has anyone used the Surinder Singh route??

[benjy]

As the title says, has anyone used this route here, being able to get their spouse into the UK here.

[Terpe]

What's your plan benjy ?

Which EU country are you considering moving to ?
Do you have an employment opportunity ?

Currently, it's not difficult, but you need a strategy.

[benjy]

well my fiance visa plans look like they have down the drain,... due to the financial requirements im self employed my "income" was £21,684 last financial year i thought all is well and good but the more i read into it when your self employed your income is the profit from your business, and that was about £12,000 .... but how is that fair? i'm a sole trader not a business that turns over £100,000's a year... the rules are ridiculous! so my plan was to go to southern ireland or possibly even spain to work for few months show i have earnt and gained employment, then apply for the EEA family permit... I'd have to get married first but thats what im thinking next if my immigration barristers says i dont have a chance with the fiancee visa.:mad::Help1::bigcry::Cuckoo::furious3::Brick::thumbsdown::NoNo::Rasp:

[sheriel]

Go for it young man,about ten years ago myself and a work collegue,soon found 12 months work in Holland and Belgium,work was provided by an Agency in the beginning,Sun Newspapers advert,then we found our own easily,well paid also,you could succeed with a plan,good luck, :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Terpe]

ECJ case of Surinder Singh.
This case essentially establishes a principle that nationals of an EU Member State who are exercising an economic Treaty right (that is, as a worker or self-employed person) in another Member State will, on return to their home state, be entitled to bring their non-EEA family members to join them under EC law.

A British national and the non-EEA national family members can only benefit from the EU free movement rights if they meet the criteria established in the Surinder Singh case.
For example, a British national exercises an economic Treaty Right in France and is living with his non-EEA national wife. When the British national returns to the UK, his non-EEA national wife can apply for a UKBA EEA family permit to join him under EU regulations.

The Surinder Singh judgement is actually incorporated into the EU Regulations under Regulation 9.
Family members of British nationals who meet the requirements of Regulation 9 are treated as family members of EEA nationals for the purposes of the EEA Regulations.

Regulation 9 of the EEA Regulations sets out the circumstances in which a British national can be treated as an EEA national for the purposes of theRegulations as follows:-

[I](a) the United Kingdom national is residing in an EEA State as a worker or self-employed person or was so residing before returning to the United Kingdom

and

(b) if the family member of the United Kingdom national is his spouse or civil partner, the parties are living together in the EEA State or had entered into the marriage or civil partnership and were living together in that State before the United Kingdom national returned to the United Kingdom.

Where these conditions are met, the family member(s) of the relevant UK national will be treated as the family member of “a person holding a valid passport issued by an EEA state” for the purposes of the Regulations, and thus enjoy the rights of family members of EEA nationals as set out in the Regulations.[I]

The Regulations don't stipulate which specific employment is acceptable neither do they say do they indicate any period of time which must be spent as a qualified person in another EEA state in order to engage Regulation 9.nGenerally though it's accepted that 6 months is a reasonable time and it seems that UKBA accept this.

As it stand right now, under EU law it really doesn't matter if the only reason to follow this route is to exercise an economic Treaty right to enable return to the UK with family members.

UKBA can get very 'crusty' about applications from family members if the British national was not properly and legally employed or self-employed in the other EEA state.

It is generally not acceptable to have employment that could be considered marginal or transient.(say 8-10 hours per week with income below the social security level.)

[tiger31]

ok so what if your just living say in holland for a year with my g f can she then come to uk

[joebloggs]

you need to be working

[Terpe]

you need to be working

or self-employed.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Terpe]

ok so what if your just living say in holland for a year with my g f can she then come to uk

Even 6 months :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[benjy]

Ridiculous how an EU person has more right to immigration here than a british citizen..... good thing there is a loop hole, for those stuck in a bad position!

[Terpe]

Ridiculous how an EU person ha more right to immigration here than a british citizen..... good thing there is a loop hole, for those stuck in a bad position!

Being pedantic benjy, it's not really a loophole it's EU law.

There used to be a lot of true loopholes within the regulations which the government has closed. Sadly.

But you're right, it's a truly ridiculous and completely unfair situation.

UKBA are even making a charge for EEA visas since April 2013 when they always used to be free.

[fred]

Ridiculous how an EU person has more right to immigration here than a british citizen..... good thing there is a loop hole, for those stuck in a bad position!

Not really sure what you mean about your S/E earnings declared and net earnings reduced because of profits?
Cant a good accountant find a way to work around this?
Im pretty sure mine could have done..
That said.. I used to work directly for my customers and paid in cash.. That way I could declare as much or as little as I wanted too..
Cant you add cash paid jobs to your accounts to up your income?

[Arthur Little]

Ridiculous how an EU person has more right to immigration here than a british citizen.....

... ABSOLUTELY, :iagree:!

.............................. :yeahthat:'s long been a 'thorn in the flesh' :cwm23: for *British nationals wishing to bring their non-European partners to *THEIR home country.

[Arthur Little]

UKBA are even making a charge for EEA visas since April 2013 when they always used to be free.

Can't say I'm sorry to read about that! :nono-1-1: ... superficially, at least, ANY step designed to "even the score" would appear to be a step in the RIGHT direction ... :anerikke: ... i.e., depending, of course, on the charge(s) being levied.

[bigmac]

or self-employed.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

or--in receipt of the UK retirement pension--?

[Terpe]

or--in receipt of the UK retirement pension--?

No.

[blackcat22]

Being pedantic benjy, it's not really a loophole it's EU law.

There used to be a lot of true loopholes within the regulations which the government has closed. Sadly.

But you're right, it's a truly ridiculous and completely unfair situation.

UKBA are even making a charge for EEA visas since April 2013 when they always used to be free.


Terpe,
From what I read, once you have exercised your treaty rights in EU state, you don't really need to apply EEA family permit in advance, you can just book a flight/ferry or whatever and head to UK with your wife from the EU country where you've been excercising your treaty rights armed only with your passports, marriage certificate and payslips + prove of adress in EU state and also make it known to immigration officer at UK immigration control by quoting the EU directive of free movement you're exercising. They have no choice but to let you and your wife thru or else they face the wrath of EU in Brussels with fines etc.. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I have heard cases where the British government have been given a hefty fine by the EU for refusing to let couples who have exercised their treaty rights thru at UK immigration control.

[tiger31]

do you have to be married to apply the surrinder route as i,ve been living with my g f in the philippines 2 and a half years

[Terpe]

Terpe,
From what I read, once you have exercised your treaty rights in EU state, you don't really need to apply EEA family permit in advance, you can just book a flight/ferry or whatever and head to UK with your wife from the EU country where you've been excercising your treaty rights armed only with your passports, marriage certificate and payslips + prove of adress in EU state and also make it known to immigration officer at UK immigration control by quoting the EU directive of free movement you're exercising. They have no choice but to let you and your wife thru or else they face the wrath of EU in Brussels with fines etc.. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Yes. That is technically correct given that all appropriate supporting documents are carried and available.
Under the present regulations it is not compulsory for family members of EEA nationals to obtain a UK EEA Family Permit before travelling to the UK.

The only reason I suggest folks consider Family Permit is solely to minimise risks.
I know plenty of folks who have previously by-passed the Family Permit application but who also had ALL the required documentations.

I won't go into all the legal technical issues right now but look, if a spouse is denied entry at the border and the border control officials stick to their guns, all you can do is demand a superior officer. If that doesn't work, what would the spouse do?
Lodging a formal complaint won't do any good I'm afraid.

Everyone has a choice.
Do your research to understand what the legal requirement for entry is (see my post above). :xxgrinning--00xx3:


I have heard cases where the British government have been given a hefty fine by the EU for refusing to let couples who have exercised their treaty rights thru at UK immigration control.

Actually that's not the case as I understand it.
If you have caselaw please share.

The EU Commission has written a number of time about this issue and about the refusals of UK entry.
It's a bit like a bat-and-ball going back and forth.
The process can take ages (years) before the EU Commission will forward to the Courts.
As far as I am aware this has not so far happened on a single case.

Make no mistake though, UKBA have refused entry and and will likely continue to refuse entry where they see fit.

These situations certainly aren't the sort of challenge anyone wants to face at an attempted border crossing regardless of the disputes on legal technicalities of a disputed EU regulation.

[Terpe]

do you have to be married to apply the surrinder route as i,ve been living with my g f in the philippines 2 and a half years

You ask a very good question and one which does not entirely have a clearly defined answer.

Technically the Surinder Singh caselaw mentions only spouse.
Now that does not mean a UK citizen excercising EU treaty rights cannot bring their non-EEA spouse into UK. It means that there is risk that UKBA may get crusty about Family Permits.

However, as I mentioned in my reply to blackcat it's not always necessary to have a UK Family Permit in order to gain legal entry to UK.

If you are prepared/able to live and work in the EU with your family for sufficient time to secure full residence cards for all, then there is a chance that you could also secure all other documentation to enable UK entry.
Do be aware though, that there's always a risk there could be denied UK entry for some reason or other.

I don't know your planned timescales but maybe you have some time to hold fast and wait and see what the results of the UKBA review of income thresholds might be.

The EU outside of UK will eventually accept a relationship of unmarried 'partner' .

Here is the definition of "The partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested of " :-


This category covers all other long term “durable” partnerships, including both opposite-sex and same-sex relationships.There is no official definition of how long the relationship must have existed. Some countries expect to see two years of living together, but if you have a child with somebody and live with them it would clearly be incompatible with the Directive to require two years of relationship history.When a member-state does not recognize civil partnerships as equivalent to marriage, this is the category which is used for entry.

You'd need to share a lot more information on your EU plan to be able to get a better idea though.

Can you wait a bit and see how The Home Office will finally decide on this income threshold?
It may work in everyone's favour. We all have our fingers crossed on that.

Stay in touch on this topic and let's find the best option for you.

[tiger31]

You ask a very good question and one which does not entirely have a clearly defined answer.

Technically the Surinder Singh caselaw mentions only spouse.
Now that does not mean a UK citizen excercising EU treaty rights cannot bring their non-EEA spouse into UK. It means that there is risk that UKBA may get crusty about Family Permits.

However, as I mentioned in my reply to blackcat it's not always necessary to have a UK Family Permit in order to gain legal entry to UK.

If you are prepared/able to live and work in the EU with your family for sufficient time to secure full residence cards for all, then there is a chance that you could also secure all other documentation to enable UK entry.
Do be aware though, that there's always a risk there could be denied UK entry for some reason or other.

I don't know your planned timescales but maybe you have some time to hold fast and wait and see what the results of the UKBA review of income thresholds might be.

The EU outside of UK will eventually accept a relationship of unmarried 'partner' .

Here is the definition of "The partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested of " :-



You'd need to share a lot more information on your EU plan to be able to get a better idea though.

Can you wait a bit and see how The Home Office will finally decide on this income threshold?
It may work in everyone's favour. We all have our fingers crossed on that.

Stay in touch on this topic and let's find the best option for you.
ok will do i,m thinking of staying with my brother in germany with my g f take a job of some sort although i have a war pension and rental income and can live there on my income from what i understand i need a job of some sort

[Terpe]

.....i have a war pension and rental income and can live there on my income from what i understand i need a job of some sort

Technically, yes you're correct, you do need to be exercising treaty rights. Currently UKBA exclude self-sufficiency in their rules when it comes to UK entry under EU freedom of movement.

My personal view is that the EU Commission will finally lose it's patience with UK and take us to the ECHC where it's ruling cannot be ignored.
Currently all the EU Commission can do is make a complaint by Reasoned Opinion