An Update!!!!

[Stuart]

Where do I start? I travelled to the Phillipines and met my lady!!!! Eveything went well met her family and got engaged!!! Then we hit problems..... The new English tests needed to be done so, we had to get these sorted. So I had to fly home alone!!!! It then took months to get results!!! :doh All paperwork was handed in then we got refused? Because we didn't provide any evidence we were going to get married!!!! ??? Thats true because when I phoned to arrange booking I was told both of us needed to apply in person? That told me she had to be in this country? How can she get in ? Now new rules are set to kick in!!! Which means people on benefits cant act as sponsors??? We are both very upset :cwm24: Advice please wise ones!!!!! I'm actually thinking of leaving this country!!!!! :angry:

[Iani]

Hi Stuart

Right, lets take this one at a time.

First - I am guessing you have tried to apply for a fiance visa. Yes you are quite right, they will not take bookings unless you are both there, however you can get evidence that you approached them, you can get quotes from hotels for party, maybe a quote from a bridal hire shop? That sort of thing. Oh and screen prints when you chatted online if you discussed getting married.

The new rules, yes that is quite a blow and I don't want to say much more in case it is I who blows :doh
Any chance you can re-apply or appeal before the rules kick in? Yes you would have to get your rear in gear to say the least, time isn't just ticking, the egg-timer sand is running out.

Umm, this is pure guesswork and speculation, but it's not impossible the rules may be changed in time - maybe not even that far into the future, as there's some evidence the opposition is preparing a response, there may be challenges, and this government has a history of U turns, but frankly, don't prepare for that, might not happen.

As for leaving the country, well can you work abroad? You have to make a living after all. Don't for bleeps sake try working in SE Asia without a work permit.

[Arthur Little]

All paperwork was handed in then we got refused? Because we didn't provide any evidence we were going to get married!!!! ??? Thats true because when I phoned to arrange booking I was told both of us needed to apply in person? That told me she had to be in this country? How can she get in ? Now new rules are set to kick in!!! Which means people on benefits cant act as sponsors??? We are both very upset :cwm24: Advice please wise ones!!!!! I'm actually thinking of leaving this country!!!!! :angry:

Sorry to learn of the visa refusal, Stuart.

Two things:

1. Apart from what you've mentioned ... was your fiancee given any OTHER reason(s)? :Erm:

2. Did you and/or your fiancee point out the advance booking difficulties you'd encountered at the Registry Office when submitting her application?

[Stuart]

The Refusal Letter Said and I quote!!! "Furthermore I need to be satisfied that it is intended that a marriage in the UK will take place.
The law relating to marriage in England and Wales does not allow for any arrangements to be
made with a Registrar until the foreign national has arrived in the UK. Of itself, a booking at a
Register Office or church is not proof that a marriage will take place.
I would reasonably expect you and your sponsor to have made some tentative plans for the
wedding. No evidence of any kind has been presented. I therefore doubt that a marriage will take
place." *months of conversation was given, I had got divorceds so I could re marry, Travelled to the Phillipines to meet my future wife!!! Purchased and Engagement ring. Asked her father for permission to marry to!!!! Spoke to registry office and was told she needs to be in the uk to make arrangements!!!! :Erm: What does this man want? Lets see his evidence that's made him reach his conclusion!!! :ReadIt: ATM I'm annoyed sorry!!!!:censored: As he ever heard of the expression an English mans word is his bond!!! :Erm:

[Stuart]

Hi Arthur nice to see you again!!! Benefits I claim for is for a single person? yes because I am. :Erm: I get housing benefits to? I'm a sole tenant in a 3 bed house.
The tenancy agreement with the landlords approval letter was also given as evidence, I also get DLA being disabled... High rate care, and Mobility high rate. Both guaranteed to 2014! I think I may need a solicitor? Can some one recommend one?

[Arthur Little]

Reason I'm asking these things is ... because - to me at least :anerikke: - it seems a rather flimsy excuse for refusing an applicant on this basis alone. Especially if you had already explained the situation.

Moreover, the Embassy ought to be long-familiar with such problems by now - given the vast turnover of applicants - otherwise it suggests they're failing to pay proper attention to the respective guidelines. :angry:

[joebloggs]

91.
An applicant whose sponsor is in receipt of any of the following disability-related benefits will be exempt from the financial requirement in respect of that application stage:
•
Disability Living Allowance.
•
Severe Disablement Allowance.
•
Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit.
•
Attendance Allowance.
•
Carer’s Allowance.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/news/soi-fam-mig.pdf

[joebloggs]

93.
The basis for and operation of the new financial requirement will be reviewed in line with the implementation of the Government’s welfare reforms. These include the
21
introduction of Personal Independence Payment from April 2013 and the roll-out of Universal Credit from October 2013. In particular, before April 2013 we will review the treatment under the financial requirement of disabled people and carers, with a view to ensuring that the operation of the financial requirement properly reflects the Government’s welfare reforms. We will announce any changes in due course, but an applicant – sponsored by a person in receipt of a disability-related benefit specified above or Carer’s Allowance – who will be exempt from the new financial requirement from 9 July 2012 cannot expect that they will necessarily remain exempt from April 2013

[Stuart]

The thing that's annoyed me is no-one talked to me. They spoke to my intended wife. I doubt she knows the English Benefits I'm on. But I thought the fact all my bank statement clearly showed my income they should have known what I'm in receipt of and what that meant to my case? Their Judgement is clearly flawed. In my opinion a relationship involves two people. Surely both of them should be talked to before a judgement is made about their future. I find it insulting that he thinks the commitment I've made to my wife is worthless! :NoNo: Thanks for the info!!! It's most helpful. ;)

[joebloggs]

i should have said these are new rules which apply from the 9th of july.

[Stuart]

:Britain: Love the new Emoticons!!!!!!:tea_cup5:

[grahamw48]

Clearly these ECOs are a bunch of tossers who skim through applications, turning them down at the first opportunity.

Nowhere do I see common sense and reasonableness being used.

Yes, you are an Englishman who's word should be trusted, but of course the system has been screwed up by NON-English people who have continually tried to cheat the system, and is largely staffed by NON-English people who have little or no understanding of as a nation, our basic honesty and sense of honour. :angry:

If ALL British people were subjected to this amount of cross-examination, means testing and invasion of privacy when wishing to marry, there would be a bloody revolution !

[Stuart]

grahamw48 . You are so right ! Thanks for your kind words. Nice to see you think like me, and I really hope common sense will prevail!!!! ;)

[malchard888]

When we applied last October like u we supplied no evidence from a registry office that we had even made any tentative enquiries I just stated in my sponsorship letter that we would marry within the 6 month time period allowed and that the wedding would be small and attended by few friends and family and that no hall, photographer or wedding car would be booked as well.. The bottom line is that basically they took my word at face value so it seems that maybe each ECO has a different viewpoint and I got the benefit of the doubt. It is grossly unfair that they do not appear to apply the rules in a consistent manner and can be heartless and cold and dont appreciate the emotional hurt they cause.
I sincerely wish u both some good luck and hope u can get this decision overturned.

[grahamw48]

Good luck to you both.

It's time our government started paying attention to the needs of its own people rather than (in between lining their pockets) setting themselves up as saviours of the world. :NoNo:

[Stuart]

:love2:I've spent from 11.00am to 3.30pm listening to my fiance bawl her eyes out :cwm24: in a public internet cafe! I'm so worried about her! If we had not given the information they asked for we could understand the refusal..... This application was done through an agency that has a 100% pass rate because we don't want to hit the very problems we've hit!!!! Is it wrong to want to wed the person I love and live in my own country? I'm devastated... It took a long time for me to get the money together to go to the Phillipines but i was told that it was a requirement if she wanted to live with me in this country.I was going to marry there but because the new English Tests were sprung on us, we had to move the goal posts, and she had to complete those before she could leave!!!! :Erm: Now all the documents are heading back my way!!!! Because the appeal will be in the uk? This is such a mess!!! :readingpapers: Were sure not giving up!!!! :love2: Im toying with the idea of going back and getting wed over there before the hearing...... I wonder if that would effect their decision!!!! :icon_lol:

[lastlid]

Basically, the ECO decision makers, lack good QA/QC (Quality Assurance / Quality Control) in their procedures. There are ways to improve on consistency and avoid errors of judgement and seemingly they don't use them.

[Stuart]

Basically, the ECO decision makers, lack good QA/QC (Quality Assurance / Quality Control) in their procedures. There are ways to improve on consistency and avoid errors of judgement and seemingly they don't use them.


Sadly I'm learning that! :doh As I'm on limited income my money needs to be used wisely! It should not be used to fight injustice, "common sense" should be standard for "All" Decision makers... It will be interesting to see if I get reimbursed for all many spent whilst correcting their mistakes?... It would pay for a nice honeymoon!!! :icon_lol:

[joebloggs]

the agency should have known about the evidence to show you were getting married :NoNo:

[Stuart]

Just got this from the agency!!!

Dear Stuart,

We are sorry to inform you that your fiancee, Marjorie, was refused her visa application. I believe she has sent you a copy already as I have scanned and emailed it to her yesterday.

In line with this, I told her to appeal it as she has the right to do so. Please be informed that all appeals are submitted and decided in the UK. There are two types of appeal. first is paper base appeal with a fee of 80 pounds whereby the appeal will be decided on papers that you will be submitting as supporting documents. The second option is Oral hearing and the payment is 140 pounds to be deducted in your account or payment card which details you will provide on the appeal form. The tribunal will set a date for hearing which either you or your representative can represent during the scheduled hearing.

For your information should you be interested to appeal, you should submit it at the Tribunal Office, UK before 28 days will be due so Marjorie's appeal should be received by Tribunal Office on or before July 16, 2012.

If you will not appeal, it means you are no longer interested to proceed with you aplication.

In appealing, all details questioned should be justified to convince the Judge who will evaluate it so he will grant the visa. Appeals are like a case where you should fight for your case to to win or get the result you want.

In your case where you receive benefits, nobody wants to be in the situation you are in so you have the freedom to enjoy life the way you wanted it and it should not be a hindrance to pursue your goal to be married with Marjorie. For the evidences of tentative plans being asked by the consul who evaluated the visa application of Marjorie, we can state that how can you plan ahead for your wedding while the first step if for your foreign national to be in UK to start the process or planning so there is no such evidence to show even booking a venue because first thing to do is to book the marriage to knoww the exact date of your marriage.

Anyway, you decide which option you want your appeal to be decided and let us know if we will assist you with the process.

For your information. Let me know if you have any concern on the above matter


SO EXPERTS!!! :Help1: .... WHATS THE BEST BET???? :rolleyes:

[grahamw48]

Is that a Philippines-based agency ?

If so, my advice would be to dump them before you waste any more money....no offence intended.

Next step will be to appeal.

This is going to be a British court deciding your future, so you require British expertise.

I can't personally offer advice related to your particular case, but I'm sure others on the forum can, that will probably be superior to the guidance you've so far being paying for.

[raynaputi]

I agree with Graham. There are members of the forum doing the appeals themselves and not wasting any money with the use of an agency. Also, send a reconsideration letter to the ECM regarding the refusal at the same time doing the appeal.

[smileyangel]

Hi Stuart! sorry to hear about your fiancée visa refusal. I just granted a fiancée visa this June and woudl just like to share with you what we supplied them to satisfy the ECO that we intend to marry as soon as I arrived in the UK.
1.) YM Chats - which I highlighted for quick reference for the ECO, I printed out the chats when we are discussing and planning for the wedding like when, how, where etc.
2.) Email copy of my Fiancé inquiry about booking a ceremony and the Registration office reply.
3.) Fortunately the Registration can provide us PROVISIONAL CEREMONY BOOKING at £25 Fee. We actually have to rebooked it since the first one was outdated already.
4.) Photograph of our Engagement Ring that I posted on my FB account with our friends comments so that the ECO would also see that we are happy to announced that we are engaged already.
5.) Original copy of our Engagement Receipt, I also include the calling card of the Manager where he bought the ring.

We did not even have quotes for cakes, venues, invitation cards etc. So I don't understand what is their main criteria for the applicants to prove that a marriage will take place in UK. Anyway, I hope they overturned the decision. Goodluck!:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[smileyangel]

It is grossly unfair that they do not appear to apply the rules in a consistent manner and can be heartless and cold and dont appreciate the emotional hurt they cause.
I sincerely wish u both some good luck and hope u can get this decision overturned.
I totally agree with you malchard :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Stuart]

There are two types of appeal. first is paper base appeal with a fee of 80 pounds whereby the appeal will be decided on papers that you will be submitting as supporting documents. The second option is Oral hearing and the payment is 140 pounds to be deducted in your account or payment card which details you will provide on the appeal form. The tribunal will set a date for hearing which either you or your representative can represent during the scheduled hearing.


Out of these two choices I really need to know which is most likely to bring the result we both need!!!!! Oral hearing or Paper hearing all of this is new to me? But I am quite a good speaker.... I have no idea what is best??? :readingpapers: I need to give an answer by 11pm Wednesday!!! :Help1:

[joebloggs]

Oral hearing :xxgrinning--00xx3:
you get to put your side of the case across in front of the judge, more chance of being successful.

[maya12]

hi, i appealed last 2010 for the refusal of my tourist visa, after patiently waiting for 8long months i gt the result positive. i fill up the form myself but i didnt pay for anything...

Is there any diffirence if you appeal for visit visa to fiance visa????

[Terpe]

Oral hearing :xxgrinning--00xx3:
you get to put your side of the case across in front of the judge, more chance of being successful.

Yes Stuart, I fully agree with Joe. Oral hearing is so much better.
Your opportunity to put your case and to SAY your side to the Judge.

You will find these "appeal hearings" much more informal that the usual court cases.

[Arthur Little]

I am quite a good speaker....

... all the more reason why :iagree: on going for the Oral. But, in the meantime, it would be worth clinging to the possibility that common logic will prevail :rolleyes: and the decision on Marjorie's visa overturned before things reach that stage. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Stuart]

That's Fantastic, Just what I thought!!!! This really is a great forum I can't thank you all enough. :xxgrinning--00xx3: I'm so looking forward to seeing my lady step off the plane!!!! Best start typing letters I think!!!! I'll keep u all posted!!!!! :Wave:

[grahamw48]

Good luck Stuart . :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

I'll keep u all posted!!!!! :Wave:

Please DO ... and all the very best, Stuart. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Stuart]

The decision to refuse your application does attract the right of appeal and the correct course of action, should you wish to exercise this right, should be to formally lodge an appeal. The appeal documents would have been included in the paperwork which was returned to you, following the processing of your application. These papers explain the process of lodging an appeal. You may visit this link for more information on how to submit an appeal - http://www.justice.gov.uk/tribunals/immigration-asylum/appeals

If you do not wish to exercise your appeal rights, you are, of course, free to reapply for an entry clearance at any stage. Whilst we cannot guarantee that any application would be successful, we can confirm that it would be treated on its individual merits. We would strongly recommend that, if you choose to reapply, that you address the concerns raised within the refusal notice and any additional evidence/explanations can be provided with the fresh application.

:Erm: But that would mean spending more right? We are not submitting more info we are asking for a reconsideration of existing evidence!
Advise Please!!!

[joebloggs]

have you sent a letter of reconsideration to the ECO manager ? from the title of your post it looks like you have, if so looks like they stand by the refusal and you'll have to reapply or go to appeal.

[Stuart]

I have contacted the appeals team in Leicester today, just to find out if there is any news about the appeal? Ive now been told that the paperwork is being sent back to Manila with the request they reconsider..... :Erm: Now we have asked the team in Manila to do this and they said they could not do this! It has to go to appeal.... :NoNo: So it strikes me odd they have been asked to do what they have told me they can't :crazy: Now we've paid for the appeal already... When this come back do we need to pay again? The people in Leicester has told the English Law's apply to the people in the Phillipines ? As sponsor I'm disabled and exempt from fee's but this appeal is about my wife who is not exempt. I'm now confused because I'm being told as just a sponsor I have no rights? So its been suggested she right a letter to her non legal representative? I could then request expert legal help under legal aid.... Does this make sense to any of you? I feel its just delay delay delay all the time!!! :Help1:

Stu! :Cuckoo: