Drugs: let’s be softer on our youngsters

[Neu75]

A very sensible perspective from a father :xxgrinning--00xx3:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9344840/Drugs-lets-be-softer-on-our-youngsters.html

[lastlid]

A very sensible perspective from a father :xxgrinning--00xx3:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9344840/Drugs-lets-be-softer-on-our-youngsters.html

"After all, if every young man who had dabbled with drugs had felt the fullest penalty of the law, then David Cameron would not be prime minister nor Barack Obama US president."

How very true.

[lastlid]

I am dead against drug abuse. But feel that the focus should be on those that sell them in the first place. Those that advocate "stringing up" the users / abusers forget that they could so easily have a member of their family that is either unlucky enough or indeed foolishly enough to consume them.

Anyway, the prisons are full and drug abuse is a wider issue than we think. A different approach is needed for that reason alone.

[imagine]

its not so much the street seller, they themselves are the lower end of the chain (victims users)
go further up you may be surprised who you find up there at the top :D

and thats why it continues

[lastlid]

its not so much the street seller, they themselves are the lower end of the chain (victims users)
go further up you may be surprised who you find up there at the top :D

and thats why it continues

Yes. There are no social boundaries when it comes to drugs.

[Dedworth]

So let's be tougher on the dealers and execute them it would free up prison space and reduce the supply of drugs on the street

[lastlid]

So let's be tougher on the dealers and execute them it would free up prison space and reduce the supply of drugs on the street

You are right. There is not an easy solution.

[imagine]

So let's be tougher on the dealers and execute them it would free up prison space and reduce the supply of drugs on the street

lets make sure its the dealers at the top, for all we know they might be made up of mp's millionairs,influential persons, after all who finances it all, it sure aint the little man

[lastlid]

lets make sure its the dealers at the top, for all we know they might be made up of mp's millionairs,influential persons, after all who finances it all, it sure aint the little man

I know that in Aberdeen, the police find it hard to catch the serious dealers. They can be very elusive. Probably the same across the country. You would be amazed at where drugs are being sold through the city. And places in the shire too.

[imagine]

iv had druggies (cannabis users ) tell that many of their friends in the same game , when caught with x amount, then comes court day, the amount read out is much less than was confiscated:Erm: but obviously they dont complain at the inaccuracies because a lighter sentance can be a bennefit,

any guesses what happened to the rest :D

[lastlid]

iv had druggies (cannabis users ) tell that many of their friends in the same game , when caught with x amount, then comes court day, the amount read out is much less than was confiscated:Erm: but obviously they dont complain at the inaccuracies because a lighter sentance can be a bennefit,

any guesses what happened to the rest :D

Well. I know what you mean. Funny but not funny.

Its all a bigger problem than some people know. If we locked em all up or shot them then.....we would cut the population in half and perhaps the government wouldnt be so bothered about our filipina's visas :D

[imagine]

Well. I know what you mean. Funny but not funny.

Its all a bigger problem than some people know. If we locked em all up or shot them then.....we would cut the population in half and perhaps the government wouldnt be so bothered about our filipina's visas :D

yeah but who's gonna replace government while there doing time:D:icon_lol: perhaps they can work from the cell :D

[lastlid]

yeah but who's gonna replace government while there doing time:D:icon_lol: perhaps they can work from the cell :D

:xxgrinning--00xx3: :D

[Arthur Little]

yeah but who's gonna replace government while there doing time:D:icon_lol: perhaps they can work from the cell :D

Ah ... now ... that reminds me :rolleyes:

Did you hear about the lonely prisoner?
He's in his cell. :bigcry:

[joebloggs]

"After all, if every young man who had dabbled with drugs had felt the fullest penalty of the law, then David Cameron would not be prime minister nor Barack Obama US president."

How very true.

all the more reasons why there should be no changes and make the laws softer.

lets see if he says its was a sensible approach when his kids become addicts :doh

[gWaPito]

its not so much the street seller, they themselves are the lower end of the chain (victims users)
go further up you may be surprised who you find up there at the top :D

and thats why it continues

Top of the chain being who else but ferrari drivers:rolleyes:

As for going soft on the drug taking kids...spare a thought for the victims of some of these drug taking kids....you only gotta look at the papers...houses getting broken into...the elderly getting mugged and sometimes .....string them up I say

[gWaPito]

Well. I know what you mean. Funny but not funny.

Its all a bigger problem than some people know. If we locked em all up or shot them then.....we would cut the population in half and perhaps the government wouldnt be so bothered about our filipina's visas :D
Steady on....half the population:doh

The kids may all be junkies where you are from....definitely not where im from:NoNo:

I'd pack away your broad brush for another day Lastlid :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[imagine]

Top of the chain being who else but ferrari drivers:rolleyes:

As for going soft on the drug taking kids...spare a thought for the victims of some of these drug taking kids....you only gotta look at the papers...houses getting broken into...the elderly getting mugged and sometimes .....string them up I say

ok leave them at the top string up the young uns , then those at the top can start all over again:Erm:

[imagine]

Steady on....half the population:doh

The kids may all be junkies where you are from....definitely not where im from:NoNo:

I'd pack away your broad brush for another day Lastlid :xxgrinning--00xx3:

you be surprised who around you quietly smoke their weed, you'd never know it

[imagine]

Top of the chain being who else but ferrari drivers:rolleyes:

As for going soft on the drug taking kids...spare a thought for the victims of some of these drug taking kids....you only gotta look at the papers...houses getting broken into...the elderly getting mugged and sometimes .....string them up I say

not all drug taking kids are house breaking, and mugging the elderly,, who is it has that wide brush:Erm:

[London_Manila]

The problem is that there is a big demand for most of these drugs
Movie stars, catwalk models, music industry, media types, and the most of the square mile seem to operate on cocaine
I dont think the dealers are forcing anyone to buy their items and if anything they cant supply enough of it

I wonder when they are going to win this WAR ON DRUGS anyway - not in my lifetime thats for sure

[lastlid]

Steady on....half the population:doh

The kids may all be junkies where you are from....definitely not where im from:NoNo:

I'd pack away your broad brush for another day Lastlid :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Yes, I was exaggerating when I said half.

Its everywhere. You just dont know it. Take a closer look some day and I am sure you will find that it goes on right under your nose, in your own back yard.

[lastlid]

Steady on....half the population:doh

The kids may all be junkies where you are from....definitely not where im from:NoNo:

I'd pack away your broad brush for another day Lastlid :xxgrinning--00xx3:


What is it that you smoke? Must be good stuff.

I don't think there are many places in the country where there isn't significant drug abuse. I would be very surprised if your neighbourhood is the exception. Have a look in your local paper. You will see many drug related stories each week. What this means is that it exists. What it doesn't mean is that it is being halted. What the public tends to be aware of is just the tip of a larger iceberg.

Drug abuse knows no geographical or social boundaries.

[Neu75]

all the more reasons why there should be no changes and make the laws softer.

lets see if he says its was a sensible approach when his kids become addicts :doh

I think you'll find that most kids use "recreational" drugs and only a fraction become addicts.

[Neu75]

not all drug taking kids are house breaking, and mugging the elderly,, who is it has that wide brush:Erm:

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Neu75]

The problem is that there is a big demand for most of these drugs
Movie stars, catwalk models, music industry, media types, and the most of the square mile seem to operate on cocaine
I dont think the dealers are forcing anyone to buy their items and if anything they cant supply enough of it

I wonder when they are going to win this WAR ON DRUGS anyway - not in my lifetime thats for sure

Well written :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

Well written :xxgrinning--00xx3:


I wonder when they are going to win this WAR ON DRUGS anyway - not in my lifetime thats for sure

And I second that, I am sorry to say. Sad, but true. Drug abuse is part of our society, like alcoholism, overeating and the smoking of cigarettes. We seem to be winning the war on the consumption of tobacco products but it has taken soooo long to get this far, however there is a lot more hard work to be done with the remaining issues.

[lastlid]

A 2007 story but as far as I know, no different in 2012.

And it doesn't specify that Wiltshire is the exception.

"Drug-related crime costs England and Wales more than £13 billion a year and damages the health of hundreds of thousands of addicts, according to a report.

The UK has the highest levels of addiction and multi-drug consumption and the second-highest rate of drug-related deaths in Europe, the document claimed."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549028/Britain-has-worst-drug-addiction-rate-in-Europe.html

Also below:

"Britain has the highest level of problem drug use and the second highest level of drug related deaths in Europe, according to a report by the independent UK Drug Policy Commission.

There has also been a 68 percent increase in the number of recorded drug offences in the last ten years according to the Home Office.

Shadow home secretary Dominic Grieve attacked the government, saying: "No amount of Home Office spin on this year's figures can hide the fact that class A drug use and drug crime have risen under this government."

"

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2008/10/31/uk-drug-abuse-worst-in-europe


"Scotland has again topped the world league for cocaine consumption.

Figures published by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) show 3.9% of Scottish residents aged between 16 and 64 used the drug in the past year.

That was a higher proportion than in any other country and compares to 2.5% for England and Wales.

The figures also showed Scotland with a rate of heroin use twice that of the rest of the United Kingdom."



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-13898046

[joebloggs]

I think you'll find that most kids use "recreational" drugs and only a fraction become addicts.

spend some time in any A&E see how many 'recreational' drug takers turn up there out of their heads :doh

my misses has to deal with them, many are abusive, violent. who wants to try and treat 'people' like that ???

[lastlid]

spend some time in any A&E see how many 'recreational' drug takers turn up there out of their heads :doh

my misses has to deal with them, many are abusive, violent. who wants to try and treat 'people' like that ???

I know. You are right Joe. ( Though same for alcohol related incidents ).

Its a big problem. But its how to deal with it that is the problem. Society in Britain hasn't found a way yet.

[joebloggs]

why the :censored: does anyone want to take drugs or get drunk, is life that bad for them :NoNo:

i know some nhs staff give them some :furious3: back, wasting their time and having to put up with these :censored:

[lastlid]

why the :censored: does anyone want to take drugs or get drunk, is life that bad for them :NoNo:

i know some nhs staff give them some :furious3: back, wasting their time and having to put up with these :censored:

Again, I agree with you. But we aren't all the same. The reasons for some people ending up abusing drugs or abusing alcohol are wide and varied. For some it is indeed a form of escapism.

I first witnessed drug taking at university 30 + years ago. I don't think it is any different now, from what I gather.

"Universities told to consider dope tests as student use of 'smart drugs' soars
Cambridge scientist calls for ethical debate on drugs bought on internet that boost alertness and attention"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/feb/21/smart-drugs-students-universities

The whole issue is bigger than we think.....

"One in seven Cambridge students 'has sold drugs to help pay their way through university'"

"Cocaine was the most frequently used Class A drug, with a quarter of students saying that they had snorted it at some point."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2106250/One-seven-Cambridge-students-sold-drugs-help-pay-way-university.html#ixzz26ioEovz5

How many of our politicians are from Oxbridge?

[lastlid]

Drugs policies are not working, believe 75% of MPs

"More than three-quarters of MPs believe the UK's drug policies are not working, according to a poll for a respected commission poised to deliver a landmark report assessing the evidence for continued prohibition.

The poll's publication comes ahead of the release of several major reports into the future of UK drug policy that will ensure the debate about reforming the country's laws becomes a key issue for MPs for the rest of the year.

The poll, conducted by ComRes for the UK Drug Policy Commission (UKDPC), found that 77% of MPs believed the UK's current policies were ineffective in tackling the problems caused by illegal drugs.

The poll of 150 MPs, weighted to reflect the composition of the Commons, found no significant difference between coalition and Labour MPs, with only 18% of MPs from coalition parties agreeing that current policies are working.

It also revealed that MPs had deep concerns about how drug policy is formulated. Two-thirds of those polled said a change in how policy was made was needed to tackle the UK's drug problems effectively. More than three-quarters of the MPs said that drug policy needed to draw much more on evidence and research".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/sep/08/mps-drugs-policies-not-working

I like the comment from Blankreg

"My local LibDem MP buys from the same dealer as me and he is very anti-drugs indeed."

[Neu75]

spend some time in any A&E see how many 'recreational' drug takers turn up there out of their heads :doh

my misses has to deal with them, many are abusive, violent. who wants to try and treat 'people' like that ???

Still think Alcohol is the problem. At least the nurses I know have said this.

[lastlid]

Still think Alcohol is the problem. At least the nurses I know have said this.

I have heard police officers and staff at A and E say alcohol is a big problem.

Of course, what is worse is both drugs and alcohol together.

[Neu75]

why the :censored: does anyone want to take drugs or get drunk, is life that bad for them :NoNo:

i know some nhs staff give them some :furious3: back, wasting their time and having to put up with these :censored:

This is the reality in the UK now but I still think alcohol is the problem. You can see this on the streets every night.
I bet most of the trouble would vanish if there was a way of punishing drunks.
If we all are honest with ourselves, alcohol has made us all do things we'd rather not admit to others.
In my drinking days (a long time ago) I used to regularly see people walking home laughing with a joint as drunks beat each other up senseless outside taxi ranks, takeaways and pubs/clubs :NoNo:

[Neu75]

Again, I agree with you. But we aren't all the same. The reasons for some people ending up abusing drugs or abusing alcohol are wide and varied. For some it is indeed a form of escapism.

I first witnessed drug taking at university 30 + years ago. I don't think it is any different now, from what I gather.

"Universities told to consider dope tests as student use of 'smart drugs' soars
Cambridge scientist calls for ethical debate on drugs bought on internet that boost alertness and attention"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/feb/21/smart-drugs-students-universities

The whole issue is bigger than we think.....

"One in seven Cambridge students 'has sold drugs to help pay their way through university'"

"Cocaine was the most frequently used Class A drug, with a quarter of students saying that they had snorted it at some point."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2106250/One-seven-Cambridge-students-sold-drugs-help-pay-way-university.html#ixzz26ioEovz5

How many of our politicians are from Oxbridge?

I couldn't agree more :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Michael Parnham]

Well! I must have lived a very sheltered life, cos I've never seen or knowingly known anyone who has taken drugs, and nobody has ever approached me to try and sell me any drugs. Probably its all done in pubs and that's possibly why I've never come across drugs. I don't drink.

[lastlid]

Well! I must have lived a very sheltered life, cos I've never seen or knowingly known anyone who has taken drugs, and nobody has ever approached me to try and sell me any drugs. Probably its all done in pubs and that's possibly why I've never come across drugs. I don't drink.

Michael. You and me both. I really had no idea. But I know different now. I was quite stunned when I realised what I now know. I hadn't got a scoobee, except witnessing it at university.

Don't forget, these people don't want to be seen as if they are then they risk being nabbed. So they are quite covert about it all. Thats why the police find it difficult to stop.

[Dedworth]

Do drug dealers provide any benefits to society ?

Other than their wives and offspring probably having to turn to state benefits are there any other downsides to the law abiding population/the taxpayer if these vermin were put to death ?

[lastlid]

Do drug dealers provide any benefits to society ?



Answer : No

But refer to my post #32 on Cambridge students above. One in seven are selling. Death Row would be a long one indeed.

[Dedworth]

Employing dozens of executioners and having mass executions say by firing squad would make their stay on death row fairly brief.

[lastlid]

I wonder if Dave will be brave....

"Sir Richard Branson said politicians should ignore newspapers like the Daily Mail, and reform the UK drug laws.

The Virgin group boss said David Cameron had appeared to agree with him 10 years ago - while a backbench MP - and now had to be "brave as prime minister and has to do what is right for the country".

He had appeared before the Commons home affairs committee to say a different approach to drug use in other countries had led to a fall in use."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16702930

[Doc Alan]

My thread on cannabis in January was in the Health Issues section ( http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/35540-Cannabis ) because there are many adverse health consequences of illicit drug use – meaning any drug for which non-medical use has been prohibited.

Those wanting legalisation tend to live at a distance from the reality of the drugs problem they’re commenting upon. While a criminal justice approach may not reduce the level of drugs used, would a marked increase in drug usage NOT occur from legalisation or decriminalisation ? New chemicals regularly emerge which provide “ legal highs “ until they’re banned. Declaring them “ illegal “ doesn’t work – new ones keep appearing. In any case young drug users especially may not have any idea what the substance is they have paid to take. Most drugs are “ cut “ by adding adulterants to increase their volume.

I gave an account of cannabis so recently that there’s little to add, except that starting smoking it in adolescence does seem to be more serious, with an irreversible decline in IQ.

In the UK the Misuse of Drugs Act places drugs into Classes A – C, according to harmfulness attributable when misused. Misuse of Drugs Regulations defines who can supply and possess controlled drugs professionally ( Schedules 1 – 5 ).

The Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency attempts to enforce the Comprehensive Dangerous Drugs Act against the dual challenge of corruption and lack of government resources.

The most commonly used and studied illicit drugs are – in addition to cannabis – amphetamine-type synthetics/stimulants including MDMA ( Ecstasy ) and methamphetamine crystals ( Shabu in the Philippines ) ; cocaine ( an alkaloid from the coca plant ), mostly from South America ; and opioids including derivatives from the poppy such as morphine and heroin, mostly from Afghanistan.
Smoking and alcohol abuse cause more ill health and greater social / economic cost than illicit drugs only because they are more common – but such drugs do affect health in addition to serious crime, disorder, family breakdown and community decay.

Obviously health risks of illicit drug use increase with frequency and quantity of use. Risks of cannabis use are less because it doesn’t produce fatal overdoses and can’t easily be injected. Illicit opioid use is a major cause of mortality from fatal overdose and dependence. HIV/AIDS, hepatitis C and B infections from unsafe injection practices are serious consequences in people injecting drugs, whether opioids, cocaine, or amphetamines. Mental disorders, suicides, violence and road traffic accidents seem to be increased in these users, but to what extent these associations are causal is unclear.

An unintended consequence of criminalisation of drug usage is the inability to collect accurate data for patterns of use and harms. But we do know that cannabis and “ Class A “ drugs ( heroin, cocaine, crack cocaine, and ecstasy ) are widely available in the UK. That includes “ holiday resorts “ such as Scarborough where I observed an increasing problem in recent years, including fatalities ( but never due to cannabis ). The drug problem in the Philippines has similarly increased.

I don’t judge “ lifestyle choices “, whether they be smoking, alcohol abuse, overeating or illicit drug use. There seems no argument that drug dealers should be punished, and more effectively. No matter how drug users are dealt with, there is also no argument that health consequences are serious and need far more resources than currently available. Those include supply of clean needles; drug rehabilitation programmes; opiate substitution treatment ; school, family, and community prevention programmes preventing young people from ever starting illicit drug use.

[lastlid]

David Camerons Policy on Alcohol and Drugs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gO-ZDeo9OA

[lastlid]

...... and need far more resources than currently available

Bang on Doc Alan. Resources are what is required. Resources that the taxpayer isn't prepared to shell out. Except, that in the long run, such an injection of resources would prove to be a canny investment, given the financial consequences to the country of drug and alcohol abuse as things stand.

[lastlid]

Until the taxpayer is prepared to pay for more policing:

"POLICE are seizing just ONE PER CENT of the heroin flooding Scotland’s streets — and cops now admit they’re fighting a losing battle.
Britain spends a whopping £1.5 BILLION a year trying to tackle the evil trade.
But experts claim officers are failing in every attempt to stamp out the scourge of society."

"Detective Chief Constable Gordon Meldrum, of the Scottish Crime & Drug Enforcement Agency, says: “My honest view is that we will not get anywhere close to that. You know we will never have enough law enforcement within the UK to actually stop anywhere near the amount of drugs that actually come into the country.”"

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/scottishnews/3062437/We-will-never-win-war-on-drugs-top-cops-admit.html#ixzz26knPKW8r

[imagine]

Until the taxpayer is prepared to pay for more policing:

"POLICE are seizing just ONE PER CENT of the heroin flooding Scotland’s streets — and cops now admit they’re fighting a losing battle.
Britain spends a whopping £1.5 BILLION a year trying to tackle the evil trade.
But experts claim officers are failing in every attempt to stamp out the scourge of society."

"Detective Chief Constable Gordon Meldrum, of the Scottish Crime & Drug Enforcement Agency, says: “My honest view is that we will not get anywhere close to that. You know we will never have enough law enforcement within the UK to actually stop anywhere near the amount of drugs that actually come into the country.”"

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/scottishnews/3062437/We-will-never-win-war-on-drugs-top-cops-admit.html#ixzz26knPKW8r

of course there fighting a loosing battle and failing, they should leave the streets alone go straight to the heart of the problem , those at the top, whats wrong with gov, are they afraid :Erm:

[lastlid]

Well! I must have lived a very sheltered life, cos I've never seen or knowingly known anyone who has taken drugs, and nobody has ever approached me to try and sell me any drugs. Probably its all done in pubs and that's possibly why I've never come across drugs. I don't drink.

Michael. I used to think this song was about coffee.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVHVvbnmgjM

I bought it many years ago as part of a coffee promotion ( cant recall if it was Maxwell House or not....)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Brown

[Dedworth]

Bang on Doc Alan. Resources are what is required. Resources that the taxpayer isn't prepared to shell out. Except, that in the long run, such an injection of resources would prove to be a canny investment, given the financial consequences to the country of drug and alcohol abuse as things stand.

I'd like to see relatively modest investment in ropes, gallows, bullets, canes etc the deterrent effect obviously works in those countries that are not blighted with illegal drugs and the accompanying crime, social and health issues

[imagine]

Michael. I used to think this song was about coffee.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVHVvbnmgjM

I bought it many years ago as part of a coffee promotion ( cant recall if it was Maxwell House or not....)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Brown

oh and i thought it was coffee :doh:rolleyes::icon_lol::icon_lol:

[London_Manila]

alcohol is a legal drug and thats why so many people abuse it
drug related admissions in hospitals are a fraction of what the drunks provide

I do have a problem with being told its ok to take that but your not allowed to take this
I personally think that alcohol has given society many more problems than drugs
Yes you do get the heroin addicts breaking into places to steal items to sell so they can buy their next fix but these really are a small percentage of the overall drug taking population

Until we take the criminal element out of the supply of drugs then things are never going to change
Time to think outside the box but i dont see any politicians with the guts to change the present drug policy

[waytogo297]

I have only one thing to say, "Skunk" allegedly soft drug cannabis, now god knows how many more times stronger than the rubbish smoked by politicians and others in the 60's and 70's.
Is the largest causation of mental health issues in society today. An explosion of metal ill health has been caused to youngsters who would otherwise lead reasonable lives.
PS I was a psych nurse for thirty years, this stuff was the cause of an explosion of mental ill health amongst young people in the late 80's 90's and the present day. It literally stalled the process of community care to the revolving door standstill it is at to this day.

[Terpe]

.............Yes you do get the heroin addicts breaking into places to steal items to sell so they can buy their next fix but these really are a small percentage of the overall drug taking population.............

The UK illegal drug market is thought to be worth between £4 billion and £6.6 billion

- Class A drug use creates around £15.4 billion in crime and health costs each year

- 99 per cent of that is caused by problematic drug use, usually involving heroin or crack cocaine

- Between a third and a half of robberies, burglaries and other thefts relate to drug use

[lastlid]

alcohol is a legal drug and thats why so many people abuse it
drug related admissions in hospitals are a fraction of what the drunks provide

I do have a problem with being told its ok to take that but your not allowed to take this
I personally think that alcohol has given society many more problems than drugs
Yes you do get the heroin addicts breaking into places to steal items to sell so they can buy their next fix but these really are a small percentage of the overall drug taking population

Until we take the criminal element out of the supply of drugs then things are never going to change
Time to think outside the box but i dont see any politicians with the guts to change the present drug policy


The UK illegal drug market is thought to be worth between £4 billion and £6.6 billion

- Class A drug use creates around £15.4 billion in crime and health costs each year

- 99 per cent of that is caused by problematic drug use, usually involving heroin or crack cocaine

- Between a third and a half of robberies, burglaries and other thefts relate to drug use

Do you know, I believe both assertions are correct.

Need to include Crystal Meth in there too. And abused but prescribed drugs like valium.

[lastlid]

Valium abuse....

"Valium, the sleeping pill that gained notoriety 40 years ago as 'mother's little helper', is damaging a fresh generation of women who use it to relax and go to sleep after taking cocaine or amphetamines.
Doctors warned this weekend that they are seeing a huge increase among teenagers and women in their twenties who are unaware that the little blue pills are potentially fatal when taken with alcohol, as well as being highly addictive. Patients who try to come off the tablets suffer withdrawal effects for weeks, including hallucinations and anxiety attacks, which can be worse than the symptoms that accompany withdrawal from cocaine or ecstasy.

Valium, widely prescribed in the Sixties to women with anxiety or depression, is the brand name for diazepam, one of a class of tranquillisers and sleeping pills known as benzodiazepines. The pills have gained new popularity as they can be bought cheaply over the internet.

According to Dr Mike McPhillips, who runs the addiction centre at the Priory Hospital in Roehampton, west London, several patients bought them while travelling around south-east Asia on a gap year. 'We are seeing a lot of young women coming in with a Valium addiction, up to one in 10 patients,' he said. 'There's a culture of younger and younger women taking cocaine and if you take half a gram it is hard to sleep, so the dealer who generously sold you that drug will sell you the Valium.'"

A nasty substance and often taken as a cocktail with other drugs and or alcohol.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/mar/12/drugsandalcohol.jorevill

[joebloggs]

Until the taxpayer is prepared to pay for more policing:

"POLICE are seizing just ONE PER CENT of the heroin flooding Scotland’s streets — and cops now admit they’re fighting a losing battle.
Britain spends a whopping £1.5 BILLION a year trying to tackle the evil trade.
But experts claim officers are failing in every attempt to stamp out the scourge of society."

"Detective Chief Constable Gordon Meldrum, of the Scottish Crime & Drug Enforcement Agency, says: “My honest view is that we will not get anywhere close to that. You know we will never have enough law enforcement within the UK to actually stop anywhere near the amount of drugs that actually come into the country.”"

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/scottishnews/3062437/We-will-never-win-war-on-drugs-top-cops-admit.html#ixzz26knPKW8r

maybe its a crazy idea, but how about having some police on the streets :doh

whens the last time anyone on here saw a copper walking a beat ?

[lastlid]

maybe its a crazy idea, but how about having some police on the streets :doh

whens the last time anyone on here saw a copper walking a beat ?

I see them a lot here. They have white helmets here. :omg: And the panda cars operate with one, not two officers.


See the video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1HqiUeKpyg

[joebloggs]

the only time you see coppers in speeding in a car is when a football match is on :doh

[Doc Alan]

We don’t have good information about prevalence of use and harmful effects of many illicit drugs, including MDMA ( ecstasy ), hallucinogenic drugs, inhalants, or non-medical use of benzodiazepines such as “ Valium “ and anabolic steroids, so it’s hard to make judgements about their contribution to disease burden. It does seem that “ recreational use “ of prescription drugs is increasing. What is already beyond doubt, however, are the dangers – to health and society – especially of “ Class A “ ( UK ) drugs. Also, as pointed out out by our forum member waytogo297, who has years of experience as a psychiatric nurse, cannabis use does appear to be the biggest single cause of serious mental disorders in the UK.



We can only estimate social and economic costs of illegal drug markets – possibly now approaching 18 billion GBP annually in the UK. Smoking, alcohol excess, and obesity may EACH cost similar amounts ; at least the first two are significantly offset by tax revenues – but none are net contributors to the economy, and illegal drugs contribute nothing.

There is enormous variation in how countries apply laws against drug users, and to which substances. Drug users’ risk of arrest and consequences of arrest vary markedly – the death penalty has been abolished in the Philippines. Some countries have reputations for toughness ( successfully applied in Singapore but not Mexico ); others such as Portugal and Switzerland effectively treat drug taking as a health problem.

Globally, many fewer people use illicit drugs than those who eat and drink to excess, or smoke. The effectiveness of EITHER harsh punishment OR treatment as a health problem varies in different parts of the world. The costs of all four “ lifestyle choices “ are unsustainable.

The UK Government seems not to accept decriminalisation / legalisation any time soon. Professor David Nutt – former expert drugs advisor – was sacked in 2009 ( by former Health Secretary – and postman – Alan Johnson ) for his reforming views. Our Department of Health AND Home Office should oversee illicit drugs. As with the Philippines, sensible use of resources is vital – corruption not being such a problem in UK.

[Neu75]

I'd like to see relatively modest investment in ropes, gallows, bullets, canes etc the deterrent effect obviously works in those countries that are not blighted with illegal drugs and the accompanying crime, social and health issues

Yeah, that'll do :icon_lol:
You are sooooo funny :laugher:

[imagine]

maybe its a crazy idea, but how about having some police on the streets :doh

whens the last time anyone on here saw a copper walking a beat ?
:omg: you cant have coppers walking around on the streets, its not safe :doh:rolleyes:

[lastlid]

We don’t have good information about prevalence of use and harmful effects of many illicit drugs, including MDMA ( ecstasy ), hallucinogenic drugs, inhalants, or non-medical use of benzodiazepines such as “ Valium “ and anabolic steroids, so it’s hard to make judgements about their contribution to disease burden. It does seem that “ recreational use “ of prescription drugs is increasing. What is already beyond doubt, however, are the dangers – to health and society – especially of “ Class A “ ( UK ) drugs. Also, as pointed out out by our forum member waytogo297, who has years of experience as a psychiatric nurse, cannabis use does appear to be the biggest single cause of serious mental disorders in the UK.



I understand that accurate figures aren't necessarily readily available but there is plenty of good anecdotal evidence around and imformative articles on the internet. Also, Dr McPhilipps from the Priory, in the Guardian article above, seems to be a good source of useful information as he and others like him see the addicts coming in for treatment. I have personally heard the same from a similar source in Yorkshire where the abuse of valium is known to lead to addiction as described in the Guardian newspaper. It isnt just heroin and crack cocaine that causes all of the problems. And the experts also tell us that the heroin "substitute", methadone, is also a highly addictive substance that has nasty withdrawal effects. Again, methadone is a prescribed substance that is often abused. There is a Mr Hepburn in the Alexander clinic Aberdeenshire that is a expert in the subject of methadone.

I guess the information is there but is possibly not being collated / gathered / analysed.

Looking at his website:

"Patients of The Alexander Clinic include company directors, dentists, doctors, ex-pats, farm workers, housewives, office workers, oil workers, refuse collectors, retired people, road sweepers and teachers - to name only some of those who come to us."

[Doc Alan]

I understand that accurate figures aren't necessarily readily available but there is plenty of good anecdotal evidence around. Also, Dr McPhilipps from the Priory, in the Guardian article above seems to be a good source of useful information as he and others like him see the addicts coming in for treatment.
Thank you so much lastlid for your contributions :). I have always hoped that I was also a source of valuable information, after 35 years in the health service, with evidence from professional experience which is NOT anecdotal. My posts usually require several hours of work to prepare, so that they are accurate to the best of my knowledge :).

[lastlid]

Thank you so much lastlid for your contributions :). I have always hoped that I was also a source of valuable information, after 35 years in the health service, with evidence from professional experience which is NOT anecdotal. My posts usually require several hours of work to prepare, so that they are accurate to the best of my knowledge :).

And you certainly are. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Unfortunately for me I learned an unimaginable lot on the topic(s) a few years ago, over the course of many years. I am glad to say that for me it is all in the past. Everything I learned on the sorry substances is all in my head. But nontheless based on sound observation and also discussion with the police and various medical experts on drug abuse.

[lastlid]

"Methadone for drug addicts costs the taxpayer £105m in four years"

"A government spokesman said: "We know that the annual cost of drug misuse in the wider context of total economic and social costs is estimated at £3.5billion.

"That's over £60,000 per problem drug user - a cost for the whole community. However, these costs typically decrease by tens of thousands of pounds once an individual engages in treatment to support their recovery.

"That's why we are providing a record £28.6million investment in frontline drug treatment services in 2010-11 and our view is that the overarching aim of all drug treatment services should be recovery and this is at the core of our drugs strategy.""

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health/methadone-for-drug-addicts-costs-the-taxpayer-1071373

[London_Manila]

I have only one thing to say, "Skunk" allegedly soft drug cannabis, now god knows how many more times stronger than the rubbish smoked by politicians and others in the 60's and 70's.
Is the largest causation of mental health issues in society today. An explosion of metal ill health has been caused to youngsters who would otherwise lead reasonable lives.
PS I was a psych nurse for thirty years, this stuff was the cause of an explosion of mental ill health amongst young people in the late 80's 90's and the present day. It literally stalled the process of community care to the revolving door standstill it is at to this day.

I am a bit sceptical on this one

I mean did the skunk cause them to have mental health issues
They could have had mental health issues anyway and smoking skunk is just a coincidence
They may have smoked cannabis at some stage in their life but this does not mean that this caused them to have mental health issues
With so many youngsters using cannabis i feel this report was flawed
Put it another way, how many people with mental health issues have consumed tea or coffee in their lifetime as well !


Also many smokers at some stage in their life (18-30) have used cannabis and i doubt that all of them ended up with mental health issues

I read the research on this and to me it looked like they were adding 2 and 2 together and making 6

[London_Manila]

The UK illegal drug market is thought to be worth between £4 billion and £6.6 billion

- Class A drug use creates around £15.4 billion in crime and health costs each year

- 99 per cent of that is caused by problematic drug use, usually involving heroin or crack cocaine

- Between a third and a half of robberies, burglaries and other thefts relate to drug use

Small when compared to to the amount of police time taken up with dealing with drunks and dealing with alcohol related incidents = fights assaults drink driving vandalism domestic disputes

Most of our town centers become "no go areas" on friday and saturday evenings/nights dues to alcohol abuse and how many policeman tied up dealing with these idiots week after week

[London_Manila]

Do you know, I believe both assertions are correct.

Need to include Crystal Meth in there too. And abused but prescribed drugs like valium.

yes good point

Different countries different drugs of choice
ice seems to be the drug of choice in Thailand and the Philippines
But ice has never really taken off here..... must be a reason for that :Erm:

[London_Manila]

Valium abuse....

"Valium, the sleeping pill that gained notoriety 40 years ago as 'mother's little helper', is damaging a fresh generation of women who use it to relax and go to sleep after taking cocaine or amphetamines.
Doctors warned this weekend that they are seeing a huge increase among teenagers and women in their twenties who are unaware that the little blue pills are potentially fatal when taken with alcohol, as well as being highly addictive. Patients who try to come off the tablets suffer withdrawal effects for weeks, including hallucinations and anxiety attacks, which can be worse than the symptoms that accompany withdrawal from cocaine or ecstasy.

Valium, widely prescribed in the Sixties to women with anxiety or depression, is the brand name for diazepam, one of a class of tranquillisers and sleeping pills known as benzodiazepines. The pills have gained new popularity as they can be bought cheaply over the internet.

According to Dr Mike McPhillips, who runs the addiction centre at the Priory Hospital in Roehampton, west London, several patients bought them while travelling around south-east Asia on a gap year. 'We are seeing a lot of young women coming in with a Valium addiction, up to one in 10 patients,' he said. 'There's a culture of younger and younger women taking cocaine and if you take half a gram it is hard to sleep, so the dealer who generously sold you that drug will sell you the Valium.'"

A nasty substance and often taken as a cocktail with other drugs and or alcohol.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/mar/12/drugsandalcohol.jorevill

Xanax = Benzodiazepines

For me on a long haul flight these are the answer, i cant sleep upright and i cant sleep on a plane without them................what am i meant to do for 12 hours twiddle my thumbs!

Consume one pill and the next you know you have arrived at your destination

Purchased on the net because most docs here wont prescribe them for travel
I have not become addicted to them
I only ever take them on long haul flights and i never even been tempted to take them at other times

Doctors in the uk will prescribe you Zopiclone/Zolpidem these are pretty useless and at best will knock you out for around 1 hour = not so great on a 12 hour flight

Sorry but when i fly i need something to knock me out for many hours and i dont do alcohol

[lastlid]

Xanax = Benzodiazepines

For me on a long haul flight these are the answer, i cant sleep upright and i cant sleep on a plane without them................what am i meant to do for 12 hours twiddle my thumbs!

Consume one pill and the next you know you have arrived at your destination

Purchased on the net because most docs here wont prescribe them for travel
I have not become addicted to them


Evidently on that kind of basis its fine. Its those that consume or have a tendency to consume several or many each and every day that become or are dependent.

[gWaPito]

not all drug taking kids are house breaking, and mugging the elderly,, who is it has that wide brush:Erm:

Some of you may change your tune when one of your kids have been beaten black and blue all for the sake of his dinner money etc...all these losers need locking up...look at that story reported last week when that girl was 20 p short of her bus fare...some drug addled teenage raped and beat her beyond recognition...that scum was caged for 22 years yehey!..commonsense at last from our courts.

They should all hang Imagine...

' what am I on'....nowt Lastlid....never have, never will. Same for alcohol.

Perhaps having alcoholism and barbiturate abuse in my crazy family helped put me off those.

[joebloggs]

Some of you may change your tune when one of your kids have been beaten black and blue all for the sake of his dinner money etc...all these losers need locking up...look at that story reported last week when that girl was 20 p short of her bus fare...some drug addled teenage raped and beat her beyond recognition...that scum was caged for 22 years yehey!..commonsense at last from our courts.

They should all hang Imagine...

.

and gWaPito you may change your tune if one of your kids become addicted to drugs, after all they all have a mother and father, maybe brothers and sisters :NoNo:

[gWaPito]

and gWaPito you may change your tune if one of your kids become addicted to drugs, after all they all have a mother and father, maybe brothers and sisters :NoNo:

The last part of my last post (which you failed to quote) explained my stance on this subject.

I have been on the receiving end of teenage addicts...I know what emotional hell these assholes can put you through...no easy answers here for the onlookers but for those like myself who has seen what destruction drugs can do not only to the individual but whole families ruined....it would surely be kinder to jail them for at least there own protection.

[imagine]

you know a good lot of the time the blame is put on the drugs as an excuse for what they would have done anyway,

the same goes for alchahol

[gWaPito]

you know a good lot of the time the blame is put on the drugs as an excuse for what they would have done anyway,

the same goes for alchahol

Absolute rubbish...just my opinion...the opinion of a person who's had to live with parental (and elder brother) drug abusers

[lastlid]

you know a good lot of the time the blame is put on the drugs as an excuse for what they would have done anyway,

the same goes for alchahol

Quite a lot of truth in that. :xxgrinning--00xx3: Not in all cases, of course, but definitely the case in a good percentage of cases.

Good point. If you are going to burgle a house then it helps if you take something before hand. Exactly.

[imagine]

Absolute rubbish...better sticking to your short posts

by the way i didnt provocate an offensive reply

your entitled to your Absolubte rubish opinion just as i am am entitled to my Absolubt rubish opinion,

short posts maybe, but then i don't dribble on about what i dont know about

[imagine]

Quite a lot of truth in that. :xxgrinning--00xx3: Not in all cases, of course, but definitely the case in a good percentage of cases.

Good point.

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

looking back i can remember cases which were before the drink drive offence, when in court they would say something like,,,,, well its because of the drink your honour, like as if it was an acceptable excuse

[gWaPito]

by the way i didnt provocate an offensive reply

your entitled to your Absolubte rubish opinion just as i am am entitled to my Absolubt rubish opinion,

short posts maybe, but then i don't dribble on about what i dont know about

This is one subject I know quite alot about...through actual life experience...note latter part of # 72.

To say on a public forum that with or without drug addiction its something you would of done anyway is irresponsible at best.

Surely thats the mindset of an addict anyway.

I'll apologise for my reply....quite uncalled for but, this is an emotive subject especially if a great deal of your formative years have been blighted by these drug addictions by family members.

[Manila_Paul]

and gWaPito you may change your tune if one of your kids become addicted to drugs, after all they all have a mother and father, maybe brothers and sisters :NoNo:

You make it sound like these people come down with a nasty illness - rather than people with agency who can chose to take a drug or not. They're not victims. Drug possession is *meant* to be a crime. So I'm not sure what the point is here? Parents of criminals might be more willing to make excuses and be more sympathetic towards the actions of their children? What is new? Doesn't change the fact that all criminals should face the full weight of the law. Mine included.

[gWaPito]

Excellent post Paul...reputation on its way...good to see you have been un banned :)

[imagine]

This is one subject I know quite alot about...through actual life experience...note latter part of # 72.

To say on a public forum that with or without drug addiction its something you would of done anyway is irresponsible at best.

Surely thats the mindset of an addict anyway.

I'll apologise for my reply....quite uncalled for but, this is an emotive subject especially if a great deal of your formative years have been blighted by these drug addictions by family members.

yes you say alcoholism and barbiturate abuse in my crazy family helped put me off those.
i can see thats why you appear very single minded on this, the 2 drugs you mention do not have a good background,
when i was young i drank too much, often paraletic, but i didn't become alchaholic , nor did i commit crime, different drugs have different effects on individuals,so the drug nor the individual can be tarnished the same,

i did not say (with or without drug addiction its something you would of done anyway)
i said
(Quote) you know( a good lot of the time) the blame is put on the drugs as an excuse for what they would have done anyway,

please do not twist my words, you sound like a court lawyer:icon_lol:

drugs and drink are not always the fuel to fire the crime, but in some cases may be the fuse to the powder

[imagine]

This is one subject I know quite alot about...through actual life experience...note latter part of # 72.

To say on a public forum that with or without drug addiction its something you would of done anyway is irresponsible at best.

Surely thats the mindset of an addict anyway.

.

no i am not an addict

[lastlid]

You make it sound like these people come down with a nasty illness - rather than people with agency who can chose to take a drug or not. They're not victims. Drug possession is *meant* to be a crime. So I'm not sure what the point is here? Parents of criminals might be more willing to make excuses and be more sympathetic towards the actions of their children? What is new? Doesn't change the fact that all criminals should face the full weight of the law. Mine included.

Agreed. But some forum members are talking about hanging people for drug abuse, regardless. And lets say capital punishment is administered for drug abuse, where do we draw the line?

If someone uses / abuses drugs but isn't a menace to society, do we then string them up, as some are suggesting?

[lastlid]

yes you say alcoholism and barbiturate abuse in my crazy family helped put me off those.
i can see thats why you appear very single minded on this, the 2 drugs you mention do not have a good background,
when i was young i drank too much, often paraletic, but i didn't become alchaholic , nor did i commit crime, different drugs have different effects on individuals,so the drug nor the individual can be tarnished the same,

i did not say (with or without drug addiction its something you would of done anyway)
i said
(Quote) you know( a good lot of the time) the blame is put on the drugs as an excuse for what they would have done anyway,

please do not twist my words, you sound like a court lawyer:icon_lol:

drugs and drink are not always the fuel to fire the crime, but in some cases may be the fuse to the powder

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

To say on a public forum that with or without drug addiction its something you would of done anyway is irresponsible at best.



I think you have misread Imagine's wording and message. Some people who would otherwise have committed an offence, indulge in drug abuse. And would have done so whether they abused drugs or not.

[imagine]

Agreed. But some forum members are talking about hanging people for drug abuse, regardless. And lets say capital punishment is administered for drug abuse, where do we draw the line?

If someone uses / abuses drugs but isn't a menace to society, do we then string them up, as some are suggesting?

good point :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

The last part of my last post (which you failed to quote) explained my stance on this subject.

I have been on the receiving end of teenage addicts...I know what emotional hell these assholes can put you through...no easy answers here for the onlookers but for those like myself who has seen what destruction drugs can do not only to the individual but whole families ruined....it would surely be kinder to jail them for at least there own protection.

a subject i know alot about to, i lived with a drug addict for nearly 20yrs, addicts are not the only victims so are their family.

i dont think anyone wants to become addicted to drugs, but we all have difference tolerances and for some it's easy to become addicted, and for some of those impossible to give up :NoNo:

[lastlid]

a subject i know alot about to, i lived with a drug addict for nearly 20yrs, addicts are not the only victims so are their family.

i dont think anyone wants to become addicted to drugs, but we all have difference tolerances and for some it's easy to become addicted, and for some of those impossible to give up :NoNo:

Well said. Very well said.

[Dedworth]

Slaughter of two Police Officers yesterday down to drug dealing gangsters :NoNo:

[andy222]

It looks like this is a very debatable subject. Drug users come from all walks of life and they do it for many different reasons. But the dealers just do it for the money. I feel sorry for the parents who have tried to bring their kids up on the straight and narrow but have lost the battle.

[lastlid]

Back to the Russel Brand approach....

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/40677-Junkie-dies-of-Anthrax?highlight=russel+brand




Thats the point. In this case, the so called pinko do gooders methods have not been used.

I agree that its a problem, exascerbated by not enough police, not enough prison space and not enough detox clinics and not enough money, but economically it is cheaper to to go down the treatment route. I dont agree with such draconian measures as you are in favour of. :D Firm hand yes, but barbarism no. I sincerely hope that if you ever have a close relative that was unlucky enough or even stupid enough to get hooked, you wouldnt reach for the rope or the birch or the bullet. As it can happen to anyone - it doesnt stop at class boundaries.

By the way, Methadone is also an opiate. It is really just a heroin substitute. So dishing it out in prisons doesnt help. In fact dishing it out doesnt help at all. It is actually more dangerous than heroin as it rots the marrow.

[lastlid]

For anyone who wants to know more about the treatment route for drug addiction, rather than the capital punishment route, then there is no need to read all about it here, give the specialists a call. They are out there. They aren't employed directly by the NHS, which is another part of the problem ( the NHS as yet, as far as I know, do not have such clinics and basically put that part of their business out to these particular kinds of specialists of which there are so few ).

Dr Amal Beaini ( pronounced Beannie )
Detox 5
Harrogate
Yorkshire

Dr Hugh Hepburn
Alexander Clinic
Oldmeldrum
Aberdeenshire

Dr Mike McPhillips
The Priory
Sloane Street (Chelsea)
South West London

[Neu75]

Slaughter of two Police Officers yesterday down to drug dealing gangsters :NoNo:

You do have a habit of being controversial, if you don't mind me saying.
There are millions of kids and not so young who use recreational drugs - pot for example.
They don't get guns and shoot people and the people who sell to them are likewise.
Why OTT always? Calm down and take a chill pill :icon_lol:

[blessed_ekim0826]

:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3: