No Recourse To Public Funds

[Terpe]

So, your new UK visa has an observation or condition called "No recourse to Public Funds".

But what does this mean?
What are these mysterious "Public Funds" that are seemingly out of your grasp?

Well, Public Funds include quite a range of state benefits that are given to people who qualify.

I suggest making some time to do a little research about these Public Funds. At least to know that they do not include all the different kinds benefit that can be claimed and made payable by the UK Government.
To really understand specifically what these Public Funds are, they are defined in paragraph 6 of the Immigration Rules. (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/introduction)

To help guide you with your research the Home Office has produced a leaflet that nicely explains what Public Funds you can and cannot claim if the visa condition applies to you. It also explains what will happen if you break the condition

That leaflet is called No Recourse To Public Funds (http://www.readingcab.org.uk/Files%20for%20immigration/no_recourse_to_public_funds.pdf)

Please take some time to read this leaflet and pay particular note to the table on page 6

There are many cases where you will not be able to make any claim for the benefits that count as public funds in your own name.

But, there are some benefit claims that can be made in the name of your UK Citizen spouse/civil partner that will not count as YOUR recourse to public funds.


Child Benefit

For general helpful information from HMRC about Child Benefits look here at their webpage (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/index.htm)

The UK Citizen spouse/civil partner can claim Child Benefits in their own name.
See the HMRC booklet Child Benefit if you are coming from abroad or going abroad (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/ch5_notes.pdf)


Also see this leaflet called Child Benefit - Getting your claim right (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/ch2-2007-notes.pdf)

Important Extract - "Who should claim Child Benefit?
You should fill in this claim form if you are responsible for a child. You do not need to be the parent of the child and you may be able to get Child Benefit even if the child does not live with you. Only one person can receive Child Benefit for a child."
Means stepchildren are included and can be claimed for.


Tax Credits

For general helpful information from HMRC about Tax Credits look here at their webpage (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/index.htm)

Tax credits were introduced in 2003, and the immigration rules were subsequently modified in 2005.
The rule change in 2005 affects couples where one partner is not subject to immigration control (eg. UK Citizen or permanent resident).
The rule addresses both working tax credits and child tax credits.
Under the rule, a couple may claim both these credits without jeopardizing any immigration status of the person subject to immigration control.
Means, a couple can claim child tax credits and/or working tax credits as long as one partner is a British citizen or otherwise exempt from immigration control.

When claiming any Tax Credit your UK citizen spouse/civil partner should tick the box for himself/herself as the claimant.

Claims for Tax Credits are assessed jointly if you are living with a spouse or partner who is allowed to claim tax credits.
It will automatically be a joint application at the request of HMRC and your name will therefore appear. This is not a problem for you.

Here is some useful information from HMRC called What are Tax Credits (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/start/who-qualifies/what-are-taxcredits.htm) and this page also has other useful links too.

Now, there are some other benefits such as, Contribution Based Jobseeker's Allowance, Housing Benefit and Council Tax benefit which although may technically be claimed under certain very specific conditions,
I would strongly suggest not to make any claims unless you are 100% certain of the appropriate legislation and can secure written confirmation of such from the legal teams of each concerned department.

In other words, even though it's possible it's safer to leave alone until you have your hands on that ILR, or you can secure some sound advice from an experienced specialist.

Hope the information and links will help.

[lastlid]

LOL, having recently said that the UK and IOM appear to be quite similar in this area, it looks like there is a clause in the IOM blurb that says that Child Benefit isn't payable if one is subject to "Immigration Control" and that includes "no recourse to public funds" being stamped in ones passport. So that appears to preclude my wife from claiming child benefit on our offspring.

Am I correct in saying that the husband can claim child benefit in the UK, instead of the wife?

[Terpe]

LOL, having said that the UK and IOM are quite similar in this area, it looks like there is a clause in the IOM blurb that says that Child Benefit isn't payable if one is subject to "Immigration Control" and that includes "no recourse to public funds" being stamped in ones passport. So that appears to preclude my wife from claiming child benefit on our offspring.

Am I correct in saying that the husband can claim child benefit in the UK, instead of the wife?

If it is a condition of the visa that there is 'No Recourse to Public Funds' then that is applicable only to the person named in the passport.

Child benefit may be claimed by anyone who is responsible for a child. "You do not need to be the parent of the child and you may be able to get Child Benefit even if the child does not live with you. Only one person can receive Child Benefit for a child."

I don't have any knowledge about IOM benefit rules, but I suspect you may have misread something. I cannot imagine that Child Benefit would be withheld from you.
As with the rest of UK it's you and not your wife who would be eligible in making the claim.

[lastlid]

I don't have any knowledge about IOM benefit rules, but I suspect you may have misread something. I cannot imagine that Child Benefit would be withheld from you.


I hope you are right. I tried to copy and paste the relevant text without success. Its quite strange reading through IOM laws and regs as they often mimic the UK verbatum in places and then you see the odd tweak or something phrased slightly differently. I have become quite familiar with the Health and Safety at Work Act, for instance and it is the same thing there, almost the same but not quite.

[lastlid]

From the Isle of Man Guide to Child Benefit....

" Also, you may not be able to get Child Benefit if:

You are subject to immigration control."

"You are subject to immigration control if:

The Immigration Office says that your leave to remain is on the condition that you do not have recourse to public funds...."

However, I get the impression that I can claim the child benefit if my wife can't.

[grahamw48]

I'm pretty sure that will be the case.

When my 2 stepchildren came here I was able to claim CB for both them and my own boy, all in my name so as not to jeopardize the ex's status.

Thanks for the info Peter.....most useful. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Terpe]

From the Isle of Man Guide to Child Benefit....

" Also, you may not be able to get Child Benefit if:

You are subject to immigration control."

"You are subject to immigration control if:

The Immigration Office says that your leave to remain is on the condition that you do not have recourse to public funds...."

However, I get the impression that I can claim the child benefit if my wife can't.

Yep, you can claim.
It's only your wife who cannot claim it.

[tone]

And I believe you can only claim CB if you earn less than £44500 odd?
If I am correct from April this year CB will only be payable if you earn less than the suggested threshold?

Actually I did some searching and the latest news on this is here:-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2109745/Child-benefit-cap-Is-50k-defuse-political-time-bomb.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Lord knows what will actually happen in this regard...

Thanks for the information heads up Terpe:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Tone

[grahamw48]

I heard today that the legislation was being put on hold while they sort out the anomalies regarding combined income of couples....which obviously was a nonsense. :rolleyes:

[lastlid]

I heard today that the legislation was being put on hold while they sort out the anomalies regarding combined income of couples....which obviously was a nonsense. :rolleyes:

By that i presume you mean the pooling of tax reliefs for married couples, for example?

[grahamw48]

Something like that.

I'd have to look it up. :)

[Steve.r]

Thanks Peter, that helps a lot :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

Thanks Peter, that helps a lot :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Yes. Yet another great thread. There's more to marrying a foreign gal and bringing her back to the UK, than meets the eye and there's a lot more to this forum than I ever first thought. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

Later today from the BBC on child benefit....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17255753


"Mr Clegg acknowledged it was an anomaly that a family with a single earner taking home more than £42,475 would lose child benefit but a couple each earning slightly less than the top rate could together take home £80,000 and keep the benefit."

Presumably this must be what you were referring to, Graham?

[Terpe]

Later today from the BBC on child benefit....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17255753


"Mr Clegg acknowledged it was an anomaly that a family with a single earner taking home more than £42,475 would lose child benefit but a couple each earning slightly less than the top rate could together take home £80,000 and keep the benefit."

Presumably this must be what you were referring to, Graham?

It's going to be tricky to fix it :Erm:

[andy222]

Just came across this post. Thanks for all the info Terpe absolutley brilliant. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

Later today from the BBC on child benefit....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17255753


"Mr Clegg acknowledged it was an anomaly that a family with a single earner taking home more than £42,475 would lose child benefit but a couple each earning slightly less than the top rate could together take home £80,000 and keep the benefit."

Presumably this must be what you were referring to, Graham?

Yes. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

Just seen it on the box.....:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[imagine]

Later today from the BBC on child benefit....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17255753


"Mr Clegg acknowledged it was an anomaly that a family with a single earner taking home more than £42,475 would lose child benefit but a couple each earning slightly less than the top rate could together take home £80,000 and keep the benefit."

Presumably this must be what you were referring to, Graham?

at that level of income , do they realy need cb anyway

[lastlid]

at that level of income , do they realy need cb anyway

If we were prime minister for the day at what level of income would we make the cut of point for child benefit? £42475? 50000? Just above what we are currently earning?

[grahamw48]

I think I would stop it all together to discourage excessive breeding.

Let's get back to survival of the fittest and improve the gene pool. :D

[lastlid]

I think I would stop it all together to discourage excessive breeding.

Let's get back to survival of the fittest and improve the gene pool. :D
Graham for PM...:D

[KeithD]

The following information from the UKBA makes 'public fund' claims perfectly clear :rolleyes:

6A. For the purpose of these Rules, a person (P) is not to be regarded as having (or potentially having) recourse to public funds merely because P is (or will be) reliant in whole or in part on public funds provided to P's sponsor unless, as a result of P's presence in the United Kingdom, the sponsor is (or would be) entitled to increased or additional public funds (save where such entitlement to increased or additional public funds is by virtue of P and the sponsor's joint entitlement to benefits under the regulations referred to in paragraph 6B).

6B. Subject to paragraph 6C, a person (P) shall not be regarded as having recourse to public funds if P is entitled to benefits specified under section 115 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 by virtue of regulations made under sub-sections (3) and (4) of that section or section 42 of the Tax Credits Act 2002.

6C. A person (P) making an application from outside the United Kingdom will be regarded as having recourse to public funds where P relies upon the future entitlement to any public funds that would be payable to P or to P's sponsor as a result of P's presence in the United Kingdom, (including those benefits to which P or the sponsor would be entitled as a result of P's presence in the United Kingdom under the regulations referred to in to paragraph 6B)".

[grahamw48]

Thanks for 'clarifying' . :laugher:

[lastlid]

:icon_lol:

[lastlid]

I think they need to get someone in (maybe from Yorkshire) to rewrite the rules in plain english..........

[KeithD]

...or you can read this http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/modernised/cross-cut/public-funds/funds.pdf?view=Binary :D

[lastlid]

:icon_lol:

I had a read through the Isle of Man equivalent on Child Benefit yesterday and it is the same stuff but written in a way that Joe Public can understand. Amazing.

[jeanelovesdeano]

hi everyone, this thread catch my attention. just want to clarify if I will claim Maternity Grant here in UK even I gave birth to Philippines, will it still be considered as a recourse to public funds? would be glad to hear your response..thank u

[lastlid]

From pages 23 and 24 of the document posted by Win2Win on Public Funds

"This page lists the benefits that a person who is subject to immigration control can claim when their sponsor has signed a maintenance undertaking.
A maintenance undertaking is a written agreement given by a sponsor. It states that they will be responsible for the maintenance and accommodation of a person subject to immigration control while they are in the UK. It is an offence under the Social Security Administration Act 1992 for a sponsor not to maintain people who they are responsible for who then claim contributory based benefits because of this. These benefits may also be recovered from the sponsor.
The Home Office may take appropriate steps to recover amounts from the sponsor that were provided under section 95 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 (support for asylum seekers) to a person being sponsored.

People granted indefinite leave on the conditions of a maintenance undertaking


A person who has been granted leave and whose sponsor has signed a maintenance undertaking can claim the following funds:
 Attendance allowance
 Carer’s allowance
 Child benefit
 Disability living allowance
 Severe disablement allowance
 Contributory related employment and support allowance - ESA (C)
 Social fund payment.
They have full access to public funds:
 once they have been resident in the UK for five years, or
 if it has been five years since the maintenance undertaking was signed, whichever is the later date,if they have been resident for less than five years but their sponsor has died.
The additional funds they can claim are:
 Child tax credit
 Council tax benefit
 Housing benefit
 Income-based jobseeker’s allowance
 Income support
 Income related employment and support allowance - ESA (IR)
 Social fund payment
 Working tax credit."

[grahamw48]

...'but their sponsor has died'. :Erm:

Hide all sharp knives. :omg:

[malditako]

this thread is really interesting...husband bought this t-shirt after we received a letter stating that he is no longer entitle for claim of tax credit benefits

http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/gparry2007/IMG_0167.jpg

[grahamw48]

haha. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I'd get arrested for what mine would say. :rolleyes:

[mickcant]

I wonder if my overstaying ex has found a way round things to get money?
Mick.:)

[Michael Parnham]

When I arrived back in the UK, I contacted the council tax office to set up a direct debit to pay, when the paperwork arrived they sent a benifit application for housing and council tax. being a pensioner I filled it in and returned it. Aweek later a man from the council called to see me and stated that I would be allowed these benifits, I showed him my wifes 'visa' that states 'no recouse to public funds' he took the 'visa' to photocopy it and returned it by post confirming that I am eligable fo the benifits, I will point out that they are in my name only. Have you any comments Terpe? as I am a little concerned. By the way, my wife starts work in a couple of weeks and I will notify the council accordingly.

[joebloggs]

When I arrived back in the UK, I contacted the council tax office to set up a direct debit to pay, when the paperwork arrived they sent a benifit application for housing and council tax. being a pensioner I filled it in and returned it. Aweek later a man from the council called to see me and stated that I would be allowed these benifits, I showed him my wifes 'visa' that states 'no recouse to public funds' he took the 'visa' to photocopy it and returned it by post confirming that I am eligable fo the benifits, I will point out that they are in my name only. Have you any comments Terpe? as I am a little concerned. By the way, my wife starts work in a couple of weeks and I will notify the council accordingly.

your allowed to claim what ever benefits your eligible to claim Micheal, what your not allowed to do is claim 'more of a benefit' because your wife (who have 'no recourse to public funds') is with you.

[Michael Parnham]

Thanks Joebloggs, will check with council to find out what they are paying.

[briancol]

hi,im recieving carers allowance at the moment but in July this year (2013) in go onto Pension Credit as i'm @ that age now,can you tell me how long my wife has to be living in the UK before i can claim for her as well.up to now we've been living on my single persons carers allowance.thanks.:smile:

[Terpe]

hi,im recieving carers allowance at the moment but in July this year (2013) in go onto Pension Credit as i'm @ that age now,can you tell me how long my wife has to be living in the UK before i can claim for her as well.up to now we've been living on my single persons carers allowance.thanks.:smile:

What's the immigration status of your wife?
Until your wife has ILR there are a number of restrictions in place due to her 'no recouse to public funds' condition.

As for claims made in your name, you are limited to claim only what you would have been eligible to claim for had your wife not been here.
(there are a couple of exceptions such as working Tax Credits and Child Tax Credits).

Are you sure it's Carers Allowance you're receiving ?

Carers allowance is paid to one person only.
More than one person in the same household can claim Carer’s Allowance, but they must be caring for different people.
For example a husband can be caring for his wife and his wife may may be caring for someone else who lives with them. In which case, both the husband and wife can claim Carer’s Allowance.
Or let's say if both parents are caring for two disabled children and both meet the qualifying conditions for Carer’s Allowance, each could claim Carer’s Allowance for caring for one of the disabled children.

If you claim Carer's Allowance, it could affect the amount of benefit the person you care for receives.

I'm not a benefits advisor. You may find this link useful - Benefits Adviser (https://www.gov.uk/benefits-adviser)

[briancol]

hi Terpe.yes ive been on carers allowance for a number of years,i care for my elderly mother,my wife arrived here in June last year (2012) about 10 months or so,but as i go onto pension credit in July i wondered if/when i could claim for her as well,her passport says 'no recourse to public funds' but how long does that apply? also i'm not sure what ILR is.thanks.

[joebloggs]

also i'm not sure what ILR is.thanks.

you better start reading about it :biggrin:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/citizens-settled/spouse-cp/

[Terpe]

hi Terpe.yes ive been on carers allowance for a number of years,i care for my elderly mother,my wife arrived here in June last year (2012) about 10 months or so,but as i go onto pension credit in July i wondered if/when i could claim for her as well,her passport says 'no recourse to public funds' but how long does that apply? also i'm not sure what ILR is.thanks.

Brian, sorry for the abbreviation. ILR is Indefinite Leave to Remain. Once your wife has been living in UK for the 24 months she will be eligible to apply for ILR and then she'll be free all immigration constraints, especially the 'No recourse to public funds'. That 24 months qualifying period must be as your wife. It doesn't include time here as Fiancee.
When she has been here in UK for 3 years she can apply for British Citizenship. This time the 3 years will include time here as Fiancee.

Unfortunately Brian the ILR visa is rather expensive. Currently it stands at £1051

Brian does your wife work?

[briancol]

Thanks very much for the advice Terpe,her visa is Spouse Visa,and yes she's been here since June 2012 as my wife,so after 2 years she can apply for ILR,at present rate 1051,but by June 2014 i'm sure it will be more than that,.
then another year after that, she applies for British Citizenship,from June 2015,is that expensive too?.
No she doesnt work,she's been looking but cant find a job.So does that mean "my" Pension Credit is classed as "public funds"? we can live on that because we are not big spenders but will they accept that? but savings are virtually none exsistant.do you think we are going to have trouble when the time comes to apply? :Help1:

[Terpe]

Thanks very much for the advice Terpe,her visa is Spouse Visa,and yes she's been here since June 2012 as my wife,so after 2 years she can apply for ILR,at present rate 1051,but by June 2014 i'm sure it will be more than that,.
then another year after that, she applies for British Citizenship,from June 2015,is that expensive too?.
No she doesnt work,she's been looking but cant find a job.So does that mean "my" Pension Credit is classed as "public funds"? we can live on that because we are not big spenders but will they accept that? but savings are virtually none exsistant.do you think we are going to have trouble when the time comes to apply? :Help1:

Hi Brian, British Citizenship currently costs £874, so yes it's quite expensive especially when you also consider the £1051 paid out for ILR
These immigration steps certainly focus the need to save as much as possible.
Of course British Citizenship application is not mandatory, and may be made at any time after the 3 years living in UK
So nothing to be worried about regarding specific dates/timing.

Your Pension Credit is considered under public funds.
This means that although you may claim everything in your own name and eligibility, you must not include your wife whilst she is under immigration controls.
In principle this means you must inform the DWP that your claim cannot include your wife.

[briancol]

hi Terpe
i thought i'd left all the stress and worry behind after she got her spouse visa to come here.
now its starting all over again. only this time i dont have the savings i had then. i read on the Border Force website about exemptions for "carers" to the financial rules.
Exemptions
You will be exempt from the new financial requirement if your sponsor receives a specified disability-related benefit or carer's allowance in the UK. You will need to show that your sponsor can maintain and accommodate you without access to public funds.

[Terpe]

hi Terpe
i thought i'd left all the stress and worry behind after she got her spouse visa to come here.
now its starting all over again. only this time i dont have the savings i had then. i read on the Border Force website about exemptions for "carers" to the financial rules.
Exemptions
You will be exempt from the new financial requirement if your sponsor receives a specified disability-related benefit or carer's allowance in the UK. You will need to show that your sponsor can maintain and accommodate you without access to public funds.

These new rules do not affect your or your wife Brian.
Your wife will continue to be treated under old rules. Be thankful for that :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[briancol]

Terpe what are the old rules please ?:smile:

[Terpe]

Terpe what are the old rules please ?:smile:
These are the immigration rules in place before the 9 July 2012 changes involving financials of income thresholds. Also Brian your wife will be on a 2 year journey to ILR and 3 years to citizenship.
Anyone applying after 9 July is on a 5 year journey to ILR

[briancol]

yea i read that about the 5 year change,only thing about that is that she would have 5 years before she can apply which gives her 5 years to find a job,as it is its two year when she has to apply or become an illigal immigrant if she doesnt,i presume.i read that the amount required/they expect is 18,000 pounds a year,how much was it before the changes? thanks.

[Terpe]

yea i read that about the 5 year change,only thing about that is that she would have 5 years before she can apply which gives her 5 years to find a job,as it is its two year when she has to apply or become an illigal immigrant if she doesnt,i presume.i read that the amount required/they expect is 18,000 pounds a year,how much was it before the changes? thanks.

Well with this new 5 year immigration journey you have also to renew the visa again after 30 months with initial spouse visa.
That's a cost of £578. Then another 30 months later it's ILR at £1051
At each visa application there is a requirement to once again meet all Financial Requirements. Income benchmark currently set at an annual gross income level of £18,600.

The rule under which your wife applied and will continue to be treated under is a quick 2 years to ILR, no interim visa's to apply for and no income benchmark to meet.
She just needs to demonstrate adequate accommodation and maintenance. Just as you did at initial visa application.
This is traditionally based on income support levels. Currently £112.55 per week for a couple.

[briancol]

(She just needs to demonstrate adequate accommodation and maintenance. Just as you did at initial visa application.This is traditionally based on income support levels. Currently £112.55 per week for a couple)Thanks very much for that info Terpe,that takes a bit of the pressure off, provided they havn't and dont change it.because i was starting to worry again.Pension Credit is around 140 pounds per week i believe,for a Single person.we can live on that as we dont smoke or drink. Thanks again.God Bless.