Connecticut primary school shooting

[Terpe]

Another hugely tragic shooting.
So upsetting and for me, unfathomable.

This is still breaking news now but suggesting 27 fatalities, a large number of which could be children.


Many people, including children, are reported to have died in a shooting attack at a primary school in the US state of Connecticut, US media says.


Source:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20730717[/QUOTE]

[Tawi2]

School spree killing reminiscent of the homosexual Thomas Hamilton's Dunblane atrocity,poor kids.

[grahamw48]

Good god.

Time the idiot Americans brought their gun laws into the 21st century. :NoNo:

[andy222]

I dont like mondays. Oooops its friday today. They are crazy over there. But how long before it starts here big time. When america sneezes we catch cold.

[raynaputi]

Poor kids..:bigcry: such a trauma to them at a very young age..:NoNo:

[Tawi2]

But how long before it starts here big time.
Happened here several times,Michael Ryan,Derek Bird,Thomas hamilton etc,big difference is we arent allowed private pistol ownership nor automatic weapons,plus we arent allowed unlimited ammo for a centre-fire,plod has to come to your house before an FAC is issued,you get a visit by your FLO :smile: The states is different,visit a bass-pro or cabelas or one of their ranges and you can fire whatever you want,at one range you can even fire a flamethrower or shoot a mini-gun from a helicopter :yikes:

[les_taxi]

Terrible news:NoNo:

[Terpe]

I'm still listening to the news about this.

It seems he was know to the school since he was 'buzzed' in via security.
There are suggestions that when his home address was searched a body was found.

It's reported he was a 20 year old. Not confirmed but is 20 old enough to legally purchase a military style assault weapon??
I don't know.

I'm sure that gun controls will become a much debated hot topic again.
In fact I believe that there was recently a ban on this type of weapon but the ban expired and was not renewed. Maybe Obama will reinstate it now.

In US there's a very powerful 'gun-lobby' who will once again reply with their traditional approach that guns don't kill but people do.

I'm also sure school security will come under scrutiny again.

I just wonder how these small kids are going to understand what happened at their school.

My thoughts and condolences go out to all those parents and family members who have been touched by this barbaric mayhem.
Just shocking.

I know from my own personal experience that their Christmas times will never ever be the same again.

[Tawi2]

Not confirmed but is 20 old enough to legally purchase a military style assault weapon??
Depends what he used,for a fully automatic stateside you normally have to be 21 I think?

[raynaputi]

Shooter is a 24 year old guy..his mom was a teacher in the school and he shot her while in the class..:NoNo: He shot his dad too in their home before going to the school. :NoNo:

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248197/Sandy-Hook-elementary-shooting-29-dead-including-22-children-Connecticut-school.html

[Terpe]

As this story unfolds it becomes ever more complicated, tragic and sad.
Hard to imagine how to manage such an event.

Hard to image how anyone can manage

[grahamw48]

Let's hope Obama's tears result in action.

The only people who need guns in this world are SOME law enforcement personnel and the military.:NoNo:

[Tawi2]

No,guns dont kill people,people kill people,a weapon is only as safe or as dangerous as the person on the trigger,ban guns and fruitloops will use another form of weapon be it vehicle,twine or a hammer,whatever is at hand,how many people reading this are aware that a guy in china today stabbed 22 children and a teacher?What do we do?Ban butter knives?Its the person and the intention,you can make a gun with a few basic tools,but we dont ban lathes,RIP the kids and obamas tears are crocodile,I bet he didnt shed one single drop for collateral damage iraq or afghan kids.

[rusty]

No,guns dont kill people,people kill people,a weapon is only as safe or as dangerous as the person on the trigger,ban guns and fruitloops will use another form of weapon be it vehicle,twine or a hammer,whatever is at hand,how many people reading this are aware that a guy in china today stabbed 22 children and a teacher?What do we do?Ban butter knives?Its the person and the intention,you can make a gun with a few basic tools,but we dont ban lathes,RIP the kids and obamas tears are crocodile,I bet he didnt shed one single drop for collateral damage iraq or afghan kids.

The big difference is that in China they were only wounded, not 27 dead.

I agree that there will always bit sick people who want to hurt people but if guns are not easily available then there might be less fatalities?

[bigmarco]

I just think the US has lost the plot when it comes to guns. I remember seeing a Michael Moore film/documentary where he went into a bank to open a new account and they gave you a choice of free guns to choose from. The member of staff didn't think it was the least bit strange for a Bank to be offering free guns.
As tragic as this event is and it looks terrible on the BBC I don't think it will change a thing over there regarding ownership. There are organisations like the NRA prepared to spend an awful lot of money protecting peoples constitutional right to own guns.

[joebloggs]

why would anyone need to own a gun :crazy: for what valid reason would you need to, at least a butter knife has a purpose, and how many people go to A&E because of a accident with a knife?, accidents will happen with guns then.

also i doubt you could kill 27 people with a knife before someone had stopped you.

next manslaughter and murder, many of these killers will claim it was manslaughter i suppose you have to be :crazy: to do it, in the first place, but the excuse is they didn't plan to do it, for whatever reason they snapped, and with a gun you can killer many people in a short period of time compared with a knife..

i thought we had a 5yr prison sentence for carrying a unlicensed gun in the UK, i hope so, guns are only meant for one thing to kill while a butter knife is not.

[Tawi2]

but if guns are not easily available
This isnt about gun legislation at the moment,this is about loss of life and mental scarrong of small children,the most innocent members of society but,there will be no lockdown on gun-numbers in the states,thats a fact,there might,note that word might be a slight change in legislation regarding military type weapons,but no president will ever rescind the constitutional right to keep and bear arms in our lifetime,thats just not going to happen.The guy was autistic and carrying two pistols and an assault rifle all legally owned by his mother,the pistols were standard semi autos with 15-17 round magazines,the assault rifle had a 25-30 shot magazine capacity,there are millions of these type of weapons held in the states,people do not want to give them up,militia groups and individuals have tens of thousands of weapons cached away,guns are here to stay,thats just how it is,my thoughts are with any child at this time of year suffering trauma,the children at the primary school,the children in the chinese stabbing,the children who lost everything in compostela valley during the typhoon,this isnt about guns or knives or somilar,this is about kids.

[Tawi2]

The butter knife analogy wasnt a good one and I apologise to graham for that as it was in answer to his post,I was logging off,I should have said bowie knife or lock knife or ice-axe or samurai sword,remember the old truism,if guns are criminalised only criminals will have guns,you cant second guess someone having a melt-down and running amok with whatever is at hand,but the states wont ban guns whatever anyone says or thinks,look at pinas,you have to have a very good reason to own a weapon yet a lot of guys I know over there have one squirrelled away somewhere,its too late to cage the beast we originally released.

[grahamw48]

My best friend of many years was a licensed gun dealer (in the days when you could own virtually anything in this country too).

I used to go shooting with him at the gun club (using a .357 magnum revolver that he loaned me), also clay pigeon shooting and rifle shooting at an outdoor range, so it's not a kneejerk reaction on my part.

It's just that having met some of the characters/weirdos that are involved in the world of guns even in our country, it makes you become more aware of why laws need to be stricter and why they WERE made stricter in the UK.

True, the nutter will always find a way, but just as putting better security systems on vehicles cut down on the numbers being stolen, then hopefully making guns less accessible on the 'spur of the moment'...that short period of madness that one day takes over the lunatic and enables him to go on the rampage, will save a few lives.

A start has to be made somewhere, even though change will take a very long time in the US.

[joebloggs]

i know what you meant tawi, i live on a council estate in Salford, i feel i've no need for a gun, if other people had guns or everyone else did, I'd probably have to get one to DEFEND myself and family.

if i was living in the Phils thats a different matter, first thing my misses dad told me, was he had a gun named after each of his 4 kids, one gun is just not enough :doh

[Tawi2]

One of my kids uncles was shot while on duty in Davao,he was shot four or five times,he survived,he is quite well known in Davao,he has a lot of legally held weapons because as you said "Ine gun just isnt enough".

[joebloggs]

this was mentioned on the russell howard show the other day..

carrying a gun is like carrying your mobile with you..

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/15/13296949-man-drops-gun-in-movie-theater-shooting-self-in-buttocks?lite

[joebloggs]

:yikes::cwm24:
poor kids, BBC news showing pictures of the little kids murdered :bigcry:

how the :censored: can a 20yr old murder so many kids, and how can he get access to the weapons, time to ban the gun, no valid reason for anyone to own one :NoNo:

[grahamw48]

The idiotic Americans live in a violent bubble of their own making. :NoNo:

The perpetrator's mother was a gun fanatic apparently. :icon_rolleyes:

[joebloggs]

the weapons industry is one of the biggest money makers in the USA i can hope it will be along time until we hear of another mass killing like this. :cwm24:

[bigmarco]

These incidents are happening all to often over there now. It's not to long ago that they were mourning a load of people killed in cold blood at a cinema and still they do nothing to change their incredibly stupid gun laws.
I don't subscribe to the defence that guns don't kill people it's people who kill people. Take away the gun and it's very difficult for any one nutcase to kill 27 people in such a short space of time.
There's only one way to stop these incidents happening as often as they do and if your not prepared to entertain that idea then lets all just sit back and wait for the next Adam Lanza to snap .

[Tawi2]

Anyone with a modicum of interest can go online,search and find explosive device info,visit their local hardware store and garden centre,then get on a bus like the 7/7 fruitloops,its people who kill people,take away one method and man is inventive in his destruction of fellow man.
Gun control in america isnt going to happen,since last weeks incident gun sales stateside have actually shown an INCREASE as people fore-arm (just in case),Obama hasnt once mentioned the words "Gun-ban" or "Gun-control" in any speech since the shootings BECAUSE its political suicide,its enshrined deeply in the psyche of the average american as it is in the second ammendment,theres 85-90 guns per 100 people in the states,you cant control those numbers,the guy used a glock a Sig and an AR-15 rifle I think?Glocks and Sigs are semi-auto pistols,there are millions of them in private hands stateside,how do you legislate against them?He might do something about certain types of guns or try and push a bill through against certain types but total gun bans or tight controls?Not going to happen.

[Tawi2]

I am in a bit of a rush to shower and get into London otherwise I would find the book,but I remember once reading that the first school spree- or rampage killing in the states was back in the 1920's,the guy used a bomb to kill 45-50 kids and injure an equal number,as I said,its people who kill people,man finds a way to do unspeakable things to his fellow man,no use blaming an inanimate object when its the person holding it who is the loose link,I think the bombers name was keogh?We cant legislate against murderous intent sadly.

[bigmarco]

Anyone with a modicum of interest can go online,search and find explosive device info,visit their local hardware store and garden centre,then get on a bus like the 7/7 fruitloops,its people who kill people,take away one method and man is inventive in his destruction of fellow man.
Gun control in america isnt going to happen,since last weeks incident gun sales stateside have actually shown an INCREASE as people fore-arm (just in case),Obama hasnt once mentioned the words "Gun-ban" or "Gun-control" in any speech since the shootings BECAUSE its political suicide,its enshrined deeply in the psyche of the average american as it is in the second ammendment,theres 85-90 guns per 100 people in the states,you cant control those numbers,the guy used a glock a Sig and an AR-15 rifle I think?Glocks and Sigs are semi-auto pistols,there are millions of them in private hands stateside,how do you legislate against them?He might do something about certain types of guns or try and push a bill through against certain types but total gun bans or tight controls?Not going to happen.

We're opposite ends of the same argument in that I believe if you take away the means to kill then that goes someway to solving the problem although I agree not entirely.
I agree with you that they will do nothing to curb the control of guns so perhaps instead of being up in arms about it the media should be a bit more laid back in their approach and instead concentrate more of their resources on a real human tragedy like Typhoon Bopha which has now claimed in excess of 1000's victims and still looks set to rise. After all these people can do nothing to avoid disasters like this.

[grahamw48]

10 children were blown up and killed by an old landmine in Afghanistan today.

[Tawi2]

Dispatches at 8pm on channel 4 has had a program change I think and is now going to be about the massacre and looking into USA gun-laws,should be worth a watch.
I saw that G,reports that a small girl had hit the mine with an axe while looking for firewood,anti-tank mine if its blast killed 10 children,seen ordnance like that for sale in jalalabad and over the border in Darra arms markets just after the russians left.

[grahamw48]

If countries laying mines were tasked with keeping accurate records and then having to recover each and every one...well, in a perfect world. :icon_rolleyes:

Likewise manufacturers of them wouldn't be quite such good marketers if they had to pay compensation for each life lost as a result of their deployment. :NoNo:

It's a dirty business and of course a HUGE one....ideally suited to this world full of greedy hypocrites.

[Tawi2]

It's a dirty business
I was in Cambodia in the 1990's and you could buy anti-personnel mines in certain places,the customers were normally farmers or similar who had grievances against their neighbours,set one on his footpath or property for revenge,its a strange world and no mistakes,that programs on now channel 4.

[Tawi2]

Theres a rise in AR-15 (Bushmaster) sales since last weeks massacre,and some stores are reporting large capacity magazines are selling out fast as rumours circulate that military style weapons and their magazines might have ownership reservations placed upon them as part of obamas firearms measures,somehow I cant see the folks currently buying them before a ban giving them up after tighter controls?Theres 200,000,000 legally held weapons in the states,incredible figure :yikes:

[grahamw48]

If chavs had their own country it would be called America. :NoNo:

[Michael Parnham]

I had never seen a real gun in my life until I went to Philippines, I must admit I could not understand why normal stores and banks even hospitals had armed security everywhere, It made me feel very afraid and uneasy at first until I got used to it, but it has no effect anymore!!

[grahamw48]

Ex-American colony. :icon_rolleyes:

You won't see many guns in Hong Kong, Malaysia or Singapore.

[blondie]

Anyone with a modicum of interest can go online,search and find explosive device info,visit their local hardware store and garden centre,then get on a bus like the 7/7 fruitloops,its people who kill people,take away one method and man is inventive in his destruction of fellow man.
Gun control in america isnt going to happen,since last weeks incident gun sales stateside have actually shown an INCREASE as people fore-arm (just in case),Obama hasnt once mentioned the words "Gun-ban" or "Gun-control" in any speech since the shootings BECAUSE its political suicide,its enshrined deeply in the psyche of the average american as it is in the second ammendment,theres 85-90 guns per 100 people in the states,you cant control those numbers,the guy used a glock a Sig and an AR-15 rifle I think?Glocks and Sigs are semi-auto pistols,there are millions of them in private hands stateside,how do you legislate against them?He might do something about certain types of guns or try and push a bill through against certain types but total gun bans or tight controls?Not going to happen.

Guns really HELP. I am with bigmarco on this one - don't forget the wide use of guns changed the face the earth. War used to be a fashonable thing until firepower was maximized out of proportion. I would say legislation helps - the gun industry doesn't make money of the kinda guy that goes around blowing up schools, sometimes people get ideas on how to kill everyone just because they have the possibility to do so!

[Michael Parnham]

Hi Graham, do they have armed security in America as they do in Philippines? I've been to Vancouver Island Canada and never saw any guns there!!

[grahamw48]

Yes, they do have armed guards in America (and armed business owners). Guns everywhere, though maybe not always in sight.

Canada is another recent colony of ours of course...so doesn' have quite the same daft attitude that has developed in the States, whereby they originally were given the right to bear arms in order to protect themselves from their own GOVERNMENT can you believe, and that is what is being dragged up now as an excuse. :NoNo:

[Michael Parnham]

I think the only good thing about America was the old 50's Rock &Roll music, like Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Frankie Ford ect ect:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

Agreed ! Blues too. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I'm a big fan of Drag Racing, so this brings to mind 'American Graffiti' the movie, where the two (music and hotrods) go together quite nicely. 'Driving along in my automobile' ....:biggrin::drivingx:

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF7dLKjKkhA

[Michael Parnham]

Great Stuff Graham!! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Michael Parnham]

Another mass shooting Today, New York this time!

[grahamw48]

What ?

My stepdaughter is in New York. :doh

You got a link ?

[Tawi2]

The shooting is in Webster,new york state,but no reports of any fatalities.

[grahamw48]

Thanks. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I'll have a look on Sky News.

[Terpe]

Another mass shooting Today, New York this time!

Webster shooting: Gunman hunted after shooting two firefighters dead at house blaze

A gunman was being hunted today after shooting two firefighters dead at a house blaze on Christmas Eve.

Two more were shot and injured during the incident in West Webster, New York.

Police said "one or more shooters" fired at the firefighters and were no longer at the scene.

Residents in Lake Road were evacuated.

More here (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/webster-shooting-gunman-hunted-after-1504657)

[bigmarco]

Webster shooting: Gunman hunted after shooting two firefighters dead at house blaze

A gunman was being hunted today after shooting two firefighters dead at a house blaze on Christmas Eve.

Two more were shot and injured during the incident in West Webster, New York.

Police said "one or more shooters" fired at the firefighters and were no longer at the scene.

Residents in Lake Road were evacuated.

More here (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/webster-shooting-gunman-hunted-after-1504657)

Sickening crime. To attack emergency services whilst they are responding is unforgivable . Their poor families what a terrible Christmas for them.

[Terpe]

My thoughts exactly Marco.

Just unfathomable as to what on earth was on his mind :NoNo: