Views on the Badger Culling Pilot

[lordna]

I would be interested to see peoples views on the Badger Culling pilot and this sign.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/946944_462632750489693_266376642_n.jpg

[joebloggs]

nearly 250.000 have signed a petition against the cull.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38257

[les_taxi]

nearly 250.000 have signed a petition against the cull.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38257

Including me :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lordna]

Including me :xxgrinning--00xx3:

.... and me!

[raynaputi]

And me.. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

the gov want a cull because its the easily solution, yet they can waste money on :censored: research projects :mad:

[lordna]

I would be interested to see peoples views on the Badger Culling pilot and this sign.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/946944_462632750489693_266376642_n.jpg

Hope badgers can read!

[Jamesey]

There's a lot of debate about it down here in Somerset. We're in one of the pilot areas.

For me, it all comes down to the science and whether a badger cull would actually prevent TB in cattle. Unfortunately, there's so much rhetoric coming from both sides that the facts are difficult to find!

Hopefully the trials will provide some decent data to find out if there is a link between badgers and bovine TB.

[grahamw48]

7 + billion Humans are the problem, not Badgers.

[keith britten]

There is no scientific proof that badgers infect cattle, more likely to be the other way round. If farmers practiced better husbandry on their stock instead of sitting around on their fat arses waiting for the next subsidy cheque to come in the post. The farmers have had their way in the uk for far to long, they are not happy unless they are killing some wild animal or the other, foxes,rabbits,badgers,it does'nt matter to them. The Government will not listen to any well informed advice from scientices they have set their minds on having this cull, maybe because a lot of the fat tories are farmers. Gradually we will see all the uk's wildlife vanish because of these single minded blood lusting farmers. I signed the petition long ago but will te Gov listen to the people, NO.

[imagine]

signed sealed and delivered,

your right graham,
iv seen some real crap fed to beef stock, heaps of rotton potatoes and i mean rotten, black blue and squashy,i was disgusted, they ate because they were getting nothing else

and besides anything else , they were here on the land before us, they have every right to live and survive

[grahamw48]

Well thankyou Stewart. :smile:

[lordna]

There's a lot of debate about it down here in Somerset. We're in one of the pilot areas.

For me, it all comes down to the science and whether a badger cull would actually prevent TB in cattle. Unfortunately, there's so much rhetoric coming from both sides that the facts are difficult to find!

Hopefully the trials will provide some decent data to find out if there is a link between badgers and bovine TB.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/damian-carrington-blog/2013/jun/05/farming-badgers-cattle-tb-cull-vaccination

[Steve.r]

I think in Somerset more Badgers commit suicide on the roads than actually get culled. They are all over the place.

A few of you might know that my hobby is shooting, but I love to see badgers and foxes in their natural surroundings. Rabbits of course are my main quarry as 'yes' there are millions of the little furry buggers and farmers are only too happy to let you attempt to whittle their numbers down a bit.
I am pro hunting but not pro culling.

[grahamw48]

Plus, Rabbits are an 'introduced' species anyway. :smile:

[Terpe]

I've not seen strong enough evidence so far to support a Badger cull.

As far as I know the TB vaccination programme in Wales is an interesting alternative well worth following before jumping into a Badger cull.

This is Bovine TB we're talking about. Don't infected cattle pass it on?
In my mind there's really no stronger connection with Badgers than with other wildlife (Deer?)

How do Badgers get infected with Bovine TB ?

Sorry, almost went into a rant then.

[grahamw48]

They could start by simply building badger-proof fences around their cattle pastures and barns. Ah, but that would cost money.

If Longleat can manage to keep its animals IN. :icon_rolleyes:

[raynaputi]

I've not seen strong enough evidence so far to support a Badger cull.

As far as I know the TB vaccination programme in Wales is an interesting alternative well worth following before jumping into a Badger cull.

This is Bovine TB we're talking about. Don't infected cattle pass it on?
In my mind there's really no stronger connection with Badgers than with other wildlife (Deer?)

How do Badgers get infected with Bovine TB ?

Sorry, almost went into a rant then.

This is what Keith has been telling me since this issue of culling badgers started..it's the cattle that passes them to the badgers..and they want to cull the badgers because of it..DUH!!!...:cwm25:

[grahamw48]

Well my mother contracted TB from cow's milk in Malaya, and I'm not sure how many Badgers there are there. :Erm:

[Doc Alan]

Thankfully humans with TB are not culled :doh. Although it affects millions worldwide, several thousand ( mostly immigrants ) in the UK, and is relatively common in the Philippines - targeted vaccination, screening, diagnosis and treatment with the right drugs do reduce the number of deaths from the infection.


There are around 120 species of the bug causing TB, Mycobacterium. Almost all human TB is caused by M tuberculosis. “ Bovine “ TB ( bTB ) is caused by M bovis, and may affect cattle, badgers, deer and other animals. It’s one of the “ zoonotic “ diseases – meaning it can be spread from animals to humans, but this is very unlikely. Probably less than 1% in humans are caused by bTB ( drinking unpasteurised milk, breathing air close to an infected animal, or handling infected meat ).


bTB can be spread between cattle, cattle to badgers, badgers to cattle, and between badgers. Spread is by airborne droplets, urine and faeces. Cattle infected with TB have to be slaughtered – around 30,000(+) last year – because the many months of antibiotic treatment needed ( as in humans ) could not be implemented.


Vaccination of humans by BCG is only 80% effective. It’s not effective in cattle or badgers already having TB. Vaccination of cattle is currently prohibited by EU legislation – it interferes with the main diagnostic test for TB ( tuberculin test; there are alternative, accurate, blood-based tests ). Badger vaccination is under way in Wales. An oral, baited vaccine for badgers would be cheaper and more practical but is not - yet - available.



There are many problems with the pilot badger culls – “ perturbation “ ( infected surviving badgers moving elsewhere ) ; possible reduction of TB in local cattle by less than 1/5 ; humane issues, and ( to some ) part of a “ class war “ which includes badger-culling with fox hunting. None of these bode well for the trial badger culls to be continued, and even less for them to be extended :NoNo:.



Vaccination is the way forward, in my opinion. It would reduce – not eliminate - bTB in cattle, badgers, deer and other susceptible animals. Research into, and implementation of, a vaccine programme, including better vaccines, would be relatively cheap. The huge cost to the wider economy of bTB in cattle is one thing. For hard-working farmers the cost is not only financial ; losing cattle through a largely vaccine-preventable illness on top of hostility from some of the public, is stressful.

[grahamw48]

I agree Alan....vaccination is the way.

Isn't that what they're already doing in other European countries ? :Erm:

[Steve.r]

Thanks Alan.

Something I will throw into the mix here is from my experience of living in the countryside and spending many many hours laying in a field and watching nature.

Crows!!

Crows are the dirtiest creatures I know. They are ridden with everything you can imagine. Fleas, mites, ticks... they literally crawl with all nature of parasite.
You see a dead creature at the side of the road... what flies away when you get close..? a skanky crow. Crows and farm animals share a close relationship, they share the land, feed in the same places, eat in the same places but crows survive on anything from anywhere, they are disgusting really. Gun dogs will not pick them up they are so nasty. I often wonder if they contribute to the spread, I can't see why not.
Maybe they don't :anerikke: maybe there is no proven link :anerikke: but I would rather shoot them than badgers.

[Doc Alan]

In answer to Graham's question, unlike humans, testing of cattle for TB doesn’t involve clinical history, examination and chest X ray. UK policy is driven by the EU which requires a skin test ( tuberculin ; “ test and cull “ if positive ) and vaccination is not allowed under EU law for various reasons. This could change when the “ DIVA “ blood test ( Differentiating Infected from Vaccinated Animals ) is more widely available. As with humans a more effective vaccine is desirable. There are other issues, including confirmation that widespread cattle vaccination would not affect human health.

( http://www.bovinetb.info/vaccination.php )

[grahamw48]

Thanks Alan. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Doc Alan]

In answer to Steve's question, TB does occur in domestic, captive and free-ranging / wild birds, including crows. Avian TB ( aTB ) is caused by M avium. aTB is spread by direct contact, contaminated feed, water, and environment. Pigs, rabbits and mink are said to be most susceptible; cattle and other animals are also susceptible. aTB can be hard to detect while the birds are alive ( carcass examination is the only reliable way to monitor and try to control outbreaks ). Unfortunately treatment is not effective.


My expertise is limited to human health considerations. aTB can infect humans, but usually only with already existing lung disease or impaired immunity ( HIV/AIDS or steroid treatment ). We call this “ atypical TB “ – it is difficult to diagnose and treatment may therefore be delayed.

( http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/publications/field_manual/chapter_8.pdf )

[Steve.r]

Thanks for the reply Alan. :xxgrinning--00xx3: