Clampdown On Foreign Doctors' Language Skills

[Dedworth]

Five hundred senior doctors are to be given the job of preventing foreign-born staff with poor English from working in the NHS, the Health Secretary will announce.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9210312/NHS-team-to-test-English-of-foreign-doctors.html

Finally after years of hiding behind the smokescreen of EU rules it looks like something is being done to protect patients lives

[sars_notd_virus]

Good news...not being racist though whenever i need a check up with the surgery i always request the same doctor i had on my first visit, ....he is English and i can understand his language :D

[grahamw48]

Once again a situation that was created out of sheer STUPIDITY and was OBVIOUSLY to anyone with half a brain, FLAWED and potentially DANGEROUS, has been recognised as such YEARS down the line by the idiots running this country. :angry:

Better to have fewer PROPERLY QUALIFIED AND SUITABLE staff in the NHS than take chances with people's lives.

How many of our own youngsters could have been trained up using some of the billions that our governments have tossed down the drain ?

[Terpe]

This news is very welcomed and just plain common sense.

[lastlid]

Surely there must be enough graduate Medical students going through our universities annualy...

[grahamw48]

There is money to be made training foreign doctors.

Say no more. :rolleyes:

I haven't seen many campaigns around the schools recently encouraging our kids to take up the medical and nursing professions.

[lastlid]

There is money to be made training foreign doctors.

Say no more. :rolleyes:

I haven't seen many campaigns around the schools recently encouraging our kids to take up the medical and nursing professions.

I bet all of the places are full each year though.....I maybe wrong....too many 18 year olds wanting to spend a few years playing rugby and getting peast every night....with a bit of studying thrown in....:icon_lol:

[grahamw48]

Well maybe that's the fault of parents and education system then...another subject. ;)

[Dedworth]

Surely there must be enough graduate Medical students going through our universities annualy...

I think the Doc posted not too long ago the bizarre reasoning why we are training up British medical graduates who are not employed by the NHS - I expect he will contribute some qualified comment on this thread.

[lastlid]

I think the Doc posted not too long ago the bizarre reasoning why we are training up British medical graduates who are not employed by the NHS - I expect he will contribute some qualified comment on this thread.

I remember the Medical students at Leicester University....but that was a few years back....:icon_lol:

[joebloggs]

this is a load of :censored:, gov passing the buck, different standards for different people.

make everyone who works as a doctor or a nurse take the Academic version of IELTS and to pass they need at least 7.5 in each section, just as Non EU IMG's have to do now and as my misses rightly had to.

how are these people going to decide if they meet a standard unless they have some form of tests ? no if or buts if you didnt take your medical degree in the UK then you need IELTS. european or not.

[raynaputi]

this is a load of :censored:, gov passing the buck, different standards for different people.

make everyone who works as a doctor or a nurse take the Academic version of IELTS and to pass they need at least 7.5 in each section, just as Non EU IMG's have to do now and as my misses rightly had to.

how are these people going to decide if they meet a standard unless they have some form of tests ? no if or buts if you didnt take your medical degree in the UK then you need IELTS. european or not.

:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Doc Alan]

The issue of language and communication skills for doctors working in the UK has been raised several times on the forum, in the 3 years since Dr Daniel Ubami , a German trained GP on his first out-of-hours shift here, killed a 70 year old patient by giving him 10 times the normal dose of diamorphine.
Communication is of course vital for any doctor. It’s not confined to language skills but includes a knowledge of local culture and evidence-based medical practice.
This plan is long overdue, and it’s to be hoped the 500 senior doctors will be recruited by this summer.
Part of the delay in doing anything about this problem ( not just confined to Dr Ubami ) has been a misunderstanding of EU laws – themselves obviously not written in clear English. It’s a myth that EU rules require the UK to employ European doctors and nurses without proof that their clinical skills and English are up to scratch. European rules do set minimum requirements for doctors, just as our GMC does in the UK. But EU law does not say that a cursory look at people’s qualifications should be enough to give them a job where lives and health are at stake. That’s up to local employers – human resources departments, doctors and nurses. The measures at long last proposed by the English Health Secretary should strengthen these employer checks.
Of the 240,000 doctors on the UK medical register, about 2/5 qualified outside the UK. After the UK, India has the most doctors on our register ( 26,000 ). Less than a tenth of medical students are from outside the UK. Our universities are now producing more female than male doctors. Numbers of men and women entering medical school should reflect society and its needs. The GMC which has overall responsibility for medical education, hasn’t always got it right – there are inconsistencies in delivery of medical education. However, if medical students are to qualify as doctors, they have to work hard and consistently – if they don’t, they fail, which is bad for them, and extremely costly.
I have explained elsewhere the reasons for the numbers of foreign doctors in the UK. It’s complicated ! In part, it reflects unpopular specialties and / or locations. In part it reflects the effects of the European Working Time Directive ( “ 48 hour week “ ) which has impacted adversely on staffing levels, costs, and time available for training and patient contact. An independent review, chaired by a surgeon, Sir John Temple ( whom I respect ) recently concluded that high quality training can be delivered in 48 hours a week but not where trainees have a major role in out of hours services, are poorly supervised, and have limited access to training opportunities.
To say more – on a non medical forum – is inappropriate. However, imperfect as the NHS may be, a recent “ blue print “ for health services in the Philippines did model itself on our NHS. We can also be sure that the few Filipino doctors in this country have not only been well trained but also well tested before being allowed to work here. “ Joebloggs “ wife is one of them :xxgrinning--00xx3:.

[Terpe]

Well balanced and informative post Alan. Well done.:xxgrinning--00xx3:
This forum is lucky to have your attention, though sometimes I know we must keep you quite busy :rolleyes:

[Terpe]

..........We can also be sure that the few Filipino doctors in this country have not only been well trained but also well tested before being allowed to work here. “ Joebloggs “ wife is one of them :xxgrinning--00xx3:.

:xxgrinning--00xx3:
Big respect to Mrs Bloggs who has worked long and hard with set goals and determination. I don't think many Filipino's have climbed that mountain.

[lastlid]

I must say BTW, having spent a few hours at the NHS hospital here on the Isle of Man today, that Mrs Lastlid was able to see the wonders of the NHS at its best. I think she understands completely, now, how lucky we are here.....

[Dedworth]

Thanks for the input Doc :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Terpe]

I must say BTW, having spent a few hours at the NHS hospital here on the Isle of Man today, that Mrs Lastlid was able to see the wonders of the NHS at its best. I think she understands completely, now, how lucky we are here.....

My wife has some interesting first hand views on our NHS
She spent quite some time attempting to secure a non-emergency procedure at our local hospital. Eventually it got done and she spent a couple of nights there.
Most of her views I tend to agree with.

From our life in Japan she has always been used to being the 'customer'
The NHS seemed somewhat different in her experience. Replace the word 'customer' with 'service user'.

Not meant to be negative and no offence intended. Just an honest view from someone who never experienced our NHS healthcare.

[lastlid]

My wife has some interesting first hand views on our NHS
She spent quite some time attempting to secure a non-emergency procedure at our local hospital. Eventually it got done and she spent a couple of nights there.
Most of her views I tend to agree with.

From our life in Japan she has always been used to being the 'customer'
The NHS seemed somewhat different in her experience. Replace the word 'customer' with 'service user'.

Not meant to be negative and no offence intended. Just an honest view from someone who never experienced our NHS healthcare.

I don't disagree Terpe. I have been a customer or service user myself. I have experienced the understaffing and the poor food. I had been chatting with my wife over tea in the hospital and the penny really dropped with her that the NHS was free to all regardless of ability to pay. I know that in essence we do pay but the whole idea of anyone having free access to hospitalisation seemed to get her attention compared to back home.

I think that sometimes we dont realise how lucky we are here in the UK (and Islands). My wife had never really been in hospital, even at birth as it has been out her families ability to pay, so what she sees here appears quite marvellous.

Also the IOM hospital here is brand new and well appointed. - I have experienced BUPA hospitals and was also well impressed with this one.

I dont think the NHS is a complete horror story. And from my direct experience it was the NHS (Trafford General) that diagnosed my gall bladder problem. The BUPA consultant didnt have a clue...........

[joebloggs]

thanks Doc Alan for your post, but this sounds like 2 different systems to me, from what i've read, maybe i'm wrong but there is no mention of scrapping the IELTS requirement for IMG's, so who are these 500 people going to check ?. everyone or just those Non EU doctors married to Europeans in the UK and Non Uk European doctors?.

IELTS has been a requirement for years for IMG's, and that requirement should apply to all doctors who work in the UK.

for filipino doctors Terpe I think you would be wrong about the 'customer' and 'service user', onething my misses had to get use to was in the phils the doctor/customer relationship, in the UK its a more 'caring' customer approach, while in the phils the doctor has a more detatched business relationship with the customer. i'm probably using the wrong words here.

but many of her exams question in the UK have been on showing empathy. compassion to the patient, something my misses struggled a bit with !

i've used the NHS a few times, sure there are problems but i've no major complaints, as for the food, i've just flown using Singapore Airlines to the Phils, they are suppose to have excellent meals, but how many people eat all the meals, not me :NoNo:

[lastlid]

for filipino doctors Terpe I think you would be wrong about the 'customer' and 'service user', onething my misses had to get use to was in the phils the doctor/customer relationship, in the UK its a more 'caring' customer approach, while in the phils the doctor has a more detatched business relationship with the customer. i'm probably using the wrong words here

Bedside manner?

From the "beds eye view", I would say that the caring approach holds good in NHS hospitals, for the most part but not by all. The problem that I saw in Trafford General in Manchester, was understaffing and staffing by the under-qualified. An overworked auxiliary nurse ain't gonna have too good a bedside manner when she is overstretched ......

At Nobles Hospital here on the IOM the staff were excellent, yesterday.

"98% of in-patients are satisfied with the level of care provided to them at Noble’s Hospital; that’s the result of a recent survey carried out by the hospital’s Patient Safety and Quality Forum".


http://www.gov.im/health/ViewNews.gov?page=lib/news/health/98ofinpatientssa.xml&menuid=11570