Poignant Message From The Vatican

[Arthur Little]

Newly elected Pope Francis I, has apparently issued a papal edict to his fellow countryfolk:

:Hellooo: ... "don't cry for ME, Argen~tina!" :veryhappy:

:BlacklistThatsbull:

[grahamw48]

Funny how in most other walks of life you'd be considered too old and (by implication) incompetent to even be considered 'employable' when 11 years his junior. :NoNo:

[Arthur Little]

Francis I

:cwm24: ... oo-er ... clearly I was mistaken in referring to the recently-elected pontiff as Francis *I.

Evidently, since NO Pope in past history has assumed the name Francis (after St Francis of Assissi) the present incumbent of the Papacy can only be [later] styled *THUS in the event of a future successor adopting the same [Christian] name - with the title of Francis II -

:anerikke: - if you see what I mean. :icon_rolleyes:

[grahamw48]

I still can't believe I'm witnessing all this primitive mumbo jumbo when there's a man-made machine currently sampling the water on Mars. :NoNo:

[Arthur Little]

I still can't believe I'm witnessing all this primitive mumbo jumbo when there's a man-made machine currently sampling the water on Mars. :NoNo:

Let's come down to Earth [literally] though, Graham. OK ... what's happening on the "Red" Planet IS, indeed, *rivetting (again, in the truest sense of the *word!) But we mere mortals do, after all, live on our own planet ... and, judging by the sheer masses [s'cuse pun] seen "braving the elements" :raining: outside St Peter's Basilica the other evening, the election of the first non-European Roman Catholic Primate in nearly 11/2 millennia of recorded time, surely deserves the respect and jubilation it undoubtely attracted from Catholic communities worldwide - aside from the countless millions representing the very nation to which most of OUR British members' **loved ones originate - namely, the Philippines!

Now, I'm NOT a Catholic. :NoNo: Nevertheless, I feel last Wednesday's Papal Election was undoubtedly a HUGELY significant event in the lives of **those people and ALL who share their faith.

So :nono-1-1: ... I am one hundred percent certain they're highly UNLIKELY to regard the occasion as consisting of mere "mumbo. jumbo".

[grahamw48]

Yes Arthur, I fully appreciate that one needs some diplomacy on the site, considering the large number of Catholic members....which is why I do try to keep my personal views as 'mild' as I feel able to.

However, this is also (supposedly) a secular nation and one where free speech is (supposedly) a right.

It seems that this new 'conduit of god' is also a man who frowns upon contraception. Now that I find irresponsible and selfish in the extreme, and a policy that greatly affects the good people of the Philippines and other poorer Catholic countries where massive overpopulation is clearly THE main problem.

I'm not the sort of person who can just sit on his hands, saying nothing, when people wielding such power and influence (based on 2,000 year-old hand-me-down tales) seem content with this situation.:NoNo:

[Arthur Little]

It seems that this new 'conduit of god' is also a man who frowns upon contraception. Now that I find irresponsible and selfish in the extreme, and a policy that greatly affects the good people of the Philippines and other poorer Catholic countries where massive overpopulation is clearly THE main problem.

:yeahthat:'s MOST definitely a VERY :gp: you've put forward there, Graham ... and it's a view with which :iagree: 100%. Sadly, :bigcry: had the youngest candidate, the 58-yo Filipino Cardinal (3rd in the "pecking order", by all accounts) been elected instead, it wouldn't likely have made any difference to the "thorny" debate about contraception. Worsened it, even ... as such an outcome could've jeopardised the commendable progress to date, of the vital RH Bill.

[Terpe]

Less than a few days since Pope Francis elected and already the value judgements, reasons for failure and why another wrong choice been made abound.

We'll all probably make some intial assessment and initial decisions based on value judgements. Me included. Seems to be human nature in many ways.

My very first impression was formed on seeing his face. (value judgement number one.)
I watched how his facial expression changed when he spoke his first few words as Pope Francis, his body language and his head moved, and also the tone, quality and presentation of what he said.

Since then, the only information the majority of us can discover about this man is what the media and the pundits tell us.

Whatever our view on the Catholic Church may be, surely we can feel something for this new Pope who will be under huge pressure to hit the ground running.
Much more than any other before him.
Immediately, within a couple weeks, he has to face Holy Week and Easter, the most important time for the Catholic calendar.
The world will watch, listen and scrutinise then publish.

Let's not make any mistake, the Catholic Church faces massive challenges.
There's the sex abuse scandals, financial and power struggle scandals within the Curia (now commonly known as 'Vatileaks'),the dwindling membership and the modernisation of the Catholic Church by pulling today's views into the church instead of pushing the doctrine view of the church into society.
This will need definitive positioning statements on the role of women in the church, gay marriage, birth control, celebacy, allowing marriage of priest, shortage of priests and forging positive links with other faiths.

What a huge job!!

He has been selected and elected from within a group who, by the very nature of their eligibility will be seen as 'conservative supporters' of the church.

But look, there are already some early good signals. He seems to be a high level pragmatist rather than doctrinaire.
He seems, and it's also reported, to be a human being of great compassion, especially for the poor. Seems also to have been known to have great humility and simplicity.
The story goes that as archbishop in Argentina he gave up the palace he could have lived in and took up an apartment, also that he gave up his chauffeur driven limousine and took to going to work on the bus.

Insider gossip suggests that the more prominent and conservative candidates most favoured by the Curia were successfully blocked at a very early stage by those who support a more liberal view.

Good signs (perhaps) in many ways.

On the other hand, we do have to wonder how it was that the conclave thought a man of 76 will be able, strong enough and liberal thinking enough to address all the issues within an acceptable time and in the way needed.

Seems sensible and likely that a massive cull will be needed to rid the Curia, of those who have questionable records. If he fails in this action, I fear the church will never recover globally.

His previous conservatism is well known and reported on, especially his opposition to abortion and gay marriage.
But interestingly he has chosen to be known as Pope Francis. This name has never been used before.
Pope Francis the first Pope elected form outside of Europe for over 1000 years

If anyone considers symbolism to be an indicator, then.............

I for one wish him luck, strength and wise counsel and some pretty quick actions.
I want to give him a chance and make some judgements based on his performance. not what's been reported in the media on his past 76 years life history.

I'm looking forward to Easter. To his performance to his presentation and to his words.

Give the guy a chance at least.

Well that's my 2 centavos worth anyway.

[grahamw48]

Thanks for a thoughtful and well-reasoned post Peter.

Certainly nothing there that I would disagree with.

Let's see how things develop. :xxgrinning--00xx3: