The Catholic Bishops Conference say they have got the RH Bill sewn up - depressing...

[CBM]

Inquirer, today...

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/240375/showdown-on-rh-bill-up

The only properly organised political party in the Philippines is the Catholic Bishops Conference.

In the past, much of the planet was ruled by the priests; now only the Philippines and the Vatican City (age of consent - 12) remain under the thumb of the men in frocks.

But the Filipinos are still drugged by the opiate of the masses.

[lastlid]

The future of the Philippines rests on this bill...

[Doc Alan]

Depressing indeed :doh. The description of the RH Bill at one point in your link as “ responsible health bill “ was inadvertent, but accurate ! “ Family planning “ may no longer be “ fashionable “ with implied coercive population control. Whatever it’s called, the fact is we’re dealing with health of mums and kids (http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/39689-Health-of-mums-and-kids-Philippines-and-UK ). In countries like the Philippines where big families are the norm, many parents say they want fewer children. Direct health benefits are clear – if a woman conceives within 18 months of childbirth, chances of miscarriage, still birth, low birth weight, and poor infant health are increased. “ Family planning “ is also cost-effective – modern contraception saves in maternal and newborn healthcare. Lack of it holds back countries like the Philippines. There are large numbers of dependents, and the country misses out on the “ demographic dividend “ of increase in working-age adults, with fewer children. Where I have difficulty is in defending, or understanding, the alternative viewpoint – that the RH Bill should be blocked.

[CBM]

Why is the CBCP so powerful?

History offers a clue.

The Spanish colonial system differed from the British system which the Americans imitated and sought to improve in the Philippines. The Spanish system had the Church at the forefront of colonial rule, whilst the British really cared very little about the religion of their colonial subjects - a point remarked on by, amongst others, the Sultan of Sulu (Moslem) and Diego Silang (Catholic). With Spanish rule, the Church was an integral part of the system of governance - Spain did not have District Officers, it did not need them; it had friars.

Now, in the Spanish colonies in the Americas, the overthrow of colonial Spain meant the overthrow of the temporal powers of the Church, and usually a period of strong anticlericalism.

But the Philippines revolted and got - the Americans, who took a "British" view of religion, and left the Catholic Church alone. Birshop Brent, the American colonisers' first Bishop of the Philippines, expressly stated that he "did not want a battle of the altars", discouraged Episcopal proselytisation of Catholics and instead set about converting the hill peoples, whom the Catholic Church could not be bothered with for the previous three hundred years (they were not worth taxing...)

(So the hill tribes are Episcopalian to this day; and proponents of the RH Bill have visited the mountain provinces and discovered that, yes, thanks to the devolved powers of local government, they have contraception and sex education and yes, they like it very much! But thatarguent cuts no ice with the Catholic Bishops, of course)

The upshot was that the Catholic Church in the Philippines was left in an uniquely strong position - it preserved its prvileges and powers, and the anticlericalism of Rizal was forgotten.

And here we are today - the Philippines is a colony of the Catholic Church.

[lastlid]

And here we are today - the Philippines is a colony of the Catholic Church.

Nicely put.

[lastlid]

A bit off topic but why is it that Spanish isn't the dominant language in the Philippines (instead of Visayan and Tagalog) ? Like in say for example Cuba.

[CBM]

It's usually put down to Spanish being replaced as the official language by English, during the period of American rule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language_in_the_Philippines

[gWaPito]

My Filipino wife conceived 3 months after childbirth...when our 2nd son was born he was neither underweight or had any of the other defects stated...:NoNo:....perhaps I may of missed something again :doh

If the parents seriously dont want anymore babies they are certainly not obliged to...there's always the withdrawal method..ok, its not 100% but then what is...also you can also chose to have sex at certain times of the month...all without taking aids to offend the church....its as simple as that.

Me thinks the goverment is passing the buck when in fact the goverment should be ploughing money into sex education etc

The poor church is being made a scapegoat

[Doc Alan]

gWaPito – you welcomed me when I first joined the forum and have kindly supported my posts ever since :). As you know I’m happy that things have worked out so well for you and your family. In the UK we expect high standards of health care with our NHS, even if they’re not always reached. I wish you all the best for your future :).
You haven’t necessarily missed anything. I know you appreciated #1 of my thread (
http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/39689-Health-of-mums-and-kids-Philippines-and-UK
) although maybe you haven’t had a chance to read my next few posts ( #5, #14. and #17 ).
Ideally, every person should have the right and an equitable opportunity to live a healthy, productive, and fulfilling life. Unfortunately the Philippines does not compare well with other south-east Asian countries, and certainly not the UK, when it comes to health of mums and kids, let alone other measures of health.
Methods of family planning should be available for all women who would like to use them. It contributes to improving health of mums and kids; allows women to take part more in economic productivity; and helps families invest more in education of their children. Family planning also slows high levels of population growth, improves overall health, and reduces poverty and hunger.
It’s about listening to what parents want, not dictating what they should do, helping women and their partners to decide freely when and how many children they want to have. “ Natural family planning “ may be acceptable to all faiths and cultures, but has disadvantages ( in reality only 75% effective, requires commitment from both members of a couple, doesn’t protect against sexually transmitted infections ). “ Withdrawal “ ( coitus interruptus ) has similar disadvantages.
It’s a shame threads on this topic have also “ multiplied / reproduced “ and not been merged. I’ve given time already to it – as have other members - and tried to avoid politics / religion wherever possible. This is not least because there are MANY aspects to improving health of this important group of people.

[CBM]

GwaPiTo, it's the Church that has been firmly against sex education in schools.

The RH Bill proposes to introduce it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproductive_Health_Bill

and the Church opposes it.

Incidentally, whilst I am the first to agree that the Church does a lot of good work, and I would particularly like to commend the Salesians,

http://www.donboscomanila.edu.ph/links.html

but I am not sure about the "poor" Church... as in France before 1789, the Church is not taxed on its investments. I'm obliged to a Filipino friend for this link to a Philippines web site:

http://www.pinoymoneytalk.com/church-philippines-rich-wealth-stocks/

[lastlid]

I think it is simple. Stop the rapidly expanding population growth by what is the normal means in other countries, or continue to struggle as a nation. It needs government intervention and some backing off by the church.

[CBM]

lastlid is absolutely right.

Here is the World Bank table of live births per 1,000 citizens:

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.CBRT.IN

It repays study.

Looking at Catholic countries, we find (number of live births per 1,000 for 2010):

Argentina: 17
Austria: 9
Belgium: 12
Brazil: 15
France: 13
Chile: 14
Ireland:17
Italy: 9
Portugal:10
Spain: 11

Philippines: 25

All the other countries in the list are most definitely Catholic, and they all have something similar to the RH Bill on their statute books.

I've already posted statistics which show that the Philippines has a much higher rate of teenage pregnancy and of abortion than the UK has.

Why does the Catholic Church think that its Filipino members ought to be denied the freedom of choice available to Catholics in almost all other countries?

[lastlid]

Why does the Catholic Church think that its Filipino members ought to be denied the freedom of choice available to Catholics in almost all other countries?

Very profound statement.

[gWaPito]

gWaPito – you welcomed me when I first joined the forum and have kindly supported my posts ever since :). As you know I’m happy that things have worked out so well for you and your family. In the UK we expect high standards of health care with our NHS, even if they’re not always reached. I wish you all the best for your future :).
You haven’t necessarily missed anything. I know you appreciated #1 of my thread (
http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/39689-Health-of-mums-and-kids-Philippines-and-UK
) although maybe you haven’t had a chance to read my next few posts ( #5, #14. and #17 ).
Ideally, every person should have the right and an equitable opportunity to live a healthy, productive, and fulfilling life. Unfortunately the Philippines does not compare well with other south-east Asian countries, and certainly not the UK, when it comes to health of mums and kids, let alone other measures of health.
Methods of family planning should be available for all women who would like to use them. It contributes to improving health of mums and kids; allows women to take part more in economic productivity; and helps families invest more in education of their children. Family planning also slows high levels of population growth, improves overall health, and reduces poverty and hunger.
It’s about listening to what parents want, not dictating what they should do, helping women and their partners to decide freely when and how many children they want to have. “ Natural family planning “ may be acceptable to all faiths and cultures, but has disadvantages ( in reality only 75% effective, requires commitment from both members of a couple, doesn’t protect against sexually transmitted infections ). “ Withdrawal “ ( coitus interruptus ) has similar disadvantages.
It’s a shame threads on this topic have also “ multiplied / reproduced “ and not been merged. I’ve given time already to it – as have other members - and tried to avoid politics / religion wherever possible. This is not least because there are MANY aspects to improving health of this important group of people.
Thank you Doc Alan for explaining :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Equally, thanks to CBM and lastlid...as most of you know all my posts are on the hoof :NoNo:
Im trying to do the contributions I reply to , justice...:)...im trying to get of both worlds.

[CBM]

Opponents of the RH Bill sometimes say that the birth rate is high because the Philippines is poor, and when he country gets richer, the birth rate will fall (in the absence of contraception, this will presumably because the television will get better?)

Here are some numbers for GDP per head in US$ and live births per 1,000:

Philippines: 4,073................. 25

Malaysia: 15,568................20

Vietnam: 3,359................17

Thailand: 9,396................12

Cambodia 2,216................22

Indonesia 4,666................18

China 8,0000..............12

Singapore 59,000..............9

[lastlid]

Opponents of the RH Bill sometimes say that the birth rate is high because the Philippines is poor, and when he country gets richer, the birth rate will fall (in the absence of contraception, this will presumably because the television will get better?)

Here are some numbers for GDP per head in US$ and live births per 1,000:

Philippines: 4,073................. 25

Malaysia: 15,568................20

Vietnam: 3,359................17

Thailand: 9,396................12

Cambodia 2,216................22

Indonesia 4,666................18

China 8,0000..............12

Singapore 59,000..............9

:icon_lol: Well, yeah, but it won't get less poor till it reigns back on the birth rate.

[CBM]

Thank you Doc Alan for explaining :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Equally, thanks to CBM and lastlid...as most of you know all my posts are on the hoof :NoNo:
Im trying to do the contributions I reply to , justice...:)...im trying to get of both worlds.

Thanks!

[CBM]

:icon_lol: Well, yeah, but it won't get less poor till it reigns back on the birth rate.

Absolutely!

(Malaysia is out of line because it has oil)

[CBM]

I have re-arranged the numbers in descending order of number of live births per 1,000 per annum - the other figures are GDP per head in US$ :

Philippines: 4,073................. 25

Malaysia: 15,568.................20*

Cambodia 2,216................22

Brunei: 49,385...............19*

Indonesia 4,666................18

Vietnam: 3,359.................17

(Ireland: 38.369.................17)

Thailand: 9,396..................12

(China: 8,0000.................12)

(UK: 36,090.................12)

(Hong Kong: 49137................13**

Singapore: 59,000..................9

* Brunei and Malaysia are major oil and gas exporters.

**Hong Kong's birth rate is distorted upwards by Mainland mothers choosing to give birth there so that their children get right of abode there.

[CBM]

Interesting commentary from a liberal Filipino website which disagrees with the CBCP's count of legislators voting against..

http://www.rappler.com/move-ph/9675-poverty,-scarcity-and-the-rule-of-the-catholic-church

[lastlid]

Presumably they don't have polls like we have in the UK?

[CBM]

Yes, they do, but unlike the House of Commons where the Whip system is well developed, so a "rebellion" is planned in advance and the numbers are known, the Congress and the Senate are really assemblies of independents, so predicting how they will vote is much harder because they can easily change their minds, with no penalty.

[CBM]

Good BBC programme, here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KBmw6UuNgVo

[Doc Alan]

Good BBC programme, here:


Thanks CBM :xxgrinning--00xx3: If only all members could spare the time to view this, and all threads on the topic could be merged.

[lastlid]

Good BBC programme, here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KBmw6UuNgVo
I will get a squint at this after work....:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

President and the Pulpit. Yes, I saw this a few months back, watched it through with my wife. Bishop Bacani? Amazing.

I think I saw it on TV. A Kate McGeown programme.

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/37692-BBC-News-Our-World?highlight=Bishop+Bacani

[lastlid]

Good BBC programme, here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KBmw6UuNgVo

About 19 / 20 minutes in, on remedies, is quite alarming. Pampa Regla to control pregnancies. Right outside the church.....

[gWaPito]

So, lets say the bill gets passed with or without the church's blessing...you you honestly think the Philippine population are going start popping the birth pills and the guys gonna start wearing condoms at will?

I really dont think so....these anti contraception measures run deep in there minds...its been known for women to completely give intercou a miss rather than take contraceptives measures..no goverment bill is gonna change this mindset overnight..even over decades

[lastlid]

So, lets say the bill gets passed with or without the church's blessing...you you honestly think the Philippine population are going start popping the birth pills and the guys gonna start wearing condoms at will?

I really dont think so....these anti contraception measures run deep in there minds...its been known for women to completely give intercou a miss rather than take contraceptives measures..no goverment bill is gonna change this mindset overnight..even over decades

It isnt just about that. It is also about education and raising awareness. Sure it wont happen overnight.

[lastlid]

"The basic content of the Consolidated Reproductive Health Bill is divided into the following sections.
Title
Declaration of Policy
Guiding Principles
Definition of Terms
Midwives for Skilled Attendance
Emergency Obstetric Care
Access to Family Planning
Maternal and Newborn Health Care in Crisis Situations
Maternal Death Review
Family Planning Supplies as Essential Medicines
Procurement and Distribution of Family Planning Supplies
Integration of Family Planning and Responsible Parenthood Component in Anti-Poverty Programs
Roles of Local Government in Family Planning Programs
Benefits for Serious and Life-Threatening Reproductive Health Conditions
Mobile Health Care Service
Mandatory Age-Appropriate Reproductive Health and Sexuality Education
Additional Duty of the Local Population Officer
Certificate of Compliance
Capability Building of Barangay Health Workers
Ideal Family Size
Employers’ Responsibilities
Pro Bono Services for Indigent Women
Sexual And Reproductive Health Programs For Persons With Disabilities (PWDs)
Right to Reproductive Health Care Information
Implementing Mechanisms
Reporting Requirements
Congressional Oversight Committee
Prohibited Acts
Penalties
Appropriations
Implementing Rules and Regulations
Separability Clause
Repealing Clause
Effectivity

Summary of major provisions
The bill mandates the government to “promote, without bias, all effective natural and modern methods of family planning that are medically safe and legal.”
Although abortion is recognized as illegal and punishable by law, the bill states that “the government shall ensure that all women needing care for post-abortion complications shall be treated and counseled in a humane, non-judgmental and compassionate manner.”
The bill calls for a “multi-dimensional approach” integrates a component of family planning and responsible parenthood into all government anti-poverty programs.
Under the bill, age-appropriate reproductive health and sexuality education is required from grade five to fourth year high school using “life-skills and other approaches.”
The bill also mandates the Department of Labor and Employment to guarantee the reproductive health rights of its female employees. Companies with less than 200 workers are required to enter into partnership with health care providers in their area for the delivery of reproductive health services.
Employers with more than 200 employees shall provide reproductive health services to all employees in their own respective health facilities. Those with less than 200 workers shall enter into partnerships with health professionals for the delivery of reproductive health services. Employers shall inform employees of the availability of family planning services. They are also obliged to monitor pregnant working employees among their workforce and ensure they are provided paid half-day prenatal medical leaves for each month of the pregnancy period that they are employed.
The national government and local governments will ensure the availability of reproductive health care services, including family planning and prenatal care.
Any person or public official who prohibits or restricts the delivery of legal and medically safe reproductive health care services will be meted penalty by imprisonment or a fine."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproductive_Health_Bill

[CBM]

About 19 / 20 minutes in, on remedies, is quite alarming. Pampa Regla to control pregnancies. Right outside the church.....

That church porch is actually well known as the place to go to for "medicines to regulate menstruation". It's the Church of the Black Nazarene in Quiapo.

[lastlid]

"“Pampa Regla" a potion sold outside the entrance to the Quiapo Church in Manila Philippines is used to induce abortions. The Catholic church forbids the use of contraceptives and the country outlaws abortion. With a population of 96 million and growing the Philippines is the world’s 12th-largest country."

In the Philippines, a country of 96 million people, access to birth control is mostly limited to those with the means to buy it. A “reproductive health bill" in the national legislature seeks to change that: It calls for public education about contraceptives and government subsidies to make them available to everyone."

http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120804/NEWS0107/208040385/1159&nav_category=

[CBM]

Many of us know Quiapo as the place where there are a lot of bus terminals - it's not the nicest part of Manila and you need to be very alert if you are a foreigner there. Indeed it probably is not a place where a foreigner should go on his, let alone her, own.


The Wikipedia entry even mentions the stuff sold outside the church... everybody knows that is the place to go for
these "medicines"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiapo_Church

Two products sold outside the church...

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/acraigbennett/Quiapopills.jpg

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/acraigbennett/Quiapobottles.jpg

The pills are said to be "more reliable" - those in the picture appear to be genuine, or at least the packaging is right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misoprosto

[lastlid]

Quiapo. Seems to be a place of contradictions....

[CBM]

A woman who takes such preparations is obviously risking her life but she is also risking arrest if she goes to hospital after taking them... some bleed to death, instead.

[CBM]

Quiapo. Seems to be a place of contradictions....

Let's say, a place where there is a long tradition of commercial enterprise, and where anything can be bought and sold...certainly including the lives of your enemies...

There are times when Manila reminds me of Terry Pratchett's Ankh-Morpork - the Pasig river is just about as polluted as the Ankh..

[gWaPito]

"The basic content of the Consolidated Reproductive Health Bill is divided into the following sections.
Title
Declaration of Policy
Guiding Principles
Definition of Terms
Midwives for Skilled Attendance
Emergency Obstetric Care
Access to Family Planning
Maternal and Newborn Health Care in Crisis Situations
Maternal Death Review
Family Planning Supplies as Essential Medicines
Procurement and Distribution of Family Planning Supplies
Integration of Family Planning and Responsible Parenthood Component in Anti-Poverty Programs
Roles of Local Government in Family Planning Programs
Benefits for Serious and Life-Threatening Reproductive Health Conditions
Mobile Health Care Service
Mandatory Age-Appropriate Reproductive Health and Sexuality Education
Additional Duty of the Local Population Officer
Certificate of Compliance
Capability Building of Barangay Health Workers
Ideal Family Size
Employers’ Responsibilities
Pro Bono Services for Indigent Women
Sexual And Reproductive Health Programs For Persons With Disabilities (PWDs)
Right to Reproductive Health Care Information
Implementing Mechanisms
Reporting Requirements
Congressional Oversight Committee
Prohibited Acts
Penalties
Appropriations
Implementing Rules and Regulations
Separability Clause
Repealing Clause
Effectivity

Summary of major provisions
The bill mandates the government to “promote, without bias, all effective natural and modern methods of family planning that are medically safe and legal.”
Although abortion is recognized as illegal and punishable by law, the bill states that “the government shall ensure that all women needing care for post-abortion complications shall be treated and counseled in a humane, non-judgmental and compassionate manner.”
The bill calls for a “multi-dimensional approach” integrates a component of family planning and responsible parenthood into all government anti-poverty programs.
Under the bill, age-appropriate reproductive health and sexuality education is required from grade five to fourth year high school using “life-skills and other approaches.”
The bill also mandates the Department of Labor and Employment to guarantee the reproductive health rights of its female employees. Companies with less than 200 workers are required to enter into partnership with health care providers in their area for the delivery of reproductive health services.
Employers with more than 200 employees shall provide reproductive health services to all employees in their own respective health facilities. Those with less than 200 workers shall enter into partnerships with health professionals for the delivery of reproductive health services. Employers shall inform employees of the availability of family planning services. They are also obliged to monitor pregnant working employees among their workforce and ensure they are provided paid half-day prenatal medical leaves for each month of the pregnancy period that they are employed.
The national government and local governments will ensure the availability of reproductive health care services, including family planning and prenatal care.
Any person or public official who prohibits or restricts the delivery of legal and medically safe reproductive health care services will be meted penalty by imprisonment or a fine."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproductive_Health_Bill

Thank you for that Lastlid...that's the first time I've read it :xxgrinning--00xx3:

They certainly are starting from ground zero :NoNo:

I absolutely agree with the bill, really I do and the need to get it through as soon as possible but, where on earth is the funding gonna come from?...if this situation had been in the west taxes would be raised and that would be it...we'd probably suffer with fewer holidays etc..no real big deal...not so in the phils..most employees have just enough money to pay bills and put food on the table.

Perhaps tax the remittances pouring into the country every second of the day...that from what I see is there main growth industry.

No wonder its taken 10ys to dates to get thus far...its a pipe dream....I really cant see it happening.

[lastlid]

Thank you for that Lastlid...that's the first time I've read it :xxgrinning--00xx3:

They certainly are starting from ground zero :NoNo:

I absolutely agree with the bill, really I do and the need to get it through as soon as possible but, where on earth is the funding gonna come from?...if this situation had been in the west taxes would be raised and that would be it...we'd probably suffer with fewer holidays etc..no real big deal...not so in the phils..most employees have just enough money to pay bills and put food on the table.

Perhaps tax the remittances pouring into the country every second of the day...that from what I see is there main growth industry.

No wonder its taken 10ys to dates to get thus far...its a pipe dream....I really cant see it happening.

Turn that on its head. Can they afford not to....it would pay for itself a million times over.

[Doc Alan]

Unfortunately there are several inter-related threads concerning the RH Bill, health of mums and kids, and malnutrition in filipino kids. This does make it difficult for interested members to keep up :doh. Rather than offer further internet links, here is my opinion – ONLY an opinion, and already stated - about health of mums and kids and how it may be improved in the Philippines. This is in addition to family planning.
• Spend more of the GDP ( Gross Domestic Product ) on a better coordinated and locally available health service.
• More health insurance.
• Train – and retain in the Philippines - more specialist doctors. There are enough nurses/midwives.
• Vaccinations – routine use of rotavirus vaccine ( already planned ) to reduce childhood diarrhoea cases ; pneumococcal vaccine for childhood pneumonia ; BCG for tuberculosis ; hepatitis B vaccine ( prevents commonest form of hepatitis and liver cancer in later life ); vaccines for other childhood infections such as measles ; HPV ( human papilloma virus ) vaccine for 12-13 year old female teenagers ( prevents adult cervical cancer ; cervical screening still necessary). Dengue vaccine – not yet available ; rabies vaccine should be more readily available. Polio has been eradicated ; AIDS and malaria – no vaccines yet, but not major problems.
• Health and Safety – reduce chances of serious injuries, whether on the roads, as a result of “ natural disasters “, or in the home.
• Better / earlier diagnosis and treatment of congenital abnormalities.
• Malnutrition – many factors inter-relate here :- cost and knowledge about healthy / unhealthy foods. Teenage mums especially have poor eating habits, together with smoking, drinking alcohol, and taking illicit drugs.
• Obesity – ironically, also a problem which leads to adult health risks similar to those in the UK. Screening for diabetes is cheap.
• Cataracts – simply and effectively treated – are a major problem. Poor nutrition, measles, and prematurity are others affecting eyesight.
• Better dental care – for a start, regular brushing of teeth with fluoridated toothpaste.
• Obviously some – maybe most - of this is wishful thinking, but it concerns all of us with connections to the country.

[gWaPito]

In decades Lastlid...no goverment is interested in investing in long term goals like that.....look at our outdated railways...compared to the French system, its a disgrace....all thanks to the 5 year terms in office.

What are the figures being banded about to get bill up and running?....I see what benefits the bill will bring etc but no costings....really, this is bad housekeeping...post some stuff about funding Lastlid...I await :)

[lastlid]

In decades Lastlid...no goverment is interested in investing in long term goals like that.....look at our outdated railways...compared to the French system, its a disgrace....all thanks to the 5 year terms in office.

What are the figures being banded about to get bill up and running?....I see what benefits the bill will bring etc but no costings....really, this is bad housekeeping...post some stuff about funding Lastlid...I await :)

They will have to find the money. Cant afford not to.

The RH Bill is the start....a prerequisite.

[lastlid]

Worth taking out a loan for......

RH LAW MEANS LESS FISCAL WOES
"Mr. Aquino should know that the RH Bill, if it becomes a law, will help solve a lot of his -- and his successors’ -- fiscal woes. All of a sudden, budget deficits will become manageable, the likelihood of an investment upgrade improved, more funds will be freed up for much needed public infrastructure, and growth will be sustainable as the poor will rely less on the thinning forests for their sources of energy.
If RH bill becomes a law, less public funds will be needed to support the revenue-draining conditional cash transfer (CCT) program. It will mean giving conditional cash assistance to a few million less poor Filipinos."

http://www.bworldonline.com/content.php?section=Opinion&title=Read-his-lips-on-the-RH-bill&id=55690

"All these fiscal and economic benefits from the RH bill will not happen overnight. But they will surely change, for the better, the country’s fiscal outlook, its people’s welfare, and the environment in the long run."

[CBM]

And more from the Bishops..

"Contraception is Corruption" :Erm:

and the winner:

"Say No to Safe Sex!" :yikes:

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/242667/bishop-soc-lambasts-aquino-says-contraception-is-corruption

[lastlid]

And more from the Bishops..

"Contraception is Corruption" :Erm:

and the winner:

"Say No to Safe Sex!" :yikes:


:icon_lol: How about "Say no to safe sex. You know it makes sense." :icon_lol:

[Arjie]

As a Filipino Citizen

Philippine should pass the RH Bill..:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

The catholic church should not interfere with the government implementation of the RH Bill. Despite claiming "separation of church and state" the church has been very vocal in its decision to vote down the RH Bill. I think the RH Bill is good for the people of the Philippines. Education on family planning, availability of family planning devices and facilities for the promotion of family planning should be installed in place so that the vast majority of the people will know how to and access devices for family planning. I have seen many young women having a child and unable to attend school. They should know what to do to avoid getting pregnant.

Will the church take care of all the illegitimate children because the RH Bill will not passed because of their strong opposition? The RH Bill is aimed to avoiud population explosion. Hope it pass in both the House of Representatives and Senate to become the law of the land.:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[CBM]

As a Filipino Citizen

Philippine should pass the RH Bill..:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

The catholic church should not interfere with the government implementation of the RH Bill. Despite claiming "separation of church and state" the church has been very vocal in its decision to vote down the RH Bill. I think the RH Bill is good for the people of the Philippines. Education on family planning, availability of family planning devices and facilities for the promotion of family planning should be installed in place so that the vast majority of the people will know how to and access devices for family planning. I have seen many young women having a child and unable to attend school. They should know what to do to avoid getting pregnant.

Will the church take care of all the illegitimate children because the RH Bill will not passed because of their strong opposition? The RH Bill is aimed to avoiud population explosion. Hope it pass in both the House of Representatives and Senate to become the law of the land.:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

Bravo! Well said!:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[fred]

We had a Bishop on TV educating us as to why the R.P has not really suffered the world economic crisis and how it has never had an effect on the local economy as it has in most of the west..
He said that its because of the large amounts of the local population that are going abroad as OFW`s and sending just about all of it back to the P.I.. Family planning could put a stop to that eventually,he reckons.
Sounds pretty factual stuff to me...
Twisted facts yes..But facts none the less.

[CBM]

We had a Bishop on TV educating us as to why the R.P has not really suffered the world economic crisis and how it has never had an effect on the local economy as it has in most of the west..
He said that its because of the large amounts of the local population that are going abroad as OFW`s and sending just about all of it back to the P.I.. Family planning could put a stop to that eventually,he reckons.
Sounds pretty factual stuff to me...
Twisted facts yes..But facts none the less.

Twisted facts, in the "classic" manner.

The Bishop is "boiling frogs" - warm the water uo slowly and the frog won't jump out, but will stay in the pan and be boiled to death, because it does not realise what is happening.

He conveniently forgot to mention that Filipinos don't want to work abroad, away from their familes, and only do so because there is no work for them at home.

He forgot to mention family break ups due to overseas working.

He forgot to mention that the Philippines GDP per head is much less than that of China and Thailand, both of which had lower GDP per head than the Philippines twenty years ago, but which have controlled their population growth.

He forgot to mention that, because of the lack of birth control availability and the lack of sex education at school, the Philippines has a much higher rate of teenage pregnancy (the highest in SE Asia) and a much higher rate of abortions than the UK does.

The Bishop is relying on most Filipinos not realising that their nation could be different.

Incidentally I remember the 1997 economic crisis -the effect on the Philippines was considerable. The reason there is so little effect this time is that the Philippines exports so few manufactured goods - most exports are agricultural products to the USA.

[Arjie]

Twisted facts, in the "classic" manner.

The Bishop is "boiling frogs" - warm the water uo slowly and the frog won't jump out, but will stay in the pan and be boiled to death, because it does not realise what is happening.

He conveniently forgot to mention that Filipinos don't want to work abroad, away from their familes, and only do so because there is no work for them at home.

He forgot to mention family break ups due to overseas working.

He forgot to mention that the Philippines GDP per head is much less than that of China and Thailand, both of which had lower GDP per head than the Philippines twenty years ago, but which have controlled their population growth.

He forgot to mention that, because of the lack of birth control availability and the lack of sex education at school, the Philippines has a much higher rate of teenage pregnancy (the highest in SE Asia) and a much higher rate of abortions than the UK does.

The Bishop is relying on most Filipinos not realising that their nation could be different.

Incidentally I remember the 1997 economic crisis -the effect on the Philippines was considerable. The reason there is so little effect this time is that the Philippines exports so few manufactured goods - most exports are agricultural products to the USA.


True:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::appl:

[sars_notd_virus]

just like the divorce bill, i dont think the RH bill will push through in the near future...CBP will always be a part of any family laws in the Philippines :crazy:

[lastlid]

We had a Bishop on TV educating us as to why the R.P has not really suffered the world economic crisis and how it has never had an effect on the local economy as it has in most of the west..
He said that its because of the large amounts of the local population that are going abroad as OFW`s and sending just about all of it back to the P.I.. Family planning could put a stop to that eventually,he reckons.
Sounds pretty factual stuff to me...
Twisted facts yes..But facts none the less.

Sounds like a lot of nonsense.

[CBM]

Nice summary by the BBC, here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19134777

[Mr Pickwick]

I seem to remember a program on the BBC a while back about this?



As a Filipino Citizen

Philippine should pass the RH Bill..:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

The catholic church should not interfere with the government implementation of the RH Bill. Despite claiming "separation of church and state" the church has been very vocal in its decision to vote down the RH Bill. I think the RH Bill is good for the people of the Philippines. Education on family planning, availability of family planning devices and facilities for the promotion of family planning should be installed in place so that the vast majority of the people will know how to and access devices for family planning. I have seen many young women having a child and unable to attend school. They should know what to do to avoid getting pregnant.

Will the church take care of all the illegitimate children because the RH Bill will not passed because of their strong opposition? The RH Bill is aimed to avoiud population explosion. Hope it pass in both the House of Representatives and Senate to become the law of the land.:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

Nice summary by the BBC, here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19134777


And one of the country's most popular and influential figures, boxer-turned-congressman Manny Pacquiao, has joined the debate, saying contraception is against God's will.

I wish Pacquiao would stick to boxing...

[lastlid]

I seem to remember a program on the BBC a while back about this?

There was. The President and the Pulpit...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01gkffk

[lastlid]

Lawmakers Weigh Reproductive-Health Bill in the Philippines

Wall Street Journal

"Philippines President Benigno Aquino is facing a test of his policy agenda as lawmakers weigh a controversial reproductive-health bill fiercely opposed by the country's influential Catholic Church.

The bill under consideration by the Philippines House of Representatives, which drew sizable protests in Manila over the weekend, would seek to bring down the country's unusually high birth rate by requiring the government to make contraceptives available, among other steps. It would also require officials to provide information on family planning methods, including helping families determine how many children to have, and provide classes on reproductive health and sexuality in schools.

Lawmakers took a first step towards approving the bill late Monday, when they voted to end debates on the measure and push it to a final vote soon. It remains unclear when the final vote will come, though supporters hope to wrap it up within the next two months. If the Philippines House does approve the bill, backers would still have to gain support from the Philippines Senate—a task that analysts say could be difficult.

The topic has long been a combustible one in the Philippines, largely because the country's powerful Catholic Church opposes family planning programs that it believes encourage promiscuity and lead to weaker moral values. An estimated 10,000 people rallied against the bill in Manila on Saturday."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443659204577572762922032678.html

[CBM]

It looks like the RH Bill has got to a second reading - it has only taken 15 years to get this far..

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/08/06/12/house-ends-rh-bill-debates

[lastlid]

It looks like the RH Bill has got to a second reading - it has only taken 15 years to get this far..

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/08/06/12/house-ends-rh-bill-debates

Rep. Amado Bagatsing argued against putting RH bill debates to vote August 6, claiming that 6 is the number of the devil.

"Malas po ang 6, dun tayo sa (August) 7," he claimed. "Ang 6 ay numero ng demonyo."

:icon_lol:

[fred]

Sounds like a lot of nonsense. OFW remittances amounted to 23 Billion $$ last year.. This is the reason I cannot get a seat in pizza hut these days..Fortunately I hate Jollibee as you need to book a week in advance to be able to sit down in there! These food outlets all around the country are full to the brim EVERY DAY!! Doesnt look much like a starving country to me.


Incidentally I remember the 1997 economic crisis -the effect on the Philippines was considerable. The reason there is so little effect this time is that the Philippines exports so few manufactured goods - most exports are agricultural products to the USA. I would have thought that most agri products like bananas and coco produce goes to near by China and Japan along with mined natural resourses such as gold,silver,nickel,copper etc..The mineral resources for example are massive..Around 4/5 trillion $ beneath their feet..A potential that probably will never be realized because of unnecessary environmental concerns and very bad foreign investment policies and laws..
The R.P cannot produce anywhere near enough of its staple foods such as rice and need to import large amounts.
The 1997 asian economic crisis hit the R.P almost to 0% growth because the serious drop of it exports to its Asian neighbours.. I would take a serious bet that it was the OFW remittances that prevented things getting a whole lot worse back then.

He conveniently forgot to mention that Filipinos don't want to work abroad, away from their familes, and only do so because there is no work for them at home.I know of many Filipinos that work abroad,wish to settle and never return.. Thats good.. If they all came back here the islands may begin to sink!:NoNo:
Im not here to argue the point of the Bishop...Im just saying I think he made a valid point based on OFW facts..
He went on to say that the R.P was not suffering economically like the west as the country was actively following God`s plan.
Most Filipinos believe him so I suppose we had better just get over it!!

[lastlid]

OFW remittances amounted to 23 Billion $$ last year.. This is the reason I cannot get a seat in pizza hut these days..Fortunately I hate Jollibee as you need to book a week in advance to be able to sit down in there! These food outlets all around the country are full to the brim EVERY DAY!! Doesnt look much like a starving country to me.

I would have thought that most agri products like bananas and coco produce goes to near by China and Japan along with mined natural resourses such as gold,silver,nickel,copper etc..
The R.P cannot produce anywhere near enough of its staple foods such as rice and need to import large amounts.
The 1997 asian economic crisis hit the R.P almost to 0% growth because the serious drop of it exports to its Asian neighbours.. I would take a serious bet that it was the OFW remittances that prevented things getting a whole lot worse back then.
I know of many Filipinos that work abroad,wish to settle and never return.. Thats good.. If they all came back here the islands may begin to sink!:NoNo:
Im not here to argue the point of the Bishop...Im just saying I think he made a valid point based on OFW facts..
He went on to say that the R.P was not suffering economically like the west as the country was actively following God`s plan.
Most Filipinos believe him so I suppose we had better just get over it!!

I married a Filipina that whilst being a devout catholic is pro RH Bill and doesn't think that all the Bishops say is "gospel"...and I think there are a lot of those about too. From my point of view some of these Bishops seem like crackpots on crack or comedians or both.

[lastlid]

Rep. Amado Bagatsing argued against putting RH bill debates to vote August 6, claiming that 6 is the number of the devil.

"Malas po ang 6, dun tayo sa (August) 7," he claimed. "Ang 6 ay numero ng demonyo."

:icon_lol:

Reminds me of I guy I knew who lived in Bolton who told me that they were trying to get the name of the A666 changed, for the same kind of reason...:icon_lol:

[CBM]

Any minute now some Bishop ,or Congressman or Mike Velarde, will pop up and say the floods are God's Judgement on the Filipinos for the House giving a second reading to the RH Bill...

[lastlid]

Any minute now some Bishop ,or Congressman or Mike Velarde, will pop up and say the floods are God's Judgement on the Filipinos for the House giving a second reading to the RH Bill...

Yes. I know they haven't said that yet, but its the kind of crazy thing they seem to say.

[gWaPito]

Really, respect should be shown to others beliefs, no matter what some might think...Fred told you as it is...whether you lot think its mumbo jumbo is neither here or there....so please give it a rest belittling others who dont think the same.

[lastlid]

Really, respect should be shown to others beliefs, no matter what some might think...Fred told you as it is...whether you lot think its mumbo jumbo is neither here or there....so please give it a rest belittling others who dont think the same.

I have a lot of respect for a wide range of beliefs but am also discerning. I am not a catholic, I am an atheist but I have respect for catholicism and christianity but that doesn't mean I ought to swallow any old nonsense. And there are many filipinos that share that belief too. Many staunch catholics are fed up with the anti RH stance and my wife is one of them. Its perfectly possible to be a devout catholic and not agree with every word that the Bishops have to say.

On the here nor there and mumbo jumbo. This mumbo jumbo affects my wife's family, so it does concern me.

[lastlid]

"I went to mass on Sundays, prayed the rosary with my late great grandmother, attended a Catholic school, and wrote weekly gospel reflections for my Christian Living (CL) classes. When I was about 13 years old and had to receive Confirmation, I asked my CL teacher why we had to confess to a priest.
“Because he’s the mediator between you and God,” she said.
“Oh, but isn’t God omnipresent?” I wasn’t being a smartass, I was just curious. I don’t remember what her answer was, but I remember her asking me after class if I had problems at home. If by “problems,” she meant “freethinking parents,” then I was in trouble."

The thoughts of a Filipina. I think I concur with that line of thinking.

[gWaPito]

You may well concur with that quote but, im afraid the overwhelming Philippine majority, dont.

[lastlid]

You may well concur with that quote but, im afraid the overwhelming Philippine majority, dont.

Is that factually accurate?

[gWaPito]

Church attendance alone would give you a clue

[lastlid]

Church attendance alone would give you a clue Just because you go to church doesn't mean you agree with absolutely anything the Bishop might say. Or would you?

[lastlid]

Twisted facts yes..

No doubt Fred will correct me if I am wrong but Fred used the expression "twisted facts". I was merely agreeing.

[gWaPito]

Just because you go to church doesn't mean you agree with absolutely anything the Bishop might say. Or would you?

I would hazard a guess and say hypocrisy isn't all that common in the Philippines unlike in other parts of the globe :NoNo:. So in answer to your question, yes.

[lastlid]

I would hazard a guess and say hypocrisy isn't all that common in the Philippines unlike in other parts of the globe :NoNo:. So in answer to your question, yes.

"Hypocrisy isn't all that common in the Philippines". Is that factually accurate? I am surprised you said that. Did you think before typing that?

[Doc Alan]

May I humbly suggest that members look at the thread on health of mums and kids ( http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/39689-Health-of-mums-and-kids-Philippines-and-UK )
which so far has had less than half the views and replies of this thread. I’m grateful to those members who have contributed to both.
Originally I hoped the threads related to this topic could be merged – now I’m glad they haven’t. Several times I have made the point that I’m not qualified to make religious or political judgements. It is, however, factually correct that lack of family planning holds countries back. There is a demographic dividend from reduced fertility – more working-age adults and fewer dependents. But what I have also made clear – with qualification – is that many factors are involved in improving health of this vitally important group of people, wherever they live. It may be naïve and unrealistic to hope for all the improvements needed – but members should surely want to understand the facts, devoid of religious and political overtones.

[raynaputi]

Oh hipocrisy is so common in the Philippines..many people would consider themselves very religious yet if you see them how they live their everyday life, you would just laugh at what they say and do..For example, every time holy week would come, lots of people would do things to ask for God's forgiveness and would do novena, "pabasa", and some penitence..After holy week, back to their old self..like gossiping and fighting with neighbors or even family members themselves, doing illegal stuffs like robbing/snatching/thieving or drugs, and other stuffs like that. None of those things are being told in the Bible that all religious people have read. None of those things are being taught by every religious sector we know. Yet it is prevalent. I just have to watch all my neighbors and you can see the hipocrisy of the so-called religious people have.Just to make it clear, I believe in God as most Filipinos do. But I wouldn't consider myself religious because I have my own way of doing it.

And my opinion about the Catholic church being against the RH Bill, I think they have no clue about things that involve sex as they haven't done it. They should just let the government decide whether to approve it or not.

[lastlid]

May I humbly suggest that members look at the thread on health of mums and kids ( http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/39689-Health-of-mums-and-kids-Philippines-and-UK )
which so far has had less than half the views and replies of this thread. I’m grateful to those members who have contributed to both.
Originally I hoped the threads related to this topic could be merged – now I’m glad they haven’t. Several times I have made the point that I’m not qualified to make religious or political judgements. It is, however, factually correct that lack of family planning holds countries back. There is a demographic dividend from reduced fertility – more working-age adults and fewer dependents. But what I have also made clear – with qualification – is that many factors are involved in improving health of this vitally important group of people, wherever they live. It may be naïve and unrealistic to hope for all the improvements needed – but members should surely want to understand the facts, devoid of religious and political overtones.

I agree. But I can see how the two threads have come about separately. I think this one gathered a bit more momentum at one stage at the expense of the other but both are as significant as the other, the chief difference being the focus on the Catholic bishops and their part that they play on the potential passing of the RH Bill.

From my point of view the facts that you rightly point out are unfortunately exacerbated by the Catholic bishops and thus political and religious overtones are inherently brought into the discussion.

[lastlid]

Oh hipocrisy is so common in the Philippines..many people would consider themselves very religious yet if you see them how they live their everyday life, you would just laugh at what they say and do..For example, every time holy week would come, lots of people would do things to ask for God's forgiveness and would do novena, "pabasa", and some penitence..After holy week, back to their old self..like gossiping and fighting with neighbors or even family members themselves, doing illegal stuffs like robbing/snatching/thieving or drugs, and other stuffs like that. None of those things are being told in the Bible that all religious people have read. None of those things are being thought by every religious sector we know. Yet it is prevalent. I just have to watch all my neighbors and you can see the hipocrisy of the so-called religious people have.Just to make it clear, I believe in God as most Filipinos do. But I wouldn't consider myself religious because I have my own way of doing it.

And my opinion about the Catholic church being against the RH Bill, I think they have no clue about things that involve sex as they haven't done it. They should just let the government decide whether to approve it or not.

What you have just said there is pretty close to what my wife says.

[raynaputi]

One very famous song in the Philippines about the hipocrisy of religious people is Banal na Aso, Santong Kabayo..


Banal Na Aso, Santong Kabayo

Kaharap ko sa dyip ang isang ale
Nagrorosaryo mata niya'y nakapikit
Pumara sa may kumbento
Sa babaan lang po sabi ng tsuper kase me naghuhuli
Mura pa rin nang mura ang ale

Banal na aso, santong kabayo
Natatawa ako hihihihi
Banal na aso, santong kabayo
Natatawa ako hihihihi
Sa 'yo

Nangangaral sa kalye ang isang lalake
Hiningan ng pera ng batang pulubi
Pasensya na para daw sa templo
Pangkain lang po sabi ng paslit
Talagang di ba pupwede?
Lumipat ng pwesto ang lalake

Banal na aso, santong kabayo
Natatawa ako hihihihi
Banal na aso, santong kabayo
Natatawa ako hihihihi
Sa 'yo

Anuman ang iyong ginagawa sa iyong kapatid
Ay siya ring ginagawa mo sa akin

Banal na aso, santong kabayo
Natatawa ako hihihihi
Banal na aso, santong kabayo
Natatawa ako hihihihi
Sa 'yo


Translation in English is below..


In front of me was a lady
Praying the rosary with her eyes closed
She asked to be dropped off at the convent
The driver replied "To the rightful unloading area lest I'll be caught."
But the lady started cursing.

Chorus:
Holy dog, saintly horse
I am laughing, Hi hi hi hi
Holy dog, saintly horse
I am laughing, Hi hi hi hi
At you.

A man is preaching on the streets
A beggar boy asked him for alms
"I am sorry," he said, "This is for the temple."
And the child begged, "Just for my food, please,
Can you not give me anything?"
But the preacher moved somewhere else.

Repeat Chorus

Whatever you are doing to your brothers
Is what you are also doing to me.

Repeat Chorus

*** The song is about the irony of people pretending to be holy when their acts are obviously in contrast to what they project to be, or preach.

[lastlid]

May I humbly suggest that members look at the thread on health of mums and kids ( http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/39689-Health-of-mums-and-kids-Philippines-and-UK )
which so far has had less than half the views and replies of this thread. I’m grateful to those members who have contributed to both.
Originally I hoped the threads related to this topic could be merged – now I’m glad they haven’t. Several times I have made the point that I’m not qualified to make religious or political judgements. It is, however, factually correct that lack of family planning holds countries back. There is a demographic dividend from reduced fertility – more working-age adults and fewer dependents. But what I have also made clear – with qualification – is that many factors are involved in improving health of this vitally important group of people, wherever they live. It may be naïve and unrealistic to hope for all the improvements needed – but members should surely want to understand the facts, devoid of religious and political overtones.

Exactly.

[CBM]

We were expecting this one, of course...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/540365_10151060644558643_295740321_n.jpg

Considering how long He has had to practice, God's aim is lousy - did He only drown "pro-RH" Filipinos, or did He just drown poor ones?

Or were the floods perhaps a consequence of overpopulation forcing people to build "informal housing" (shacks) on flood plains and hillsides?

[lastlid]

We were expecting this one, of course...



How prophetic.

[gWaPito]

I stand corrected :xxgrinning--00xx3: I was just standing up for my family's country.:)

[lastlid]

I stand corrected :xxgrinning--00xx3: I was just standing up for my family's country.:)

But the way I see it is that you aren't standing up for the Philippines if you are anti RH Bill.

[gWaPito]

But the way I see it is that you aren't standing up for the Philippines if you are anti RH Bill.

Where did you get that from???...I stated way back im pro RH Bill.

It was pointed out that more than likely the majority of the population would, given the vote, would side with the Bishop.

What would you have them do....like Eira..republic of Ireland..have them vote until they vote the right way

[lastlid]

A bit of humour. My kind of sermon. I believe many Filipinos love this guy.....:xxgrinning--00xx3:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5e-1sBM9FE&feature=related

[gWaPito]

I'll agree with that...good ol Mr Bean, flying the British flag. :)

[CBM]

Talking of (unintentional) comedy, this you HAVE to read.. Senator Tito Sotto, self appointed leader of the "anti RH Bill" bloc in the Senate, has been caught by my favourite Filipino organisation, Filipino Freethinkers, cribbing a large chunk of his speech on the evils of the Pill from a US writer's blog about recipies.

We all know Sotto used to be a comedian on "Eat Bulaga" (and, this being the Philippines, the grandson and nephew of other Senators, but I don't think he was intending to be this funny:

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/269929/news/nation/sotto-s-anti-rh-speech-copied-from-us-blogger-who-writes-about-recipes

Incidentally,0nce you have read that, follow the link to Filipino Freethinkers if you have a moment...

[gWaPito]

Not read it....no moment!.....the Filipino freethinkers sounds like our liberal equivalent and where has that namby pamby thinking got us.....in the mire, country ruined.....Disband you freethinkers of the Philippines...you know it makes sense :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[CBM]

Go on - take a look - I dare you! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[raynaputi]

A letter to Sen. Sotto... http://pssst.com.ph/dear-sen-sotto :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

There is a parallel thread on this as we speak...

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/40636-What-does-Phils.-Senator-think-of-doing-this-ouch

[lastlid]

Go on - take a look - I dare you! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I have. I will need to spend a bit of time reading and digesting it. Presumably Filipino Freethinkers is not the same as freethinking Filipinos?

[CBM]

I have. I will need to spend a bit of time reading and digesting it. Presumably Filipino Freethinkers is not the same as freethinking Filipinos?

Just another bunch of well meaning middle class intellectuals!

But well meaning middle class intellectuals can work wonders - Marcos fell in part because of the excellent work done by Social Weather Stations in preventing polling fraud.

[lastlid]

Just another bunch of well meaning middle class intellectuals!

But well meaning middle class intellectuals can work wonders - Marcos fell in part because of the excellent work done by Social Weather Stations in preventing polling fraud.

I guess its a start though....

[CBM]

I guess its a start though....

They look like fun - I am going to be in Manila shortly and will make a point of turning up to a meeting!

[lastlid]

Just had a quick squint through the Filipino Freethinkers. I notice it is all in English....

[CBM]

..because English is a national language.

National newspapers are published in it; national TV programmes use it, it is the language of the Law and of Congress.

There are people who refuse to use Taglish because it is a language that can only be understood if you are bilingual (and "hip"!) in both English and Taglog so you don't "get through" to anyone else, and there are people who use English because their native tongue is not Tagalog and they don't see why they should use Tagalog if they are native speakers of Ilocano, Bisayan, etc...

[lastlid]

..because English is a national language.

National newspapers are published in it; national TV programmes use it, it is the language of the Law and of Congress.

There are people who refuse to use Taglish because it is a language that can only be understood if you are bilingual (and "hip"!) in both English and Taglog so you don't "get through" to anyone else, and there are people who use English because their native tongue is not Tagalog and they don't see why they should use Tagalog if they are native speakers of Ilocano, Bisayan, etc...

I see.

[CBM]

This is interesting.

Representative Kimi Cojuanco supports the RH Bill, and has made good use of Government statistics.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/254976/fewer-filipinos-marry-due-to-poverty-nscb

Marriages are decreasing by 1.5% a year whilst the population is rising by 2% a year - because the poor cannot afford to marry, still less can they afford an annulment should they find they have made a mistake.

Many of these new households will have been formed because the girl got pregnant, because neither he nor she had access to contraception...

[lastlid]

Annual Compounded Decline Rate? :D

[CBM]

Tito Sotto makes the New York Times - and "not in a good way"...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/30/opinion/in-the-philippines-a-rant-against-birth-control.html?_r=4

[CBM]

but Europeans see it differently...

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/271867/news/nation/after-visiting-manila-slums-european-legislators-call-for-passage-of-rh-bill

[lastlid]

but Europeans see it differently...

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/271867/news/nation/after-visiting-manila-slums-european-legislators-call-for-passage-of-rh-bill

Interesting post. I noted the Portugese representation being quoted. The Portugese are a fairly strict Roman Catholic country. A trip to Fatima a few years ago (2002) opened my eyes up to that. It was a bit of an eyeopener to be honest. First time I had seen religious tourism too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A1tima,_Portugal

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1566073/Catholic-pilgrims-flock-to-holy-shrine-Fatima.html#

I am not religious but I was staggered by what I saw.

"The shrine attracts a large number of Roman Catholics, and every year pilgrims fill the country road that leads to the shrine with crowds that approach one million on May 13th and October 13th, the significant dates of the Fátima apparitions. Overall, about four million pilgrims visit the basilica every year."

[lastlid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi7-gdxma3c

Not the best of commentries or videos, but illustrates the amazing belief these people have.

[Terpe]

European legislators call for passage of RH bill

Pregnant teenage girls. Young children being left to fend for themselves. Couples with 16 kids struggling to raise their families.

These were some of the images that greeted European legislators when they visited urban poor communities in Metro Manila this week.

Carina Hägg, a member of the Swedish parliament, said she was overcome with emotion when she witnessed the plight of poor families living near dumpsites and under bridges in the Philippines’ capital region.

“I really wanted to cry. It was very sad to see that not every woman here has access to healthcare. It was depressing to see kids lose their mothers too early,” she said in a press briefing in Quezon City on Thursday morning.

At the same briefing, Portuguese lawmaker Ricardo Baptista Leite said that the situation in Metro Manila slums reminded him of the population situation in his country three decades ago.

“It was really [a] learning experience for me. Thirty years ago in Portugal, we had very similar health indicators as you have now. We had maternal death rates and extremely high newborn death rates,” he said.

The foreign lawmakers’ visit to urban poor communities in Metro Manila was part of their study tour organized by the European Parliamentary Forum on Population and Development.

The tour was locally hosted by the Philippines Legislators Committee on Population and Development, a group that supports the passage of the reproductive health (RH) bill.

‘Crucial legislation’

In a joint statement issued on Thursday, the European parliamentarians endorsed the passage of the RH bill, which they described as a “crucial” legislation “for the eradication of poverty” in the Philippines.

British parliamentarian Helen Grant said the enactment of a reproductive health law is “critical” for the Philippines to improve the lives of its citizens.

“If this bill is passed, the Philippines will be able to nourish social justice by allowing women and girls to have children out of choice and not out of chance,” she said.

Birute Vesaite, a member of the parliament of Lithuania, meanwhile said that the RH bill should be passed to make sure that economic development in the Philippines will trickle down to the poor.

“The implementation of the law would be a test of the strength of the public provision of health services. This law will cost money but you can be proud that the Philippines is a well developing country. The fruits of development should reach the people of this country,” she said.

The RH bill, one of President Benigno Aquino III’s priority legislations, promotes the use of both natural and artificial methods of family planning. It is being opposed by the Roman Catholic Church, which promotes only natural forms of family planning.

The measure has yet to hurdle second reading in both chambers of Congress.

‘Engage the Church’

Leite, who comes from predominantly Roman Catholic Portugal, said it is important for the government to continue engaging Church officials in discussions to be able to make them appreciate the merits of the RH bill.

“There is no greater act of Christianity than saving lives, and that is what you are doing with the RH bill… We should not use faith to block or misinform. It is important to engage the Church in discussions in all levels,” he said.

Leite however said that the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church in Portugal seem to be more “modern” in their views and more mindful of the separation between Church and State.

“In my country, the Church is actually an ally in providing good health. They disagree with some laws, but they do not try to block it. They give their faithful the freedom to choose,” he said.

In the Philippines, a country of 96 million people, eight out of 10 Filipinos are Roman Catholics.

Grant, for her part, dared Filipino lawmakers to be “brave, bold and fearless” in enacting an RH law.

“Please do not miss this wonderful opportunity to make this law a real mover, changer and shaker for the Philippines. It might be a long time before it comes around again,” she said

Source:-
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/271867/news/nation/after-visiting-manila-slums-european-legislators-call-for-passage-of-rh-bill

[lastlid]

European legislators call for passage of RH bill

Pregnant teenage girls. Young children being left to fend for themselves. Couples with 16 kids struggling to raise their families.



Terpe, this one is buried away in post 102 above. :D I was responding to it cos of the reference to Portugal.

There are some cracking monastries in Portugal, 100km north of Lisbon, btw. And some great wines, not to mention ports from Porto. :D

[Terpe]

Terpe, this one is buried away in post 102 above. :D

Whoops! so it is:doh
My bad

[gWaPito]

Whoops! so it is:doh
My bad

No need for the whoops Terpe ...excellent post excellent reminder of the Portuguese holidays I took in the late 80's early 90's.

[grahamw48]

Someone needs to decide who governs the Phils...church or elected representatives.

In most respects the Roman catholic church is an absolute disgrace and a couple of thousand years behind the times.
A thoroughly self-serving bunch of parasites.

Just my most humble opinion...as a neutral Atheist who has nothing to fear from bolts of lightening. As for the fiery furnace awaiting me, I'll take my chances in exchange for having a free mind...and my Sundays free to watch motor-sport. :rolleyes:

I'll get me coat. :D

[gWaPito]

Nowt like not sitting on the fence Graham :icon_lol:...you making me laugh again :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

Nowt like not sitting on the fence Graham :icon_lol:...you making me laugh again :xxgrinning--00xx3:

:) Tbh ... there's NEITHER of you two blokes could ever be accused of "sitting on the fence"! :nono-1-1: And RIGHTLY so! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

Practice what you preach is what I say. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[gWaPito]

Someone needs to decide who governs the Phils...church or elected representatives.

In most respects the Roman catholic church is an absolute disgrace and a couple of thousand years behind the times.
A thoroughly self-serving bunch of parasites.

Just my most humble opinion...as a neutral Atheist who has nothing to fear from bolts of lightening. As for the fiery furnace awaiting me, I'll take my chances in exchange for having a free mind...and my Sundays free to watch motor-sport. :rolleyes:

I'll get me coat. :D

Talking of which, we got the pleasures of Spa this weekend :D.

Im hedging my bets Graham...the thought of gnashing my teeth in tunsavoury conditions for an eternity fills me with horror.:yikes:

[grahamw48]

Fantastic !:Jump:

I'd forgotten they're at what is probably my favourite track this weekend. :drivingx:

As for other matters, I'll assume my time is finite and make the most of what I've got left. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Then again...am I REALLY doing that ? :Erm:

[gWaPito]

Speaking for myself yes, is my answer...I'd hazard a guess you are the same. :)

[grahamw48]

Well, haven't robbed a bank yet or done 200mph on the M1. :Erm:

So much still to do. :cwm3:

[gWaPito]

Well, haven't robbed a bank yet or done 200mph on the M1. :Erm:

So much still to do. :cwm3:

Me too Graham..although I got close to doing that speed once on my unrestricted hayabusa..rather a stupid thing to do really :rolleyes:

[grahamw48]

I'll be at a big TVR meet next weekend at a local private airport...lots of mates going with their cars too.

The newly rebuilt and legendary 800bhp Cerbera Speed 12 ( street legal !) will be there doing demo runs, so I'm looking forward to that. :)

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFrMI3gc6x4

[sweet-man]

why dont you keep your dam opinion to yourself

[lastlid]

why dont you keep your dam opinion to yourself

Which post(s) are you referring to?

[Terpe]

why dont you keep your dam opinion to yourself


Which post(s) are you referring to?

yes, please elucidate ?