Spouse VISA refused

[blackcat22]

My wife spouse VISA was refused and the cheeky gits asking me to pay again for appeal.

I will no doubt win the appeal but as far as i'm concerned the damage is already done as my wife will now have no choice but to give birth in phils as VISA appeals take 9 months + but she is due to give birth in 2 months time (september 2013)

I'm now planning to bring her to settle in other EU countries like Belgium, Germany or Ireland using the Surinder Singh route and working there for 3 months.

If I had known that you only need to work minimum 3 months in another member EU state to bring your wife into UK, then I would have used this method which cost nothing in VISA charge instead of lining the pocket of british government by £900 applying for Spouse VISA which nowadays seems a waste of time.

I only just found out from BBC news below that 3 months working in EU members state is enough to get your wife to UK, before that I thought you need 9 months +
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23029195

I will advice anyone applying for spouse VISA to make the Surinder Singh route their number 1 priority and lets stop linning the pocket of british government with over priced spouse VISA fee of £900. You only need to work in EU member state for 3 months and it doesn't matter matter what type of job, I would even work in low paid job at starbucks or macdonalds or the odds cleaning jobs in cities like Brussels or Dublin to exercise my treaty rights so can bring my wife in UK.

Anyone know if it's possible to register my child when he/she is born in phils at british embassy as british citizen or is it more complicated than that?

[joebloggs]

sorry to hear about the refusal blackcat,
if you want to tell us, what were the reason(s) for the refusal.

if you can go the euro route it has its advantages, especially since the changes to 5yrs to get ilr on the spouse visa.

pretty straight forward to register your child at the embassy in the phils, thou i dont think you legally need to register your child, the embassy might try and make you, just apply for a british passport for your child.

[blackcat22]

It was refused on financial ground.

I'm an IT contractor with my own limited company. Even though I gross about £140k on a yearly basis my accountant advised me to only pay myself 1k per month and take rest as director dividend to be tax efficient. this arrangement was made a while ago. so my paslip showed 12k total for year which is short of 18.5k required for VISA but I sent bank statements showing dividends payment issued to myself going in to my bank account but this was discounted because they want to see divident vouchers which I do not have.

Apart from that I sent evidence that I'm owner of 5 bedroom house and sent them recent 12 monts morgage statements all clean without any arrears.

But still the ECO officer did not believe i'm earning more than the 12k a year my payslips is showing. How is it possible to only earn 12k a year and still be able to keep up with 5 bedroom house morgage without going into arrears? I don't think the ECO officer bothered to ask himself this question.

[benjy]

Hi black cat i'm facing the same situation, but we haven't applied yet as the UKBA are looking into the income threshold we are hoping it gets scrapped otherwise we will also be looking at the surinder singh route

[Dedworth]

Sorry to hear your news BC - my Accountant sends me the dividend vouchers after we've done the yearly numbers - I suspect you'll need them to prove to HMRC if they ever ask to prove that you're not liable for income tax on the dividends

[bigmarco]

Sorry to read of your refusal especially as your baby is due shortly.
Don't quite understand why you would have not shown your monthly earnings as above the threshold if you're in a position to.
You've been a member here quite a while and like me must have read some of the horror stories.
If I had your income I would have been showing an income of 25k so there would be no question marks in respect of income.
It's not for the ECO to believe or ask himself questions about your income, it's for you to prove it.
I think the appeal costs about £150 so it might be worth it particularly if your earnings are above the threshold. Might be worth getting a professional to have a look at your paperwork.
Good luck whichever route you choose. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[blackcat22]

Yes, as a director of my own limited company i'm in control how much I pay myslef a month. we married in october last year and I suppose I could have said right then let's bump up my monthly salary to 2k per month but then I won't have been able to apply her spouse VISA until october 2013 this year anyway as I need to acrue 12 months payslips of 2k per month salary.

I was hoping seeing clearly director DIVIDENDS in bank statement topping up the 1k monthly salary should be enough prove. Infact I believe the dividends payments showing up in bank statement coming from company bank account is more cast iron prove than supplying divident vouchers they asking for which anyone could fake out.

Apart from that my accountant attached a delclaration of earnings letter with letter headed paper and phone number and if they don't believe the authenticity they can easily pick up the phone and confirm for themselves but they choose not to do so and blatantly just refused.

[blackcat22]

Hi black cat i'm facing the same situation, but we haven't applied yet as the UKBA are looking into the income threshold we are hoping it gets scrapped otherwise we will also be looking at the surinder singh route

If I were you, I would go with the surinder singh route straight away or soon as you can as you could be waiting for ages before UKBA release the pause on the financial requirement.


In my opinion, the income threshold is unjust in the sense that even people who are able to prove they earn minimum or above. This does not gurantee that they will not take public funds for example in a situation where 2 months after his spouse arrives in UK he lost his job and what happens they start taking housing benefits and job seekers allowance. :)


..and for folks who do not meet the minimum income requirement if the government are so worried about them taking public funds, why don't they give them option to sign declaration not to take public funds as condition of granting VISA? No they will not give you this option. why? because taking public funds is only a smoke screen excuse to meet conservative agenda to reduce net migration to UK

[Terpe]

I'm really sorry to learn of the visa refusal.

I know it doesn't help you now, but as Marco has said the way to handle the financial requirement is very clear and for your specific case there are some simple rules to follow.
The ECO must follow the rules and has no discretion at all.
You should have taken time to read the UKBA Financial Requirement for Directors of a Limited, or at least shown them to your accountant.
You could have used income from the last full financial year to meet the financial requirement. (Category F)
or
You could have used income based on an average of the income received in the last 2 full financial years to meet the financial requirement. (Category G)

Income from employment as a director of a limited company and dividends from this company (where the person is a director of that company), will be counted as income under Category F or Category G.


....In my opinion, the income threshold is unjust in the sense that even people who are able to prove they earn minimum or above. This does not gurantee that they will not take public funds for example in a situation where 2 months after his spouse arrives in UK he lost his job and what happens they start taking housing benefits and job seekers allowance. :)

Yes, it's a theme that's been talked about even before the new rules came into being.
Unfortunately some benefits are actually framed within legal requirements and cannot be totally excluded.
The restrictions on claiming Public Funds only apply to the visa holder. A UK citizen is fully entitled to (and allowed to) claim any public funds they are eligible to do without any impact on the immigration status of the restricted spouse.
Housing benefit and child benefit etc are allowable. If the UK citizen would lose their job they would remain eligible for all those benefits.
The major challenge would be meeting the UKBA Financial Requirement at the time for FLR(M) application 30 months down the line. Hopefully between the sponsor and spouse they could find a way to pool their incomes together to meet the income threshold.


..If I were you, I would go with the surinder singh route straight away or soon as you can as you could be waiting for ages before UKBA release the pause on the financial requirement

Yes, the so called EEA route (Surinder Singh) DOES offer an alternative and may be attractive for many folks who cannot reach the current income thresholds.

I would also advise people in the right circumstance to consider that.
But it does require planning. The challenges are not without pitfalls.

If you're seriously considering that route you would be well advised to do your research.
The BBC report does tend to gloss over some of the challenges and make it seem too easy. Not many folks get granted a UK Family Permit after just 3 months. The vast majority will have spent around 6 months exercising their treaty rights, although I personally know of a case where only 2 months resulted in a Family Permit.

Remember you'll need to be employed or self-employed in the EU member state of your choice.
Don't underestimate the unemployment levels within many EU member countries and the potential barriers if you would struggle with language and communication.
Do be sure that your income is sourced within that state and that you make all legal contributions and taxes etc
Do be aware that generally UKBA are not willing to approve an application from a family member of a British citizen if the British citizen was not properly and legally employed or self-employed in the other EEA state.
EU Member states may not accept employment which is considered marginal or transient (generally being 8-10 hours per week with income below the local social security level)
I've not personally heard of it being applicable to anyone, but just a heads-up to check if it applies in your choice of EU state.

On a more positive note, the Regulations do not set out particular professions which are considered acceptable for this purpose,
nor do they prescribe a particular amount of time which must be spent as a qualified person in another EEA state in order to engage Regulation 9.
Applications for confirmation of a right to reside on the basis of the Regulations will be considered on a case by case basis on the information and evidence presented.

Here's some links you should review. Happy reading

DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:EN:PDF)

The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/1003/regulation/9/made)

Free movement for EU citizens and their non-EU family members (http://eumovement.wordpress.com/directive-200438ec/)

Freedom to move and live in Europe (http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/citizenship/docs/guide_free_movement_low.pdf)

UKBA webpage How to apply for an EEA family permit (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/eea-family-permit/applying/)

[rani]

I am not sure if this is correct... But, i think you should have used the cash savings financial requirement option which you surely have.

[Terpe]

I am not sure if this is correct... But, i think you should have used the cash savings financial requirement option which you surely have.

Cash savings cannot be combined with self-employment income, or with income from employment as a director of a limited company in the UK, under either Category F or Category G

This would mean making application under Category D - Cash Savings and would require to applicant/sponsor to hold cash savings of minimum £62,500

That's rather a lot of cash for most folks. IMO

[blackcat22]

I'm really sorry to learn of the visa refusal.

I know it doesn't help you now, but as Marco has said the way to handle the financial requirement is very clear and for your specific case there are some simple rules to follow.
The ECO must follow the rules and has no discretion at all.
You should have taken time to read the UKBA Financial Requirement for Directors of a Limited, or at least shown them to your accountant.
You could have used income from the last full financial year to meet the financial requirement. (Category F)
or
You could have used income based on an average of the income received in the last 2 full financial years to meet the financial requirement. (Category G)

Income from employment as a director of a limited company and dividends from this company (where the person is a director of that company), will be counted as income under Category F or Category G.



Yes, it's a theme that's been talked about even before the new rules came into being.
Unfortunately some benefits are actually framed within legal requirements and cannot be totally excluded.
The restrictions on claiming Public Funds only apply to the visa holder. A UK citizen is fully entitled to (and allowed to) claim any public funds they are eligible to do without any impact on the immigration status of the restricted spouse.
Housing benefit and child benefit etc are allowable. If the UK citizen would lose their job they would remain eligible for all those benefits.
The major challenge would be meeting the UKBA Financial Requirement at the time for FLR(M) application 30 months down the line. Hopefully between the sponsor and spouse they could find a way to pool their incomes together to meet the income threshold.



Yes, the so called EEA route (Surinder Singh) DOES offer an alternative and may be attractive for many folks who cannot reach the current income thresholds.

I would also advise people in the right circumstance to consider that.
But it does require planning. The challenges are not without pitfalls.

If you're seriously considering that route you would be well advised to do your research.
The BBC report does tend to gloss over some of the challenges and make it seem too easy. Not many folks get granted a UK Family Permit after just 3 months. The vast majority will have spent around 6 months exercising their treaty rights, although I personally know of a case where only 2 months resulted in a Family Permit.

Remember you'll need to be employed or self-employed in the EU member state of your choice.
Don't underestimate the unemployment levels within many EU member countries and the potential barriers if you would struggle with language and communication.
Do be sure that your income is sourced within that state and that you make all legal contributions and taxes etc
Do be aware that generally UKBA are not willing to approve an application from a family member of a British citizen if the British citizen was not properly and legally employed or self-employed in the other EEA state.
EU Member states may not accept employment which is considered marginal or transient (generally being 8-10 hours per week with income below the local social security level)
I've not personally heard of it being applicable to anyone, but just a heads-up to check if it applies in your choice of EU state.

On a more positive note, the Regulations do not set out particular professions which are considered acceptable for this purpose,
nor do they prescribe a particular amount of time which must be spent as a qualified person in another EEA state in order to engage Regulation 9.
Applications for confirmation of a right to reside on the basis of the Regulations will be considered on a case by case basis on the information and evidence presented.

Here's some links you should review. Happy reading

DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:EN:PDF)

The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/1003/regulation/9/made)

Free movement for EU citizens and their non-EU family members (http://eumovement.wordpress.com/directive-200438ec/)

Freedom to move and live in Europe (http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/citizenship/docs/guide_free_movement_low.pdf)

UKBA webpage How to apply for an EEA family permit (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/eea-family-permit/applying/)



Thanks Terpe for a very informative reply. I suppose if I had known in advance I could have jack up my monthly salary in the run up to the VISA application. I was thinking then that ECO seeing divi payments and the actual credit reference in bank accounts clearly says "directors divident payments" coming in quaterly at sometimes 10k blocks to top up the salary should be sufficient prove.

Anyway, My wife got letter that she will get date of appeal sometimes after november 11th 2013. after nearly 5 months, she will get appeal date which will then again be 5 or 6 months from november.

So in the run up to appeal date, should I jack up my pay right now or should I still go with just paying myself divident as normal and just show this at appeal and could ask my account for divi vouchers to take to appeal. I'll rather not jack up my pay as I'll be liable to pay more tax.

while we are waiting for appeal, I want to explore the option of EEA family permit in parallel so I don't put my eggs in one basket.
My wife already have an aunty living in Switzerland so Zurich will be ideal choice for her if I want to take the EEA family permit route. But i'm not sure Switzerland is part of the deal to go and exercise treaty rights as Switzerland is not part of EU or EEA but I've read in forum some folks saying they gone to switzerland for this purpose. Can anyone clarify the position with going to Switzerland to exercise treaty rights?

PLEASE NOTE: If I had to go to europe to exercise my treaty rights to get my wife EEA family permit I'd be open to offers of any legal jobs even if it's office cleaning jobs, Mcdonalds or starBucks coffee shops etc.. paying very little as long as it's legit and plug into the EU state tax system. I really won't need the pay from these low paid job to sustain myself and main reason taking this type of job on will be to accelerate chance of finding job very quickly when I arrive at th EU country and after months 3+ head back to UK with my wife.

thnaks a lot