smile:.

[-sillybilly-]

Talking about NHS. I totally agree and i think we best make use of it before its too late.
We have been paying taxes all our lifes and we just take the freebies for granted.
I know most people doesnt like hospitals due to their own experiences but hey its all free.
Free acquired new diseases but still free treatment!
But the most important thing is when you have your regular check ups. I reckond have your blood test done regularly, and how fit is your heart.
Now heart does really matter. I work in a cardiac place where we put pacemakers and defibrilators.
And you will be surprise how much they cost.
A Biventricular Internal Cardioverter Defibrilator is £20,000! Simple pacemakers and defibrilators are about £8,0000 to £10,000. And the battery last for about 6 to 8 years. Now theres your tax that you have been paying since you were what?
That metal stents in your arteries cost about £700 and if you have 3 of them in your heart you've got a full metal jacket plus a free supply of your tAblets as maintenance.
Everytime we do procedures like this specially on a 90 year old patient.....i always think "you deserve it!"
Thats why a lot of filipinos are trying to bring their families over in the UK. And i will definitely do the same.

[Doc Alan]

The UK is the first country to have a report based on the “ Global Burden of Disease “ ( GBD ) study ( from 1990-2010 … see
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)60355-4/fulltext )
It’s been well publicised ( see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21667065 ).


• Life expectancy has improved, but so has the average for comparable European countries. In several areas – ( breast ) cancer , heart disease, chronic lung disease / infections – the UK seems to be doing poorly compared to its neighbours.


• Average life expectancy at birth is 80 ( males 78 / females 82 ) but less than 69 of these are “ healthy life “. Spain and Italy are among the 11 countries doing better than the UK.


• Poor health in the UK is linked to smoking, obesity, high blood pressure, and excess alcohol consumption – risk factors which can be avoided and/or treated.


• This is disappointing in a country which has had universal free health care and public health programmes for more than six decades. The NHS is still admired – if not the envy of the world. There’s growing recognition that the NHS may no longer be fit for purpose. Other countries ( both richer and poorer than the UK ) have better outcomes from their systems of health care. Many use insurance-based health care.



• Improvement in health can – and should be – down to lifestyle choice, not more attempts by the government to force changes in behaviour ( such as minimum pricing for alcohol ; more smoking restrictions ; fat tax on food ). Individuals could take more responsibility for their own health, including having free health check ups and screening.



As for the Philippines, it’s not ( yet ) had this “ in depth “ analysis from GBD – so the following is my opinion only !


• Life expectancy at birth is still about a decade less for both sexes than for the UK ( 71 ; males 68, females 74 ).



• Remember there’s no such thing as an average person / patient – these figures vary considerably around the country, as they do for the UK.

Reasons to be cheerful :-

• More is now spent on health as a proportion of GDP ( around 3.6% ).

• More of the population are claimed to be members of PhilHealth ( 85% ).


• Several of the best Philippines hospitals are internationally accredited.

• Reproductive Health Bill signed into law.

Cautions :-

• Corruption means limited resources not best used.

• Main serious diseases no longer infections but similar to UK – cardiovascular, cancer, and diabetes.

• Alcohol consumption and smoking not declining.


• Not enough doctors and nurses - they emigrate for better pay / conditions.

• Too much health spending ( half ) still “ out-of-pocket “.




• Ignorance, coupled with belief in “ alternative medicine “ , poverty, and insufficient screening / vaccination coverage.

• Huge variation in standards of health care – 2/5 filipinos are said to die without medical attention.

• Tuberculosis still too common - even if diagnosed, treatment may be ineffective ( wrong drugs, not completed ).


• Still no vaccine or specific treatment for dengue.


Each country has similarities and differences – with room for improvement.

[andy222]

Only 2 things to say. Enjoy the free NHS while you can. Secondly I respect what you say Doc but my view is do what you want in life and enjoy it, There is only one certainty in life and that is death. Just my opinion.

[Doc Alan]

Only 2 things to say. Enjoy the free NHS while you can. Secondly I respect what you say Doc but my view is do what you want in life and enjoy it, There is only one certainty in life and that is death. Just my opinion.

Thanks for responding Andy :smile:

With respect, the NHS is only " free " at the point of access, and even there not completely so.



I have never knowingly been judgemental on this forum. This thread is no exception. It's about lifestyle choice ( informed by evidence ) ... not attempted enforcement by politicians or anyone else :xxgrinning--00xx3:.

I am not aware of any other attempt to compare health of UK and Philippines - that's why I have made time to inform members - without trying to dictate how they conduct their lives.

[andy222]

All the above what you have said Doc is true.:xxgrinning--00xx3:. You have learned me one thing though Doc I didnt know there was a lot of cases of tb in the phils. Maybe you could shed some light on something though?. I have noticed a lot of brain tumors in asians. Is this just coincidence?

[Doc Alan]

The short answer is - I don’t know if ( primary ) brain tumours are commoner in Asians, and I suspect no-one else knows for sure.


There are over 200 different types of cancer which can arise in any body organ – so there will never be a single cure. The simplest definition is “ a purposeless proliferation of cells “. Cancers do vary in frequency round the world. In the UK the commonest types are lung, large bowel, and breast. In the Philippines it’s breast, lung and liver.


By FAR the commonest brain tumours are the result of “ secondary “ spread in the bloodstream from a “ primary “ elsewhere, like lung or breast. These cancers are common both in UK and Philippines ( but tend to be more advanced / likely to have spread when diagnosed in Philippines.


Even primary brain tumours may be of different types, and degrees of malignancy. They tend to remain confined to within the skull, and are either localised ( “ meningioma “ ) or invade and destroy ( “ glioblastoma “ ).


Because they are so rare it’s hard to compare incidence ( frequency ) in different countries, especially as diagnosis requires highly specialised techniques not available everywhere. In most cases we don’t know the cause – a tiny minority may be related to genetic conditions, radiation, previous cancers elsewhere, or weakened immunity. Mobile phones have not been convincingly proved to cause primary brain tumours ( and they’re so rare anyway that even double the risk would still be very small ).

[Steve.r]

I have noticed a lot of brain tumors in asians.

Can I ask just 'how' you have noticed this Andy? :Erm:

Thanks for your report Alan. I always find it interesting to see and read your comparisons backed by your non-judgemental advice. I think we all know we should change our lifestyles in some ways, but old routines, day to day habits all hinder our good intentions. But we can try.
Interesting too, that you mention 'alternative medicine' after the recurrence of the older thread on Homeopathy.

[RickyR]

I definately miss the healthcare in the UK, especially having had to pay for healthcare in the Philippines and again here in Oman recently. I spent last about 400 pounds last week on medical bills for my wife, this involved a consultation at the GP, a few lab tests/cultures for an infection, a consultation with a specialist and an ultrasound. Some tests had to be repeated, because the specialist at the hospital wouldn't accept the ones that were done by the GP, and neither we able to talk to each other as they worked for different companies. We then had to pay about 30 pounds for the antibiotics.

In the UK, even between the NHS and private hospitals there tends to be a good level of communication and its easy to get put through to the correct specialist.

Here, we find ourselves questioning whether we should go and spend 40 quid to go and see the GP about something, or hope that the ailment goes away on its own.

It's also a worry when it comes to getting something like the big C.

[RickyR]

I definately miss the healthcare in the UK, especially having had to pay for healthcare in the Philippines and again here in Oman recently. I spent last about 400 pounds last week on medical bills for my wife, this involved a consultation at the GP, a few lab tests/cultures for an infection, a consultation with a specialist and an ultrasound. Some tests had to be repeated, because the specialist at the hospital wouldn't accept the ones that were done by the GP, and neither we able to talk to each other as they worked for different companies. We then had to pay about 30 pounds for the antibiotics.

In the UK, even between the NHS and private hospitals there tends to be a good level of communication and its easy to get put through to the correct specialist.

Here, we find ourselves questioning whether we should go and spend 40 quid to go and see the GP about something, or hope that the ailment goes away on its own.

It's also a worry when it comes to getting something like the big C.

[fred]

Here, we find ourselves questioning whether we should go and spend 40 quid to go and see the GP about something, or hope that the ailment goes away on its own.

How much !!! 40 Quid?
When did all that start?

[Doc Alan]

How much !!! 40 Quid?
When did all that start?

I'm no expert on cost of attending a GP and healthcare in Oman, but I'm sure Ricky is - he pays the bills, and the only surprise is they're not more !

If patients in the UK DID have to pay up front for attending their doctor and having treatment, they might realise the true cost of healthcare ( 10% of our GDP ). It's possible that might motivate them to better look after their health by their " lifestyle choices ".
However, it has to be said that increasing dental charges haven't helped dental health.

The majority of filipinos cannot afford the healthcare we take for granted in the UK ( despite the shortcomings of the NHS ) - one factor in their life expectancy being about a decade less than here in the UK.

It's just unfortunate that, as the GBD study showed - the last decade of life in the UK is lived in poor health for so many people, as a result of our " toxic " lifestyle. Not my judgement, just the facts.

[fred]

Sorry.. I must have either mis read or misinterpreted as I thought he was talking about UK costs to see a GP.
I`ll be quite honest and suggest that I think that the UK are on the brink of NOT being able to afford or sustain the NHS at all.
I think everyone in the UK is in for a huge shock in future years regarding many things financial after interest rates ultimately rise.
I also suggest that everyone makes the most of the NHS whilst they can.
No offence intended... Just my opinion.

[andy222]

Can I ask just 'how' you have noticed this Andy? :Erm:

Thanks for your report Alan. I always find it interesting to see and read your comparisons backed by your non-judgemental advice. I think we all know we should change our lifestyles in some ways, but old routines, day to day habits all hinder our good intentions. But we can try.
Interesting too, that you mention 'alternative medicine' after the recurrence of the older thread on Homeopathy.

Ok Steve I work for the NHS in the community and on the wards in hospitals as well as end of life units. That is how I have noticed. Hope this as answered your question mate.

And Doc is a mine of info thanks to him for sharing his knowledge and experience. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[andy222]

Healthcare is free to a certain extent in the uk but I can assure you of this morale is at a all time low reguarding staff due to government cuts. They are draining us of manpower. That makes mistakes more inevitable.

[Doc Alan]

And Doc is a mine of info thanks to him for sharing his knowledge and experience. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Thanks Andy - comments like yours make it all worthwhile, really appreciated :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[andy222]

No problem Doc just telling the truth. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Doc Alan]

Life expectancy at birth is now 67 for males and 72 for females in the Philippines ; compared with 79 for males and 83 for females in the UK. Global life expectancy now averages 71.5 years – but it’s less for HEALTHY life expectancy. So-called " health-adjusted life expectancy " is approaching a decade less for males and females in both the Philippines and the UK. Such estimates depend on measures like " QALYs " ( quality-adjusted life years ) and " DALYs " ( disability-adjusted life years ).


• Of course none of us know how long we will live. Even analysis of our genetic make up won’t tell us that. Estimates of life expectancy ( healthy or otherwise ) also vary in different parts of the country we live in. We do know that life expectancies have increased over many years, especially in countries such as the Philippines. This may be explained by successes in medicine and public health. It’s disappointing, therefore, that on average the last decade of our lives as " senior citizens " may not be completely healthy – even if not too surprising.


• The UK spends under 10% of its GDP on health ; the Philippines under 5% ; " out-of-pocket " expenditure is about 10% in the UK and over half in the Philippines.

ALL medicine should be based on good evidence, not opinions and non-evidence based meddling ! Healthcare and social care also need to be integrated ( as planned for Manchester ).

If ONLY politicians would declare how much of the GDP is to be spent on health ( with a tax dedicated to health ), and devolve control of such spending to healthcare workers :doh !



• We should all know the risk factors for ill health ! They include smoking ( 44% males and 10% females in Philippines ; 22% for each in UK ) ; alcohol consumption ( twice as much in the UK ) ; obesity ( just over 6% in Philippines ; about a third in the UK ); lack of exercise ; poor diet ( excess sugar, lack of fruit / vegetables ) ; untreated high blood pressure and diabetes ; late diagnosis of cancers.



• The differences between the UK and the Philippines are marked, but not so much as in the past. " Non-communicable diseases " now account for about two thirds of deaths in the Philippines – compared to 90% of those in the UK.

Cardiovascular diseases account for about a third in each country. Cancers account for another third in the UK ; 10% in the Philippines ( the main types are different, but frequency increases with age ). Chronic lung diseases account for less than 10% in each country. Diabetes kills relatively more in the Philippines ( 6% ) than the UK ( 1% ). Communicable ( such as TB ), maternal, perinatal and nutritional conditions are relatively more significant in the Philippines ( a quarter ) compared to UK ( under a tenth ).



• Of course there are still differences in health profiles between the two countries – 80% of the UK population live in urban areas compared to 50% in the Philippines ; gross national income per capita is over 8 times as high in UK ; the UK has relatively greater health workforce ( 42 doctors compared to 7 / 10,000 ), with far easier access ( free where it is needed ) than the Philippines ; more reliance on " complementary / alternative / traditional " non-evidence based medicine in the Philippines ; health screening, prevention or at least early diagnosis of illness more established in the UK.


• For members who do wish to know more about comparison of health between the UK and the Philippines, these links may be of interest :-


1. Country profiles :-


http://www.who.int/nmh/countries/gbr_en.pdf

http://www.who.int/nmh/countries/phl_en.pdf?ua=1


http://www.who.int/gho/countries/gbr.pdf?ua=1


http://www.who.int/gho/countries/phl.pdf?ua=1


2. Global Burden of Disease Study :-


http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2814%2961682-2/abstract


3. Cost of being unhealthy ( England ) :-


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30934590

[Michael Parnham]

Only just come across this thread Alan, brilliant, enjoyed reading all the posts and certainly food for thought, keep up the good work!:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[stevewool]

I am afraid the free right to the health care here is slowly going, yes it will be there for those who cannot pay, ie people from Europe, but the honest English worker will have to pay for some sort of insurance policy in due time - of that I am sure, just my thoughts

[Arthur Little]

I am afraid the right to the free health care here is slowly going. Yes, it will be there for those who cannot pay, ie people from Europe, but the honest English worker will have to pay for some sort of insurance policy in due time - of that I am sure, just my thoughts

:Erm: ... and the honest Scottish, Welsh & Northern Irish workers too, no doubt! :wink:

[mickcant]

:Erm: ... and the honest Scottish, Welsh & Northern Irish workers too, no doubt! :wink:

What about the Isle of Wight :ReadIt: :wink:
Mick.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

What about the Isle of Wight :ReadIt: :wink:
Mick.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

:gp:, Mick! Yep, you're absolutely right ... Isle of Wight; also the Isle of Man. And, of course, the Channel Islands, for that matter.

:icon_sorry: ... 'fraid each of those separate locations only entered my head after typing #41.

[robbie bobby]

Here in Channel Islands(Guernsey)everyone pays £45 for Doctor and £25 for a nurse appointment.Prescriptions are £3.70 unless its for something like contraception which comes under"private"and costs £12.00.If you need an ambulance you pay £200 unless you join a healthcare scheme here which costs approx £40 a month per person which pays all docs and ambulance fees.Once you have seen the doctor and he/she refers you to hospital its free but a simple appearance at A+E will still incur a £45.00 charge Mon-Fri before 6pm.After 6 pm and weekends its a more heftier charge of £90.

This week so far I have paid out £300.00 for Doctors.1x appointment for wife.3x appointments for the baby as shes ill and 2 for me as I had a chest infection and high blood pressure which saw me spending £92 for a monitor to be put on for 24 hours.The standard cost is £57 for doctor for a visitor but the government pays a grant of £12.00 if you live here.There are some pros.You can get seen by a doctor in the same day.Your bloods/pathology comes back after 24 hours and whatever you have is treated.if you need to go to hospital for an op there isn't this 3 month wait like you have in UK

[stevewool]

Here in Channel Islands(Guernsey)everyone pays £45 for Doctor and £25 for a nurse appointment.Prescriptions are £3.70 unless its for something like contraception which comes under"private"and costs £12.00.If you need an ambulance you pay £200 unless you join a healthcare scheme here which costs approx £40 a month per person which pays all docs and ambulance fees.Once you have seen the doctor and he/she refers you to hospital its free but a simple appearance at A+E will still incur a £45.00 charge Mon-Fri before 6pm.After 6 pm and weekends its a more heftier charge of £90.

This week so far I have paid out £300.00 for Doctors.1x appointment for wife.3x appointments for the baby as shes ill and 2 for me as I had a chest infection and high blood pressure which saw me spending £92 for a monitor to be put on for 24 hours.The standard cost is £57 for doctor for a visitor but the government pays a grant of £12.00 if you live here.There are some pros.You can get seen by a doctor in the same day.Your bloods/pathology comes back after 24 hours and whatever you have is treated.if you need to go to hospital for an op there isn't this 3 month wait like you have in UK

Interesting

[Terpe]

Shortly after we arrived my wife had a fever and cough she couldn't get rid of. The pharmacies are pretty strict about not giving out antibiotics over-the-counter, which meant a visit to a doctor.
My wife was getting concerned about this cough so we made a trip to the hospital.
The doctor's charge for consultation was P200
We just knocked on the door and went straight in. No appointment and no waiting.
My wife had a couple of chest X-Rays done (clear thank goodness) at a cost of P150 each.
Antibiotics prescribed which I think cost about P150 for the course.

[stevewool]

Shortly after we arrived my wife had a fever and cough she couldn't get rid of. The pharmacies are pretty strict about not giving out antibiotics over-the-counter, which meant a visit to a doctor.
My wife was getting concerned about this cough so we made a trip to the hospital.
The doctor's charge for consultation was P200
We just knocked on the door and went straight in. No appointment and no waiting.
My wife had a couple of chest X-Rays done (clear thank goodness) at a cost of P150 each.
Antibiotics prescribed which I think cost about P150 for the course.

Each to their own they say, but this is the way it should be done.
A correct amount for an excellent service. The trouble is, over here in England, money you pay will go towards other things they say are more important. Just my thoughts.

[Doc Alan]

• OUR NHS is STILL largely free at the " point of use " ( which is what counts when you’re ill ), although some payments may have to be made towards the cost, such as prescriptions, eye tests, and dental fees.


• UK population is about 2/3 of that in the Philippines ( 65 million / 104 million ). UK GDP is estimated around £ 1,800 billion, 10 times that of the Philippines. The UK spends over 9%, and Philippines 4.5%, of GDP on health. " Out-of –pocket " expenditure on health in the UK is about a tenth of total health spending, compared to about 60% in the Philippines. General government expenditure on health in the UK is over 80%, compared to about a third in the Philippines.


• The NHS costs about £ 140 billion annually for the UK, and of course it has to be paid for, almost entirely by taxation.



• If you are not exempt from paying for a prescription, its charge is NOT for the true cost of the drugs, and certainly not for the entire diagnosis and treatment of any condition. Although average net costs vary around the UK ( between about £ 7.50 and £ 10.60 per item ) some drugs, such as for cancer treatment, cost FAR more than this. Conversely, some are cheaper and would be best bought " over-the-counter " where possible.


• The commonest drugs prescribed include " Simvastatin " ( for lowering blood cholesterol ); " Omeprazole " ( antacid ); " Co-codamol " and "Aspirin " ( pain relief ).


• There doesn’t appear to be enough doctors in the Philippines ( 80,000 members of the Philippines Medical Association, compared to around 275,000 doctors on the UK GMC list of " Registered Medical Practitioners " ). At least 2/3 Filipino health care professionals work in the private sector.



• Overall life expectancy in the UK is at least 81 - 12 years longer than Philippines. 1 in 3 people in the UK can expect to live to 100 ; half diagnosed with cancers live over 10 years ; 1/5 UK adults are overweight and another 1/5 smoke ( increasing risks of many illnesses ) ; at least 850,000 in the UK have dementia.



• In the Philippines there is unfair and inequitable access to healthcare leaving the poor behind. Problems include low overall government spending on health ; high " out-of-pocket " spending ; high numbers of maternal and newborn deaths ; high fertility rates among the poorest Filipinas ; and the continuing challenge of communicable diseases like TB, dengue, HIV/AIDS - despite 2/3 illnesses now being " non-communicable " ( like heart disease and cancers ). Philippines Medical Association claims 2/3 Filipinos die without seeing a healthcare worker.




• A well-functioning healthcare system should provide equitable access to quality healthcare regardless of capacity to pay, and protect against financial consequences of ill health. In the UK, that means universal healthcare ( or at least treatments " NICE " deems effective and value for money ), to a standard that’s safe and effective, and keeping to the budget.



• We need tough and well – informed health service leaders, preferably healthcare workers. The English Health Secretary doesn’t understand the NHS and has alienated senior and junior doctors and other healthcare workers. He doesn’t acknowledge we already have a 24/7 NHS ; has accused consultants of " opting out " when they don’t ; refused decent pay rises for nurses ; and presided for too long over hospitals run according to financial not clinical needs.