Could my Fiancee and I live in the EU?

[yellowcloud]

Hello all,

I was hoping someone could help. If my FIancee and I lose our appeal, could we live in another EU country without any problems ie interrogation of our relationship and having to provide photos, card etc etc in order to get a residency card if we were to say live in Germany or Spain etc? I have read that to get a residency card in another EU country if my Fiancee and I were married all we would need would be a Marriage certificate and health insurance and theres no scrutiny of your relationship.

Only other thing was if Germany or whatever country it was were able to see we were refused a Fiancee visa because the ECO said we weren't genuine.

Hope someone can help!

[Terpe]

Hello all,

I was hoping someone could help. If my FIancee and I lose our appeal, could we live in another EU country without any problems ie interrogation of our relationship and having to provide photos, card etc etc in order to get a residency card if we were to say live in Germany or Spain etc? I have read that to get a residency card in another EU country if my Fiancee and I were married all we would need would be a Marriage certificate and health insurance and theres no scrutiny of your relationship.

Only other thing was if Germany or whatever country it was were able to see we were refused a Fiancee visa because the ECO said we weren't genuine.

Hope someone can help!

If you're considering the EEA route you'll need to marry first.
Family members are defined as spouse, civil partner, children of the EEA national or their spouse/civil partner under 21, children of the EEA national or their spouse/civil partner over 21 who are dependent and parents of the EEA national or their spouse/civil partner if they are dependent.

Fiancee is not Family member.

[yellowcloud]

If you're considering the EEA route you'll need to marry first.
Family members are defined as spouse, civil partner, children of the EEA national or their spouse/civil partner under 21, children of the EEA national or their spouse/civil partner over 21 who are dependent and parents of the EEA national or their spouse/civil partner if they are dependent.

Fiancee is not Family member.

Thanks sorry I meant to say we would be married. If we were married is there a time limit on how long we would have to be married for? Or have been in a relationship for in order to get a residence card in another EU country? For an unmarried partner its 2 years I think?

I was reading about someone who had a Filipino Wife and they moved to Germany and to get a residence card all he did was show his marriage certificate, passport and one or two other documents and that was it. Is that true? and you don't have to prove your marriage to them with photos, plane tickets etc, like the UKBA ask for?

For instance I also wonder if a couple have been refused a Settlement visa by UKBA as they didnt think you were genuine and they move to Germany or another EU country do you think the resident card people will share information with the UKBA and look up and see if you were refused by UKBA and then refuse you again? Not sure if they would share info or not?

Any help appreciated!!

[joebloggs]

I think the main reason a Family permit can be refused by a EU member state is if they believe the marriage is not genuine.

[yellowcloud]

I think the main reason a Family permit can be refused by a EU member state is if they believe the marriage is not genuine.

Seems strange, when all they have is a marriage certificate to judge on.

[joebloggs]

Seems strange, when all they have is a marriage certificate to judge on.

well a family permit is virtually a legal right to a EU citizens spouse so i wouldnt worry to much about it, but

EUN2.10 What if I suspect a marriage / civil partnership of convenience?

The definition of 'spouse' and 'civil partner' in the EEA Regulations does not include someone who has entered into a marriage / civil partnership of convenience.

When a marriage / civil partnership of convenience is suspected, the burden of proof is high and rests with the ECO. However, in these cases the ECO is entitled to interview the applicant. Factors to consider include:

an adverse immigration history;
doubts about the validity of documentation;
application follows soon after the marriage / civil partnership;
no previous evidence of the relationship.

The ECO should not consider the following cases as marriages / civil partnerships of convenience where:

there is a child of the relationship;
there is evidence to suggest cohabitation.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/guidance/ecg/eun/eun2/#header10

[yellowcloud]

well a family permit is virtually a legal right to a EU citizens spouse so i wouldnt worry to much about it, but

EUN2.10 What if I suspect a marriage / civil partnership of convenience?

The definition of 'spouse' and 'civil partner' in the EEA Regulations does not include someone who has entered into a marriage / civil partnership of convenience.

When a marriage / civil partnership of convenience is suspected, the burden of proof is high and rests with the ECO. However, in these cases the ECO is entitled to interview the applicant. Factors to consider include:

an adverse immigration history;
doubts about the validity of documentation;
application follows soon after the marriage / civil partnership;
no previous evidence of the relationship.

The ECO should not consider the following cases as marriages / civil partnerships of convenience where:

there is a child of the relationship;
there is evidence to suggest cohabitation.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/guidance/ecg/eun/eun2/#header10

Yes theres a very big difference between a officer worker who processes a residence card and a ECO whos using the national immigration rules. Not sure what the name is for the people who process residence card in other countries. But it seems its ECOs who issue resident cards and they also issue (or not) Spouse Visas too etc, but they have different requirements to have to meet for a residence card/family permit and a spouse visa.

[joebloggs]

it's the same people, of course they have different procedures for the family permit and British immigration visa's. but what I've pasted is from the guidance for ECO's from UKBA, but each different EU members governments and ECO's may have a different interpretation of EU family permit rules and regulations.

[sars_notd_virus]

I was reading about someone who had a Filipino Wife and they moved to Germany and to get a residence card all he did was show his marriage certificate, passport and one or two other documents and that was it. Is that true? ?



I dont think so, Germany is very rigid with their immigration and residency regulations.

http://www.expatica.com/de/essentials_moving_to/essentials/How-to-move-to-Germany-legally_-visas-and-citizenship.html

Like in many other European countries, citizens from the EEA (EU plus Iceland, Norway and Lichtenstein) and Switzerland are free to live and work in Germany. The only requirement is to register with the appropriate office of the town hall in their local area (usually called Einwohnermedeamt or Bürgeramt). An exception to this applies to Romanian and Bulgarian nationals who require a residence/work permit to work in Germany.

Once a citizen from these countries has lived in Germany lawfully for five years without interruption they will gain the right of permanent residence. This five-year period also applies to the family members and spouses of EU citizens.

[Terpe]

Yellowcloud,
As I recall your Fiancee's visa application was refused due to not satisfying the ECO on the genuine and subsisting realtionship. (ie intention of marriage of convenience)

Do you have experienced representation for the appeal?
When is the hearing for the appeal?

My reason for asking is because I believe you'll need to present a strong case on this.
I do sincerely hope that you'll overcome the challenges, but should you get a negative outcome it may very well impact any opportunity to fully utilse the EEA route to UK via Family Permit.
Just be aware of that and build up as much evidence as you can that the relationship is long standing, genuine and subsisting. Even outside of any appeal decision you could still succeed via EEA route provided you could present convincing evidence on your relationship and marriage.
In your specific case my advice would be to get married quite some time before your wife applies to join you in EU, (at least 3 months) then to remain within your chosen EU state for at least 9 months together making your marriage 12 months duration.
Just a suggestion. Hope it helps