Red Meat

[Terpe]

increases death, cancer and heart risk, says study


A diet high in red meat can shorten life expectancy, according to researchers at Harvard Medical School.

The study of more than 120,000 people suggested red meat increased the risk of death from cancer and heart problems.

Substituting red meat with fish, chicken or nuts lowered the risks, the authors said.

The British Heart Foundation said red meat could still be eaten as part of a balanced diet.

The researchers analysed data from 37,698 men between 1986 and 2008 and 83,644 women between 1980 and 2008.

Dr Rosemary Leonard says the risks associated with eating a lot of red meat are "very clear"
They said adding an extra portion of unprocessed red meat to someone's daily diet would increase the risk of death by 13%, of fatal cardiovascular disease by 18% and of cancer mortality by 10%. The figures for processed meat were higher, 20% for overall mortality, 21% for death from heart problems and 16% for cancer mortality.

The study said: "We found that a higher intake of red meat was associated with a significantly elevated risk of total, cardiovascular disease, and cancer mortality.

"This association was observed for unprocessed and processed red meat with a relatively greater risk for processed red meat."

The researchers suggested that saturated fat from red meat may be behind the increased heart risk and the sodium used in processed meats may "increase cardiovascular disease risk through its effect on blood pressure".

Victoria Taylor, a dietitian at the British Heart Foundation, said: "Red meat can still be eaten as part of a balanced diet, but go for the leaner cuts and use healthier cooking methods such as grilling.

"If you eat processed meats like bacon, ham, sausages or burgers several times a week, add variation to your diet by substituting these for other protein sources such as fish, poultry, beans or lentils."

Source:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17345967

[grahamw48]

That's most of us dying early then. :omg:

Can they please just make what IS left of my life less stressed by all these doom-laden reports. :bigcry:

Soon we'll all be on blinkin bread (reduced-salt wholemeal) and water. :NoNo:

Actually, the biggest problem facing the planet is OVER-population, so what are they worried about ?

[imagine]

i love my rump steak

[Terpe]

I love my bacon :hubbahubba:

I just heard someone suggest that home made sausages would be OK if the meat was prepared from a single piece of fresh meat.:Erm:

Wonder if home-cured bacon is OK.

[lastlid]

The Swedes recently did a study on processed meats and a strong correlation with pancreatic cancer......

http://junksciencecom.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/bjc-meat-pancreatic-cancer.pdf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16526695

[Doc Alan]

In a week when we’ve been told that something in Coke and Pepsi causes cancer ( not true for humans, the only possible link being indirect, through obesity ) I can imagine the reaction of members, the general public, hard working butchers and others in the meat trade, to scaremongering in the media about the perils of red meat.
Since the topic has been raised, I will put it into perspective, having read the original article
( http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/archinternmed.2011.2287 ).
In the UK, 2/5 of us can expect to get cancer ( over 200 different types ) at some stage, but treatment ensures that only half of these will cause death. 2/5 of the total are due to lifestyle factors such as smoking, diet, obesity, alcohol and occupation. Screening ( to diagnose early ), and vaccination ( to prevent ) help. However, at least half can’t realistically be avoided – age, hormones, geographical / environmental factors, and an element of luck ( where the cause is unknown ). Around 1/10 cancers may be linked to diet. What this American study of health professionals tells us is that too much red meat and processed meat could increase the risk of dying from cancer – they don’t say which, but other studies point to large bowel especially – by up to 16%.
As for cardiovascular disease, fewer of us are getting heart attacks, and more of those that do survive because of improving treatment. In the next few years, deaths from cancers will exceed those from cardiovascular disease. As with cancers, there are several main risk factors for cardiovascular disease apart from diet ( age, sex, high blood pressure, alcohol, exercise, and stress ). This study claims an increased risk of dying from heart disease due to too much red or processed meat of around 1/5.
This news is either going to annoy the general public and / or they will choose to ignore it, on the basis that “ You’ve got to die of something, I like red meat, bacon sandwiches, and sausages and I’ll decide what I want to eat “. Those who delve a little deeper and bother to read the evidence may well reach the same conclusion. Some might improve their diet, which is only one factor in life expectancy. Of course eating less red meat would be good for our planet. Livestock uses a third of the world’s land surface ( mostly for permanent pasture ), and half of the population is malnourished.

[aug06_2006]

my family not meat eater we're grass eater lol

[grahamw48]

Ah, I'm cutting the lawn tomorrow....will PM you. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Terpe]

..... What this American study of health professionals tells us is that too much red meat and processed meat could increase the risk of dying from cancer ...


...This study claims an increased risk of dying from heart disease due to too much red or processed meat of around 1/5...

Alan, does this report give any indications of what is meant by "too much" ?

One of the BBC's experts suggested it's OK to eat 3 or 4 steaks (the size of a deck of playing cards) per week. That's more than we have anyway.

Seems like a new report comes out at least every month now.

[lastlid]

I like red meat, bacon sandwiches, and sausages and I’ll decide what I want to eat . Those who delve a little deeper and bother to read the evidence may well reach the same conclusion.

Hi Doc. My impression from the blurb is that if we are over partial to processed meats and partake of such foods on a very regular basis then one is indeed more likely to develop pancreatic cancer. Have I got this wrong?

I like bacon and sausages too but I do show some restraint as I tend to think I will get fat, at best, if i don't. I therefore make a conscious decision to confine the amount of such foods to reasonable levels.

Having read the swedish study reports, basically, I am of a mind that if I eat processed meats in solely in moderation I will reduce my chances of high blood pressure, obesity and yes, maybe even pancreatic cancer. It might lead to a less exciting life from a culinary point of view but I hope it will lead to a longer and healthier life and a better sex life. (I will probably get run over by a bus tomorrow :D)

[grahamw48]

Alan, does this report give any indications of what is meant by "too much" ?

One of the BBC's experts suggested it's OK to eat 3 or 4 steaks (the size of a deck of playing cards) per week. That's more than we have anyway.

Seems like a new report comes out at least every month now.

I heard 'more than 500g a WEEK' quoted. :cwm3:

[lastlid]

Ah, I'm cutting the lawn tomorrow....will PM you. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Baaaaaaa :icon_lol:

[grahamw48]

Hmm, my friend (married to the Filipina ex-wife's cousin) died over a year ago from Pancreatic Cancer.

He was 69 years old, a 40+ a day smoker and a pretty big drinker too.

Spent 30 years in the Philippines and led a hell of a full (usually fit healthy) and adventurous life.

Yes, a few more years would have been good, but I don't remember him expressing any regrets in the days before his death.

This doesn't mean that I condone either drinking or smoking to excess, and I certainly witnessed what an awful way it is to go.

[lastlid]

Hmm, my friend (married to the Filipina ex-wife's cousin) died over a year ago from Pancreatic Cancer.

He was 69 years old, a 40+ a day smoker and a pretty big drinker too.

Spent 30 years in the Philippines and led a hell of a full (usually fit healthy) and adventurous life.

Yes, a few more years would have been good, but I don't remember him expressing any regrets in the days before his death.

This doesn't mean that I condone either drinking or smoking to excess, and I certainly witnessed what an awful way it is to go.


I agree. And I have a lovely young wife and I don't want to go too soon. I don't just have me to think about now.

[andy222]

I agree. And I have a lovely young wife and I don't want to go too soon. I don't just have me to think about now.

I see people die frequently. One thing I will say though. You dont know how and when you will die so just enjoy life while you can.

[lastlid]

I see people die frequently. One thing I will say though. You dont know how and when you will die so just enjoy life while you can.

I dont envy you your job Andy. You are a top man. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Doc Alan]

Cancer of the pancreas is usually bad news, but since it's been mentioned, I'll summarize it here. The ONLY good news is that it’s uncommon. There are about 8000 cases each year ( out of about 135,000 total ) in the UK, but unlike many commoner cancers, about the same number also die from it each year.
Pancreatic cancer is often a “silent cancer” because there are usually no symptoms in the early stages. Early symptoms are often vague, unrecognised, and be dismissed by patients and doctors alike.
Symptoms can include:
• Painless jaundice (yellow skin/eyes, dark urine)
• Significant and unexplained weight loss
• New onset of significant persistent abdominal pain
• New-onset diabetes NOT associated with weight gain
ALL of these can have other causes, and there is no reliable diagnostic test for pancreatic cancer, so it tends not to be diagnosed until it is advanced.
Risk factors include smoking ( 1/5 ), alcohol abuse and chronic pancreatitis, diabetes, stomach ulcer, and inflammatory bowel disease.
Because it is - fortunately – a rare cancer, and diet is such a complicated matter, we don’t know what dietary factors, such as red meat, may be linked to its cause. A large study ( EPIC = European Prospective Investigation Into Cancer and nutrition ) may give us the answer in the future.

[lastlid]

Cancer of the pancreas is usually bad news, but since it's been mentioned, I'll summarize it here. The ONLY good news is that it’s uncommon. There are about 8000 cases each year ( out of about 135,000 total ) in the UK, but unlike many commoner cancers, about the same number also die from it each year.
Pancreatic cancer is often a “silent cancer” because there are usually no symptoms in the early stages. Early symptoms are often vague, unrecognised, and be dismissed by patients and doctors alike.
Symptoms can include:
• Painless jaundice (yellow skin/eyes, dark urine)
• Significant and unexplained weight loss
• New onset of significant persistent abdominal pain
• New-onset diabetes NOT associated with weight gain
ALL of these can have other causes, and there is no reliable diagnostic test for pancreatic cancer, so it tends not to be diagnosed until it is advanced.
Risk factors include smoking ( 1/5 ), alcohol abuse and chronic pancreatitis, diabetes, stomach ulcer, and inflammatory bowel disease.
Because it is - fortunately – a rare cancer, and diet is such a complicated matter, we don’t know what dietary factors, such as red meat, may be linked to its cause. A large study ( EPIC = European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and nutrition ) may give us the answer in the future.

Cheers Doc. I am a little paranoid on the topic of the pancreas as I had pancreatitis a few years ago as a result of my gall bladder playing up. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[KeithD]

I've been telling people this for years :D I live on chicken :thorsten_rammler:

New Scientist has mentioned this numerous times, usually based on scientific evidence of the transfer of free radicals from the red meat, which are extremely high compared with white meat, beef being the worse, and I haven't eaten that since I was 16 :xxgrinning--00xx3:

For those of you who think you can take antioxidants to clean up free radicals, remeber they also clean up the good ones your body needs :omg:. The only double blind test of antioxidants I'm aware of over the long term resulted in a higher death rate for those who took them. :cwm24:

[lastlid]

I've been telling people this for years :D I live on chicken :thorsten_rammler:

New Scientist has mentioned this numerous times, usually based on scientific evidence of the transfer of free radicals from the red meat, which are extremely high compared with white meat, beef being the worse, and I haven't eaten that since I was 16 :xxgrinning--00xx3:

For those of you who think you can take antioxidants to clean up free radicals, remeber they also clean up the good ones your body needs :omg:. The only double blind test of antioxidants I'm aware of over the long term resulted in a higher death rate for those who took them. :cwm24:

No fish?

[lastlid]

For those of you who think you can take antioxidants to clean up free radicals, remeber they also clean up the good ones your body needs :omg:. The only double blind test of antioxidants I'm aware of over the long term resulted in a higher death rate for those who took them. :cwm24:

Damn. I was just polishing off a few grams of dried peaches.

[Doc Alan]

To answer Terpe's question ( " does this report give any indications of what is meant by "too much" ? " ) :-
The study defined “ standard serving portion sizes “ as 85g ( 3 oz ) for unprocessed red meat. Processed red meat included “ bacon “ ( 2 slices, 13 g ), “ hot dogs “ ( one, 45 g ), and “ sausage, salami, bologna, and other processed red meats ( 1 piece, 28 g ). They estimated ( their word ) that 9.3% in men and 7.6% in women of total deaths during follow up could be prevented if all the participants consumed fewer than 0.5 servings per day of total red meats in these cohorts ( groups ). That would be equivalent to one large steak a week. The average Briton is said to consume 70g ( 2.5 oz ) a day.
Their conclusion : “ We found that greater consumption of unprocessed and processed red meats is associated with higher mortality risk. Compared with red meat, other dietary components, such as fish, poultry, nuts, legumes, low-fat dairy products, and whole grains, were associated with lower risk. These results indicate that replacement of red meat with alternative healthy dietary components may lower the mortality risk. “
A sense of proportion is needed. It’s been suggested that people who have a diet high in red meat may be more likely to smoke, be overweight, and not exercise. These are called “ confounding variables “ for which this study adjusted. The sensible conclusion is that people should consider cutting down on red and processed meat as part of getting - and keeping - healthier.

[lastlid]

The sensible conclusion is that people should consider cutting down on red and processed meat as part of getting - and keeping - healthier.

That was my conclusion too.

[South-east boy]

Ah, I'm cutting the lawn tomorrow....will PM you. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

:icon_lol::icon_lol:

[Terpe]

Thanks for that explanation Doc.

[KeithD]

No fish?

I have fish/lamb/pork about once a week, just one of them though, not all 3 :)

You are what you eat .... which probably explains all the feathers on my :action-smiley-081: :icon_lol:

[lastlid]

Puuuuk puk puk puk puuuk.

[Vische]

Ah, I'm cutting the lawn tomorrow....will PM you. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

:icon_lol: nice

[Vische]

Fish and fruits are my favorite to eat and a little vegetables but i like pakbet all-out vegetables. We rarely eat pork/beef/chicken meat when i was a kid cause meat are only served when there are occasions we always eat seafoods like seashells, squids, different kinds of fish cause we're so near the sea my father use to catch some hahaha :icon_lol:

[sars_notd_virus]

we rarely eat red meat..my husband can eat chicken everyday:doh:
..the benefits??? he's nearly 50 and looks so lean and sexy :hubbahubba:

[lastlid]

Sexy and I know it...

[Terpe]

Sexy and I know it...

And now in even higher demand :D

[sars_notd_virus]

Sexy and I know it...

can we have that chicken for dinner tonight??

[Vische]

Sexy and I know it...

that chicken is yummy its a native chicken which is very tasty in Tinola :hubbahubba:

[imagine]

seems its safer not to eat :icon_lol:

beef fed with hormones,

chicken fed with with chicken,

crops sprayed with chemicals,

and dont drink the chemicals get in the water,

and dont breath, the air is polluted

and dont have sex, you might catch something,

and dont die, its too expensive , you might be cremated and cause more pollution,:laugher::laugher::laugher::laugher:

[fred]

that chicken is yummy its a native chicken which is very tasty in Tinola :hubbahubba:


that is not like any native chicken Ive seen ...If it is they must be throwing in a handful of steroids in the feed.!:Cuckoo::)

[grahamw48]

Just got back from my free NHS check-up (for old people).

Confirmed I'm still alive.

I've lost a half inch in height since being 18. :bigcry: 6'1" now, but weigh the same.

Blood pressure 129/69 (I smoke 6 or 7 cigs a day).

Blood tests results next week. Hmm.

[imagine]

I've lost a half inch in height since being 18. :bigcry: 6'1" now, but weigh the same.



ah but that will be half inch of the old platform shoes
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab164/Knoxx69/slade.jpg

[lastlid]

ah but that will be half inch of the old platform shoes
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab164/Knoxx69/slade.jpg

Another great UK band.....Noddy!

[KeithD]

and dont breath, the air is polluted

Did you know that the majority of airborne bacteria in London comes from dog poo? Serves those pesky Southerners right :icon_lol: ..... PS... I've got all my taps turned on, the local reservoir is overflowing :D

[grahamw48]

I NEVER wore those ridiculous platforms. :NoNo:

They were for shortarses.

I had no need for them. :D

Flares...YES ! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[imagine]

i remember i had a pair of purple crushed velvet pants:yikes: :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

[Terpe]

From red meat to plaform shoes, via dog poo, overflowing reservoir's and crushed velvet pants :doh
Diversity really is the spice of life :icon_lol:

You just couldn't make it up :Help1:

[grahamw48]

i remember i had a pair of purple crushed velvet pants:yikes: :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:


Own up Stuart...yer still wearing em. :icon_lol:

[imagine]

Own up Stuart...yer still wearing em. :icon_lol:

i wouldnt dare folk might think im bent :action-smiley-081::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

[Doc Alan]

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj517/DocAlan/images.jpg
These two are setting an example :icon_lol:.

[lastlid]

A new news story on this controversial topic.....

"Eating an extra portion of red meat every day will increase your risk of death by 13% annually, according to a new study. It sounds scary - but is it?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17389938

[hawk]

if you cook red meat long enough till it goes brown then you will be ok :laugher::laugher::laugher:

[lastlid]

if you cook red meat long enough till it goes brown then you will be ok :laugher::laugher::laugher:

Good idea. :xxgrinning--00xx3: :Erm:

[grahamw48]

Do they class Liver as red meat ? :Erm:

[Doc Alan]

Even the definition of meat types is not entirely consistent, which doesn’t make health studies easy ! Red meat is darker-coloured ( before cooking ), and contains more iron, in the form of haem, compared to white meat. Meat of adult mammals such as cows and sheep is considered red ; young mammals such as veal calves, sheep, pigs, together with chicken have white meat ; pork is variably called red or white; duck and goose meat are considered red. Liver may be called red meat, or included as offal / variety or organ meat ( internal organs and entrails ).
The professor (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17389938) tries to put the latest “ health scare “ media reports into context ( as I did in #6 ).
His example was of two men aged 40, same weight, exercise and job, the difference being that one eats an extra portion ( 85g = 3 oz ) of red meat every day.
"The person who eats more meat is expected to live one year less than the person who doesn't eat so much meat. You'd expect the 40-year-old who does eat the extra meat to live, on average, another 39 years, up to age 79, and the person who doesn't eat so much meat, you'd expect him to live until age 80."
“ That one year off the life of this 40-year-old hypothetical burger eater is equivalent to smoking two cigarettes a day, or being a bit overweight - about 5kg overweight. “
Of course his example is hypothetical because no two humans are completely alike, not even “ identical twins “. It’s hard to conduct randomised trials where eating habits are concerned. Research workers do their best, then get misquoted in the media and misunderstood by the public.
My brother is a butcher, and - while it may not be statistically significant - the latest “ health scare story “ has made no difference to what his customers think or buy !

[Terpe]

If anything, this study has motivated me to cut down on the 'red meats' we consume and focus more on chicken and fish.
Not necessarily due to health concerns but more because we actually enjoy chicken and fish more and besides, from a financial aspect it's easier on the wallet.

[grahamw48]

Likewise, but I do love my bacon. :bigcry:

[Terpe]

Likewise, but I do love my bacon. :bigcry:

Ah, yes, that is good point.
Mind you, I'm not a big eater of bacon but every now then I do love a bacon butty.:hubbahubba:

Especially if cooking smell of bacon is detected. It then becomes an uncontrolled craving.

[Steve.r]

Nice definition of what is white and what is red Alan.

I myself have just finished two rounds of smoked bacon butties for my lunch.... yummm!!!

I am sure that these scare stories only get to raise their heads when the media want us to focus on news other that the regular gloom we see. Stories like this are made to hit everyone, not just the few in the headlines.
I eat red meat, I eat white meat, I eat a salad three times a week with a jacket potatoe and a piece of meat. Each day in my lunch I eat at least two different fruits and a yoghurt. A varied diet and everything in moderation is fine. If I live a year less over an 80 year lifetime I have faired well already. I am not planning to change my eating pattern just because of a report in the news.

[Doc Alan]

Those brought up on Beatrix Potter, the author of “Squirrel Nutkin” and other long-loved nursery tales, may flinch; but Andrew Thornton, manager of the Budgens supermarket in the north London suburb of Crouch End, says sales of squirrel meat have soared since he started selling it in 2010.
The bushy-tailed tree-dwellers are just one category in a burgeoning market. Presumably - whether it’s red squirrel meat or grey squirrel meat – it comes with a warning : “ May contain nuts “ :icon_lol: ! Read more …
http://www.economist.com/node/21548935

[lastlid]

It sounds like most folk posting here are already exercising a modicum of balance. But it isnt always the case. Some people do eat excesses of red meat or processed meat etc. I used to work with a bloke who lived on Macdonalds burgers everyday, for example. And I am sure a full english every morning is something to be concerned about.

I know 1 year in 80 is of little consequence to most folk and rightly so, but it is obvious to me that some people get old far too prematurely compared to others. And of course this can be down to many factors. But one I am sure is the kind and amount of meat that we eat. Using Terpe's expression of minimising risk for visa applications can also be applied in our diet etc to minimising the chances of premature ageing.

I still feel that part of the Scottish problem and I have to confess I could never prove it, is down to a combination of that bit more alcohol, a penchant for a full english breakfast every day and an excess of deep fried mars bars etc :D. That one slice of bacon everyday maybe in itself will have negligible consequences, but when combined with a heap of other contributing "factors" in our diet and in our ways of life etc etc lead to premature old age.

I love bacon. And I was very fortunate to work in Denmark for a few years where I had freshly baked rolls stuffed with Danish Bacon every morning. Loved em. But I dont think they did me a lot of good.

[lastlid]

This dude seems to put it into perspective.

Is Red Meat Hazardous to Your Health?
Dr. Marc Gillinov discusses the association between red meat and poor health.

He really puts the accent on processed red meat and the additives added in the process.


http://abcnews.go.com/Health/video/red-meat-hazardous-health-15904754

[Doc Alan]

This dude seems to put it into perspective.


That's what I've spent a good number of hours this week attempting to do so for the forum !

[lastlid]

That's what I've spent a good number of hours this week attempting to do so for the forum !

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[stevewool]

rather eat fish and chicken :)

[lastlid]

The Deep Fried Mars Bar flagrantly advertised in the North East of Scotland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carron_fish_bar.jpg

[lastlid]

The ultimate statement for red / processed meat lovers....:D

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/viduploads-25265459/bacon-coffin-sizzles-onto-the-market-28906759.html

I wonder if they will do one in either hotdog form or burger....:D