More 13a info req

[bigtilly]

RE 13a

I have read elsewhere that from the 1st of December 2012, an alien who has resided in the Philippines for less than 6 months "shall attach to his application, police clearance from his country of origin". Would I be right in assuming that they are asking for a CRB check?

Bill

[fred]

Yeah,less than 6 months UK Police clearance( I think that a CRB is all the Old bill in the UK can issue but ask them as its so long now that I cant remember, All I seem to remember is that it took 4 months to get the damned thing!)..
More than 6 months you will need an NBI clearance.
Better now to apply in the UK IMO..

[Wiltshireman]

A person is unable to obtain a CRB check on themseves in the UK. The only possible way is either an expense via an agency, usually around £40 - £60 or by a Data Subject Access Request (DSAR or SAR) to the Police HQ in the area you live (costs £10)

Be aware with a SAR that this will contain every thing that the police hold on you including non criminal visits to your home and any arrests whether or not you have been charged, motoring tickets, parking tickets and cautions with the exception of the details of reasons for the penalties.

Example if you have been convicted to theft and sent to prison for 3 months your SAR will show as 1 x 3 months jail. You will then need to explain why

[jonnijon]

I presume you are applying from the UK. No police check if you do it from phills.

[fred]

I presume you are applying from the UK. No police check if you do it from phills.

Unfortunately this is not true.. They have been especially strict just lately..
Less than 6 months in R.P= UK Police clearance..
More than 6 months, UK Police clearance + NBI clearance.

[bigtilly]

A person is unable to obtain a CRB check on themseves in the UK. The only possible way is either an expense via an agency, usually around £40 - £60 or by a Data Subject Access Request (DSAR or SAR) to the Police HQ in the area you live (costs £10)

Be aware with a SAR that this will contain every thing that the police hold on you including non criminal visits to your home and any arrests wether or not you have been charged, motoring tickets, parking tickets and cautions with the exception of the details of reasons for the penalties.

Example if you have been convicted to theft and sent to prison for 3 months your SAR will show as 1 x 3 months jail. You will then need to explain why

Actually you CAN get a DBS (formerly CRB ) check for yourself now.

On the 1st of December 2012, the Criminal Records Bureau in the UK became the Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) and made it possible to obtain a Basic Disclosure for yourself at a cost of £25 pounds. It is available from https://www.disclosurescotland.co.uk/apply-online/ This service covers the whole of the UK and NOT just Scotland. Apparently there is a spoof website with a very similar address which will charge you £41 and simply re direct you to the proper site.

I received mine last Thursday and they are very quick. I then forwarded it to the Philippine Embassy, London, for Legalisation/Authentication at a cost of £18.

The more cynical amongst us may point to the Philippine Government simply seizing an opportunity to exploit us poor expats even further but, the British Government is no better, charging an eye watering £25 for a single sheet of headed A4 which must have take all of 2 minutes to produce.

[jonnijon]

Just done mine in phills no police check. seems strange as only two years ago i think they abolished police and health checks for applications in phills.

[Terpe]

Actually you CAN get a DBS (formerly CRB ) check for yourself now.

On the 1st of December 2012, the Criminal Records Bureau in the UK became the Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) and made it possible to obtain a Basic Disclosure for yourself at a cost of £25 pounds. It is available from https://www.disclosurescotland.co.uk/apply-online/ This service covers the whole of the UK and NOT just Scotland. Apparently there is a spoof website with a very similar address which will charge you £41 and simply re direct you to the proper site.

I received mine last Thursday and they are very quick. I then forwarded it to the Philippine Embassy, London, for Legalisation/Authentication at a cost of £18.

The more cynical amongst us may point to the Philippine Government simply seizing an opportunity to exploit us poor expats even further but, the British Government is no better, charging an eye watering £25 for a single sheet of headed A4 which must have take all of 2 minutes to produce.

Good post, good info and good link. Thank you :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Paul77]

I received mine last Thursday and they are very quick. I then forwarded it to the Philippine Embassy, London, for Legalisation/Authentication at a cost of £18.

Can you tell me the process i have to do when forwarded the police check to the embassy,i have to do the same and would just like to understand what exact actions i need to take.

[bigtilly]

Can you tell me the process i have to do when forwarded the police check to the embassy,i have to do the same and would just like to understand what exact actions i need to take.

Hi Paul,

Happy to help. This link will take you to where you want to be http://philembassy-uk.org/consular-matters/legalization

I had to read it a few times before it sank in (it's an age thing!) but in simple terms it means this: get an £18 postal order made payable to the Philippine Embassy (the Post Office counter staff can print this onto the postal order for you or just write it on) it will cost you about £20.50. Take 2 envelopes with you. 1 of them addressed to: The Authentication Section, Philippine Embassy, 6-8 Suffolk Street, London. SW1Y 4HG. Make the other one registered and address it to yourself. Not sure but I think it costs about £2 (Well it is 3 days ago) to make your self addressed envelope registered.

Bang Stamps on BOTH envelopes, whack everything into the one addressed to the Embassy and post it.

It is worth noting that you CAN'T pay for the postal order with your bank card so it is cash only. Yes I know, here we are in 2013, it's 44 years since we put men on the moon and we still can't pay for a postal order with our bank cards!! Unbelievable.

Hope this helps, Good luck mate. Bill

[Paul77]

Thanks Bill,that is really helpful for me.I was fortunate to see this thread because i didn't even know i had to do a CRB check but i've applyed for check and it's being processed now.

The requirement "He is not afflicted with any dangerous, contagious or loathsome disease."

Do i need to do anything for that? it wasn't mentioned as requirement when my fiancée rang immigration but is mentioned on immigration bureau website.

[Paul77]

Hi Bill,on your link what does this bit mean
All public documents sent by post to the Philippine Embassy that will be used in the Philippines must be notarized by a notary public or a commissioner of oath. The signature of the notary public/commissioner of oath must be authenticated by the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) or the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs (as the case applies).

[imagine]

these maybe things i need to learn for later,
hope no one minds me butting in to ask,

NBI clearance. is that philippine version of the uk CRB ?:Erm:

[imagine]

Paul,

To certify or attest to (the validity of a signature on a document,
i believe that the documents to be sent need to be certified by a sloicitor, that they are genuine , or genuine copies of the original document,
i think solicitor signs and stamps them , if im not right someone will correct me, or make it clearer

[fred]

This is all new to me...
I just received the document from the coppers and put it together with my other requirements including medical etc... They (the R.P embassy in London) accepted the Police clearance (or whatever it was) without asking me to have it authenticated.

NBI clearance. is that Philippine version of the uk CRB ?

You only need this if you are applying in the R.P.. Its a Philippine police clearance.
Much better to apply in the UK as you will receive a permanent visa..
Apply here and they will issue with a temporary visa good for one year...After that year you will need to apply to make it permanent. More expense and time wasting hassle!!

[fred]

To be honest the R.P embassy website is a piece of crap.. I downloaded the forms from it to be later advised that they were not the correct forms.. They had to send me them (really bad photo copies) to fill out..:doh
Just had a quick look on the site and still cant find them.
The other problem I had was contacting them by telephone..9 times out of ten it was an recorded voice telling me there was no one available etc.
For me the whole process was a pain in the ass..(especially the medical requirements)
100 Quid for Doctor..Another 100 notes for Xray About 4 days off work with travel expenses to and from London etc.
Hope I never have to go through that BS ever again.

[jonnijon]

If thats the cost of it all Fred its cheaper to do it in the Philippines.

[fred]

If thats the cost of it all Fred its cheaper to do it in the Philippines.

Yes it probably is... I would still highly recommend that if they do it here they take this CRB authenticated document with them as some new applicants here in the R.P have been asked to provide it..

[bigtilly]

Hi Bill,on your link what does this bit mean
All public documents sent by post to the Philippine Embassy that will be used in the Philippines must be notarized by a notary public or a commissioner of oath. The signature of the notary public/commissioner of oath must be authenticated by the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) or the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs (as the case applies).

Hi Paul,

This is my interpretation: It means that the Notary Public who, I suspect is part of the staff at the embassy, has been approved by the FCO and/or the IDFA to carry out such work. Of course, I may be wrong.

It is worth noting that a signature from a common or garden Solicitor is NOT the same and would not be acceptable. Some Solicitors are also Notary Publics but most are not. My recent Visa application had to be verified by either a Solicitor or Notary Public. My Solicitor charged me £5 to sign 2 documents but, had I gone to my local Notary Public, it would have been closer to £150. Those guys are not shy at charging top whack.

[bigtilly]

How I wish I had taken more notice at school!!

[Paul77]

Hi Paul,

This is my interpretation: It means that the Notary Public who, I suspect is part of the staff at the embassy, has been approved by the FCO and/or the IDFA to carry out such work. Of course, I may be wrong.

Hi Bill

I hope it means that, i could do without the time and cost of another notary public stamp from a solicitor here.

[bigtilly]

On the face of it, it makes the £18 the Embassy charge seem an absolute bargain as opposed to £150 elsewhere.

[bigtilly]

I am moving to Dipolog, Mindanao permanently at Easter and have been in 2 minds about the 13a visa for months.

The idea of renewing every 59 days is an expensive option and doesn't appeal at all so, I had planned on going down the Balikbayan route which of course has the added bonus of a short break every year. Some guys I know tell me the 13a is the way to go long term and I'm sure they are right, However, the more I search the ins and outs of applying for a 13a, the more confused I get. People saying you need this, others saying you need that. So, I thought I would obtain the police clearance which will give me 6 months grace before it expires to make up my mind.

I have the added problem of my local BOI in Dipolog only being manned on a part time basis (Tuesday and Friday) nowadays and I don't know if they will be able to process a 13a. Failing that, we would have to go to Cebu.

My local BOI is my first stop to get from the "horses mouth"" exactly what I need and take it from there.

Bill

[fred]

Bill..As I said..The process was a pain in the ass..
Thing is though,ever since I got the visa, it was/is a huge relief that all I need to do now is report once a year and pay 310.00 Pesos.
No pain no gain..
That said... Whatever works for you.:xxgrinning--00xx3:
Cheers,
Fred.

[imagine]

does anyone know if having the 13a . affects your right to uk state pension ? :Erm:

[mickmyrna]

NBI clearance. is that philippine version of the uk CRB ?:Erm:

Well yeah i think it is imagine ...

[Michael Parnham]

The NBI is the same as our CRB, also the 13A won't affect your state pension and you will also recieve your annual pension increases Imagine!:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[imagine]

The NBI is the same as our CRB, also the 13A won't affect your state pension and you will also recieve your annual pension increases Imagine!:xxgrinning--00xx3:

thanks michael, 6 years to go yet for pension, but the 13a will be needed sooner, so didnt want to risk my pension :biggrin::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Michael Parnham]

You're welcome Stewart! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[jake]

I am moving to Dipolog, Mindanao permanently at Easter and have been in 2 minds about the 13a visa for months.

The idea of renewing every 59 days is an expensive option and doesn't appeal at all so, I had planned on going down the Balikbayan route which of course has the added bonus of a short break every year. Some guys I know tell me the 13a is the way to go long term and I'm sure they are right, However, the more I search the ins and outs of applying for a 13a, the more confused I get. People saying you need this, others saying you need that. So, I thought I would obtain the police clearance which will give me 6 months grace before it expires to make up my mind.

I have the added problem of my local BOI in Dipolog only being manned on a part time basis (Tuesday and Friday) nowadays and I don't know if they will be able to process a 13a. Failing that, we would have to go to Cebu.

My local BOI is my first stop to get from the "horses mouth"" exactly what I need and take it from there.

Bill


Bill,
The reason you are getting confused about what people are telling you is some things can be written in law in the Philippines but not followed. Gets easier with time to understand the in's and out's.
The balikbayan route is not intended to be for people staying here on a permanent basis. The original purpose was for former citizens to return home without having to have a visa.
It is classed as temporary visitors visa and you would be required to have a return ticket prior to admission into the Philippines. It doesn't have to be dated as all they want to see is the person intends to leave the country. In theory all you need is a short trip to another asian country every year but they 'may' refuse your request one day.

The local BOI in Dipolog wont be able to process a 13a application. If you check the link below it will tell you where it can be done.
http://immigration.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=115&Itemid=61

If you apply in the Philippines it will involve 2 stages. First a years probationary period then you have to convert it to permanent. From what i have heard recently each stage would involve about 3 trips to immigration. Was at least 6 when i did mine in the 90's :icon_rolleyes:

http://immigration.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=115&Itemid=61

Good luck with which ever route you decide to take..

[jake]

does anyone know if having the 13a . affects your right to uk state pension ? :Erm:

If you do decide to retire here you wont be taxed on your pension.
Here is the list of countries that have a social security agreement with the UK.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/international/social-security-agreements/list-of-countries/

[bigtilly]

Hi Paul,

This is my interpretation: It means that the Notary Public who, I suspect is part of the staff at the embassy, has been approved by the FCO and/or the IDFA to carry out such work. Of course, I may be wrong.





I owe everyone an apology for giving out duff information. I AM wrong in my interpretation as I discovered when my Disclosure was returned by the Embassy today. They sent with it, a bulletin highlighting what I should have done. This link tells you what to do. http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/about-us/what-we-do/services-we-deliver/legal-services/Legalisation/030-Links/010-How-to-apply/

Sincere apologies to anyone who have already sent postal orders to the Embassy. All is not lost as you can cash them in yourself.

Bill

[imagine]

If you do decide to retire here you wont be taxed on your pension.
Here is the list of countries that have a social security agreement with the UK.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/international/social-security-agreements/list-of-countries/

thanks :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Paul77]

I owe everyone an apology for giving out duff information. I AM wrong in my interpretation as I discovered when my Disclosure was returned by the Embassy today. They sent with it, a bulletin highlighting what I should have done. This link tells you what to do. http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/about-us/what-we-do/services-we-deliver/legal-services/Legalisation/030-Links/010-How-to-apply/

Sincere apologies to anyone who have already sent postal orders to the Embassy. All is not lost as you can cash them in yourself.

Bill

Hi Bill , Excellent information,thank you,i'm still waiting on getting my police check back in the post so what you say now makes things clear for me.

[bigtilly]

Bill,
The reason you are getting confused about what people are telling you is some things can be written in law in the Philippines but not followed. Gets easier with time to understand the in's and out's.
The balikbayan route is not intended to be for people staying here on a permanent basis. The original purpose was for former citizens to return home without having to have a visa.
It is classed as temporary visitors visa and you would be required to have a return ticket prior to admission into the Philippines. It doesn't have to be dated as all they want to see is the person intends to leave the country. In theory all you need is a short trip to another asian country every year but they 'may' refuse your request one day.

The local BOI in Dipolog wont be able to process a 13a application. If you check the link below it will tell you where it can be done.
http://immigration.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=115&Itemid=61

If you apply in the Philippines it will involve 2 stages. First a years probationary period then you have to convert it to permanent. From what i have heard recently each stage would involve about 3 trips to immigration. Was at least 6 when i did mine in the 90's :icon_rolleyes:

http://immigration.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=115&Itemid=61

Good luck with which ever route you decide to take..

Hi Jake,

Thanks for the info and the links. I'll get there eventually!

Bill

[Terpe]

If you do decide to retire here you wont be taxed on your pension.
Here is the list of countries that have a social security agreement with the UK.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/international/social-security-agreements/list-of-countries/

It depends on the pension(s) you have and whether you have a BIR TIN number or not.
Very important.
But in principle yes, correct. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[hawk]

why get a 13a ? if your married it only lasts for a year and takes about 3 months to get and the money to you have to go manila for this long waiting why not get a ticket to another country with wife couple days then go back phil your both togeather so would get to stay for 1 year no cost as your married i just got back from phil 2 months there i was going for a 13a but waiting 3 months and you still have to pay visa extention which is more than a ticket to say macau for you both

[fred]

why get a 13a ? if your married it only lasts for a year and takes about 3 months to get and the money to you have to go manila for this long waiting why not get a ticket to another country with wife couple days then go back phil your both togeather so would get to stay for 1 year no cost as your married i just got back from phil 2 months there i was going for a 13a but waiting 3 months and you still have to pay visa extention which is more than a ticket to say macau for you both

:Erm:
Hawk..
You are wrong. The visa we are talking about is PERMANENT if applied for in the UK.
Its temporary for one year if applied for in the R.P ..After that year, you can apply to make it a permanent visa.

Please try to be careful of publishing facts when in fact they are utter TOSH!!:icon_lol:

Cheers,
Fred.

[imagine]

It depends on the pension(s) you have and whether you have a BIR TIN number or not.
Very important.
But in principle yes, correct. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

BIR TIN number ?:Erm: tax id no/? where is this found will it be on a tax return or any tax papers?

[fred]

BIR TIN number ?:Erm: tax id no/? where is this found will it be on a tax return or any tax papers?

A BIR tin number is a kind of Philippine tax code,I think..
Not sure what the tax rules are for dual citizens but I think they only pay tax on money earned here in the R.P..
I dont think that their UK pension is taxable here..In fact Im sure its not.:Erm:

[imagine]

A BIR tin number is a kind of Philippine tax code,I think..
Not sure what the tax rules are for dual citizens but I think they only pay tax on money earned here in the R.P..
I dont think that their UK pension is taxable here..In fact Im sure its not.:Erm:

i read that claiming uk pension while in philippines, you have the choice for it to be taxable in uk or in philippines,, in philippines pension tax i read is zero:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[hawk]

ok sorry must have missed the part permernt

[jonnijon]

Monies received from outside the Philippines is not taxed here.

[Terpe]

A BIR tin number is a kind of Philippine tax code,I think..
Not sure what the tax rules are for dual citizens but I think they only pay tax on money earned here in the R.P..
I dont think that their UK pension is taxable here..In fact Im sure its not.:Erm:

In the words of Benjamin Franklin "In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."

Make no mistakes UK pensions ARE taxable in Philippines.

Unless you make special arrangements to take advantage of existing agreements between Philippines and UK, you could expect to be taxed twice.

If you are resident in the Philippines and you let HMRC know that your pension will be taxed in your country of residence, the tax in the UK will not be applied.

To do this you need make a claim for relief so that HMRC will authorise payment of your pension without deduction of tax.

You will need to obtain a TIN (Taxpayer Identification Number) from BIR and send this to HMRC as evidence that you will be subject to tax in Philippines.

Here's the trick; currently income from pensions are taxed at a rate of 0% in Philippines.
Long may that continue !!!!

Not all pensions can be included in the agreement, so be sure to take care to allocate your UK personal allowances correctly and minimise the tax burden.

Enjoy!

[imagine]

i wouldnt think uk state pension on its own would be enough to go over the tax allowance:Erm:

[Terpe]

i wouldnt think uk state pension on its own would be enough to go over the tax allowance:Erm:

Well no the UK state pension will be far below the personal allowances.
The benefits of the agreement only come into play when the total pension income is higher than the personal allowance.
As I mentioned, not all pensions fall into that agreement. Some government and local authority pensions are excluded. In which case, use those excluded pensions up as your personal allowance. Simples.

[bigtilly]

I retire in about 4 weeks and my UK state pension + 2 occupational pensions will take me over the age related personal allowance by around £1200. I have no idea how much tax I would have to pay on that amount.

But, if I obtain a TIN from the BIR (who they?) and send that to HMRC I won't have to pay tax in the UK. Sounds OK to me!

[Terpe]

I retire in about 4 weeks and my UK state pension + 2 occupational pensions will take me over the age related personal allowance by around £1200. I have no idea how much tax I would have to pay on that amount.

But, if I obtain a TIN from the BIR (who they?) and send that to HMRC I won't have to pay tax in the UK. Sounds OK to me!

BIR= Bureau of Internal Revenue (Tax Office)

As said, depends who the pensions are with.
You'll need to prove residency also. Not tourist status.
13a

[jake]

BIR= Bureau of Internal Revenue (Tax Office)

As said, depends who the pensions are with.
You'll need to prove residency also. Not tourist status.
13a

Correct :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Pensions payed out of public funds in the UK are exempt from Philippine tax.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/dtmanual/DT15367.htm

Not sure how much they tax private pensions in the UK. If you were to be taxed here you would have to register with the BIR main office in Quezon city as they deal with foreign taxes. You never know it could be less than you pay in the UK.

[Michael Parnham]

Whilst living in the Philippines, my pension was payed normally in to my UK bank and I used my internet banking to transfer enough each month to fulfil my requirements into my Philippine bank, never had any problems at all, the charge to transfer was £5 each time. By using my Philippine bank card at the cash machines there were no charges at all at most of the banks including Robinsons. Another tip, where possible try and use cash most of the time and always ask for discounts, you'll be suprised how much you will save, never be afraid to barter because the staff in the stores think that if they give you a decent discount they think you will always come back to them!:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Terpe]

.....Pensions payed out of public funds in the UK are exempt from Philippine tax..

Yes, but also excluded from the DTA.

At the risk of going off-topic I think it might be helpful to post some concise clarification.

All Double Taxation Treaties/Reciprical Agreements are highly complex and dealing with them is a specialist area for both UK and Philippines tax authorities.
The UK has Double Taxation Treaties with more than 100 countries.The Philippines deals with Double Taxation Treaties with more than 30 countries.
Each treaty has different conditions.

But in principle and specifically for UK nationals resident in Philippines:-

If your pension is a 'public funded (government) pension' (ie: Military, Civil Service and Most Local Authority paid pensions) then it is NOT included in the Tax Treaty with Philippines and MUST be Tax Coded and Tax Deducted at source in UK. Period.

If your pension is a UK State Pension (public funded) then it is also NOT included in the Tax Treaty with Philippines and MUST be Tax Coded and Tax Deducted at source in UK. Period.

If your pension is a non-governmental pension, most often referred to as a Private Pension or Occupational Pension, then this IS INCLUDED in the Tax Treaty with Philippines and CAN be Tax Coded at source in UK as 'paid net of income tax' and be treated under the Philippine Tax regime.
Means zero tax paid in UK and subject to Philippine Tax Regime (which is currently rated 0% on private pensions)

All pension providers in UK are required to apply a tax code on any payments made.
The tax codes are issued by HMRC. The pension provider is prohibited from making any payments to you without a code.
Some codes will mean tax payable is zero.
National Insurance is not paid on pension payments.

The State Pension is an exception to this as it is paid Gross to you by DWP. DWP cannot deduct tax at source.
Your state pension payments will therefore be deducted from your personal allowances, thereby reducing the threshold for 'free-pay' on any other income (ie Occupational Pension)
Having the Private/Occupational pension tax liabilities transfered to Philippines can result in very significant benefits.

Regardless of where you live, you are liable to UK tax coding on any UK sourced income, unless with a double taxation agreement country you can transfer the tax responsibility/liability to the local Tax revenue authority.

Sorry for the off-topic posting but just want to be sure all the relevent facts are made.

[jake]

Was very informative and not off topic as somebody did ask.
Can you advice me on moving money from my Swiss accounts :icon_lol: