Financial requirements, interesting query.

[Paulypoos1973]

Hi Folks,

Hope you can advise on this query, its impossible to get ANY advice/clarification from the UKBA and Im at my wits end...here is a cut and paste of the clarification I need, taken from an email, all comment/advice gratefully received.

-----


Dear Sir/Madam

I am requesting clarification of some rules relating to the UK spouse visa financial requirements regulations.

I understand that as of July 2012 I must be earning £18,600 to bring my Filipino wife to the UK to join me but its the process of how to prove I meet the criteria that confuses me. I believe that I submit 6 payslips, you take the one with the lowest pay on it (gross) and multiply that by 12 to get my yearly income. The problem is that like most folk I DONT GET PAID MONTHLY, I get paid every 28 DAYS, meaning I get 13 payments a year. Surely then multiplying by 12 gives an inaccurate representation of my yearly wage, what is the rule regarding this then as Im sure most folk applying will be affected. Do I submit 7 payslips and request that one is divided into 12 and a twelfth of it added onto each of the other 6 payslips?

It also worrys me that you take the LOWEST of 6 as the vast majority of my overtime is earned in the 3 or 4 months around the Christmas period. It could be the case that I do exceed £18,600 but NOT ACCORDING to your calculation, do you advise that in such circumstances I submit my P60 in April/May detailing my complete wage for the previous year as testament of my income? I believe that even WITH a P60 you STILL do the 6 month check so again it could be the case you have, on one hand, a P60 accurately stating I earn over £18,600 whilst on the other a bizarre, unreliable and inaccurate calculation saying I don't....on the basis of which you may unfairly reject a visa application.
---------------

I was married in May, had to fly back to the UK on the EVENING of our wedding day and not seeing my beloved wife till Feb :-(

These new rules have made my life HELL, I dont claim a thing, Im working many many hours (have no life outside of work) and its so depressing. I can honestly say that if I were face to face with Cameron or May I would spit in their faces.

[Steve.r]

Paul,
I cannot tell you the answer, but your questions are well formed and should receive an accurate answer. But knowing our systems I am sure you will get pushed from pillar to post before the UKBA give a direct answer.

Maybe Terpe can shine some light on your question.

:smile:

[Paulypoos1973]

Thanks Steve,
Yes the UKBA website is a maze and seems deliberately complex, leading you around in circles without actually getting you anywhere. Oh its very simple to find links to shop suspected illegal immigrants or to get advice if your a student or employer but things are suspiciously complex for a spouse. After much searching Ive ended up sending the query to a number of people/departments/email addresses in the UKBA, direct to the immigration minister, to Theresa May but Im continually coming up against a brick wall. This disgusts me as Im just after clarification/advice, I pay these penpushers wages and they cant even answer a query. I suspect the buggers dont know the answer themselves or are under instructions to withhold any advice in an attempt to deter applications.

The last straw will be to contact my MP and ask her to contact UKBA for me, she is utterly useless and doesnt even reply to emails now.

[joebloggs]

£18,600/12 = £1550 a month, as you've posted, if any are less than this they will use that figure, if any are less than £1,550 a month you'll probably be refused as I believe there is no discretion on the figure.

unless you've got savings to make up the shortfall

[andy222]

Sorry mate you will get the same response (if you get one) as I did. If you dont earn the money required your wife cant come. Whether you are legally married or not they dont give a monkeys :action-smiley-081:.

[ericthatcher]

hi paul, same problem with me. shortfall i only earned 16000 annual year, but hopely will change the rules next year haha i wish!:hubbahubba:

[bigmarco]

Hi Paul I understand your point as I get paid 4 weekly and like you have 13 pay days per year.
Wait to see what our experts say but I would be tempted to submit 7 payslips 6 months bank statements but also if possible a letter from your employer detailing your income and showing that you meet the financial requirement.

[Paulypoos1973]

Joebloggs/Andy .... you don't seem to grasp the point Im making and its similar to the UKBAs misunderstanding I believe, I DO earn over £1550 a month if you divide my yearly pay by the 13 times I get paid annually (every 28 days) but they want to disregard 1 months pay in the equation, essentially multiplying one payslip amount (1/13 of annual income) by 12 INSTEAD of 13. This isnt about my not earning enough, its about the UKBA using an incorrect procedure with those of us paid 13 times a year. Bigmarco, glad to see you understand the grey area here and Im sure you'll agree it will affect many people and needs verification. Looking forward to hearing from the experts.

[lastlid]

Hi Folks,

Hope you can advise on this query, its impossible to get ANY advice/clarification from the UKBA and Im at my wits end...here is a cut and paste of the clarification I need, taken from an email, all comment/advice gratefully received.

-----


Dear Sir/Madam

I am requesting clarification of some rules relating to the UK spouse visa financial requirements regulations.

I understand that as of July 2012 I must be earning £18,600 to bring my Filipino wife to the UK to join me but its the process of how to prove I meet the criteria that confuses me. I believe that I submit 6 payslips, you take the one with the lowest pay on it (gross) and multiply that by 12 to get my yearly income. The problem is that like most folk I DONT GET PAID MONTHLY, I get paid every 28 DAYS, meaning I get 13 payments a year. Surely then multiplying by 12 gives an inaccurate representation of my yearly wage, what is the rule regarding this then as Im sure most folk applying will be affected. Do I submit 7 payslips and request that one is divided into 12 and a twelfth of it added onto each of the other 6 payslips?

It also worrys me that you take the LOWEST of 6 as the vast majority of my overtime is earned in the 3 or 4 months around the Christmas period. It could be the case that I do exceed £18,600 but NOT ACCORDING to your calculation, do you advise that in such circumstances I submit my P60 in April/May detailing my complete wage for the previous year as testament of my income? I believe that even WITH a P60 you STILL do the 6 month check so again it could be the case you have, on one hand, a P60 accurately stating I earn over £18,600 whilst on the other a bizarre, unreliable and inaccurate calculation saying I don't....on the basis of which you may unfairly reject a visa application.
---------------

I was married in May, had to fly back to the UK on the EVENING of our wedding day and not seeing my beloved wife till Feb :-(

These new rules have made my life HELL, I dont claim a thing, Im working many many hours (have no life outside of work) and its so depressing. I can honestly say that if I were face to face with Cameron or May I would spit in their faces.

It looks like again, they haven't taken into account that some peoples pay doesn't follow perceived convention.

I used to earn an irregular income and always topped £18600 per annum by a country mile, but occasionally on one month in a year I might easily earn less than £1550. There are a lot of people out there like that.

I would be interested to see how you get on. It is a shame that they have not been a little more flexible in setting these new rules as someone who earns, say £40,000 in a year yet only £1500 in one month would get refused as the sponsor.

How absurd.

[Paulypoos1973]

£18,600/12 = £1550 a month, as you've posted, if any are less than this they will use that figure, if any are less than £1,550 a month you'll probably be refused as I believe there is no discretion on the figure.

unless you've got savings to make up the shortfall

They shouldnt be dividing by 12 but by 13 as each of my payslips represent 1/13 of a yearly wage.

[lastlid]

They shouldnt be dividing by 12 but by 13 as each of my payslips represent 1/13 of a yearly wage.
Like I said, the rules reflect a perceived convention and not reality.

[Paulypoos1973]

Agreed lastlid, clearly all of these sneaky measures are there to make as many folk unable to get a visa as possible.

[lastlid]

Agreed lastlid, clearly all of these sneaky measures are there to make as many folk unable to get a visa as possible.

Paul. Give a few immigration advisors a ring. See what they say. It may just be that your wife's application can be succesfully progressed under the spirit of the regs, if not to the letter. Some will give away a limited amount of free info to get the business. It will cost only the price of the phone calls.

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

I wonder how the HRMC will tax you for the year? You can be sure it will be on your gross yearly income and not on your minimum monthly income multiplied by 12 or by 13. I know that the HRMC and the UKBA aren't exactly one and the same but they are both government departments, are they not?

[lastlid]

Mind you, that is a strange one, 13 payslips each year, paid every 28 days. A bit like a bakers dozen. :biggrin:

[Paulypoos1973]

Exactly lastlid, at the end of the day they want to see a yearly income equal to or exceeding £18,600....if I have a years worth of payslips AND a P60 showing I meet the criteria I can't see how they could argue I don't earn enough, should they refuse my wife clearly my basis for an appeal would leave them with barely an argument to rely on.

[lastlid]

Exactly lastlid, at the end of the day they want to see a yearly income equal to or exceeding £18,600....if I have a years worth of payslips AND a P60 showing I meet the criteria I can't see how they could argue I don't earn enough, should they refuse my wife clearly my basis for an appeal would leave them with barely an argument to rely on.

I would like to think so. But of course its the extra time, hassle, agony and stress of an appeal that is out of order.

[Michael Parnham]

If I were you Paul, when applying for the 'visa' explain in your sponsers letter about your income, after all they have to read it and it can't do any harm!!

[Paulypoos1973]

Thanks Michael, certainly will be explaining it all to them....just trying to get OFFICIAL word from UKBA on their view of the situation.

Being paid every 28 days is very common in the UK, people call it monthly but its not...its every 28 days.

[lastlid]

This guy would no doubt make the UKBA regs heaps more easier to understand. :icon_lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFB_FS9rV0c

Stanley Unwin on settlement visa regulations would be a real gem. My number one choice for a solicitor. :biggrin:

[joebloggs]

Joebloggs/Andy .... you don't seem to grasp the point Im making and its similar to the UKBAs misunderstanding I believe, I DO earn over £1550 a month if you divide my yearly pay by the 13 times I get paid annually (every 28 days) but they want to disregard 1 months pay in the equation, essentially multiplying one payslip amount (1/13 of annual income) by 12 INSTEAD of 13. This isnt about my not earning enough, its about the UKBA using an incorrect procedure with those of us paid 13 times a year. Bigmarco, glad to see you understand the grey area here and Im sure you'll agree it will affect many people and needs verification. Looking forward to hearing from the experts.

i do see your point, but i dont make the rules, as unfair as they are,until some challenges them in court.

[mendoza82]

hi paul,me and my husband are in the same situation he get paid every 4 weeks 13 times a year,his monthly earning is less than 1550 but his p60 is more tha`t the minimum wage require,did u submit your p60 and a letter from your job stating how u get paid?coz im also very worried regarding this matter,i asked my husband to request a letter from his job explain how he get paid,hope it will work...anyway goodluck.

[lastlid]

i do see your point, but i dont make the rules, as unfair as they are,until some challenges them in court.

Or send Andy over with his baseball bat. :biggrin:

[lastlid]

Thanks Michael, certainly will be explaining it all to them....just trying to get OFFICIAL word from UKBA on their view of the situation.

Being paid every 28 days is very common in the UK, people call it monthly but its not...its every 28 days.
I have always been paid every calendar month. But don't disbelieve you.

That being the case, yes, the regs are infinitesimally daft.

[Paulypoos1973]

hi paul,me and my husband are in the same situation he get paid every 4 weeks 13 times a year,his monthly earning is less than 1550 but his p60 is more tha`t the minimum wage require,did u submit your p60 and a letter from your job stating how u get paid?coz im also very worried regarding this matter,i asked my husband to request a letter from his job explain how he get paid,hope it will work...anyway goodluck.


No, not submitting visa app for a month or two yet hence my trying to clarify this matter before then. As we are both in the same situation it will be interesting to keep track of each others progress, good luck.

[Paulypoos1973]

i do see your point, but i dont make the rules, as unfair as they are,until some challenges them in court.


I know you dont make the rules and I know the rules are unfair, this is about clarification of how the UKBA deals with a situation where someone isnt paid STRICTLY monthly.

[lastlid]

I know you dont make the rules and I know the rules are unfair, this is about clarification of how the UKBA deals with a situation where someone isnt paid STRICTLY monthly.

Clarification? Thats easy. As far as the UKBA are concerned such people that are paid every 28 days don't exist. :big grin:

Same for those on an irregular income. They never heard of 'em.

[rusty]

Unfortunatly it's a "one size fits all" when it comes to some of the requirements and application forms.

They have tried to cover most types of payment, such as, employed and self employed but looks like they missed some.

[bigmac]

I can honestly say that if I were face to face with Cameron or May I would spit in their faces.

hmmm well--yes--i fully sympathise with you and understand your anger----but to put that in your email? you may well find the reader earns less than you do---and let his finger touch the delete button.

[mendoza82]

No, not submitting visa app for a month or two yet hence my trying to clarify this matter before then. As we are both in the same situation it will be interesting to keep track of each others progress, good luck.

yup sure,we are also planning to submit same target time as yours.by the way from where here in the phil your wife coming from?im in manila but originally from cebu..hope to chat with your wife..

[rusty]

I believe that I submit 6 payslips, you take the one with the lowest pay on it (gross) and multiply that by 12 to get my yearly income.

I have not fully read all of the requirements so where does it say that in the requirements?

Taken from Appendix FM-SE - Family members - specified evidence

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/appendix-fmse/ (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/appendix-fmse/)

2. In respect of salaried employment in the UK, all of the following evidence must be provided:

(b) The P60 for the relevant period or periods of employment relied upon (if issued).

(c) Wage slips covering:
(i) a period of 6 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for at least 6 months; or
(ii) any period of salaried employment in the period of 12 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for less than 6 months.

(d) A letter from the employer(s) who issued the wage slips at paragraph 2(c) confirming:

(i) the person's employment and gross annual salary;
(ii) the length of their employment;
(iii) the period over which they have been or were paid the level of salary relied upon in the application; and
(iv) the type of employment (permanent, fixed-term contract or agency).
(e) A signed contract of employment for employment currently held.
(f) Monthly personal bank statements corresponding to the same period(s) as the wage slips at paragraph 2(c), showing that the salary has been paid into an account in the name of the person or in the name of the person and their partner jointly.


As long as you supply the evidence above, backed up with you letter of support detailing you salary arrangements, then I cannot see any grounds for refusal.

[lastlid]

As long as you supply the evidence above, backed up with you letter of support detailing you salary arrangements, then I cannot see any grounds for refusal. [/COLOR][/FONT]

From what I gather, they take your lowest monthly income and multiply by 12. I can't recall where I saw it but it seems to crop up a lot in threads.

[bigmarco]

Hi Paul as I see it if you are paid 4 weekly like us then this section is quite important.

(d) A letter from the employer(s) who issued the wage slips at paragraph 2(c) confirming:

(i) the person's employment and gross annual salary;
(ii) the length of their employment;
(iii) the period over which they have been or were paid the level of salary relied upon in the application; and
(iv) the type of employment (permanent, fixed-term contract or agency).
(e) A signed contract of employment for employment currently held.
(f) Monthly personal bank statements corresponding to the same period(s) as the wage slips at paragraph

If you also mention your salary arrangements in your supporting letter then the message should hopefully register with the ECO.
Judging by the timescale you have mentioned in earlier posts, in the unfortunate event that they refuse you solely on financial grounds then this would be about the time you actually receive your P60 which would of course prove your annual earnings.

[Terpe]

Paul,

As you can see there are many views.

In principle there is no stipulated requirement for 6 monthly payslips.
Under category A the requirement is to provide wageslips "covering a period of 6 months prior to the date of application"
Also, and importantly,

A letter from the employer(s) who issued the wage slips at paragraph 2(c) confirming:

(i) the person's employment and gross annual salary;
(ii) the length of their employment;
(iii) the period over which they have been or were paid the level of salary relied upon in the application; and
(iv) the type of employment (permanent, fixed-term contract or agency).


However, rather than going into the precise details of how best to present these details under existing rules I would strongly suggest you wait for a few days until the latest changes have been implemented on 13th December 2012

It appears that the need to make special and precise statements of compliance may no longer be necessary and that evidence of earned income may be allowed over a period of 12 months.

The objective is to enhance evidential flexibility by the caseworker exercising discretion.

The complete wording still remains convoluted but will hopefully become clearer following further study.

Please be patient for a short while. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Paulypoos1973]

I can honestly say that if I were face to face with Cameron or May I would spit in their faces.

hmmm well--yes--i fully sympathise with you and understand your anger----but to put that in your email? you may well find the reader earns less than you do---and let his finger touch the delete button.

.....yawn....whatever

[Paulypoos1973]

Paul,

As you can see there are many views.

In principle there is no stipulated requirement for 6 monthly payslips.
Under category A the requirement is to provide wageslips "covering a period of 6 months prior to the date of application"
Also, and importantly,


However, rather than going into the precise details of how best to present these details under existing rules I would strongly suggest you wait for a few days until the latest changes have been implemented on 13th December 2012

It appears that the need to make special and precise statements of compliance may no longer be necessary and that evidence of earned income may be allowed over a period of 12 months.

The objective is to enhance evidential flexibility by the caseworker exercising discretion.

The complete wording still remains convoluted but will hopefully become clearer following further study.

Please be patient for a short while. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Thanks Terpe, certainly looks like waiting, handing in 7 payslips with a full explanation is the way to go. Still waiting for any sort of official reply from UKBA.

[Terpe]

Thanks Terpe, certainly looks like waiting, handing in 7 payslips with a full explanation is the way to go. Still waiting for any sort of official reply from UKBA.

Paul, I would be very surprised if you got any helpful advice from UKBA.
They will at best only cut and paste immigration rules for you, then suggest you seek specialist advice if you cannot understand.

I really couldn't give any time so far to fully understand the usual UKBA civil service gobbledegook, but see what you make of the 'proposed' newly worded FM-SE (Family Members - Specified Evidence) Annex


In Appendix FM-SE delete paragraph 2 and substitute

2. In respect of salaried employment in the UK, all of the following evidence must be provided:
(a) Wage slips covering:
(i) a period of 6 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for at least 6 months
(and where paragraph 13(b) of this Appendix does not apply);

or

(ii) any period of salaried employment in the period of 12 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current
employer for less than 6 months (or at least 6 months but the person does not rely on paragraph 13(a) of this Appendix),
or in the financial year(s) relied upon by a self-employed person.

(b) A letter from the employer(s) who issued the wage slips at paragraph 2(a) confirming:
(i) the person's employment and gross annual salary;
(ii) the length of their employment;
(iii) the period over which they have been or were paid the level of salary relied upon in the application; and
(iv) the type of employment (permanent, fixed-term contract or agency).
(c) Personal bank statements corresponding to the same period(s) as the wage slips at paragraph 2(a), showing that the salary has been paid into an
account in the name of the person or in the name of the person and their partner jointly.”

I think it's better to hang on until the final wording is published before making a final decision.
Even in the worst case scenario your 13 annual payslips can be explained.
Don't ever give up!

I have some friends who are also trying to comply with the requirement for employer letter confirmations but are now employed under 'zero-hours' contracts. (NHS)

[andy222]

Its a nightmare.:hubbahubba:

[lastlid]

Duplicate error. Sorry.

[lastlid]

Check out this link for the changes on December 13th

Statements of changes in Immigration Rules

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/statementsofchanges/

[Terpe]

Check out this link for the changes on December 13th

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/statementsofchanges/

So how does that differ from what has been already posted???????????????

[lastlid]

So how does that differ from what has been already posted???????????????


It will differ on 13th December once they have released it. Quick link.

[Terpe]

It will differ on 13th December once they have released it. Quick link.

So how does that differ from what has been already posted???????????????

What new informtion are you offering??????????

Please elucidate

[lastlid]

So how does that differ from what has been already posted???????????????

What new informtion are you offering??????????

Please elucidate

The link to the Statement of Changes to Immigration Rules.

Currently for the months of November and September Etc. But will also list new changes on December 13th, the content of which will be revealed then. Any such changes will no doubt apply to those applying for visas to the UK. And may well be of interest to the OP, Paul.

Watch that space. Click on the link on Dec 13th. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[ericthatcher]

hello lastlid, do u mean everything will be changes? about rules and applying visa spouse or settlement? is that possible?? they cut out the income into lowest one???

[lastlid]

hello lastlid, do u mean everything will be changes? about rules and applying visa spouse or settlement? is that possible?? they cut out the income into lowest one???

I have to say, I am no expert in these matters, but I gather some changes are afoot - I am guessing only relatively minor ones though. As you can see, Terpe alludes to them in post 33.

[joebloggs]

maybe as long as you earned £18.k in the last 12 months, that would be fairer than what they are doing now.

[lastlid]

maybe as long as you earned £18.k in the last 12 months, that would be fairer than what they are doing now.

I agree with that. Sensible too.

[Iani]

Thinking here, there's more than one way of confirming your annual salary of course. Yes one method they use is to take 6 months and make that up to an "in theory" 12, however the other way is to state you are using as evidence pay in the last 12 month period.
For that, I think you provide 12 months worth of payslips (Yes it's every 28 days, but use 12 calendar months and I'm certain this would be fine, and if not, then it clearly says this would not be grounds for refusal, but they would request an extra payslip or two), along with your P60 which although not essential, can't do any harm (As long as its over £18,600), and this way you should meet the requirement.

I don't think they use the last 6 months wageslips to make some sort of projected income, if you are submitting slips for the last years earnings option.

[Terpe]

Thinking here, there's more than one way of confirming your annual salary of course. Yes one method they use is to take 6 months and make that up to an "in theory" 12, however the other way is to state you are using as evidence pay in the last 12 month period.
For that, I think you provide 12 months worth of payslips (Yes it's every 28 days, but use 12 calendar months and I'm certain this would be fine, and if not, then it clearly says this would not be grounds for refusal, but they would request an extra payslip or two), along with your P60 which although not essential, can't do any harm (As long as its over £18,600), and this way you should meet the requirement.

I don't think they use the last 6 months wageslips to make some sort of projected income, if you are submitting slips for the last years earnings option.

Unfortunately, thus far, these strategies have led only to refusals.
Despite rights and wrongs and logics, UKBA have been stubbornly adhering to the letter of the current law.

Anyone who does not fully understand the requirements for full compliance or believes they may be marginal on the income side (especially concerning wage slip details) should seek experienced advice before spending money on a risky application.

Changes on the cards for December implementation may offer less complex requirements and much needed caseworker flexibility.
Let's hope so anyway.

[lastlid]

I sincerely hope that for those that are on marginal or irregular incomes that they do refine the detail of the regulations.

Anyone can be down on their monthly pay for the odd month or two for that matter, regardless of their gross income, e.g. jury service, illness etc etc.

[andy222]

I sincerely hope that for those that are on marginal or irregular incomes that they do refine the detail of the regulations.

Anyone can be down on their monthly pay for the odd month or two for that matter, regardless of their gross income, e.g. jury service, illness etc etc.
Yes circumstances do change. But they are not interested in that.

[Iani]

Righty, with you. Well, it seems as already said, if there is chance that something may change in the evidence criteria - AND happening so soon from now, it's best to frankly forget any thoughts of trying to work it out under the current rules, in favour of waiting those few more days and seeing if anything does change.

[lastlid]

Yes. Of course. Clink on the link on Dec 13th. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Terpe]

I sincerely hope that for those that are on marginal or irregular incomes that they do refine the detail of the regulations.

Anyone can be down on their monthly pay for the odd month or two for that matter, regardless of their gross income, e.g. jury service, illness etc etc.

Yes. Even a holiday in the Philippines to spend time with your loved one can lead to a 'shortage' in one month.

[joebloggs]

Caseworkers will be able to refuse the application if they have evidence that the applicant or partner has deceived them as to the level and/or source of income, has tried to do so, or has withheld relevant information, e.g. that the cash savings relied upon are a loan. Caseworkers will also be able to refuse an application if they are told by the applicant, or establish,that the applicant’s or applicant’s partner’s circumstances have changed materially since the point of application, such that the applicant does not meet the requirements.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/IDIs/chp8-annex/section-FM-1.7.pdf?view=Binary

cash savings can't be a loan, if you become unemployed or you loose one of your jobs, ovetime etc you could be refused, this is :crazy: Ryna asked this question in another post, so if it takes them 8 months to process your app and you've just lost your job , they could refuse you a visa :cwm23:

[raynaputi]

Caseworkers will be able to refuse the application if they have evidence that the applicant or partner has deceived them as to the level and/or source of income, has tried to do so, or has withheld relevant information, e.g. that the cash savings relied upon are a loan. Caseworkers will also be able to refuse an application if they are told by the applicant, or establish,that the applicant’s or applicant’s partner’s circumstances have changed materially since the point of application, such that the applicant does not meet the requirements.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/IDIs/chp8-annex/section-FM-1.7.pdf?view=Binary

cash savings can't be a loan, if you become unemployed or you loose one of your jobs, ovetime etc you could be refused, this is :crazy: Ryna asked this question in another post, so if it takes them 8 months to process your app and you've just lost your job , they could refuse you a visa :cwm23:

That's what I was worried about with all these waiting :NoNo:

[joebloggs]

That's what I was worried about with all these waiting :NoNo:

i'm sure anyone refused because of this, challenged the decision by judicial review would have to win, its ridiculous that they are taking 8 months to process an application, also the bad publicity UKBA has had and with the recession many being made redundant , they should base the decision on when you applied, not when they were bothered to process your application :crazy:

[raynaputi]

i'm sure anyone refused because of this, challenged the decision by judicial review would have to win, its ridiculous that they are taking 8 months to process an application, also the bad publicity UKBA has had and with the recession many being made redundant , they should base the decision on when you applied, not when they were bothered to process your application :crazy:

I've read that a woman from another forum applied on February this year (only a few days before the expiration of her Tier 4 visa), had an error in the payment details so have to resend the application after her visa already expired when UKBA told her about the error. Then UKBA contacted her for more recent documents on October. And by November/December, she got refused of visa and was told not eligible for appeal. According to the refusal letter, her and her sponsor's income didn't comply with the new financial requirements, which the caseworker had based from as she submitted the application after her Tier 4 visa expired. I'm not sure whether that should be the case knowing she submitted the application under the old rules and UKBA processed her application so late. :Erm:

[joebloggs]

well that's why its best to apply for a visa ASAP and not leave it to the last minute in case problems like this occur, also it depends on who's fault it was, whether it was the banks, UKBA or her fault ( not enough funds in the bank, wrong bank details, etc) .

I'm sure i remember cases where there was a problem with payment but they allowed the person to send the payment again, i suppose it depends on how quick you were to resend it, if it was weeks later and you notice they haven't taken the payment then you have to have some blame, you need to keep your eye on your bank account and make sure payment has been in taken within days or a week or so and not weeks and do nothing :doh

also some people have filled in the payment details incorrectly on purpose to buy more time or dont have the funds in their account, all delaying tactics and UKBA know about this.

it all depends on when they resent the application, was it straight away, or more than 30 days,,

[Terpe]

Rayna, your FLR(M) application will be assessed under 'old rules'
I have not encountered any refusal due solely to financials under this regime.

Please believe that I understand such situations and please be strong and expect the best outcome.

God Bless all there (meant in the best possible way):xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2012/04/30/fairness-to-the-rescue-yes-again/

fairness is what the judges and court like :biggrin:

when it comes to fee payments in both postal and in-person applications and notes the vast differences in approach between the two. Apparently, with postal applications, the applicant’s payment sheet is shredded (for security reasons) by the UKBA and if the fee cannot be collected, the rest of the application and supporting documents are returned to the applicant. Further, no record is kept of what went wrong with the payment.

From this, the UT concluded that the best evidence of whether an application was accompanied by the fee would clearly be the original information page supplied by the Appellant and that the best evidence of why an attempt to process a payment failed would be the record kept by whoever processed the payment, i.e. the UKBA. However, as is clear from the information set out above, both of these are items of evidence which cannot possibly be made available as they are either shredded at the time that the application is returned as invalid or not kept as a record!

Most importantly, the UT considered that the evidential burden as to whether an application was accompanied by the fee payment firmly rests with the UKBA

[raynaputi]

Rayna, your FLR(M) application will be assessed under 'old rules'
I have not encountered any refusal due solely to financials under this regime.

Please believe that I understand such situations and please be strong and expect the best outcome.

God Bless all there (meant in the best possible way):xxgrinning--00xx3:

Thanks for that Terpe. :xxgrinning--00xx3: I'm not worried about my application (BUT FURIOUS OF THE VERY LONG WAIT..TURNING 9 MONTHS ON THE 27TH DEC :Brick:) as we can meet the requirements even under the new rules. I just wondered before as I have read from other forum that some have been requested of recent bank statements/payslips etc. after their applications have been in the pile for months. :NoNo:

[Paulypoos1973]

Still no response to my numeros enquiries rearding this to UKBA, Downing Street, my MP, etc etc.

Its an absolute disgrace that I cant even get ANYONE to answer a question regarding clarification of a rule.

[grahame 1]

Hi Paul,
I found the same with the border agency and i had a query over savings for a spouse visa. I got my answer and a good explanation from VSF GLOBAL in the Philippines . Thet work with the UKBorder Agency. E-mail info.ukph@vfshelpline.com They say they will reply in 5 days and actually replied to me in 3 days. They may be able to help as visa will be granted over there

[Paulypoos1973]

Thanks mate, will email them now. Just phoned UKBA and feel like banging my head on the wall. Asked them the question and clearly they didnt have a clue to the answer, they are a complete waste of space.

[Terpe]

Thanks mate, will email them now. Just phoned UKBA and feel like banging my head on the wall. Asked them the question and clearly they didnt have a clue to the answer, they are a complete waste of space.

Paul,
Don't get me wrong, Im certainly not defending UKBA.
IMO they really are 'unfit for purpose'.

But please don't expect too much from them.
In their own words :-


UK Border Agency staff are not able to give help or advice on how to complete your application, or what type of visa you should apply for.

If you need help with your application or advice about the UK's immigration law and requirements, you should seek advice from a qualified immigration adviser. This will ensure that your representative meets approved standards and is properly qualified to advise you.


Am I correct in recalling that your main issue is in connection with your variable pay?
(specifically 13 months per annum instead of 12 months per annum?

I believe that the recent changes will cover your situation if you make application under Category B of the financial requirement.

However, be informed I am not an immigration advisor and I would strongly suggest you have a very brief discussion with a qualified advisor about making application under the newly ammended Category B rather than a Category A applicant.

Hope that will help.

I honestly don't believe that UKBA will give a plain English definition of the weasel words they use in the immigration rules.

But please check yourself.

Currently under Category B it is stated:-

Less than 6 months with current employer or variable salary


Whereas previously is was stated:-

Salaried employment for less than the last 6 months

It's certainly a very major operational change.

Hope this will help you with your understanding.
I doubt UKBA will give you confidence.
But I do think a qualified and experienced Immigration Advisor will confirm my thinking.