Hamas cowards hiding in bunkers

[andy222]

Typical they start it and then go into hiding.:doh

[KeithD]

Er... we'd already proved in another thread the Israeli's started it :doh

And of course you go into a bunker during air raids, it's called survival, you are no use to anyone dead!

[Iani]

I am on neither side in this, for different reasons.

I wonder though, just to put it in a UK perspective. Just say 60 million africans were to decide that the UK was their ancestral homeland, because they are animists and at one time, the UK was pagan - so that makes the UK their homeland. So they descended on the UK, bought up land by the hundreds of acres, murdered their way village by village, town by town, which what a surprise, caused the British to flee to safety - then the Africans declared that since this land was empty, it is now the African pagan homeland.
The EU in support tried to invade, but the Americans came down firmly and biased on the side of the Africans, because they knew no president would ever get elected without the African American vote - they supplied the Africans with huge monetary assistance and weaponry - and the EU was not only repulsed, but large swathes of northern France, Belgium and Denmark were occupied.

Now, despite the UN calling on the Africans to withdraw to the land they were given (What used to be the home counties), the Africans refused and started building towns all over France to consolidate their hold.

Add to this, they build a concrete wall across the north of Europe, which happened to cut off the remaining British from food supplies, and when they have to cross this wall, they are subjected to random beatings. The British and French towns as they were cut off deteriorated into slums.

The Africans in addition grew rich with American help, and helped to destabilise the neighbouring countries, leading to huge anger in the region.

Then every single time anyone dared to criticise the Africans, or try to point out that they had no genetic relation to the pagans who used to live in Britain - the Africans would whinge that this was racism due to the slave trade years ago..

Well, put in that position - would we be a bit peed off?

Not supporting either side as I said, no-one in their right mind should think Hamas wouldn't put the place into the same position as Saudi or Iran if they had the chance, but thinking - maybe things aren't clear cut in that region :Erm:

[KeithD]

Great post :xxgrinning--00xx3:

On top of that it's the biggest and longest siege in the history of mankind in Gaza, and the Western powers don't give a :censored: :doh

[andy222]

Where is the proof israel started this? First I heard it was hamas who fired the first rocket into israel on this occasion.

[KeithD]

Graham explained it very well: http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/42562-Looks-like-its-kicking-off-again?p=400750#post400750

Every country in the world, including the US, have Israel as an occupying force, as shown by numerous UN mandates, and also under the UN you have a right to defend your land from an occupying force. So the only group who could start a war in this case is the invading force... Israel.... it couldn't be any more simpler or clearer.

[andy222]

That is going back in history. Im talking about now. If you have a dog that bites you dont tease it do you?

[KeithD]

:Erm: But it's not HISTORY.... it is NOW. TODAY. THE CURRENT. It is a continuation from what happened decades ago, it has never stopped for as long as Israel occupy Palestine. That is the point.

Remember, a land that never existed, Israel, now officially exists, and a land that did exist, is now no longer existing :Erm:, Palestine! So officially Israel can't commit genocide on a country that doesn't exist :doh

[andy222]

I understand what your saying.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20347701

[stevie c]

It seems to me that of all the peace agreements made in the past it's always Hamas who breaks them firing the first rocket or sending a suicide bomber into israel :NoNo:

[andy222]

It looks that way. Then the media focus in on palestine for sympathy. Dont get me wrong I hate to see kids and women hurt. Im just saying that the ones who started it are safe in their bunkers and I dare say that would happen here too if we were under attack.

[KeithD]

It seems to me that of all the peace agreements made in the past it's always Hamas who breaks them firing the first rocket or sending a suicide bomber into israel :NoNo:

:doh You don't get it do you? ISRAEL CONSTANTLY BREAKS THE PEACE BY BEING ON OCCUPIED LAND :doh, as laid down by International Law. It is nothing to do with who fires what and when. Any country under occupation is allowed to fight back as and when it wants with any means it wants.

[andy222]

It seems to me thats exactly what is happening. Let them get on with it. If countrys keep sticking their nose in it will never end.

[bigmarco]

I think this sums it up quite well.

The incursion and bombardment of Gaza is not about destroying Hamas. It is not about stopping rocket fire into Israel, it is not about achieving peace. The Israeli decision to rain death and destruction on Gaza, to use lethal weapons of the modern battlefield on a largely defenseless civilian population, is the final phase in a decades-long campaign to ethnically-cleanse Palestinians.
Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely-crowded refugee camps, schools, apartment blocks, mosques, and slums to attack a population that has no air force, no air defense, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command in control, no army… and calls it a war. It is not a war, it is murder.
“When Israelis in the occupied territories now claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population they are crushing. You can't defend yourself when you're militarily occupying someone else's land. That's not defense. Call it what you like, it's not defense.”

[andy222]

Looks like they have something in common with America Marco and we back them up. Except for the fact we dont get attacked.

[nnomad]

i was going to reply to andys original post, but i now see that i dont have to !!

[imagine]

I think this sums it up quite well.

The incursion and bombardment of Gaza is not about destroying Hamas. It is not about stopping rocket fire into Israel, it is not about achieving peace. The Israeli decision to rain death and destruction on Gaza, to use lethal weapons of the modern battlefield on a largely defenseless civilian population, is the final phase in a decades-long campaign to ethnically-cleanse Palestinians.
Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely-crowded refugee camps, schools, apartment blocks, mosques, and slums to attack a population that has no air force, no air defense, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command in control, no army… and calls it a war. It is not a war, it is murder.
“When Israelis in the occupied territories now claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population they are crushing. You can't defend yourself when you're militarily occupying someone else's land. That's not defense. Call it what you like, it's not defense.”

that sums it up alright :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[KeithD]

I see Hamas and the rest of the world agreed a ceasefire last night :xxgrinning--00xx3: .... oh hang on.... Israel didn't :doh .... no surprise, as in 2008 they don't stop until they have completed certain goals. :NoNo:

About 140 dead, nearly half women and children, against 5 Israeli's .... those numbers prove beyond doubt that Hamas are the terrorists :icon_rolleyes: :crazy::anerikke: ..... Israel wouldn't be doing this for political gain with an election in January would they? Noooooo :Rasp: .... so they wouldn't come under the official meaning of 'terrorism' then :ReadIt: :cwm25:

terrorism
noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

[andy222]

It was like waving a red rag to a bull win. Thats the only way I can explain it. They will never learn. Hamas is no different to the taliban. They hide behind their own people. Cowards.

[KeithD]

Here is a list of all UN resolutions Israel is currently in breach off. The longest list of any country. http://www.israellawresourcecenter.org/unresolutions/studyguide/sgunres1e.html

[andy222]

What it doesnt say is how many times they were provoked.

[KeithD]

It was like waving a red rag to a bull win. Thats the only way I can explain it. They will never learn. Hamas is no different to the taliban. They hide behind their own people. Cowards.

:Erm: Do you not see what the majority of others see? :icon_rolleyes: You just don't get it do you... the UN does ... I'll use the UN resolution words.... "Deplores this action and reiterates that Israel, the occupying Power."

Hamas is defending it's people, which under UN law it has a right to do as well as under International Law against an occupying army. You can't get much simpler than that.

And I see no connection between Hamas and the Taliban, I do between the Taliban and Israeli's, as they are both contain religious nutters :Cuckoo:

As for 'hiding amongst the civilians' is that some kind of weird humour? You'll find the vast majority of wars that ever happened took place in cities, I've not long done a blog post on Manila in WW2.

[andy222]

You cant see the connection between the taliban and hamas? I have explained it. It is their stratagy hide amongst civilians. Of coarse there is going to be civilian casualtys. Anyway you keep on going back in history Im talking about present. Like I have said hamas fired rockets into israel on this occasion and they started it.

[andy222]

So they Hamas is defending its people by blowing a bus up in israel? Charming. Like i said waving a red rag at a bull.

[nnomad]

there are none so blind as those who will not see !!!!

[andy222]

:icon_rolleyes:

[raynaputi]

Put this in a simple example..would you allow gypsies or squatters live on your garden or home? I'm guessing the answer is NO. As has been said in posts above, Israelis are on occupied land. Hamaz are only trying to get rid of them from the place that originally belong to them.

[KeithD]

So they Hamas is defending its people by blowing a bus up in israel? Charming. Like i said waving a red rag at a bull.

I take it you see a difference between an explosive device on a bus and an explosive device dropped from 30,000ft onto a house? As I certainly don't... well apart from the fact one is a small the explosive the other a 2000lb bomb, both of which kill and injure civilians.

Israel had the chance for a ceasefire last night before decided against it for mission and political reasons, without the delay the bus bomb probably wouldn't have happened, but between Hamas agreeing a ceasefire and the bus bomb, Israel dropped 1,000lbs of explosives in civilian areas.

Remember, Israel admitted a campaign bombing the homes of alleged Hamas supporters. These are not military targets, these are civilian targets that contain families, as clearly seen when they wiped out 3 generations of women and children the other day.

Red flag? Yes, Israel have had the Gaza Strip under siege for years, and it is no surprise to constantly see Hamas acting as the bull as Israel wave the red flag.

You seem to be missing another clear point. Hamas is the legal democratically elected government of Palestine, recognised as such by the UN. As a government they are charged with protecting the people, Israel keep tellign us this, so they agree that the legal government of an occupied country has the right to protect its own people.

[bigmarco]

Most people have a difficulty with an elected government (Hamas) defending its people against an occupying force Israel.
However when you change the occupying force to Argentina and a small Island in the South Atlantic with more sheep than people they have no problem with the concept of a people doing everything possible to destroy the aggressor.
Why is that ?

[andy222]

Hamas are a islamic fundamentalist group. I think you can call them terrorists.:icon_rolleyes:

[KeithD]

Hamas are a islamic fundamentalist group. I think you can call them terrorists.:icon_rolleyes:

As I pointed out earlier, the official meaning of the word terrorism clearly points to Israel.

As the US invaded Iraq for no reason they must be a Christian Fundamentalist Group causing over 200,000 deaths. Remember, George Bush actually said God told him to invade Iraq.:crazy:

[andy222]

If you say so boss.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[nnomad]

excellent,, so that is that settled then..

[andy222]

No.:laugher:

[nnomad]

OMG,,,, there is now a " cease fire ",,,,,, but only if the palestinians accept that they have no right to fight back against their supression / ocupation !!!!! ha ha , i couldnt help feeling a bit sceptical listening to the evil clinton woman ranting on and on,,, what happened to her predecessors big talk of the " road map " for peace,,, these people are nothing short of evil liers !!! just how stupid / gulable does she think that we all are,,,,,,,

[imagine]

As I pointed out earlier, the official meaning of the word terrorism clearly points to Israel.

As the US invaded Iraq for no reason they must be a Christian Fundamentalist Group causing over 200,000 deaths. Remember, George Bush actually said God told him to invade Iraq.:crazy:

wasn't all the invasions we did, holy wars , in the name of god, invade rape and pillage,

history shows its the western world thats always been the worst

[nnomad]

to be fair " imagine ",,, all our holy wars were actually more about pillage and theft, ( spices, silk, gold and laterlly oil ) and the religous thing was really just a smokesscreen,, like " weapons of mass destruction " was the last time round,,,,,,,,,,,, however , it did not go down well with the locals and built up resentment over the centuries , that was not a problem hundreds of years ago when the fighting took part hundreds / thousands of miles away from these shores but as the abilities of the various dissident groups brought the results of our rampaging heroic armies neare home things became a bit different ,,,,,,,,,

[KeithD]

Very interesting reading here from a Rabbi's human rights group which basically agrees with everything I've been saying: http://www.rabbisforpalestine.org/some-simple-questions-answered/

[imagine]

to be fair " imagine ",,, all our holy wars were actually more about pillage and theft, ( spices, silk, gold and laterlly oil ) and the religous thing was really just a smokesscreen,, like " weapons of mass destruction " was the last time round,,,,,,,,,,,, however , it did not go down well with the locals and built up resentment over the centuries , that was not a problem hundreds of years ago when the fighting took part hundreds / thousands of miles away from these shores but as the abilities of the various dissident groups brought the results of our rampaging heroic armies neare home things became a bit different ,,,,,,,,,

the tables are turning

[andy222]

A cease fire yes........... Till the next time when Israel might do a proper job.

[imagine]

they know if they call a cease fire, it will keep any opposition happy, its a ploy ,

how many cease fires has there been and how many more, untill they achieve their goal,

israel should be up for war crimes

[nnomad]

" a proper job ",,,,,,,,,,,, that is not really a very nice way to speak mate.

[andy222]

" a proper job ",,,,,,,,,,,, that is not really a very nice way to speak mate.
Im not saying it from my point of view. Im saying it because its probably the way the Israelies will see it.

[KeithD]

israel should be up for war crimes
This can't happen due to the fact the UN do not recognise Palastine as a State (but they do Israel :Erm:). So until Palestine is accepted by the UN as a State no war crimes can be put against a country that does not exist. This is why Israel can do what the hell they like and get away with it, it also explains why Israel fights so hard in the UN not to have Palestine recognised.

All is explained well here: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/icc-rejects-palestinian-bid-to-investigate-israeli-war-crimes-during-cast-lead-gaza-operation-1.422397

If they were recognised, then the ICC would move forward with war crimes against Israel but only from the day of recognition, not due to what happened in the past. :doh


So basically Israel are allowed to commit genocide against a country that does not exist, and have no consequences. :NoNo: