My Fiances (fiancee) visa was refused

[yellowcloud]

My Fiancées Visa was refused and to say we are devastated is an understatement ...

She is going to scan and copy me the refusal notice in a few mins, but has told me a little about why it was refused.

My FIance said that the ECO was not satisfied that we are in a subsisting relationship and that we are not party to a marriage of convenience to facilitate her entry into the UK.
Article 8 DOES NOT apply as it is a qualified right in order to control immigration and there is no reason why family life can not be attained by your Fiancée visiting you.

[Terpe]

Sorry to hear that sad news.
You probably need to share the refusal notice asap with your immigration adviser in order to plan next steps.

[melovesengland]

So sorry to hear about the bad news. :(

[yellowcloud]

Yes we had an advisor to help with the application, but only paid for that. If we want help with an appeal we have to pay an additional £1,300. So we are on our own :(

[yellowcloud]

I am not satisfied that you and your sponsor are not party to a marriage of convenience to facilitate your entry into the UK. I am not satisfied that you and your partner are in a subsisting relationship or that you intend to live permanently together after the marriage.

I have considered your application under article 8 ECHR. I am reminded that the UK is entitled to control the entry of Foreign nationals into its territory and is not obliged to give effect to the choice a couple make as to where the wish to live. You have provided no evidence there are insurmountable obstacles to prevent your sponsor from relocating to your home country to enjoy family life or to continue visiting to you there. I am not prepared to accept that Article 8 (1) is engaged. Even if it is, I do not accept this decision constitutes interference with Article 8, as this is a qualified right. Your Fiancée can continue to visit you and contact you and this decision does not interfere with such contact.
Additionally I am satisfied that this decision is justified and proportionate in the interests of maintaining an effective immigration control and the economic well being of the country.

I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied that on the balance of probabilities you meet all of the requirements of the immigration rules.

[yellowcloud]

I am not satisfied that you and your sponsor are not party to a marriage of convenience to facilitate your entry into the UK. I am not satisfied that you and your partner are in a subsisting relationship or that you intend to live permanently together after the marriage.

We provided loads of evidence of daily communication via skype, emails, calls etc!!!!


I have considered your application under article 8 ECHR. I am reminded that the UK is entitled to control the entry of Foreign nationals into its territory and is not obliged to give effect to the choice a couple make as to where the wish to live. You have provided no evidence there are insurmountable obstacles to prevent your sponsor from relocating to your home country to enjoy family life or to continue visiting to you there. I am not prepared to accept that Article 8 (1) is engaged. Even if it is, I do not accept this decision constitutes interference with Article 8, as this is a qualified right. Your Fiancée can continue to visit you and contact you and this decision does not interfere with such contact.
Additionally I am satisfied that this decision is justified and proportionate in the interests of maintaining an effective immigration control and the economic well being of the country.

We submitted medical evidence to prove I can not live outside of the UK. I am convinced they threw half of our documents in the bin as they also did not give back some of the original documents such as My Doctors letter stating why I can not live outside of the UK, my introduction letter and some other documents also. Why do you think they did that ? will this make things harder for us in appeal ? we made a photo copy of everything we submitted including numbering the pages before we submitted the bundle to them. How can we prove we did submit those documents?


I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied that on the balance of probabilities you meet all of the requirements of the immigration rules.

[Rhose]

:NoNo: :NoNo: sorry to hear that. Don't lose your hope...

[Terpe]

Yellowcloud, as Rhose says, don't lose your hope.
There will be the opportunity to appeal.
Bigmarco faced issues that didn't seem credible and now has won through.

Just look at what the refusal states, then look at the immigration requirements for proving genuine relationship and intention to marry and compare objectively with what was submitted.
It may be that you will be eligible for legal aid.

Just don't panic.

Yellowcloud, what nationality is your fiance(e) ?
How many times have you met? and when was the last time you met?

[PAT]

Very sorry to read this, dont lose hope...

[joebloggs]

How many times have you met? and when was the last time you met?

if i remember correctly you were worried about the finance side, as Terpe has posted how many times did you meet??

[bigmarco]

Hi Yellowcloud. So sorry to read of your refusal. Firstly £1300 seems a hell of alot to charge for submitting an application, more so when it's unsuccessful.
The others are right you must not lose hope.
You seem to have been refused in only 1 area in that they are not satisfied that you are not party to a marriage of convenience. As Terpe says look at the requirements objectively and ask yourself have you satisfied them.
Have you Met
How many Times
Did you supply photographs of you together.
I understand how your feeling at the moment but dont panic and stay focussed. All is not lost.
If your satisfied that you met the requirements then you need to act quickly. A letter of reconsideration is worth a go and dont delay on the appeal as you have limited time.
I wish you well.

[yellowcloud]

Thanks for that, can you tell me if this is the right appeal form we fill in?? does anyone know???

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCTS/GetForm.do?court_forms_id=2882

[bigmarco]

Doesn't look right as it says appeal against a decision pre December 2011

[yellowcloud]

You seem to have been refused in only 1 area in that they are not satisfied that you are not party to a marriage of convenience.

Do you think thats a good thing we have only been refused in one area? as opposed to more, so we have to prove in appeal that we are a genuine couple?



Have you Met

Yes we have, we spent a short holiday together in France. As she couldnt get a vistors visa for the UK and I can not travel well because of some medical conditions I have.



How many Times

Would have been many many times if she hadn't been refused a UK vist visa but as I can not travel almost at all, the most I have been able to do is get to France and have a short Holiday together there. The requirements are to have only met at least once though and I was reading about people who were approved with an arranged marriage who had only met once too?

This is what the laywer wrote in the letter to the ECO.

Paragraph (iii) Intention to live together as husband and wife after the marriage
Our client and her partner intend to live together after the marriage in the UK as husband and wife. This is clearly evidenced by their supporting letters and the supporting letters from their families (pages 1,2,5-6 and 74) . Further evidence of their intentions and commitment to one another can be seen from their contact with each other in the form of telephone calls, emails and
skype conversations (pages 108-213).

The case of Goudey (subsisting marriage – evidence) Sudan [2012] UKUT 00041 (IAC) confirms that the decision maker must have due regard to the evidence in the application form and submitted in support of the
GA (“Subsisting” marriage) Ghana * [2006] UKAIT 00046; [2006] Imm AR 54. That case states that the rules only require that there is a real relationship as opposed to the merely formal one of a marriage which has not been terminated. It states “where there is a legally recognised marriage and the parties who are living apart both want to be together and live together as husband and wife, we cannot see that more is required to demonstrate that the marriage is subsisting and thus qualifies under the Immigration Rules”. Whilst the case relates specifically to marriage cases the principle is equally applicable to the requirements to live together as husband and wife after the marriage in a fiancée application.


The ECO wrote as follows



I am not satisfied that you and your sponsor are not party to a marriage of convenience to facilitate your entry into the United Kingdom and I am not satisfied that you and your sponsor are in a subsisting relationship or that you intend to live together permanently with your sponsor after the marriage (i) (iii)


Did you supply photographs of you together.

Yes we supplied 8 of us together and with her sister, cousin.

We met last in April

The ECO also states

We need to appeal but does anyone know the right appeal form that we use for me to appeal in the UK please? Anyone have a link?

[Terpe]

........We need to appeal but does anyone know the right appeal form that we use for me to appeal in the UK please? Anyone have a link?

It's your fiancee who will appeal.
She will be sent a formal notice of refusal together with the form and the instructions.
The appeal must be lodged within the timeframe mentioned.

A letter from your fiancee to the Embassy for the attention of the ECM requesting a reconsideration is always a good idea too. Some consider in a bit 'belt and braces' but oftentimes can yield a good outcome.
The letter will need to clearly state why the judgement of the refusing ECO is in error.

[rhaichard]

sorry to hear about your refusal :NoNo:
if you know that you're right then fight what's yours ...

[travina]

I am not satisfied that you and your sponsor are not party to a marriage of convenience to facilitate your entry into the UK.

is it appropriate for the ECO to say this? as I came across a ukba rule a few months back stating something that if the ECO would use this to refuse an application that the ECO have to prove it and then the applicant would challenge it after its been proven by the ECO. not sure really but it sounded like that.

[filbrit]

Sorry to hear that your chance to be with your fiancee is delayed.

I wonder if you also attached proof of your wedding plans here: e.g. correspondence (1) with Registrar's Office on booking of wedding date (2) inquiries on possible wedding venues. It is not a requirement but it won't hurt submitting such.

[joebloggs]

is it appropriate for the ECO to say this? as I came across a ukba rule a few months back stating something that if the ECO would use this to refuse an application that the ECO have to prove it and then the applicant would challenge it after its been proven by the ECO. not sure really but it sounded like that.

for 'marriage of convenience' yes they can and do, and its about the only reason they can use to refuse someone a Family permit but what evidence do they have to refuse her? they shouldn't be able to if they do not have evidence it is a 'marriage of convenience'

[yellowcloud]

Thanks all

[yellowcloud]

as I came across a ukba rule a few months back stating something that if the ECO would use this to refuse an application that the ECO have to prove it and then the applicant would challenge it after its been proven by the ECO. not sure really but it sounded like that.

Does anyone have a link for that? could this be something I could use?

[yellowcloud]

So who is the burden of proof on for if the ECO refuses a Fiancee Visa? The aplicant or the ECO?

I was reading this

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC/2012/00038_ukut_iac_2012_lp_greece.html

i) There is no burden at the outset of an application on a claimant to demonstrate that a marriage to an EEA national is not one of convenience.

ii) IS (marriages of convenience) Serbia [2008] UKAIT 31 establishes only that there is an evidential burden on the claimant to address evidence justifying reasonable suspicion that the marriage is entered into for the predominant purpose of securing residence rights.

And also

http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2012/02/07/new-case-law-on-marriages/

I have been advised to get statements from her family members who have not already provided these which would confirm that you are in a genuine relationship. These could be sent with the appeal (which would be further evidence which would enable the appeal to be overturned) or you can submit them for the appeal. The same evidence from my parents and other family members of yours may be of the same assistance. You might want to include evidence of where your parents have spoken to my Fiancée on the phone or where you have spoken to her parents of family members also.

You may also want to have your parents given evidence to confirm what they know of your relationship and their opinion of how genuine it is and to confirm any contact they have had directly with my Fiancée.