What to do if Fiance visa is not approved??

[yellowcloud]

Dont want to sound pessimistic but if my Fiances Fiance Visa is not approved, what is the first thing I should do?

If I appeal, how do I do it? if they refuse her visa they will give her the passport back along with all the original documents, then does my Fiance have to send me all the original documents back to me and I have the solictor fill in the appeal form and then send the original documents along with the appeal form to the court house?

Some people keep saying to me "ohh just wait to find out first" but I want to atleast have an idea what I need to do now as I know I would Panic if she is refused but if I know what I need to do now then I wont be panicing (as much:yikes:)

Hope someone can help,

Bless you all!!!

[bigmarco]

I'm sure it would depend on the reason behind the refusal. We submitted a letter to the Entry clearance manager requesting reconsideration as we felt that our application had not been read properly. Unfortunately it did no good but it does no harm in trying.
They do return the original documents and passport to you and its up to you to the complete the appeal and make sure its submitted in time to HMCTS within the 28 days.
If I remember the last person on the forum to start planning his appeal before getting the result actually had the visa granted. Lets hope you get the same result :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[yellowcloud]

I'm sure it would depend on the reason behind the refusal. We submitted a letter to the Entry clearance manager requesting reconsideration as we felt that our application had not been read properly. Unfortunately it did no good but it does no harm in trying.
They do return the original documents and passport to you and its up to you to the complete the appeal and make sure its submitted in time to HMCTS within the 28 days.
If I remember the last person on the forum to start planning his appeal before getting the result actually had the visa granted. Lets hope you get the same result

Thanks!! OK so if its refused we will submit a letter to the Entry Clearance Manager, then we will get the passport back with all the documents. We then complete the appeal form to HMCTS. I am confused as I read that its 28 days out of country and 8-10s in country?? Would I submit it here in the UK or would she submit it over there?

So we then submit the appeal form, but do we submit it with the original documents or keep the original documents until the court date?

I also wondered, on the application form we have a reservation booked for the wedding but if we find a better place to get married like in a Church does that matter if we change the place and date we get married to what we have said in the application form?

[yellowcloud]

I wondered, when we applied for the Fiance Visa we provided proof we were going to get married at a registry office as we have one booked. However, we really wanted to get married in a Church but have had trouble finding a Church but since the application we have found a church that would be willing to marry us. BUT we are worried if we cancel the registry office reservation and get married in a Church instead when my Fiance applies for her FLR if they will reject it and say "ohh on your original application form you said you were getting married at this registry office BUT you got married on a different date and in a Church instead!!!"

Also we have been offered to stay with my parents until we have our own place which is what we have said on the application form which we plan to do. But what if I find another property and we move in before she applies for her FLR. Would they reject the FLR and say "Ohhh and I see you said in the Fiance Visa application form you were going to live with your Fiances parents with him, BUT you are now living in your own property with your Fiance and he is claiming housing benefit also!"

[joebloggs]

yellowcloud your thinking too much about UKBA finding reasons to refuse your visa, you'll go :Cuckoo:

i wouldn't cancel the reg office until she has her visa incase they check, but once you get your visa you can do what you like as long as you marry b4 her visa expires.

same with living with your parents, dont do or change anything til you get your visa, then you can do what you like, where your living will not effect her getting FLR as long as its not over crowded.

[yellowcloud]

Yes, probably I just feel like I really dont trust them and they are always looking for thesmallest thing to cause problems.

That awnser is helpful though.


same with living with your parents, dont do or change anything til you get your visa, then you can do what you like, where your living will not effect her getting FLR as long as its not over crowded.

No I will not move out or anything like that until we get the visa. I just hope that we dont have to appeal and I will be stuck living with my parents for like another year!!! :omg:

[yellowcloud]

I used a 5 Year Cash Fixed ISA in My Own name to prove the Maintenance requirement for my Fiance in her Visa. Is that OK? Or would it be rejected by the ECO because it is a Cash ISA? To withdraw money I just write to them and I get the money in about 5 days or something like that?

[joebloggs]

you really need instant access to the money.

[Bluebirdjones]

Joe...I agree with you as per the official terms of "savings" on the official notes/explanations.... but I certainly didn't comply with it.

My current account is always on the "low" side, and I had no intention of messing up my financal arrangements........

I wrote a covering letter with our fiance application, explaining the illogical sense of cashing in all my shares, funds, bonds etc to "provide" cash in a current account.

I further went on explain that to turn everything into "ready" cash made no sense, as I viewed my financial arrangements as being conservative and totally adequate and showed an appreciation of full financial management of my affairs, and a view to future income and planning.

I also offered to turn one or two long-term investments into cash if they so stipulated, and would they be so kind as to indicate which ones would suffice for their purposes of approving the fiance visa.

I also included quarterly bank, stockbroker and trustee valuation statements for a 18mnth period.

I never heard back from them ..... just the successful granting of the fiance visa.


Obviously all cases are different ...... but it does disprove the argument that "cash is king".
There is always an alternative. You just need to present your evidence correctly and fully documented.

[lastlid]

Joe...I agree with you as per the official terms of "savings" on the official notes/explanations.... but I certainly didn't comply with it.

My current account is always on the "low" side, and I had no intention of messing up my financal arrangements........

I wrote a covering letter with our fiance application, explaining the illogical sense of cashing in all my shares, funds, bonds etc to "provide" cash in a current account.

I further went on explain that to turn everything into "ready" cash made no sense, as I viewed my financial arrangements as being conservative and totally adequate and showed an appreciation of full financial management of my affairs, and a view to future income and planning.

I also offered to turn one or two long-term investments into cash if they so stipulated, and would they be so kind as to indicate which ones would suffice for their purposes of approving the fiance visa.

I also included quarterly bank, stockbroker and trustee valuation statements for a 18mnth period.

I never heard back from them ..... just the successful granting of the fiance visa.


Obviously all cases are different ...... but it does disprove the argument that "cash is king".
There is always an alternative. You just need to present your evidence correctly and fully documented.

Interesting post and one that might also help someone like Iani in his posting yesterday. Good example of thinking "outside the box".

[Terpe]

..........There is always an alternative. You just need to present your evidence correctly and fully documented.............

Totally agree :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

Interesting post and one that might also help someone like Iani in his posting yesterday. Good example of thinking "outside the box".

The only problem I might have with this kind of approach is having the "balls" to go through with it. if you see what I mean. I thoroughly agree with all the points made there in post 9 but one might well be "bricking it" throughout the duration of the application decision process.

[Terpe]

The only problem I might have with this kind of approach is having the "balls" to go through with it. if you see what I mean. I thoroughly agree with all the points made there in post 9 but one might well be "bricking it" throughout the duration of the application decision process.

Yes and no. Currently there is no requirement (rule) about savings.
The key is have a regular amount of income for non-discretional expenditure based on income support levels.

The new financial rules also do not stipulate savings, only gross income.

[Bluebirdjones]

Point taken .... but their simplistic approach to "cash" is utter bollox.

If you are planning for the future (be it, with or without a partner), to be able to support yourself without recourse to the welface state, then the idea that you'd hold all your assets in ready cash is utterly ludicrous.

I merely pointed this out to them in a "nice" way.

[joebloggs]

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/citizens-settled/spouse-cp/documents/maintenance/

You must provide evidence that maintenance is available in the form of cash funds. Other accounts or financial instruments (such as shares, bonds and pension funds) are not acceptable, regardless of the notice period.

bluebirdjones you were probably working and you had evidence of savings, thou not instant access to, but they took that into consideration..

[yellowcloud]

So not looking good for my application in terms of my Chas ISA.

Is there a particular amount for the FIance Visa I need to have in terms of cash or a certain amount of weeks at a certain amount?

Guess I could still appeal it though if it is rejected?

[Terpe]

So not looking good for my application in terms of my Chas ISA.

Is there a particular amount for the FIance Visa I need to have in terms of cash or a certain amount of weeks at a certain amount?

Guess I could still appeal it though if it is rejected?


Yes and no. Currently there is no requirement (rule) about savings.
The key is have a regular amount of income for non-discretional expenditure based on income support levels.

The new financial rules also do not stipulate savings, only gross income.



Current income support level is £111.45 per week

So your qualifying (discretional income) will be Net Income minus rent/mortgage, council tax and any loan repayments from your income
For a couple with no children you need to have £111.45 left per week to satisfy the adequate maintenance requirement.

If you have more than more than £111.45 left per week (that is £482.95 per month = £111.45 x52 divide by 12), then you will fulfil the requirement.

Having said that, it's not unreasonable for the ECO to expect to see around £1500 as available savings in order to support air ticket costs to UK and out-of pocket settle-in expenses. But that's not a stipulated requirement.

[lastlid]

Point taken .... but their simplistic approach to "cash" is utter bollox.

If you are planning for the future (be it, with or without a partner), to be able to support yourself without recourse to the welface state, then the idea that you'd hold all your assets in ready cash is utterly ludicrous.

I merely pointed this out to them in a "nice" way.

I agree with this. It is daft to ignore such assets. If one can get cash from an ISA in 5 days it is more liquid than a pay packet at the end of the month. And what if one lost ones job....

[yellowcloud]

I am worried we didn't meet the maintenance requirement but I am not too sure my legal representations got it correct, here is what my lawyer has put in their letter and what it says in terms of the Maintenance, I am trying to figure out if this is acceptable or not?

Paragraph (iv) Adequate Accommodation and maintenance until the date of the marriage

Our client will live with her partner at his parents home until the marriage in September. The house is a four bedroomed property and there is at least one bedroom which our client and her partner will be able to occupy exclusively. A letter is provided from the parents of xxxxxxxxxx (see page 74) and the evidence of their ownership of the property (page 75-80). Our client also relies on a property inspection report from xxxxxxxxxx Council who inspected the property and confirmed that based on the number of occupants intending to live there the property will not be overcrowded (pages 75-80). This is confirmed by the Entry Clearance Guidance at MMA14 of the Entry Clearance Guidance.

Adequate maintenance until the date of the marriage is available from both the applicant and her partner. Our client’s current bank statement account number xxxxxxxx indicates funds of £1,257.

In addition our client relies on the funds available to her sponsor who is able to support her before their marriage. Our clients sponsors bank statement shows a balance of £3914.56 as of 14 May 2012. At the present rate of income support which is £111.45 per week for a couple our client and her partner have sufficient means to be supported without recourse to public funds for 46 weeks. In addition to this he has a balance of £3915.61 in his Cash ISA which indicates that our client can be supported for a total period of 81 weeks without recourse to other means of income (pages 50-63).

Our clients partner is currently in receipt of contributions based Employment Support Allowance as he is presently unfit for work. He has provided evidence of his benefit and evidence of his medical conditions which evidence the reason for receipt of this benefit. The benefit is not a public fund for the purposes of the Immigration Rules under S 6 and therefore reliance on this benefit is permissible and can not lead to a refusal of leave to enter. The current rate of benefit payable to xxxxxxxxxxx is £105 per week which taken together which his current savings indicates clearly indicates that he is able to support our client without additional recourse to public funds both before and after the marriage (pages 45-49).

Our clients partner also holds shares to the value of £1432.34 which would provide an additional source of income should it be required (pages 66-68)

[lastlid]

Interesting. Turning it on its head. I wonder if one had shares and ISA's and were claiming unemployment benefit, if the government would take those into account...:Erm:

Or would it again be a case of them wanting it both ways.

Maybe another one for your sh1tlist to Chris Row, yellow cloud.

[Terpe]

I think they probably did as much as they could do and at least presented the facts as strongly as possible.

To be honest, it's a little marginal. Really depends on the "judgement" of the ECO and how much they will be influenced by the presented info .

I've seen less in terms of the number of weeks available funding that has been accepted.

I really do hope it swings your way

[yellowcloud]

Thanks, guys. So do you think that I meet the maintenance requirement from what my lawyer has said?

[lastlid]

Thanks, guys. So do you think that I meet the maintenance requirement from what my lawyer has said?

What did your lawyer say. Did he think you do?

[lastlid]

Good luck yellow cloud. Let us know how you get on.....:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[yellowcloud]

My Lawyer said about the maintence, I am not sure to be honest. I just presumed they thought I did because they wrote all of that in the letter of representation??:doh

But thinking about it now, I am wondering if we actually do meet the maintence requirement and cant quite figure out if we do or not.


For a couple with no children you need to have £111.45 left per week to satisfy the adequate maintenance requirement.

If you have more than more than £111.45 left per week (that is £482.95 per month = £111.45 x52 divide by 12), then you will fulfil the requirement.

But what Terpe said above I get £105 per week COntribution based ESA and have a balance of £3914.56 in a current account? Does that mean I meet the maintence requirement?

[Terpe]

Thanks, guys. So do you think that I meet the maintenance requirement from what my lawyer has said?

As I mentioned, I think it's marginal enough for the ECO to really scrutinise the numbers.
Just how the funding will actually be evaluated and which way the ECO might move is impossible to predict.

For what it's worth, if I were the ECO, given the outline budget and given the current timing and given the fact it's a finacee visa, given also that third party sponsorship is considered under "old" rules then I would give benefit of the doubt and grant the visa. But just how many ECO's out of 10 would go the same way...... I can't guess.

How confident were your advisors they could swing it your way?
They surely must have given you positive vibe?

[yellowcloud]

How confident were your advisors they could swing it your way?

They said that it is a strong application and it would be difficult for the ECO to reject it.

But I just trusted what they said as it was too much for me to really get my head around and just now have had the time to learn about it all and was trying to see if I did actually meet the maintence requirement or not. I thought there was a set amount of weeks at a certain amount of money you had to have etc which I could compare it with so I would know for certain "YES" I do meet the maintenance requirement.

If it is rejected because of the maintenance requirement could I appeal and possibly be successful in arguing that I meet the maintenance requirement?

[lastlid]

They said that it is a strong application and it would be difficult for the ECO to reject it.

But I just trusted what they said as it was too much for me to really get my head around and just now have had the time to learn about it all and was trying to see if I did actually meet the maintence requirement or not. I thought there was a set amount of weeks at a certain amount of money you had to have etc which I could compare it with so I would know for certain "YES" I do meet the maintenance requirement.

If it is rejected because of the maintenance requirement could I appeal and possibly be successful in arguing that I meet the maintenance requirement?

"Strong" is a strong word. If they were doubtful then I would hope that they wouldn't have used the word "strong".....

[yellowcloud]

This is what my Lawyer said about my savings


I think your shares can be disregarded as they are not necessarily accessible unless and until they are sold.
The savings are fine in my view but you may need to show the terms of withdrawal from the ISA should it be needed. Five days would be ok for notice of withdrawal as its not lengthy and should be considered as accessible funds.


I can see no reason why (if all evidence is provided) that the matter will not be successful, even in light of previous refusals.

[Terpe]

They said that it is a strong application and it would be difficult for the ECO to reject it.....



It's true that the ECO will judge the application as a whole, and generally not refuse on just one marginal area.
But the financial test is a key factor and your application in regard to that is highly marginal.


...I thought there was a set amount of weeks at a certain amount of money you had to have etc which I could compare it with so I would know for certain "YES" I do meet the maintenance requirement...



In principle if it is more likely than not that the total amount of money that the applicant and sponsor will have to live on will be below what the income support level would be for a British family of that size, then it may be appropriate to refuse the application on maintenance and accommodation grounds.
Technically the ECO will look to see that you can cover your living expenses without recourse to public funds in the UK for 27 months, if you are applying from outside the UK (24 months from within the UK).
That's more than the 81 weeks indicated in the letter.


...

If it is rejected because of the maintenance requirement could I appeal and possibly be successful in arguing that I meet the maintenance requirement?



I very much doubt you would be successful. In fact it is the Immigration Tribunal's (courts) that have concluded it would not be appropriate to have immigrant families existing on resources that were less than the 'Income Support Level' for a British family of the same size.

Sorry yellowcloud, not trying to be negative, hurtful or offensive. Just putting the facts as honestly as I can in answer to your concerns.

I do really hope the ECO looks kindly on the application.

[yellowcloud]

I very much doubt you would be successful. In fact it is the Immigration Tribunal's (courts) that have concluded it would not be appropriate to have immigrant families existing on resources that were less than the 'Income Support Level' for a British family of the same size.

Sorry yellowcloud, not trying to be negative, hurtful or offensive. Just putting the facts as honestly as I can in answer to your concerns.

Thanks for taking the time to awnser that. Need to face the facts that I have almost no chance to get the visa.

If we did appeal we couldn't get new evidence could we? Like if my parents offered financial support on appeal we couldn't submit that could we as it wasn't in the original application?

Have you ever known anyone with less than what I have in terms of Maintenance who has been approved for a visa?

[Terpe]

Strictly speaking new evidence should not be presented, but plenty of folks do and get away with it too.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

I have not personally known anyone in recent times to have made application unless they met the financial requirement in some way or other.
As I said, your case is marginal it could easily go either way.
Strictly to the "letter of the law" it's non compliant.

[yellowcloud]

Thanks again,

So annoying that my Lawyer said we met the financial requirement when we didn't and said we should be stressful, I just don't know why she said we met the financial requirement when we didn't :(

I thought there had been others on here who were on Benefits who had less in savings than me who were successful? no?

[yellowcloud]

I very much doubt you would be successful. In fact it is the Immigration Tribunal's (courts) that have concluded it would not be appropriate to have immigrant families existing on resources that were less than the 'Income Support Level' for a British family of the same size.

How about on Human rights grounds on that issue?

[yellowcloud]

Thanks for the replies, very helpful.

So I do or I don't meet the maintenance requirement? If I dont, please could you explain how I dont? Really appreciate it!!!


I've seen less in terms of the number of weeks available funding that has been accepted.

Terpe? Really you have seen less in terms of the number of weeks available funding that has been accepted? Wow well thats very reassuring :)

[gWaPito]

Yes and no. Currently there is no requirement (rule) about savings.
The key is have a regular amount of income for non-discretional expenditure based on income support levels.

The new financial rules also do not stipulate savings, only gross income.

Its as simple as that...no point in having a shed load of savings coupled with outgoings out stripping your incoming.

[Terpe]

Its as simple as that...no point in having a shed load of savings coupled with outgoings out stripping your incoming.

Well except that under the new rules, UKBA will accept any shortfall in income from the savings you have above £16000

Here's what UKBA say about that.


The amount of cash savings above £16,000 can be counted against any shortfall against the £18,600 income threshold (or the relevant higher figure where a child or children are also being sponsored). This will be done on a basis that either multiplies the amount of the shortfall by 2.5 – the probationary period (30 months or 2.5 years) to be served before the applicant has to apply for further limited leave or for indefinite leave to remain – or, at the indefinite leave to remain stage, is equal to the amount of the shortfall.
For example, where the sponsor and applicant have no income which may be counted towards the financial requirement, £62,500 in cash savings will be required for the financial requirement to be met at the entry clearance/leave to remain stage or at the further leave stage, i.e. the ‘floor’ amount of £16,000, plus 2.5 times the shortfall of £18,600. At the indefinite leave to remain stage, the same couple will require £34,600 in cash savings to meet the financial requirement by that means alone, i.e. the ‘floor’ amount of £16,000, plus the shortfall of £18,600

I'm not sure just how many folks would be taking advantage of that :NoNo:

Now who said money can't buy happiness :D

[joebloggs]

So not looking good for my application in terms of my Chas ISA.

Is there a particular amount for the FIance Visa I need to have in terms of cash or a certain amount of weeks at a certain amount?

Guess I could still appeal it though if it is rejected?

some people who were on benefits and had no savings managed to get a visa, thou there could be a higher risk of refusal than if you was working and had savings.

[yellowcloud]

some people who were on benefits and had no savings managed to get a visa

Really??? No way!! that makes me realize that my Fiance could still get her visa! ANyone ione on here? I would love to read about them :)

Can you still appeal if they failed me on the maintenance requirement, terpe was saying if they fail me on the maintenance then it would be very unlikely I would win it on appeal?

[gWaPito]

Well except that under the new rules, UKBA will accept any shortfall in income from the savings you have above £16000

Here's what UKBA say about that.



I'm not sure just how many folks would be taking advantage of that :NoNo:

Now who said money can't buy happiness :D
I would imagine many will, Terpe...desperate times requires desperate measures.

I, for one can think of a couple of ways to gain short term savings....take some equity out your house or even borrow from family.

[yellowcloud]

In relation to submitting new evidence on appeal


An ECM or Immigration Judge is entitled to look at circumstances / evidence after the date of decision only if they relate to circumstances before or at the time of decision.

There is a distinction to be made between new evidence and additional evidence.

New evidence: New evidence which postdates the decision cannot be considered by the ECM. This evidence should be acknowledged in the Review and the ECM should indicate that this should be used to support a fresh application.

[joebloggs]

because people use to submit new evidence to the appeal court that they didn't send with original app, if they had sent it they would have probably been granted the visa in the first instance.that's what :censored: the gov off because judges were ruling in favor of the applicant because of the new evidence.

[lastlid]

In relation to submitting new evidence on appeal

It sounds like your case is marginal, from what's being said. Be prepared for it to go either way. May well depend on which ECO you get and the mood they are in that day...

[lastlid]

Having said that, check out this interesting post. The sponsor is / was a student on benefits. The application was successful. Have a snop around the forum, as there are a few examples of some who have successfully applied and have been on benefits / low income.

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/38347-Our-Fiancee-Visa-Checklist?highlight=brian+noreen

[yellowcloud]

Having said that, check out this interesting post. The sponsor is / was a student on benefits. The application was successful. Have a snop around the forum, as there are a few examples of some who have successfully applied and have been on benefits / low income.


Wow thanks for that. But it looks like he had 3rd party support :( Which I didn't have :( I have been looking around for someone who had less finances that me and who was on benefits on the forum who was successful to give me hope, let me know if anyone knows one.

It doesn't look like there is a set amount of finances for someone to have and its just done on merit and how the ECO is feeling on the day.