Looks like the price of cigarettes is about to rocket.

[bigmarco]

Tax increases on Tobacco products to be at least 1000% by 2017.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2012/12/12/884994/congress-ratifies-sin-tax-bill

[lastlid]

Excellent :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[bigmarco]

Perhaps not for the 2.9 million Filipinos dependent on the Tobacco industry.

[lastlid]

Perhaps not for the 2.9 million Filipinos dependent on the Tobacco industry.


Drilon argued that the sin tax measure is a health measure, noting that Filipinos smoke 10.7 million sticks per day, including children as young as 13.

Yes. Two sides to the story. Personally I think it is a good move for healths sake and may bring in extra revenue to the government coffers that they can (hopefully) spend on pressing issues.

[lastlid]

Yes. Two sides to the story. Personally I think it is a good move for healths sake and may bring in extra revenue to the government coffers that they can (hopefully) spend on pressing issues.

Looks like they are attempting overnight eradication though. :yikes:

[Arthur Little]

Excellent :xxgrinning--00xx3:

:icon_sorry: ... but such a remark :yeahthat: "sounds" to me, very much like an ... :anerikke: ... "I'm alright, Jack" attitude - coming from someone who's either NEVER smoked or has, at some point, successfully managed to QUIT the habit once and for all!

[lastlid]

:icon_sorry: ... but such a remark :yeahthat: "sounds" to me, very much like an ... :anerikke: ... "I'm alright, Jack" attitude -coming from someone who's either NEVER smoked or has, at some point, successfully managed to QUIT the habit once and for all!

Coming from someone who's ex wife smoked like a chimney and was responsible for asthma in our two children. Both children were hospitalised as babies because of it - both passive smokers who had no choice in the matter at all.

[lastlid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucszwf7JJG8

[lastlid]

The foetus takes the smoke in too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puAATe6eBbs

[lastlid]

Children and passive smoking

"Breathing in secondhand smoke is particularly harmful for children. Children who breathe in secondhand smoke have an increased risk of:
cot death (sudden infant death syndrome or SIDS) - this is twice as likely in babies whose mothers smoke
developing asthma - smoking can also trigger asthma attacks in children who already have the condition
serious respiratory (breathing) conditions such as bronchitis and pneumonia - younger children are also much more likely to be admitted to hospital for a serious respiratory infection
meningitis
coughs and colds
middle ear disease, such as otitis media (a middle ear infection), which can cause hearing loss
Children who grow up with a parent or family member who smokes are also about twice as likely to start smoking later in life.
If you’re a parent who smokes, it will be hard to explain to your children why they shouldn’t start smoking. Try to lead by example and quit. As well as improving your heath and theirs, your children may be less likely to start smoking later in life. "

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/2289.aspx?categoryid=53&subcategoryid=536

[Arthur Little]

Coming from someone who's ex wife smoked like a chimney and was responsible for asthma in our two children. Both children were hospitalised as babies because of it - both passive smokers who had no choice in the matter at all.

:poke: ... she's your ex-wife now ... and, hopefully, each of your two kids grew into normal, healthy adults - none the worse of the (often "unexplained") childhood asthma attacks that, for some equally inexplicable reason, have been known to afflict the offspring of many, many *parents - neither of *whom had ever put a cigarette to their lips.

Let me cite an example:

My own late first wife - a lifelong non-smoker - was born into a household where no one smoked ... yet suffered chronic asthmatic attacks during early adolescence.

Doctors and ENT Specialists of the time [circa early 1950s] were baffled :confused: for a while ... until one of them suggested her symptoms might be linked to some form of nervous reaction - possibly stemming from the fact that it was unusual to find a 12-year-old coping with numerous domestic duties on top of her schoolwork - because her mother suffered from acute rheumatoid arthritis ... which eventually left the latter very badly crippled and unable to perform the most basic household tasks.

[Arthur Little]

She ... my late wife ... somewhat ironically, developed 'Rheumatoid' herself (NOT, of course, Arthuritis, I would hasten to add!) in later life and, despite having never ever smoked, died from a particularly malignant form of cancer at the early age of 52. :bigcry:

[London_Manila]

Yes. Two sides to the story. Personally I think it is a good move for healths sake and may bring in extra revenue to the government coffers that they can (hopefully) spend on pressing issues.

Just watch the cheap imports from China go through the roof if this comes in :wink:

cigarettes are certainly not cheap here in the uk £9 a packet but many people carry on smoking

Bringing in these kind of taxes just effects the poor

They went after the smokers in the uk and now its the turn of drinkers

fat people are on the list as well........................

"well its bad for you so lets tax it even more" easy targets diba :icon_rolleyes:

Like all those green taxes on long haul flights = just another way to get more money out of us

[London_Manila]

Yes. Two sides to the story. Personally I think it is a good move for healths sake and may bring in extra revenue to the government coffers that they can (hopefully) spend on pressing issues.

I think you have more faith in the government over there than i do........

[Arthur Little]

Like all those green taxes on long haul flights = just another way to get more money out of us

Precisely what I'd been going to say, ALSO ... but you've saved me the trouble! :68711_thanx:

[Arthur Little]

Anyway, folks, :yawn: it's time I went off to bed for a few hours' kip ... if only for the sake of separating me from my favourite 'briar' for a few hours.

Goodnight, all! :NEW5:

[lastlid]

:poke: ... she's your ex-wife now ... and, hopefully, each of your two kids grew into normal, healthy adults - none the worse of the (often "unexplained") childhood asthma attacks that, for some equally inexplicable reason, have been known to afflict the offspring of many, many *parents - neither of *whom had ever put a cigarette to their lips.

Let me cite an example:

My own late first wife - a lifelong non-smoker - was born into a household where no one smoked ... yet suffered chronic asthmatic attacks during early adolescence.

Doctors and ENT Specialists of the time [circa early 1950s] were baffled :confused: for a while ... until one of them suggested her symptoms might be linked to some form of nervous reaction - possibly stemming from the fact that it was unusual to find a 12-year-old coping with numerous domestic duties on top of her schoolwork - because her mother suffered from acute rheumatoid arthritis ... which eventually left the latter very badly crippled and unable to perform the most basic household tasks.

I can see that point but its pretty obvious, in hindsight, that the two went hand in glove. And now my daughter is 30 yo, she knows herself what the cause was.

I also know that from personal experience, if I am in a room full of cigarette smoke, on a bad day it affects my breathing too!

I would like to turn the "alright Jack" comment around and say that for many smokers it can be a case of "I am alright Jack" with little regard for the consequences of their habit on others.

Some of us are a little wiser now and realise that smoking is not only harmful to ourselves but also harmful to those within the smokers vicinity. For others it is a case of don't know or don't care or both.

[lastlid]

:poke: ... she's your ex-wife now ... and, hopefully, each of your two kids grew into normal, healthy adults - none the worse of the (often "unexplained") childhood asthma attacks that, for some equally inexplicable reason, have been known to afflict the offspring of many, many *parents - neither of *whom had ever put a cigarette to their lips.

Let me cite an example:

My own late first wife - a lifelong non-smoker - was born into a household where no one smoked ... yet suffered chronic asthmatic attacks during early adolescence.

Doctors and ENT Specialists of the time [circa early 1950s] were baffled :confused: for a while ... until one of them suggested her symptoms might be linked to some form of nervous reaction - possibly stemming from the fact that it was unusual to find a 12-year-old coping with numerous domestic duties on top of her schoolwork - because her mother suffered from acute rheumatoid arthritis ... which eventually left the latter very badly crippled and unable to perform the most basic household tasks.

I am not so certain we are talking inexplicable here. Inhaling smoke is surely a very explicable reason for asthma, especially in the young or unborn.

[lastlid]

I think you have more faith in the government over there than i do........

Yes, fair point. :biggrin:

[stevewool]

i was born into a household that everyone smoked except my mum, in the end there was 15 of us and only 2 not smoking, look at me i am ok i think, would i blame them if i was not, not at all, its what we thought at the time was right,anyway back to putting tobacco up, drinks , tabacco, flights, cars,it seems any pleasure we get in life is taxed, will there be a sex tax i wonder

[lastlid]

i was born into a household that everyone smoked except my mum, in the end there was 15 of us and only 2 not smoking, look at me i am ok i think, would i blame them if i was not, not at all, its what we thought at the time was right,anyway back to putting tobacco up, drinks , tabacco, flights, cars,it seems any pleasure we get in life is taxed, will there be a sex tax i wonder

It must be okay then Steve. You have just proved that. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Carry on smoking guys and girls!

[stevewool]

in them days before there was warnings about your health, they was promoting tabacco everywhere, its good for you , you get the best women, you are a man, just look at the adverts, but in this modern day of what is bad for you, things have changed, we are all going to die one day, whether its the fags yousmoked, the eggs you ate, the butter you put on the bread even the cabbage you ate too,plus today being a so called a healthy living,its down to each of us whether we smoked in the days i mentioned we kids did not have a choice,now if my partner smoked, she would not be my partner, that is the choice i would make, hard yes but its my choice no one elses

[lastlid]

in them days before there was warnings about your health, they was promoting tabacco everywhere, its good for you , you get the best women, you are a man, just look at the adverts, but in this modern day of what is bad for you, things have changed, we are all going to die one day, whether its the fags yousmoked, the eggs you ate, the butter you put on the bread even the cabbage you ate too,plus today being a so called a healthy living,its down to each of us whether we smoked in the days i mentioned we kids did not have a choice,now if my partner smoked, she would not be my partner, that is the choice i would make, hard yes but its my choice no one elses

You have a choice Steve, so do I. Our unborn kids don't have a choice and neither do the very young. It used to be that some adults had little choice, but with the new regulations in the UK and other countries that is changing rapidly.

[lastlid]

Anyhow, don't take my word for it. Have a look at what the experts say.

Here is some good material on the matter. Theres is heaps out there.

"Why is it so dangerous to smoke during pregnancy?
Cigarette smoke contains more than 4,000 chemicals, including truly nasty things like cyanide, lead, and at least 60 cancer-causing compounds. When you smoke during pregnancy, that toxic brew gets into your bloodstream, your baby's only source of oxygen and nutrients.

While none of those 4,000-plus chemicals is good for your baby (you would never add a dollop of lead and cyanide to his strained peaches), two compounds are especially harmful: nicotine and carbon monoxide. These two toxins account for almost every smoking-related complication in pregnancy, says ob-gyn James Christmas, director of Maternal Fetal Medicine for Commonwealth Perinatal Associates at Henrico Doctors' Hospital in Richmond, Virginia."


http://www.babycenter.com/0_how-smoking-during-pregnancy-affects-you-and-your-baby_1405720.bc

[stevewool]

what the experts say, but its what the real people do for themselves, like many have said, its down to each of us whether we smoke, dont smoke and so on, no one smokes in my house my car, and if i am working in the lorries that too, infact no one smokes around me at all, unless i go into their house, thats my choice, lots of my older family has started to not smoke so better late then never for them, i am lucky too with 4 of my children not smoking but alas 1 still does, dont know why, she does not know why either, its a drug, if only we had all this information years ago would it make a difference i dont think so

[jake]

Tax increases on Tobacco products to be at least 1000% by 2017.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2012/12/12/884994/congress-ratifies-sin-tax-bill
I'm sure that wont happen by 2017. The vast majority of the land that grows tobacco is probably owned by political families or there allies. If they did raise the taxes by 1,000% the tobacco industry would go under ground and the government would lose out on the taxes which they wouldn't want to happen.

[lastlid]

what the experts say, but its what the real people do for themselves, like many have said, its down to each of us whether we smoke, dont smoke and so on, no one smokes in my house my car, and if i am working in the lorries that too, infact no one smokes around me at all, unless i go into there house, thats my choice, lots of my older family has started to not smoke so better late then never for them, i am lucky too with 4 of my children not smoking but alass 1 still does, dont know why, she does not know why either, its a drug, if only we had all this imformation years ago would it make a differance i dont think so

I disgaree on the freedom of choice that you express. Passive smokers tend to have no choice, especially the kids and unborn. Are you saying we should be free to choose if we poison our kids? That is why the choice has to be removed and laws made on smoking in public places, because given the choice, many people would ignore the consequences of their actions.

[lastlid]

Perhaps not for the 2.9 million Filipinos dependent on the Tobacco industry.

Could be a vote loser then. :biggrin:

[stevewool]

I disgaree on the freedom of choice that you express. Passive smokers tend to have no choice, especially the kids and unborn. Are you saying we should be free to choose if we poison our kids? That is why the choice has to be removed and laws made on smoking in public places, because given the choice, many people would ignore the consequences of their actions.

now you are being silly, you are free to poison your own children everyday with what you feed them and if you want to blow smoke into there faces everyday, thats your choice and there is nothing anyone can do about it, till its too late, the choice is down to each of us, do we go to the room where everyone smokes or not, also i am being silly too saying this, but its down to all of us to make the right choice at the right time, lots before us did not have the choice or the knowledge that we have now

[lastlid]

So what is it that is so good about smoking?

What are the benefits? What are the plusses?

We say it is one of life's little pleasures, but what exactly is that pleasure?

From the sound of it it must be bl00dy good.

[lastlid]

you are free to poison your own children everyday with what you feed them

Yes and some people do.

[mickcant]

The worst's thing is why people start smoking, is it wanting to be the same as others in their group?

I was brought up in a smoking household and tried one at 15 when I first started work, and despite the others smoking bought a bag of sweets instead.
Yet my 2 sons were bought up in a non smoking home and both smoke!

Crazy:NoNo:
Mick.:Erm:

[Arthur Little]

back to putting tobacco up, drinks , tobacco, flights, cars,it seems any pleasure we get in life is taxed, will there be a sex tax i wonder

:gp:, Steve ... here's a personal perspective on the state of OUR nation:

Raising more tax?
These are the facts

Taxing all the cars
Even Mars Bars

Taxing all the food
Simply is not good.

Taxing all the drink
How low CAN they sink?

Taxing all the fags
Next, t'will be the sh:do_it:gs

Taxing us when'er we fly
As they've done since days gone by.

Taxing sport and leisure
Soon, there'll be no pleasure

Hardest hit will be the poor
Of that, you may be very sure.

All mounts up to one BIG SCAM
But does our Government give a damn?
No, they're hell~bent on almost any
Chance - to seize our every penny!

Ohh, my ...! :doh

[lastlid]

:gp:, Steve ... here's my take on the state of the nation:

Raising more tax
These are the facts
Taxing all the cars
Even Mars Bars
Taxing all the food
It's just not good
Taxing all the drink
How low can they sink
Taxing all the fags
Doubtless next, will be the sh:do_it:gs
Taxing sport and leisure
Soon there'll be no pleasure
Hardest hit will be the poor
Of that, you may be very sure.
All adding up to one BIG SCAM
But does our Government give a damn?
No, they're hell~bent on almost any
Chance - to wring out every penny! :doh

Great rhyming skills :biggrin:

Actually they should be taxing deep fried mars bars! :biggrin:

[bigmarco]

So what is it that is so good about smoking?

What are the benefits? What are the plusses?

We say it is one of life's little pleasures, but what exactly is that pleasure?

From the sound of it it must be bl00dy good.

There are many things that people see as a pleasure in life that I just don't understand, but they enjoy and I will always respect their right to do it.
I do have a problem with Governments pretending that they are concerned about the health of a nation and for the benefit of everyones health increasing taxes on something. If they were that concerned about health they would ban it altogether. You and I know that if everyone stopped smoking tomorrow they would have to generate the massive revenue stream from elsewhere.
It appears to me that the Government in the Philippines are now waking up to the idea that there is a lot of revenue to be earned from the tobacco industry whilst dressing it up as caring for the health of the nation . The only difference is that in such a poor country where 2.9 million people are dependant on the Tobacco industry for their living this could have dramatic consequences .
Now if you'll excuse me I've just got up and am about to enjoy my second cup of tea of the morning along with my second cigarette.:biggrin:

[bigmarco]

So what is it that is so good about smoking?

What are the benefits? What are the plusses?

We say it is one of life's little pleasures, but what exactly is that pleasure?

From the sound of it it must be bl00dy good.

There are many things that people see as a pleasure in life that I just don't understand, but they enjoy and I will always respect their right to do it.
I do have a problem with Governments pretending that they are concerned about the health of a nation and for the benefit of everyones health increasing taxes on something. If they were that concerned about health they would ban it altogether. You and I know that if everyone stopped smoking tomorrow they would have to generate the massive revenue stream from elsewhere.
It appears to me that the Government in the Philippines are now waking up to the idea that there is a lot of revenue to be earned from the tobacco industry whilst dressing it up as caring for the health of the nation . The only difference is that in such a poor country where 2.9 million people are dependant on the Tabacco industry for their living this could have dramatic consequences .
Now if you'll excuse me I've just got up and am about to enjoy my second cup of tea of the morning along with my second cigarette.:biggrin:

[Michael Parnham]

Whatever you all say, at the end of the day smoking can kill!!

[bigmarco]

Whatever you all say, at the end of the day smoking can kill!!

Along with many other things Michael.
It's about freedom of choice.

[lastlid]

Now if you'll excuse me I've just got up and am about to enjoy my second cup of tea of the morning along with my second cigarette.:biggrin:

:biggrin:

[lastlid]

If they were that concerned about health they would ban it altogether. You and I know that if everyone stopped smoking tomorrow they would have to generate the massive revenue stream from elsewhere.


What is that revenue stream? Is it so big these days? As far as I can see there are far less smokers about than ever. We must have turned the corner on that and thus the government must be taking less revenue.

[Michael Parnham]

Interesting topic, very entertaining reading all the different opinions, but as you say, 'freedom of choice'!!

[lastlid]

Iteresting topic, very entertaining reading all the different opinions, but as you say, 'freedom of choice'!!

Freedom of choice except when it comes to the kids. I think I stand alone on that on this thread, but stand I shall. I haven't heard anyone else stand up for them on the matter of passive smoking yet.

I am also right behind the laws on smoking in public places and look forward to a ban in cars when there are kids in the car.

[bigmarco]

What is that revenue stream? Is it so big these days? As far as I can see there are far less smokers about than ever. We must have turned the corner on that and thus the government must be taking less revenue.

I've read that 77% of the price of 20 goes to the exchequer. That equates to about £11 billion a year. A tidy sum.

[lastlid]

I've read that 77% of the price of 20 goes to the exchequer. That equates to about £11 billion a year. A tidy sum.

No doubt dwindling. Personally I don't believe that the UK government rely on that money. I imagine it is offset by the health related costs to the NHS etc etc

[fred]

Off down to Tag tomorrow to buy every carton of smokes I can find... If I can get 50k worth of fags then so be it..
Cant think of a better small business right now!! Oh...Booze too.. Think I might need to borrow my in laws ten wheeler.
12 Pesos a pack will not stop locals smoking short term BTW.

[bigmarco]

No doubt dwindling. Personally I don't believe that the government rely on that money. I imagine it is offset by the health related costs to the NHS etc etc

Your starting to sound like a politician. :biggrin::biggrin:

[fred]

Your starting to sound like a politician. :biggrin::biggrin:


Too right!!.
Is there no where left to hide from these do gooders?

[lastlid]

Your starting to sound like a politician. :biggrin::biggrin:

Not at all. Just not comfortable with smoking. I admit that it is no doubt hard to get off them, once on them. I saw that in my ex wife. Once addicted it must be so difficult to ditch the habit, but other than that I can't think of a single benefit to smoking.

And it aint good for the sex life, aint good for the skin and slows the brain down.:Cuckoo:

[lastlid]

Too right!!.
Is there no where left to hide from these do gooders?

The Philippines?

[Arthur Little]

Great rhyming skills :biggrin:

Actually they should be taxing deep fried mars bars! :biggrin:

Ah ... now there, :iagree:

[lastlid]

Ah ... now there, :iagree:
There should be a tax on rhymes and puns! :biggrin:

That would give you a large tax bill, Arthur.

[Arthur Little]

I appear to have got rather bogged down with this subject matter. It would seem fitting, therefore, for me to clarify my own stance in such a "knotty" :8_1_215: debate.

I have smoked since the age of 17 - a pipe, MAINLY - and continue to do so because I actually ENJOY it!

Admittedly, too ... I restrict myself to one - yes, ONE - *cigarette per day (which I also enjoy!) immediately following my evening meal, by treating *it in much the same way as those men with a penchant for "after dinner cigars" (which, I'm NOT particularly fond of!) might.

I am, of course, essentially a 'pipe man', as many of our regulars here are aware. But, I consider myself a light to moderate [unintentional pun] smoker who COULD - and has - quit on several occasions whenever financial [or other] exigencies dictate. Moreover, I confine my pipesmoking to the smallest of 3 bedrooms - which, years ago, while living alone, I converted into a study - wherein my computer is housed.

Some would say I'm a lucky man in this respect. And I'd be the first to agree. :smile:

And, at this juncture, I'd hasten to assure WHOEVER it may concern, that there is NO WAY I'd smoke in front of young children. Just as you wouldn't condone it ... neither would I ! :nono-1-1: Nor would I even dream of :Smokin: in other peoples' homes unless specifically invited! Indeed, I [very] rarely smoke outside, nowadays ... often abstaining for hours on end. I simply DO NOT relish giving up the habit for the rest of my days, however. :NoNo:

End of story. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

I appear to have got rather bogged-down with this subject matter. It would seem fitting, therefore, for me to clarify my own stance in such a "knotty" :8_1_215: debate.

I have smoked since the age of 17 - a pipe, MAINLY - and continue to do so because I actually ENJOY it!

Admittedly, too ... I restrict myself to one - yes, ONE - *cigarette per day (which I also enjoy!) immediately following my evening meal, by treating *it in much the same way as those men with a penchant for "after-dinner cigars" (which, I'm NOT particularly fond of!) might.

I am, of course, essentially a 'pipe man', as many of our regulars here are aware. But, I consider myself a light to moderate [unintentional pun] smoker who could - and has - quit on several occasions whenever financial [or other] exigencies dictate. Moreover I confine my pipesmoking to the smallest of 3 bedrooms - which, years ago, while living alone, I converted into a study - wherein my computer is housed.

And, at this juncture, I would hasten assure WHOEVER it may concern, that there is NO WAY I'd smoke in front of young children. Just as you wouldn't condone it ... neither would I! :nono-1-1: Nor would I even dream of :Smokin: in other peoples' homes unless specifically invited! Indeed, I [very] rarely smoke outside, nowadays ... often abstaining for hours on end. I simply DO NOT relish giving up the habit for the rest of my days, however. :NoNo:

End of story. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[bigmarco]

No doubt dwindling.

Wrong
http://www.the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-research/facts-figures/tax-revenue-from-tobacco/

In 2006/07 smoking cost the NHS £2.7 billion yet raised £10 billion in taxes.
http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_694.pdf

Once again a rather large revenue stream for the Government.

[bigmarco]

I appear to have got rather bogged down with this subject matter. It would seem fitting, therefore, for me to clarify my own stance on such a "knotty" :8_1_215: debate.

I have smoked since the age of 17 - a pipe, MAINLY - and continue to do so because I actually ENJOY it!

Admittedly, too ... I restrict myself to one - yes, ONE - *cigarette per day (which I also enjoy!) immediately following my evening meal, by treating *it in much the same way as some men with a penchant for "after dinner cigars" (which, I'm NOT particularly fond of!) might.

I am, of course, essentially a 'pipe man', as many of our regulars here are aware. But, I consider myself a light to moderate [unintentional pun] smoker who COULD - and has - quit on several occasions whenever financial [or other] exigencies dictate. Moreover, I confine my pipesmoking to the smallest of 3 bedrooms - which, years ago, while living alone, I converted into a study - wherein my computer is housed.

Some would say I'm a lucky man in this respect. And I'd be the first to agree. :smile:

And, at this juncture, I'd hasten to assure WHOEVER it may concern, that there is NO WAY I'd smoke in front of young children. Just as you wouldn't condone it ... neither would I ! :nono-1-1: Nor would I even dream of :Smokin: in other peoples' homes unless specifically invited! Indeed, I [very] rarely smoke outside, nowadays ... often abstaining for hours on end. I simply DO NOT relish giving up the habit for the rest of my days, however. :NoNo:

End of story. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:Good for Arthur and may I suggest that the nearly years of smoking doesn't appear to have slowed your brain down as was suggested in an earlier post. Far from it , you appear as sharper than most.

[fred]

The Philippines?


Yes ..but unfortunately they plague the internet.

Arthur..Glad you are still able to enjoy a smoke in your own home but Im certain that there are busy body dogooder nurse maids somewhere right now plotting to remove even that simple pleasure from you...
They are busy gathering statistics and lies to use against you in the near future as we speak. For your own good..Of course!!

[Arthur Little]

:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:Good for Arthur and may I suggest that the nearly 51 years of smoking doesn't appear to have slowed your brain down as was suggested in an earlier post.

Nice of you to say so, Marco ... :68711_thanx:

:olddude: ...tbh ... I find the pipe aids my concentration and helps keep me focussed. :cwm25:

[lastlid]

Wrong
http://www.the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-research/facts-figures/tax-revenue-from-tobacco/

In 2006/07 smoking cost the NHS £2.7 billion yet raised £10 billion in taxes.
http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_694.pdf

Once again a rather large revenue stream for the Government.

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[andy222]

I dont think there is much difference between pipe tobacco and cigarettes. Lets face it all governments cane the working man. Smoking has been around for years. I agree it has health risks but how do you explain to someone who has never smoked the enjoyment you get from it. Its a drug at the end of the day and as ARTHUR as stated it helps consentration and keeps you focussed.

[lastlid]

This appears to be a pro smokers thread. You can pat each other on the back as much as you like, it won't change anything. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

I dont think there is much difference between pipe tobacco and cigarettes. Lets face it all governments cane the working man. Smoking has been around for years. I agree it has health risks but how do you explain to someone who has never smoked the enjoyment you get from it. Its a drug at the end of the day and as ARTHUR has stated it helps concentration and keeps you focussed.

Yes, it is exactly that.

[andy222]

So if it is a big problem why dont all our brilliant scientists find a cure for it?

[lastlid]

Yes ..but unfortunately they plague the internet.

Arthur..Glad you are still able to enjoy a smoke in your own home but Im certain that there are busy body dogooder nurse maids somewhere right now plotting to remove even that simple pleasure from you...
They are busy gathering statistics and lies to use against you in the near future as we speak. For your own good..Of course!!

If by the expression "do gooder" you mean protecting the unborn and children then so be it. Guilty as charged.

[lastlid]

So if it is a big problem why dont all our brilliant scientists find a cure for it?

Good question. Maybe they will one day. Hopefully they will.

[fred]

If by the expression "do gooder" you mean protecting the unborn and children then so be it. Guilty as charged.

What are you talking about now?

[andy222]

No Lastlid there is too much money to be made out of it in tax. Thats the reason.

[lastlid]

What are you talking about now?

Protecting those that have no choice but to inhale someone else's smoke.

[bigmarco]

Protecting those that have no choice but to inhale someone else's smoke.

Hmm we're getting a bit high and mighty here Lid. I can understand having just had a baby you wish to protect the little one and yet by your own admission you had 2 children with a woman who smoked like a chimney.......What was the difference

[lastlid]

No Lastlid there is too much money to be made out of it in tax. Thats the reason.

Well, whatever the motives, I hope they do find a solution.

[fred]

We had a British ex smoker complaining about excessive smoke in my mates bar just the other day... My mate barred him!!:icon_lol:
I love it here.

[andy222]

I agree to the extent that the kid has no choice. My ex smoked when she was having our 2 daughters. Of which you know one is in the army and fitter than most of her age.

[lastlid]

Hmm we're getting a bit high and mighty here Lid. I can understand having just had a baby you wish to protect the little one and yet by your own admission you had 2 children with a woman who smoked like a chimney.......What was the difference

Not high and mighty. Just aware. Obviously it helps that I don't smoke to have a detached view but I am firmly against smoking and have good reason to be. Thats it.

Difference in the women? One smoked and the other doesn't. :biggrin:

If you have kids that have suffered from smoking related illnesses then it does focus your mind as an anti-smoker.

[lastlid]

Gents. You puff smoke in each others faces till your hearts content. Be my guest. :biggrin:

[fred]

Protecting those that have no choice but to inhale someone else's smoke.

Smokers that I know would never smoke in my house as there are kids in the house and its house rules anyway.. They smoke on the exterior balcony with an ice cold beer.
I dont need legislation to educate and force me to act in a way that is purely common sense...Very irritating.

[Doc Alan]

Here is what I said less than a couple of months ago on another thread ( http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/41906-PNoy-smoking-habit-and-sin-tax?highlight=PNoy+smoking )
It attracted little attention at the time. I’m sorry, but as I explained in another thread, with my other commitments I’m unable to reply – or add anything significant - to every new thread on related topics.




• Sin taxes are an unreliable way of reducing consumption or improving public health. They are regressive – taking a proportionally greater amount from those on lower incomes.


• Smokers and heavy drinkers may cost the state more during their shorter than average lives. At least the sin taxes they raise pay for treating the ill health and social costs of their habits. Chronic diseases associated with old age are far more expensive than the lethal diseases associated with smoking and alcohol excess.


• The ( worldwide ) decline in smoking over the past 50 years; and ( UK but not Philippines ) overall alcohol consumption over the past 10 years, is due to factors other than taxation. Britain’s alcohol problems - binge drinking by the young, and daily excessive consumption by middle-class home drinkers - are not curable by minimum pricing.


• Governments like sin taxes. The main purpose is to raise revenue – by forcing people who are least likely to live to old age to pay for the escalating costs of an ageing population. A means-tested health tax, hypothecated ( ring-fenced ) for improving health, would be more honest.


• Sin taxes are counterproductive. They discourage serious and honest attempts to improve health, and encourage the black market. They are also cynically applied to some – but not all - “ unhealthy sins “.



• The implicit assumption in the Philippines Sin Tax Bill is that the population will continue at the same rate of smoking, guaranteeing revenue … until their premature deaths. That’s immoral, unethical and defeatist ! Will they genuinely be pleased if fewer people smoke and the sin tax revenue declines ?


• I’m also in favour of freedom of choice and don’t judge people on their chosen lifestyles, but I do encourage healthy living. The way forward ? - HEALTH PROMOTION, SCREENING, and INSURANCE .

[fred]

Here is what I said less than a couple of months ago on another thread ( http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/41906-PNoy-smoking-habit-and-sin-tax?highlight=PNoy+smoking )
It attracted little attention at the time. I’m sorry, but as I explained in another thread, with my other commitments I’m unable to reply – or add anything significant - to every new thread on related topics.




• Sin taxes are an unreliable way of reducing consumption or improving public health. They are regressive – taking a proportionally greater amount from those on lower incomes.


• Smokers and heavy drinkers may cost the state more during their shorter than average lives. At least the sin taxes they raise pay for treating the ill health and social costs of their habits. Chronic diseases associated with old age are far more expensive than the lethal diseases associated with smoking and alcohol excess.


• The ( worldwide ) decline in smoking over the past 50 years; and ( UK but not Philippines ) overall alcohol consumption over the past 10 years, is due to factors other than taxation. Britain’s alcohol problems - binge drinking by the young, and daily excessive consumption by middle-class home drinkers - are not curable by minimum pricing.


• Governments like sin taxes. The main purpose is to raise revenue – by forcing people who are least likely to live to old age to pay for the escalating costs of an ageing population. A means-tested health tax, hypothecated ( ring-fenced ) for improving health, would be more honest.


• Sin taxes are counterproductive. They discourage serious and honest attempts to improve health, and encourage the black market. They are also cynically applied to some – but not all - “ unhealthy sins “.



• The implicit assumption in the Philippines Sin Tax Bill is that the population will continue at the same rate of smoking, guaranteeing revenue … until their premature deaths. That’s immoral, unethical and defeatist ! Will they genuinely be pleased if fewer people smoke and the sin tax revenue declines ?


• I’m also in favour of freedom of choice and don’t judge people on their chosen lifestyles, but I do encourage healthy living. The way forward ? - HEALTH PROMOTION, SCREENING, and INSURANCE .


Good post again Doc Alan!!
I have no real problem with this sin tax as I believe that as long as the Politicians are kept from diverting the proceeds to Switzerland, the extra funding will go into the seriously underfunded Philhealth system.. (along with funding for other important social programs) Ive watched the new administration very carefully over the last 6 months and I am generally impressed.. Hopefully they mean what they say in regards the proceeds from this new tax.. 40 Billion PHP will hopefully go a long way and do an awful lot of good..
Lets see.
Fred.

[Arthur Little]

This appears to be a pro smokers thread. You can pat each other on the back as much as you like, it won't change anything. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I wouldn't go as far as to say that exactly :NoNo: ... the fact remains, most of the respondents to this thread DON'T smoke ... but, regardless, nobody - but NOBODY - appreciates being told by "know-alls" and/or would be "do-gooders" how to conduct their lives. :nono-1-1: Understandably, it gets up peoples' noses - smokers and non-smokers alike (and more effectively than any plume of smoke is capable of doing - irrespective of HOW logical the argument or well-intentioned the motive(s).

I mean ... :anerikke: ... surely even you MUST realise that by now!

[lastlid]

Suit yourselves guys. I don't care anymore. Its your lives and health and the folk around you.

Feel free to abuse it in any way you wish.

[fred]

I wouldn't go as far as to say that exactly :NoNo: ... the fact remains, most of the respondents to this thread DON'T smoke ... but, regardless, nobody - but NOBODY - appreciates being told by "know-alls" and/or would be "do-gooders" how to conduct their lives. :nono-1-1: Understandably, it gets up peoples' noses - smokers & non-smokers alike (and more effectively than any plume of smoke is capable of doing - no matter HOW logical the argument or well-intentioned the motive(s).

I mean ... :anerikke: ... surely even you MUST realise that by now!

Well said Arthur.. I couldn't agree more.
I think they are running out of argument.

[bigmarco]

I wouldn't go as far as to say that exactly :NoNo: ... the fact remains, most of the respondents to this thread DON'T smoke ... but, regardless, nobody - but NOBODY - appreciates being told by "know-alls" and/or would be "do-gooders" how to conduct their lives. :nono-1-1: Understandably, it gets up peoples' noses - smokers and non-smokers alike (and more effectively than any plume of smoke is capable of doing - irrespective of HOW logical the argument or well-intentioned the motive(s).

I mean ... :anerikke: ... surely even you MUST realise that by now!

Good man Arthur. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lastlid]

Smoking.

It constricts the airways of the lungs.

It increases the smoker's heart rate.

It elevates the smoker's blood pressure.

Smoking contributes to heart disease.

And it deprives the tissues of the smoker's body of much-needed oxygen

It increases the risk of stroke by nearly 40% among men and 60% among women.

Smoking is an addiction.

Tobacco smoke contains nicotine, a drug that is addictive and can make it very hard, but not impossible, to quit

Smoking harms not just the smoker, but also family members, coworkers and others who breathe the smoker's cigarette smoke, called secondhand smoke.

Among infants to 18 months of age, secondhand smoke is associated with as many as 300,000 cases of bronchitis and pneumonia each year. Secondhand smoke from a parent's cigarette increases a child's chances for middle ear problems, causes coughing and wheezing, and worsens asthma conditions.

Pregnant women who smoke are more likely to deliver babies whose weights are too low for the baby's good health. If all women quit smoking during pregnancy, about 4,000 new babies would not die each year.

Quitting smoking makes a difference right away - you can taste and smell food better. Your breath smells better.

Smokng Kills - Every year hundreds of thousands of people around the world die from diseases caused by smoking cigarettes.

One in two lifetime smokers will die from their habit. Half of these deaths will occur in middle age.

Tobacco smoke also contributes to a number of cancers.

The mixture of nicotine and carbon monoxide in each cigarette you smoke temporarily increases your heart rate and blood pressure, straining your heart and blood vessels.

This can cause heart attacks and stroke. It slows your blood flow, cutting off oxygen to your feet and hands. Some smokers end up having their limbs amputated.

Tar coats your lungs like soot in a chimney and causes cancer. A 20-a-day smoker breathes in up to a full cup (210 g) of tar in a year.

Changing to low-tar cigarettes does not help because smokers usually take deeper puffs and hold the smoke in for longer, dragging the tar deeper into their lungs.

Carbon monoxide robs your muscles, brain and body tissue of oxygen, making your whole body and especially your heart work harder. Over time, your airways swell up and let less air into your lungs.

Smoking causes disease and is a slow way to die. The strain of smoking effects on the body often causes years of suffering. Emphysema is an illness that slowly rots your lungs. People with emphysema often get bronchitis again and again, and suffer lung and heart failure.

Lung cancer from smoking is caused by the tar in tobacco smoke. Men who smoke are ten times more likely to die from lung cancer than non-smokers.

Heart disease and strokes are also more common among smokers.

Smoking causes fat deposits to narrow and block blood vessels which leads to heart attack.

Smoking causes around one in five deaths from heart disease.

In younger people, three out of four deaths from heart disease are due to smoking.

Cigarette smoking during pregnancy increases the risk of low birth weight, prematurity, spontaneous abortion, and perinatal mortality in humans, which has been referred to as the fetal tobacco syndrome.

As a smoker, you're at risk for cancer of the mouth. Tobacco smoke can also cause gum disease, tooth decay and bad breath. The teeth become unsightly and yellow. Smokers may experience frequent headaches. And lack of oxygen and narrowed blood vessels to the brain can lead to strokes.

Moving down to your chest, smoke passes through the bronchi, or breathing tubes. Hydrogen cyanide and other chemicals in the smoke attack the lining of the bronchi, inflaming them and causing that chronic smoker's cough. Because the bronchi are weakened, you're more likely to get bronchial infections. Mucus secretion in your lungs is impaired, also leading to chronic coughing. Smokers are 10 times as likely to get lung cancer and emphysema as nonsmokers.

The effects of smoking on your heart are devastating. Nicotine raises blood pressure and makes the blood clot more easily. Carbon monoxide robs the blood of oxygen and leads to the development of cholesterol deposits on the artery walls. All of these effects add up to an increased risk of heart attack. In addition, the poor circulation resulting from cholesterol deposits can cause strokes, loss of circulation in fingers and toes and impotence.

The digestive system is also affected. The tars in smoke can trigger cancer of the esophagus and throat.

Smoking causes increased stomach acid secretion, leading to heartburn and ulcers.

Smokers have higher rates of deadly pancreatic cancer. Many of the carcinogens from cigarettes are excreted in the urine where their presence can cause bladder cancer, which is often fatal. High blood pressure from smoking can damage the kidneys.

The toxins that build up in your system contribute to feelings of lethargy. But instantly, after just one cigarette, the body's ability to function decreases, which means erections can be a problem. It also affects libido and general desire, as smoking massively effects the hormonal balance, and testosterone levels are responsible for libido.

To cap it all it is a dirty habit, ruins clothing and decorations. And is an addiction like any other. And like all addictions the addict will always justify their habit even when it affects others.

Not being judgemental. Just stating what is commonly known.

Far be it for me to judge, you be the judge of your own destiny.

[stevewool]

Not high and mighty. Just aware. Obviously it helps that I don't smoke to have a detached view but I am firmly against smoking and have good reason to be. Thats it.

Difference in the women? One smoked and the other doesn't. :biggrin:

If you have kids that have suffered from smoking related illnesses then it does focus your mind as an anti-smoker.

i am glad someone else mentioned this,we all have made mistakes in the past whether its smoking or anything, its what happens now, like i said no one smokes in my house and if my grandkids are here then they are safe from smoke, but once out of my sight its down to their own family or parents, i will do my best for any child, just like many on here would,but if you smoke it does not make you a bad parent, just remember that

[stevewool]

remember drink driving, whos walked across a busy main road with there kids in tow and not used the crossing,who feeds there kids with big macs everyday, everyday we put our kids babys and ourselves through danger, you are right lastlid, smoking is bad for you and your children and your clothes and its even worst for kissing too, but some people just cannot give it up, thank god i never started

[bigmarco]

Smoking.

It constricts the airways of the lungs.

It increases the smoker's heart rate.

It elevates the smoker's blood pressure.

Smoking contributes to heart disease.

And it deprives the tissues of the smoker's body of much-needed oxygen

It increases the risk of stroke by nearly 40% among men and 60% among women.

Smoking is an addiction.

Tobacco smoke contains nicotine, a drug that is addictive and can make it very hard, but not impossible, to quit

Smoking harms not just the smoker, but also family members, coworkers and others who breathe the smoker's cigarette smoke, called secondhand smoke.

Among infants to 18 months of age, secondhand smoke is associated with as many as 300,000 cases of bronchitis and pneumonia each year. Secondhand smoke from a parent's cigarette increases a child's chances for middle ear problems, causes coughing and wheezing, and worsens asthma conditions.

Pregnant women who smoke are more likely to deliver babies whose weights are too low for the baby's good health. If all women quit smoking during pregnancy, about 4,000 new babies would not die each year.

Quitting smoking makes a difference right away - you can taste and smell food better. Your breath smells better.

Smokng Kills - Every year hundreds of thousands of people around the world die from diseases caused by smoking cigarettes.

One in two lifetime smokers will die from their habit. Half of these deaths will occur in middle age.

Tobacco smoke also contributes to a number of cancers.

The mixture of nicotine and carbon monoxide in each cigarette you smoke temporarily increases your heart rate and blood pressure, straining your heart and blood vessels.

This can cause heart attacks and stroke. It slows your blood flow, cutting off oxygen to your feet and hands. Some smokers end up having their limbs amputated.

Tar coats your lungs like soot in a chimney and causes cancer. A 20-a-day smoker breathes in up to a full cup (210 g) of tar in a year.

Changing to low-tar cigarettes does not help because smokers usually take deeper puffs and hold the smoke in for longer, dragging the tar deeper into their lungs.

Carbon monoxide robs your muscles, brain and body tissue of oxygen, making your whole body and especially your heart work harder. Over time, your airways swell up and let less air into your lungs.

Smoking causes disease and is a slow way to die. The strain of smoking effects on the body often causes years of suffering. Emphysema is an illness that slowly rots your lungs. People with emphysema often get bronchitis again and again, and suffer lung and heart failure.

Lung cancer from smoking is caused by the tar in tobacco smoke. Men who smoke are ten times more likely to die from lung cancer than non-smokers.

Heart disease and strokes are also more common among smokers.

Smoking causes fat deposits to narrow and block blood vessels which leads to heart attack.

Smoking causes around one in five deaths from heart disease.

In younger people, three out of four deaths from heart disease are due to smoking.

Cigarette smoking during pregnancy increases the risk of low birth weight, prematurity, spontaneous abortion, and perinatal mortality in humans, which has been referred to as the fetal tobacco syndrome.

As a smoker, you're at risk for cancer of the mouth. Tobacco smoke can also cause gum disease, tooth decay and bad breath. The teeth become unsightly and yellow. Smokers may experience frequent headaches. And lack of oxygen and narrowed blood vessels to the brain can lead to strokes.

Moving down to your chest, smoke passes through the bronchi, or breathing tubes. Hydrogen cyanide and other chemicals in the smoke attack the lining of the bronchi, inflaming them and causing that chronic smoker's cough. Because the bronchi are weakened, you're more likely to get bronchial infections. Mucus secretion in your lungs is impaired, also leading to chronic coughing. Smokers are 10 times as likely to get lung cancer and emphysema as nonsmokers.

The effects of smoking on your heart are devastating. Nicotine raises blood pressure and makes the blood clot more easily. Carbon monoxide robs the blood of oxygen and leads to the development of cholesterol deposits on the artery walls. All of these effects add up to an increased risk of heart attack. In addition, the poor circulation resulting from cholesterol deposits can cause strokes, loss of circulation in fingers and toes and impotence.

The digestive system is also affected. The tars in smoke can trigger cancer of the esophagus and throat.

Smoking causes increased stomach acid secretion, leading to heartburn and ulcers.

Smokers have higher rates of deadly pancreatic cancer. Many of the carcinogens from cigarettes are excreted in the urine where their presence can cause bladder cancer, which is often fatal. High blood pressure from smoking can damage the kidneys.

The toxins that build up in your system contribute to feelings of lethargy. But instantly, after just one cigarette, the body's ability to function decreases, which means erections can be a problem. It also affects libido and general desire, as smoking massively effects the hormonal balance, and testosterone levels are responsible for libido.

To cap it all it is a dirty habit, ruins clothing and decorations. And is an addiction like any other. And like all addictions the addict will always justify their habit even when it affects others.

Not being judgemental. Just stating what is commonly known.

Far be it for me to judge, you be the judge of your own destiny.

:censored: me you've gone from a politician to a school teacher.

[andy222]

I know this is off topic a bit but (and I will probably get slaughtered for saying this) I disagreed with the total ban on smoking in pubs.

[stevewool]

i knew a guy who smoked more then 40 fags a day, who died while smoking, he was crossing the road when a number 60 bus hit him, did fags kill him who knows

[stevewool]

I know this is off topic a bit but (and I will probably get slaughtered for saying this) I disagreed with the total ban on smoking in pubs.

if you class a pub as being the outside too, its not banned in derby, most people stand outside the door chuffing so you still have to walk through the stink, i enjoy the no smoking in pubs but it would not stop me going into a pub that ever allowed smoking again

[stevewool]

did they ever have smoking rooms in pubs, or was it just the bar and lounge

[lastlid]

Smoking and impotence
"For men in their 30s and 40s, smoking increases the risk of erectile dysfunction (ED) by about 50 per cent.
Did you know?
The British Medical Association estimates that up to 120,000 men have ED because of smoking.
Erection can't occur unless blood can flow freely into the penis, so these blood vessels have to be in good condition.
Smoking can damage the blood vessels and cause them to degenerate: nicotine narrows the arteries that lead to the penis, reducing blood flow and the pressure of blood in the penis.
This narrowing effect increases over time, so if you haven't got problems now, things could change later.
Erection problems in smokers may be an early warning signal that cigarettes are already damaging other areas of the body – such as the blood vessels that supply the heart."


Read more: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/health_advice/facts/smokehealth.htm#ixzz2EsMwEwfq
Follow us: @NetDoctor on Twitter | NetDoctorUK on Facebook

[andy222]

if you class a pub as being the outside too, its not banned in derby, most people stand outside the door chuffing so you still have to walk through the stink, i enjoy the no smoking in pubs but it would not stop me going into a pub that ever allowed smoking again
Most pubs cater for smokers outside Steve but I am going on the social aspect of things too. As you know a lot of pubs have closed now and it was not the price of beer that sent them to the wall. When I was 18 there was nothing more british than going to the pub and a pint and a fag. It was a part of life. What smoker wants to stand outside having a fag in the freezing cold? Thats what closed the pubs down.

[andy222]

Smoking and impotence
"For men in their 30s and 40s, smoking increases the risk of erectile dysfunction (ED) by about 50 per cent.
Did you know?
The British Medical Association estimates that up to 120,000 men have ED because of smoking.
Erection can't occur unless blood can flow freely into the penis, so these blood vessels have to be in good condition.
Smoking can damage the blood vessels and cause them to degenerate: nicotine narrows the arteries that lead to the penis, reducing blood flow and the pressure of blood in the penis.
This narrowing effect increases over time, so if you haven't got problems now, things could change later.
Erection problems in smokers may be an early warning signal that cigarettes are already damaging other areas of the body – such as the blood vessels that supply the heart."


Read more: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/health_advice/facts/smokehealth.htm#ixzz2EsMwEwfq
Follow us: @NetDoctor on Twitter | NetDoctorUK on Facebook
And I agree Lastlid smoking is bad.

[stevewool]

i have no problems in that area, all i need is a wink from my Em and the blood just flows just like the water going over Niagra falls

[bigmarco]

Most pubs cater for smokers outside Steve but I am going on the social aspect of things too. As you know a lot of pubs have closed now and it was not the price of beer that sent them to the wall. When I was 18 there was nothing more british than going to the pub and a pint and a fag. It was a part of life. What smoker wants to stand outside having a fag in the freezing cold? Thats what closed the pubs down.

Pubs and Bingo Halls Andy. Two industries that complained at the time but typically they were ignored.

[lastlid]

Tobacco display ban in Scotland to begin in April 2013

"A ban on the display of cigarettes in Scotland's shops will come into force in April 2013 after a tobacco firm lost its legal fight to stop the move.

Imperial Tobacco challenged Scottish ministers at the Supreme Court.

A panel of five judges unanimously ruled against the company, saying its challenges were not well-founded.

The Scottish government said the judgement cleared the way for the ban's introduction, which it plans for spring next year."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20691956

[andy222]

To me we cant win. They advise you to stop smoking because it kills you then they moan we are living longer and it costs a lot of money to care for us. :doh. Bringing back smoking in pubs and bingo halls? Wouldnt that bring the population numbers down?:biggrin:

[stevewool]

Bringing back smoking in pubs and bingo halls? Wouldnt that bring the population numbers down?

:biggrin: nice :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[fred]

Most pubs cater for smokers outside Steve but I am going on the social aspect of things too. As you know a lot of pubs have closed now and it was not the price of beer that sent them to the wall. When I was 18 there was nothing more british than going to the pub and a pint and a fag. It was a part of life. What smoker wants to stand outside having a fag in the freezing cold? Thats what closed the pubs down.

I left in 2007.. So happy to say ,I was never forced to experience a no smoking pub and still cant imagine it. Must be terrible.
This is what I think..
For those that like taking their kids inside Pubs and who like drinking inside a clinical non smoking environment there should be such places in a free society..
For those who like to walk into a traditional British Boozer with a genuine atmosphere(which is no place for kids except in a beer garden on a hot Sunday afternoon) then why cant this group of people enjoy their freedom to do that?
I always thought the British were free people living in a fair market, capitalist economy where they could vote with their feet and spend their OWN money where they wished?
If such freedoms were again granted,how many no smoking pubs would survive?
I really hope that many would!! That way those who prefer the more traditional pubs would not have to be followed around by some of the whinging nagging nursemaids amongst them..
Thats the last thing they need when they are trying to enjoy a quiet pint or two!! F... me!!!!!
If the non smoking pubs did survive then that would mean the demand for them made a viable business which would be good.. Same goes for where I would prefer to drink..

But no. Big Government has taken away the Brits right to choose and IMO this is the thin end of the wedge.. Its very sad watching my Country slide into a big brother nanny state but Ive witnessed it happening for years..
I really miss the old country.. Farewell old friend.

For those non smoker wannabe nurses and do gooders wishing or thinking about living in the Philippines one day,perhaps this is not really the place for you..
You choose!

[London_Manila]

The smoking ban went way too far in my opinion.......
There could have been smoking pubs and non smoking pubs with the publican allowed to choose

There is meant to be a smoking ban in Makati but i never did see any evidence of it

[lastlid]

How are the grumpy old men and "I am alright Jacks" in Smokers Corner today? :biggrin:

Still full of self justification? Addicts, by their very nature are selfish people. You wont see that on the back of a fag packet but it is common knowledge.

[fred]

How are the grumpy old men and "I am alright Jacks" in Smokers Corner today? :biggrin:

Still full of self justification? Addicts, by their very nature are selfish people. You wont see that on the back of a fag packet but it is common knowledge.

Now now Lastlid...If you Lose your temper then you lose the argument!!
Oh.. I forgot..You dont have one do you!! :doh
:icon_lol:

[lastlid]

Now now Lastlid...If you Lose your temper then you lose the argument!!
Oh.. I forgot..You dont have one do you!! :doh
:icon_lol:

I haven't lost my temper. You "lost the argument" some time ago when you exercised a choice to smoke regardless of the consequences. Cheap fags in the Philippines isnt the solution.

It isn't an argument. It is your life and health and that of those around you that is at stake.

You can lead the horse to water but you cant make them drink the water.

Carry on smoking! :biggrin:

[lastlid]

Fred. Forget your silly badges or your threats on banning. Ban me if you wish. I dont care.

Go and have a fag. Might make you more amenable.

[fred]

Fred. Forget your silly badges or your threats on banning. Ban me if you wish. I dont care.

Go and have a fag. Might make you more amenable.

Excuse me? I threatened you with what?
when?
Please provide valid links or simply quote the offending post that you think you saw. Thank you.

[lastlid]

Excuse me? I threatened you with what?
when?
Please provide valid links or simply quote the offending post that you think you saw. Thank you.

Fred. Do what you (collectively) like. If you want to remove someone that has an opposing view to you, why not. Do as you see fit.

[fred]

Fred. Do what you (collectively) like. If you want to remove someone that has an opposing view to you, why not. Do as you see fit.

Lastlid..
Just because I have a strong opposing view to yours,does not mean that we cannot discuss it like adults.
You are acting like a little girl who has lost her sweeties..
Now post the Quote or add a link to your accusation that I have threatened to ban you..
Or be a man and admit that you made it up.

[raynaputi]

How are the grumpy old men and "I am alright Jacks" in Smokers Corner today? :biggrin:

Still full of self justification? Addicts, by their very nature are selfish people. You wont see that on the back of a fag packet but it is common knowledge.

No matter what you say about side effects of smoking, you can't force someone to quit smoking. It's their choice. Some people can quit but there are some who can't. You can only give them advice but forcing them to accept your views and these harmful side effects won't be effective. You have to let them do it at their own will not because it's what you want.

I don't smoke and never did get influenced by friends or relatives who do. I really can't stand the smell though. But I'm perfectly healthy (well as of now as I don't know what would happen to me in the future). In my family, my parents don't smoke, but my older sister occasionally does and one of my brothers tried using the e-cig for a few times but then reverted back to a real ciggie. I also have uncles who smoke, but the rest doesn't. We can't tell them to stop as it's their choice, and they know the harmful effects it can do. BUT we always tell them never to smoke when my nephews are around. If they can't help it, they know that they can go out of the house or walk far enough away from the kids.

We had a sari-sari store in Manila. Even though we don't smoke, still we sold cigarettes. It's a demand in the neighbourhood. We don't want to be a hypocrite as we needed the money from it (among the other stuffs to sell), and it's one of the easiest money even for a small amount (neighbours buy one at a time but then they keep on buying a lot at the end of the day). Sad to say that there are kids back home who buy ciggies for their parents or a neighbour that eventually learns how to light a ciggie at such a young age, but it's the responsibilities of the parents to educate their kids about it. Although we don't sell any beers or alcoholic drinks as my parents don't want our neighbours getting drunk in front of the house especially as me and my sister are usually the ones left to tend the store if my parents are out.

[bigmarco]

How are the grumpy old men and "I am alright Jacks" in Smokers Corner today? :biggrin:

Still full of self justification? Addicts, by their very nature are selfish people. You wont see that on the back of a fag packet but it is common knowledge.

Fine thanks. Just got off my train in High Barnet and enjoying a cuppa and a couple of fags.
Wow and there was you telling us yesterday that you were not being judgemental :yikes:

[lastlid]

No matter what you say about side effects of smoking, you can't force someone to quit smoking. It's their choice. Some people can quit but there are some who can't. You can only give them advice but forcing them to accept your views and these harmful side effects won't be effective. You have to let them do it at their own will not because it's what you want.

I don't smoke and never did get influenced by friends or relatives who do. I really can't stand the smell though. But I'm perfectly healthy (well as of now as I don't know what would happen to me in the future). In my family, my parents don't smoke, but my older sister occasionally does and one of my brothers tried using the e-cig for a few times but then reverted back to a real ciggie. I also have uncles who smoke, but the rest doesn't. We can't tell them to stop as it's their choice, and they know the harmful effects it can do. BUT we always tell them never to smoke when my nephews are around. If they can't help it, they know that they can go out of the house or walk far enough away from the kids.

We had a sari-sari store in Manila. Even though we don't smoke, still we sold cigarettes. It's a demand in the neighbourhood. We don't want to be a hypocrite as we needed the money from it (among the other stuffs to sell), and it's one of the easiest money even for a small amount (neighbours buy one at a time but then they keep on buying a lot at the end of the day). Sad to say that there are kids back home who buy ciggies for their parents or a neighbour that eventually learns how to light a ciggie at such a young age, but it's the responsibilities of the parents to educate their kids about it. Although we don't sell any beers or alcoholic drinks as my parents don't want our neighbours getting drunk in front of the house especially as me and my sister are usually the ones left to tend the store if my parents are out.


I dont agree. Smokers can be told, will be told and are being told what they should and shouldnt do when it comes to smoking. UK law is telling them so. The UK is not the only country in the world that is slowly but surely clamping down on the smokers. Philippine law will follow suit eventually, I am sure.

Nice also to see the Scottish government banning the display of cigarettes in shops.

Hopefully the ban on driving and smoking with kids in the back will be brought in.

Listening to the opinion of the pro smokers on here only goes to show that we need those laws in place to protect the non smokers and the kids.

The important thing is the passive smoking kids. For that reason I for one will never agree with the argument of a smoking addict.

Maybe the NHS should backcharge the smokers for treating their ailments. Then that might make a difference to their attitudes. After all I have seen a lot of opinion on here that is identical when it comes to drinkers, drug addicts and over eaters. Why should smoking get special dispensation?

[lastlid]

Lastlid..
Just because I have a strong opposing view to yours,does not mean that we cannot discuss it like adults.
You are acting like a little girl who has lost her sweeties..
Now post the Quote or add a link to your accusation that I have threatened to ban you..
Or be a man and admit that you made it up.

On the contrary, my stance is the responsible one.

I have seen you in action with London_ Manila. Someone who had a point and an opinion that differed from others. It seems to be a common theme. In this case you threatened.

I am sure you havent forgotten but I will leave you to check your thread out in case you have forgotten.

[fred]

On the contrary, my stance is the responsible one.

I have seen you in action with London_ Manila. Someone who had a point and an opinion that differed from others. It seems to be a common theme. In this case you threatened.

I am sure you havent forgotten but I will leave you to check your thread out in case you have forgotten.

I have no respect .....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Jelly_cc11.jpg/220px-Jelly_cc11.jpg



for someone that has no backbone.. sorry.
Watch your accusations in future...
Mr Jellyfish.

[fred]

Final words... Thread... closed.