Ammunition

[andy222]

Ok guys I contacted the local radio station about not being able to get my wife and stepdaughter here because of the minimum income threshold. They have invited me to have my say on the show. I need some help on this. We have talked about the ins and outs on here before. For example why should our spouses take the english test?. I have been invited to talk on the station and put my points across. Obviously there will be people ringing in with their views so I want to get my answers ready. Any thoughts appreciated.:xxgrinning--00xx3:.

[stevewool]

thats a good start andy well done for getting this far, just have to be carefull what you say and how we can help you, its trying to put it in some sort of order, when is the date you are going

[lastlid]

Yes. Why should a Filippino, who's 2nd language is English, who is taught in English and has a degree in English taught in English, have to take the English Language Test ?

Or even why should a Filipino who has a 3 year degree taught in English have to take the test?

[lastlid]

Like you said ealier, Andy, the Philippines isn't Thailand or Cambodia etc in the same way that France isn't Britain. These South East Asian countries are all different in a range of ways.

[andy222]

I should have been on the show yesterday but I was working and my boss dont know anything about it if you know what I mean?. So they are arranging it for next week. Whether it will do us any good I dont know. But at least I will have my say.

[Ako Si Jamie]

Good on you Andy.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Which radio station is it?

[andy222]

Not telling you but its close to you.:icon_lol: WM

[lastlid]

Have you got your list of ironies lined up? Working for the NHS, daughter in the army etc etc

[Ako Si Jamie]

Not telling you but its close to you.:icon_lol: WMBBC West Midlands? :Erm:

[Dedworth]

Well done & Good luck Andy - I've been on local Radio (BBC & Commercial) a few times, interviewed in the studio, down the phone and by the roadside. 1st time was a bit daunting but after that it was much easier, try to imagine you are just getting your views over in a pub discussion. Best one I ever did was in the studio about a pikey invasion of a local park, I took a sheet of notes and must say points with me. They recorded it and did a few repeat broadcasts.

Make sure you are well prepared to get the salient points over.

[andy222]

BBC West Midlands? :Erm:

Yes mate radio wm

[andy222]

Thats why I asked on here Ded. If anybody has anything to ask and it is relevant i will do.

[lastlid]

See Yellowclouds post #64.....

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/39374-I-Got-A-Letter-Back-From-Chris-Row-Today-Regarding-The-Changes./page3?highlight=Yellowcloud

[grahamw48]

Write down the main points you want to raise on a piece of card...numbered and rehearsed...(just like the MPs do :rolleyes:).

1. Present government policy is discriminatory and unfair.

2. It contravenes Human Rights (Family Life).

3. It uses an unfair and unreasonable 'one size fits all' system. (Filipinas being required to take an English test, when they are educated in English in their country, for instance)....just some examples.

As on all of these radio programmes, be prepared to be rushed along and have to put up with foolish and ignorant questioning.

Take and keep control.

If you feel that you are being led down a path of their choosing, don't be afraid to point that out and defend your stance.

Speak clearly and in short to-the-point sentences.

People will then remember what YOU said, rather than the typical knee-jerk comments from some of the ignorant tools who will be phoning in. :NoNo:

[andy222]

I have to have all the answers ready Graham just in case they give me what I ask for. And that is a member of the conservative party on the show to answer the questions. I have to think what questions they will ask me as well. As for your points.
Point 1. You are right it is discriminatory. But in what context? There answer will be the european union.
Point 2. The government has already ruled out the Human Rights act by saying if you dont meet the requirements you cant enter the country. (sneaky I know but thats what they have done).
Point 3 is a valid point. I could respond in asking. What british guy would go to the philippines and get married to someone who doesnt speak english?.

[lastlid]

And the exhorbitant visa fees that are twice the amount it costs to process them.

[lastlid]

Andy, what is the exact core of the part of the show that you are participating in? Is there a title to it?

[grahamw48]

Andy.

It doesn't matter what the government's defence is. - Doesn't mean they're right, or being reasonable.

YOU are expressing YOUR opinion.

If they are stupid enough to mention the EU, well then off you go ....WHAT IF YOU WERE LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE A CITIZEN OF ANOTHER EU MEMBER COUNTRY WISHING TO BRING YOUR FILIPINA FIANCEE OR SPOUSE TO THE UK ??? :angry:

[grahamw48]

And the exhorbitant visa fees that are twice the amount it costs to process them.

No point mate.

We don't know what it actually costs them...and never will.

What really needs to be debated is whether or not the rules are REASONABLE and FAIR...as with all Human Rights and discrimination issues. (IMO)

[andy222]

I agree Graham they are not right thats why I am going on there. I will make my point but at the same time I dont want to end up a laughing stock in fact I want to tie them up in knots.

[lastlid]

No point mate.

We don't know what it actually costs them...and never will.

What really needs to be debated is whether or not the rules are REASONABLE and FAIR...as with all Human Rights and discrimination issues.

I thought I saw a document posted by Joe Bloggs that said they were twice the cost...a few months back now. I don't know if I could find it easily. It was a government document.

[andy222]

Its like my mp said. These rules should not apply to hard working uk citizens. Reading between the lines Im guessing that he meant hard working white uk citizens. I might be wrong though. At the end of the day we all know why these rules were bought out.

[grahamw48]

@ lastlid:

Try proving it.

Just opening a can of worms, ending up with the UKBA 'creating' some figures showing what a loss they're making out of the visas. :rolleyes:

[grahamw48]

Its like my mp said. These rules should not apply to hard working uk citizens. Reading between the lines Im guessing that he meant hard working white uk citizens. I might be wrong though. At the end of the day we all know why these rules were bought out.

Andy...only people who earn more than £18,600 a year are working hard enough. :NoNo:

[lastlid]

All the evidence one needs is in the document here....2nd page...written by Damian Green...
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/news/wms-fees-feb-2012.pdf

He also has openly said that some visas are charged over the cost....so they aren't hiding it.



"Fees will increase by only 2 per cent in the majority of cases, but there will be higher increases on certain routes." I.E. the family routes....

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/2012/february/21-new-immigration-fees-proposed


It was plastered through the press aswell I seem to recall. On fairness, I don't think that is fair. Our visas fees are subsidising other things / services / fees or whatever.

[andy222]

Thats another thing I want to bring up the ECO in the philippines whoever it is is a disgrace.

[lastlid]

All the evidence one needs is in the document here....2nd page...written by Damian Green...
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/news/wms-fees-feb-2012.pdf

He also has openly said that some visas are charged over the cost....so they aren't hiding it.



"Fees will increase by only 2 per cent in the majority of cases, but there will be higher increases on certain routes." I.E. the family routes....

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/2012/february/21-new-immigration-fees-proposed


It was plastered through the press aswell I seem to recall. On fairness, I don't think that is fair. Our visas fees are subsidising other things / services / fees or whatever.

Take a printout of that Andy (you were asking for supporting documents).

[Arthur Little]

And the exhorbitant visa fees that are twice the amount it costs to process them.

AND yet ... FREE of charge to partners of *non-British Europeans exercising *THEIR so-called "Treaty Rights"!!! :cwm23:

[lastlid]

Thats another thing I want to bring up the ECO in the philippines whoever it is is a disgrace.

Yes. The mistakes Andy. Cant organise a few beers in a brewery.

[andy222]

Take a printout of that Andy (you were asking for supporting documents).

I will do Ian.

[andy222]

AND yet ... FREE of charge to partners of *non-British Europeans exercising *THEIR so-called "Treaty Rights"!!! :cwm23:

Thanks Arthur we already know this but they will just keep blaming the fact that their hands are tied on that subject.

[lastlid]

I will do Ian.

Andy, where did you get "Ian" from? :icon_lol:

[andy222]

Sorry mate I thought that was your name.:doh

[lastlid]

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/news/wms-fees-feb-2012.pdf

4th page in. Unit cost for ILR posted : £255. Price charged : £991. Whats fair about that especially if it takes 3 months.

That's one hell of a markup.

[lastlid]

Sorry mate I thought that was your name.:doh

No problem. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

All the evidence one needs is in the document here....2nd page...written by Damian Green...
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/news/wms-fees-feb-2012.pdf

He also has openly said that some visas are charged over the cost....so they aren't hiding it.



"Fees will increase by only 2 per cent in the majority of cases, but there will be higher increases on certain routes." I.E. the family routes....

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/2012/february/21-new-immigration-fees-proposed


It was plastered through the press aswell I seem to recall. On fairness, I don't think that is fair. Our visas fees are subsidising other things / services / fees or whatever.

I don't think that is going to win much sympathy with decision-makers though.

FAIRNESS and REASONABLENESS:

We live in a country that gathers massive amounts of information and statistics about its residents and immigrants...all stored on computers and easily accessed.

1. How many Filipinos have been convicted of criminal offences of any kind in this country, compared with OTHER Asians ?

2. What is the divorce rate for Filipino/UK marriages compared to that of the indigenous population ?

3. How many of these marriages have been found to be SHAM marriages compared to other ASIAN/mixed couples ?

4 As above, but found to be FORCED marriages ?

5. How many Filipinos are in employment and contributing to the public purse, as opposed to other Asians ?

6. How many Filipinos have asked for the services of an interpreter ?

7. How many Filipinos have had to be removed from this country compared to other nationalities ?

8. How many Fil/UK couples are claiming benefits compared to other Asian families ?

9. How many Fil/UK couples are accommodated in public housing compared to other Asian families ?

10. How many Filipinos require special provisions to be made for schooling and places of worship compared to other Asian communities ?


The UKBA's entry requirements for citizens of the Philippines are total bullshit, and in the case of Settlement Visas the criteria should include the likelihood of the applicant being able to integrate into and to contribute to our society and its traditional way of life.

There should be a POINTS-BASED system taking into account the various factors which may affect the above in either a positive or negative way.

If the govt and the UKBA are to be allowed to discriminate in the way they have chosen to, then let it be based on FACTS and reality.

[andy222]

Have you got your list of ironies lined up? Working for the NHS, daughter in the army etc etc

Yes mate I sent a attachment to the radio station pointing all that out. I think that is when they became interested.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[andy222]

Thanks Graham. I will ask (if they dont kick me off first.). :icon_lol: and if they give me enough airtime.

[Arthur Little]

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/news/wms-fees-feb-2012.pdf

4th page in. Unit cost for ILR posted : Whats fair about that especially if it takes 3 months.

:gp: ... plus the recent much-debated surcharge imposed on applicants who [naturally] prefer not to wait that long!

[lastlid]

:gp: ... plus the recent much-debated surcharge imposed on applicants who [naturally] prefer not to wait that long!

Yes. Exactly. Given this info, its all a great ripoff. Particularly felt by those least able to pay.

[andy222]

Good point Arthur.

[bigmarco]

Good for you Andy.
As everyone has said, get your main points down on a piece of paper.
The system is discriminatory. If you were Polish and working here you could bring your filipino wife and child here and pay nothing for the Visa.
The £18600 is not right or fair as there regional pay differences in the country and living costs vary so much depending on where you live.
I would also mention how you work in the NHS and your daughter serves this country in Afghanistan and yet this same government is putting up barriers to your right to a family life.
The bottom line my friend is you are British and in love with a woman whom you have married and want to spend the rest of your life with and this government is preventing you from doing this.
As a listener I'm sure it would appeal more to me to hear the emotional side to this story. A husband and wife very much in love kept apart by ridiculous Government Policies.
Best of Luck matey :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[andy222]

Yes. Given this info, its all a great ripoff. Particularly felt by those least able to pay.

Thats if they grant you visa in the first place. Look at what bigmarco has been through.

[lastlid]

As a listener I'm sure it would appeal more to me to hear the emotional side to this story. A husband and wife very much in love kept apart by ridiculous Government Policies.


Yes, the story has many sides to it and the emotional side may be the best route or at least the opening gambit, especially if the time that Andy gets is limited.

[grahamw48]

Yes, the story has many sides to it and the emotional side may be the best route or at least the opening gambit, especially if the time that Andy gets is limited.

I agree.

It's also an angle popular with the media...the people who REALLY control this country. :rolleyes:

[Arthur Little]

If you were Polish and working here you could bring your filipino wife and child here and pay nothing for the Visa.

Precisely what I implied ALREADY in #28! :yeahthat:'s continually been a SORE point with MANY here. How about OUR Human Rights??? After all ... :Britain: is EVERY BIT as much a part of the EU as ANY of the OTHER Member countries.

[andy222]

Thanks guys all your comments have been copied and pasted and printed out. Before I go on the show I want to make sure that this is not just a phone in. I want someone who will be there or on the phone to answer our questions. ie someone from the ukba and a government official. Having said that it might take some time to arrange. After all said and done they want me on the show so they should grant my requests. If not I will go to the papers and hopefully cause a right stink.

[Arthur Little]

Here's wishing you the very best of luck with your radio interview, Andy. We're ALL behind you ... believe me. :xxgrinning--00xx3: Shame the programme isn't being broadcast Nationwide!

[andy222]

Thanks Arthur as long as I get our points across thats all that matters.

[NotYou]

Can anyone see this from the point of view of the 'bureaucrats'? Perhaps a guideline minimum wage is considered necessary to support a family, and not to be a burden on other taxpayers through tax credits and benefits? Yes okay, I'll get my coat...

[grahamw48]

Yes, of course....but it's DISPOSABLE income that is important.

What about someone from say Poland, who is entitled to bring his Filipina wife here with no questions asked ? :NoNo:

Don't forget also that a Spouse is permitted to work as soon as she arrives anyway, so their figures and assumptions are bollox.

[NotYou]

No need to shout man, like wow. Not sure about the bit about the Polish man and Pinay wife, depends on her current nationality status I suspect?

Get a job as soon as she arrives? My own dear wife took 15 years to get a job, why work when some sucker (husband) pays for everything?

[tiger31]

I want to know why people from pakistan and bangladesh etc are allowed in without speaking english yet philippinos must speak english discrimmination if you ask me .

[lastlid]

Can anyone see this from the point of view of the 'bureaucrats'? Perhaps a guideline minimum wage is considered necessary to support a family, and not to be a burden on other taxpayers through tax credits and benefits? Yes okay, I'll get my coat...




This is the kind of question you are likely to get Andy....I would bet on it being the first question you will get.

[andy222]

Yes mate I know. But the poster does not know the circumstances. Anyway I dont expect support from everyone. I just want to get my point across.:xxgrinning--00xx3: And if I did the same job in kent where the poster says he comes from I would make the minimum income threshold.

[Iani]

I would think the most obvious question the public might ask is -

Why should anyone just be able to bring in anyone? We're overcrowded, them immigrants are taking all our jobs/women/sheep

Why don't you go live over there then? Why must it always be them coming here!

And all this, you can be sure is down to one section of the community who has not integrated, who have caused problems and who have abused the system for decades. Due to this experience, some public opinion isn't that sympathetic in general.

If anyone ever asks me, I tell them the simple truth, which is that I can't go over there because I wouldn't get a work permit, I have family obligations here etc.

Good luck anyway and hope you can really get your point across

[andy222]

Dont worry Iani I have all the answers.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

Then after this Andy, maybe we will see you on Question Time? :D

[andy222]

Yes I will have the back up of Johnny Rotten.:laugher:

[grahamw48]

No need to shout man, like wow. Not sure about the bit about the Polish man and Pinay wife, depends on her current nationality status I suspect?

Get a job as soon as she arrives? My own dear wife took 15 years to get a job, why work when some sucker (husband) pays for everything?

It's called EMPHASIS ...on ONE word. :rolleyes:

I think you were looking for an argument, but I'm not in the mood this minute. :NoNo:

Sunday morning and I've just got out of bed...might turn into:


.
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/1143/overkill0170734.gif
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2035/scratchchin1851453.gif
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2035/scratchchin1851453.gif

[stevewool]

Get a job as soon as she arrives? My own dear wife took 15 years to get a job, why work when some sucker (husband) pays for everything?

if you think you being a husband and a sucker thats your choice, i am a husband, and no sucker, but each to there own

[andy222]

Hes just a wind up merchant steve. Take no notice.

[Ako Si Jamie]

Here's wishing you the very best of luck with your radio interview, Andy. We're ALL behind you ... believe me. :xxgrinning--00xx3: Shame the programme isn't being broadcast Nationwide!Some of their programmes are recorded and available to listen to on the BBC WM website.

[Arthur Little]

No need to shout man, like wow. Not sure about the bit about the Polish man and Pinay wife, depends on her current nationality status I suspect?

Get a job as soon as she arrives? My own dear wife took 15 years to get a job, why work when some sucker (husband) pays for everything?

If I were to be consulted on which of our members was most likely to "Win Friends and Influence People", :rolleyes: I'd have to say ... 'Not You'!

[Arthur Little]

Yes okay, I'll get my coat...

... good :idea: ! BEST you've HAD to date! :Wave:

[andy222]

If I were to be consulted on which of our members was most likely to "Win Friends and Influence People", :rolleyes: I'd have to say ... 'Not You'!

Brilliant Arthur.:laugher:

[andy222]

Some of their programmes are recorded and available to listen to on the BBC WM website.

No pressure then?:icon_lol:

[Ako Si Jamie]

If I were to be consulted on which of our members was most likely to "Win Friends and Influence People", :rolleyes: I'd have to say ... 'Not You'! :laugher:


No pressure then?:icon_lol:Don't feel pressured. I think everyone admires you for doing it. :xxgrinning--00xx3: