What a pair of stupid girls

[bigmarco]

Peru drug arrests: Michaella McCollum denies wrongdoing


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23687625

[sheriel]

We agree Stupid :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

It's so easy for youngsters to wander the world now, but that doesn't mean they have the maturity or common sense to cope with the dangers and pitfalls when doing so. :NoNo:

[Dedworth]

I suspect they are guilty trying to make a quick buck - lucky they weren't in Sing or Malaysia

[joebloggs]

they say they were 'forced to carry the bags', yet they didn't know they were carrying drugs :doh, why not flush the stuff down the toilet before they checked in.

i find it hard to believe they didn't know the consequences of their actions with recent cases of British and others being caught trying to smuggle drugs thru airports.:NoNo:

[tiger31]

just seen them laughing and joking eating cakes on video in peru ,they won,t be laughing when they get 25 years in jail thats for sure :biggrin:

[London_Manila]

Feeble excuses "AT GUNPOINT"

They could have approached security at the airport before boarding the flight and told them the full story

Drug Mules are dumb and these girls think that anyone is going to believe this story

If it had been 2 middle aged guys we probably would never even heard about it.......

[joebloggs]

your caught it a foreign country trying to smuggle drugs, and of course they always claim they didn't know and was forced to :icon_lol:, does anyone ever admit to it :doh

[Ako Si Jamie]

That's another episode of Banged Up Abroad to look forward to then. :wink:

[mickcant]

Were they so greedy that they did not want to just take advantage of us generouse Men to get money :biggrin:

Mick

[Dedworth]

just seen them laughing and joking eating cakes on video in peru ,they won,t be laughing when they get 25 years in jail thats for sure :biggrin:


Here you go Tiger :-

Piece of cake: British teens seen laughing and eating donuts in jail . . . just days after being arrested with £1.5million of cocaine they now claim 'gangsters forced them to smuggle on pain of death'

Michaella McCollum Connolly, 20, and Melissa Reid, 19, arrested last week
The girls from Northern Ireland and Scotland were 'caught' at Lima airport
Reid 'was forced to fly there with Connolly after being kidnapped in Spain'
Pair spent their seventh night behind bars last night after being arrested
Reid: 'We weren't smuggling for money, we were smuggling for our lives'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2391393/Peru-cocaine-arrests-British-girls-claimed-kidnapped-forced-smuggle-drugs.html#ixzz2bvgU7iMg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqFMwAG-weE

[joebloggs]

Reid 'was forced to fly there with Connolly after being kidnapped in Spain'


so how did they get to Peru in the back of a lorry ?
they must have flown there by plane, were they at gunpoint from being 'kidnapped' til they arrived in Peru :biggrin:

[bigmarco]

My daughters not long returned from Ibiza where she said drugs are everywhere. She said they even had someone knocking on their door one night offering drugs for sale.
These 2 silly girls would appear to have gone on an errand for a dealer and got caught. My advice to them is to sit down with someone and start talking because they need to start naming names, otherwise it could be a long time before they see home again :mad:

[Michael Parnham]

They knew what they were doing and now they will have to pay the price, I've no sympathy for them at all. Notice, they are very brazen!:crazy:

[Dedworth]

They knew what they were doing and now they will have to pay the price, I've no sympathy for them at all. Notice, they are very brazen!:crazy:

Wouldn't be so smug if they were facing the noose

[johncar54]

As an ex detective I tend to ‘take with a bit of salt’ explanations which amount to, ‘ I did not know ……..’ etc. However, before we all say they will get what they deserve: From the bits and pieces of news, I gather they were threatened in Peru, at one point with a gun to the head which may have been cocked, told their families would be harmed, (apparently the gang had information about their families) and were followed into the airport, and would have been followed on the flight, by members of the drugs gang.

If that were true, then they may not have been able to seek help as soon as they got to the airport, if they believed they were being followed, and I can’t believe any drugs gang would let such a quantity of drug leave their sight.

So the main question I would like to ask is, “How did they come to travel to Peru ? “ I think that explanation will give weight to whether they they were willing accomplices or victims.

For me the ‘jury is still out’.

[Michael Parnham]

As an ex detective I tend to ‘take with a bit of salt’ explanations which amount to, ‘ I did not know ……..’ etc. However, before we all say they will get what they deserve: From the bits and pieces of news, I gather they were threatened in Peru, at one point with a gun to the head which may have been cocked, told their families would be harmed, (apparently the gang had information about their families) and were followed into the airport, and would have been followed on the flight, by members of the drugs gang.

If that were true, then they may not have been able to seek help as soon as they got to the airport, if they believed they were being followed, and I can’t believe any drugs gang would let such a quantity of drug leave their sight.

So the main question I would like to ask is, “How did they come to travel to Peru ? “ I think that explanation will give weight to whether they they were willing accomplices or victims.

For me the ‘jury is still out’.

Interesting comment John!:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Ako Si Jamie]

I wouldn't be surprised if these gangs operate in holiday places like Ibiza with the intent on recruiting naive teenagers as mules. I bet they didn't have to wait long too.

[stevewool]

no pity at all for them both

[London_Manila]

As an ex detective I tend to ‘take with a bit of salt’ explanations which amount to, ‘ I did not know ……..’ etc. However, before we all say they will get what they deserve: From the bits and pieces of news, I gather they were threatened in Peru, at one point with a gun to the head which may have been cocked, told their families would be harmed, (apparently the gang had information about their families) and were followed into the airport, and would have been followed on the flight, by members of the drugs gang.

If that were true, then they may not have been able to seek help as soon as they got to the airport, if they believed they were being followed, and I can’t believe any drugs gang would let such a quantity of drug leave their sight.

So the main question I would like to ask is, “How did they come to travel to Peru ? “ I think that explanation will give weight to whether they they were willing accomplices or victims.

For me the ‘jury is still out’.

The newspapers here seem to have fallen for their story as well so far

I put to you that this story was concocted well before they even set foot Peru

I am sure that gang members were not roaming around the airport with guns also

Drug mules normally point the finger at anyone apart from themselves

These 2 dimwits were having a great time in Ibiza until the money run out but their chosen
new career path proved to be not as fruitful as they first thought

[joebloggs]

As an ex detective I tend to ‘take with a bit of salt’ explanations which amount to, ‘ I did not know ……..’ etc. However, before we all say they will get what they deserve: From the bits and pieces of news, I gather they were threatened in Peru, at one point with a gun to the head which may have been cocked, told their families would be harmed, (apparently the gang had information about their families) and were followed into the airport, and would have been followed on the flight, by members of the drugs gang.

If that were true, then they may not have been able to seek help as soon as they got to the airport, if they believed they were being followed, and I can’t believe any drugs gang would let such a quantity of drug leave their sight.

So the main question I would like to ask is, “How did they come to travel to Peru ? “ I think that explanation will give weight to whether they they were willing accomplices or victims.

For me the ‘jury is still out’.

if any of the gang were on the flight with them, then it would be pretty easy to find out who they were, unless they were traveling on fake passports, also airports are full of CCTV, any gang member would be caught on video.

i still find in hard to believe if what they said was true, that they must have had many chances to get help from police or security people at the airport in Spain or Peru.

[johncar54]

I heard on the news this morning that the women have not been formally interviewed as there is no interpreter available. If that is correct then no police action will probably have been taken to confirm or disprove their claims.

Even if investigation has taken place, it is impossible to reasonably comment of what they have discovered as I understand no details have been disclosed.


Joebloggs . if any of the gang were on the flight with them, then it would be pretty easy to find out who they were…

I have not heard any explanation how the women got to Peru. I did not hear that they were ‘escorted’ on the flight to there so Joe your comment about surveillance cameras at present seems irrelevant.

[lordna]

There is a mention in the report of a third girl that got away? If this girl could be found then maybe she could corroborate their story. As others have said , if a gang member was on the flight why wasn't he detained once they had told their story?

Its very hard to tell if these girls are just telling a story.

[joebloggs]

I heard on the news this morning that the women have not been formally interviewed as there is no interpreter available. If that is correct then no police action will probably have been taken to confirm or disprove their claims.

Even if investigation has taken place, it is impossible to reasonably comment of what they have discovered as I understand no details have been disclosed.


Joebloggs . if any of the gang were on the flight with them, then it would be pretty easy to find out who they were…

I have not heard any explanation how the women got to Peru. I did not hear that they were ‘escorted’ on the flight to there so Joe your comment about surveillance cameras at present seems irrelevant.

She also revealed that the first time the women met was after being kidnapped and taken to the drug cartel's safe house in Majorca.

Ms Reid was the first to be sent to Lima, on August 1.

She was joined by photography student and former nightclub hostess Ms McCollum Connolly a day later.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2391393/Peru-cocaine-arrests-British-girls-claimed-kidnapped-forced-smuggle-drugs.html#ixzz2c2SkwSRj
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[johncar54]

As others have said , if a gang member was on the flight why wasn't he detained once they had told their story?.
As others have said , if a gang member was on the flight why wasn't he detained once they had told their story?

Firstly, they did not actually board the flight, secondly it seems they have not been questioned (no interpreter) and so far we don’t know if the women knew who the ‘escort’ was, just a 'gang member’ keeping them under observation. If they really believed that, then maybe no escort was needed by the gang. They would of course be ‘met’ on arrival.

OK that's it for me. I know better than to speculate further, if and until, more accurate info comes to light. As I said above ' The jury is still out for me '

[fred]

I just feel sorry for their family members back in the UK. Pretty horrific situation IMO.. As always..Too many Judges condemning without evidence or real facts.. Guilty as charged!!

[London_Manila]

I just feel sorry for their family members back in the UK. Pretty horrific situation IMO.. As always..Too many Judges condemning without evidence or real facts.. Guilty as charged!!

Spare a thought for all the poor people who would have been effected and addicted and ruined
if this stuff had have made it into the UK

Yes i have judged them and i plead guilty on that one

These 2 were not exactly "students" on a gap year in IBIZA
One of them was sacked by her x boss in Ibiza for drinking too much on duty
The alibi is well used by many drug mules all over the world
They did not appear to look very threatened to me when they stuffed their faces with
cake after being caught red handed at the airport if anything they seemed to revel in the limelight
It shows the level of intelligence we are dealing with here


There must have been many occasions when they could have informed the police or authorities
They chose not to inform anyone.....
I dare say in the coming weeks much more will be revealed about these 2

[joebloggs]

.Too many Judges condemning without evidence or real facts.. Guilty as charged!!

caught with £1.5million of cocaine



There must have been many occasions when they could have informed the police or authorities
They chose not to inform anyone.....


:xxgrinning--00xx3: i think any reasonable person would have exactly done this, I know I would have have done :doh

[RickyR]

I feel that there must be something genuine in their story, because clearly the Peruvian authorities are believing them. I wonder whether they cooperated from an early stage with the authorities. They look frightfully relaxed and comfortable during all of the TV footage which doesn't make any sense unless they are being treated very well.

I know that Filipino seafarers get drawn into being drug mules on some of the South America-Europe liner trades, and serious threats are made to their families back home. I know someone who used to be an informant for the DEA in the US who told me a lot of stories about how bad these gangs actually are.

[Ako Si Jamie]

Phil Collins' nephews gang apparently involved.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/08/15/nephew-of-rock-star-phil-collins-recruited-peru-drugs-pair-3924942/

[Terpe]

These are young girls lacking life experiences.

Yes, they have been very stupid to ever get involved at the outset.
But once involved, groomed and manipulated they probably didn't know what to do.
At this stage nothing is known about their decision making leading them to their current position.

[London_Manila]

I feel that there must be something genuine in their story, because clearly the Peruvian authorities are believing them. I wonder whether they cooperated from an early stage with the authorities. They look frightfully relaxed and comfortable during all of the TV footage which doesn't make any sense unless they are being treated very well.

I know that Filipino seafarers get drawn into being drug mules on some of the South America-Europe liner trades, and serious threats are made to their families back home. I know someone who used to be an informant for the DEA in the US who told me a lot of stories about how bad these gangs actually are.

They looked so relaxed because they think everyone has believed their well rehearsed "cock and bull" story

I am sure that if you had spent the last few months in fear of your life and had guns pointed at your head you would not be gouging on cake and smiling like a Cheshire cat :doh

They hardly appeared to look like poor little victims to me

South American drug cartels and cockney gentlemen in Ibiza dont need to force people to do this because there are enough idiots out there only willing to give it a go with £ signs in their eyes

[fred]

Spare a thought for all the poor people who would have been effected and addicted and ruined if this stuff had have made it into the UKI cant spare a thought for these "poor" people as they are weak minded IMO and the ones creating a a huge and lucrative demand and market for drug cartels.. These poor people have their own issues to deal with.. No one is forcing them to take drugs!!These girls just like most drug mules are guilty of being young and stupid.. Instead of arresting them,they should be used to help Police nail the cartels from the bottom up but they don't!! Perhaps in countries like Peru the Police are part of the cartels!!If you want to kill a weed you need to pull it out with its roots..They never do.Wonder why? I don't.. Its quite obvious to me.

[tiger31]

Wouldn't be so smug if they were facing the noosegood job it was,nt china it would definitely be good night vienna .

[Michael Parnham]

I cant spare a thought for these "poor" people as they are weak minded IMO and the ones creating a a huge and lucrative demand and market for drug cartels.. These poor people have their own issues to deal with.. No one is forcing them to take drugs!!These girls just like most drug mules are guilty of being young and stupid.. Instead of arresting them,they should be used to help Police nail the cartels from the bottom up but they don't!! Perhaps in countries like Peru the Police are part of the cartels!!If you want to kill a weed you need to pull it out with its roots..They never do.Wonder why? I don't.. Its quite obvious to me.

Interesting comment Fred!

[joebloggs]

I think the cops do try and catch the leaders of these gangs, but they're smart enough to make it nearly impossible for them to be caught and convicted of anything, as they get others to do their dirty work, unless caught red handed.

eg

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/332743/Nephew-of-Phil-Collins-linked-to-Peru-drug-mule-gang

[London_Manila]

First Sergeant Alberto Arian Barrilla who heads up the Ibiza crime unit responsible for fighting organised crime on the island: "in my experience, i dont think these two girls were forced to do this because - particulary when you go to South America - you need to pass several controls"

I would imagine this guy knows what he is talking about...........

[fred]

Interesting comment Fred!Thanks Michael..They always seem to remember to display the drug haul and the dumb mules and then forget to condemn,capture and demonise the dealers and cartels!! DOH!!!http://blog.prudentialct.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/cart_before_the_horse12.jpg

[gWaPito]

No sympathy from me. They knew what they were getting into..they thought it was going to be an easy buck..If the papers are to be believed, only one out of every ten mules get caught on that run plus the girls were buoyed up by stories of people having successfully done it, partying away.
I feel for their hard working parents. Parents who will now be spending the rest of their days holidaying in Peru..I bet they didn't see that coming :NoNo:

[joebloggs]

Mario Ramirez-Trevino, Mexico's Gulf Cartel leader, in custody, law enforcement sources say

A top drug cartel figure wanted by the U.S. government since 2008 was arrested Saturday in Mexico, CBS News reports.

Two law enforcement sources told CBS News that Mario Ramirez-Trevino, also known as Mario Pelon, was captured Saturday morning by Mexican authorities. Ramirez-Trevino is the head of Mexico's Gulf Cartel.

read more here .. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57599008/mario-ramirez-trevino-mexicos-gulf-cartel-leader-in-custody-law-enforcement-sources-say/

[Michael Parnham]

Thanks Micheal..They always seem to remember to display the drug haul and the dumb mules and then forget to condemn,capture and demonise the dealers and cartels!! DOH!!!http://blog.prudentialct.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/cart_before_the_horse12.jpg

Too true Fred! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[bigmarco]

Probably because I have 2 daughters around the same age I'm a little soft on this one. These girls have been very stupid but sometimes people deserve a chance. Provided they supply all the details of their contacts to the police I'd be inclined to give them 6 months in a hell hole of a prison and send them back to mum and dad. I'm sure a lesson will have been learnt.

[marksroomspain]

My motto is you live by the sword you die by the sword.

I have seen friends of mine who have had there lives ruined by drugs and families destroyed by this filth.

I have every sympathy for the families of these girls but a price has to be paid and now at least thats another stash of drugs not heading towards our kids.

[gWaPito]

My motto is you live by the sword you die by the sword.

I have seen friends of mine who have had there lives ruined by drugs and families destroyed by this filth.

I have every sympathy for the families of these girls but a price has to be paid and now at least thats another stash of drugs not heading towards our kids.

Although I can see Marco's point of view. .I too have a son who got involved in the rave scene in the 90s. .he was lucky, he didn't have to addictive gene. .a couple of his friends weren't so lucky. As parents, we were powerless so I can sympathise.

Mark is right. .These bright intelligent girls knew exactly what they were getting involved in. ..death and misery of hundreds of families had their drug haul made it to the dealers.

A message must be sent here. .Peru are doing the right thing. ..not much we can do with the untouchable cartels I'm afraid. .fingers in too many pies, governments included as was correctly implied here.

It's got to be made uncool to be a mule!

[joebloggs]

My motto is you live by the sword you die by the sword.

I have seen friends of mine who have had there lives ruined by drugs and families destroyed by this filth.

I have every sympathy for the families of these girls but a price has to be paid and now at least thats another stash of drugs not heading towards our kids.

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

my younger brother was a drug addict for more than 20yrs, it destroyed him and my family, one of the worse days in my life was having to go and identify his dead body, something i wouldn't wish on anyone :NoNo:

if they are guilty 20yrs each, if not they still were prepared to try and smuggle the drugs and they should spend time in prison.

[johncar54]

Hang on guys.

The people who supply the drugs of course need to be dealt with, but without the users they would not exist. Bit like blaming the householder because his house gets burgled, or the girl who got raped, as being to blame.

I really am amazed at the number of ‘crystal ball readers’ here who have already decided the women (not girls) are guilty. They may be or they may not be.

Following the line of those who believe they are guilty, maybe they would argue that in UK we do without a trial, if a person is arrested then they are guilty, just sentence them.

But then I suspect that many of the same guys, are also of the opinion the police lie (as they did of course when they got nicked for speeding !! ) so you can’t trust them.

No, lets stick with innocent until proven guilty.

[joebloggs]

Hang on guys.

The people who supply the drugs of course need to be dealt with, but without the users they would not exist. Bit like blaming the householder because his house gets burgled, or the girl who got raped, as being to blame.

I really am amazed at the number of ‘crystal ball readers’ here who have already decided the women (not girls) are guilty. They may be or they may not be.

Following the line of those who believe they are guilty, maybe they would argue that in UK we do without a trial, if a person is arrested then they are guilty, just sentence them.

But then I suspect that many of the same guys, are also of the opinion the police lie (as they did of course when they got nicked for speeding !! ) so you can’t trust them.

No, lets stick with innocent until proven guilty.


but without drugs there would be no drug addicts, we do have drug addicts because they had access to drugs, it makes sense if my brother didn't have access to drugs he wouldn't have been an addict.

they were caught trying to smuggle £1.5m worth of cocaine, they are not denying that.

[grahamw48]

Hang on guys.

The people who supply the drugs of course need to be dealt with, but without the users they would not exist. Bit like blaming the householder because his house gets burgled, or the girl who got raped, as being to blame.

I really am amazed at the number of ‘crystal ball readers’ here who have already decided the women (not girls) are guilty. They may be or they may not be.

Following the line of those who believe they are guilty, maybe they would argue that in UK we do without a trial, if a person is arrested then they are guilty, just sentence them.

But then I suspect that many of the same guys, are also of the opinion the police lie (as they did of course when they got nicked for speeding !! ) so you can’t trust them.

No, lets stick with innocent until proven guilty.

Why must you be so pedantic, arrogant and miserable ?

It's a DISCUSSION, open to all.

Our views here are not going to hang anybody, but we are just as entitled to express them as you are to try to close everyone else down by either wading in with your big (ex) policeman's truncheon, or by putting words and opinions into other contributors' mouths....even concerning totally unrelated matters. :NoNo:

There are people on this forum who have been and perhaps are still personally affected by the drugs trade.

Let's hear what they have to say.

[joebloggs]

Peru drug arrests: Pal of Melissa Reid reveals the alleged drugs mule held cocaine parties in Ibiza after 'getting into wrong crowd'

THE girl who does not want to be named, decided to return home early after she claimed Melissa was up all night partying and taking drugs.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/peru-drug-arrests-pal-melissa-2181497

and

A taxi driver in Lima told how he chauffeured the two girls on shopping trips in the Peruvian capital where they appeared to be “carefree” rather than under pressure from drug pushers.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396280/Duped-drug-mule-friend-eyed-villain-Peru-girls-Ibiza-link-fraudster-blinded-feud-notorious-Goldfinger-gangster.html#ixzz2cKMzAOyr
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

but your right innocent until proven guilty.

[Ako Si Jamie]

It doesn't add up. Why would a gang go to the trouble of 'kidnapping' these girls to transport drugs when there's plenty of willing mules to do it anyhow?

And all this 'gunpoint' nonsense. Were they marched through the airport with a gun to their head? Don't think so. They could have easily dumped the drugs down the toilets before boarding the plane.

[grahamw48]

Maybe it was the threats to their family ? :Erm:

[johncar54]

Our views here are not going to hang anybody, but we are just as entitled to express them as you are to try to close everyone else down by either wading in with your big (ex) policeman's truncheon,

Sorry guys, it seems although Graham thinks, correctly, that everyone should have a view, that does not apply to me because I am a former police officer and I am saying that everyone has a right to have their explanation of events considered when they are accused of a crime. And that they have the right to considered innocent until proven otherwise.

It's a DISCUSSION, open to all. Seems it is not.

[SimonH]

Hang on guys.

The people who supply the drugs of course need to be dealt with, but without the users they would not exist. Bit like blaming the householder because his house gets burgled, or the girl who got raped, as being to blame.



Maybe you could explain this analogy to me :Erm:

To draw parallels are you saying that a householder pays someone to rob their house? Or maybe without houses then burglars wouldn't exist, or without women then rapists wouldn't exist. Maybe without crime then the police force wouldn't exist :cwm25:

[Ako Si Jamie]

Maybe it was the threats to their family ? :Erm:If they bottled it just before they were to fly back from Peru, I can believe that.

[joebloggs]

Maybe it was the threats to their family ? :Erm:

A taxi driver in Lima told how he chauffeured the two girls on shopping trips in the Peruvian capital where they appeared to be “carefree” rather than under pressure from drug pushers.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2cKMzAOyr
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[grahamw48]

The company they were keeping doesn't help their case either.

Every parents' nightmare ? :NoNo:

.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396280/Duped-drug-mule-friend-eyed-villain-Peru-girls-Ibiza-link-fraudster-blinded-feud-notorious-Goldfinger-gangster.html?ICO=most_read_module

[andy222]

They knew what they were doing. It just goes to show you can bring kids up properly and advise them but sooner or later they will make their own minds up and make mistakes.

[Michael Parnham]

We have all learned more things from the mistakes we've made I'm sure!:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

We have all learned more things from the mistakes we've made I'm sure! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

not many of us would even think of, never mind trying to smuggling drugs thou, that's one major mistake :NoNo:

[grahamw48]

Yes, murder is a learning process too. They don't always die after the first hammer blow. :doh

[London_Manila]

I am surprised anyone even believes their story for a second = gullible or what :doh

Yes innocent until proven guilty but i am not going along with their story

Threats to the family like what ???

They were caught red handed and all these bola bola stories are just mitigating circumstances that might help them to get a lesser sentence

[lordna]

Our views here are not going to hang anybody, but we are just as entitled to express them as you are to try to close everyone else down by either wading in with your big (ex) policeman's truncheon,

Sorry guys, it seems although Graham thinks, correctly, that everyone should have a view, that does not apply to me because I am a former police officer and I am saying that everyone has a right to have their explanation of events considered when they are accused of a crime. And that they have the right to considered innocent until proven otherwise.

It's a DISCUSSION, open to all. Seems it is not.

I agree with you completely!

[lordna]

Hang on guys.

The people who supply the drugs of course need to be dealt with, but without the users they would not exist. Bit like blaming the householder because his house gets burgled, or the girl who got raped, as being to blame.

I really am amazed at the number of ‘crystal ball readers’ here who have already decided the women (not girls) are guilty. They may be or they may not be.

Following the line of those who believe they are guilty, maybe they would argue that in UK we do without a trial, if a person is arrested then they are guilty, just sentence them.

But then I suspect that many of the same guys, are also of the opinion the police lie (as they did of course when they got nicked for speeding !! ) so you can’t trust them.

No, lets stick with innocent until proven guilty.

I agree with this too!
Opinions on here are based on what the press choose to report and NOT the facts that a court will see. We all know the press are very selective about what gets reported.

[joebloggs]

well we should find out soon, what, if anything, they will be charged with :Erm:

[grahamw48]

@lordna...

Who said he couldn't express his view ? :NoNo:

Read my post.

[lordna]

they were caught trying to smuggle £1.5m worth of cocaine, they are not denying that.

They were caught with the Drugs Yes, but it MAY be that someone else was trying to smuggle them using the girls as the means of transport.

IMHO though, going by the press reports, it seems unlikely that these girls were as innocent as they make out...but then i don't believe we are in full possesion of all the facts which i am sure the court s will be. Let them be the judge of that.

[lordna]

@lordna...

Who said he couldn't express his view ? :NoNo:

Read my post.

Yes i did read your post and i thought that a couple of things in it were a bit personal and attempting to discredit the opinions expressed which IMHO were perfectly valid.
The reason i mention it here is that on a number of occasions this has happened to me. It seems there is a "hard core" of opinion on this forum, and if you choose to air a different view not in accordance with them, posts are then made to try and ridicule the person.

Taking quotes your recent post:-
"Why must you be so pedantic, arrogant and miserable" has nothing to do with the subject but is a personal remark to the author, as where the references to him being an ex police officer.

You didn't say he couldn't express his view BUT you did probably make him feel uncomfortable enough to not even bother next time.

[grahamw48]

Most of his posts have been in the same vein recently...the big 'I know it all' because I used to be a policeman'.

Anyone not noticing that would have to be either blind or stupid.

That's why I have him on ignore and can only see his posts when they've been quoted by others.

I'm a a light-hearted cheerful person 99% of the time and I certainly don't consider myself special or in kind of clique on this board (I hate that kind of stuff anyway), but yes, some of us do have strong views and opinions. If other members feel they've been snubbed or insulted, then they can complain to the mods. We're all grownups, and certainly I'd expect ex-policemen ....as an example, to be made of pretty stern stuff, and to be able to cope with the literary hurly burly of an average forum.

All I was asking was for John not to come marching in with his 'innocent until proven guilty' proclamation like he was some judge with his little hammer.

Let's have a chat without trying to squash the views of others....however unpalatable they may seem.

There have been many times when I've been made to feel 'uncomfortable' too, but I'll be a man about it, even though that seems to be frowned upon in some quarters these days.

There are plenty of topics on the board for those of a more delicate constitution. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[fred]

Taking quotes your recent post:-
"Why must you be so pedantic, arrogant and miserable" has nothing to do with the subject but is a personal remark to the author, as where the references to him being an ex police officer.

You didn't say he couldn't express his view BUT you did probably make him feel uncomfortable enough to not even bother next time.

Knowing John via his previous posts,I doubt that Lordna!! :icon_lol:
He is no shrinking violet.. Neither is Graham..
Me personally,I have no problem with these passionately held views ..(or how they conflict)
I enjoy this kind of debate.. Keeps everything honest and veers us away from the national PC type of agenda that seems to be spreading like wildfire throughout the UK.. Even online these days.
Say what you think!!

[fred]

Graham... I think that you should take John off ignore as there is nothing wrong with alternative oppinions or how they clash.. The important thing is that opinions are aired.. Many without an opinion could well be swayed..On either side.
I think thats important.

[Dedworth]

Say what you think!!

String 'em up !

[fred]

String 'em up !


:icon_lol:

You would!!

[Dedworth]

:icon_lol:

You would!!

As you know Fred I firmly believe in the value of deterrent sentences :biggrin:

[fred]

As you know Fred I firmly believe in the value of deterrent sentences :biggrin:

To a degree,so do I..
But then my daughter is only 14 with NO chance of EVER visiting Ibiza with her friends..
Like I did!!

[lordna]

Most of his posts have been in the same vein recently...the big 'I know it all' because I used to be a policeman'.

Anyone not noticing that would have to be either blind or stupid.

That's why I have him on ignore and can only see his posts when they've been quoted by others.

I'm a a light-hearted cheerful person 99% of the time and I certainly don't consider myself special or in kind of clique on this board (I hate that kind of stuff anyway), but yes, some of us do have strong views and opinions. If other members feel they've been snubbed or insulted, then they can complain to the mods. We're all grownups, and certainly I'd expect ex-policemen ....as an example, to be made of pretty stern stuff, and to be able to cope with the literary hurly burly of an average forum.

All I was asking was for John not to come marching in with his 'innocent until proven guilty' proclamation like he was some judge with his little hammer.

Let's have a chat without trying to squash the views of others....however unpalatable they may seem.

There have been many times when I've been made to feel 'uncomfortable' too, but I'll be a man about it, even though that seems to be frowned upon in some quarters these days.

There are plenty of topics on the board for those of a more delicate constitution. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I suppose i should really expect a Yorkshireman to say it as it is!...and i would agree that 99% of the time you are light hearted and cheerful, i'm sure i speak for all of us who enjoy reading your posts, even if we don't always agree.

One of the reasons i choose to contribute to this forum IS really because you do get to see different point of views. I would hate to think anyone would be discouraged by expressing their views even if i or others disagree.

I don't think us southerners have "a more delicate constitution" or need to be selective about the topics we comment on....but maybe we dont express ourselves in quite the same way!

Enough said...you take criticism in the good spirit it was intended and responded positively as usual! I must admit i have not followed Johns posts in particular so cannot comment.

[gWaPito]

I say bring back Apo and Lastlid :icon_lol: Always good for a giggle :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[gWaPito]

I am surprised anyone even believes their story for a second = gullible or what :doh

Yes innocent until proven guilty but i am not going along with their story

Threats to the family like what ???

They were caught red handed and all these bola bola stories are just mitigating circumstances that might help them to get a lesser sentence

Totally agree LM and with Ded's take on it
Until you been a victim of drugs and experienced the heartache it causes best to keep your liberal views is check. Spare a thought for those who continue to suffer.

BTW For John to say that the users are at fault for creating the demand is a crazy notion. I suspect too much midday sun John..wear a cap

[joebloggs]

it doesn't look good for them :NoNo:


IS THIS THE MOMENT MICHAELA WAS CAUGHT COLLECTING COKE HAUL?

http://www.belfastdaily.co.uk/2013/08/19/is-this-the-moment-michaela-was-caught-collecting-coke-haul/

[joebloggs]

Totally agree LM and with Ded's take on it
Until you been a victim of drugs and experienced the heartache it causes best to keep your liberal views is check. Spare a thought for those who continue to suffer.



:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[fred]

I don't think us southerners have "a more delicate constitution" or need to be selective about the topics we comment on...


From my view it has nothing much to do with differing opinions between people from "north" or South".. It has more to do with a new constitution that has been introduced stealthily by new age politicians that will soon be passing laws that will remove our old rights of free speech..
By the time I`m dead,my kids will not know the difference!!
For me,that is a scary proposition.
I`m not a conspiracy theorist by any means but I can really see how things have changed from when I was a youngster.. and not for the good IMO.
It`s about time we all stand up and say what we really feel and think... Sod the consequences!!

[grahamw48]

Ok...I've taken my meds now. :Cuckoo:

[fred]

Totally agree LM and with Ded's take on it
Until you been a victim of drugs and experienced the heartache it causes best to keep your liberal views is check. Spare a thought for those who continue to suffer.



Ive seen loads of people taking drugs throughout the uk all during my life..
Do you really think by throwing a few young drug mules away in Peru it will (the problem) all eventually come to an end?
Its almost guaranteed that the flight that the girls were supposed to be on would have had 4 perhaps more mules aboard!!
The Cartels quite often dobb in one out of five mules to give a chance for the other 4 to get through..
These cartels and drug organisations can read immigration and the press like a book.
Cant you see that?

[lordna]

From my view it has nothing much to do with differing opinions between people from "north" or South"..

..............
It`s about time we all stand up and say what we really feel and think... Sod the consequences!!

Not "differing opinions" , i was trying to highlight the approach rather than what was said. I don't really think there is any difference between North and South but as Graham is a yorkshireman who are well known for "saying it as it is" and I am from the south I thought I would make light heart of it!

I dont mind people saying what they think....but not if its likely to cause personal offence but maybe thats just me.

[Dedworth]

I say bring back Apo and Lastlid :icon_lol: Always good for a giggle:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Now where did I put that sickbag ? :Erm:

[grahamw48]

You could always nip over to the 'other' forum...only about 6 people posting on there, including Apo', 90% of it lastlid though (JohnAsh), who made it quite clear I was not welcome. :cwm3:

[Dedworth]

90% of it lastlid though (JohnAsh),

Sounds like he's slacking

[Arthur Little]

They were caught red handed ...

... :iagree: ... there definitely SEEMS to be more to "the whole business" than meets the eye. :icon_rolleyes:

[Arthur Little]

... *Lastlid ...


Sounds like he's slacking

:nono-1-1: ... apparently ... like the 'Phoenix' :gost: ... *he's managed to rise from the "ashes"!!! :biggrin:

[fred]

:nono-1-1: ... apparently ... like the 'Phoenix' :gost: ... *he's managed to rise from the "ashes"!!! :biggrin:

:Help1:

[Arthur Little]

:Help1:

......... :yeahthat: reminds me ... :cwm25: ... wonder if lAshtlid continues to "beaver away" - desperately trying to get the last word in - over on the OTHER forum? Does ANYONE :cwm24: know?

[Ako Si Jamie]

I say bring back Apo and Lastlid :icon_lol: Always good for a giggle :xxgrinning--00xx3::icon_lol: I remember your spats with Aposhark. Quite amusing.

[Ako Si Jamie]

......... :yeahthat: reminds me ... :cwm25: ... wonder if lAshtlid continues to "beaver away" - desperately trying to get the last word in - over on the OTHER forum? Does ANYONE :cwm24: know? Not sure but they once thought Dedworth and Keith were the same person. :doh

[raynaputi]

Not sure but they once thought Dedworth and Keith were the same person. :doh

:omg:

:laugher::laugher::laugher:

:crazy:

[gWaPito]

Ive seen loads of people taking drugs throughout the uk all during my life..
Do you really think by throwing a few young drug mules away in Peru it will (the problem) all eventually come to an end?
Its almost guaranteed that the flight that the girls were supposed to be on would have had 4 perhaps more mules aboard!!
The Cartels quite often dobb in one out of five mules to give a chance for the other 4 to get through..
These cartels and drug organisations can read immigration and the press like a book.
Cant you see that?

I can see that :xxgrinning--00xx3: You still got to bang these (going by today's pictures) harlots up It wont stop it but, it will certainly make parents think twice about letting their darling Sons and Daughters swan off to a week of drug fuelled sex................I'll go instead

[gWaPito]

You could always nip over to the 'other' forum...only about 6 people posting on there, including Apo', 90% of it lastlid though (JohnAsh), who made it quite clear I was not welcome. :cwm3:

Im no filipino forum slag, thank you very much :biggrin:

[bigmarco]

......... :yeahthat: reminds me ... :cwm25: ... wonder if lAshtlid continues to "beaver away" - desperately trying to get the last word in - over on the OTHER forum? Does ANYONE :cwm24: know?

No change there Arthur.:biggrin:

[gWaPito]

No change there Arthur.:biggrin:

At least his wife's getting a break :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

Ive seen loads of people taking drugs throughout the uk all during my life..
Do you really think by throwing a few young drug mules away in Peru it will (the problem) all eventually come to an end?
Its almost guaranteed that the flight that the girls were supposed to be on would have had 4 perhaps more mules aboard!!
The Cartels quite often dobb in one out of five mules to give a chance for the other 4 to get through..
These cartels and drug organisations can read immigration and the press like a book.
Cant you see that?

i doubt there were any more mules on that flight unless they swallowed the stuff, the girls were caught by a sniffer dog.

[London_Manila]

Ive seen loads of people taking drugs throughout the uk all during my life..
Do you really think by throwing a few young drug mules away in Peru it will (the problem) all eventually come to an end?
Its almost guaranteed that the flight that the girls were supposed to be on would have had 4 perhaps more mules aboard!!
The Cartels quite often dobb in one out of five mules to give a chance for the other 4 to get through..
These cartels and drug organisations can read immigration and the press like a book.
Cant you see that?

The bottom line is these 2 agreed to bring the drugs back for money
There were no 14 gangsters with guns pointing at their heads
One of them was a regular drug taker in Ibiza
No sign of any of these gangsters when they were swanning around Lima
Cctv and telephone records will prove their downfall..........
The tide is already turning against them in the press

They were not forced to do anything

[Arthur Little]

I say bring back Apo and Lastlid :icon_lol:

:reaction: ... NOT one of your better :idea:s, my friend.


Always good for a giggle :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Perhaps ... except neither of those two knew when to bite their tongues!! :NoNo:

[Arthur Little]

:icon_lol: I remember your spats with Aposhark. Quite amusing.

Amusing it may've been ... but, as I've just said, Apo - like Lastlid - always seemed totally and *utterly (*pun intended) incapable of keeping his gob shut! :biggrin:

[Michael Parnham]

not many of us would even think of, never mind trying to smuggling drugs thou, that's one major mistake :NoNo:

I have never in my life ever known anyone who takes drugs, never seen any drugs and never been approached by anyone selling drugs! :cwm25:

[SimonH]

I have never in my life ever known anyone who takes drugs, never seen any drugs and never been approached by anyone selling drugs!:cwm25:

We can soon change that, what do you want :wink:

[joebloggs]

I have never in my life ever known anyone who takes drugs, never seen any drugs and never been approached by anyone selling drugs! :cwm25:

my point without access to drugs you don't have drug addicts, your lucky Michael,

my brothers friends from school, 3 others that were in the same class as him in his final year at school became drug addicts too, and I believe they are all dead now, that's at least 4 out of a class of 30 :NoNo:,

[Ako Si Jamie]

They may have to wait 3 years for a trial.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/michaella-mccollum-and-melissa-reid-expected-to-plead-not-guilty-in-peru-drug-smuggling-case-8775734.html

[Arthur Little]

They may have to wait 3 years for a trial.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/michaella-mccollum-and-melissa-reid-expected-to-plead-not-guilty-in-peru-drug-smuggling-case-8775734.html

Oh, Jeez! :yikes: ... here's me (who worked in a penal setting for all of 14 years) thinking "the wheels of British Justice" were grinding to a halt! :cwm24:

[gWaPito]

:reaction: ... NOT one of your better :idea:s, my friend.



Perhaps ... except neither of those two knew when to bite their tongues!! :NoNo:

I'm just typing rubbish Arthur :biggrin: If they hadn't of been binned when they were, others may have fallen by the wayside rising to their baiting.

[gWaPito]

Oh, Jeez! :yikes: ... here's me (who worked in a penal setting for all of 14 years) thinking "the wheels of British Justice" were grinding to a halt! :cwm24:

It makes my wait for justice slightly insignificant. The only difference being, they where knowingly hauling 11 kilos of death and misery.

[London_Manila]

One of them who was caught walking around Lima on cctv when she had already told the police that on that day they were being guarded by the gangsters now informs everyone thats not her on cctv :icon_lol:

[gWaPito]

I have never in my life ever known anyone who takes drugs, never seen any drugs and never been approached by anyone selling drugs! :cwm25:

I can say the same for myself and my peers. Not so for a few of my nieces and nephews and for that matter, my eldest son.
Our high when we were kids was getting ratfaced on cider. Quite tame, I know but, through that, one of my cousin's became an alcoholic.

[gWaPito]

One of them caught walking around Lima on cctv when she told everyone they were being guarded by the gangsters now informs everyone thats not her on cctv :icon_lol:

Clutching at straws. Something we'd all be doing right now..thankfully most of us wouldn't of got ourselves into that situation in the first place

[London_Manila]

I do have some sympathy for their plight now
Conditions will be grim and they are looking at a very long time in the MONKEY HOUSE
High profile cases normally brings many years in the Jail

[gWaPito]

I do have some sympathy for their plight now
Conditions will be grim and they are looking at a very long time in the MONKEY HOUSE
High profile cases normally brings many years in the Jail

''monkey house'' haha haven't heard that sayin for a while...Yes, they're getting their 15 minutes of fame now...at a cost

[joebloggs]

Earlier Connolly’s lawyer, Peter Madden, said he believed the women had been used as “decoys”.

He said they realised “as soon as they arrived at the airport” that the police were aware they were carrying something in their cases.

Mr Madden said: “When they arrived at the airport – they have told the police this – they knew that the police knew what was going on. So they were immediately arrested.

“They were duped. They were held at gunpoint and forced to do this possibly to let a bigger shipment through the airport.

"There is speculation they were used as decoys.”

He confirmed the girls knew they would be carrying drugs in their bags but had been told “with 100% certainty” they would not be caught.

He said he feared both would be jailed “whether guilty or innocent”.

Mr Madden said the pair were not entitled to bail and suggested they could remain in custody for a “long time”.

He said it meant if they were eventually acquitted they could have already served a lengthy sentence.

Despite the grim outlook, he said they were coping “fairly well” in “tough conditions” and were being treated properly.

He stressed they denied reports they already knew each other before the ordeal and that they were seen out shopping and enjoying themselves in Lima before the arrest.

He said: “They’re very concerned about their situation and are emphasising that they were under threat.

“While they weren’t actually under the physical control of the men involved, they were under the control through telephone exchange and also threats that people were watching them and would be watching them.”

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/peru-drugs-arrests-melissa-reid-2195313#ixzz2ca7pwNOE
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

maybe they stood out, 2 young white girls. i don't think they were arrested immediately, they were queuing and were caught by a sniffer dog.


as for being duped and forced and decoys, surely its better to use a mule that's freely doing it for money rather than try and force someone to do it, they might go to the police :cwm25: and in this case bring a lot of publicity to the airport, drug smugglers, police and the Peruvian gov. I'm sure that's the last thing the drug cartels want :NoNo:

he also says they knew they were carrying drugs, i read in the press previously they claimed they didn't know if it was money,guns or drugs :Erm:


also they were threatened by txt :biggrin: and not under physical threat of the gang.


He confirmed the girls knew they would be carrying drugs in their bags but had been told “with 100% certainty” they would not be caught. :biggrin:

[fred]

as for being duped and forced and decoys, surely its better to use a mule that's freely doing it for money rather than try and force someone to do it, they might go to the police :cwm25: and in this case bring a lot of publicity to the airport, drug smugglers, police and the Peruvian gov. I'm sure that's the last thing the drug cartels want :NoNo:

Its exactly what the airport wants!!
It has to show and clearly display every now and again that they are pro active against drug dealers blah blah..
That way there are no investigations held about how many they knowingly let through..
The cartels and corrupt airport staff will enact these sacrifices when they feel it necessary and have a good laugh at the British newspapers the next morning!!

[andy222]

Like I have said before you can only advise your kids. They have to go out in the big world one day. They will make their own minds up about things. Unfortunately for these 2 girls they have got to face the consequences. Yes I feel sorry for the parents but what can you do?. You cant lock your kids up for 24/7.

[joebloggs]

Its exactly what the airport wants!!
It has to show and clearly display every now and again that they are pro active against drug dealers blah blah..
That way there are no investigations held about how many they knowingly let through..
The cartels and corrupt airport staff will enact these sacrifices when they feel it necessary and have a good laugh at the British newspapers the next morning!!

i've read somewhere that 250 drug smugglers were arrested at that airport last year, so maybe the sniffer dogs are there all the time :cwm25:

[joebloggs]

Peru drugs: UK pair charged with drug offences

Two women from the UK arrested in Peru on suspicion of drug smuggling have been charged and face a maximum sentence of 15 years if convicted.

Michaella McCollum, of Dungannon in Northern Ireland, and Melissa Reid, of Lenzie near Glasgow, are accused of trying to smuggle cocaine with a street value of £1.5m out of the country.

Ms McCollum's lawyer Peter Madden said both women would plead not guilty.

It is likely the pair will be transferred to prison to await trial.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23776210

[Michael Parnham]

They looked terrified on lunchtime news today :Help1:

[Dedworth]

Well done Peru :appl:


Peru drugs: UK pair charged with drug offences

Two women from the UK arrested in Peru on suspicion of drug smuggling have been charged and face a maximum sentence of 15 years if convicted.

Michaella McCollum, of Dungannon in Northern Ireland, and Melissa Reid, of Lenzie near Glasgow, are accused of trying to smuggle cocaine with a street value of £1.5m out of the country.

Ms McCollum's lawyer Peter Madden said both women would plead not guilty.

It is likely the pair will be transferred to prison to await trial.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23776210

[Arthur Little]

You cant lock your kids up for 24/7.

Well, Andy ... :anerikke: ... the way things appear to be heading for the pair we're discussing here ... they're currently looking at the very real prospect of being locked up for 24 years - never mind 24/7!

[Arthur Little]

@ ... John Car

John ... according to Messrs Gilbert & Sullivan's comic operetta, 'Pirates of Penzance', "a policeman's lot is not an 'appy one". Here, then, is 'a little' :joke: in an attempt to restore your sense of humour and defuse any undue "heated tension" :cwm23: between you and a number of your fellow members here. :wink:

QUESTION

:cwm24: ... what d'you imagine :biggrin: colleagues of a former Spanish detective who's relegated to "pounding the beat" might call him?

ANSWER

Carlos! :icon_lol:

[gWaPito]

i've read somewhere that 250 drug smugglers were arrested at that airport last year, so maybe the sniffer dogs are there all the time :cwm25:

That's an awful lot of decoys Joe. Must of been an awful lot of smack getting through :NoNo:

I wonder if the dogs have been trained to let the majority of smugglers through unhindered

[Dedworth]

These slappers aren't posing for pics and looking smug now :biggrin:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/21/article-2397844-1B660A4C000005DC-935_634x555.jpg

[johncar54]

Some posters may find this, about libel, interesting:-

(NB Publishing includes the internet )

Quote:

Published defamation -- called libel -- for example a newspaper article or television broadcast. Pictures as well as words can be defamatory.

Anything that injures a person's reputation can be defamatory. If a comment brings a person into contempt, disrepute or ridicule, it is likely to be defamatory.

You tell your friends that the boss is unfair. That's slander of the boss.
You write a letter to the newspaper saying a politician is corrupt. That's libel of the politician, even if it's not published.
You say on television that a building was badly designed. That's libel due to the imputation that the architect is professionally incompetent, even if you didn't mention any names.
You sell a newspaper that contains defamatory material. That's spreading of a defamation.

[joebloggs]

http://ukcriminallawblog.com/2012/11/01/the-code-for-crown-prosecutors/

and

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/communications_sent_via_social_media/index.html

New Guidelines: 4 categories

The CPS has said that an initial assessment of the content of the communications should be made to distinguish between:

1. Communications which may constitute credible threats of violence to the person or damage to property.

2. Communications which specifically target an individual or individuals and which may constitute harassment or stalking within the meaning of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

3. Communications which may amount to a breach of a court order.

4. Communications which do not fall into any of the categories above and fall to be considered separately (see below): i.e. those which may be considered grossly offensive, indecent, obscene or false.

The guidance states that communications falling within paragraphs 1, 2 and 3 above should be prosecuted, providing they satisfy the two-stage test set out in the Code for Crown Prosecutors. However, the guidance suggests that it may not be in the public interest to prosecute cases which fall into paragraph 4.

In the document, the CPS have provided guidance on what is deemed to fall within paragraphs 1-4, above.

The need for caution

The document also expresses the need for caution in prosecuting these types of offences, stating that there is the potential for a “chilling effect” on free speech. It highlights the case of Paul Chambers, where the Lord Chief Justice stated:

“… a message which does not create fear or apprehension in those to whom it is communicated, or may reasonably be expected to see it, falls outside [section 127(i)(a)], for the simple reason that the message lacks menace.…Satirical, or iconoclastic, or rude comment, the expression of unpopular or unfashionable opinion about serious or trivial matters, banter or humour, even if distasteful to some or painful to those subjected to it should and no doubt will continue at their customary level, quite undiminished by [section 127 of the Communications Act 2003].“

It also highlights Art.10 of the European Convention on Human Rights:

“Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include the freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers …“

As well as the case of Sunday Times v UK (No 2) [1992] 14 EHRR 123:

“Freedom of expression constitutes one of the essential foundations of a democratic society … it is applicable not only to “information” or “ideas” that are favourably received or regarded as inoffensive or as a matter of indifference, but also as to those that offend, shock or disturb …“

And the case of DPP v Collins [2006] UKHL 40:

“There can be no yardstick of gross offensiveness otherwise than by the application of reasonably enlightened, but not perfectionist, contemporary standards to the particular message sent in its particular context. The test is whether a message is couched in terms liable to cause gross offence to those to whom it relates.“

The document also details the public interest test in deciding whether to prosecute. It confirms that a prosecution is unlikely to be both necessary and proportionate where:

1. The suspect has expressed genuine remorse;

2. Swift and effective action has been taken by the suspect and/or others for example, service providers, to remove the communication in question or otherwise block access to it;

3. The communication was not intended for a wide audience, nor was that the obvious consequence of sending the communication; particularly where the intended audience did not include the victim or target of the communication in question; or

4. The content of the communication did not obviously go beyond what could conceivably be tolerable or acceptable in an open and diverse society which upholds and respects freedom of expression.

It also touches upon the potential prosecutions of young people, and how prosecutions of such individuals will not usually be in the public interest.

http://ukcriminallawblog.com/2013/06/20/new-cps-guidelines-issued-on-social-media/

[Terpe]

The High Court has previously ruled that defamation on internet bulletin boards is akin to slander rather than libel.

Mr Justice Eady stated that posts on bulletin boards "are rather like contributions to a casual conversation (the analogy sometimes being drawn with people chatting in a bar) which people simply note before moving on; they are often uninhibited, casual and ill thought out...Those who participate know this and expect a certain amount of repartee or 'give and take'."
As such "When considered in the context of defamation law, therefore, communications of this kind are much more akin to slanders (this cause of action being nowadays relatively rare) than to the usual, more permanent kind of communications found in libel actions...People do not often take a 'thread' and go through it as a whole like a newspaper article. They tend to read the remarks, make their own contributions if they feel inclined, and think no more about it."

Mr Justice Eady said that the comments were likely to be considered as 'fair comment' i.e. they cannot be considered as defamatory if they are posted without malice and represent the posters honest views: "I referred to common themes in the postings, such as that of 'bullying' other users and making 'threatening demands' for money. That is classic fair comment territory and, in the light of the modern authorities, it is inconceivable that a jury would find any of those who expressed such a view 'malicious' let alone all of them...Opinions may be expressed in exaggerated and strident terms; the only requirement is that they be honestly held. It is fanciful to suppose that any of these people did not believe what they were saying. Even if they reached their conclusions in haste, or on incomplete information, or irrationally, the defence would still avail them."

Defamation has always been notoriously difficult to prove in court.
Courts generally agree that an opinion, no matter how malicious, is not the same as a stated fact.

[grahamw48]

Thanks for clearing that up. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Now, where were we ? :biggrin:

[Arthur Little]

Now, where were we ? :biggrin:

Dunno, Graham ... putting the boxing gloves :xxsport-smiley-002: away, perhaps. :laugher:

[London_Manila]

These slappers aren't posing for pics and looking smug now :biggrin:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/21/article-2397844-1B660A4C000005DC-935_634x555.jpg

That cake eating session seems a long time ago now :wink:

The penny has finally dropped for these 2 !

[joebloggs]

http://images.dailyexpress.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/peru-drugs-423636.jpg

the problem is they said they were told it was 100% sure that they wouldn't get caught.
but maybe they had a backup plan if they did :Erm:


Yesterday, they faced further questions about their version of events when photographs emerged of them sipping beer and posing on a hotel balcony in Peru.

They claimed they were told to take photos of themselves at tourist spots to back up the cover story they would use at customs.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/423636/British-drug-mule-girls-charged-after-arriving-at-court-in-handcuffs

were they having a good time or did they fear for their lives :cwm25:

[fred]

The two women had been working on the Spanish island of Ibiza, where they say they were snared by a drug cartel, robbed of their passports and phones and followed as they travelled on separate flights from Spain to Peru.

The 31-year-old, who lived on the island with Ms McCollum Connolly, told the Daily Mirror that traffickers would loiter near bars and nightclubs and get teenagers hooked on drugs before forcing them to become dealers and drug mules after they racked up large debts.

Mr Garcia, who works in Amsterdam Bar in San Antonio, told the newspaper: "I've seen British guys come into the bar to try and recruit girls. They get them hooked on coke, on all sorts of things, and then make them do terrible things.

"They become low-level dealers at first. The gangs use the girls who work in clubs and bars to sell drugs to punters. That's how it starts. In return they get money and drugs on credit."

Colonel Tito Perez Arrascue, of the National Police of Peru said the woman were not expected to be formally charged until Monday or Tuesday.

He said: "We have to take care. It's not a simple process, we have to investigate the case piece by piece. They will stay here for 15 days while we investigate."

Ms Reid and Ms McCollum Connolly could be held pre-charge for up to 30 days and then could spend up to three years in prison before a trial.

If convicted, they could face lengthy sentences in an overcrowded Peruvian prison where they will have to pay for everything, including food and bedding.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/422230/I-wish-I-d-killed-myself-British-girl-s-fear-as-she-s-held-on-1-5m-Peru-cocaine-smuggle

[Ako Si Jamie]

These slappers aren't posing for pics and looking smug now :biggrin:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/21/article-2397844-1B660A4C000005DC-935_634x555.jpgAt least they've got a photo pictured next to Ricky Gervais. :icon_lol:

[joebloggs]

Accused drug girl in 'taped' drug call

COPS in Peru have a recording of a phone call telling an Irish girl arrested over a €1.7million cocaine haul how to smuggle drugs, it emerged yesterday.

Prosecutors have said the call will form part of the case against accused 20-year-olds Michaella McCollum Connolly and Melissa Reid.

The recording is allegedly of Michaella, from Dungannon, Northern Ireland, being told exactly what to do.

read more here .. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/5091718/Accused-drug-girl-in-taped-drug-call.html

[London_Manila]

The father who went over there thinks that they should plead guilty
He thinks their defense case is slim
Plead guilty and try plea bargaining might be a better way forward for them

[joebloggs]

WORLD EXCLUSIVE Our real story, by Ibiza drug mules: Incredible account girls gave to police published IN FULL ... so judge for yourself whether they were terrified stooges or calculated criminals

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2401511/Account-Ibiza-drug-mules-given-police-published-IN-FULL-time.html#ixzz2d5L57Q00
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Ako Si Jamie]

http://i.imgur.com/2jhDMDW.jpg

[gWaPito]

Nice one Jamie:xxgrinning--00xx3:
Those girls look like they could be kid sisters of the stricken 2

[gWaPito]

WORLD EXCLUSIVE Our real story, by Ibiza drug mules: Incredible account girls gave to police published IN FULL ... so judge for yourself whether they were terrified stooges or calculated criminals

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2401511/Account-Ibiza-drug-mules-given-police-published-IN-FULL-time.html#ixzz2d5L57Q00
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Im surprised The Mail gave it the time of day...must of been short of stories :NoNo:
They've had their 15 minutes..i say leave them to it :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Michael Parnham]

http://i.imgur.com/2jhDMDW.jpg

Brilliant Jamie! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[johncar54]

Deleted because of insults

[SimonH]

So in summary, someone being charged with an alleged crime that happened many years ago has exactly what to do with this thread :Erm:

I'm not the judge and certainly not the jury in this case, but as with other people who have contributed, I am expressing an opinion based on the facts we have been given. Hopefully that isn't against the law now.

[gWaPito]

So in summary, someone being charged with an alleged crime that happened many years ago has exactly what to do with this thread :Erm:

I'm not the judge and certainly not the jury in this case, but as with other people who have contributed, I am expressing an opinion based on the facts we have been given. Hopefully that isn't against the law now.

I agree Simon...I can't help thinking all that white powder found in their luggage isn't going to help them one iota:NoNo:

Hardly a comparision to the ''Kevin Webster'' case. :NoNo:

[Terpe]

I think that many posters probably thought that in the 'Kevin Webster' case there would be a conviction; he was acquited.

As I said in posts here. "Arrest does not mean guilty."

He had the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty.

The women in Peru deserve the same.

The women in Peru have admitted having drugs in their possesion. They are claiming mitigating circumstances.

[johncar54]

Deleted because of insults

[bigmarco]

Calm down John we're just a bunch of people with a lifetimes experience expressing our views on a couple of slappers who got caught with suitcases filled with drugs in a country on the other side of the world.
You obviously come with a wealth of experience representing a profession that managed to secure convictions against
The Birmingham 6, The Guilford 4, The McGuire 7, The Bridgwater4, The Cardiff 3, Stefan Kizko, Judith Ward, The M25 3, Barry George, The Cardiff newsagent 3, Sally Clark and many many more. We're not harming anybody by expressing our views and let's be grateful that Kevin Webster/Michael Le Vell wasn't investigated by the infamous West Midlands Serious Crimes Squad because he'd probably be just starting a 25 stretch :wink:

[gWaPito]

Calm down John we're just a bunch of people with a lifetimes experience expressing our views on a couple of slappers who got caught with suitcases filled with drugs in a country on the other side of the world.
You obviously come with a wealth of experience representing a profession that managed to secure convictions against
The Birmingham 6, The Guilford 4, The McGuire 7, The Bridgwater4, The Cardiff 3, Stefan Kizko, Judith Ward, The M25 3, Barry George, The Cardiff newsagent 3, Sally Clark and many many more. We're not harming anybody by expressing our views and let's be grateful that Kevin Webster/Michael Le Vell wasn't investigated by the infamous West Midlands Serious Crimes Squad because he'd probably be just starting a 25 stretch :wink:

Love it :icon_lol::xxgrinning--00xx3:

BTW...I sent you a rep for that..brilliant!

Im not happy about the new payment system here..before you cld just enter your any old card number and pay what you like..now we got to use paypal...not happy with that

Just a thought :)

[johncar54]

Bigmarco you seem have to missed my post where I said,

If it was that cut and dried everyone charged with an offence would be found guilty. I don’t have that sort of confidence in the abilities of all police officers !

I am the one (maybe the only one) who is defending the right of people that they should be considered innocent until proven guilty. If some here had their way, all of those who you quote would have been convicted (even without the juries who decided to find them guilty) without any right to appeal.

[SimonH]

Bigmarco you seem have to missed my post where I said,

If it was that cut and dried everyone charged with an offence would be found guilty. I don’t have that sort of confidence in the abilities of all police officers !

I am the one (maybe the only one) who is defending the right of people that they should be considered innocent until proven guilty. If some here had their way, all of those who you quote would have been convicted (even without the juries who decided to find them guilty) without any right to appeal.


Johncar54 it seems that you have missed everyone else's point with your:-

1. Have you any idea who I was
2. I used to do this for a living
3. I know what I'm talking about
4. Don't you dare express an opinion which differs from mine
5. Did I mention I was in the force?

attitude

We, as a public forum quite often discuss what's happening in the world, but when it comes to anything legal YOU are the expert and portray your opinions in a belittling and arrogant manner. In this case you bring to your defence something totally irrelevant to the subject to try and reinforce your statement.
Until we have all the facts all we can base our opinion on is what has been reported in the press, and no-one has said they're guilty, but that's what a lot of people think (again given the information we have been given).
I for one will be happy to say I was wrong in my opinion if they are proven innocent, but I have to wonder if you will be as happy to say you were wrong if they are proven guilty :Erm:
Please don't stoop so low as to send me a personal message as you have in the past if you disagree with me, just say what you want to so everyone can read it.

[grahamw48]

http://imageshack.us/a/img510/8703/whistle.gif

.
http://imageshack.us/a/img178/18/getmecoat8692890.gif

[gWaPito]

http://imageshack.us/a/img510/8703/whistle.gif

.
http://imageshack.us/a/img178/18/getmecoat8692890.gif

:laugher::bigcry:

[London_Manila]

Bigmarco you seem have to missed my post where I said,

If it was that cut and dried everyone charged with an offence would be found guilty. I don’t have that sort of confidence in the abilities of all police officers !

I am the one (maybe the only one) who is defending the right of people that they should be considered innocent until proven guilty. If some here had their way, all of those who you quote would have been convicted (even without the juries who decided to find them guilty) without any right to appeal.

I think most of us on here are well aware of the facts of this case and we are free to draw our own conclusions

A suitcase full of cocaine does not normally baffle many people

Even the keystone cops could sort this one out !

[johncar54]

I have deleted my posts because of insults

[joebloggs]

concerning Le Vell, unless I'm wrong it came down to what he and the girl said happened, i don't think there was any actual Physical evidence. so it came down to the jury who to believe, thou the CPs thought there was enough evidence to bring the case to court.

these girls were caught with drugs, and if i remember correctly they knew they were carrying drugs.

[gWaPito]

Who needs Corrie when we got a cast like this :laugher:

[johncar54]

Here we go again, I expect I will need to delete this post too, but anyway …..

Joe ........ if I remember correctly they knew they were carrying drugs.

That would not mean in UK law that they were guilty. (I have no expertise in Peruvian law but suspect it would be more or less similar). To establish guilt it would be necessary to prove other ingredients of the law which they had contravened. Whether the facts (including all the necessary ingredients required to prove a case) amount to a breach of the law is a matter for legally trained people to argue in front of a judge.


As an extreme example. A police officer confiscates drugs. He then has them in his possession, he of course knows he has them, but he is clearly not guilty of any offence, i.e. other ingredients need to be present too. However, the same officer, with the same drugs, in different circumstances, might be guilty of an offence.

[London_Manila]

away with the fairies / cloud cuckoo land

I am all for defending the innocent but dont you think you are stretching it a bit far on this one

Leaving the country with a suitcase full of cocaine probably contravened some law :wink:

[joebloggs]

Peru drug arrests: British woman Melissa Reid 'to plead guilty'

Reid, who was arrested last month with Michaella McCollum Connolly, hopes plea will lead to shorter jail term, reports say

read more here .. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/15/peru-drug-melissa-reid-plead-guilty

[grahamw48]

They are a pair of silly young girls who have a lot to learn.

I hope they do get shorter sentences, but more importantly that the people who got them into this are caught and severely punished.

[bigmarco]

Fortunately common sense now seems to have kicked in.

[London_Manila]

Plea bargaining was all they had left and it was only a matter of time before they embarked on this route

[joebloggs]

another one caught a few days ago :doh


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1OOJpDxxm4

[johncar54]

They are of course between a rock and a hard place. If they pursue their claim of not being guilty and get convicted they will get a substantially longer sentence than if they plead guilty.

That is not Justice; but faced with a similar situation I guess most of us would take the plea route no matter how innocent we were, especially in a country where we might suspect we would not get a fair trial.

Unfortunately some will use the fact that they were in effect forced to plead guilty, to justify their condemnation of the women.


As for jumping to conclusions about a person’s guilt on the ‘evidence’ of newspaper stores;

I see Christopher Jefferies, whom I have no doubt many condemned as obviously guilty at the time, has just got an apology .

Just shows how in hindsight the facts can be so different for instant gut feelings, which many freely express. Unfortunately, it often takes the passage of time to establish fact from fiction (and prejudice).

Guardian

Christopher Jefferies hails 'public vindication' after police express regret for distress caused by arrest as suspect in case

Christopher Jefferies won damages from eight newspapers after his arrest following Joanna Yeates's murder in December 2010.

The landlord of murdered landscape architect Joanna Yeates has received a letter from police expressing "regret" for the first time at the way he was treated after being arrested over her killing.

[stevewool]

anyone carrying drugs should know what to expect, if it was me carrying these and they told me they would kill my family i would make myself known to the police or who ever else was at that airport telling them what has happened, whats the saying do the crime do the time, just my thoughts

[johncar54]

if it was me carrying these and they told me they would kill my family i would make myself known to the police

Steve, I would too, but that's a subjective judgement.

Subjective information or writing is based on personal opinions, interpretations, points of view, emotions and judgment. It is often considered ill-suited for scenarios like news reporting or decision making in business or politics.

Objective information or analysis is fact-based, measurable and observable.

[Dedworth]

As I said before shame it wasn't Malaysia or Singapore - untold taxpayers money will be wasted on consular visits and advice for this pair of chancers

[SimonH]

They are of course between a rock and a hard place. If they pursue their claim of not being guilty and get convicted they will get a substantially longer sentence than if they plead guilty.

That is not Justice; but faced with a similar situation I guess most of us would take the plea route no matter how innocent we were, especially in a country where we might suspect we would not get a fair trial.

Unfortunately some will use the fact that they were in effected forced to plead guilty, to justify their condemnation of the women.









Subjective information or writing is based on personal opinions, interpretations, points of view, emotions and judgment. It is often considered ill-suited for scenarios like news reporting or decision making in business or politics.

Objective information or analysis is fact-based, measurable and observable.


So, is your comment about the fact that they are being forced into pleading guilty subjective or objective :Erm:

[bigmarco]

They are of course between a rock and a hard place. If they pursue their claim of not being guilty and get convicted they will get a substantially longer sentence than if they plead guilty.

That is not Justice; but faced with a similar situation I guess most of us would take the plea route no matter how innocent we were, especially in a country where we might suspect we would not get a fair trial.

Unfortunately some will use the fact that they were in effect forced to plead guilty, to justify their condemnation of the women.


As for jumping to conclusions about a person’s guilt on the ‘evidence’ of newspaper stores;

I see Christopher Jefferies, whom I have no doubt many condemned as obviously guilty at the time, has just got an apology .

Just shows how in hindsight the facts can be so different for instant gut feelings, which many freely express. Unfortunately, it often takes the passage of time to establish fact from fiction (and prejudice).

Guardian

Christopher Jefferies hails 'public vindication' after police express regret for distress caused by arrest as suspect in case

Christopher Jefferies won damages from eight newspapers after his arrest following Joanna Yeates's murder in December 2010.

The landlord of murdered landscape architect Joanna Yeates has received a letter from police expressing "regret" for the first time at the way he was treated after being arrested over her killing.



I don't see it as between a rock and a hard place John. I view it more as the "Smoking Gun". The girls have obviously had time to reflect and had their options laid out in black and white by the lawyers. Common sense is kicking in.

As for Christopher Jeffries he was treated appallingly by the press at the time of his wrongful arrest by the police. I believe some newspapers were convicted of contempt of court over this and Christopher Jeffries has himself received pay outs estimated and somewhere between £500,000 and £1million from 8 newspapers which has enabled him to retire early and very comfortably.
One of the main issues in this case for me is perhaps his name should have remained secret until such time as any charges were forthcoming.

[grahamw48]

I agree (no naming). On the radio this morning the chief of police stated that it might prevent other victims from coming forward if suspects weren't named.

Rubbish.

When the case goes to court the REAL person actually CHARGED will of course be named, so plenty of opportunity then for other interested parties to make themselves known.

[johncar54]

Bigmarco:- ................................ wrongful arrest by the police.

I have searched on the internet. I cannot find any reference to the police paying compensation. Newspapers (who like a lot of other people) said he was guilty, have paid compensation for their libels.

Quote - http://charonqc.wordpress.com/2012/11/30/guest-post-was-christopher-jeffries-wrongfully-arrested/

…………………………. I expect that the police have denied liability and argued that the arresting officer had a reasonable suspicion to justify the arrest ‘to allow the prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the conduct of the person in question’ (s.24(5)(e) Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984),


SimonH So, is your comment about the fact that they are being forced into pleading guilty subjective or objective

It's probably objective
"Objective information or analysis is fact-based, measurable and observable."

Facts they were arrested, they did claim duress, and from what we know the standard of Justice exercised in some countries is somewhat less than most Brits would expect. But, I am prepared that some may say it’s Subjective too.

[gWaPito]

I wonder what makes a few folks here think British justice is so great :NoNo:

In my limited experience on the receiving end of British injustice I can tell you it stinks.

Nothing to do with the police. .They are servants of the Crown up holding the law. .basically they are surfs

It's the law makers who have much to answer for.

[SimonH]

Please show me just one link that says they were FORCED into a guilty plea to back up your objective point of view.

[johncar54]

Simon this seems to developing into much more than the post would appear to intend,
but:- As I said
". If they pursue their claim of not being guilty and get convicted they will get a substantially longer sentence than if they plead guilty.

That is not Justice; but faced with a similar situation I guess most of us would take the plea route no matter how innocent we were, especially in a country where we might suspect we would not get a fair trial.

So 'forced' by the circumstances. I have no doubt you will understand what I mean by that.

Regards John

[bigmarco]

Bigmarco:- ................................ wrongful arrest by the police.

I have searched on the internet. I cannot find any reference to the police paying compensation. Newspapers (who like a lot of other people) said he was guilty, have paid compensation for their libels.

Quote - http://charonqc.wordpress.com/2012/11/30/guest-post-was-christopher-jeffries-wrongfully-arrested/

…………………………. I expect that the police have denied liability and argued that the arresting officer had a reasonable suspicion to justify the arrest ‘to allow the prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the conduct of the person in question’ (s.24(5)(e) Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984),


SimonH So, is your comment about the fact that they are being forced into pleading guilty subjective or objective

It's probably objective
"Objective information or analysis is fact-based, measurable and observable."

Facts they were arrested, they did claim duress, and from what we know the standard of Justice exercised in some countries is somewhat less than most Brits would expect. But, I am prepared that some may say it’s Subjective too.

Pardon me John but I thought when the Police arrested somebody on suspicion of murder who they subsequently set free, then the term wrongful arrest is appropriate.:Erm:
As regards damages I don't believe the Police actually libelled him so that's why the media settled their claims quickly.
However the letter from the Chief Constable is effectively an admission of some wrong doing and the sum of money they paid him for damage to his property has satisfied him.

[Arthur Little]

If they pursue their claim of not being guilty and get convicted they will get a substantially longer sentence than if they plead guilty.

That is not Justice

That's true :iagree: ... it's NOT justice. :nono-1-1: ... so why IS it that, in the event of conviction, an accused person's likely to receive a lighter sentence if he/she pled guilty? What's "fair" about that?

:crazy: ... doesn't make sense; ... :anerikke: ... surely the length of sentence ought to be determined in accordance with the magnitude of the offence.

[johncar54]

Pardon me John but I thought when the Police arrested somebody on suspicion of murder who they subsequently set free, then the term wrongful arrest is appropriate.:Erm:
As regards damages I don't believe the Police actually libelled him so that's why the media settled their claims quickly.
However the letter from the Chief Constable is effectively an admission of some wrong doing and the sum of money they paid him for damage to his property has satisfied him.

As quoted from the internet the police have lawful power to arrest if they suspect, with reasonable cause etc. That happens all the time. That is not wrongful.

If the police cause any damage to property during a search, they will normally pay for the repairs (at least in the London Met Police Area that's what always happened).

The letter appears to have said, "............Police have insisted they were right to arrest the landlord of the murdered landscape architect Joanna Yeates over her death but have apologised for not making it clear sooner that he was innocent."

[Arthur Little]

That's true :iagree: ... it's NOT justice. :nono-1-1: ... so why IS it that, in the event of conviction, an accused person's likely to receive a lighter sentence if he/she pled guilty? What's "fair" about that?

:crazy: ... doesn't make sense; ... :anerikke: ... surely the length of sentence ought to be determined in accordance with the magnitude of the offence.


By the same token ... if they're as :innocent1: as they claim, then, of course, there should be no need for these two lassies to plead guilty. :NoNo:

[Ako Si Jamie]

another one caught a few days ago :doh


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1OOJpDxxm4
A 'heavily pregnant' foreigner flying out of Colombia must have aroused suspicion straight away. :doh

[London_Manila]

They are of course between a rock and a hard place. If they pursue their claim of not being guilty and get convicted they will get a substantially longer sentence than if they plead guilty.

That is not Justice; but faced with a similar situation I guess most of us would take the plea route no matter how innocent we were, especially in a country where we might suspect we would not get a fair trial.

Unfortunately some will use the fact that they were in effect forced to plead guilty, to justify their condemnation of the women.


As for jumping to conclusions about a person’s guilt on the ‘evidence’ of newspaper stores;

I see Christopher Jefferies, whom I have no doubt many condemned as obviously guilty at the time, has just got an apology .

Just shows how in hindsight the facts can be so different for instant gut feelings, which many freely express. Unfortunately, it often takes the passage of time to establish fact from fiction (and prejudice).

Guardian

Christopher Jefferies hails 'public vindication' after police express regret for distress caused by arrest as suspect in case

Christopher Jefferies won damages from eight newspapers after his arrest following Joanna Yeates's murder in December 2010.

The landlord of murdered landscape architect Joanna Yeates has received a letter from police expressing "regret" for the first time at the way he was treated after being arrested over her killing.



Christopher Jefferies had not checked in a suitcase full of cocaine
Blame the British gutter press for his treatment which was disgusting

How could these girls plead not guilty anyway and on what grounds ?

[gWaPito]

As quoted from the internet the police have lawful power to arrest if they suspect, with reasonable cause etc. That happens all the time. That is not wrongful.

If the police cause any damage to property during a search, they will normally pay for the repairs (at least in the London Met Police Area that's what always happened).

The letter appears to have said, "............Police have insisted they were right to arrest the landlord of the murdered landscape architect Joanna Yeates over her death but have apologised for not making it clear sooner that he was innocent."

THe filth make it up as they go along!!!!:cwm23:

[SimonH]

This thread seems to have gone way off course. Analogies are great when they are exactly that but in this case the only comparison that Michael De whatshisname or Christopher Jefferies have with the two stupid girls is they were all arrested.
If memory serves me correctly Christopher Jefferies was arrested on suspicion of murder, but the press stated that he had been charged with murder, hence the successful libel claim. Now if he had been caught with a murder weapon in his possession (i.e. red, no in this case, white handed), the comparison to the two stupid girls may be relevant, but as it is, it's about as relevant as the Kevin Webster case or me having to go on a speed awareness course last month.

[stevewool]

usually when a thread goes off course its because the people get a little excited and wants to tell their other exploits or someone always wants to have the last word and always wants to get that point across, me , well i just get bored and have to move on :yawn:

[jake]

usually when a thread goes off course its because the people get a little excited and wants to tell their other exploits or someone always wants to have the last word and always wants to get that point across, me , well i just get bored and have to move on :yawn:

:icon_lol::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[raynaputi]

usually when a thread goes off course its because the people get a little excited and wants to tell their other exploits or someone always wants to have the last word and always wants to get that point across, me , well i just get bored and have to move on :yawn:

:icon_lol::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

I'm usually too shy. If there's 3 dots in the 'comment', it's from me. :biggrin:

[gWaPito]

I'm usually too shy. If there's 3 dots in the 'comment', it's from me. :biggrin:

I was actually enjoying this. ..on or off topic. ...makes a change to hear others thoughts and opinions. .Simon John LM. .value for money u guys :-)

[stevewool]

thanks jake and rayna for the reps :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Ako Si Jamie]

Just think it was a case of a couple of naive girls who knew exactly what they were doing. After getting caught, out came the butter wouldn't melt persona coupled with a cock & bull story thinking the authorities would fall for it.

[gWaPito]

Just think it was a case of a couple of naive girls who knew exactly what they were doing. After getting caught, out came the butter wouldn't melt persona coupled with a cock & bull story thinking the authorities would fall for it.

The girls should of got a job on tills at Tesco instead of taking a drug and sex crazed jolly in Spain.
What sort of parents let their kids do that? They have to accept responsibility as well. You'd of thought they would of at least checked out their accommodation. ..I got kids similar ages, I would like to think I wld done something to put them off going. ..This wasn't a holiday but a working summer season in the bars. ..what did the parents expect. ..mischief was definitely on the agenda :NoNo:

Btw. ..just tried to give you rep Jamie. .I need to share it around. ..you defo on my rep list :)

[grahamw48]

I agree Mark....the worst nightmare for most responsible parents.

We all know what goes on in such places. :NoNo:

[Ako Si Jamie]

The girls should of got a job on tills at Tesco instead of taking a drug and sex crazed jolly in Spain.
What sort of parents let their kids do that? They have to accept responsibility as well. You'd of thought they would of at least checked out their accommodation. ..I got kids similar ages, I would like to think I wld done something to put them off going. ..This wasn't a holiday but a working summer season in the bars. ..what did the parents expect. ..mischief was definitely on the agenda :NoNo:

Btw. ..just tried to give you rep Jamie. .I need to share it around. ..you defo on my rep list :)
Not much the parents can do to be fair seeing these girls are both grown adults in the eyes of the law. You could be the best parent in the world but it won't automatically make your kid into an angel.

[Michael Parnham]

Not much the parents can do to be fair seeing these girls are both grown adults in the eyes of the law. You could be the best parent in the world but it won't automatically make your kid into an angel.

That's true Jamie! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

Michael De whatshisname ...

... Michael Le Vell, :icon_lol: Simon.

[gWaPito]

Not much the parents can do to be fair seeing these girls are both grown adults in the eyes of the law. You could be the best parent in the world but it won't automatically make your kid into an angel.

You gotta point their Jamie :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Like Michael before, I agree.

[grahamw48]

Not much the parents can do to be fair seeing these girls are both grown adults in the eyes of the law. You could be the best parent in the world but it won't automatically make your kid into an angel.

True, but it doesn't stop you from giving them some guidance...whatever their age.

I also think that if you bring them up to understand how to behave with some self-respect, they're less likely to make 'unwise' choices later in life. :smile:

[Ako Si Jamie]

True, but it doesn't stop you from giving them some guidance...whatever their age.

I also think that if you bring them up to understand how to behave with some self-respect, they're less likely to make 'unwise' choices later in life. :smile:Agreed, although they don't always listen.

[gWaPito]

True, but it doesn't stop you from giving them some guidance...whatever their age.

I also think that if you bring them up to understand how to behave with some self-respect, they're less likely to make 'unwise' choices later in life. :smile:

I'm trying not to be contrary here. ..Graham has a point. ..I thought I was A good Dad first time around in the 80s. ..wrong! ...good provider. .poor Dad. ..I wasn't there!...had my situation hadn't been forcibly changed now, history wld of repeated itself. ..nothing beats being an hands on Dad.

[grahamw48]

Agreed, although they don't always listen.

I think you'd be surprised Jamie.

You THINK they're maybe not listening, but actually they are...if what you're saying makes sense to them....even though they may turn their noses up at the time. :wink:

[Arthur Little]

I'm trying not to be contrary here. ..Graham has a point. ..I thought I was A good Dad first time around in the 80s. ..wrong! ...good provider. .poor Dad. .. I wasn't there!

Know exactly what you're saying here, Mark ... and can readily relate to it, I'm afraid! Wish I'd spent more time with my two ... instead of the long hours I put in at work (without any thanks for it, I might add!) :doh

But, hey ho ... :anerikke: ... it's very easy to be wise after the event.

Fortunately, both of them turned out responsible adults. :wink:

[joebloggs]

Peru drug charge women 'are drop in the ocean'

As two young UK women prepare to appear before a Peruvian judge on drug-smuggling charges, the country's former anti-drugs chief tells the BBC their arrests are just a "drop in the ocean".

Amid reports that one or both of the women - Michaella McCollum and Melissa Reid - are set to admit trying to smuggle the drugs found in their luggage, the BBC has been told that for every person successfully stopped carrying narcotics at Lima's international airport, many more get through undetected.

read more here .. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24217585

[joebloggs]

Peru drugs: Michaella McCollum and Melissa Reid admit charge

Two women from the UK have pleaded guilty to attempting to smuggle 11kg (24lbs) of cocaine out of Peru.

Michaella McCollum, of Dungannon, Co Tyrone, and Melissa Reid, of Lenzie, near Glasgow, appeared before a judge at a closed hearing in Lima.

The women - both aged 20 - were caught with the drugs - said to be worth £1.5m - at Lima airport, and had said they were forced into carrying the drugs.

It is understood the pleas were made in exchange for a shorter sentence.

A spokesman for the Peruvian court confirmed they had admitted the offences.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24228723

[Dedworth]

Here we go - after all the hullabaloo and lies the 2 slappers plead guilty as charged

[London_Manila]

The amazing part about this case is the fact that some people actually believed their bola bola story :doh

Gullible and lacking any common sense diba :NoNo:

[bigmarco]

I think if as the report suggests they end up doing 6yrs and 8 months mostly in a British Jail they can consider themselves very fortunate.

[gWaPito]

I think if as the report suggests they end up doing 6yrs and 8 months mostly in a British Jail they can consider themselves very fortunate.

The word has it, they could be out in 4yrs :NoNo:

Had these 2 pretties been a couple of ugly blokes, they would of had the book thrown at them.

Looks like when these slappers come out they'll be made for life.

Their lifetime criminal records won't affect their earning capabilities. :NoNo:

[Arthur Little]

Their lifetime criminal records won't affect their earning capabilities. :NoNo:

Probably NOT ... :anerikke: ... it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they join those two grinning :biggrin: Geordies, Ant & Dec on their inane Aussie Jungle show, 'Im A Celebrity, Get Me out of Here!'.

[Arthur Little]

Probably NOT ... :anerikke: ... it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they join those two *grinning :biggrin: Geordies, Ant & Dec on their inane Aussie Jungle show, 'Im A Celebrity, Get Me out of Here!'.

......................... *:yeahthat:! Omg ... I'm beginning to think like Dedworth!

[gWaPito]

......................... *:yeahthat:! Omg ... I'm beginning to think like Dedworth!

Good news! The court is having none of it. .They want them to carry the can and take full responsibility for their actions. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[gWaPito]

Prosecutors have rejected the guilty pleas of two women caught trying to smuggle 11kg of cocaine out of Peru in their luggage.

Michaella McCollum, 20, from County Tyrone, Northern Ireland, and Melissa Reid, 20, from Glasgow, pleaded guilty on Tuesday behind closed doors when they appeared before a judge in Callao, near the capital Lima.

Prosecutors have asked for more information before accepting their admissions of guilt, which the women hope will reduce their sentences from a minimum eight years down to six years and eight months without the chance of parole.

[fred]

What a victory!!
Any news on how many of the syndicate that supplied them have been arrested?

[gWaPito]

What a victory!!
Any news on how many of the syndicate that supplied them have been arrested?

I don't think for one moment the welfare of those girls and their familes would be best served if they were to start spilling their guts out of whom and the whereabouts of that syndicate :NoNo:

They'd be better off keeping stum and doing their well earned porridge.

[fred]

I don't think for one moment the welfare of those girls and their familes would be best served if they were to start spilling their guts out of whom and the whereabouts of that syndicate :NoNo:

They'd be better off keeping stum and doing their well earned porridge.

If they could help Police with their inquiries and that leads to the arrest of the suppliers then they should be allowed to finish their sentences safely in the UK..
This will not happen of course as the local police have already been paid handsomely!
Nice work if you can get it!

[SimonH]

......................... *:yeahthat:! Omg ... I'm beginning to think like Dedworth!

:Erm: Nothing wrong with that.

Start worrying when you start thinking like me though :omg:

[johncar54]

Prosecutors have rejected the guilty pleas of two women caught trying to smuggle 11kg of cocaine out of Peru in their luggage.

Prosecutors have asked for more information before accepting their admissions of guilt,.

I do not know how the legal process works in Peru, but if that happened in UK it would be an indication that the prosecution, and or the judge, were doubtful that they were in fact guilty.

In UK if a person pleads guilty but in their mitigation they say anything which amounts to a doubt that they are are in fact guilty, for example if they said they were forced to commit the crime, their plea would be changed to Not Guilty.


I am not saying what the situation is in Peru as I am not in possession of the full facts, just those 'bits and pieces' I have read in the newspapers, (newspapers who are trying to sell more newspapers!)

[SimonH]

However, not in this case! The judge wants a proper confession not a half hearted one.


PERUVIAN prosecutors have rejected the guilty pleas of a Scottish woman and her co-accused caught trying to smuggle £1.5 million of cocaine to Spain.
Thursday 26/09/2013
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Prosecutor Juan Rosas said that he will ask for a new hearing to give Melissa Reid, 20, of Lenzie in East Dunbartonshire and Michaella McCollum, 20, from Dungannon, Co Tyrone, the chance to offer a more complete confession.

Mr Rosas said that the women have not accepted full responsibility for the charges against them.

The women pleaded guilty to drug trafficking charges behind closed doors in a Lima court on Tuesday night.

They expected to face six years and eight months in prison without possibility of parole when sentenced next week.

Sources said the women had taken full responsibility for the drug trafficking.

But both women, who had been working in Ibiza, previously claimed they were forced to carry drugs by Colombian drug lords who kidnapped them at gunpoint.

Now prosecutor Mr Rosas said they need to explain why they initially claimed they were coerced by a gang of armed men.

He said: "A new statement is required by the women and they will have to admit not only that they came here to traffic drugs but also that they did not tell the truth with respect to them being kidnapped, they have to make a full admission of responsibility for all of the charges brought by the prosecution."


The prosecution maintains that McCollum and Reid made up a story about being kidnapped and threatened into attempt to smuggle the drugs, weighing 24lb, out of Peru on August 6.

Mr Rosas added: "If they continue to maintain this incredible version of events then the prosecution is not going to accept them taking advantage of a quick conclusion of proceedings."

Reid previously said she was planning to plead guilty in a bid to get home as soon as possible.

She is reported to have said: "I am really scared about what I am about to do but I am also relieved that there could be a light at the end of the tunnel.

"After a lot of thought and advice from my lawyer I am going to go in front of the judge and admit I was in possession of the drugs and that I went to Peru to pick up drugs to take to Spain.

"I did it under duress, and I am glad I do not have to say I accepted money to do it."

Their lawyer Meyer Fishman said he could not comment until they were sentenced.

According to Peru's national prisons institute, 90% of the 1,648 foreigners in the country's prisons are either sentenced or awaiting trial for drug trafficking.

[joebloggs]

they must have had many chances to dump the drugs and run, threats about hurting their family i dont believe, have there ever been any case of this happening in the press? .

only them selfs to blame, if it was me i would have dumped the drugs down the toilet and got on the plane back home.

[johncar54]

if it was me i would have dumped the drugs down the toilet and got on the plane back home.[/I]

From your post your are in effect accepting their story that they were coerced. That being so, do you really think you would still have been alive to get on a plane ? Drug syndicates cannot 'allow' people to make fools of them.

If the women were threatened then maybe that is why, they appear, not to be identifying the gang.

[gWaPito]

From your post your are in effect accepting their story that they were coerced. That being so, do you really think you would still have been alive to get on a plane ? Drug syndicates cannot 'allow' people to make fools of them.

If the women were threatened then maybe that is why, they appear, not to be identifying the gang.
This one of the few times I totally agree with you John.

Like I said earlier today, they'd be better off serving their time.

[joebloggs]

From your post your are in effect accepting their story that they were coerced. That being so, do you really think you would still have been alive to get on a plane ? Drug syndicates cannot 'allow' people to make fools of them.

If the women were threatened then maybe that is why, they appear, not to be identifying the gang.

no i dont believe them, dont you think the drug cartels have a better chance of success if the mule is doing it for money rather than threatening someone to do it ? , which is better the carrot or the stick :wink:

so your telling me once they were in the airport with security and CCTV you think they were threatening them, why is there no CCTV of this then ?

from the pics i've seen in the press it looks like they were having a good time :wink:

what if they were doing it for money, if people they met in spain had done it and got away with it, maybe they were told they have little chance of getting caught, and if they did just say they were forced into doing it, but from the press stories i've seen they is no evidence they were forced in to doing it, but then we dont know the whole story or the facts.

[gWaPito]

no i dont believe them, dont you think the drug cartels have a better chance of success if the mule is doing it for money rather than threatening someone to do it ? , which is better the carrot or the stick :wink:

so your telling me once they were in the airport with security and CCTV you think they were threatening them, why is there no CCTV of this then ?

from the pics i've seen in the press it looks like they were having a good time :wink:

what if they were doing it for money, if people they met in spain had done it and got away with it, maybe they were told they have little chance of getting caught, and if they did just say they were forced into doing it, but from the press stories i've seen they is no evidence they were forced in to doing it, but then we dont know the whole story or the facts.

I think you've missed the point Joe. ...of course they were doing it for money. ..what we are saying the tentacles of these drug cartels stretch worldwide. ..you can't escape their justice wherever or whoever you are. ..you are a marked man.

[joebloggs]

well have you ever read in the press about drug mules been forced into doing it ? the only time you do is when their caught, i cant ever recall reading a news story about someone being forced into doing who went to the cops instead, why ?

maybe it doesn't happen or is rare, why would they risk threratening them or their families, when they can move on to the next mule :cwm25:

[gWaPito]

well have you ever read in the press about drug mules been forced into doing it ? the only time you do is when their caught, i cant ever recall reading a news story about someone being forced into doing who went to the cops instead, why ?

maybe it doesn't happen or is rare, why would they risk threratening them or their families, when they can move on to the next mule :cwm25:

You gotta be having laugh, surely.

[SimonH]

Here's a scenario:-

Dealer- want something to make you feel good?
Girl- err no, I don't do that stuff
D- go on everyone does it here
G- Oh ok
D- here have a free sample

Next day

G- got any more
D- sure it's only x amount

Next month

G- I really want some but I'm skint
D- No worries, pay me next week

.....

D- You owe me X how are you going to pay
G- what, that much? I haven't got it
D- well you could sell some to your friends to pay off your debts
G- ok

Girl now becomes the dealer, but samples the goods

Dealer now tells girl that she now owes shed loads but there is a fool proof way of paying your debts and earning a bit for yourself. Hey you even get an all expenses holiday out of it.

[Dedworth]

However, not in this case! The judge wants a proper confession not a half hearted one.




Cattle prod time :cwm25:

[gWaPito]

Cattle prod time :cwm25:

:icon_lol: They're be getting plenty of prod later :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[bigmarco]

I think we're getting into the realms of fantasy a bit. I can't imagine South American drug cartels ordering a hit on a couple of young girls who they were using as drug mules and who got caught.
The girls have absolutely nothing to tell that the authorities don't already know.
We got persuaded by some bloke in Ibiza called Enrique to fly to Peru and pick up some gear for 10 grand. We were told to meet some bloke called Carlos who would sort us out. Carlos put the stuff in our bag and took us back to the airport.
There is no way that these pair of idiots got to meet anybody high level and for that reason they're not worth killing.

[gWaPito]

I think we're getting into the realms of fantasy a bit. I can't imagine South American drug cartels ordering a hit on a couple of young girls who they were using as drug mules and who got caught.
The girls have absolutely nothing to tell that the authorities don't already know.
We got persuaded by some bloke in Ibiza called Enrique to fly to Peru and pick up some gear for 10 grand. We were told to meet some bloke called Carlos who would sort us out. Carlos put the stuff in our bag and took us back to the airport.
There is no way that these pair of idiots got to meet anybody high level and for that reason they're not worth killing.

So why is it the judge wants more info than they've already given?. ...1.5 million is a lot of money to me. ..I sure wouldn't be giving it up that quickly, if it were my money.

They will be setting an example to the other wannabes, if you mess up and dob us in their will be serious consequences.

Anyways :biggrin: let's wait and see what next Tuesday brings :biggrin::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[bigmarco]

Anyways :biggrin: let's wait and see what next Tuesday brings :biggrin::xxgrinning--00xx3:

:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

........................................................ Good news!

:cwm24: ... now you're thinking like Dedworth! :yeahthat:

[gWaPito]

:cwm24: ... now you're thinking like Dedworth! :yeahthat:

Most of us on here, like Ded are good decent law abiding citizens who likes to see justice being done, fair and square. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

LM rightly said, what would of happened if they'd got away with it got to the streets.

I say countless thousands of lives would of been ruined all because of a selfish act of greed.

I don't think for one moment they were addicted themselves. They certainly didn't show any signs...and I'm sure the press wld of picked up on it if they were.

[joebloggs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adACpEk8Ss0

just watched this, none of the ones caught claim to have been forced into doing it, all of them did it for the money :NoNo: