dual nationality

[stevewool]

if i pay for my Em to become british then how do you go about becoming a dual passport holder, any imformation will be welcome

[Terpe]

if i pay for my Em to become brittish then how do you go about becoming a dual passport holder, any imformation will be welcome

When Emma swears her British Citizenship then technically/legally she loses Philippine citizenship.
She will need to make appointment at Philippine Embassy to Re-acquire her Philippine Citizenship by Oath Taking ceremony. She will the receive a certificate of Philippine Citizenship.
Additionally her passport will need to be renewed.

That's why I always suggest to apply and receive a British Passport before re-acquisition of Philippine. Just to have a secure travel document in any event.

The cost and time taken is minimal Steve, and you can still enjoy time in London.

There are many many benefits to Dual Citizenship and I strongly suggest you make sure she follows it.
Especially as you have some plans to retire to Philippines. Without Philippine Citizenship both yours and her legal entitlements in Philippines will become limited.

There's no dual passport. Emma will hold a true and legal full British citizenship and Passport which she can use and depend on at any time.
She will also hold a true and legal Philippine citizenship and Passport which she can use and depend on at anytime

Best of both worlds to be a member of that exclusive club

[lordna]

Can a born & bred British similarly obtain Philippine citizenship to also hold dual citizenship?

[fred]

Can a born & bred British similarly obtain Philippine citizenship to also hold dual citizenship?


NO!!!!
If you ever managed to jump through the hoops needed to become a Filipino, not only would you not be able to have dual citizenship - you will also need to renounce your British citizenship in front of a judge and then swear allegiance ONLY to the Philippine flag.
Crazy but true.

[Terpe]

Can a born & bred British similarly obtain Philippine citizenship to also hold dual citizenship?

Legally no.

There is however a recognized legal process to make application for naturalization (citizenship) in the Philippines.

The major qualifications include:-
Must not be less than 21 yrs of age
Must have 10 years continuous residence (5 years continuous residence if married to Philippine citizen)
Must be of good moral character, believe in the principles underlying the Philippine Constitution, and must have conducted themselves in a proper and irreproachable manner during the entire period of residence in the Philippines in his/her relation with the constituted government as well as with the community in which he/she is living.
Ability to read and write English or Spanish AND any one of the principal Philippine languages
Must have enrolled minor children of school age, in any of the public schools or private schools recognized by the Office of Private Education of the Philippines, where the Philippine history, government and civics are taught or prescribed as part of the school curriculum, during the entire period of the residence in the Philippines required of them prior to the hearing of the petition for naturalization as Philippine citizen.

Remember, it's a Judge who will review all of your 'qualifications' that makes the final decision.
Whether you actually do meet all the requirements or not, the Judge makes the decision. You might meet all the official requirements but because the judge doesn’t think you've integrated enough into the local Philippine culture, he turns you down.
The same is true the other way; you might not speak a major Philippine dialect fluently, but you brought solid upstanding Filipino citizens as character witnesses who speak glorious words about your contributions and character and the judge subsequently allows you have citizenship.

There are some costs/fees involved. I don't know how much these would likely be at the end.
Timescales are about 3 years (initial application 1 year before petition, final decision not less than 2 years after filing petition)

Technically, it is not necessarily the case that you formally/legally give up British Citizenship.
(British nationality can only be renounced by a declaration made to the Home Secretary. A person ceases to be a British national on the date that the declaration of renunciation is registered by the Home Secretary. If a declaration is registered in the expectation of acquiring another citizenship, but one is not acquired within six months of the registration, it does not take effect and the person is considered to have remained a British national.
Renunciations made to any other persons or authorities are totally invalid.)

Prior to receiving the Philippine naturalisation certificate you must declare in open court that you renounce absolutely and forever all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty.

(Under international law, the Master Nationality Rule says that a State may not give diplomatic protection to one of its nationals in a country whose citizenship that person also holds. For example, if a person is both British national and Philippine national, he cannot be given diplomatic help by a British Consul in the Philippines.)

Furthermore, the state issuing naturalisation also has the legal power of cancellation.
Anyone obtaining naturalisation fraudulently will be subject to a fine or imprisonment or both, plus cancellation of naturalisation. (probably after the term of imprisonment so that any other diplomatic service cannot help you)

[Terpe]

Sorry Fred, my post took too long to type up with my size fingers and I duplicated your answer :icon_sorry:

[lordna]

Legally no.

There is however a recognized legal process to make application for naturalization (citizenship) in the Philippines.

The major qualifications include:-
Must not be less than 21 yrs of age
Must have 10 years continuous residence (5 years continuous residence if married to Philippine citizen)
Must be of good moral character, believe in the principles underlying the Philippine Constitution, and must have conducted themselves in a proper and irreproachable manner during the entire period of residence in the Philippines in his/her relation with the constituted government as well as with the community in which he/she is living.
Ability to read and write English or Spanish AND any one of the principal Philippine languages
Must have enrolled minor children of school age, in any of the public schools or private schools recognized by the Office of Private Education of the Philippines, where the Philippine history, government and civics are taught or prescribed as part of the school curriculum, during the entire period of the residence in the Philippines required of them prior to the hearing of the petition for naturalization as Philippine citizen.

Remember, it's a Judge who will review all of your 'qualifications' that makes the final decision.
Whether you actually do meet all the requirements or not, the Judge makes the decision. You might meet all the official requirements but because the judge doesn’t think you've integrated enough into the local Philippine culture, he turns you down.
The same is true the other way; you might not speak a major Philippine dialect fluently, but you brought solid upstanding Filipino citizens as character witnesses who speak glorious words about your contributions and character and the judge subsequently allows you have citizenship.

There are some costs/fees involved. I don't know how much these would likely be at the end.
Timescales are about 3 years (initial application 1 year before petition, final decision not less than 2 years after filing petition)

Technically, it is not necessarily the case that you formally/legally give up British Citizenship.
(British nationality can only be renounced by a declaration made to the Home Secretary. A person ceases to be a British national on the date that the declaration of renunciation is registered by the Home Secretary. If a declaration is registered in the expectation of acquiring another citizenship, but one is not acquired within six months of the registration, it does not take effect and the person is considered to have remained a British national.
Renunciations made to any other persons or authorities are totally invalid.)

Prior to receiving the Philippine naturalisation certificate you must declare in open court that you renounce absolutely and forever all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty.

(Under international law, the Master Nationality Rule says that a State may not give diplomatic protection to one of its nationals in a country whose citizenship that person also holds. For example, if a person is both British national and Philippine national, he cannot be given diplomatic help by a British Consul in the Philippines.)

Furthermore, the state issuing naturalisation also has the legal power of cancellation.
Anyone obtaining naturalisation fraudulently will be subject to a fine or imprisonment or both, plus cancellation of naturalisation. (probably after the term of imprisonment so that any other diplomatic service cannot help you)

Brilliant !...that just about covers it ! thanks for yet another informative post

[fred]

Sorry Fred, my post took too long to type up with my size fingers and I duplicated your answer :icon_sorry:

No worries..Your post was far more comprehensive anyway..
Cheers,
Fred.

[imagine]

im guessing that if a person renounces British citizenship they would lose the right to their british state pension:Erm:

[Michael Parnham]

Don't know, but I would imagine so!:Erm:

[fred]

im guessing that if a person renounces British citizenship they would lose the right to their british state pension:Erm:

No I doubt it.. It takes a lot more steps to lose British citizenship than to just swear you do to a Filipino judge!!

[Arthur Little]

Without Philippine Citizenship both yours and her legal entitlements in Philippines will become limited.

:Help1: ... does that mean, when she reaches age 60, Myrna could stand to lose any [or all] pension entitlements - in spite of contributing to the appropriate superannuation fund throughout more than two decades of teaching service in the Phils - UNLESS
she goes ahead with reinstating her Filipino Citizenship?

[stevewool]

:Help1: ... does that mean when she reaches age 60, Myrna could stand to lose any [or all] pension entitlements - in spite of contributing to the appropriate superannuation fund throughout more than two decades of teaching service in the Phils - UNLESS she goes ahead with reinstating her Filipino Citizenship?

good question there Arthur

[imagine]

No I doubt it.. It takes a lot more steps to lose British citizenship than to just swear you do to a Filipino judge!!

im thinking its a little more than swearing in front of a philippine judge, surely it involves revoking uk citizen ship legally in uk with uk authorities, before its accepted

[imagine]

:Help1: ... does that mean when she reaches age 60, Myrna could lose her superannuation entitlements - despite contributing to the appropriate fund throughout more than two decades of teaching service in the Phils - UNLESS she reinstates Filipino Citizenship?

to be on the safe side it might be a good idea to sort it before its too late

[Arthur Little]

to be on the safe side it might be a good idea to sort it before its too late

:yeahthat: would be best, Stewart ... :iagree:

[Michael Parnham]

Yes chaps, look into it very carefully, because my ex isn't aware of all the rules etc. She's bought loads of land in Dauin over the years and she's been a British citizen for more than twenty years, so if she returns to Philippines to live when she retires without her Philippine citizenship, I believe she will have a problem with her land and property rights. :Erm:

[Terpe]

:Help1: ... does that mean, when she reaches age 60, Myrna could stand to lose any [or all] pension entitlements - in spite of contributing to the appropriate superannuation fund throughout more than two decades of teaching service in the Phils - UNLESS
she goes ahead with reinstating her Filipino Citizenship?

Arthur, personally I have no idea about that.
I think the best strategy is to have Myrna re-acquire her Philippine Citizenship.
It's very straightforward. The ceremony is about 15-20 mins only (unless it's changed) and the cost is really quite small.

You could always check out with a lawyer, but to be honest, I think there are much less twists and turns when being a Philippine Citizen.

Just my opinion

[fred]

:Help1: ... does that mean, when she reaches age 60, Myrna could stand to lose any [or all] pension entitlements - in spite of contributing to the appropriate superannuation fund throughout more than two decades of teaching service in the Phils - UNLESS
she goes ahead with reinstating her Filipino Citizenship?

Arthur.. The only limits that I can think of for former Filipino`s is land ownership issues.. They can still own land here but only a Maximum of 5000 sq. meters for urban land a Maximum of three (3) hectares for rural land.

Also although they do not need a visa to visit the R.P they are given"Balikbayan" status which only allows them to stay for up to one year..

Of course,Once her Filipino citizenship has been reinstated and she has dual status these limits no longer apply.

None of this has ANY effect on her UK pension!! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[jake]

Yes chaps, look into it very carefully, because my ex isn't aware of all the rules etc: She's bought loads of land in Dauin over the years and she's been a British citizen for more than twenty years, so if she returns to Philippines to live when she retires without her Philippine citizenship, I believe she will have a problem with her land and property rights.:Erm:

Michael,
Its very easy for her to regain Philippine citizenship. If she bought the land before she became a British citizen there are no limits to how much you can own.
If she purchased the land after she became a British citizen there are limits which Fred covered.
There are many former Filipino's who have exceeded the limit and have never had a problem. If it was challenged in court all she would have to do is go to immigration and swear an oath allegiance and she would go back to being a Philippine Citizen. Problem solved :smile:

[Terpe]

........None of this has ANY effect on her UK pension!!:xxgrinning--00xx3:

It's not UK pension. It's Philippine sourced.

[jake]

It's not UK pension. It's Philippine sourced.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/viewpoints/viewpoints/view/20100818-287467/Migrant-retirees-have-problems-with-SSS-and-GSIS-pensions

[jake]

It's not UK pension. It's Philippine sourced.

My wife's oldest brother lives in Canada and receives his Philippine pension there. Will find out more when she next speaks to him.

http://opinion.inquirer.net/12605/how-a-retiree-can-get-pension-while-abroad

[jake]

It's not UK pension. It's Philippine sourced.

Good news.
According to the government website your wife can still apply for and receive her pension without going back to the Philippines.
My wife's brother did it whilst he was here in the Philippines on vacation and he is a Canadian Citizen.

http://www.gsis.gov.ph/default.php?id=10

[Terpe]

Good news.
According to the government website your wife can still apply for and receive her pension without going back to the Philippines.
My wife's brother did it whilst he was here in the Philippines on vacation and he is a Canadian Citizen.

http://www.gsis.gov.ph/default.php?id=10

Thanks Jake for that good information.

BTW, it's not my wife, it's the wife of Arthur who is a British Citizen, but no longer a Philippine Citizen.

I followed the link but couldn't find anything that states eligibility still applies if you are no longer a Philippine Citizen. Do you have any idea on that point?

[jake]

Thanks Jake for that good information.

BTW, it's not my wife, it's the wife of Arthur who is a British Citizen, but no longer a Philippine Citizen.

I followed the link but couldn't find anything that states eligibility still applies if you are no longer a Philippine Citizen. Do you have any idea on that point?

Oops i thought it was you :doh
As far as i know you can still claim your pension even though you are no longer a Philippine Citizen.
I'm only basing this on my wife's oldest brother who is a Canadian citizen and no longer a Philippine Citizen. He is 65 and managed to have his pension payed directly into his account.
If he managed to do this i cant see why Arthur's wife wont be able too.
As with a lot of things here it can vary from case to case.

[fred]

The point I tried to make before was that as far as I can tell, there really is no down side for former Filipino`s becoming a dual citizen...(only positives)
Its cheap and easy to obtain too.
If any member believes that there is a downside or any negatives etc etc, then please advise with links that may educate us further.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

Oops i thought it was you :doh
As far as i know you can still claim your pension even though you are no longer a Philippine Citizen.
I'm only basing this on my wife's oldest brother who is a Canadian citizen and no longer a Philippine Citizen. He is 65 and managed to have his pension payed directly into his account.
If he managed to do this i cant see why Arthur's wife wont be able too.
As with a lot of things here it can vary from case to case.

:xxgrinning--00xx3: Jake ... thanks for that reassurance. :smile: And Peter, thank you also, for following up my inquiry with Jake. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

The point I tried to make before was that as far as I can tell, there really is no down side for former Filipino`s becoming a dual citizen...(only positives)
Its cheap and easy to obtain too.
If any member believes that there is a downside or any negatives etc etc, then please advise with links that may educate us further.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Yes, Fred ... Peter is of the same mind as regards the unquestionable benefits of dual citizenship. :biggrin: So thanks to you, too. :xxgrinning--00xx3: