Labour's day of shame over the NHS

[Dedworth]

Labour's day of shame over the NHS: Thousands of unnecessary deaths, 14 hospital trusts condemned, and now devastating report demolished Labour's claim that the NHS was safe in its hands

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2365120/Keogh-review-11-NHS-hospitals-placed-special-measures-Jeremy-Hunt-reveals-thousands-patients-needlessly-died.html#ixzz2ZL41S6Ll

[grahamw48]

Hopefully they'll learn that the only people who can be trusted with running hospitals are qualified medical and nursing staff....and sufficient of them.

Time to start charging timewasters too... like drunks, and anybody else deemed to have abused the system. :xxaction-smiley-047

Perhaps people who already have 2 children should be charged for any subsequent deliveries too. :Erm:

[joebloggs]

never-mind labours day of shame. tories 3yrs of NHS cuts and closures

"People want and need this A&E unit," said Matthew Finnegan of the Save Trafford General campaign.

"Hunt has ripped the heart out of the birthplace of the NHS, just days after its 65th birthday. He hasn't listened to what local people want.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nhs-trafford-general-hospital-ae-to-close-jeremy-hunt-confirms-8703151.html

[Dedworth]

By Numbers : NHS in The Labour Years

Total expenditure on NHS in England
1997 - £33 billion
2010 - £95 billion

Total NHS Workforce
2002 - 1,161,483
2010 - 1,387,191

Total Number of NHS Nurses in England
1997 - 261000
2010 - 375000

Total Number of NHS Managers
1997- 23,000
2010 - 44,500

Nurses Average Pay
1997 - £23,600
2010 - £29,000

NHS Consultants Average Pay
1997 - £60,000
2010 - £104,000

GP's Average Pay
1997 - £44,000
2010 - £104,000

NHS Management Costs
1997 - £190 million
2010 - £1 billion

NHS Managers earning more than Prime Minister (£142,500)
1997 - 290
2010 - 650

Number of NHS Beds in England
April 1997 - 193,625
May 2010 - 144,455

Number of people on waiting lists for operations
1997 - 1.3 million
2010 - 600,000

[joebloggs]

where the figures for this year dedworth or last year,
how many hospitals department closed or hospitals ?
total work force now ?
have you got those figures :cwm25:

[Dedworth]

where the figures for this year dedworth or last year,
how many hospitals department closed or hospitals ?
total work force now ?
have you got those figures :cwm25:

All the serial failings happened under the Labour blame evaders. The report went back to 2005 when secrecy, gagging orders and the placement of cronies within senior NHS management was rife. Meeting targets was the name of the game not treating the sick.

[Doc Alan]

With respect, it’s POLITICIANS’ day of shame over the NHS :doh. Neither the English caretaker health secretary nor the shadow health secretary could find time to admit mistakes. It’s surely not impossible to make constructive criticism of the NHS and suggestions for improvements, without cynical, partisan political point scoring.


The BRITISH NHS does have problems – too much is expected with insufficient clinical staff - and needs better integration with social care. Indeed the politicians should listen to, and act on, advice given by those hard working nurses and doctors who have time to give it.



Filipinos look on with envy, while a majority of the British public still value OUR service which is essentially free at the point of delivery :smile:.

[Arthur Little]

With respect, it’s POLITICIANS’ day of shame over the NHS :doh. It’s surely not impossible to make constructive criticism of the NHS and suggestions for improvements, without cynical, partisan political point scoring.

:gp: ... and an excellent post, Alan. Anyone who thinks otherwise should take the time to :ReadIt: properly.



The BRITISH NHS does have problems – too much is expected with insufficient clinical staff - and needs better integration with social care. Indeed the politicians should listen to, and act on, advice given by those hard working nurses and doctors who have time to give it.

:iagree: ... it seems to me, :icon_rolleyes: the incessant bickering :xxsport-smiley-002: between so many of today's politicians - across the board - has caused them to lose sight of the fundamental principles on which our NHS was founded ... leading, inevitably, to the organisation itself becoming, in a sense, a victim of its own success - due to far too much control being handed over to non-medically-qualified "penpushers" at a time when more clinical staff are desperately needed, if it is expected to cope satisfactorily with the ongoing healthcare of an increasingly~ageing population.

[DaveyWallis]

I'd be interested to read Doc Alan's views on the GP contracts and their effects on A and E services. From what I've read GP's now get paid considerably more, as shown in Dedworth's figures, but do a lot less.

This, I believe, is creating a big increase in demand for A and E.

I also think that the figures for NHS management reveal a lot.

Andy

[Doc Alan]

Thank you so much Arthur :smile:


Sorry, but I am unable to make any further useful contribution to this thread.


I suggest reading the thread on the " NHS at 65, and the Philippines at 67 ", in the Health Issues section; and also " Prostate Cancer " The ONLY link with Politics and Prostate is that they both have a P :biggrin:

[Dedworth]

I don't think you can separate the NHS completely from politics as the party in power is the custodian of the NHS, policies they implement can have repercussions years later as we are seeing now. Many of the self serving, overpaid cronies in the overmanned upper echelons of management were appointed by Labour eg ex Communist NHS Chief Exec Sir David Nicholson (The Man with no Shame) who unsurprisingly started his swift climb up the ladder in 1997

GP's are paid proportionately a lot more and do less and this is solely due to the contract drawn up in 2004 which had the BMA biting off clueless John Reids arm.

Here is an article from January 2010 :-


Labour has made a mess of GP services


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/7068637/Labour-has-made-a-mess-of-GP-services.html

From what I can gather the present A & E Crisis is due both to GP's working less hours and not being available for home visits along with peoples correct refusal to accept "the earliest routine appointment we can give you is in 2 weeks time". The situation is further worsened by hordes of immigrants who think hospital is always the first port of call and other non english speaking immigrants taking far longer than is necessary at GP appointments.

I'll be interested to hear Docs view as a retired NHS Professional on this mess

[joebloggs]

I'd be interested to read Doc Alan's views on the GP contracts and their effects on A and E services. From what I've read GP's now get paid considerably more, as shown in Dedworth's figures, but do a lot less.

This, I believe, is creating a big increase in demand for A and E.

I also think that the figures for NHS management reveal a lot.

Andy

Salaried GPs employed directly by PCTs earn between £53,781 to £81,158, dependent on, among other factors, length of service and experience.
http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/doctors/pay-for-doctors/

of course some earn more , they do extra work or are partners in a clinic

the increase in demand for A&E, will be partly because the tories have shut A and E units in some hospitals :doh

your wrong about home visits, my wife has done home visits, hours for gp's some start 8:30 and finish at 6:00pm.

[Terpe]

If ever I needed a home visit for my dad I could always get one.

[Iani]

Well as I see it, the NHS is the same as education - a political football for both sides, and both the NHS and schools would be much better off if they were run by apolitical managers, and every politician was FORBIDDEN from going anywhere near either of them :cwm23:

[andy222]

Well as I see it, the NHS is the same as education - a political football for both sides, and both the NHS and schools would be much better off if they were run by apolitical managers, and every politician was FORBIDDEN from going anywhere near either of them :cwm23::xxgrinning--00xx3:. I just hope Hunt dont start kissing the badge on his collar like the footballers do. Then again it is the sort of thing he would do. Lets face it the tories will not put any extra money into the NHS because too many of their party have got fingers in the pies of private health care companies.

[bigmarco]

I think I'm missing something but the figures below are pretty good to me. I want more Doctors and Nurses being paid more money to bring the waiting lists down by more than 50%.
On a personal level I always feel as though the NHS is in safer hands when it's being controlled by anybody other than Tories.
We have issues in our area where the Tories are trying to cut services at St Helier NHS trust and people are not happy as a lot of the people in that area voted Liberal.
Total Number of NHS Nurses in England
1997 - 261000
2010 - 375000
Nurses Average Pay
1997 - £23,600
2010 - £29,000
GP's Average Pay
1997 - £44,000
2010 - £104,000
NHS Consultants Average Pay
1997 - £60,000
2010 - £104,000
Number of people on waiting lists for operations
1997 - 1.3 million
2010 - 600,000
I think that the NHS is something that this country should be proud of. Too often it gets a kicked about by politicians trying to score political points. It's far from perfect, I for one don't like to read about chavs getting cosmetic surgery for vanity reasons.
The problems we've got at the moment were not caused by Doctors, Nurses, Soldiers, Policemen and Firemen and it's not right that they are being used as a remedy. This Government should be making the City of London pay back for all the trouble they've caused instead of turning a blind eye. It might also be an idea to cancel our overseas aid budget until we've got our own finances back on an even keel.

[Doc Alan]

Forgive me for taking a little time to post further on this complicated topic - I decided I couldn't " opt out " :smile: !


The “ crisis in A&E “ is not limited to England – there are similar problems in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.


In Scotland multiple problems include growing elderly population and cuts in numbers of hospital beds. In Wales overcrowded A&E, unprecedented levels of admissions, and bed shortages have been blamed. In Northern Ireland some of the busiest A&E are reaching " breaking point ".


The current English health secretary publicly blamed GPs and the previous Labour Government for the crisis in acute services. Around 3/4 of Foundation Trusts think their A&E are at " tipping point " . It’s hard to avoid politics ( and more statistics ) completely, but there does seem to be more than one contributory factor.


• More doctors need to go into A&E medicine or the specialty won’t survive. It’s a vicious circle.

• Increasing demand for access to ALL NHS services.


• Despite the GP contract ( agreed under Labour ) they claim most out-of-hours care IS still provided by them.


• Patients are confused – do they try calling an NHS advice/helpline ; use out-of-hours GP service ; walk-in centres ; minor injury units ; or decide A&E is the " safest bet " ? More are certainly using A&E.


• Admissions are rising, bed numbers are falling, and there needs to be better integration between primary care ( GPs ), secondary care ( hospitals ) and social services ( to avoid hospital " bed blocking " because there is nowhere suitable to discharge patients ).



• Other possible solutions include GP beds in hospitals, and GPs doing patient " follow ups " ( instead of hospital doctors ).


http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)61574-3/fulltext?rss=yes

[Jamesey]

.
.
I think that the NHS is something that this country should be proud of.

:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3: Good post.

I'm always disappointed when the NHS is attacked as a way of scoring cheap political points. :NoNo:

Our NHS is the envy of the world and although there will always be problems in an organisation that big, overall it is a great service. I think that the regard in which we hold the NHS was captured well in the Olympic Games Opening Ceremony. It's part of who we are.

Every time my family and I have needed to use the NHS, I have nearly always been impressed by the service that I have received and the professionalism of the staff. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

And being married to a front line NHS nurse, I do get to hear both sides of the story!

[Dedworth]

The secret Health Minister: In nurse's tunic, remarkable image of Jeremy Hunt on one of his regular undercover hospital missions... as revealed during exclusive interview


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2371916/Jeremy-Hunt-pictured-nurses-tunic-undercover-hospital-mission.html#ixzz2Zm9lPk3n

- can't imagine sly,deceitful scouser Andy Burnham doing this when he was Health Secretary - too busy turning a deaf ear to whistleblowers, bigging up targets whilst burying bad news as he had a few sherbets with his electorate in the Jolly Giro

[les_taxi]

The secret Health Minister: In nurse's tunic, remarkable image of Jeremy Hunt on one of his regular undercover hospital missions... as revealed during exclusive interview


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2371916/Jeremy-Hunt-pictured-nurses-tunic-undercover-hospital-mission.html#ixzz2Zm9lPk3n

- can't imagine sly,deceitful scouser Andy Burnham doing this when he was Health Secretary - too busy turning a deaf ear to whistleblowers, bigging up targets whilst burying bad news as he had a few sherbets with his electorate in the Jolly Giro
Your right Ded,Burnham is full of ....

[Dedworth]

:xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3: Good post.

I'm always disappointed when the NHS is attacked as a way of scoring cheap political points. :NoNo:

Our NHS is the envy of the world and although there will always be problems in an organisation that big, overall it is a great service. I think that the regard in which we hold the NHS was captured well in the Olympic Games Opening Ceremony. It's part of who we are.

Every time my family and I have needed to use the NHS, I have nearly always been impressed by the service that I have received and the professionalism of the staff. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

And being married to a front line NHS nurse, I do get to hear both sides of the story!

That's great to hear that the NHS is still the "envy of the world" (Copyright T Blair 1997)

I knew I shouldn't have dared to consider that anything written in the Guardian by a left wing journalist would come close to the truth :-

Look beyond the politics – Britain's healthcare really is in crisis


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/18/look-beyond-politics-healthcare-in-crisis

[joebloggs]

The secret Health Minister: In nurse's tunic, remarkable image of Jeremy Hunt on one of his regular undercover hospital missions... as revealed during exclusive interview


Hunt does regular shifts at NHS hospitals to investigate patient complaints





how about listening to nurses and doctors complaints too :doh

[Dedworth]

how about listening to nurses and doctors complaints too :doh

Well he listens to whistleblowers which the likes of Reid, Hewitt, Johnson and Burnham didn't - they were too busy bragging about targets and blindly accepting whatever BS the man with no shame and other tame Labour appointees gave them

[joebloggs]

- can't imagine sly,deceitful

maybe you got a bit confused dedworth hunt had been investigated by the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and repaid half the money he should not have claimed (nearly £10k) and also Tax avoidance



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Hunt_%28politician%29

pretty shameful hey dedworth or have you got double standards :biggrin:

[Dedworth]

pretty shameful hey dedworth or have you got double standards :biggrin:

Nothing to do with NHS issues Joe which slippery Burnham is avoiding and also getting his staff to delete Wikipedia entries .

Hunt is a wealthy businessman and the divi's were perfectly legal as I'm sure are the millions paid to Lady Margaret Hodge (née Oppenheimer) by her family firm despite the fact that they pay 0.01pc tax on £2.1bn of business generated in the UK:smile:

[joebloggs]

no wonder why he's wealthy claiming money he was not entitled to :doh

also the tax avoidance might be legal but not morally correct for a politician to do, then again what morals do Tories have when it concerns money :biggrin:

[Dedworth]

no wonder why he's wealthy claiming money he was not entitled to :doh

also the tax avoidance might be legal but not morally correct for a politician to do, then again what morals do Tories have when it concerns money :biggrin:

Are you suggesting the Blair, Hodge, Woodward morals are different Joe ?

[joebloggs]

i don't care if they are labour, tory or from any other party if they did wrong, how can you call him sly,deceitful when compared to Hunt :doh

[Dedworth]

i don't care if they are labour, tory or from any other party if they did wrong, how can you call him sly,deceitful when compared to Hunt :doh

He is sly and deceitful in many ways Joe but in the NHS context because he refuses to accept any blame for what went on under his watch as Health Secretary and :-

Shadow Health Secretary Andy Burnham's staff deleted 'negative' Wikipedia references

Staff working for Shadow Health Secretary Andy Burnham have been removing negative references to his role in NHS scandals including Mid Staffs from his Wikipedia profile.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10193346/Shadow-Health-Secretary-Andy-Burnhams-staff-deleted-negative-Wikipedia-references.html

[Jamesey]

As Joe Bloggs has quite rightly posted, Hunt is just the same as the rest of the expenses cheats.

But the worst thing about him is that he actually believes that homeopathy is a valid treatment! Taking this into account, there is no way that he should be the Health Minister. It's like having someone who believes the world is flat as Foreign Minister!

How can you possibly take him seriously?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100179258/jeremy-hunt-health-secretary-thinks-homeopathy-works/