Today - BBC1 Andrew Marr Show with Theresa May - Immigration

[Terpe]

This is not another thread on immigration.
Just a heads up on a TV programme.

I didn't want it to get lost within any other threads that's all.

Theresa May will be appearing on The Andrew Marr show to talk about immigration.

BBC1 9:00

Might be interesting!

[lastlid]

Watching it now. £18600 threshold and deference to / use of the other part of article 8 i.e. article 8b.....

[Terpe]

Watching it now. £18600 threshold.....

plus new more comprehensive English Language Test and Life in UK

[joebloggs]

yes maybe the gov has gone for the lower figures because they know the problems they would face and because of the leaked letter and headlines in the press, gov can not face another U turn. still the problems do not go away, there will be court cases/judicial reviews on this.

what :censored: me off is they keep using the word immigrant partner or Non EU partner, yet many of these are wife's or husbands of British citizens.

[joebloggs]

plus new more comprehensive English Language Test and Life in UK

whats new thou, they already do this, push the pass mark up, i can see court cases on this too if they go too far.

[Iani]

She hasn't said when it will come in. Said the Britishness test will be next year, but not the language test or income level. Next week or next year?

[grahamw48]

Nooo !

Don't want to risk putting my foot through my nice TV. :NoNo:

[joebloggs]

i think in the telegraph it mentions July, which is possible,
the test take time to organize and test/english language providers too time to prepare of it.

[lastlid]

plus new more comprehensive English Language Test and Life in UK

Yes. Seems like the Life in the UK test may soon apply to visa applicants.

No mention of the so called Attachment Test.

[lastlid]

i think in the telegraph it mentions July, which is possible,
the test take time to organize and test/english language providers to time to prepare of it.

The easy solution is just to raise the level expected, up from A1 to a higher level. So no need for the test centres to make alterations in this case.

[joebloggs]

not a word about EU citizens in the UK bringing their Eu and Non Eu families to the UK and claiming benefits from the tax payer :angry:

and why didn't he ask her about this :angry:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-18379925

[joebloggs]

The easy solution is just to raise the level expected, up from A1 to a higher level. So no need for the test centres to make alterations in this case.

true, but push the pass mark up, more people will fail, more retakes, more people needing to go on courses, but i was thinking about the Britishness test, what ever that is, must be similar to the life in UK test,

[lastlid]

Well thats it. Straight from the horse's mouth eh? Bad news for some but a sigh of relief for many.

[Robert86]

when will these new rules come in to force:xxaction-smiley-047

[Robert86]

no wonder some scots want independence, being ruled by these muppets!:cwm23:

[joebloggs]

Well thats it. Straight from the horse's mouth eh? Bad news for some but a sigh of relief for many.

i still think the gov will have problems with the HRC and article 8, also no mention of people who dont work, does this apply to them to ? , retired or can not work because of some disability. also if you have kids - the best interest of the child could be a problem for the gov, complainants to MP from people who are refused a visa because of this, problems extending FLR to 5yrs, etc etc..

[Soltane]

to be honest Robert i don't think anyone cares who's got a filipino wife when these rules come in if they come in at all everytime the government has been taken to court they lose but what rags me off is in the last 8 months or so the Visa fee has risen something like £300 in the last 8 months just paid ours wish us luck

[lastlid]

i still think the gov will have problems with the HRC and article 8, also no mention of people who dont work, does this apply to them to ? , retired or can not work because of some disability. also if you have kids - the best interest of the child could be a problem for the gov, complainants to MP from people who are refused a visa because of this, problems extending FLR to 5yrs, etc etc..

From my own viewpoint, it is better than it could have been. But it still ought to be thought through a little more. And of course from our own perspective the ILR bit may well affect me and Mrs Lastlid. I guess more will come out soon. I am still intrigued about the attachment test, though having thought about it my feeling is that whatever they realistically throw at us ( and the IOM generally shadows UK law on this stuff) we will be able to stand up to.

I sympathise with Robert86 and Andy222. People who are performing an essential public service and who may well get a kick in the nuts from Mrs May :NoNo:

(Apologies Andy if I have your figures wrong)

[joebloggs]

maybe people will feel relieved in away because it could have been worse, it could have been £25.6k and not £18.6, like i said maybe she changed her mind, trying to justify £25.6k when 2/3rds dont earn that is unfair. but still its more restrictions on British people bringing a partner to the UK :angry:, while the European yeah yeah you know the story :rolleyes:

[lastlid]

maybe people will feel relieved in away because it could have been worse, it could have been £25.6k and not £18.6, like i said maybe she changed her mind, trying to justify £25.6k when 2/3rds dont earn that is unfair. but still its more restrictions on British people bringing a partner to the UK :angry:, while the European yeah yeah you know the story :rolleyes:

Yes. And it paves the way for them to step it up a notch at a later date.......

[stevewool]

the biggest problem is the brittish public themselves, the average joe thinks everyone from outside england are foreign, so all those europeans will not be allowed here if they dont earn that much, mark my words on that,the problem is europe, what it cost us to bring our partners here and then they contribute into the system, england cannot lose, do the means test to anyone coming here, from any country and watch the count drop , the more to read into this the more it makes you angry, we are being taken over by europe not by the yellow man, just my thoughts dont mean to offend

[Terpe]

maybe people will feel relieved in away because it could have been worse, it could have been £25.6k and not £18.6, like i said maybe she changed her mind, trying to justify £25.6k when 2/3rds dont earn that is unfair. but still its more restrictions on British people bringing a partner to the UK :angry:, while the European yeah yeah you know the story :rolleyes:

Based on the very short interview and on what Theresa May reavealed there is certainly a lot more to come.
Reading between the lines there were strong hints that additional restrictions would be placed on "migrants" bringing their family members into UK.

Also that many of the new changes would be applicable to EEA migrants.

Plenty to think about and plenty issues not mentioned.

Anyone who is really interested should read the MAC report as it contains all the stuff that is yet to come. The government hardly ever ignores what MAC suggest.

At least for now we know the Income level and that it was based on the lower limit of a range suggested by MAC.
Whether that logic could be extrapolated to other family/settle issues remains to be seen, but it gives hope.

Of course there will be court case etc on many aspects of the new immigration rules just as there has always been.
Don't forget that the current financial requirements were actually finalised after a number of court cases and judgements made by tribunal.
That's the nature of such rules/laws/policy and why caselaw plays such an important role. Especially in appeals.

Watch this space eh.

[lastlid]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jz5fh/The_Andrew_Marr_Show_10_06_2012/

37 minutes in to the program. Theresa May interview.

[joebloggs]

yes it makes sense to use the lower limit to start with and then to increase the limit each April along with the yearly increase in visa fee's :rolleyes:

Peter i dont think they can do anything to restrict Europeans from working or bringing their family to the UK, all that's covered by EU law as you know, not the British immigration system. only thing each country controls is it laws on citizenship.

i'm :angry: about the change from 2yrs to 5yrs of FLR, as this was the only advantage of a spouse visa over a family permit. how can this gov justify that a partner of a British citizen has to wait 5yrs to gain citizenship the same as a European living in the UK partner :crazy:

[stevewool]

ok lads have i got this right, if you are a imigrant to this country and you want to bring your partner here or kids extenderd family and so on, this is what this is all about , so what if you are brittish, born here go back generations surely you are not a imirgrant, nothing is mentioned about a brittish national bringing his wife here, we have had to show we can support of future partners if they come here and have to have so much in the bank and never be overdrawn so am i reading and understanding this new law right,

[lastlid]

Anyone who is really interested should read the MAC report as it contains all the stuff that is yet to come. The government hardly ever ignores what MAC suggest.


Yes. I noticed that they have followed the MAC report all or most of the way.

[lastlid]

ok lads have i got this right, if you are a imigrant to this country and you want to bring your partner here or kids extenderd family and so on, this is what this is all about , so what if you are brittish, born here go back generations surely you are not a imirgrant, nothing is mentioned about a brittish national bringing his wife here, we have had to show we can support of future partners if they come here and have to have so much in the bank and never be overdrawn so am i reading and understanding this new law right,

A british person born and bred needs to earn 18600 per year or more to bring a non eu wife here Steve, without any kids coming in. More if there are kids coming in too.

[joebloggs]

ok lads have i got this right, if you are a imigrant to this country and you want to bring your partner here or kids extenderd family and so on, this is what this is all about , so what if you are brittish, born here go back generations surely you are not a imirgrant, nothing is mentioned about a brittish national bringing his wife here, we have had to show we can support of future partners if they come here and have to have so much in the bank and never be overdrawn so am i reading and understanding this new law right,

its for anyone who wants to bring a Non EU partner (wife or husband) to the UK, the Immigrant is the Non EU person, so if your British or on some other visa then this probably applies to you, the only people it doesn't apply to are Europeans living in the UK - they can bring their wife and family to the UK from any country it doesn't effect them, whether its in Europe or not, that's one thing that's unfair about it . :angry:

[stevewool]

cant see where it says british person born and bred, says imigrant here wanting to bring there family, yes i may be seeing wrong, but also when we started filling in the forms to bring our partners, here we had to put in bank statements and to make sure we had enough money to support our new family too, thats why they are here because we passed all that they requied, sorry to sound silly but it does take some sinking in

[joebloggs]

if your partner is not from the EU, they they are classed as an Immigrant by the gov. i dont think i have ever heard anyone in the Gov mention EU immigrants, i think they call them EU workers :NoNo:,

[grahamw48]

enough money to support our new family

That's what they want to increase, and the main point of contention. :cwm3:

[andy222]

From my own viewpoint, it is better than it could have been. But it still ought to be thought through a little more. And of course from our own perspective the ILR bit may well affect me and Mrs Lastlid. I guess more will come out soon. I am still intrigued about the attachment test, though having thought about it my feeling is that whatever they realistically throw at us ( and the IOM generally shadows UK law on this stuff) we will be able to stand up to.

I sympathise with Robert86 and Andy222. People who are performing an essential public service and who may well get a kick in the nuts from Mrs May :NoNo:

(Apologies Andy if I have your figures wrong)

Thanks lastlid. What will be will be mate. Thats the way i think now. So will it definately be £18600?
Gross or net?

[Iani]

So ok, I went back to bed because this has hit me hard. I'm actually not THAT far off this threshold, and should be there if it wasn't for a string of bad luck at work - long story, not for here. I earn just short of 17k

My fiance and I have been making plans to marry in October over there. She is really nervous when I told her of these plans, but says she can try work in the middle east for a year - she understandably is scared at the thought.

I haven't told her what's been said, but she just phoned me where she's out for dinner with friends, suspected I wasn't all there, questioned me hard, but I brushed it off - got indigestion or something.
Came off the phone and cried like a baby. I can't remember the last time I felt like that.

So when do I finish with her? Tell her tonight we're over, we can't be together?
My ex who knew me for 15 years, and weirdly likes me more now we're divorcing, she's scared and has told me to phone the samaritans.

Know what else - if my company moved me to London, my salary would increase dramatically for doing the exact same job, but I couldn't afford to live there. Madness

[andy222]

Join the club mate. But I wont be divorcing or finishing. Many in the phils leave their wives for months when they work at sea. Visiting 2 or 3 times a year is just as good.Not ideal I know but what else is there.

[stevewool]

Iani, never give up your dream or your women, there is always a way, yes Emma is here and we are married, but we both know one day we will both be in bohol to spend the rest of our days together,i dont know what peoples plans are , all i can say if i was in your shoes, just wait, tell your partner everything is fine, you love her and you will be together one day,

[Iani]

Thanks guys

So hands up, whose going to be supporting the tories next election :icon_lol:

[grahamw48]

So ok, I went back to bed because this has hit me hard. I'm actually not THAT far off this threshold, and should be there if it wasn't for a string of bad luck at work - long story, not for here. I earn just short of 17k

My fiance and I have been making plans to marry in October over there. She is really nervous when I told her of these plans, but says she can try work in the middle east for a year - she understandably is scared at the thought.

I haven't told her what's been said, but she just phoned me where she's out for dinner with friends, suspected I wasn't all there, questioned me hard, but I brushed it off - got indigestion or something.
Came off the phone and cried like a baby. I can't remember the last time I felt like that.

So when do I finish with her? Tell her tonight we're over, we can't be together?
My ex who knew me for 15 years, and weirdly likes me more now we're divorcing, she's scared and has told me to phone the samaritans.

Know what else - if my company moved me to London, my salary would increase dramatically for doing the exact same job, but I couldn't afford to live there. Madness

Don't be daft man. :NoNo:

Act in haste..repent at leisure etc.

You'd only need an extra bit of part-time work shown on your payslips and bank statements for 6 months. You need to start thinking more creatively.

Christ I brought my wife AND her two kids over and I didn't (on paper) have a job here, anywhere to live or sod all basically.
I'd been out of the country in Hong Kong for 3 years !

I soon put that right though.

Oh, and I certainly wouldn't be wanting a fiancee of mine to be working as a slave in that middle-east hellhole.

[lastlid]

You'd only need an extra bit of part-time work shown on your payslips and bank statements for 6 months. You need to start thinking more creatively.



:xxgrinning--00xx3: Nice tip.

[Terpe]

So ok, I went back to bed because this has hit me hard. I'm actually not THAT far off this threshold, and should be there if it wasn't for a string of bad luck at work - long story, not for here. I earn just short of 17k

My fiance and I have been making plans to marry in October over there. She is really nervous when I told her of these plans, but says she can try work in the middle east for a year - she understandably is scared at the thought.

I haven't told her what's been said, but she just phoned me where she's out for dinner with friends, suspected I wasn't all there, questioned me hard, but I brushed it off - got indigestion or something.
Came off the phone and cried like a baby. I can't remember the last time I felt like that.

So when do I finish with her? Tell her tonight we're over, we can't be together?
My ex who knew me for 15 years, and weirdly likes me more now we're divorcing, she's scared and has told me to phone the samaritans.

Know what else - if my company moved me to London, my salary would increase dramatically for doing the exact same job, but I couldn't afford to live there. Madness

Iani,

I agree with Graham.
Especially with working in the Middle East!! That should be a big no no.

At this moment in time we only know that there is an income threshold and what that limit will be.
We do not know when it will be effective
We do not know how it will be implemented
We do not know about third party sponsors / co-sponsors
In short we know nothing more than was divulged by her in the TV interview.

As Graham says, you only need a small part time job and you'll reach the threshold.

Iani, do not make any hasty life changing decisions this this time.

Just wait and see how the new changes will be worked out.

You have plenty of options for your life together with your fiancee. More than lots of other people.

When the facts are known that's the time to develop some alternative strategies/options. You'll get plenty of ideas here in the forum, and plent of serious help on deciding the best way for you.

Just concentrate on staying calm for the moment.

You need to calm down and think of the positives in your life.

[joebloggs]

Thanks guys

So hands up, whose going to be supporting the tories next election :icon_lol:


yes i read somewhere at the last election, those that needed to the immigration system were like Turkeys voting for xmas , if you voted tory :cwm24:

like others have said, part time job til you get the visa and then again when it comes to applying for ILR in 5yrs time :NoNo:


Iani,


We do not know about third party sponsors / co-sponsors


i think it's been mentioned that 3rd party support will only be allowed in the 'most compassionate circumstances'

[Iani]

Part time job? So that would be allowed, it doesn't have to be on the same P60?

Hmm wonder if that newsagent needs a new paperboy :icon_lol:

[lastlid]

Part time job? So that would be allowed, it doesn't have to be on the same P60?



I imagine that as long as you can prove it then it will sufffice.

[joebloggs]

:angry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OHhJ26BoN4

[joebloggs]

Part time job? So that would be allowed, it doesn't have to be on the same P60?

Hmm wonder if that newsagent needs a new paperboy :icon_lol:

I'm sure those on tier2 visa's who's income from their there job was not enough to qualify them for extending their visa or applying for ILR could take a second job in certain conditions.

so i think it would be possible to get a part time job, and i think once your wife is here and working they would have to include her wage to.

[grahamw48]

They're not interested in whether you have one job or ten.

They just want to see that you have enough money coming in. :doh

[joebloggs]

They're not interested in whether you have one job or ten.

They just want to see that you have enough money coming in. :doh

:icon_lol: i can see people finding loop holes and scams in this to get to the figure (especially if you have a few kids) :icon_lol:

[grahamw48]

Just as they have done for years.

Immigration are half-baked on some things and too strict on others....mainly because they don't know their .... from their elbow. :NoNo:

Should be recruiting people like you me and Dedworth into the job.

We'd soon sort the wheat from the chaff. :)

[Iani]

I'd like to nominate Dedworth for the new ambassador to Romania :D

[lastlid]

I'd like to nominate Dedworth for the new ambassador to Romania :D

:D

[lastlid]

Just as they have done for years.

Immigration are half-baked on some things and too strict on others....mainly because they don't know their .... from their elbow. :NoNo:

Should be recruiting people like you me and Dedworth into the job.

We'd soon sort the wheat from the chaff. :)

:D

[lastlid]

I'd like to nominate Dedworth for the new ambassador to Romania :D

And Graham? :D

[Iani]

Well perhaps Graham to be community liason officer for taxi drivers, kebab shop owners and religious affairs in Bradford and Leicester

[grahamw48]

:Erm:

No, can't print that. :NoNo:

[lastlid]

Guardian Comment on Theresa May on The Andrew Marr Show

"May said she would set out on Monday an overhaul of the rules on family migration that will mean UK citizens earning less than £18,600, depending on the number of children involved, will not be allowed to bring a foreign husband, wife or partner into Britain to live with them.

The gross income threshold is lower than the minimum £25,700 figure that May tried to persuade Nick Clegg to accept, according to a letter leaked in March. The home secretary said a minimum gross income of £24,800 would be needed if there were two children involved, with a further £2,200 for each extra child.

It is believed that as many as 25,000 families a year could be affected by the changes."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jun/10/theresa-may-human-rights-lawyers

[andy222]

Surley the right to family life still applies?

[joebloggs]

Surley the right to family life still applies?

you would have thought so, may was talking about taking article 8 away from criminals, but someone, somewhere will have to challenge the gov on the minimum income, as they did with the english language test (the gov won that court case thou :NoNo:)

[sars_notd_virus]

Booooooooooo!!! ...when asked about the migrants she replied about ''contingency''??? and ''no signs of trends '' wat the f*@k does that mean????:Cuckoo::crazy:

[Arthur Little]

not a word about EU citizens in the UK bringing their Eu and Non Eu families to the UK and claiming benefits from the tax payer :angry:

and why didn't he ask her about this :angry:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-18379925

:yeahthat: ... kind of "marred" things, :iagree:

[Iani]

I know it's been asked before, but has anyone ANY idea when this will be implemented - or has heard her say when?

The Britishness tests - yes that's next year, but they don't have to wait until then for the income - or maybe they intend to for various reason.
Really need to know this to plan :(

[DeltaRomeo]

Really need to know this to plan :(

Yes me too. Already paid and taken the TOEICS test but now looks like that will be redundant. We will marry in October and start the visa application at the end of October, everything was thought out.. except for these changes.

I guess we just have to wait for the publication of the changes later in the week.

[joebloggs]

Y

I guess we just have to wait for the publication of the changes later in the week.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/2012/june/13-family-migration

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/news/soi-fam-mig.pdf

[gWaPito]

maybe people will feel relieved in away because it could have been worse, it could have been £25.6k and not £18.6, like i said maybe she changed her mind, trying to justify £25.6k when 2/3rds dont earn that is unfair. but still its more restrictions on British people bringing a partner to the UK :angry:, while the European yeah yeah you know the story :rolleyes:

2/3 rds of whom? Yorkshire? The last survey you politely served us with was of a poll of 531 peoples out of a annual turnover of 250000. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

:Erm:
thats a gov poll, not mine , £250,000 :icon_lol: the bullingdon boys again :yikes::laugher:

[gWaPito]

:Erm:
thats a gov poll, not mine , £250,000 :icon_lol: the bullingdon boys again :yikes::laugher:

I mean't applicants not money:D
yes, ol know goverment survey, Joe...what I was meaning, you could of searched for a more comprehensive one more in tune to the amount of applicants who apply per year. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Btw...Bullington boys ...you lost me there, Joe :)

[Terpe]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7035/6454291203_ab80b368fa_z.jpg

[joebloggs]

Btw...Bullington boys ...you lost me there, Joe :)

http://k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/archives/cameron-bullingdon-club.jpg

Cameron, Osborne and Boris :rolleyes: those will the broadest shoulders got a nice tax at the budget :D

I emailed the Andrew Marr show, my question is on the Beeb web site, didnt have much time to write sumthing as May was already on air. :angry:

guess which question/comment it was :icon_lol:

[hawk]

cant see how i can get my wife over here at all with the changes i dont have any savings and by my calculations i wont get £18000 more like £15000 so am :censored:from the start plus as i drive a hgv in 2 years time i got to take a cpc or i cant drive another thing from our friendly eu i got to pay for thats 2 weeks wage for me that i cant afford i cant see any light at the end of any tunnel for me and maybe for lots of others THE END IS COMING FAST:angry::furious3:

[Arthur Little]

Bullington boys ...you lost me there, Joe :)

:anerikke: ... ME too!! Never even knew who Joe'd been talking about until he posted the old photo of 'em.

[Arthur Little]

May was already on air. :angry:

Aye ... blowing :xxparty-smiley-050: hot air!

[Terpe]

cant see how i can get my wife over here at all with the changes i dont have any savings and by my calculations i wont get £18000 more like £15000 so am :censored:from the start plus as i drive a hgv in 2 years time i got to take a cpc or i cant drive another thing from our friendly eu i got to pay for thats 2 weeks wage for me that i cant afford i cant see any light at the end of any tunnel for me and maybe for lots of others THE END IS COMING FAST:angry::furious3:

Never give up hawk :xxgrinning--00xx3:
We're all here to support you with ideas etc.

Firstly, any chance to get a spouse visa application submitted by July 8th ?

[Jack1969_uk]

Reading the threads on the site is somewhat confusing to me as I read I see the words "Bringing in a spouse from Philippines. So the British guy meets a Filipina in Philippines they get married and then they apply for Spouse Visa here in UK.
In order to bring her into the country he must be earning a minimum of £18600 which as been set as a income level by the Home Office.
This I can understand and I think people will have to adhere to this to fulfill the immigration criteria.

The problem is some guys in UK who are on benefits and cant meet this criteria and because of this its difficult for them to bring in there wife from Philippines.
Sadly due to the Economic Climate I fall into the category of being on benefits JSA,HB,CT but i,m due to be married in 22 days here in London to my Filipina GF whom I love very very much, She came to UK in Jan 2009 on a student Visa and as kept up her schooling where many have dropped out, Her Visa allows her to work only 10hrs per week but full time in non school time like holidays.
I am wondering if this law being brought in on 9th July is only for those intending to bring someone in to the UK in the near future or will it affect me also even if she was already here in UK we met in 2011 and have been together since.I and she were questioned by the Registrar and we gave them info on each other the only thing she got wrong was my date of birth. Silly thing to happen but you never know with Registrars and UKBA if this may be a issue(will find out on the day if unexpected guests turn up (UKBA) but we have nothing to hide as this is a very loving and genuine relationship and to imagine life without her is not even worth thinking about she is everything I have ever wanted in life she is loving,caring,considerate and we get along in a very loving relationship. my family adore her my kids adore her and she as made alot of effort to intergrate with my family and friends.
I hope for our sake we can get married and pursue FLR without need for this Income threshold.